I'll start with the best.
Only people who dislike Watchmen have actually read it.
>>153923714kekmy favorite part is the newstand and black kid reading comics that takes like thirty fucking pages out of a chaptertotally doesn't muck up the pacing whatsoever and make me feel like i'm having a headache
>>153923749No, you see, the extremely heavy-handed allegory for nuclear weapons was absolutely necessary to understanding the plot. If Alan Moore didn’t devote an entire subplot to this shoe-polished child’s comic-reading, the audience might not have gotten it.
>>153923749>reading hurts the subhuman brainThese are the "people" you share a board with.
>>153923930some hoodlooms present there decided to stomp in nite owl 1's head for some reasonwhoops
>>153923950It was the equivalent of reading two entirely different ramblings about unrelated things.
>>153923749>>153923970I thought the ramblings of the comic pirate dude and the news stand guy was that they were a stand-in for Ozymandias’ insanity
>>153923984what?
Snyder fucked up Jon's perspective of time so hard. I don't think he even included it save for the brief mention of something blocking out his perception of the far future. When to him, everything is simultaneously.
>>153924002Alan Moore uses the pirate comic book and the news stand guy as a way to further elaborate on Ozymandias’ ideology.I say this because the news stand guy won’t shut up about how he thinks he understands the world because he reads papers, like how Ozy thinks he understands the world because he watches television.
>>153924063Oh. not even moore could do a smart character right
>>153924110Ozy is not smart. He’s a Mary Sue jackass blinded by his godly hubris that bumbled his way into victory, and he ends up scared shitless about the future he created in his final talk with blue god
for me, it's everything laurie talks about having something to do with herself
>>153924153just seems contrived
>>153924217In the end nothing ever really changes.
>>153924063You can tell that was cut in the movie to keep him from looking like a moron
>>153924110Every time with this. Adrian isn't smart, he's knowledgeable, that was Blake's point during the Minuteman meeting.He's read about Ramesses, Alexander, business, patterns in society and Eastern mysticism to give himself an air of class, competence and leadership, he's more read than the average joe, great, but he's clueless about the real world outside those narrow interests, more so than many of the other costumed heroes who lived more grounded lives in their alter egos to fathom when things are bigger than they can really solve with theatrics.Adrian even reluctantly admits to Dan and Walter he was lost on world politics until Blake called him out, but by the time he speed reads to catch up he can't do much but make himself a liberal media darling by doing some useless relief work, creating his own publishing network to echo said uselessness and buying a few oriental slaves, sorry, "hiring" Vietnamese personnel to busy themselves polishing his shit in Karnak until he deigns to lecture them on how clever he was, is and always will be before killing them off like everyone else once he realizes they have no use after sufficiently stroking his ego.The whole point of his long winded exposition was to show he's a high functioning psychopath who refuses to accept his shortcomings, and instead chooses to find ways to punish everyone else for making him aware of it. He looks at the complex problem, recalls the last things he considered clever and decides Gordian knotting everyone will do, because that's all he fucking knows.The smartest thing Adrian says is pointing out how many people buy the Smartest Man Alive title his PR team cooked up.
>>153923699You haven't read Watchmen?Why not?It's on sale at every bookstore for 10 bucks.It's quite good
>>153924396>The whole point of his long winded exposition was to show he's a high functioning psychopath who refuses to accept his shortcomings, and instead chooses to find ways to punish everyone else for making him aware of it. He looks at the complex problem, recalls the last things he considered clever and decides Gordian knotting everyone will do, because that's all he fucking knows.i think you're giving alan moore too much credit
>>153923699I watched the motion comic.
Is it a common theme in Watchmen threads to belittle Moore when something goes over an anon's head
>>153925439yes, like how all of you don't understand how this comic is about the fascism of superheroes and how communism would save everyone
I guess that's a yes then.
veidt catching a bullet was dumbveidt cloning a psychic was dumb
I remember when the movie was coming out and you could walk in to a Blockbuster, they had a rack of the comic for sale by the counter
>>153925525>blockbusterah the sky is raining
I imagine most people haven't actually read Kingdom Come because art aside, it's 7/10
I like how the giant squid is a play of the trope about how super teams in superhero comics usually join to beat up aliens
>>153923984you thought correctly, yes. the point is the pirate convinces himself of the worst possible scenario, does horrible things because of it, and then regrets it when he has the moment of clarity. This all parallels Ozymandias thinking the world's about to end, all he ruins in order to prevent it, and the final realisation that for all he did, nothing ever ends and he sacrificed millions for what will likely be not justifiable a reason (the peace will end, the world would've ended at peace enough anyway, etc). The pirate story parallels the motivations of the villain, allowing us to give him some more personal understanding despite him mostly being absent.
Finished re-reading it. Did not age well. Either that or I forgot all of the parts that just dragged on and on. Like fucking Laurie bitching about everything. Rorschach and Manhattan carried that comic.
>>153923984>>153925574It's more obvious on a second reading. And Rorschach was right in the end.
>>153925599>And Rorschach was right in the end.The comic sets up that the Kovacs/Rorschach identity masquerade breaks down during Manhattan's chapter. Thematically, Rorschach is not really there anymore, it's the scared Kovacs' who has been scarred as a child taking control again. It is a child asking for death.
>>153924110almost like the whole point of that sequence is to show Veidt's as alarmist as the common man.The newspaper guy and the kid reflect Veidt's plot because you don't get to see Veidt directly until the end
>>153925634or he's crying because a ton of innocent people like that little girl who got raped and fed to dogs was killedor that his best friend is going along with it all
>>153925556Hey, I just bought a cheap used absolute edition copy of Kingdom come and patched up a torn page. Read it again and it's KINO. Atleast an 8/10
>>153923930>If Alan Moore didn’t devote an entire subplot to this shoe-polished child’s comic-reading, the audience might not have gotten it.People still didn't get it. >>153925389No, that's on point. Moore did shit like that a bunch.
>>153925556I listen to the audiobook.
>>153923699Why is this so common now? In video games, movies, books, comics, everyone is constantly assuming everyone else is a poser and pretends to be consuming shit. And it's not even like obscure artsy stuff, it's all extremely popular shit, and for some reason people think no one has ever actually experienced any of it
>>153925707because normies infected everything and it's painfully obvious when someone hasn't actually partaken
>>153925698The original 1998 one not the new one.
>>153923699>lets out ourselves as the stupid lazy retards we are!Speak for yourself, OP.
>>153925556>Mark Waidi would say i didn't read it because i didn'tand pretend i didn't if i did
>>153925586You speedread it?
Oh boy! Am I going to see people harping on about how fellating a recently killed black man is some high art from Alan Moore's Neonomicon?
>>153925707Because people are too scared now for some reason to just say ''I never seen it or I don't know know what that is'' I don't know why like just say no like damn though another problem is some just don't pay attention to what they look at.
>>153923950Make that reading COMPREHENSION.
>>153925745He's a good writer, when he wants to be. I'm not going to pretend like he's perfect. The comic falls flat, and I dread the fact everyone took it as the best "deconstruction" of capes ever when Miracle Man was infinitely more interesting and well put together without almost completely abandoning the whole cape comic part.
>>153925721Was it any good?
>>153925707Everybody turned into a fucking Brian Griffin and cared more about the prestige being cultured has than they did engaging with the medium.It also doesn't help society has gotten beyond autistic, and now people can only talk in media references. Not knowing a hundred different movies, TV shows, video games is going to leave you out of the conversation.
>>153925557W-was that a trope at that point?
>>153925808you think?
>>153925666Yes that is part of it.
>>153925798I liked it, Knightfall is better (I read the comic too since audio book is too short) but not a fan of how audiobooks for comics tend to add additional dialogue instead of just being the dialogue from the book so you can follow along in the art easier but out of pure laziness for not reading I do listen to official audiobooks or watch official motion comics if one exists, I actually like the line of 00's Marvel DVDs that barely have rips online. but here KC is if you want a listen: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6Cn_well8vY-kQx099LSHU4uPLhq_61iWatched this as a teenager.
>>153925692I read it recently. Ross put forth some decent ideas, and there's great design work and fun easter eggs, but it's a solid 6/10 at best.
Rorshach did nothing wrong.
>>153925875absolutelyand in the end his position was the objectively right one because no one blew anyone up in real life, Armageddon being fucking stupidveidt killed millions for nothing
>>153925801>also doesn't help society has gotten beyond autistic, and now people can only talk in media references. Not knowing a hundred different movies, TV shows, video games is going to leave you out of the conversation.I'm a complete failure as an autist and normalfag and exist in some sort of limbo state. My autism makes me only like super specific things like giant mecha anime and have missed so many classic movies and never get references to anything else. But I WILL notice all the Dirty Pair references in Star Trek...
>>153925875Idolizing Comedian and telling a woman her mother's rapist isn't so bad is a pretty shit move
>>153925654The book is 100 times better when you read the pirate parts in the most stereotypical pirate voice you can imagine.
>>153925897it's what her own mother did
>>153925654That black kid is everybody in the United States who is buying manga over comic books right now.
>>153925912Oh yeah, forgot that bit kek
>>153925923Not to mention, they let Veidt be after he killed all those people. So they have no moral leg to stand on. Even if they thought peace would happen, there is no reason to spare him after.
>>153925557I like how in Batman Beyond when they finally introduced Starro Aquagirl could talk to Starro and was extremely important because of it.
The new meme is saying Kid Miracleman was a better villain than homelander even though he only shows up in like two issues and Dr. Gargunza is the main antagonist for most of the series. Granted they were very memorial appearances but he's not a villain on the same level as ꜱoylander or plutonian.
>>153925586>Either that or I forgot all of the parts that just dragged on and on.I guess you could say less is Moore.
>>153925932Well, what are you gonna do?>Why did Adrian Veidt die?>So, that giant squid in New York? Yeah, we killed Ozymandius because he faked it. America, Russia, you guys can go back to that nuclear war thing you were raljing about.
>>153925940I wonder why he was so batshit crazy. Was it just paranoia?
>>153925940Yet no one brings up how The Boys copied a lot from Marshal Law.
>>153925897The joke was I was pretending to have pretended to read the Watchmen so I didnt know that...
>>153925953Dude, they're in fucking Antarticta. No one is going to find out.>>153925943CARLOOOOOOOOOOOS
>>153924043He cut out dialogue so the literal dialogue makes no sense to human beings there is no way he actually understood it himself
>>153925966It's funny how everyone has some fucked up shit going on that makes them very unlike the idea of a Superhero but when you finally want them to just murder someone in cold blood they dont give a shit.
>>153925985rorschach was the only one who came out of that looking like a good person
>>153923699Sandman is a weird one because it's not a series instantly announced to normalfags, but is probably the top choice for great "obscure" comics (it's not obscure).But man, there are some SHIT chapters to Sandman. The Dee guy that broke out of Arkham Asylum, most of that pointless inn filler saga, the comic version of "dream hunters", and the "cereal" convention? Those fucking stunk. Now the Keys of Hell story, The Kindly Ones, Overture, and the prose version of dream hunters? Those are top notch. But I don't really see complaints about the shit chapters. Even Watchmen, as revered as it is still gets arguments over Veidt's squid plan, or the pirate comic.
>>153925999I won't read this because the Jew made Caesar rape Octavian and I refuse to indulge his homosexual incestuous subversive fantasies
>>153925989And he went and sent his diary to a neo-nazi publication group.
>>153926008Yeah that was a real stinker ending. The rest of the Caeser stroy was great, but then he had to go and say "Are you proud of me, Ennis? I can be edgy, too!"
>>153926011And?
>>153925923You're forgetting correctly, because she actually doesn't say Blake isn't so bad, Sally tells Blake to stay the hell away from Laurie after the Minutemen meeting and her last word on the matter when Laurie wants to know what was what is just that she couldn't entirely hate Blake because he gave her Laurie from a fling.Blake was still the guy to shoot a pregnant woman dead for harshing his buzz. And for all Rorschach's paid respects and glazing of Blake, Jon's flashback shows Blake doesn't give a damn about America beyond where it lets him get his kicks and Dan's flashback of the riots show Blake further shit talking America and Rorschach unprompted, so there's a clear point that Walter's too uninformed and entrenched in his own Freudian issues to wield the sword of ethical objectivity.>>153925966Veidt spells it out before they all resign, if he disappears no one with the money and intel to clean up the physical and psychic damage will prevent further problems, and because he's a wealth, connected celebrity someone will look into his death. The cops know Nite Owl and Rorschach were on the lamb in Archimedes, any reports of it heading to Antarctica will snowball.
>>153926024Only reason I could think Rorshach would entertain The New frontiersmen is because those types tend to brand themselves as "the ugly truth", and he's curious. Any other explanantion doesn't make a lick of sense. Especially when he's confirmed as not a Nazi, being his best friend is a jewish guy and Rorshach used Hitler as an example of poor moral character.
>>153925999I remember when I was 14 I knew someone who loved this book and he died of meth overdose survived and lied about having cancer to me as a joke then I never talked to him againa and assume he is dead. So I can never read Sandman now.
>>153926028I'm rereading Watchmen right now actually, but am only at volume 4. But fucking hell Comedian, you could've gotten away from America's bullshit and raised a family with a QT jungle wife. Why'd you go and blow it?
>>153926028>because he's a wealth, connected celebrity someone will look into his deathdidn't he live in new york with everyone else?
>>153926020Getting into comics as a newfag is wild there's more rape than Epstein Island. I've never seen anything like it. I knew it was gritty and dark at points but goddamn it holy shit
>>153925999I feel like all the major storylines suck ass, it's the short stories that are great. That fucking seasons of the Mist one especially, people point to that as the best arc in the series and it's dogshit. Dogshit!
>>153926057>Berserk has rape>Invincible has rape>The Boys has rape>Killing Joke has rape>Watchmen has rape>Sandman has rape>Incal has rapeThe entire medium can only portray "dark and serious" as "rape". It's equal parts absurd as it is funny. Akira can definitely be mindless violence a lot of times, but I can respect it for being the one good real "adult" comic I've read that so far doesn't involve rape. But even then it still has attempted rape.
>>153926066What? I wouldn't call SOM the BEST one, but come on it's kino. Lucifer using the keys of hell to try and turn everybody against dream was kino, Dream freeing his ex GF was kino, the fights between the gods was kino, Thor, Loki and Odin's bullshit was kino, and the ending where his GF is reincarnated into a good life is kino. What's even bad about Seasons to begin with?
>>153925940Bates was pure mad, unthinking, malignant power. He's not very complicated, but his tantrums are killer. More of a nightmare than a character. I think that's swell.Comic Homelander is also an overgrown baby, and similarly has no real challengers, but his world is also different. His is full of superpowered people and unknown factors.>>153925963Ennis himself said it was a major source of inspiration.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmaOhsQF8OI>>153926008I remember the HBO Rome series also brought that up. Except in the show, Octavian helps pull Caesar into a pantry room to hide the fact that he's having a seizure. Some kitchen help hears grunting, then sees them both exit the room. Atia later congratulates Octavian for seducing his uncle. Where did it originate?
>>153926087nothing more horrifying than a rock hard cock hammering into a wet tight pussy and the woman not wanting it
>>153926087>Killing Joke has rapeNope.>But even then it still has attempted rape.That definitely counts lol.
>>153926116Marcus Antonius relying on the classic calling your political opponent an uncle fucking faggot
>>153926124Anon, what do you think happened to Barbare Gordon when Joker stripped her?
>>153926117Self guilt from virgin comic writers. They want to rape more than anything, but the heckin guilt, aaaaah I want to put my weenee in that pretty lady without asking, I'm such a bad person
>>153926100The setups are all far more interesting than the payoffs and the most interesting parts, Dream and the hell shit and his relationship with his Ex, end up really uninteresting and disappointing to me. I could say this about most of the major arcs but it's the worst here.
Watchmen is a flawed masterpiece, I cant believe this board has become so fucking contrarian and ragebaity that we have threads like this.
>>153926087I started noticing it so I bad I said fuck it I give up on comics I'm rewatching the fucking Superman 78 because its wholesome as shit and did a spit take when Lois Lane starts talking about murder rape in her first scene. I tried to get into comics with fucking Grant Morrison's run on Doom Patrol in January by the way. Literally today I tried reading Ghost World because I loved the movie when I was a teenager and in the first few pages some dude is publishing legal child porn (because it was made digitally like Angela Anaconda or some shit?) in his fansize and with a catholic priest child molester. Last comic I tried was Animal Man but hillbilly rape. Dropped Starman because random Shade flashback to a fat bastard hypnotizing someone's sister into a rape slave. there is SO MUCH FUCKING RAPE. And then when there's no rape you find our the author is a rapist.
>>153926147we should have heroes raping villainesses
>>153923749>my favorite part is the newstand and black kid reading comics that takes like thirty fucking pages out of a chapterThat part is an allegorical commentary on comic books as a medium. Next thing you are going to tell us that Hamlet having a play within a play was stupid and only ruined the pacing.
>>153923699I read this shit in High school and I forgot most of it. Maybe I'll go back and reead it.
>>153926087I don't see the issue with this.
>>153926148Even if your expectations weren't met there's no way SOM is worse than the Tranny hurricane arc, or the one where the pedophile Disney adult gets happy dreams. Come on.
>>153926159The pirate part didn't have to be so drawn-out.
>>153926054For what it's worth Blake trying to connect to Laurie twice, breaking down in front of Moloch and his defeated behavior in his apartment before his death implies he realized too late that he really should have cut the shit when he had the chance, but he also tells Moloch that he was raised believing life's tough so you've just gotta be a tough guy until the bitter end.Jon, Walter, Sally all make a somber point that no one really understood where he thought he was going with the gag after awhile, and even he admits he never claimed the perpetual nihilist bit isn't a good joke, he just performs it well.>>153926056Yes, but Veidt's a narcissist under it all, he fully intended to come back and be lauded as America and eventually the world's savior in their time of need.Also, in a way it's good people are emotionally compelled by the ending, people caring about made up thought experiments is a sign of engaging writing, but too many always get distracted by their feeling of what they want to grasp what actually happened.The others don't just smile and nod while Adrian gets away with it and Jon blows Walter up. In fact, despite Walter's dismissive remarks about her, Laurie is the first to not only try to just shoot Adrian but also vocally objects twice at letting him just walk away, Dan also admits he's damned if he stays quiet but cannot see how he'd counter Adrian's position.I'd say the only one seemingly being a bit of a callous prick might be Jon, he curiously throws Laurie's humanitarian lecture back in her face like he wants to get one last jab in before they break up, but he's always been presented as speaking distastefully.
I CANT EVEN GET PARASOCIAL RETARD ATTACHMENTS TO COMIC YOUTUBERS. Casually comics mention how everyone gets raped or creepy shit all the time. Like the Huntress. And even Comic Tropes was just casually OH AND THEN CERBERUS THE ANTEATER RAPES SONYA THE RED Stop raping holy fuck if I wanted to see that I'd be jerking off here. I wanna remember being a kid again and I keep getting the rapiest fucking shit I am actually going insane and trying to find a doctor for meds which is not helping because I live in Jeetland (Canada) I might actually go insane over this. I'm becoming a Bluey adult or something jesus fuck. Why did I click a watchmen thread.
>>153926135She was paralyzed and bleeding out with no clothes on.
>>153926162I see a lot of mommy issues from the authors with this.
>>153926186I didnt think it detracted from the plot since it ran pretty much parallel to it, and yeah you can make the argument that allegories are dumb because they leave it to the reader to figure out how they are related to the thing they are allegorical too, but this isa comic book, if we start demanding that they drop all allegory and only aim to tell a set structured story from start to finish with no moving parts and no commentary then we take all the fun parts out of art.
>>153926153That's how come Moore brings it up so much. Rape happens, a lot. Like Moore, I know several people who were raped (also like Moore, I was molested), and I don't even go outside.
>>153926197And Jim Gordon? The midgets had a whole S&M thing going on with him, they were even wearing gimp suits.
>>153926209Once again, I don't see the issue with this
>>153926213Alright here me out give me a giant squid and I can stop all the rape.
>>153926195You genuinely aren't mature enough to use this website.>>153926156Bueno Excellente, save us with fat bastard rape kino
>>153926219Terrorized, caged, and shown naked pictures of his dying daughter while naked.
>>153926219Maybe he raped the midgete then you dont know.
>>153926237No I cant leave here where will I go to jerk off to 10 year old hypnotized cartoon children, gossip over trannies who make indie cartoons, and death battle arguements for hundreds of replies?
>>153926237I understand why rapist want to rape people now. I think it's just to stop stupid niggers from opening their mouth by shoving a cock in it.
>>153923699a friend of mine pretends like he read the boys, when i know for a fact he saw some summaries on reels/shorts and called it a day
>>153926269It's control and power.Killer kill, because the victim's life is an inconvenience to them, so they take something they aren't supposed to have.Rapists rape, because the victim's chastity is an inconvenience to them, so they take something they aren't supposed to have.
Waiter, I'd like a dark and gritty comic strictly for adult readers. But please, hold the rape.
>>153926311I'd prefer a normal and bright comic for adult readers with rape.
>>153925940>>153925955Basically Paranoia. All the Zarathustra experiments went through a similar thing, but reacted differently based on circumstancesMM adjusted the best for thinking it was all a strange dream for years while he fully built a human identity. Eventually he sinks into a deeper depression as he sees his powerfantasy life bleaken the world around him he used to have, that's why he understands perfectly how Bates went so insane living like this when the world around him is so darkYN, intended as a parallel to Bates, went completely crazed because he was used for pure powerfantasy in Zarathustra, and when confronted with the horror of this real life, he could only madly lash out with power the only way he ever knew to in the dream world, where it all made sense and would resolve things by the end. Except in the real world nothing reset, and he was stuck there at that bar waiting in his own mess for a hero to come stop him.KM’s was thrust completely out of his element, alone, with only his own power to rely on. Does not help that he was the youngest, a little kid all alone in a hostile new world where they just killed his family and want to kill him next. Taught to kill or be killed.He became hateful, misanthropic and got a god complex over time, because he eventually saw everything in the real world as bleak, and a threat to destroy. In their final battle Mike realised Bates is still stuck wanting their paradise life before, and never left. Everything since has been a bad dream to him.Bonus:MW had the easiest exit, though because of her sad and disgusting human life where she is raped by Gargunza. She forsook a human life entirely, instead only seeing herself as Miraclewoman and accepting her godhood easily. Reingorced by Gaiman’s planned ending to Silver Age where she works with Gargunza to take over, because she wants to be a total goddess, and not a benevolent overseer. Mindbroken into being thankful that Gargunza improved her life.
Why are people so up in arms about Veidt's squid bomb in New York when Truman did the exact same thing with the A-bomb in Japan and it worked
>>153926323That's fine, just keep it on your own plate please.
>>153926328>Gaimanhis runs aren't canon
>>153926348Because one is war. The other is terrorism disguised as an alien invasion.
>>153923930>>153923749>>153923714>>153923699Honestly, you guys are midwit.It's the exact opposite of what you guys are saying; casuals only read this comic.
>>153926371Everyone reads it.
>OP mocking whether people read comics>Expect the usual irony whirlpool>Instead see posts who not only do but understand and think about themCheers, made my week.
>>153925940I think Kid Miracleman's a better villain than Homelander (comic), he simply used his paneltime better.For me Homelander (comic) has 3 pivotal scenesThe Mirror monologue when he's being self-aware of his motives and guilt over the plane crash.The talk with Stan Edgar where he's basically being told about his relationship with Vought.and possibly when he dropped that family's car out of the sky.But scenes like that third one get majorly ruined by the dumb twist that he got tricked into doing it all from just some photoshopped photos. It lacks introspection into what he truly wants to do as a person, and it's a dumb twist because it's not a story about a character so gullible he'd believe it if he saw it in a picture, he shows logic and self-awareness in the book, you can't excuse that with "duuh he's a dumb corporate product he don't know no better". If he feels and thought that way because of his life circumstances, like his guilt over the plane crash as suggested in the Mirror monologue, it would be far better, the twist wastes that to say he only feels that way because of a dumb ploy from a non-character that is illogical to fall for made him do it. Not even to mention that retarded gay sex scene with Soldier Boy. Once Ennis had him "let go" he became a looney tunes character and stopped being threatening.KM had a similar arc, but did it better in less time. Had similar monologues, but more of them, about how KM is actually a protective persona to Bates. Similar scenes where Miracle Man expresses an understanding of why he does it. His conclusion is much more satisfying, because he keeps his serious tone, does more with it (all your Supers got killed by the military, Ennis??) and since it rests on the character that they built up for going on a rampage, rather than a last second plot twist.
Who is the world actually likes this gay ass comic?
>>153925940Kid Miracleman is scary but I still think Plutonian is the perfect Evil Superman. He takes everything that Clark is and perverts it. Even before he went rogue, he was a creep
>>153926531Plutonian's such a shallow narcissistic wankfest of a character. That whole sequence at the end how he gets redeemed by being the most powerfulest ever, then scattering through the multiverse and "inspiring" everyone to make Superman, made me roll my eyes out my head.Honestly perfect for people who think Superman is "le deep symbol of hope"
>>153926528I do...
>>153926370No both were types if war. Active war I guess you'd call it and cold war. It's not fucking justified even then though so I dont know why I'm being that guy.
>>153926553Oh yeah no, that entire last third of the comic was trash. Great start though.
>>153926528I like it. Second volume is better though
>>153923699You caught me. I didn't read it. I watched the animated comic dub.
>>153926348Are you implying people weren't up in tentacles about the atom bomb?
>>153923699It's not that long, why would anyone pretend to have read it? Are you some Snyder-glazing retard from India?
>>153926646The world doesn't revolve around Snyder or India you spazz
>>153926087I'd say Tetsuo drugging girls into sexual servitude is pretty much rape anyway.
>>153926646it's 416 pages long
>>153926653that was a thing?
>>153925940>he only shows up in like two issuesHis appearance and actions changed the course of the world in that comic.
>>153926666After he's set up the great tokyo empire with akira and they're living in the stadium, he has a harem of drugged up sloots that his gang brings him, it's not in the film. One of them is the Kaori chick that the clowns are going to rape in the movie.
>>153926697based
>>153925940>villain on the same level as plutonian"dooooood like 5/8,000,000,000 people were not entirely satisfied with my superheroing, I must now become the Joker and murder everyone innocent for getting a little criticism, and lobotomise my friends and family who were nothing but nice to me always. Also it's not my fault because the alien probe copied the brain of a Psycho baby-killing mom so actually i'm Krazy just because.""Also I'm gonna do a bunch of gay and retarded shit like having gay superpower sex with my Lex Luthor who ackshually only hates me because he's gay and wants my cock so bad, getting teleported to a new prison every single issue, and saving the day from the random new threat of a radioactive fart cloud from China"Riveting comic.
>>153926748My point is Kid Miracleman isn't the main focus of Miracleman while in Injustice or Irredeemable the evil superman character is what drives the plot and every chapter is about the main characters trying to find a way to kill him. Plutonian isn't that well written but he is intimidating.
>>153926656That's 12 issues, it's nothing in comic book terms.
>>153926783nahtony is too much of a giant fucking babyhe's intimidating in the same way a midget with a gun pointed at your head is intimidating
>>153926783True.I’m just mad that /co/ conned me into reading that Iredeemable shite, promising it’s totally serious and done right just because “blabla hems actually a reality warper”. Waid is a hack, he can’t write serious drama
>>153926528It's in my top ten all-time favorite comics. Jaime's part, anyway.
>>153926808I liked gay Lex Luthor and him raping Plutonian in Bette's hot body.but everything else was pretty gay, yesincorruptible was such a waste of a concept
>>153926844I don’t see why of any character to make a spinoff of you’d choose Max Damage.
>>153926858was he even in the fucking main comic?i only ever remember him showing up near the end
>>153926844Incorruptible is fine until it has this huge timeskip right in the middle. The story totally went to shit after that. Also that whole "Max Damage is building a prison" and "Only Max can defeat the Plutonian" goes nowhere
>>153926748>having gay superpower sex with my Lex Luthor who ackshually only hates me because he's gay and wants my cock so badhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQICcKNsHzkWhy does this keep happening?
>>153926875Yeah, what the fuck even was that? I like Max genuinely thanking Tony for once being a hero who inspired him, but what the fuck was that plot point? It's like Mark Waid just gave up partway through. Same in the main comic.
>>153926883loooooooooli am fucking wheezing man
>>153926883“rumpus room”
>>153923714Wrong i red it and i liked it. Why did i read it? Because it was recommended by Wizard Magazin, readers and a french comic documentary i once saw!>>153881995
>>153923699I’ve read them as actual individual issues. Get on my level.
>>153925940Kid Marvelman's initial appearance is more interesting than Homelander at any point to me. After he's defeated eh, not that great.I always say it when Plutonian comes up, the part where the detective character realizes he has information that he shouldn't have is 10/10. The last parts of the comic are moronic though.
>>153926087There are more skilled authors than can do "dark and serious" without rape.
>>153928088mehIn any semi-realistic scenario, a woman is getting raped if she's anywhere in a dangerous or shady society. I'd say the issue with it in a lot of these works is the portrayal of something that would be relatively banal all things considered as shocking horror every single time. It makes a work self-aware of it going against modern sensitivities and takes the reader out. That's why it feels so forced and shallow. It's being handled in such a childish manner every single time. It's treating everyone like children.I wouldn't say the best way to handle it is to off-screen or imply it but full illustration is effectively just pornography. Maybe a panel or two with some offscreen reaction. An aftermath page or panel too. That's enough to showcase what has happened without being overtly pornographic.
>>153925599Also how much Veidt for all his intelligence and arrogance is an idiot. I feel a lot of people kinda just take it as a surface level that he's named Ozymandias, and don't quite get that it's important that he's named after a poem about a man who thought he was the biggest most important thing ever and then got basically forgotten by time. For all Veidt goes "I'm not some Republic Serials villain", he still sees the world in trouble and his thought is a very superheroesque "I just gotta punch it hard enough", just his punch is a supervillainesque "what if cartoon squid". It really feels like explaining obvious things, but to be honest some of it only feel more obvious to me now I re-read it as an adult, as opposed to a first read as a teen
>>153923749>>153923930The comic is kinda bloating the story. And it isnt that obvious a commentary on Ozymandias. Thats very arthouse.
this shit right here>but DUDE the ARTits shit. unironically, not baiting. technically its good, the artist can draw for sure, but the artstyle is just pretentious and looks washed out and you cant even tell whats going on.also story is shit
>>153929804I agree thats too drug trippy. I think they wanted all the 90s alternative art club fame.
>>153929804>its shit. unironically, not baiting. technically its goodJesus, dude.
>>153930462Some pages.
>>153930474But he is right. Sometimes things sound good on paper but than the executed project looks wierd.
>>153925556I read the mexican version published by VID.Disgusting. Good comicbook but it translate was awful.
>>153925474> and how communism would save everyoneMoore wearing a shirt one to shock old biddies still works on people born long after he wore it, lol.
>>153925884> and in the end his position was the objectively right one because no one blew anyone up in real lifeWatchmen is explicitly not real life, so fixating on the results of the actual Cold War is pointless.That said, it’s also a point that Ozymandias was provoking things to get to the point they were, in an attempt to make a controlled fire.
>>153925932Manhattan is the only one who could kill him, and he doesn’t care enough to. Dan and Laurie already failed.Besides there’s an implication that Veidt has positioned himself as a crucial figure in guiding things after the Squid, so that’s another reason to be apprehensive about doing anything to him.
>>153926024>>153926038TNF is a rag and Rorschach’s journal, which we see the contents of, has no notes about the Squid( being mailed before the attack)The only info it has is that Ozymandias is behind… something to do instigating current events and killing the Comedian.It’s news that would immediately be overshadowed by the Squid, in a publication of dubious repute, sent in a submission column. Maybe some people would put two and two together, but most people would never see the connection. The biggest tie to Veidt is the Squid being genetically engineered, and it exploded.
>>153926041> and he died of meth overdose survived and lied about having cancer to me as a joke then I never talked to him againa and assume he is deadMotherfucker read your sentences before you post. Did he get resuscitated or something? There’s things missing here
>>153926054> But fucking hell Comedian, you could've gotten away from America's bullshit and raised a family with a QT jungle wife. Why'd you go and blow it?Comedian fucking hated Vietnam and he only used that woman for sex. Why do you think he’d want to stay there or raise a family? He was miserable any time he wasn’t fucking, drinking or killing there. And America was paying him handsomely to do all that. He doesn’t want to raise Japan brats in some humid jungle, he wants to smoke cigars in a nice air conditioned apartment and watch TV with a glass of scotch.
>>153926020I doubt Gaiman even knows Ennis.
>>153926159>That part is an allegorical commentary on comic books as a mediumand how does that elevate Watchmen's story though
>>153928922> I feel a lot of people kinda just take it as a surface level that he's named Ozymandias, and don't quite get that it's important that he's named after a poem about a man who thought he was the biggest most important thing ever and then got basically forgotten by timeHe didn’t, but that’s not the point. More accurately the use of Ozymandias( who was Ramses II) illustrates that Adrian’s great works will too one day crumble to dust. “ it never ends” maybe Adrian’s name will be known, but it will simply be history too, no one will concern themselves much with all the effort he put in or his mental conflict over what he did, if it’s ever found out . It will all simply fade into cold history.
>>153926885To me, Plutonian should have won. Bad ending. It would have worked much better that way, edgy as fuck sure but better than the ending it had
>>153923714What about people who skimmed it to get to the good parts?You're fucking insane if you think I'm going to read Bendis tier dialog about frivolous nothings or retarded allegories because Alan's too autistic to show and tell and let readers think for themselves.
>>153923699>>153923714>actually no one really likes popular thing! They just pretend to cause...uhh...SHUT UP!Threads like this are always so tiring regardless of what medium you're pretending it applies to. You're too stupid and autistic to understand that just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people feel the same thing. They think they're lying or wrong or 'stupid' (aka don't count and are probably lying anyways. And you're too mentally ill to understand otherwise.
>>153929697> And it isnt that obvious a commentary on Ozymandias. You being unable to tell that is more a critique on your own ability than on the narrative. Watchmen uses basically all of it's supplementary in-universe material to tell us more about the characters and the universe without exposition dumping. All of it ties into the main narrative in some way.
>>153931455Watchmen is meant to be an all-encompassing comic about the medium itself. Moore set out to make it the Moby Dick of superhero comics. The comic both serves on commentary on a character's acrtions, while exploring what comics would be like in this universe.
>>153926528the only reason Love and Rockets exists is because some Jews were impressed two Mexicans could draw comics and decided to pay them for life to draw mediocre fetish doodles.
>>153931816Nice fanfic
>>153931680>>153931719Duality of anon.
>>153931455>elevate Watchmen's storyWatchmen's story is certainly an element of its premise, but it's also an assignment on all properties of comic books the trio could achieve then.That's why Moore had touted so long that it couldn't be adapted, he wasn't just wanking over his writing being too high brow, he was referring to the panel presentation and pacing, the off but consistent use of color. These things are well known by now.The pirate comic is part of that, it being both a means of providing insight through analogy paralleling the comic we're reading and also being a weird but fitting comment on the direction of comics in a world where costumed vigilantes were prominent enough to wear out social tolerance similar to fur suit antics is doubly effective, indicating how bad things must be on first impression but also later clarifying how we didn't even know how bad things really were.Also this next part doesn't really add to the main events most are concerned with beyond adding to Adrian's list of cruelties, but I like how material throughout the series paints Max Shea, the person behind the infamous entry of the pirate comic, like how we view the British Invasion writers. He's accused of just making needlessly lurid and cynical material, yet in his last moments he's shown to be almost woefully pleasant and pursuing romance.Like the young sensationalist writer in Supreme I felt it was Moore doing an inside joke on how he saw himself and his peers compared to how others saw them because of the tone from things like Swamp Thing. Basically>Now, hold on, we're not that horrible in person.Especially because later events proved it fitting. There are lot of Youtube takes how Moore's a misanthrope who just showed up to superhero comics to kill ideals and make everything miserable, but his interviews even then showed him to be jolly to be involved and contemplative on society and the future. He only hasn't blown up mid cruise coitus yet.
>>153925745No, it's high art because of the scene where the cult GILF forces the hot young FBI agent to eat her hairy pussy
>>153926528>>153931816It was Alan Moore's favorite comic for a good while.>Locas is simply the finest ongoing character drama being produced by anyone in any medium, the great American graphic novel, comics towering literary achievement.Alan Moore>Jaime’s art balances big white and black spaces to create a world of nuance in between, just as his writing balances our big human feelings and our small human trivias to generate its incredible emotional power. Quite simply, this is one of the twentieth centuries most significant comic creators at the peak of his form, with every line a wedding of classicism and cool.Neil GaimanA range of comics creators, such as Eddie Campbell, Dave Sim, Robert Crumb, William Stout, Michel Fiffe, and Warren Ellis, have also highly praised the series.
>>153923699This is a dumb fucking thread. Why would you pretend to read comics? Why would you pretend to be a loser?
>>153926528Isn't there a tranny character in this
>>153926282>Waaahhh he called superheroes gay waaahhh he said niggerLiterally no one has read the Boys. It’s all the same 5 talking points.
>>153933055One of the Palomar characters, a guy named Israel who fucks anything, at one point bangs trannies. This was back in the 80s. I don't think Locas had trannies, and I don't know about the modern stuff.
>>153933162I read it all around the time it ended.
>>153930484Which part? That it's shit or that it's good?
>>153931221lol faggot
>>153935237Bizarre response.
>>153923699Rotating cube posting with other cubes inside them? Gelbooru green text startarotcookiecasuals.Mariesa returned from the antimatter gate and chilling like a neutral party do you want this hallucination in Arabic so you can choke down dinner like a petting zoo animal!?[Ascii]
>>153931436I doubt he doesn't.
>>153932129Ozymandias, with the help of Shea and others, created a living comic book via the false alien, and it was a monstrosity.
>>153923699I read it, I liked it too.
>>153934316On paper it is a good idea to focus on the Arkham Asylum and how Batman can defeat the Riot. But the art and panels make it hard to follow. It looks more like a hardtry horror movie.
>>153935938Even if he does now I sure doubt he was a factor trying to out edge him in 1992 when Ennis was a nobody in comics.
>>153925556I mostly remember the superheroine that looked like Alien
>>153926282>>153933162I skimmed through the entire run one day after hearing about the show, just to get the main gist of it
>>153925707I feel like a lot of media discussion these days is people pretending to hate something because some YouTuber told them too
>>153931455I'd say it's additive but only a singular part of a very complex whole since Moore and Gibbons are doing a bunch of shit both at different times and concurrently leading it to be one of the most detail dense comics made.
>>153926328>Reingorced by Gaiman’s planned ending to Silver Age where she works with Gargunza to take over, because she wants to be a total goddess, and not a benevolent overseer. Mindbroken into being thankful that Gargunza improved her life.Man you can't help but see that shit in a different light after all the bullshit that led to Gayman's career suicide.
>>153926531Plutonian is a dogshit character, I binged the whole thing a few months ago and it's infuriating how all the characters either act like assholes or retards (often both) just because the plot demands it for artificial conflict. Plutonian was the worst because dove headfirst into being a hedonist asshole, they spent a bunch of time showing off how much he regretted that, but the second he has a chance he goes right back to being a massive knobhead for no real good reason.
>>153925999The Destiny bits were great tho
>>153925790>and well put togetherAre you joking?Miracleman is a goddamn mess. The second act goes from brief Alan Davis installments to full-length Chuck Austen issues, then Veitch, then Totleben. The third arc is so fucking rushed it should have been two separate books.
>>153941512Are we seriously talking about messes without bringing up the fact a good portion of Watchmen is devoted to Laurie's meaningless fucking whinging?
>>153941572That's not a mess, that's a woman being a woman. It's apt.
>>153941572I mean, how is it any different from Dan?
>>153941629When Dan talks about super heroes, he's talking about everyone. When Laurie talks, she's only doing it in relevance to herself. >>153941620And all the worse for it
>>153941647>he's talking about everyoneThen isn't he using superheroes as a reference point to help explain his perspective on how he phased out?
>>153941572You've been whinging about Laurie for a few days now.
>>153941026Yeah it's pretty schizophrenic. You can only use "Because he's crazy" as an excuse so many times.
>>153942674>4chan is a single person
>>153942947So more than one person is clinically insane?
>>153923714FPWPIt's the exact opposite. The vast majority of people trashing it never bothered to read it. They watched the movie and read Moore quotes that were spammed everywhere.
I never fully read Miracleman. But from what i know, how much would Alan Moores take today be called out to be an edgy reboot?I mean what he did back than is now common reboot practice. I wonder how much old fans hated it for becoming more adult.
>>153944926probably the part where the mad scientist behind him raped miracle woman and made her the subject of a bunch of rape fantasies
>>153923699This hits too close to home for me. I have the book since 2007, I bought it at a store that closed, reopened in a different location, closed again, got replaced by another store, and that store also closed. The book I have? Still unread. I only flipped the pages to find the meme, and when I found it, it made me laugh. Then I closed the book again, placed it somewhere and it remains in that same place since then,.
>>153925911and listen to this toohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF3JWJksP9I
>>153944954All this edgy raping probably really was something too much for fans of the old series. But overall? It kinda was a reboot with a different “modern“ take.
>>153944965What do you read then?
Wonder Woman (any)
