Yesterday was Peter Parker's terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day>previous threadshttps://pastebin.com/EXE0WayL
Y'alright there?
>>153885201I was doin' stuff
So how long does Peter hang around stage 1 of 5?
>>153885309Where do you draw the line between denial and pattern recognition?
Rookie hobo mistake
>>153885208And just last thread people were saying, "Hey, at least he's not sick again."
>>153885635Well, what was he supposed to do, make a web shopping cart? Crawl up to a rooftop where nobody could steal from him?
What could possibly go wrong?
Is this the first time we've seen "the webshooter take 100lbs of pressure to activate" or whatever?
>>153886078I think so. I thought the whole point was that it took a double tap with a specific amount of pressure so that it didn't accidentally go off all the time
>>153886151It's no bag man I'll tell you that
About a half hour ago I put together the theory that this is just crazy Norman Osborn who's crazied himself in amnesia
I was close
What the fuck.
>>153886151It's the Terrific Tarp-Man!
>>153886222The fuck is this shit
>>153886264>Look I know your wife just died and before that you had a miscarriage and your cousin died>So I can't be friends with you because you're bad luckLiz don't be such a bitch. Also Peter's Normie's Godfather and you can't undo that
I don't believe I've had one of those nights, noBut I also don't suffer from sleep paralysis
>>153885528I don't think this is Norman, but it could be. It just better not be another fucking Jack O Lantern. Also, I forgot, did we ever find out what Jack#2's deal was? I may have missed a thread, but all I remember was him working for a shadowy figure and then losing his shit when he found out it was Osborn
>>153886415I don't think we've seen him since Identity Crisis.
>>153886151The Kolorful Klansman!
Looking a little rough there, May
>>153886078There is some logic to making it need a lot of force, but I'm sure someone else must have used them before now. I know years from now, Deadpool will use them and almost lose his arms because of the force of web swinging.
>>153886488Wow, an actually bulky Venom! It's been a while.
>>153886151Can't wait for people to spend money on this skin in Rivals.
>>153886222I mean, is this any worse than Harry setting up a digital clone of Norman that was served by 3 sexy female green goblin robots?
That's unfortunate
>>153886542She looks ready to die again.
>>153886689>you are scaring my wife, so time to dieThe irony of fucking VENOM to say that.
Well.
>>153885320>hairstyleEww...>>153885508Man. An adaptation with Peter and Randy would be so soulful. Fucking Disney and their placation of China. This is the one time where a black friend would actually be fun. >>153885568>Nick Lowe perks upNani? This is almost like that one time....whoa....surely this is brainwashing readers into buying more books. Nostalgia about one hyperspecific story being repeated again....>>153886759What a shit way to force him to be a villain again. Also....she's basically dead forever now because of this. Such a bullshit waste of a character. We could've had way more appearances of She-Venom.....
>>153886759She died before she could tell Eddie that he has a son who is now with Eddie's father and that son may or may not actually be Venom's son and not Eddies.
>>153886788I checked and apparently she comes back in, like, 2019? With a few spotty appearances throughout the 20s so far?
>>153886833>I checked and apparently she comes back in, like, 2019That's all either the alternative universe version of her, or maybe a flashback to having Venom's secret child.
>>153886833>2019 It's just a flashback. She's still dead and there is an AU version of her that isn't interesting or hot.
>>153886862Yeah this page is based because it actually feels like an apology for this gay as hell arc of her "being dead." Looks like good material to use to backhand any BND faggots with their own comics and show that if death doesn't matter as much, MJ is a loce interest that we have to vote with our wallets, than we have just as much justification to want MJ rather than them not wanting MJ. And Ult's recent sales prove that. The next time they show up to a convention they will quite literally get verbally raped by how many things have proven them wrong and how backed into a corner they are. The Lowe and Brevoort tactics don't workn anymore. Anyway, a large fuck-off poster of your nude wife is pretty baller to have in your apartment.>>153886896Bruh wait until they hear about digital downloads.
>>153887083This box sure is a mystery
Oh I thought it would start to click for him, but I see we're doing this the long and hard way
>>153887183Oh hey, didn't expect Gayle, thought they just forgot about her
Alright, come back tomorrow so we can all find out what was in the box!>>153887232Yeah that's almost a deep pull at this point, but I'm seeing that this is her very last appearance
>>153886918Is there an archive of whatever web page the comic is telling us to check out?
>>153887275Thanks for storytiming, Magister!
>>153887275Thanks Magister. Yeah they basically pretend that MJ's family doesn't exist anymore. Even Anna barely shows up
>>153887183these guys are gonna look real dumb when MJ shows up alive
>>153887275>but I'm seeing that this is her very last appearanceSo, she wasn't in Death Spiral. Huh, that seems like an easy shock kill for that book.
>>153887183Betty you were in way deeper denial and delusion than Peter. You saw the body, at least MJ's was never found
>>153887377They had a different shocker kill in mind instead
>>153887320Holy fuck I hate modern Marvel.
>>153887745In a way, it's better that they're spared from this status quo.
>>153887183I want to believe that Kristy is here to find out what Mattie did and get into a fight about it. It won't happen, but I want to believe.
>>153887754I guess so.>>153887808Hmm...who should Kristy get with? Would she be a nice counter to a character like Dylan Brock? Marvel's fucky timeline and ages makes me hesitate as I don't know if that would work but I dunno Kristy is interesting to me because I checked out early Venom stories and seeing alongside Nathan made me want to see that fun group alongside May to appear more often.
>>153886929Yeah, but her son later gets adopted by a woman who becomes Venom. That's pretty much the same thing, right?
>>153887848Wilson Fisk
>>153888301Hmm... swap Wilson for Richard and that could actually be a fun 80's movie premise or a comic premise either as a comedy or as a drama or both. Keep Kristy a normal civilian and have Richard be the suave guy who sweeps her off her feet but has a secret and we already know what that is.But yeah she would need to be older than she already is.>>153887852Don't fucking bring up ANV. I mean I like She-VenoMJ but that whole arc was euch dogshit from beginning to end. And only now has she gotten to be a She-Venom (design still sucks massively and is huge wasted potential with how it was executed and done at the worst possible time).
>>153887848I don't like pairing her with anyone romantically.
>>153889177if they bring Kristy in they will definitly make her a lesbian.
>>153885297I'm reminded of Otto showering in Aunt May's home thinking how great she is.
>>153886308I remember back when this issue was out people were pissed at the way Flash and Liz were at this timeIt felt almost like when Chapter One happened it reset their personalities to match the past Chapter One versions and not what we knew since
>>153889177>>153889686Eh. I think her prior personality could mean she now has matured and is not as horny but also at the same time that was kinda her gimmick so I at least would want her to get at least one guy.
>>153886748>Spidey just swings away from a woman screaming.
>>153886222Typical laziest answert for a lingering mystery that doesn't even work with how this fake Goblin acted before.
>>153887275>so we can all find out what was in the box!Yeah about that.
>>153886173>>153886195>>153886222>>153886263DeFalco and DeMatties, depending on who you believe, intended the stand in Green Goblin that Norman was using to deflect suspicion of him being GG to either be Flash Thompson or Phil Ulrich ie the heroic Green Goblin. The arrival of Byrne and DeFalco getting put on a containment book IE Spider Girl while Mackie got to be Byrne's bitch Boy meant that the pay off never happened as Byrne hated Phil and wanted Flash to just be an evil bully not a super villain. And Mackie being a hack who always thought Mystery Box stories should never be solved and that fans who demand answers should be trolled instead of being given good resolutions to such things.So the mystery Green Goblin was a fucking changeling clone who came back solely to melt into a puddle because fuck you that's why.
>>153886415Mad Jack was Denny Berkhardt, the second Mysterio who would turn out to be MJ's Aunt's former lover. Sadly DeMatties never got around to revealing this himself as the entire plot got axed by Norman's return, but gets resolved in the Mysterio Waltz mini (where it was the only thing that really got resolved in that mini)
>>153886293Fun fact: this story plus Erik Larsen drawing the issues around this time, was a huge ultra desperation move to try and boost sales after Byrne and Mackie killed sales on the Spidey books, especially after MJ was killed off.Larsen only agreed to come back if he could kill off Venom's wife as he despised Venom as a hero as well as Michelinie's original Venom motive for being evil. He also did an equally cringy issue of Venom that retconned Eddie having a sister who was mortally wounded as a bystander to a Nova fight that Donny Cates retconned as being not real/Eddie being temporarily insane around this time to hand wave Erik's character assassination of Eddie
>>153892653I wonder if Flash being the fake Goblin connects to this cliffhanger that they never bothered to follow up on.
>>153886222>so you wanted to know who the new Green Goblin was?>screw you for caring, that's who he wasThere was a hell of a lot of this kind of thing going on in Marvel with dangling mysteries left over from previous writers and previous runs where there was nobody left who cared about the plot, and nobody with the basic professionalism to give the plot a resolution anyone who was enjoying the story might possibly enjoy. It's not even the first time it happened in the Spidey books, the Judas Traveller and Scrier resolution was about 3 years before that, and done by people you'd expect better from.But considering the original plan for this Goblin was for it to be Phil Urich, at least it wasn't that. What kind of evil retard would turn that guy into a villain?
>>153886415That was Jack #3, or Mad Jack. #2 first showed up in early 90s Captain America, and up to where we are now, has had one run-in with Ben in the issue of Unlimited that resolved the plot about the skeleton from the smokestack.>>153892681That's where things end up, but the getting there was a lot more complicated. By the time Marvel wanted to resolve who Mad Jack was, JMD admitted he'd completely forgotten who it was going to be, leaving DeFalco to come up with something. The mini DeFalco wrote had Danny Berkhart be a mid-story red-herring, and Mad Jack actually unmasked as Maguire Beck, Mysterio's never seen before OC cousin, Mysterio had set her up with her own supervillain identity before he'd died, and she'd been impersonating him in these modern stories. Maguire spent the whole mini monologuing to a supposedly empty Mysterio costume, and Daredevil is around to confirm she's telling the truth that as far as she knows, Mysterio is really dead, and that she had no idea what had really happened to Berkhart since his one previous 1970s story. But then after everyone leaves it turns out there was someone in the Mysterio costume all along.A Marvel handbook later retconned the hell out of this mini and said that Berkhart was Mad Jack until Mysterio's death, then he took over as the new Mysterio, and Maguire became the new Mad Jack. All of which is something that if Marvel did want to canonize, should surely have been done in an actual comic story, not a handbook.
>>153885605Batman's going to sue you, Gobbo!
>>153886114Good thing you send the darkie away, Grand Dragon
>>153886620Come on, a little symbiosis can't be that bad
>>153886678>>153886689>Parker HATES IT when I get the drop on him
>>153892700What would be a good motivation for Eddie then?
>>153894205Dunno. Has to be some reason for him to want revenge on Peter and/or Spider-Man. Perhaps the journalistic angle can be a starting point where him being discredited regarding Sin-Eater puts him on Peter's radar. Thus, Peter investigates Eddie more and finds out about his drunk driving incident and his lackluster journalism record. Perhaps he anonymously informs Eddie's employer so that he is fired. After getting fired, Eddie also puts together a news show that is controversial and successful but Spider-Man takes out some radicals influenced by it and further discredits Eddie through also influencing Ravencroft and other places to deem him unfit to be credible. Not sure what else could be come up with. I'm kinda bad with thinking of motivations for Eddie.
>>153893572>I HATE IT when he gets the drop on me!
>>153892738I always figured this tied into Mysterio's Perfect World scheme few storytimes back.
>>153894493In a way I've always liked that it really wasn't Eddie but the symbiote out to kill Spider-Man. Like yeah sure Spider-Man catching the real Sin-Eater destroyed his journalist career but that's on him gassing up the fake Sin-Eater in the news. Like how he keeps shooting himself in the leg in TAS and blaming Spider-Man for it. Now Venom itself has a more deeper personal hatred towards Spider-Man, Eddie is just a vessel the suit needs to exact it's vengeance.
>>153893572>>153894905
>>153895172I feel it needs to be both of them bringing out the worst of each other for Venom. Eddie would be simply self-destructive on his own, and the alien costume while full of confusing painful emotions lacks direction beyond trying to bond again.
>>153894205In and of itself, Eddie's motivation is not exceptionally bad: he's a guy who screwed up and suffered for it, and he's willing to blame everyone but himself for it. There are no shortage of villains just like him. The execution, though, that was bad.
>>153892959>leaving DeFalco to come up with somethingHow many times did this happen?
>>153892959Reread Mysterio Waltz.It explicitly states that Danny Berkhardt was Mad Jack and that Maguire Beck was not. Maguire was Quentin's female cousin who was behind all of Quentin's appearances in the Byrne run via robot stand ins for her cousin (hence why Mysterio kept killing himself in the Byrne/Mackie run after the real Quentin offed himself). Then muddied the water by having one of the Quentin robots turn out to be alive, implying that Maguire was lying about Quentin still being dead and led to the embargoed on using Mysterio until Smith was made to create a new one years later
>>153887220This might be more convincing if she didn't bring up the parents who died, then came back, then were robots.Of if it came from someone other than the lady who died at a nursing home, but that was actually a Mysterio thing, then died again, but that was actually an actress.Or if this wasn't the era of inexplicable resurrections and reversions of status quo.Man, this subplot is just asinine. Even if they intended to keep MJ dead, it's asinine.
>>153895468>Reread Mysterio Waltz.>It explicitly states that Danny Berkhardt was Mad Jack and that Maguire Beck was not.Whatever "Mysterio Waltz" is, it's not "The Mysterio Manifesto", the mini that first unmasked Mad Jack, and explicitly had Maguire state she had no idea what had happened to Berkhart, she just had a robot fake of him for a mid-story red herring. Everything about Berkhart being the real Mad Jack came from a Handbook released after that mini.
>>153895274>HURRY UP PARKERhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQpm4_zv3Wo
>ask about Jack>all the answers are tied up in the gordian knot of post-Daredevil Mysterio loreShould have seen that coming.
>>153895286>>153895400Yeah I struggle to come up with a new reason though for Eddie to hate Spider-Man. But how do you do so without making Eddie a retread of Scorpion, giving him the reason for revenge, and making it unique? Perhaps, Sin-Eater being seen as in league with Spider-Man a la Electro or Mysterio when they were seen as heroes by Jameson could lead to such an idea. Perhaps Sin-Eater killing a friend or relative of Eddie's causing him to be blinded by hate for Sin-Eater, reports on him wrongly, and when Spider-Man reveals the truth there might be some event or some mishap that happens that accidentally causes Spider-Man to appear in the wrong. Maybe it's when he is about to kill Sin-Eater, DD stops him but people only see Spidey make an attempt on someone's life, either Sin-Eater or on Eddie's own friend/relative. Eddie already being distraught could see this all as a conspiracy and also be goaded on by the symbiote and maybe some blackmail about his story not being true. I dunno. Just spitballin' again.
>>153898745The fact that his motive is stupid is kinda the point. In many ways, it's a warped mirror of Peter's own motive.Peter's whole thing is that he didn't stop a crime one time, and, because of that, the criminal killed somebody. He knows, with certainty, that Uncle Ben would be alive if he had just acted; therefore, he must accept responsibility. Eddie, on the other hand, insists that, if Spider-Man hadn't stopped a criminal from killing people, things would've worked out okay. It's delusion that requires an insane serial killer acting in a very convenient way and an innocent man to take the rap for it. It's blatant nonsense that he adopts to avoid taking responsibility. Everything he does from there comes from that. Accepting responsibility versus refusing responsibility, that's the core of their difference.
>>153884977This whole era is a very strange gap in my Spider-man library. I kind of clocked out during that whole clone mess and sort of came back during BND, not so much for enjoyment but like you get called to identify a dead relative.
>>153900166It's a gap for a lot of people because this was produced at a time when comic sales as a whole fell and were believed to be at their lowest, with the fear that it could get lower in the next year, so there weren't a lot of people buying or reading this (this was also before comic piracy got easier).Then Quesada took over and the way it was they basically didn't want you needing to have to read too many old comics so they tried to avoid any callbacks to this era, especially since it wasn't popular to begin with and Quesada had a grudge against Byrne
>>153900313for as much as people say marvel doesn't reboot like DC does the way post Quesada Marvel feels they may as well have
>>153900102I think that makes sense but in that chain of blame, it still feels dumb to the reader that he so conveniently lands on Spider-Man to blame. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a personal motivation perspective and from a POV of just finding out about this guy now. It would make sense if he simply kept blaming Spider-Man to other people as an excuse but Eddie suddenly turning insane and going out of his way to attack him for revenge isn't jiving with the indirectness. I know criminals are irrational. But I think most would say what he did doesn't even make sense in that context. It makes more sense when adaptations show him finding out through the symbiote that they are the same person and both times he was wronged by both. Which gives more credence to him being conspired against and seeking revenge. They kinda do that once Eddie fights him and shows up to his house.But yes, that's cool how you pointed out that idea where it's the opposite of Peter's origin in that sense where Eddie wanted the inaction and it didn't happen that way. That's a good idea to keep. I dunno I remember as a kid reading this comic just fine in a TPB and not finding it too flimsy but over time, it does seem a bit of a weak motive to do all this.
>>153900964It's fine. He can hang out with Lady Deathstrike in cool people with dumb motivations.
A big issue with Venom is that he's somehow both TOO BIG and TOO SMALL of a threat. Anytime he shows up for a fight is an all out brutal fight for survival that Spidey barely gets by. But he's also just really petty and small and doesn't have any ambition or goals. He's not a master schemer with great plans and he's not some career hood looking for a score. Him hanging around Pete's friends and loved ones was spooky the first couple of times but it got old. There really isn't that many kinds of stories you can tell with this kind of character.
>>153901928Spider-Man could stalk Venom's loved ones to make it even.
>>153901928The symbiote was in a sympathetic position if you thought about it more and Eddie's motivation as well as his desire to punish Spider-Man kinda lent itself well to becoming an anti-hero. That and how popular he was. That was good route to take him. But for villain stories, I think Venom being an influence on the youth, addicting people to symbiotes, and becoming a combo of Jonah and GG would be interesting. A presence that slowly turns Peter's loved ones against him instead of attacking them directly. Would make sense for a Venom that wants Peter to feel as alone as it was when it got rejected. Surprised no writer has done this and it shows how fucking retarded Marvel is.
>>153886587damn shes stacked
>>153900618I'd argue that starts a fair bit earlier, at least when it comes to Spider-Man. I can't explain this well, but what sticks out to me is the housing situation. Things go from "this is how Peter Parker would live in this location" to "this is where Peter Parker will be staying until we shuffling him around again". Now, not all the old ones can have wooden Indian-levels of personality, but they at least felt like places he could live. Even Ben had that cute bonding moment with Peter where he showed him the little window he could use to crawl outside without being seen.I can't remember a damn thing about the place he started Byrne's run in. The most personality has been >>153886862, and that's just a tool to hammer the blatant point home a bit more. There's just an all-around carelessness to how Pete's life is depicted; none of it really matters, because he it's never intended to last. He can't move forward anymore, only back to the same nowhere with a new coat of paint. How he lives doesn't matter, just that it sucks.
>>153902167Not entirely the same, since he goes more in the other direction, but I like how Reign did it. Of course, how much of Eddie is left there is anyone's guess.
>>153892653I'm trying to remember the Green Goblin stories from the past. Wasn't it already shown Norman had a fake Green Goblin that melted or something when working with a doctor to make it seem like he and Green Goblin were different people by having him kidnap Normie?
