I hope that Ita doesn't die off as a term, and we need to use it more. Part of the appeal of Lolita for me is actually looking good in a style and if we don't gatekeep the hell out of it it will be watered down by TikTok tourists in cheap Amazon replicas with no blouse or petti

I think the Jirai culture is basically like old Lolita culture, sortof in the same way that 2020s Twitter became early 2010s Tumblr with the toxic woke shit while Tumblr actually chilled out a lot imo, the normies start to get influenced by the autists eventually but they're always a little behind. Like how a lot of 4chan slang is now Zoomer brainrot shit, trends are set by autists and normies eventually copy it. Jirai is cheaper and more fast fashion so it's easier to get into for normies, so you get more normies invading and trying to be Different, and they're discovering the joys of gatekeeping that we have forgotten

I'm just some dude who's been observing EGL through conventions and this board for the past decade without participating in it, so feel free to discard my opinions.

>Brand whore as a concept nearly disappearing in the west
This will somewhat apply to several of the other questions asked in the OP, but basically with zoomers onward there's been a generational shift in fandoms in general to where being a poser is now seen as the cool thing to do, and fandoms have become primarily for peacocking on social media instead of for community. "Brand whoring" as you put it, ero, it's all done for views on Insta and TikTok now. For example, regarding ero you really see it in the goth space (not EGL but just G) now where the modern goth is just wearing skimpy shit but making sure it's black. The music, occult stuff and other things goths did 10+ years ago aren't in the picture.

>is the jirai culture online our fault?
It would be cool if someone ITT would explain this to me, this is something I haven't been exposed to very much. As I understood it, the western concept of jirai kei is basically e-girls that borrow aesthetic elements from EGL.

>Why do you think EGL as a whole has moved away from cgl?
Discord

>is the time of the Lolita influencer over?
Right now is probably the best time to be an influencer in general, but you basically need to maximize selling out to posers to blow up.

>>10972307
>2020s Twitter became early 2010s Tumblr with the toxic woke shit
This was true for a while with early 2020's Twitter, but most woke people have by now fucked off to Bluesky which is why you barely see any rainbow avatars on Twitter right now despite it being pride month. Depending on how you influence your account's algorithm, late 2020's Twitter will read like /pol/ or /aco/ or both.

the simple answer OP is, this is a female dominated hobby in a male dominated forum. Of course cgl was always meant to die down as other more female dominated forums appeared.

On a side note, I suspect the day there is such thing as a male dominated goth lolita trend we could expect /cgl/ to explode in popularity once again. (ouji and jirai ain't it)

>is the jirai culture online our fault?
Not sure why this would be lolitas' fault; it seems like the majority of jirai wearers weren't ever lolitas and/or in the lolita community. Their craziness is all their own.

>-Why do you think EGL as a whole has moved away from cgl?
Discord/Tiktok.

>-is the time of the Lolita influencer over?
Please god let it be true.

>Ero is back, and becoming popular, but why? Male infiltration, or are we finally reclaiming ero as a community?
A fad. I'm guessing some tiktok got popular or the discourse on twitter got people interested so now more people are taking a stab at it. It's like the 2 dresses trend or everyone photoshopping themselves to look like they are in a kera/brand ad, it's a trend and once people will get bored, will move onto the next viral thing. Not sure what men have to do with it...

>gooning and its effects on our psychology, how it has stopped many of us from posting publicly
Never heard of anyone doing this. There's people that are mad about or don't post because of ageplayers or sissies or other fetishists, sure, but never heard of anyone specifically mentioning because of "gooning" or gooners or w/e. And fetishists have been a problem since the beginning, so not something new.

>is Lolita even a community anymore?
Just because there isn't a central internet "hub" for lolita like there used to be, doesn't mean it's not still a community. It's just more fragmented and private due to stupid corporations deciding saying the word "lolita" is a ban-able offense.

>>10972302
>Why is ita mostly dying as an insult? Are we not using it enough, or is it past it's time?

My personal theory is that - particularly in American EGL culture - Conservatives and Democrats both participate in the fashion, but there's a definitive push from the left towards inclusivity, which translates to zero criticism of poorly disguised trans and by extension itas. In contrast, conservatives don't appreciate values that don't apply to them being pushed on them, and in the worst cases they lash out and end up banned or ostracized by local comms. Especially in the trans space there is evidence of abuse from predatory males, which makes it all the worse for genuinely transitioning individuals who want to find their community.

Constructive criticism has been prevalent in the EGL space for a long time, as it has been proven to be one of the most difficult fashions to "pull off" and one needs a strong sense of proportion, color theory, and visual knowledge of the fashion's history consistently create successful coordinates. However, constructive criticism has gained a poor reputation after the popup of gossip sites, and the idea of publicly shaming peoples' coordinates has obviously pushed people away from the space, or at least participating in the space publicly. If you're wondering why you're seeing less gossip online, it's because no one wants their shit smeared online.

Let's say we move away from the "safe space" mentality towards one of constructive criticism with the intention of genuinely helping itas develop their sense of style. No matter where they come from, itas are typically newcomers to the fashion and could use a kind word of advice when requested. And should they never improve, every person has the right to freely associate with whomever they choose to.

>>10972360
>Brand whore as a concept nearly disappearing in the west
I disagree, it's just a generational difference where millennials still value classic brands and zoomers have fewer resources and therefore choose more affordable options. Devil Inspired and other crappy brands also advertise way more on social media sites, versus AP, Meta, and BtSSB secretly requiring more money and effort to acquire.

>gooning and its effects on our psychology, how it has stopped many of us from posting publicly
Gooning sucks for sure but try avoiding your family and co-workers find your coords insta. Nearly impossible to keep accounts private with Meta's suggestion algorithm. Easy to get rid of and block unwanted strangers but when someone you know sees your ero or full goth coord when they're not used to it opens up the floodgates of annoying comments.

>Ero is back, and becoming popular, but why? Male infiltration, or are we finally reclaiming ero as a community?
Especially in con scenes but additionally in clubs, festivals, and etc. slut culture is in full swing. Ladies in barely there booty shorts, showing tummy and leaving little to the imagination. Ero lolita is the sexy option for ladies who still primarily "cover up" - and I'm happy that a refined, yet still sexy option exists for EGL wearers.

>is Lolita even a community anymore?
Are you my community? TF you mean? Find people on Insta and Discord and try being a friend instead of a salty bitch.

>>10972360
I want to be inclusive and super lib but my lived experience of interacting with trans individuals has always been eventually negative. Men are socialized a lot differently growing up, so when I treat a trans girl like a girl and give them a compliment on their appearance, the male socialization kicks in like a sleeper agent and they take it as flirting and it gets weird, when girls just... compliment each other sometimes??? Or if they're in a relationship, the vibe will be so foul and they'll be really passive aggressive towards cis women/anyone they're not dating. When all that comes pre-loaded in a conversation, even mentioning that they could be ita is a fucking minefield

>>10972361
>Find people on Insta and Discord and try being a friend instead of a salty bitch.
I don't think they're asking this in a salty way, I think they are genuinely asking considering how /cgl/'s traffic has plummeted and the old places the lolita community used to use (the EGL livejournal group, facebook groups) have also died out.

>>10972363
>I want to be inclusive and super lib
Just give up with that sentiment and admit that conservative/rw women were right about this. The big problem with lolita comms (at least western) is that it’s too inclusive and left wing. Lolitas complain about men in comms since there have been cases of men being creepy in meets but then are more than happy to let in trans women (men) in their comms, make it make sense. Not trying to be an asshole or say that you should lash out at transppl like a retard but I keep hearing about these unfortunate experiences with trans women everytime and female lolitas need to stop being afraid of backlash and just be more honest about the trans question.

>>10972302
>Why is ita mostly dying as an insult? Are we not using it enough, or is it past it's time?

Eh, I'm not big on being insulting generally. I'll happily do concrit, or say I don't like something, but why be mean?

Though as >>10972307 said there is something to be said for encouraging quality, I just personally don't like being a dick about it.

>Brand whore as a concept nearly disappearing in the west

Cool. There are so many good options that why would anyone want to be limited? I also think that with burando being so much more accessible there's not really much cachet to being a brandwhore any more. Anyone with some money can do it.

Ties in with what >>10972309 said about peacocking. Being a brandwhore isn't it anymore, because people chasing that cachet aren't looking for it from the lolita community anymore.

>gooning and its effects on our psychology, how it has stopped many of us from posting publicly

IDGAF if someone is gooning to my stuff, if they're a creep publicly I block and move on. But then, I'm not like 15 and have a very thick skin (and do make adult content on the side anyway) sooooooo

>Ero is back, and becoming popular, but why? Male infiltration, or are we finally reclaiming ero as a community?

I actually credit this to the rise of the AP 9other AP) socials since they often have more gothy/ero/miniskirt stuff

>is Lolita even a community anymore?

Yep, but less monolithic. Online communities in general have changed, moving from forums to short-form video (ew) but that just is what it is. Still a community.

>is the jirai culture online our fault?

?????

>Why do you think EGL as a whole has moved away from cgl?

Lack of activity, and too much hostility/non-lolitas participating. I know I stopped posting much because everything was getting derailed by some troll. I miss old CGL.

>is the time of the Lolita influencer over?

Nope, it's just spreading to micro-influencers like literally everything else.

>>10972360
Wait, what? An actual nuanced take with a logical conclusion? GTFO lol

Thought if you're also >>10972470 then ugh.

Transwomen are women, and different from sissy fetishists. I understand that especially early in transition the outwardly visual differences are slim but group one just genuinely want to be here, and group two...well, it's uncool to include unwilling people in your fetish so ugh.

>>10972499
It takes subtle yet firm leadership to know how to include the right people in a comm.

"The cool trans"
If a trans girl just wants to hang out at meets, is polite, and causes no issue among lolitas, then there should be no issue. I've seen a case where a lolita publicly spoke out out against ALL trans being in the EGL community and was kicked out of a comm for it, and I agree that this level of exclusion shouldn't be accepted.

Potentially problematic
"The Sus trans"
This person may have something off about them and would broadly be described as "ita" - they don't know how to groom themselves, or their coord needs help. Style and personal appearance are cultivated and need space and time to grow, and the level of refinement shown often reflects the person inside. The trans ita's worse offense is making inappropriate sexual jokes towards other lolitas.
Each person needs one good chance:
-Older sister figure, comm leader, or someone capable should find a private moment to address any issue and make suggestions.
-Please treat with kindness, not criticism. People can learn and grow and communities are exactly the place for it.
-Positive response would be an effort to change in behavior which indicates openness and willingness to learn. Negative response means you have to find a way to exclude them from further meets, it happens!
**Always have a reason for exclusion. "They said something wildly offensive and inappropriate and were unapologetic about it", or any other solid reason. Comms should consider ALL of its members and no one causing issues gets a free pass.**
I could yap about this forever but it takes maturity to handle these situations and a good comm will be willing to take this on at least once per member. I know it's not fun but it comes with the territory of putting all the ND gals in one space.

cont...

>>10972525
I wanted to point out that "sus trans" has a lot of similar territory to "neurodivergant gal" and sometimes both need more effort to handle socially. For reference - ND gals are often guilty of talking forever with no consideration to others, not controlling voice volume, or any number of social improprieties.

Finally, the worst "Fetishist"
They think lolitas are primarily sexy. They are poorly masked and off brand. They are obviously males entering a female space.
Find a way to exclude them. In this instance I think it's okay to have several people from the comm tell them to leave - what does /cgl think? If their case is obviously a lost one, you will have strength in numbers if everyone votes to openly exclude them. Do not shout or throw insults, always maintain a calm voice and agree as a group on an approach:
For violating community guidelines: "Our community guidelines require [mention specific rule, e.g., a respectful environment]. Because your recent actions don't align with these standards, we have to part ways.
"The "It's not you, it's us" approach: "As our community evolves, we are shifting our direction and unfortunately can't accommodate everyone. We are removing you from the group to help us move in this new direction.

I really think comm leaders should read up on harassment and how to handle these situations if the police need to be involved. This is obviously an extreme, worst case scenario BUT it can happen and if comms want to thrive they need to be prepared to exclude when necessary.

I want to say one last thing: I've never encountered the above and I have a trans friend who is an amazing diva. I'm open to criticism and discussion on anything mentioned above. I think comms are great and every lolita should explore how they can join a community if available in their area. It can teach one so much about communication - an invaluable soft skill throughout your life! And what better way to make lifelong friends?

>>10972525
Why do you assume all non trans lolitas are ND?

>>10972527
I do agree that comm leaders need to keep the comm safe. Open, and accepting, and willing to give chances, but overall safe.

I was lucky enough that when I led a small comm we had no issues, and it would be challenging to handle appropriately.

>>10972531
Buddy, friend, pal...I hate to break it to you but nearly every alternative person (lolitas included) are ND is some way.

>>10972531
I never said that. Please read "the cool trans" paragraph again, thanks.

>>10972545
Oh wait lol I see what you mean from that last sentence. Yeah a lot of the EGL community is ND but I didn't mean to misspeak and indicate that everyone is.

>>10972531
If you're on this board you are ND

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>>10972315
>(ouji and jirai ain't it)
Jirai no, Ouji just doesn't have the same same exposure in media that EGL does, ergo it won't be as popular because men already inherently aren't particularly fashionable nor care about fashion.

>>10972315
>>10972570
Ouji was never really "for men" anyways. It's a masculine style, but it was always for women first.

>>10972553
Fair enough, lmao