Welcome to /XMR/ Monero General, dedicated to the discussion of the world's most widely adopted privacy coin.OFFICIAL WEBSITE: https://getmonero.orgINFODUMPS:https://rentry.org/monero-explainedhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.orghttps://pastebin.com/raw/wtx1vKueXMR Redpill: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wq6w03E2DS4BUY XMR: https://monero.eco/exchanges/>Infinity Projecthttps://pastebin.com/raw/pbCycXsCCrypto ATMs: https://coinatmradar.com/XMR Resources: https://monero.observer/resources/XMR Stats: https://moneroj.netMINING: https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/mining/https://rentry.org/why_mine_xmrWALLETS:>DesktopOfficial GUI/CLI walletFeatherwalletStack Wallet>MobileCake WalletMonero.com walletStack WalletUnstoppableEdge walletMonerujo (Android only)Monfluo (Android only)SECURE STORAGE: https://rentry.org/store_xmr_securelyBuy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!:https://monerica.com/https://xmrbazaar.com/https://www.reddit.com/r/moneromarket/new/https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/https://kycnot.me/?t=service&xmr=on>gift cardshttps://cakepay.com/https://coincards.com/https://xmr.cards/>Exotic goodshttps://pastebin.com/raw/fF95wTNiSupport development:https://ccs.getmonero.org/donate/https://monerofund.org/https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/https://magicgrants.org/funds/monero/Support organic artistry:https://www.monerochan.art/Previous: >>62678263If you still have questions, feel free to ask. A MoneroChad will be with you shortly.
reporting in
admit it ... trannies won
>>6272085620% of Zcash go to a centralized bureaucracy.Not to mention massive founder bonuses.Monero and bitcoin are the only non-corrupt coins I've seen.> But I need privacy and non-privacyJust use monero and bitcoin.
>>62720889and yet ...
>>62720915>One has an ETF>The other cannot legally be wash traded by hedge funds"Look, my number went up!"Zcash is a shitcoin. Plenty of shitcoins have outperformed XMR. Moodeng, Nietzschean Penguin, Fartcoin, etc. And if I want to trade shitcoins, I do. But shitcoins know what they are and you know what you're going into and when volume dries up you know to bail.Zcash is a shitcoin that's pretending to be real tek (Monero), so there's no telling what'll go on with the price. I'd rather just deal in honest shitcoins that move like ZEC but even faster than hold ZEC long term when there's no legitimate reason for anyone to ever use it.
>>62721047BASEDLets see who's up in 10 years!
god bless motherfucking monerokeynesian jews deserve the rope
>>62720856>admit it ... trannies wonWon what exactly? Nobody actually uses ponZcash as the privacy tool its supposed to be, its a glorified memecoin with a research dept. It lives and dies by how much its wash traded and shilled to ignorant speculators, which are in ever decreasing supply now that the crypto blackpill and AI are luring capital away to pastures greener. Monero survives long term for the simple fact that it's a critical element of shopping in underground digital markets. All other crypto (including ponZcash) isn't comparatively critical to any other sector and therefore survives only for as long as the bamboozled rubes remain convinced they're future millionaires. As usual, the only winners are the scheming whales and exchanges slowly siphoning exit liquidity and fees away from said future millionaires. Some folks just gotta learn the hard way.
550 crab coin
>>62720365oh yeah fresh bread!!!>price upon start: $550
>>62720365This shit is worse than Zcash and Litecoin LMAO
>>62720856imagine even looking at the zec chart. lol, lmao
>Thursday September 24 in the year of our Lord 2026>The 'XMR Redpill: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wq6w03E2DS4 [Embed]' is STILL in the OPWe'd be at 1000+ now if not for that video
>>62720365If you’re a miner and are not using P2Pool to support decentralization, you’re a stinky zogslave
>>62722825>We'd be at 1000+ now if not for that video.Cry more about it, moonfag.
>>62722788Don't buy!
XMR will RETRACE to 1k EOY
>When XMR goes up it’s REAL>When ZEC goes up it’s FAKEcope>>62724364ZEC beat you to it and then some
>>62724625Didnt know it was a racei make more money using xmr than if i had just bought, held and, sold zecdont ask me how
>>62720856Dork weeb marketplaces don't have an option to pay with zcash
>>62724625Don't care, I'll USE XMR
https://x.com/cointelegraph/status/2103155240874791325When will you idiots come to realize that XMR isnt the “only real privacy coin” it’s the “antisocial loser coin”?Here you have the highly respected SEC Commissioner Pierce literally advertising ZEC as a major breakthrough in crypto privacy and compliance. Yes, you heard me right, “compliance”.As in, ZEC doesn’t presume some hyper antisocial intention out of its holders. It doesn’t presume that you want to throw a middle finger around to the entire world and “revolt” through the use of a fucking currency. Report necessary information to the government, maintain compliance, be a fucking regular citizen. Just hide your activity from the general public, competitors, and hackers. Like a NORMAL PERSON.But that’s not enough for the antisocial losers in Monero. Oh yeah being an upstanding citizen is too much for you guys. The world won’t be free until every individual person has a fucking fortress of a house with a million weapons because they’re completely responsible for their own defense absent a government. How many people in the world do you think are actually like that?ZEC is privacy for a practical world. The world that people know and understand and actually want.XMR is privacy for a fallen world, for antisocial losers who think the world is destroyed as they spend all day online while normal people enjoy time with their friends and family.Is it any wonder which one is winning?
>>62725467Privacy is binary. You either have it or you don't. If my transactions are "private" to everyone except anyone with the means to deanonymize a transaction on an unsecure blockchain, it was never private to begin with.
>>62725467>Is it any wonder which one is winning?not at all, xmr wins actual use and real privacyzec wins NGU award. congrats
>>62725698
>>62725708Look at these channels.
>>62725467>a womanZionist Cash is pathetic
>>62725467>Report necessary information to the government, maintain compliance, be a fucking regular citizen. Just hide your activity from the general public, competitors, and hackers. Like a NORMAL PERSON.kek if all ZEC has to offer is le compliant privacy then token still not needed, existing tradfi solutions do that without the litany of pain-in-the-ass blockchain gotchas. Consider how PayPal shields your TXs from literally everybody except the govt, doesn't leak *any* metadata to the internet and provides generous consumer protections, including payment reversals. Good luck competing with that lolConversely, Monero isn't even competing with tradfi because tradi doesn't work for online agorist usecases, hence the growing XMR monopoly on darknet payments.>highly respected SEC Commissioner Pierce literally advertising ZEC No serious privacy advocate will ever endorse ZEC as a credible privacy solution now, getting into bed with regulators is the kiss of death for ANY supposedly cypherpunk technology. Can you envision a PGP variant endorsed by the govt ever gaining serious traction? No, you can't, for obvious fucking reasons.>ZEC is privacy for a practical world. The world that people know and understand and actually want.Tradfi already provides all the compliant "privacy for a practical world" we need. Token not needed.Enjoy the pump while it lasts, without an actual growing userbase to sustain the price long-term everything now hinges on maintaining the wash trading and moonfag shilling momentum. Once that steam runs out, the dump into irrelevancy is inevitable. The ultimate fate of all userless memecoins.
>>62725991You have been told time and again why tokenization of the financial system will and must occur. Why your comparisons to tradfi make absolutely zero sense in that context. And why the driver is the composability of financial assets is the actual concern, not institutional or consumer preferences. This composability allows central banks and the BIS to exert, in their own words, “absolute control” over asset holders.Again. You have been told this several times already. You keep looping and regurgitating that exact same talking points as if you'd never been told. Thought the observers of this thread should know.
Wtf we buying
>>62725597>Privacy is binary. You either have it or you don't.This is only marginally true in the “antisocial loser” sense of the term. Aka you have to be private to EVERYONE in the world.Most people do not need or care about that. They are perfectly happy revealing their financial details to certain companies (custodians etc) and the government. They just don’t want the entire world knowing every transaction they make. That’s a very distinct DEGREE of privacy that happens to capture like ~95% of the world?ZEC offers it. Monero goes way beyond the practical desire for privacy into being unsupportable.
>>62726280what can i buy with zec, that would make me want to 'invest' in it?
>>62726291You can buy anything you like in the above ground economy (~95% of the world). You may have to exchange it first! Just like literally any crypto including stablecoins (at this particular time in the history of financial technology).But I think you’re trying to do a “gotcha” where the real supposed kicker for XMR is that you can purchase drugs on the internet from drug dealers, something ~95% of the world would have zero interest in doing.Why is that super important to you? Oh because you’re an antisocial loser.
>>62726306so i would remove the privacy of using the coin, to swap to traditional non-private currency to finalize the transaction? all while paying 20% fee for the devs to do so?I can buy much more than my monthly drug reup with monero with never swapping back.
>>62726319I don’t think you understand how the dev fund works.But virtually zero cryptos offer true in person payment abilities today. You can probably find some places here and there that support ZEC payments. That will grow with time. Just….its unlikely for it to grow for Monero since it could very likely be banned in the coming years.
>>62726319>muh dev fundgo use Zclassic. everyone voted with their wallets, you just don't like what the outcome was.
>>62726326youre right i dont, and dont have to because ill never buy>That will grow with timekeep waiting>unlikely for it to grow for Monerokeeps growing, the more its banned the more it will be popular
>>62726360>dont like what the outcome was.the outcome that i get an oz of ketamine shipped straight to my house with 0 worries? youre wrong about that, and my stack is worth so much more than last month that its basically free while i continue to dca. sorry nobody wants to use your fed coin, enjoy your gains if you decide to sell
>>62726261>You have been told time and again why tokenization of the financial system will and must occur. >Again. You have been told this several times already. You keep looping and regurgitating that exact same talking points as if you'd never been told.lol that is assertion by repetition, not an argument. Being "told time and again" that tokenization *will* occur provides no evidence that it will while saying it *must* occur simply smuggles the conclusion into the premise. To establish necessity you would have to show what problem existing tradfi infrastructure cannot solve without tokenization, why conventional databases and payment/settlement systems are inadequate, why tokenization solves that problem better and why its additional complexity and trade-offs are unavoidable. Until then, "will and must occur" is technological determinism presented as inevitability rather than demonstrated necessity.In any case, blockchain is typically orders of magnitude less efficient than a well-designed centralized database while providing none of the convenience or consumer protections. Outside of unregulated finance, its a solution in search of a problem. Tech not needed.
>>62726280>They are perfectly happy revealing their financial details to certain companies (custodians etc) and the government. They just don’t want the entire world knowing every transaction they make. That’s a very distinct DEGREE of privacy that happens to capture like ~95% of the world?>ZEC offers it. So does PayPal (and ordinary banking infrastructure) without forcing users to accept public-chain risks and crypto-specific trade-offs. Your transactions are not broadcast for the entire world to inspect yet you still retain account recovery, fraud controls, chargebacks, customer support and all the usual legal recourses. ZEC therefore is not uniquely solving the "I want privacy from the public but not necessarily from institutions or government" problem, existing tradfi solutions already provide that degree of privacy far more directly while avoiding volatility, key-loss/hacking risk, exchange hacks and the paranoidal mindfuck of a burden that is self-custody.TOKEN STILL NOT NEEDED
>>62726306>You can buy anything you like in the above ground economy (~95% of the world). You may have to exchange it first! I can already do all of that with PayPal, a bank transfer or a credit/debit card WITHOUT needing to first convert a volatile speculative asset into the currency the merchant actually accepts. If ZEC has to be exchanged into fiat before I can buy "anything I like" then ZEC itself is not functioning as the medium of exchange, its just an extra conversion step between me and the payment system that actually completes the purchase.And you seriously expect people will happily jump through all those UNNECESSARY extra hoops out of pure masochism?
>>62726280>Most people do not need or care about thatThey feel the same about Zionist Cash
>>62726326>likely be bannedall for the better
>unlikely for it to grow for Monero since it could very likely be banned in the coming years.Being banned is the ultimate seal of approval for serious privacy tech and results in an epic Streisand effect. While being tolerated or, even worse, endorsed by the govt = negative street cred and an instant kiss of death for any such tech.Z-trannies sold out to the Establishment and now have to parade Barry Silbert and the Winklevii around as validators because the people who actually live, eat and breathe the privacy ethos have little reason to touch it. When your supposed "privacy coin"can only manage to find approval from venture capitalists, seedy exchange moguls and institutional crypto insiders because it commands zero fucking credibility among serious privacy enthusiasts, you're on borrowed time. Enjoy the rollercoaster ride.
>>62725467>complianceYup, zogged.
We love XMR
>>62727639
>>62726826>zogged
>>62727800Lol no way it's actually Israeli. I thought people were joking by calling it Zioncash.
>>62727803Zionist Cash is the full name of the project. Not a meme, just a good reason to avoid it!
P2pool main pays the same as mini, only less frequently?
You guys legitimately sound like a full blown cult. You should seriously ask yourselves what you are worshipping in this cult. At least in ZEC they worship the golden calf, money for the sake of power and influence. The legitimate forms of power in the capitalist system. What do you worship? Drugs? The ability for ~2% of people to purchase LSD without anyone knowing? Honestly, who gives a fuck about that and why?If you are reading this thread expecting some Monero moon, LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO SHARE THIS THREAD WITH YOU>>62726386>being banned makes it popularNo it doesn’t >>62726389>buying ketamine is what mattersThat doesn’t mean anything for anyone except for disgusting druggies like you >>62726434>To establish necessity you would have to show what problem existing tradfi infrastructure cannot solve without tokenizationIt’s in the very post you quoted you fucking retard. Look up the word “composability” or shut the fuck up. This community is filled with bots who regurgitate the same shit from 2021.>>62726459>>62726490How many years have you been doing this to no avail? Just repeating the same stuff over and over and over and over and over again. If you can’t understand what technical composability is permitted by stablecoins that isn’t possible with PayPal you are STUPID. How can PayPal place geographic, temporal, or content based restrictions on access to the financial system? Crypto can. You legitimately do not even understand the first principles of the technology you’ve been promoting for years of your life. You have no idea the actual purpose of crypto from the perspective of the BIS. You are a MIDWIT. People reading this thread, you are AMONG MIDWITS.>>62726510>being banned is goodDid this before….Post is too long so I’ll split in two
>>62726625>an epic Streisand effectIt’s so fucking pathetic looking at this supposed “cypherpunk true crypto” community say the dumbest shit like this. Have you been on the internet in the last 15 years? What fucking Streisand effect? You’ve literally watched the internet coalesce into like 3 social media platforms, 2 AI platforms, the dead internet theory get conclusively proven, and you want to talk about the fucking STREISAND EFFECT? Go ahead and link me the Wikipedia page so you can pretend to “know something” and teach me about the topic. Let’s pretend it’s 2010 and you have some sekret knowledge of memetic propagation. You’re stuck FIFTEEN YEARS IN THE PAST and this is supposed to be the best crypto community? No wonder it all descended into scams.>>62726826>teee hee hee I said ZOG that means I win>>62727803>>62727956>Zion Cash is the name of the projectYou don’t actually think this do you? Did you even spend one minute looking into your hated competitor? It’s “zero cash” as in zero knowledge proof.
>>62728394>zero cashAs in, can't spend it anywhere because it isn't equivalent to cash? The world doesn't need more HODL tokens
>>62728385>>62728394kek poor Mav is finally starting to crack under all the pressure. Needs more impotent rage and defeatist seething to qualify for the MavPasta repository however, we do have standards around here. Just a reminder of what you're capable of when sufficiently triggered by our counter-economic ethos and memes:---------I’m fucking tired of this. Tired of losing money. Tired of the lack of urgency of anyone here. Tired of people resisting simple things like marketing the coin. Tired of people saying that financial gain is irrelevant. Tired of people accusing others of being moonboys. Tired of libertarians and agorists being the voice of the coin.Tired of being a niche currency when it has incredible potential. Tired of watching scams like ZEC make its holders richer. Tired of these threads barely staying alive for months because someone posts “I’m Satoshi” every other day. Tired of the attacks, whether selfish mining or the threat of bugs or FUD or destroying exchange/swap liquidity.Tired of waiting for FCMP. Tired of pretending like it will matter significantly. Tired of acting like I think this will ever go mainstream. Tired of being controlled by the wake of BTC price movements. Tired of waiting for fucking Russian or Chinese dark markets to discover XMR and stop being retarded with stablecoins. Tired of the bots, especially ZEC ones. Tired of being tied to the development activities of like barely 10 people and essentially betting on their talent and success. Tired of many XMR people regularly talking about “other privacy coins” on their shows. Tired of having to continually push my time horizon even further into the future for when this project actually achieves real growth and value for my time.I’m tired of being tired.---------Chef's kiss!
>>62728512But I am Satoshi Nakamoto
>>62728512XMR is doing great. You're just impatient. There will always be pump N Dumps, and meme/shit coins that will temporarily outvalue us.As these meaningless coins die, some of their value will fly to real coins or be lost.XMR to 5k won't be long
>>62728512>counter-economic ethosYou’re a fucking federal agent trying to destroy this coin from the inside.
>>62728698>You’re a fucking federal agent trying to destroy this coin from the inside.Is it that obvious? Oh fudge, my cover's blown now, I guess.But I am getting a legitimate kick out of how much our agorist memes trigger you, gotta love an autistic lolcow.
I'm Satoshi
>>62728869You’re the fucking lolcow.You’re sitting here everyday policing any excitement over the most important asset of the 21st century to make sure it never gets any bigger than a fucking online drug marketplace. You DESERVE to lose to the Jews
>>62728394>autistic kvetchingoy vey
550 crabcoin
>>62729093>the most important asset of the 21st century>make sure it never gets any bigger than a fucking online drug marketplace.Sooooooooooo, lemme get this straight: XMR is "the most important asset of the 21st century" yet all it evidently takes to cripple its glorious ascent is a few dank agorist memes posted on a half-dead Mongolian basket-weaving forum. Do I have that correct?
>>62726264>monero isnt top 3 on watch kek
>>62729155My taxes just go to>a few dank agorist memes posted on a half-dead Mongolian basket-weaving forum. and that's why I need Monero
>>62729155Sounds like you’re admitting to counter signaling Monero?
>federal agent trying to destroy this coin from the inside. Imaging thinking some guy stating his opinion on a dead general on a dead 4chan board is single handedly changing every users investment strategy
>>62729581Imagine criticizing community members for holding the coin we’re talking about.He has been here for years doing the exact same schtick without taking so much as a day off. I would not be surprised if he’s on other platforms doing the same thing to Monero. It is clearly his job to counteract any culture of holding.
>>62730097The reddit page for Monero says it has 18k daily visitors(bots mostly) and it's almost as dead as this this general.I only browse it once a month or so because the devs actually post on there.You dont see this agorist talk at all. Maybe if this dude is spamming all over but who listens to any crypto talk on Twitter?I think you're wayy too hung up on this small minoritys idea of how to use this coin. Maybe you're arguing to bump the thread idk
>>62730133It's kind of weird how dead /r/Monero is. It used to be very active. I'd have expected the recent price action to bring some people back as well.
>>62730133>>62730202>other communities are deadSounds like he did his job huh?
>>62730202>It's kind of weird how dead /r/Monero is. It used to be very activeHello newfriend. The community talks die between highly anticipated upgrades. Expect nothing of note to happen until FCMP is finished
>>62730202All of reddit is dead at this point, the comment sections is bots "um actually"ing each other. It's insufferable
>>62730229Haven't really checked the reddit since 2017 or so. It didn't slow down back then.
545 crab coin
I'm getting my AI assistants to tackle bugs in Android Cake Wallet. Anything you guys want fixed?
>>62730626My life
>>62730222>Sounds like he did his job huh?Checked! :D
>>62729581>1pbtid>Immediately defends a fudder
So kraken was supposed to implement withdrawal/deposit limits for XMR but did it ever go into effect...? whats the deal..? anyone know?
>>62732807if they have then I haven't noticed, been using the same kraken account for like 5 years now.
Is XMR’s price increase in the past year an effect of ZEC’s pump because news outlets and people label both as privacy coins?
>>62732971Probably a mix of that and people trying to time the thorchain integration.Nobody uses XMR except a few druggies. Even the *North Korean* bitget hackers haven’t used Monero. They were on Discord asking people how to launder it kek
>>62732971No, ZionCash's big selling point is compliance while also being less of a card house than BTC.
>>62733285Retards like this guy have no idea how markets work. Nobody buying into CYPH or the ETF gave one shit about privacy let alone compliance.They bought into the fact that the Winklevoss twins had a clear plan to hoard a lot of coins, cozy up to Trump to the point they were right next to him at the podium for the crypto press conference, and create several investment vehicles to allow tons of liquidity into the coin.Yes, the word “privacy” became part of the conversation as a result, because retarded retail needs a “reason” that the price went up, other than the obvious reason that rich people positioned themselves. Just like bitcoin they have a manufactured narrative that YOU are repeating here now. Monero tangentially benefited from it and is barely able to make a local high as a result. Congrats retards.
>>62733237>They were on Discord asking people how to launder it kekThis is mega retarded but it is honestly based that knowledge on how to use Monero is spreading, even if it's through awful means like discord.
>>62733365Typical Monero user reading comprehension
Mining zcash to inflate their value and swap the rewards to xmr to bump the monero price?
Possible to use nicehash for it and leverage short zcash once you sell the mined coins?
Kek wait...Mine xmr - buy hash rate on nicehash - mine zcash - open leveraged short on zcash - sell mined zcash - buy xmr - repeat Lmao could this work?
They can't do the same as xmr is delisted everywhere lol
>>62733467Go for it
>>62733475I'm broke :(
I just don't want to see zcash posts here anymore and it's easier to destroy them than to use the filter option
>>62732807>>62732955i think its for newer users? like how kraken on an early account does the 5-7 day withdraw hold(like cuckbase) but after a while i withdraw immediately after depositing and buying. I saw them confirm on socials that it was going to happen.they also 27x the withdraw fee last month
New logo
>>62733320>Uhm the billionaires suddenly cared about zioncash for no reason>It has nothing to do with it being cucked from the get-go>>62733766>Fudders got so desperate, they started calling the letter M satanicOne of the all-time greats.
>>62733766yeah I messaged krakensupport on twitter and they acted like they didn't even know anything about it and said if there was gonna be any changes i'd be emailed ahead of time, so maybe it is for new sign ups or something... not sure...
>>62735381>for no reasonI explained the reason. Did you even read the post?
>>62735871No, you got it backwards. You assume zcash was there like a natural resource which they turned into a commodity. However, it already was present as a financial instrument and was simply chosen to have kosher privacy and anonymity. Even if we followed your logic there'd be no reason for them to pick zcash over xmr besides compliance.
>>62736420You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. I’m starting to think the problem isnt reading comprehension you’re just straight up stupid. You’re a fucking retard. Nothing else to say. Read my post 5 more times? Until you might get it?
Is there any day to mine XMR profitably without being gifted/stealing a Ryzen 5 CPU?It seems that everywhere I look online, the profitability vs hardware costs just don't make any sense unless you live somewhere with electricity costs under $0.07 USD/kwh.Anywhere else, it takes ~ 3yrs just to break even on the hardware investment.
>>62736775The CPU cost normally isn't the bottleneck, but the electricity cost. If you plan to mine XMR a lot it'd be best to first invest in some power generation.
Monero Chan is like Zcat except for Monero. Get paid for holding it. The protocol has already given away over 1K XMR. it's on stonkfun. Some big names are holding the token.
>>62736948Buying a solar setup to generate "free" electricity doesn't actually affect the break-even point that much:The cost for a 140watt microATX rig with a 16Core Ryzen 7950X and only 8GB RAM is about ~$600-$650 USD. That rig would only get ~17KH/s which nets about ~$17USD worth of XMR per month. Meaning that even if you assume totally free electricity it would still take ~3.1 years just to break even on the initial hardware investment. I know that the RAM costs right now are a driving factor in this, cuz 8gb ram shouldn't cost $100+ but that's just the reality right now.
Crab coin
>>62737760Real trick is just to stuff that miner somewhere at work where nobody will touch it.Really helps if you work in a corporate office area
Newest zachxbt post on his telegram below. Is this whole thing a scam to make zcash seem like it’s used by hackers?———“The alleged DPRK attackers have just begun shielding ~2.7K ZEC ($3.8M) total from the Bitget exploit into the Ironwood pool. ~18.9K ZEC ($28.3M) total was stolen from the Bitget hot wallet on September 24, 2026. One of the arguments used by competing privacy projects was threat actors do not use ZEC thus XYZ is better.”
>>62740679zcash glows, simple as. No more evidence needed.>>62740451Okay, that solves the electricity cost problem but as I said it's still ~3 years before it breaks even on the initial hardware cost.
>>62740618It's crabbing, what's your point?
>>62740679>Is this whole thing a scam to make zcash seem like it’s used by hackers?If they don't swap Zionist Cash for XMR, then it's 1000% a psyop
>>62740679Anyone notice how they constantly argued against XMR because it's used by le hackers but when zcash is used it's suddenly a sign of how good and based it is
>>62740399I am happy to see you still posting this, anon. Godspeed.
>>62740679If the asset you stole is already ZEC I don't see how shielding it is an endorsement of ZEC being superior for exploits generally. It'd be like saying ETH is better than XMR because after someone stole a bunch of ETH they used railgun before doing whatever other laundering. When the BTC from the exploit starts getting sold for ZEC I'll consider it.
>>62743086$530-560 stable coin
So uh NEAR intents just got hacked for $3.8M. The same amount that the hackers shielded in ZEC yesterday….
>Peach is a collection of market data analysis tools, with deeper XMR market data than anyone else (free to use). Charts for Bisq, Retoswap and Basicswap have been added with a multitude of exclusive Monero features such as deposit-/withdraw checkers, charts for: \[any asset\]/XMR (or reverse), XMR/XMR, arbitrage indicators (spreads), over 120 indicators, etc. All tools available in the Telegram bot will be integrated into web over time. >https://peach.quest/charts
>>62733766Monero (M for mason) was taken from Esperanto monero being an universal currency. Esperanto it self is antiwhite loxism. Fat Ricardo did not know that probably and still does not. It will confuse some low level masons tho
>>62743086Coin. Crab. Walking. Like a crab. Horizontally. Walking. Like a crab. Coin. Crab coin.
i love monero-chan so much it's unreal
>>62736775> mine XMR profitably> EXPECTING LE PROFITS FROM MOINERO MININGMOOONFAQQ DETECTED. MONERO MINING SHOULD BE LIKE FLUSHING YOUR TOTILET
>>62750095If there is no mining incentive, then you have no miners, if you have no miners, you have low hash rate, if you have low hash rate, it is trivial for someone to temporarily rent Hashrash to fuck with the network and re-order blocks (e.g. Pubic).A truly malicious actor with deep pockets could cripple the entire network permanently by spending ~0.3 billion $. We need more miners.
>>62750095It's been months, where have you been moonfag?
>>62750248This is accurate.
>>62720365>BUY XMR: >https://monero.eco/exchanges/Just FYI this link is broken. So how do you guys actually buy your XMR? Is there a no-KYC market where I could use Visa giftcards to buy BTC and then use Bisq to swap to XMR?
>>62740679so if everyone is to play by their own rules, either the ZEC devs are supposed to reveal the identity of the hackers and reverse the transaction (because the privacy is optional and not for criminal purposes), or ZEC gets delisted from every single exchange for doing exactly what XMR got delisted for. if neither of these things happen, then it's a glow op
>>62750248Monero is probably unique in there being a lot of intrinsic motivators for miners. Many miners mine simply to keep XMR running.
Monero is bullshit, its ASIC resistance massively caps hashrate and gives it an abysmal security budget.
Checking in after a few months, anything good?
>>62751215Crabbing is neutral
>>62751248Crabbing higher than a few months ago though.
>>62750790I agree that there is intrinsic value in normal people (non-ASIC devices) being able to convert electricity into untraceable digital cash, even if it's at a 1:1 ratio (or even a slight loss).However that still isn't really enough of an incentive to keep the network secure.Right now the total combined hashrate is still low enough that one single large datacentre could cripple the network if it were set on that task for even just a few hours. That means any government, large company, foundation, or even a single wealthy individual could devastate the Monero network.
>>62751254Giga-pump will be GLORIOUS
>>62751306Agreed
>>62750481Use retoswap.com over bisq, I believe they have prepaid visa offers.Also Trocador.app for crypto-crypto swaps
>>62750790>>62751277The problem is that the solution to this is to increase mining rewards (tail emission rate was arbitrarily set, remember) and every time I've seen a guy get a real spot o suggest that the community thoroughly rejects it as either being "moonboy"-ism, or "trying to force price action reactively to Zcash" recently, etc.
>>62752689Wouldn't increasing the mining reward actually suppress price long term because it would mean more monero entering circulation?
>>62752695There's a goldilocks zone for mining rewards. XMR approaches 0 asymptotically, yes.The last debate over it I watched was that having too *low* an inflation rate poses the same downward pressure. The speaker used gold as an example of something with a low inflation rate that still has historically held value well even against inflationary episodes. It has an annual inflation rate between 1-3% compared to XMR's current 0.8% inflation rate.When people are encouraged to mine at a profit, they are more likely to hold onto their extra mining rewards vs creating constant sell pressure with each new XMR mined because they aren't adequately being compensated to maintain the network when mining is at a loss.
CRAB
Is it even possible to be in the negative as an XMR holder? (excluding the last month's buyers, and Satoru Gojo, of course)
>>62753035if you hold for more than a year, usually youre in the green>>62752648 >>62750481like other anon said, retoswap and trocador are preferred >>62752689were in too deep to change block reward now without some serious disruption. the only way to increase mining incentive is to make the price go up, without being a moonboi
>>62753035What's Gojo got to do with this
>>62753056>were in too deep to change block reward now without some serious disruptionThat doesn't bode well for monero if it's already so ossified.
>>62753056NGU solves most problems
>>62753118>That doesn't bode well for monero if it's already so ossified.Monero's tokenomics is certainly ossified. No way you can expect block times/block rewards/emission schedule/etc to change from now on.But Monero's privacy tech isn't ossified. We are still gunning for FCMP++ and then Post-Quantum Cryptography upgrades.
>>62754441When giga pump?
>>62752689>>62752716Relevant videohttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bCTzGq3inPITL;DW we should probably move towards an algorithmic percentage inflation per year for block rewards to align with the original intent of tail emissions (keep it a bit lower than gold)
>>62751277>Right now the total combined hashrate is still low enough that one single large datacentre could cripple the network if it were set on that task for even just a few hours.Weird, Qubic tried exactly that with server-grade hardware and somehow didn't achieve it. >>62752689No, the real solution is to reduce TCO for a mining setup. This is best done by people understanding that they rarely need new hardware to mine and those that do can't afford new hardware anyway. >>62753118Constantly changing tokenomics is not helpful. What you want is stability so you can plan around it.
>>62755752>and somehow didn't achieve it.Completely wrong.Qubic did achieve a block re-org, their goal wasn't to cripple XMR it was to prove that they could achieve enough hashrate to control the network; which they did.If they had wanted to cripple it they could have filled every block they published with gigabytes of spam transactions, but they chose not to do that. They could have double-spent XMR and caused the chain to hard-fork; they chose not to do that.Instead of doing really malicious things they just selfish-mined for awhile and then stopped. If anything that is proof that XMR is extremely vulnerable. If a ragtag group of publically-known retards like Qubic can rent enough capacity to do 18 block re-orgs on a whim... Then an anonymous group with more funding and a more focused goal could do serious damage.
>>62755752You're fighting the next decade of industry-wide price inflation if you try to reduce mining costs instead of increasing mining payout.
>>62755752>Constantly changingMonero has changed everything else about itself multiple times. I don't get why the line in the sand is being drawn around tail emissions. >What you want is stability so you can plan around itIt isn't any more difficult to plan around a constant 1% inflation than it is a constant 0.6 XMR/block inflation
>>62755776>Completely wrong.Can you show me the 51% hash rate they had? >Qubic did achieve a block re-org,Which has been fixed. >their goal wasn't to cripple XMR it was to prove that they could achieve enough hashrate to control the network; which they did.And conveniently they made money off it and based their entire marketing campaign both for their shitcoin and their AI around this. They were so honest that they didn't even correctly report their hash rate. >If a ragtag group of publically-known retardsWith lots of server-grade hardware, running for months, costing a few millions per attack. >>62755871>Let's devalue our currency because some retards think word-slot-machines can thinkThe only way to have proper mining rewards is ngu. The problem is that all proposed ways for us to have a massive uptick in interest is by selling out. In fact, if we started increasing the miner reward now because of 'profitability' (which will just lead us to be coupled even more to the fiat system) any whale could get compromised, XMR to fiat plummet and suddenly we need to increase the reward even more. If electricity or hardware prices rise then we also need to increase the mining reward again. So in the end it'll just be all miners, no transactors.Which once again leads us to the realization that the motivation for mining must first and foremost be intrinsic. We must mine because we want Monero to exist. >>62755917>Monero has changed everything else about itself multiple times. Not really>I don't get why the line in the sand is being drawn around tail emissions.Because your logic is idiotic. You argue that change for the sake of change is acceptable. I'd rather be in zcash than some flimsy currency that might or might not be non-private tomorrow. >It isn't any more difficult to plan around a constant 1% inflation than it is a constant 0.6 XMR/block inflationAnything constant isn't hard to consider when planning.
>>62756124>Which once again leads us to the realization that the motivation for mining must first and foremost be intrinsic. We must mine because we want Monero to exist.Monero cannot survive a state actor if it cannot fund its own network security, regardelss of ideals.
>>62756135Then propose a solution that won't make us dependent on hardware prices, electricity prices, mining rewards of other crypto currencies, won't destroy anyone transacting, doesn't require a massive change in tokenomics and is fair both to current and future users of XMR. I'm sure you just got the break through we need for this theoretical attack that hasn't been performed despite multiple nation states already trying to outlaw us and the totally real and grassroots attack by qubic.
>>62756165I've been into XMR (counting lost wallets rip) since 2016, the fairness to old holders is being old holders. Adjusting tail emissions to a gold-like 1% rate isn't fucking up the tokenomics. The tail emission rate was arbitrarily chosen, you're asking me to refute an arbitrary decision with a rational one, and when I do, you say it's arbitrary.
>>62756124>Not reallyYes really. From the block times to ring size increases to new features.>You argue that change for the sake of change is acceptableNo. The argument (afaik) is to make inflation a fixed percentage instead of a fixed number so it inflates at roughly the same rate as gold. It'll still be fixed.
>>62756124>Can you show me the 51% hash rate they had? Bro, I don't know whether you're just trolling or retarded, but regardless of what percentage they actually held they were able to reorganize 18 blocks in a row.If they had actually wanted to fuck with Monero, they could have taken advantage of the fact that there was basically no block size limit and just spammed absolute garbage onto the chain, forcing everybody to deal with tens of gigabytes of bandwidth and taking down every single node on the network.>With lots of server-grade hardware, running for months, costing a few millions per attack.That's literally been my point the entire time; it only costs a few million dollars to cripple monero in its current state.I don't know if you're just being disingenuous on pupose or you actually are not reading anything that I'm posting.>A few million dollars.I can't believe you're saying this like it's actually a legitimate defense against the security of the network. A few million dollars is absolute pocket change to any state-level actor or even a large corporation (especially the ones that already own their own datacentres -- for whom it is essentially "free").Let me make something clear. I'm absolutely not saying any of this in order to fud XMR. I love XMR. I want it to survive long term but pretending like the current mining hashrate is actually enough of a defense is just delusional.
Don't worry, rogue AI botnet swarms will keep the mining balanced
So... Why did Zcash end up beating XMR?
>>62756534Hedge funds can't legally pump XMR
>>62756537Why can they legally do that with Zcash. I'm not being confrontational I'm asking in earnest here.
>>62756545Zcash has, since its foundation, explicitly negotiated with regulators in washington DC to remain a legal option in the cryptocurrency space. Part of their 20% dev tax was ostensibly just for funding lobbying efforts for the past 8 years.XMR has been state-antagonistic from the jump and never promised it could put in safeguards to de-anonymize criminals the way ZEC's founders stated the would for Zcash.
>>62756550>For the past eight yearsSorry, I meant for eight years", they reorganized their dev tax 2 or 3 years ago to still be 20% but to now be a 12% dev tax and a 8% community fund (which the devs control allocations for)
>>62756534>So... Why did Zcash end up beating XMR?how is ZEC beating XMR? lol literally nobody uses ZEC
>>62756534>So... Why did Zcash end up beating XMR?By which metric? As a privacy coin it continues to be a failure, shunned completely by its target demographic with no realistic prospects of ever actually being used.As a memecoin? Sure, but then again countless other memecoins have "beaten" XMR.
>>62756297>Bro, I don't know whether you're just trolling or retarded, but regardless of what percentage they actually held they were able to reorganize 18 blocks in a row.And we already have short-term, medium-term and long-term solutions. They were already worked on before qubic was around. They did nothing to help. >That's literally been my point the entire time; it only costs a few million dollars to cripple monero in its current state.See above. >>62756297>I can't believe you're saying this like it's actually a legitimate defense against the security of the network. A few million dollars is absolute pocket change to any state-level actor or even a large corporation (especially the ones that already own their own datacentres -- for whom it is essentially "free").Because the best solution guys like you have is to just ngu or completely fuck up the current use cases. >>62756545Maybe some marketplace restrictions? There's no laws explicitly forbidding hedge funds to hold XMR. >>62757043>>62757243But anons, zioncash mooned and made goldberg and rosenstein gorillions and we simply pumped 2x in the last few months :(
>>62758785>we simply pumped 2xWoe is XMR
I mine for fun and to support the network. It doesn't hurt that I don't currently pay for electricity.
>>62760311>unprofitable mining doesnt support monero networkAre you retarded? So if the network is at 6Gh/s and i can add 2Gh/s but im not profitable in doing so, like losing $100 a year im somehow not supporting the network? Even if some miners are pushed out because mining got harder for the same reward the hashrate will always be higher than the original 6ghz since your new selection of miners have a lower cost to mine or are also willing to accept more loss than the ones that left.
>>62760366Its clearly an example to demonstrate a point. I think you can figure it out.
>>62760371How couldn't you figure out the point of the example? If people want to mine monero at a loss that still increases network security. The hashrate of the monero network does not care what your electricity bill is.>until you can add 2 Gh/s it is just some imaginary scenarioBUT I DID HAVE BREAKFAST THIS MORNING
>>62760369>>62760366>>62760390>>So if the network is at 6Gh/s and i can add 2Gh/s but im not profitable in doing so, like losing $100 a year im somehow not supporting the networkThis hypothetical makes no sense.As the other guys already said, why would someone with 2GH/s of hashrate ever be content to mine monero at a loss? Don't you think that individual would simply turn his rigs offline or mine other more-profitable coins?Why stop at 2GH/s in this hypothetical.Why not say>So if the network is at 6Gh/s and i can add 500Gh/s but im not profitable in doing so, like losing $10000000 a year im somehow not supporting the networkit doesn't make sense man.Obviously any mining rig that is enabled and actively solving hashes is "supporting the network" insofar as the definition of support is constrained to>raising the hashrateBut I'd argue that those people who have no financial incentive to ___continue___ providing the hashrate are not strengthening the long term network; only the current one. There simply are not enough altruistic people in the world who are willing to eat a financial loss for their moral values; if the monero network relies on this behavior then it's really no better than relying on thoughts and prayers.
>>62761112>This hypothetical makes no sense.breakfast>why would someone with 2GH/s of hashrate ever be content to mine monero at a lossThe example already entails the person wants to mine monero even if it's at a loss. The question isn't how do we incentivize people to mine monero, the answer to which is block rewards.>Why stop at 2GH/s in this hypotheticalit can be any number>Obviously any mining rig that is enabled and actively solving hashes is "supporting the network" insofar as the definition of support is constrained toIt's supporting the network insofar as it is adding hashrate to the network which is supporting the network> But I'd argue that those people who have no financial incentive to ___continue___ providing the hashrate are not strengthening the long term network; only the current one.By definition there wouldn't be a financial incentive for someone who is mining at a loss to continue mining to support the network. But if they want to continue to mine for whatever other reason, they are still supporting the network. >There simply are not enough altruistic people in the world who are willing to eat a financial loss for their moral values; if the monero network relies on this behavior then it's really no better than relying on thoughts and prayers.When have I ever said we should move to an altruistic-only 0XMR block reward? I think you're imposing some argument you heard from someone else onto me. I'm just happy when people mine monero even if it's at a loss, and people who get mad about it like >>62760311 are just stupid.
>>62761283>>This hypothetical makes no sense.>breakfastBtw, repeatedly misusing the "did you have breakfast this morning" analogy doesn't make you win an argument.
>>62761301>Btw, repeatedly misusing the "did you have breakfast this morning" analogy doesn't make you win an argument.It's not meant to win an argument, it's to poke fun at people who can't understand hypotheticals. The rest of my argument in that post is supposed to do that
>>62761314>how would you feel if you ate a Ford-class nuclear powered aircraft carrier for breakfast?
>>62761112>There simply are not enough altruistic people in the world who are willing to eat a financial loss for their moral valuesSure there are, as long as the financial loss is an acceptable one. Giving to charity is also a "financial loss" yet people do it all the time.With regards to computing, people have been donating CPU/GPU cycles to worthy causes for literally decades now. >Volunteer computing projects are a type of distributed computing where volunteers donate computing time to specific causes. The donated computing power comes from idle CPUs and GPUs in personal computers, video game consoles,[1] and Android devices. Each project seeks to utilize the computing power of many internet-connected devices to solve problems and perform large-scale computational research in a cost-effective manner.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volunteer_computing_projectsPersonally, I don't mind paying $10-$20 extra on my power bill each month if it helps boost network security that much more.
>>62761916Most volunteer computer projects do not have hostile entities to worry about. Nobody can kill Folding @ Home by becoming the dominant hash pool the way they can kill Monero.
>>62760318Were it not for the privacy of this coin I would block your transactions.
Nobody here is talking about the most relevant information of the time.OpenAI just published like 1,000 papers on foundational research in mathematics. One area conspicuously absent from it was cryptography, likely because any breakthrough in that field (i.e. cracking it to destroy various systems) would be catastrophic. So the government probably stepped in and prevented them from publishing anything related to cryptography.So Monero and all other cryptocurrencies are very likely in a place where they only maintain any value today because the government has an interest in protecting the apparent-security of many economically and defense-relevant technologies. As soon as they decide that publication of these papers is allowable, the crypto industry is dead.Oh and by the way the testnet for FCMP revealed an inflation bug possibility, so development is currently focused on fixing that.
>>62763891We will likely see a massive focus shift to "ai-proof-cryptography" over the next few weeks/months
>>62764266>ai-proof-cryptography>ai-proof-any-type-of-mathematicsGood luck with that.
>>62764496>retards who think AI will invent a new form of CalculusGive specific examples with links to source code or gtfo. Go ask Claude or Gemini or Deepseek whatever the fuck. Monero is perfectly capable of implementing a fork as needed for security
>>62765953Matthew Green, professor at Johns Hopkins and a leading expert on cryptography tweeted just TODAY:“I think we might lose public key cryptography.”You’re not keeping pace with the rate of change and how concerned it’s making leading researchers. No “new calculus” is needed, just superhuman intelligence breaking cryptographic systems that relied on mathematical problems that WE (humans) thought were sufficiently hard. But now they are not.The only saving grace is that cryptography itself is so important to other systems that the government may not allow OpenAI/Anthropic to publish what they know about it. So ironically, the only thing propping up your anti-establishment revolutionary coin is the United States government.Given that we normal people, including the Monero Research Lab, will almost certainly never have access to the truly top secret most advanced models, we can extrapolate that any cryptographic system of the future will only persist at the discretion of those who possess the best AI.If they want to break Monero, they’ll be able to. Almost instantly.
>>62766355>reddit spacing First and foremost, You have to go back. Was this written by an LLM? Tell your faggot overlord to point at the specific vulnerable source code.
>>62764266>ai-proof-cryptographyjust insert raicial slurs every 4 or 5 lines so you end up violating OpenAI's ToS for trying
>>62766372You’re a fucking ignorant retard. Nice work
Fully exiting XMR.CPU mining is a weak security model. A single mining pool already pushed serious hashrate at the chain. A nation-state does not need a new idea, just more machines. The cost of a majority attack is hardware you can rent, not a factory you have to build.No crypto agility. The protocol cannot swap out its cryptography without a slow, contentious hard fork. Quantum is not the only threat that requires that. If the math breaks, there is no clean upgrade path, and the old chain stays readable.No liquidity. You can barely buy or sell it. Institutions will not touch a coin they cannot custody, list, or exit. No new money, no bid. Privacy without a market is just a bag you cannot leave.
>>62766588Thanks Gemini.
Are they stupid?
>>62764496I didn't say it would work, just that the focus of all mathematics research in society (not just monero) will shift away from "muh quantum" and the new narrative will be "ai proof"
>>62766588here is anon fully exiting last night
>>62756545Zcash walks so Monero can run
>>62760311>sticky mining activity is only possible via profits, So why would miners stick around if another coin has better profits?>long term planning around power production/consumptionAre you asking us to regulate the power prices? I think that's a bit outside the scope of this project>building the machines that will work 24/7What horrible pc did you build that doesn't work 24/7?>>62760318You don't even know what they are called. gtfo with your retarded, month-old fud. >>62761112>But I'd argue that those people who have no financial incentive to ___continue___ providing the hashrate are not strengthening the long term network; only the current one.See my first response in this post>There simply are not enough altruistic people in the world who are willing to eat a financial loss for their moral values; if the monero network relies on this behavior then it's really no better than relying on thoughts and prayers.It's almost like there is more than the exact monetary value (measured in USD of course) to any good, currency or service. >>62763891>We found no exploits, so it's unsafe>Also an exploit was found and is getting worked on, so it's unsafeThe kvetching of the same two or three fudders is absurd. >>62767564How will we ever financially recover from this whale leaving us?
>>62768016>no exploitsYou don’t even know what the fuck you’re talking about. AI is really proving that Monero isn’t full of a bunch of forward thinking schizos. It’s full of people who got hooked on a specific idea and can’t adapt.
>>62768349>We totally have found exploits goyIf only there was something responsible disclosure or even the concept of proof.
Kinda new to crypto; how cucked am if if I'm in the UK?
>>62768536>buy xmr>trade for whatever crypto you wantusing this method, not cucked at all in any jurisdiction
>>62768536Cucked in getting XMR or just how cucked the modern financial system is?
>>62768553Cucked in getting XMR. I am an idiot
>>62768558trocador.app(browser) for easy crypto-crypto swaps to xmrretoswap.com client(download) for fiat-xmr purchases
>>62768575Thank you anon; have some major for being a major help
>>62766355>A jew said...>Tweeted...>CredentialismWEW LAD>>>/plebbit/
>>62768677>I know more than leading mathematicians because I said jew.K.
>>62768524Are you not aware of the recent release of papers?
Imagine thinking that having a PERMANENT POSSIBILITY that an AI lab could publish a paper undermining modern elliptic curve cryptography isn’t going to have a fundamental effect on your Monero price. Being in Monero or any crypto at this point is essentially being short on AI. By holding this coin you are basically saying “I predict AI won’t break cryptography”. Yet thousands of people just saw OpenAI publish hundreds of papers that have shaken the foundation of mathematics. There is a website going around where hundreds of professors are sharing their thoughts on the release (I even bet some of them aren’t Jewish!). It’s sad to read. Like that expert guy who was the first person to lose to AI in chess or whatever it was. Feeling of hopelessness and depression at no longer being the most advanced player in a particular field.Do you really feel safe as the AI juggernaut keeps getting better every week? You REALLY think your cryptography is too hard for superhuman intelligence to solve? Good luck I guess.
>>62769103>>62769107>>62769130God I hate you
Why do criminals prefer to steal and get paid in bitcoin over monero even though bitcoin can be traced and is less private and secure than monero?it makes no sense to me
>>62769245Not an argument.
>>62769130The risk of such a flaw being found is the same pre and post le AyyEye revolution. Doomers are always wrong. No exceptions.
>>62770325How in the fucking world can you say this? It makes literally no sense. What were the odds of solving Navier-Stokes? What were the odds of disproving the Erdos Planar Unit Distance Conjecture?You’re just stating these fucking ignorant opinions and have no idea the actual threat you’re facing.
>>62769107You mean the papers of which you claimed they had nothing about cryptography? What about them? >>62769130Just wait until you find out that it doesn't cost multiple millions and kvetching but the jew's finest gays to pick the lock to your gold vault.
>>62770382>How in the fucking world can you say this?Because I'm old enough to remember the times that modern cryptography was broken. AI doesn't really change anything except the time it'll take to find a vulnerability.Spoiler alert: the vulnerability was found and algorithms were either marked unsafe or upgraded.
>>62770427>nothing about cryptographyYeah it’s a pretty conspicuous absence. Almost like OpenAI is in constant dialogue with the US Government and a breakthrough in cryptography would undermine thousands of critical infrastructure systems.In case you can’t understand the implication: the rise of superintelligence has/will very likely break the math underpinning all cryptocurrencies. Maybe we “luck out” in a sense that cryptography is so important that the government doesn’t ALLOW publication of papers that break it.But I’m not sure how that’s supposed to make you comfortable in your investment. Monero has an expiration date that will be decided by the US government.
>>62770483>We have no papers so cryptography must be broken>But we also can't disclose anything since we have no papers (>>62769107)>But also if we did have papers that would be bad since it proves that there were vulnerabilities (>>62763891)Make up your mind, I'm not paying taxes for this shitty psyop
>>62770487Here’s what you have:>AI publishing breakthrough papers about dozens of novel areas of mathematics >cryptography has……….very little published about it>leading experts in cryptography directly saying “we may lose public key cryptography”.If you’re not at LEAST concerned about that I literally don’t know what to tell you. Maybe you’re just stupid and don’t understand the threat? That’s what I keep coming back to. AI is running 24/7, a paper can be released at any time if the government allows it. I honestly don’t understand how this isn’t a problem to you.Hiding behind “nothing happened yet” really isn’t an answer at all. Nobody is arguing there is evidence of a breakthrough today. I’m telling you to look at the evidence that DOES exist and estimate the likelihood that elliptic curves researched over a decade ago are actually hard enough to survive superintelligence.
>>62770494Just decide if no papers is good or bad finally.
>>62770503Fuck you. Are you incapable of abstract thought? What the fuck kind of response is this. Retard.
>>62770507Is it good or bad if no papers about vulnerabilities have been published?
>>62770518>>62770507
>>62770532I'm asking you a question so you can defend your position. Is it a good sign or a bad sign if concrete knowledge about vulnerabilities is published?
>>62770545I don’t agree with your retarded binary framing so I’m not answering you. I gave you plenty of information and you haven’t responded to anything with any substance whatsoever. What’s the point of asking hurr durr good bad? Again, are you capable of abstract thought??
>>62770546>We have no recent LLM papers about cryptography and that's neither good nor badSo why should we care?
Oh God it's another episode of "anti-government concern troll" Anon has no evidence to support his claim (eg. CARROT view keys will compromise the chain) and continuously insists that the absence of this evidence is part of a grand government conspiracy to compromise security (eg. The government will demand/steal/harvest/etc CARROT view keys). Any attempts to point out fallacious logic (eg. They could do that right now without CARROT. They could also, just, you know, steal your private keys) will just further feed into the delusion (eg. That's a totally different level of illegality! The government would never do that!)The argument doesn't end because anon insists that us calling him retarded and wrong is just another layer of the anti-government conspiracy. I'll give it another 3 posts before he starts calling us all glowies from multiple IPs
>>62770556I literally explained EXACTLY WHY you should care. You’re a fucking bot
>>62770592>There could be something>I don't even know if it's good or bad>But you should care
>>62770632It’s pathetic that Monero people are this dumb. You’re embarrassing
If AI cracks cryptography, and the government can’t gatekeep it, what are the consequences other than crypto going to zero?
>>62770711>We have no papers>But maybe there could be papers and therefore we should be worried>But also we should be worried if vulnerabilities are found and patched
>>62770477>Because I'm old enough to remember the times that modern cryptography was broken.Uh, literally never?Certain hashing algorithms were found to be vulnerable, but public key cryptography itself has never been "broken".
>>62770742Literally all communications channels go back to being completely unencrypted plaintext that is trivially surveilled.Airgapped isolated systems become increasingly important for keeping anything secret.
Anon has already run his schtick on reddit and got told, btw. See: https://safereddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1x1kcn3/ai_is_experiencing_an_explosion_in_its_ability_to/Pic related pretty much sums up their receptiveness to the AI fud>>62770884>Certain hashing algorithms were found to be vulnerable, >but public key cryptography itself has never been "broken"Are you now moving the goalposts now to include all public key cryptography ever, to the point where no alternative algorithm will ever found to be secure?
>>62770893>Literally all communications channels go back to being completely unencrypted plaintext that is trivially surveilled.Given the amount of papers OpenAI is publishing, I don’t find this to be particularly unlikely. I think AI is going to dramatically disrupt many systems including crypto.Makes it extremely hard to invest in anything other than these retardedly oversubscribed and likely overpriced IPOs.
>>62770927>his schtickWhat is it with you people and assuming there’s only one person with a differing opinion online? I never fucking post on Reddit.You want to know why this so called “fud” is cropping up in multiple places? Because LEADING CRYPTOGRAPHY PROFESSORS are publicly predicting ECC will be broken. Is that good enough of a reason for you?
>>62770934See>>62770325>Doomers are always wrong. No exceptions.
>>62770945Wow compelling argument
after the 4th day in a row of trying to get this retarded blockchain to download and sync on my node after numerous resets, wallets, and bitmonero directory deletions, im getting fed up with monero and starting to see why zcash will be the future of crypto. shits fucked.
>>62770995You say that as if you're not an alarmist faggot with zero interest in being compelled
>>62771037Are you using the GUI or the command line to start the sync?
>>62770507Oh you're>implyingthey made some breakthroughs but those were not made public, but it caused this freakout?
>>62771041>zero interest in being compelledIf you actually had an argument about why superintelligent mathematics doesn’t fundamentally change the threat model of the cryptography that Monero uses I would actually listen to you.But you don’t have shit.
>>62770507If cryptography is broken there's more money to be made in BTC going to zero than XMR. Even if you fully compromised XMR you could market sell some single wallets and get more money out of it (and with identical risk, if XMR is broken, since it'd also be transparent).Or are you arguing that keys aren't broken yet, but transaction cryptography is? Because then XMR and Zcash are both going to 0. Well Zcash is a scam pump that should be 0 from its inflation bug so they probably won't miss a beat to just drop the shielded pool altogether.
>>62771212Who the fuck cares about zcash? Whenever anyone tries to argue this it’s always like “but it’s the same for other cryptos” or “but there’s even more important systems that use cryptography like telecoms”Yes - I understand that. It doesn’t change the reality that superintelligence is being applied to mathematics and it’s successfully creating new developments.Things are about to get extremely weird and probably very dangerous. A byproduct of it appears to be that Monero will be worthless.
>>62771203>superintelligent mathematics doesn’t fundamentally change the threat model of the cryptography that Monero usesNo one ever said this, retard. Furthermore, super intelligent mathematics has always been apart of the threat model of all cryptographic security assumptions, retard.Even further still, if you're assuming that AI models can, and probably will, be used to crack ECDSA, then why aren't you assuming that AI can, and probably will, be used to create new algorithms that AI crack? Is it because you're retarded doomer that doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about like usuaal?
>>62771351>Furthermore, super intelligent mathematics has always been apart of the threat model of all cryptographic security assumptions, retard.You’re just making shit up. Go ahead and try and tell me you “priced in” the fact that OpenAI would solve hundreds of open problems in mathematics in 2026 years ago. Why the fuck are you pretending this is something you anticipated? It obviously isn’t true. It’s okay to admit things are progressing more than you expected. It’s true for basically everyone in the world. Have some fucking humility and stop acting so childish when something you care about is threatened.>why aren't you assuming that AI can, and probably will, be used to create new algorithms that AI crack?Who is going to apply the fix? The same 8 person team who are the only intelligent people in this coin who also are taking fucking multiple years implementing FCMP? You have no army of cryptographers who will be able to respond quickly to the obviously fast changing space of new mathematics.
>>62733766Okay some of these I get but>gmailit's just a fucking envelope>google playIt's a fucking triangle>google GPSIt's an eyeball
>>62771572>You’re just making shit up.Funny choice of words here>Go ahead and try and tell me you “priced in” the fact that OpenAI would solve hundreds of open problems in mathematics in 2026 years ago.Never claimed this, retard. You just made this shit up>Why the fuck are you pretending this is something you anticipated?Never said it was, retard. You just made this shit up>It’s okay to admit things are progressing more than you expected. It’s true for basically everyone in the world.Never claimed this wasn't the case, retard. You just made this shit up.>Have some fucking humility and stop acting so childish when something you care about is threatened.Monero is always being threatened by one thing or the other, retard.>Who is going to apply the fix? The same 8 person tea-Woah there, retard. You have to properly abandon your AI Doomer narrative before moving on to your Smol Dev Team Bad narrative. Take your time.
>>62771749Everything is just a defensive “nuh-huh” instead of dealing with the actual point.Not sure there’s much point continuing to talk to you. It’s obvious you’re not interested in discussing anything. You just want to pretend nothing has changed in the last few weeks, instead of actually thinking about how to prepare for it.
>>62771810>Comes into thread with unprovable accusations >"Why are you acting so defensively, dude?"Enjoy masturbating to your doomer porn
>>62772024>unprovable accusationsJust look at the defensive way you even describe it. Theres no “accusation” here. It’s stating a FACT that the field of mathematics has changed just in the last few weeks. That also changes the threat model of cryptography.How do you respond? >we anticipated thisImpossible, no you didn’t >is it bad or good?What?>you’re just FUDingPointless to even addressYou’re emotional about your bags and you’re not thinking clearly.
>>62771810The 'actual point' is that the biggest scam of the 2020s might or might not have some breakthroughs in cryptography that might or might not get published and could or maybe couldn't result in a workable exploit. Are you the kind of person that believes his home has been robbed whenever he isn't home?
>>62772240Are you delusional?Married to your bags?Do you just not understand?I’m astounded how low IQ the Monero community is proving to be. Yes, it is both new and highly notable that developments in mathematics are happening on a weekly basis with AI now. If you don’t understand or can’t appreciate how this NEWLY CHANGES the threat surface of Monero (possibly affecting your risk tolerance of holding it or selling what you have) then I simply believe you’re not intelligent.
Just market sold all my monero for STRK becuase STRK has real privacy with ZK Proofs not just obfuscation, not to mention Starknet is also quantum proof and has some of the top computer scientists working on it (founder is a PhD. From the University of Jerusalem) I’m going all in here boys
>>62772148All anyone has been able to show is AI using math that already existed to find flaws that already existed. It's about as big of a change as John Hackerman III doing it.
>>62772280>We have no published LLM papers about cryptographyThen there's nothing to worry about>But we could have someAnd where's your indicator for the existence of those papers?>Well they didn't publish any papers on cryptographyBack to the start. Do not collect $200>Bu-First off, illegal move. Secondly, the possibility of exploits exist for ANY system at EVERY time, however, cryptographic compromises normally are much harder to find and exploit than picking the lock to your gold. So please tell us which currency is completely safe.
>>62772292Do you actually believe ECC is perfect? Do you understand its mathematical underpinnings? The only reason it holds up is because it is assumed that the problems are so sufficiently hard that nobody can solve them. That assumption is changing.>>62772303I just refuse to believe you don’t understand the actual problem and you’re literally just pretending not to get it now. You’re not worth responding to.
>>62772327>Well there could be papers because none were publishedThis is your actual argument. Mind you, you're also the samefag who cried about >testnet for FCMP [revealing] an inflation bug possibility (>>62763891)So when there are no papers published you cry about there being none, when bugs are found you cry about them being found. Now, to save face do the following: Tell us the one currency or highly liquid asset class that is completely invulnerable for all eternity.
>>62772339Done responding to you. You don’t have a high enough IQ to understand the issue or speak on it intelligently.
>>62772390>Wahhh I can't get called out on my double standardsAt least you didn't deny samefagging to push your shitty fud campaign.
Shielded ZEC is the strongest practical privacy coin for real capital and long-term survival.Its anonymity set is the entire shielded pool. A shielded spend proves membership across roughly 5 million ZEC (~29% of supply, mostly Ironwood) without naming any subset. That is cryptographically larger per transaction than Monero’s current ring of 16. Privacy is optional by design: transparent addresses keep exchange rails, custody, and accounting straightforward while shielded pools deliver strong zero-knowledge privacy when chosen. Selective disclosure via viewing keys lets users prove activity to auditors or counterparties without making the whole chain public. That combination is why ZEC retains listings, attracts ETF flows, and can clear regulated venues that refuse Monero.Quantum resistance is further along. Ironwood notes (live since July 2026) are already quantum-recoverable. Developers have a concrete target to land hash-based signature opcodes for the transparent pool (the majority of supply) in January. The Epoch project aims at production-ready post-quantum cryptography by the end of 2027. Monero has research but no comparable shipped path or near-term roadmap; any change requires a contentious hard fork.Scalability has an active engineering track. Zakura and Project Tachyon target orders-of-magnitude higher shielded throughput (including multi-thousand TPS goals) by compressing verification data. Current throughput is low on both chains, but ZEC’s roadmap is explicit and resourced.Mandatory privacy on Monero maximizes anonymity-set purity and eliminates user error, at the cost of liquidity, institutional access, and upgrade agility. ZEC trades a smaller default anonymity set for deeper liquidity, regulatory tolerance, selective disclosure, and a clearer quantum and scaling path. For capital that wants privacy without becoming a stranded bag, that trade-off wins.
>>62772327>Do you actually believe ECC is perfect?No>Do you understand its mathematical underpinnings? Yes>The only reason it holds up is because it is assumed that the problems are so sufficiently hard that nobody can solve them. Yes>That assumption is changing.No.
>>62772412>That assumption is changing.>No.Wrong.
>>62772474>WrongExactly. That assumption was always wrong, therefore nothing changes.
>>62772474>Things could be changing>The proof? No published papers
Retoswap has released an update>https://github.com/retoaccess1/haveno-reto/releases/
>>62772488>That assumption was always wrongDo you realize that by saying this you’re arguing that crypto is fundamentally insecure? So you’re agreeing with me? Why are you here?>>62772606Do you realize that the moment this theoretical paper gets published, Monero is literally worthless? It doesn’t strike you as relevant to discuss the possibility? You’re retarded.
>>62772753>Do you realize that the moment this theoretical paper gets published, Monero is literally worthless? It doesn’t strike you as relevant to discuss the possibility? You’re retarded.Do you realize that you don't even know the difference between a vulnerability and an exploit? Or that the chance of someone finding some 0d in the crypto algos XMR uses was never 0? Or that they simply could do a responsible disclosure? Or fix the bug themselves? So your point boils down to:>Well yes this is nothing new but somehow having glorified word guessing machines that constantly are wrong is much worse than all previous attempts by state actors to break other state's encryption
>>62772768>this is nothing new.Did OpenAI publish 722 mathematical breakthroughs in 2025?In 2024?2023?2022?2021?2020?2019?2018?2017?2016?2015?2014?No?? They literally just did it last week? Oh okay. So why are you saying it’s nothing new?Why are you fucking lying through your teeth and embarrassing yourself?
gET yOUR SaNITiZED thBREAD right this way folks >only xmr biz owners allowed to post in this thread, all others will have no quarter >>>62771707
I see our resident concern troll is back to warn us about the usual impending doom.
>>62772768>this is nothing new... >glorified word guessing machines ...I don't even know what to say to you.
Sup /biz/ tards /pol/ chud here, im thinking about selling my monero for some QTCThoughts? Seems like it’s like monero but quantum proof pretty cool stuff. >>62773480
>>62772753>So you’re agreeing with me?Agreeing on what? You have yet to settle on a single point. so it's quiet literally impossible>AI mught break crypto>AI will break crypto >AI already broke crypto, but the Goobermint is keeping it a secret>I was too busy jerking off to realize AI can be used to fix crypto, but who care because the the dev steam blah blah blah>Crypto is fundamentally broken>Reeeee be concerned about this you meanieAm I missing any?Can you pick one already?
>>62773798>if I apply semantics to the argument I won’t have to answer itJust admit you have nothing to say. It’s obvious what the relevant information is. And you’ve found 17 different ways of avoiding talking about it.
>>62774011>the argumentWhich is what, exactly?>It’s obvious what the relevant information isSo it shouldn't be that difficult to summarize your point in 3-4 sentences without changing your stance every time someone points out how retarded you are.Go on. I'll wait.
>>62774110>Math is changing extremely fast on a monthly or weekly basis now.>If/when it applies to cryptography (which may have already happened secretly) it would mean Monero goes to $0>Even if some buffer period is allowed, Monero only has like 8 true devs, so it’s extremely difficult to adapt to new math with such a small team. I have literally explained all of this before. I absolutely refuse to state this again, offer further explanation, determine whether it’s “good” or “bad”. The information is clear. The relevance is clear. If you choose to ignore it or find some semantic reason you don’t have to think about it, fine. I don’t care, I’m fucking tired of dealing with your intentionally obtuse bullshit.
>>62774265if encryption is broken, i doubt my monero bags will be the worst part of the situation
>>62774265>Math is changingFinding solutions to a bunch of previously unsolved problems using math that already exists doesn't necessarily mean that anything has changed, regardless of who or what solved them, or how fast they were solved. A new field of math would have to emerge based on any of those findings.>If/when it applies to cryptography (which may have already happened secretly) it would mean Monero goes to $0Unfortunately you're going to have to be more specific than "cryptography", because as it stands now this statement is only true if it's proven that AI is capable if cracking every cryptographic technique in existence. Is that what you're implying? Or did you mean only the cryptography that Monero deploys?Do you not see an end where everything except the cryptography Monero uses is cracked and Monero goes to $1 mil?>Even if some buffer period is allowed, Monero only has like 8 true devs, so it’s extremely difficult to adapt to new math with such a small team. You have no way of measuring how difficult this would be relative to the size of a development team. It's also irrelevant depending on your views on your second point, since AI would just crack that new math too, which the dev team would take too long to adapt to, but then AI would crack that new math too, which the dev team would take too long log to adapt to, but then AI would crack that new math too, which the dev team would take too long to adapt to, but then AI would crack that new math too, which the dev team would take too long to adapt to, but then AI would crack that new math too, which the dev team would take too long to adapt to, but then AI would crack that new math too....Are you ready to accept that maybe you haven't thought this through?
>>62774284Who cares what the worst part is? The point is Monero will be fatally affected and probably lacks the resources to recover. If you’ve been paying attention to the developments in mathematics, a fallout much larger than Monero failing probably *should be expected*.
>>62774477>Do you not see an end where everything except the cryptography Monero uses is cracked and Monero goes to $1 mil?No. There’s nothing particularly unique about Ed25519. Monero’s unique properties come at the protocol level not the elliptic curve.
>>62774484yeah ill probably have to go back to buying drugs with cash, that would be the worst part
>>62774503>NoThen you're just stuck in the circular logic loop I described. You're not thinking about this objectively at all.Thanks for playing, retard.
>>62774284>if encryption is broken, i doubt my monero bags will be the worst part of the situationThis. If the cryptography Monero relies on were broadly broken Monero itself would be among the least important consequences. Banks, payment networks, TLS, software signing, encrypted communications, authentication systems, corporate infrastructure, yada yada yada all depend on the same general cryptographic foundations. Monero failing would be but one teeeeeny symptom of a much larger civilizational-scale security collapse.So quit trying to make this a Monero-only issue, its fundamentally a "civilization as we know it" issue.
>>62774535So you’re just going to ignore what I said? This isn’t random chance retard. We know what 25519 is and Monero doesn’t have unique encryption.>>62774553This is an irrelevant “point”. Again who cares what the worst outcome is of encryption being broken? This is a Monero thread. That’s why you’re seeing it being discussed in relation to Monero.
>>62774563>So you’re just going to ignore what I said?Yes, retard, because you're implying that every crypto will 100% be cracked by AI, if it hasn't already, and there's no solution to this because AI will just crack those solutions too. It's circular logic that only makes sense to retarded doomers but makes the rest of us laugh
>>62774563>if a massive solar flare took out half the earths power, how would monero users and devs deal with this? arent people already working on 'quantum proof' encryption for this very scenario? you can even search the monero research labs documents and see this is already an ongoing discussion where they plan to move away from elliptic curve>https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=250&list=1&highlight=1
>>62774604>arent people already working on 'quantum proof' encryption for this very scenario?But anon, AI will just crack those quantum proof algos too. It'll figure out a way to mass produce the 100000+ qbits needed to crack CSIDH and ruin everything Don't you understand just how over it is!?
https://x.com/yfarmx/status/2108918564015006200Ledger thieves tried using zcash and immediately got smoked LMAO
i hate cia and agoracucks
>>62774652Sounds like zcash wasn't their problem, they just had a dumb most predictable pattern.
>>62774730You could argue that it was a zcash problem, as there's nowhere and nothing to sell your shielded zcash for except unshielded zcash
>>62773215Maybe ask an AI>>62774484>The point is Monero will be fatally affected and probably lacks the resources to recover.Everything will be 'fatally affected' or do you think your shitty door lock will be save from raiders after the entire banking system collapses, communications seize being secure and authentic, and any military can destroy yours since you can't have secrets anymore. If not: Please tell us which currency would be save if cryptography just imploded. >>62774619The funny thing about these low quality fudders is that they can never offer a comparable solution. He will not be able to tell me what currency to use or even what good I should invest in the most before the bartering starts.
>>62777361>Everything will be 'fatally affected'So what? How is that an argument? How many times do I have to make this point in a single thread? Saying “hurr durr other things will get broken too” doesn’t suddenly make Monero safer. AI is an explosion of cheap intelligence orders of magnitude larger than the Industrial Revolution. Why WOULDNT it result in MANY things breaking from pre-AI era cryptography? That includes Monero and the investment thesis of many here. I’m so fucking tired of repeating myself to you retards. Your replies are not disposing of my argument and most of the time don’t even accurately reflect what I’m saying. >He will not be able to tell me what currency to use or even what good I should invest inWhy do I owe that to you? What the fuck? It’s completely separate from the point I’m making. I don’t have to give you an alternative investment to point out major risk factors in Monero. Go fuck yourself.AGAIN look at all the defensiveness from everyone here. It’s impossible to talk with you people. I apparently have to overcome multiple layers of motivated reasoning just to get a completely logical and reasonable thought past your thick skulls.
>>62777798You're basically proposing that AI can/will be able to crack cryptography faster than AI can/will be able to fix the cryptography when you have no way of verifying how fast it can/will be able to do either of those things, if it can/will be able to even do them at all, and the reason you don't is because there's a lock on that proof that presumably it can't/won't be able to circumvent, but it can/will be able to circumvent every other lock in existence.You're retarded, anon. That's the answer to your point.
>>62778175>I am afraid/too stupid to grapple with the reality of AI literally upending the fundamentals of mathematics literally last week, so I will criticize the ambiguity that NECESSARILY MUST EXIST regarding how it will affect Monero so that I don’t have to think about uncomfortable things
>>62778412Jesus you're insufferable.Okay here's and answer "monero would be cooked and we'll have to go back to either cash or create a new coin that doesn't use modern cryptography." Boom. Monero would lose in this scenario.Thank you for bumping the thread to 300
540 crab coin
tldr? I was 200 posts behind
