I'm assuming all Green Lanterns are level 1 on pic related?Has aphantasia been described as a crucial element in any of the comics?
Unrelated but it's really creepy how similar AI generated images are to the images I conjure in my head, like how close they are to reality but both have this eery way of moving to them. Funny haha npc jokes aside why the fuck could that be the case?
>>153891567Do people actually see it clearly. The only time I can visualize clearly is when I'm having a dream, but even that's fuzzy unless I'm lucid.
>>153891567The pictures for 2 and 3 are swapped.
>>153891567I think John Stewart is supposed to not really have an imagination
>>153891676Yes. And I was shocked to find out that some people can’t just vividly imagine images or sounds.
>>153892012It seems weird if people actually can't play back part of a movie scene in their memory at least. People who have aphantasia, can you really not picture the actors' faces and stuff when thinking back on an important scene?
>>153892051I don't mean perfectly necessarily, but I'm curious if they can't remember even bits of how things like how Walt looked in this important scene.
>>153892012>or sounds.Yeah, the idea of people who don't get music stuck in their head ever is bizarre to me.
>>153892093some people don't have internal thoughts, or, at the very least, can't hear themselves thinking
I must have aphantasia. I can imagine an apple, like its shape, color, the texture of its highlight, etc., but I can't literally see it when I close my eyes. Are there people that actually literally see the things they're thinking about when they close their eyes?
>>153892051I’m convinced that’s how some people are able to speed read. https://youtu.be/RiVHQ8VgvtEThey’re not building the scenes and characters and playing out the moments in their imaginations as they read about them. They just understand what the words mean and digest the information. I can’t imagine reading a book without it playing in my mind like a movie. I assume that’s the case with most people, which makes me wonder how common or rare aphantasia is?
>>153892205This is where I wonder if it's just a matter of not defining things properly.No matter how vividly you can imagine an apple in your mind, it's not 100% identical to the experience of seeing it in front of you. If you can see that red color in your mind, then that's what other people are talking about.Otherwise, what do you mean by "I can imagine the color" if you couldn't picture the color in your thoughts?
>>153892205“See” is abstract. It’s really more “vividly imagine”. There’s not like a hallucination where suddenly it’s not dark and you see an apple in a lit room. You can just vividly imagine one.
it's pretty freaky and cool how you don't have a specific thing you should do to make it work, it's not like you have to build the apple in your head bit by bit and alter its shape and color until you get it right, you just think apple and boom and any other modification to it is just as easy
>>153892250Apparently people who can’t picture the object simply imagine the printed word. Same when talking about their friend. They won’t imagine their friend’s face, they just “see” the name printed.
>>153892205When it says you "see" a thing in your imagination it doesn't mean literally hallucinate a signal of a thing appearing in your visual cortex.Personally, when I imagine a visual, it almost feels like it appears behind my eyes and slightly up, towards the top of my head. Imagining sounds happens slightly lower for speech, or towards the sides for music.
I can visualize most things, but I have face blindness when it omes to most people that aren't my family.
>>153892427That's not an uncommon symptom of the 'tism. Have you gotten screened?
>>153892824Ohh it's way too late for me.
>>153891597Because ai is our attempt at quantum computing. The strongest computers we know of atm are actually our own brains. An ai apple is uncannily similar to what you see in your mind because your mind is its own computer
The weirdest part of people who have phantasia is they cant imagine in their mind not being an asshole to people with aphantasia.Go figure, all that creativity and you cant whip up some fucking kindnese
>>153892012>>153891676Man it's weird, i used to be able to do this as a kid and teenager. In fact i'd say i constantly daydreamed to pass the time back then, it was so vivid and real but now it's sort of there but i can still feel like im physically in real life, almost faded.Kinda sucks, i kinda miss those sex fantasies with celebrities while on the bus ride home as a teen.
>>153892012It's only shocking because it's not real.>>153892205That's what they mean, nobody has it a different way, it's in your "mind's eye" not literal hallucinations unless you're dreaming. That's how it works for every person on Earth which is why Aphantasia is a fake phenomenon made up.
>>153891685right? it's killing me.
>>153892932>The strongest computers we know of atm are actually our own brainswhich is why the porno I imagine is better than the one on the screen
>>153892012>>153892051Images exist as lists of attributes in my head. I know that the apple is red, has a dull shine, feels a certain way in your hand, has a certain shape and size. But I can't picture it. However my dreams are vivid enough that I believe they are real when I'm dreaming, and I can replay music in my head just fine.
I more get vibes from the idea of the image. I don't visualize anything super clearly in my head. But the vibes fill in the blanks in a way that almost feels like vision. I dream vividly. And my mind makes up these fake languages in the dream that are somehow coherent. And not only can I replay almost anything in my head, I can change the pitch, edit the tune, manipulate the tempo, imagine it with different voices. I'm also always thinking of original music. But I'm not a musician and don't know notation. So it's basically meaningless.
Isn't it weird how these "I can imagine anything I want perfectly in my head like I'm looking at an image!" niggas are incapable of drawing? Practically anybody can learn to competently copy an existing image after a few weeks of learning to draw, but drawing fully from imagination is an exceptionally rare skill.I expect most people are deluding themselves about this. Do a test just for yourself and don't cheat- draw a famous person from your imagination, then look up a picture and draw them.
If I think about the taste of an apple I can "taste" itIf I think about the sound of the crunch, I can "hear" itIf I think about what an apple looks like, I just know what an apple looks like, I wouldn't say I "see" it
>>153891567I thought I was 1, but whenever I try to 'zoom in' for detail it loses clarity. Like I can imagine what an apple should look like, including highlights and texture, but if I want to draw it and think about a specific part very closely, I lose it.
>>153892223It's jut playing a movie at higher speed. You never watched a youtube video at 2x speed?
>>153891989It's not like he doesn't have imagination, is that he's just a stiff person that he can only create structures he himself finds "feasible". He is an architect after all, but he's a technically driven architect and like simple, sturdy structures and sometimes he slips too much onto his soldier persona and only sees the ring as a simple tool.
>>153892932so what you're saying is it's not that ai is souless, it's the past ten thousand years of human creativity that ai uses to learn...
>>153892943I think a lot of people assume it's purely negative (soulless accusations, etc.), when it might be just alternative ways of processing things with advantages and disadvantages. Like >>153892223 mentions speedreading, you don't need to "hear" all the words in your head to understand something, and you can actually read faster not focusing on that. Still, it's hard to imagine other people lacking something that seems fundamental to you, so it's natural people get fascinated by it. Especially since we can't show each other, talking and asking about it is the only way we can learn more. People do get insulting or condescending when talking about it, because they interpret it as people lacking a fundamental skill. So fundamental to them that it's hard to believe it's a real difference. But if you have aphantasia and you're getting along fine, that's probably annoying or confusing. Still, it's also baffling trying to understand how aphantasia people do and interpret certain things. Like the whole remembering movies/cartoons thing. Someone with aphantasia surely knows what Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse looks like, but what do they have in their head to represent that?>>153893950Drawing is a skill obviously, and unless someone is tracing they'll struggle to copy an existing image for a while too. But you're making a good point, the image isn't as clear and stable as having it available 100% of the drawing time in front of you. Maybe because you have to focus on drawing instead of focusing on imagining, or because you can envision an apple but not necessarily the exact same apple details over the time you're trying to draw it.
>>153892012>>153892051A lot of media exists simply because a huge chunk of the population cannot replay songs or pictures in their heads.
>>153893267>it's not real because I can't imagine anyone having different perception than meUh huh.
>>153891567You tell me to picture an apple and I have a vague impression of an apple but I'm not 'seeing' it. It's sorta black and white and in static. I would say I vibe or feel things. When I imagine something I'm vibing and feeling it and my internal monologue is describing it.
What does it mean if I can only visualize pictures of apples? Like literal pictures of apples in my mind? Like I'm doing it right now and all I'm getitng is a a photograph of an apple on a platter.
>>153891567At one point in Johns run they tried to make it out that anyone picked to be a GL did need the correct brain wiring to be able to perfectly picture objects and have the unreasonably high level of willpower to force it into reality. Johns tried to describe using a GL ring as trying to pass a kidney stone. Whole deal stops working when half the time in JLA or crossovers any random asshole picks up a ring or grabs Hal's ring and uses it like a pro on their first try.
>>153891567>>153891676>>153892051I always took this test to be more about how people expect this to work more than what their brain is capable of doing.Like some people genuinely think that since they cannot actually conjure up an apple before their physical eyes, then they must be #5. When that is just not how imagination works. They cannot grasp picture in their heads only.
>>153892012That seems to wild to me. Since I can go into a daydream with my eyes open and I am definitely not seeing what my eyes are staring at during it. I come out of it like coming out of a trance.
>>153891567I’ve always had this theory that some form of aphantasia mixed with autism explains why so many people here have a really bizarre lack of self-awareness, like the inability to actually “see” how you’re acting and “hear” what you’re saying results in crippling retardation and hypocrisy
>>153892012Yeah, when I'm awake I have no visual imagination when thinking about stuff. It's not even a list of attributes like another anon said, I am just thinking about whatever. I can go further and think about a description if one is needed. I can imagine music in my head though, I get music stuck in my head pretty often.I do very vividly dream with pictures/images/whatever though. They're so realistic I often wake up disoriented because I'm in bed instead of whatever the dream was. Lucid dreams are worse because I often have to fight so hard to not wake up while dreaming that the dreams fall apart before I can do much in them.
>>153891567IIRC there's one humanoid rock Green Lantern who just flies and punchesDoesn't bother with constructs
>>153894335That's so weird since there is always a song in my head at all times every day. There is never a time when there is no song in my head.
Is there a cure for aphantasia?
>>153896786There's not even an exercise. You can medicate the anxiety from caring and stream to distract yourself until the power goes out.
i was expecting someone to have posted the whumpa fruit
>>153891567For whatever reason, I go up a degree when I masturbate.
My two cents in the memory spectrum.I can remember with almost photographic notion the smells, sounds, touching, taste and images in my head, but i have a great dificulty in rememring names and categorizing it. Like I can remember well the face + name of people i know and talk regurlary but if I don't talk with them almost every week I just forget their name. I usually I'am able to remember people/things when i associate them with another current thing i see like "this dude is a mail man" or "is friend with this neighboor" type of stuff. But its hard to remember names and faces for me.
>>153897733The power of horny makes you use the entire capacity of your hipocampus lmao.
>>153897773Heck yeah i got trips.
>>153891567
someone post the spinning wumpa fruit joke
>>153897859psionic
>>153897823xxxxxx777 Trips.xxxxx7773 Not trips.
>>153894291Ai is soulless because it feels cheap and tne way its pushed is milhouse is a meme tier.That feels like a good way to explain ai, like milhouse is a meme. It's so horrendously forced that most people naturally push back on it.
>>153891685yeah i also noticed that
Personally i prefer pic relatedPosted for sharing purposes only
>>153898184WHAT A STUPID GAY RULE. IF THERE IS A SEQUENCE OF 3 NUMBERS IN A ROLL IT IS TRIPS TO ME. DOESNT MATTER WHERE IT IS POSITIONED. GAAAAAH.
>>153898576No hate, Live your truth mang.
>>153891676The problem with it is that it's all based on self-reporting. None of the five images are how it really works, just how people put it into words.What we can do is test visual memory. Something like, give someone a 3x3 grid and put an X in one of the squares. Show the picture, take it away, and then ask the person where the X was. If they can imagine where that X was and accurately say that, then wow! They can visualize an image in their head. And guess what? That's basically everyone.
>>153891676>>153891567I never understood why this was a big deal; I always clearly picture it, but it's just remembering when you held an apple.
>>153899078I tried now and got a Robocop HUD image of an apple that highlights six segments and assures me none of them are resistant to small arms, so I don't know.
>>153898576...numbers are not "rolled". it's literally the # of posts in /co/
>>153899345I know :(
>>153897823>>153898576This isn't cribbage anon.
The fact that there are both people with aphantasia who can, I understand, only think in word but not images, and people with no inner monologue who can only think in images but not words, and that both of them seem to be completely functional to the point they aren't even considered disabled, just feels absolutely insane to me.
>>153896714like one song playing at a time to completion?
>>153891676I think when people describe it as seeing vividly, others get confused from the phrasing.For example, I can do degree 1 on the chart, but it's not like I literally manifest the psychotic hallucination of an apple in my hand. Your mind's eye is different (unless your eyes are closed maybe).Think about how your internal dialogue is mental audio and consider the apple mental video.
Idk if its the same but i can imagine myself biting into a lemon, and have my tongue feel slightly tingly afterwards
>>153892205I can see whatever I'm imagining or remembering but if it's done with intention it fades away quick or is mixed with other stuff (whatever is associated with what I'm thinking of, voice, emotion, events etc). If I'm not doing it intentionally though it's usually much more vivid and every aspect is amplified, ie if someone is telling me about a great apple pie they've had I might remember the best one I've tasted and I can practically smell/taste/see it. Some people are incredible at visualization though.>>153892303What would those people be imagining at a time before they could read though? It's not like printed words are innately in you at birth.
>>153892427I don't have it that bad but it takes me around a dozen meetings before I can set a face in memory, a lot of faces look very similar to be fair.
>>153893592>I'm also always thinking of original music. But I'm not a musician and don't know notation.I have this as well, although I was roommates with a musician once and he pointed out that around half of what I was humming was usually something I'd heard somewhere else.
>>153893164Stop watching porn and your imagination will come back in those regards
>>153894186Depends on the mode of watching. If it’s a tutorial, I’ll watch at higher speed to just get the answer I’m looking for and help cut through long winded YouTubers attempting to stretch out view time. But that’s similar to scanning a book where you’re not really reading everything and are looking for information. But I couldn’t watch a film that’s supposed to be entertaining that way and get the same thing out of it or read a book for enjoyment that way either. Both might give me broad strokes of the story, but I wouldn’t feel any sort of emotional attachment.
>>153891567I can do 1 with intent but if I'm not thinking about it an apple in my mind would probably be closer to a symbol.
>>153893267Have you ever considered that people actually have different experiences from you? This has been studied. The people who have this issue are unable to conjure images in their imagination. When they think, "apple", they don't picture an apple. They imagine the printed word. Same with any descriptors like "red", "shiny", "round", etc. They're just words that they understand the meaning of, but they don't imagine the images when they think of them. The same phenomena happened when they thought of people they knew. If someone mentioned your mother, you'd likely imagine her face. These people simply imagine the printed name of the person.
>>153894168part of that is just practice. The more you do it, the better you'd get at it, but also the less you have to focus on your draftsmanship skills, the more mental faculties you can dedicate to imagination.
>>153894294>speedreading, you don't need to "hear" all the words in your head to understand something, and you can actually read faster not focusing on that.That's definitely part of it, but the other aspect is what you actually get out of the experience. Timing and pacing means a lot. You can watch a film at 1.5x or 2x the speed and still understand everything. The dialog is still discernible, and you can see everything that happens. If someone asked you what the movie was about, you'd be able to tell them precisely what happened and point out details about scenes. But I think a huge emotional component of the film would be missing. The scenes that create tension or suspense would be obliterated. You wouldn't get the same sort of build up or cathartic release. You can speed watch a film to know what happens, but I find it hard to understand how there can be an emotional component when you speed run a film like that just as I'm personally unable to have an emotional response when speed-reading. I'm not saying that nobody can have an emotional response when speed reading or speed watching just as I wouldn't say that it's necessarily a detriment. It's just different from my personal experience.
>>153896157That's a reasonable assumption to make, but read into the studies that have been done on this. The people who can't imagine images don't picture anything at all. If anything, where some might imagine an apple, others would simply imagine the printed word "apple".
>>153897859based
>>153894168this is where this entire thing becomes bullshit. the spatial reference to accurately draw something is a skill that does not come naturally unless you're a prodigy. everyone uses symbol tokens in their heads to some degree.
>>153891567>'m assuming all Green Lanterns are level 1 on pic relatedNot really? Don't lanterns work off willpower and not 'just' imagination? I imagine there can be a good lantern with good will and just shoots beams because he can't think of anything else. Besides, i imagine the ring must have some sort of automatic function. Don't think it's necessary to imagine all the tiny details of a baseball bat. But then again, all lanterns are different and express their power differently, as seen in Rebirth.
>>153897773Depending on the degree of severity you're describing, that isn't atypical. It just takes practice. You're probably just not paying attention. It happens to me all the time. I can be having a conversation with someone I just met, they tell me their name, I can say "nice to meet you <name>" to repeat it back, but then immediately forget what their name was in the next sentence. It's because when they're telling me, I'm not really paying attention. You can learn to get better at it, but it takes some work. On the plus side, knowing about that can be a great networking tool. First, if you make an effort to remember peoples' names, that will form a really good impression. But almost more importantly, knowing that a lot of other people struggle with that and making it easier for them will endear yourself to them. You can either reintroduce yourself to them immediately when you see them again or, if it becomes obvious that they can't remember your name mid-conversation, finding a way to refer to yourself in the 3rd person will give them an easy out.
>>153899074>If they can imagine where that X was and accurately say that, then wow! They can visualize an image in their head.False conclusion. The person may simply be able to remember the x was 2 columns over and 1 row down without actually picturing the grid.
>>153896214this is called theory of mind
I'm like a 4 I guess? I don't have like a literal image that I can see where I close my eyes but I do have a vague impression of something that I can kind of mentally interact with. It's more so in words though. I still can and do imagine stuff in my head for my own amusement but it's more like I'm writing out a story than drawing a picture.
>>153901961
>>153900397>What would those people be imagining at a time before they could read though?no idea. I didn't do the study and I don't think there has been a lot of research in this field in general. It might be a difficult thing to study since you'd need to talk about abstract concepts like how you imagine things with children who are so young they still can't read. I'd also wonder if it affected learning speeds (either positively or negatively). It's also possible that describing the process as "visualizing the printed word" is the best way that people can explain what's going on. Not related to this apple visualization thing, but just to extrapolate on how people think differently and may lack the vocabulary to explain precisely how their mind is working, there is/was an autistic savant who was also verbal and extremely high functioning so researchers could actually ask him how he was able to do complex calculations in his brain so quickly. He described it as two mountains moving towards each other and combining into a new landscape which would give him the answer. He also managed to learn Icelandic in 1 week from scratch and did an interview live on Icelandic television in Icelandic at the conclusion of the documentary I watched on him.
>>153896214>>153901961which is why autism is really just "clinical selfishness". It kind of explains a lot about 4ch in general.
>>153902163Was it Daniel Tammet? I'd appreciate the name of the documentary if you remember, some of the stuff he describes in an excerpt I found of Born on a Blue Day reminds me of how I used to think of numbers and letters as a small child (although I am far from being any kind of prodigy) so I'd be interested in learning more about this. Never heard of this guy before.
>>153901455I don't think speedreading and speedwatching are comparable (for movies specifically) because so much of film is a combination of different elements (diegetic sound, diction, soundtrack, composition, pacing etc) whereas a book is a single medium you can focus on. I've never managed to speed-read despite trying to train myself for it in my teens though, so this is just me rambling rather than anything based on lived experience.
>>153902203It's deeper than that implies since it affects how you relate to your past and future selves too.
>>153900448That happens a lot. Also all the stuff I think up on my own is clearly pastiche. Even if I could write music I don't think I'd ever be great. But I would be one of those dudes who wrote soundalikes for tv shows and stock libraries or something.
>>153903212that sounds like a comfy job, like those writers that do daily blurbs musing about whatever is interesting to them in the city at the moment
>>153902522yeah, that was him. I saw the documentary a long time ago, but from a brief skim, I'd wager it's probably this one:https://youtu.be/OyDg4p9YNLwI think the whole "learn icelandic in a week" thing was a challenge made specifically for the documentary, so there's a good chance this is it.
>>153902584I mean, when I read books, I tend to also "watch" them in my mind like a movie which tends to demand a certain sort of pace to me. I can only speed up to a certain point until I start to feel like I'm losing the visceral and emotional experience of reading and only get the story. It's possible that actual speedreaders like the guy linked earlier in the thread are able to read that fast and still "feel" the story, but with the way my brain works, I don't know how. It's not for me. Like I said, I can scan text to get information quickly if it's just about raw data, but if I want to read and enjoy a fictional story, I can't rush through it. I need time to visualize the characters, backdrop, setting, props, actions, imagine music, etc.
>>153897896>someone post the spinning wumpa fruit jokenvm found it myself.with sound:>>>/wsg/6158727
>>153903212>But I would be one of those dudes who wrote soundalikes for tv shows and stock libraries or something.The trick with that is being super fucking fast at recording and production and less about the ideas. The idea part of the gig takes seconds, but the only way to make money in that gig is to just shit out professional sounding music all day every day. Most of the music won't go anywhere (or will be used for online ads which pay nothing), but if a couple get used in a prominent tv show or actual tv advertisement, you can get a good payday. It's a numbers game. So unfortunately, the ability to riff on extant musical tropes and come up with ideas for the soundalikes is the easy part. The hard part is actually making the thing and doing it within a few hours.
>>153904001the original source of it:https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/640537264/#640541687>https://files.catbox.moe/9nbwzq.mp4
