I'm conducting an experiment where I pit 2 batches of cookies against one another. The difference between the two is one batch is made using quality ingredients sourced from my local high-end grocery store and the other batch is made using wal-mart's Great Value line of budget products. Both batches go through the exact same process of >creaming butter and sugar for 3 minutes in a stand mixer with a pause in the middle to scrape the bowl>adding the eggs and vanilla and whisking together by hand>folding in the dry ingredients>scooping onto baking sheet>baking for 11 minutes 45 seconds at 350>cooling for 3 minutes on a tray before being transferred to a rackFor some reason, the Great Value cookies consistently puff up a lot better than their high end counterparts. The HQ cookies deflate a lot more and overall look less appealing because of it. The GV cookies on the other hand have more of a "shortbread" taste to them as my taste testers have communicated. I really want to get to the bottom of this discrepancy, because in my head the two should come out pretty much identically, at least visual wise, given that they both went through the exact same baking process. Some notable differences between the two ingredient sets:>the HQ cookies used pure cane sugar (all they have) vs. the wal-mart cookies using white sugar (i've done the test again replacing the cane sugar with high quality white sugar and they still came out flatter)>the pure cane sugar's individual granules are larger than the white sugar granules (2/3x as big)>the GV flour is very visually "clumpier" than the FM flour>the HQ eggs are brown and have a yellower yolk vs the white paler GV eggs>the HQ cookies use sea salt vs the GV cookies using regular non-iodized saltAll leaveners were tested to make sure they didn't expire. I've done a few test mixing and matching ingredients and haven't been able to pin down one specific factor that leads to the big difference in the outcome.
>>22045739What about the fat, have you considered that there could be a difference there?
>>22045784I've considered that. The GV butter is visually much paler than the HQ butter as well, I should have mentioned. I've done several super small 2/3 cookie batches to test out different mixes and matches, one of which was 2 GV batches except one used HQ butter and sugar instead of GV butter and sugar. Both puffed up the same but the cookies with the GV butter and sugar once again got the shortbread comparison, so I think THAT aspect at least can be attributed to the GV fat and sugar.
>>22045786I know that the melting temp of the fat you use, as well as the temp when you put the cookies in the oven, can have a big effect on the finished product. I'm pretty sure that's why we're told to refrigerate the dough for half an hour before baking.You're probably dealing with differing fat contents as well.
>>22045798I'll make note of that. I tried to avoid refrigerating my dough because the only powdered leavening agent in my dough is baking soda, and I know baking soda has a finite bench tolerance. I didn't know if waiting too long would diminish the baking soda's effect on the rise. I'll have to try and see if I can find out the exact fat content of both butters.
>>22045739if the cookies are flat they need more flour
>>22045739r u retarded?
>>22045954I think this poster might be right. You observed the GV flour being clumpier; could this be translating to it sitting more densely in the measuring cup? Or are you using a scale? It would also be consistent with the distinctly shortbread like taste you noted.
>>22046055I'm using a scale, I always bake by weight. Both cookies use the exact same quantity of ingredients by weight. Maybe the GV AP flour has a higher gluten content than the HQ AP flour?
>>22045739Good quality eggs are bigger with more yolk. Probably just made your batter wetter
Make a small batch of GV cookies but for a single ingredient, swap it out with a HQ brand. If nothing changes in puffiness and taste, then swap out a different ingredient. If I myself were to guess, I'd reckon that it's the flour used, and it'd be the thing I'd swap out to test first. I'd be guessing that the gluten structure is affecting the puffiness, and the flavor from the flour composition. It doesn't seem hard to believe that a higher quality fat might change the taste, but to change the water content so much that it affects puffiness gives me doubt. One thing I noticed is that you didn't give cookies time to rest in the fridge (most cookies should imo), to rest the dough and to let the sugar dissolve more and to evaporate more water. For your further experiments, I'd advise against doing this until you wish to test out fridge and or rest effects, and it'd save you time too. Dissolved sugar due to sugar granule size probably has some effect but I'd feel it would be textural changes at best. You also made sure to alternate the cookie balls on the tray right? To minimize any oven or airflow effects? I'm too lazy to flip the tray halfway. Even if not, I doubt oven would be the cause
>>22046289>Make a small batch of GV cookies but for a single ingredient, swap it out with a HQ brand. If nothing changes in puffiness and taste, then swap out a different ingredient.I've been doing this, making small 2/3 cookie batches and swapping out components, but I haven't messed with swapping out flours yet. My first guess was that it had something to do with the whipped butter, so I tested that first. I thought maybe the larger sugar granules in the cane sugar messed up the aeration process somehow.>One thing I noticed is that you didn't give cookies time to rest in the fridgeAs I said here >>22045802 I don't know if refrigeration will negatively affect the dough's rise given that there's no double acting leavening agent present. Guess it's one more thing I'll have to test tomorrow. >You also made sure to alternate the cookie balls on the tray right? To minimize any oven or airflow effects?This I straight up didn't do or consider, but theoretically it shouldn't have made a difference since both batches were arranged on their pans identically. I've also tried baking the GV batch first and the HQ batch second, vice versa etc.. Do you have any further information on optimal arrangements?
Is there any difference in the protein content in the flour nutrition labels?
>>22046346Yeah you could definitely split the dough in half, where one is in the fridge and the other is straight into the oven.If you're doing two recipes at separate times, are you also using two different baking sheets? Cause if you're using the same sheet, then the second batch is going in on a hotter sheet, so it melts faster. This more so affects the spread than anything else, but it's why when I do testing, I alternate between the two cookies when I pack them onto the sheet pan, in typical hexagonal packing - not a square packing. That way each cookie gets a spot in the corner, gets a spot on the side, in the center, etc. Honestly, what you're doing might be better cause you aren't putting them in the fridge. So you make a batch, put in the oven, and while they're cooking, you make the second recipe within the 10 minutes. Ideally you'd have two aluminum trays. But if not, one only needs like 10-15 minutes to cool down, and you can speed up the time by placing it on a large room temp upside down cast iron or the top of a metal toaster oven to conduct the heat away. Or get a hair dryer and put it on cold air. And after like 5 minutes of that, rinse under water to get it down to room temp. Also, if you're using a silpat, the silicone mitigates effects too.
>>22046955Do NOT try to warp your pan by trying to cool it down too fast
ogey but which one tastes better
>>22046557The HQ flour is locally sourced and doesn't come with a nutritional label. They just sell different classifications (high gluten, patent, AP etc.) and one is left to infer the general protein content of the respective flour type. >>22046955>If you're doing two recipes at separate times, are you also using two different baking sheets?I more or less use the same 2 pans back and forth, but I've tried doing both batches first throughout various tests and the results don't change based on which one bakes before the other. The pans are usually cold to the touch by the time they re-enter the oven, anyway. >when I do testing, I alternate between the two cookies when I pack them onto the sheet pan, in typical hexagonal packing - not a square packing.I'm gonna have to try that, thanks.>>22046959So far the GV cookies have pretty consistently been winning. My last group had 9 out of 13 voters prefer the GV cookies. I'm going to try and implement some of the feedback from this thread tonight and hold another taste test tomorrow.
>>22045739unless you used weight for your ingredients your results will be flawed.
>>22046984everything has to be the same. same number of times things are mixed, same exact temperatures. same humidity levels. exactly the same oven temperature. same exact weight for all ingredients.and for true results the testing has to be double blind. the tasters and the person serving the food cannot know which is which before they taste them. also you need a pallet cleanser between tastings (but one that contains no salt, sugar or any ingredient in the cookies), and to wait the same amount of time. also tasting needs to be done in a place where there is no smell from baking. to account for nose blindness.
>>22047324I assure you things were as balanced as they could have been. The group from which I got the 9 out of 13 vote was simply told to taste each and rate which they preferred. The differentiating factor was only clarified after everyone gave their vote. I literally timed everything in the baking process to the second and to the gram, I was incredibly meticulous. Granted, there was no palate cleanser, but I cant imagine that would skew the vote that egregiously.
>>22045739pics or it didnt happen
OP here back from more testing. I performed 4 tests, 4 sets of 2 batches of cookies, both of which use the same GV ingredients with one exception>Test #1: One batch uses GV AP flour and the other uses HQ AP flour (Unsifted)>Test #2: One batch uses GV AP flour and the other uses HQ AP flour (Sifted)>Test #3: One batch uses GV AP flour and the other uses King Arthur (KA) AP flour (Unsifted)>Test #4: One batch uses GV AP flour and the other uses KA AP flour (Sifted)I put both doughs in at the same time for each test, 3 each. I tried varying the arrangement of the dough as I wasn't sure if the oven got hotter in the front or the back, but results seem to point towards a pretty even heat distribution. Anyway, here's what I observed.The flour definitely played a big part in the difference in consistency. For test #1, the GV flour cookies held quite nicely and had a nice thickness to them, whereas the HQ flour cookies spread and deflated very much like they have in previous tests. For test #2, the cookies seemed pretty evenly matched in density. Neither one seemed to completely deflate OR maintain that original thickness the GV flour cookies had for test #1. For test #3, the KA flour cookies held up better than any previous cookie, remaining very compact and spreading very little in the oven. However, I also observed that the second set of unsifted GV flour cookies spread FAR more than the ones from test #1, and I'm not 100% sure on why. My first guess is that the oven gradually got hotter over time and thus the consistency of the cookies was thrown off? I'm really not sure. The sifted GV flour cookies from test #4 likewise spread far more than the sifted GV flour cookies from test #2. The KA cookies once again retained the same taut and nonspreading consistency. Now at the very least I know that King Arthur flour results in a tighter packed dough, but now I'm left wondering what the hell happened to those GV flour cookies.
>>22047728My phone's a piece of shit that takes bad pictures so I usually don't bother, but here. These are the GV flour cookies from each test. It's hard to tell from a top-down picture, but you can see a gradual increase in spread even though 1 and 3 contain the exact same ingredients prepared the exact same way, same as 2 and 4.
>>22045739Great Value is dogshit.
>>22045739it's the flour. two different flours can have drastically different properties when baking.
Walmart milk products are bad enough I go to another store just for them.
>>22048071None of those have enough flour, or all have too much butter. Probably because you're a tard using weights.
