why is my bread so flat? it rises when it's proofing inside a glass jar but when I dump it onto my baking paper it flops out into a blob. even when I try to fold it up into a ball it just flattens out instead of rising. is the gluten too wimpy?
>>22250045>flops out into a blobOverfermented,underworked,poorly shaped. Pick 2 and a half of those.>proofing inside a glass jarSeems cramped. I really like cambros for working in.
>>22250048it's not like a mason jar it's this glass container I bought to keep leftovers in. I use it when I'm proofing my bread because it's clear and has straight sides so it's easy to see when the volume has doubled. am I supposed to shape it before I dump it out?
also I just had the thought that maybe I am overdoing it on hydration. logically if your dough has more water in it you could expect it to act more like water and want to spread out. is 82% too much for minimal kneading? it's too sticky to work with my hands so I just beat it in the bowl with a spoon until my arm gets tired.
>>22250045Probably an issue with your loaf forming, your gluten looks ok not great but not terrible either. The outer layer of the dough needs to be stretched tight to support the loaf, pull the top under as if you are trying to turn it inside out.
>>22250085That does not look like it is high hydration, crumb is all wrong.
>>22250129what is loaf forming? after my dough has doubled in size I dump it out on some paper and try to fold it in half a couple times without squeezing all the air out and then pull it into a ball by stretching the corners towards the bottom. it looks round then but I try to let it rise again while my oven is preheating and it just flattens out instead of becoming a bigger ball.>>22250130idk something else must have fucked up then this is what I used.
>>22250137At that hydration your loaf will generally grow outward more than upward while on the counter, height comes from the oven spring. Probably a mix of not enough kneading and poor loaf forming. Loaf forming is just shaping the loaf, when you pulled the corners under, keep pulling and really stretch the outside of the dough, bring almost to the point of tearing. When kneading remember that stretching the dough is what forms gluten; fold and push down and forward on the back part of the dough so the front part bulges up, push into that bulge so it stretches. Also, give your oven a good 20 or 30 minutes to preheat, if the walls of the oven are not soaked through you lose a good chunk of heat when you open the door to put in the loaf, this can kill oven spring. If electric, listen for its cycling and put the loaf in right when a cycle ends.
>>22250145>give your oven a good 20 or 30 minutes to preheatlol
>>22250148Oven temp can drop a good 50 degrees when you open the door. If you open the door right after the oven dings to tell you it hit temp, it will be slow to regain that heat since only the surface of the interior is heated. If you want good oven spring a long preheat is good. This also helps stabilize the temp during baking, especially in electric ovens.
>>22250045It's overproofed. Reduce your proofing time
>>22250085>is 82% too much for minimal kneadingno, but it really helps to be using the correct flour. Are you using pastry flour, all-purpose flour, regular bread flour, or strong bread flour? Are you doing a tangzhong? That lets you get more water in without making the dough too loose and wet.
>>22250045small crumb tells me your yeast isn't doing enough, all these guys talking about 'overfermenting' and 'underworking' are insane. Most loaves of bread I make are zero-knead and 15 hour ferments and they spring up fine. More than likely they're right about your oven spring being garbage, try cooking at a slightly higher temperature (+25F) or allow your bread to proof about 20 minutes longer than you have been.Though shaping is important, it will only contribute to the end product, it can't compensate for a bad proof or overworking.
>>22250152>is unironically retarded>tries to give advicelol
>>22250367The way he describes the dough being a formless deflated blob when he moves it to the baking paper that won't properly rise again makes it obvious it's not been properly worked. Read his post.
>>22250145>keep pulling and really stretch the outside of the doughis there a trick do doing this without losing all of the volume gained during proofing?>>22250160I let it double in size. it took about 2 hours. how long should I give it?>>22250271I'm using king arthur ap flour
>>22250507>king arthur apThat's a good AP flour, but 82% is too much for it. Even their bread flour is going to be tricky at that hydration level until you get a lot more practice managing high-hydration doughs.
>>22250550should I buy a stand mixer? until I get one should I dial back to 75% and use bread flour? a while ago I made my ideal bread with the shape and crumb I wanted but I've never been able to replicate it.
>>22250617It's not necessary at all. Even 70% hydration doughs will autolyse quite effectively.
>>2225008582% wtf? There are focaccia recipes that don't call for that hydration level. And you're doing it without even really knowing how to work high hydration dough? Yes, 82% is too high. Dial it back to like 60-65%, look up cold fermentation. If you cold fermented the 82% one it could be good focaccia, actually. Also, if you're really working with the weights listed in the pic, I hope your scale is very, very good because your 1g of yeast could be anywhere from .5g to 1.4g. That's a big difference.
>>22250708I don't have a scale. I figure if african women with dung powered ovens can get away with using their hands to measure volumes I should be able to get by with a measuring cup. it's probably why I was never able to replicate my one good roll though.
>>22251037Those african women with dung powered ovens can't get away with it either if it's their first time and don't have anybody around to show them the ropes.
I forgot to get bread flour at the store but I'm trying again at 70% hydration this time. I kneaded it for 10 minutes and let it rise for 90 minutes at 72 degrees. trying to make it into a ball again after removing it from the container squished out almost all of the air it gained.
I let it rise again for another hour while my oven was preheating but it only got back to about 70% of its previous size. it's wet because I was worried about the outside drying out and limiting how much it could expand but I accidentally sprinkled too much water on it.
I once forgot to add the yeast, was very sad.
this time it's a dome instead of a disc. you can see I messed up scoring it. it seems a little denser and less flaky too. don't know what I need to do different.
>>22253576>don't know what I need to do differentIt depends what kind of bread you want.Its bread and its suitably round and smooth.Does it taste good?-Try inclusions like walnuts and raisins-milk instead of water-add an egg-sweetener-make multi-grain blends-learn sourdough
>>22250617I use a dough whisk (now). I used to use a silicone spatula until like a week ago (when I bought the dough whisk). Are you autolysing/fermentolysing after mixing? Do you finger fuck your dough? You have to finger fuck it every 30 mins for a couple hours to build the gluten. I would also suggest Kang Arfur Bred Flur.
>>22253612it was ok. I just wanted a crusty dinner roll to eat with the stew I made.other times I've tried to make bread was for sandwiches and was similarly unsuccessful.>>22253662>Are you autolysing/fermentolysing after mixing?I don't even know what this is
>>22253725Mix your dough, water, yeast, and salt and let it sit for an hour. Then you finger fuck it every 30 mins. High hydration dough is a slack mess without finger fucking to build the gluten. You will know when it’s right because it gets noticeably tighter by the second round of finger fucking.
>>22250507>is there a trick do doing this without losing all of the volume gained during proofing?You shape it before proofing and you are not trying to get much volume during proofing, you just want some gas to build up in there because gas conducts heat better than dough. The proof is done once the dough looks puffy, the dough gets its full volume from the oven spring. If you let the shaped loaf sit until it has risen to full size before going into the oven it will almost certainly collapse. I would give up on using the calculator and just follow a good recipe to get the basics down.
>>22254027do I do this before proofing or is it happening at the same time.>>22254045so I should be dropping it right out of my container without trying to reshape it?
>>22253576Looks like a dinner roll. No need to score, just put multiple balls side by side to make it rise upwards. Also try milk and tangzhong/yudane to make it softer
>>22254728I want to make a single softball size roll with a flaky crust and airy crumb
>>22250152This 450degree oven takes longer to get to 450degrees since it was at 450degrees for less then 30seconds
