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>>153874511
>all the setup for the finale is introduced in the finale itself rather than being built up in the show
>zero permanent consequences or status quo changes compared to pre-finale

Why are either of these a problem? The former is because it's a procedural and episodes would be aired again, likely out of order, as reruns, so setting up the finale would add serial drama into the last season for no reason. And the status quo change of the finale is that Bill was defeated and Mable and Dipper go back home. What more do you want?

>>153874676
NTA but literally ending on status quo in your series finale where the entire town mandates they never speak of it again was genuinely insulting. This is the same show where the creator, even during the first season when they had to be more episodic, wanted to reward the audience with continuity the best he could with lingering artifacts from past adventures. The big finale where the entire town is forced to reconcile with their reality and they still just permanently handwave it and mandate it never be acknowledged again is some fucking bullshit and really pathetic.

>>153874511
Honestly I'm more surprised people don't talk about how Dipper and Mabel don't really do anything in the finale itself. Like the actual last episode. They run around for awhile until Stan and Ford do their trickery. At best they pranced around just long enough for them to do it in secret, and Mabel forced Stan's memory back in 2 minutes.

This seems to be a real complication for series finales. Regular Show's actual final episode gave the rest of the main crew someone else to battle for a bit but then the last half of the episode none of them speak a single line aside from Pops, Mordecai, and Rigby. Ultimately what the gang WERE doing was pointless anyway because regardless of if they defeated Streaming, Anti Pops still wiped the entire planet and galaxy and only Mordo and Rigs did anything by getting inside the glitch.

Adventure Time notoriously did not give an actual fuck about finding something for Finn and Jake to do at all.

>>153874676
>Why are either of these a problem?
Because a finale is supposed to be a culmination of the story and a way to conclude all the arcs, if you don't tie it into the story so far and don't conclude any arcs then it's just any random episode, which makes it a meh finale

>The former is because it's a procedural and episodes would be aired again, likely out of order, as reruns, so setting up the finale would add serial drama into the last season for no reason.
You can do both, for example you could have the fact that Stan can imitate Ford's voice perfectly be part of an earlier standalone episode before pulling it out of your ass in the finale

>And the status quo change of the finale is that Bill was defeated and Mable and Dipper go back home. What more do you want?
That's not the status quo change, that's the status quo, throughout the whole series the expectation is that Mable and Dipper will complete their summer vacation and go back home, and after the finale they.. complete their summer vacation and go back home, nothing changes

They try to pull a last minute arc with Dipper wanting to stay with Ford but it's meaningless with how late it's introduced and how quickly it's resolved, now if the whole show was set up around Dipper always wanting to stay and Mable spending the whole show trying to dissuade him so he would go back her, then both of them going back after the finale would be a meaningful arc

I wouldn't say any of it is bad, it's just definitely not the gold standard for lore show finales

>>153875307
>You can do both, for example you could have the fact that Stan can imitate Ford's voice perfectly be part of an earlier standalone episode before pulling it out of your ass in the finale
What's sad is in hindsight there easily could've been a gag where he mocks Ford and noticeably does that voice. Would've been a great soft tease. I get how not all of that comes to you when writing your story as you go, and I don't think this needed as much setup/payoff as other things the finale was lacking, but it'd have been pretty cool. And in that case it would have at least had something pay off since the big wheel thing was a bust and so was teasing the town's fragility to their reality building up only to have them force to deal with it all at once, and handwaving it perfectly with no damages and a law stating you can't even allude to it ever again like some episodic cartoon.

>>153874511
Cartoon fans are immature as fuck.
>WHERE IS THE BLOOD WHERE IS THE DRAMA, THE BAD GUY DOES NOT OPERATE TO 100% EFFICIENCY IT'S BAD WRITING, SOOS DOES NOT EVEN GET A COOL SCAR

>>153875351
Nice cope

>>153875351
Funny projection given that no one brought up any of that, if you read the thread you can see it's about basic storytelling principles and not blood, scars, or violence

>>153874511
Something that bugged me in the ending to Dipper and Mabel Vs the Future was that they went all in on the dramatic sound effects including helicopters. It made it sound like it was already becoming a big deal and people were flying in to handle it. Instead it's revealed awhile later that it's just confined to the town. Like this was just a random thing but it bugged me how it made it seem more dramatic than it ended up being. I don't even think Gravity Falls police have helicopters. I just looked it up and found a comment from 11 years ago (jesus) and people were wondering if it was powers and trigger, so I guess I wasn't the only one who assumed it wasn't confined to the town because of it.

>>153874511
>Bill "wins" but all he does is dawdle and do wacky stuff instead of killing everyone instantly
thats on track with his character, where he prefers to play around with people instead of just vaporize them

>Bill stops using his far reaching omnipotent powers so he could chase the twins on foot
because he was playing around, like he always does

>the series-long mystery is irrelevant, Bill is defeated by cartoony logic that was never a factor before
the amnesia gun was set up in an earlier episode and was designed by mcgucket, who was fords former friend while also being part of two plot-critical episodes
of all the gadgets-of-the-week, this one was the one that deserved to be used on bill the most

>>153875363
>>153875373
Y'all want the Hunger Games to happen at the end of every cartoon and forget basic tone shit like that it's a Twin Peaks parody written by ex-Simpsons staff. And I was answering to the OP which is the usual "why does the villain make le mistakes" crap, I don't care what the comments add.

>>153875431
he wasn't playing around, he was furious and desperate. the amnesia gun was never a factor for Bill. It was a mcgucket thing he used on himself because he was hecking traumatised and wanted to forget stuff as therapy. And then other people used it to forget stupid gag shit like bad boyfriends.
Something that "deserved to be used on bill the most" should be something from the fucking Journal, not something Mcgucket made to forget Ex Boyfriends with

>>153875463
If it's going to be held up as "the gold standard finale for lore cartoons" then yes I expect something extraordinary

>>153875463
>y'all
Back with ye, tranny faggot

>>153875472
>the amnesia gun was never a factor for Bill.
but of all the inventions used in the show, it was used in plot critical moments twice before and was invented by a character who himself had significant screen time
it makes more sense to use that to defeat bill than anything else

>>153875508
>it makes more sense to use that to defeat bill than anything else
they should have put the president key up his ass

>>153875508
they literally introduced a magic circle that's actually in the Journals written by Ford, and actually hinted at through clues throughout the whole series, just to defeat Bill.
No, an invention used by a sidecharacter who did not even meet Bill in the past, in a "plot critical moment" ie to erase Mabel's memory of her ex boyfriends, is not sensible to use. Mcgucket who never met Bill making it for a completely different reason doesn't make it a good Deus Ex Machina any more than one of Mcgucket's turds would be.

Bill was a terrible final villain; he was better when he was a one-episode character.

>>153875826
Blame Hirsch coming up with everything in season 1 through all-nighters up to the final deadlines. He planned for Bill to be a supporting antagonist who just liked to toy with everyone with his knowledge, but then it felt more forced how he had to exist as a final boss despite all that knowledge and still loose and be incompetent.

>>153875246
Is just not talking about it hardly inconsequential

>>153876526
It just feels pathetic to have your lore show end on a finale with a peachy "and we'll never discuss it again" ending like a fucking simpsons episode. There's no reason they had to do that.

>>153874511
I stopped caring for this show long ago

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>>153876604
What made you stop caring about Gravity Falls, anon... ?

>>153875246
"Let's just not talk about this" actually does make sense, as we see many of the residents of Gravity Falls have experienced weird things but keep them quiet even during the series. Seems like common sense, culturally, for the people of Gravity Falls to ignore Wierdmageddon and just get on with life.

>>153875334
>And in that case it would have at least had something pay off since the big wheel thing was a bust
This was the worst offender of all. They teased it throughout the whole series just to be a nothingburger.

>>153875663
They didn't even explain how the circle worked. It just did and that's it. That's lazy writing if you ask me.

>>153875826
Glad I'm not the first to think this

I honestly think most people just saw it when they were impressionable kids and forgot how actually meh it was, both TOH and Amphibia have better finales

>>153878281
Hirsch shouldn't have made it a prophecy/"they can beat me" wheel if he didn't plan on doing anything with it in the same episode. Just do something more broad like "the lives of those these symbols represent are fated to do something big", because obviously he admitted to not planning the wheel thing from the start and it was just something cool for the opening, but choosing to make it a big thing in the finale that goes nowhere is worse than just making it mean "this cast is special in some way" whiich ultimately would still tie into how they worked together to deal with Bill. They didn't need to do the circle hand holding thing and it'd have been better if it was more broad like that with generalized payoff over none at all.

>>153875826
It is pretty well known that season 2 was rushed as fuck and every episode has like 3 episodes worth of content crammed into each one.

>>153875826
The writers really did fuck themselves over when they decided to have the omnipotent trickster focus on winning. Those characters like the horse show one and Him from PPG work when they're focused on playing games with the characters and not just immediate victory. There was no logical way he should've lost after starting weirdmageddon

>>153875826
Bill being the final villain is like if Mr. Morden were the main antagonist of Babylon 5. He's certainly a good character but he kinda makes the setting feel small by being the big bad.

>>153882157
The only way to make sense with an ending villain like that is to find some blindspot in his omnipotence, and since this is the kind of show where magic exists and an apocalpyse can be contained in a "weirdness magnetism" dome, I feel like they should've tried for something like that where they accomplish a plan leading him out of his knowledge. Or hell if that's too difficult just do the "I can see all possible futures" thing and have him lack focus trying to figure out the bubble shit so he can't see the signs of which rebellion is coming. Though even then someone like Bill and a reality altered hellscape should be able to account for anything and not just be a frat house he sits around in drinking. No defenses at all. Not a single one other than himself if he's there to pay attention.

>>153880348
Debunked, there are a lot of people who react to gravity falls on youtube who think the finale is great, stop /co/ping

>>153874511
Thats the point of chaos or trickery characters
It isn't a hobby of theirs it is an undeniable nature that takes over their existence.

>>153885526
It hits the emotional beats when you watch it regardless of when you do it, I'm talking about objectively ranking it as a "lore show" finale

>>153874511
>no one, not even the maipulative demon, acknowledges mabel caused the apocalypse
while it would've been good for dipper to actually call her out on her selfishness for all the grief he's been given for every imperfect thought ever, all they really had to do was have bill get angry with them running him rabid and lord this reveal over them and drop it to make them get at each other, and then because of the shitty mabelland episode, they move past it quick enough through their bond and understanding that was reinvigorated last episode.

instead she just gets away with causing the worst thing in the show. dipper can get contacts from girls on a road trip and be derided for it and have to result to self-mockery for forgiveness, but they don't hold this type of standard to a female character who accidentally destroyed the town and almost killed the universe because of her selfish desires and giving away an object that wasn't hers.

would've made the shitty mabel land episode worth something instead of it only existing to convince mabel to help solve the apocalypse she started, if they'd used that reinvigorated bond to handle bill revealing she caused it and an excuse to not dwell on it by that point.

WE'LL

MEET AGAIN

It's increasingly rare that a show sticks the landing.

But Hirsch deserves some extra ass whips for it, because he allegedly had this planned all along.

The main thing that annoyed me was Stan's sacrifice losing his memories, only to apparently immediately get them back by ... talking to the twins?

The wheel was bullshit too. "Oh she's the ice bag because she's ~COOL~" I guess it's my own fault because prophecies are just really lame and shitty and never happen in a satisfying way. Why Amphibia needed one (plus a half dozen other anime elements all crammed in at the last minute,) I don't know.

>>153875472
>Something that "deserved to be used on bill the most" should be something from the fucking Journal, not something Mcgucket made to forget Ex Boyfriends with
Use your brain, anon. If it’s in the journal, it would be known about by Ford. He would have tried to use this hypothetical solution because it’s something he wrote in the journal.

>>153881369
NOT TO MENTION they had like three or four ways to defeat Bill. Didn't Ford literally have a gun that would blast him out of our reality forever and Bill just dodged/destroyed it?

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>>153874511
>Bill stops using his far reaching omnipotent powers so he could chase the twins on foot
That's just what happens when you make your Big Bad an omnipotent being who needs to be defeated by regular humans. He's gotta be nerfed somehow.

>>153888486
>Stan's sacrifice losing his memories, only to apparently immediately get them back
If they let him stay mindwiped it would've been kino

>>153874676
Lol I love this shot from the intro being used as a reaction image, it's so effective

>>153874511
Gravity Falls as a show is awful to begin with. 70% of the episodes are cringe-fests focusing on Dipper’s overly drawn out socially awkward simping of Wendy or Mabel being a serial romantic with no standards falling for any dude who breathes while failing to get any of them. A vast majority of the show is this cringe-inducing bullshit, and then every now & then they drop a secret or a lore hint to build hype for the next episode & hope you forget the fact the whole show is just awkward melodrama.