I feel marvel has way too many superman knockoffs. There are more superman copies in marvel then there are currently alive kryptonians in dc.
>>153955939Are you retarded?
>>153955939>There are more superman copies in marvel then there are currently alive kryptonians in dc.Arguable>Superman>Super boy (Connor)>Super boy (Jon)>Super boy (PRIME TIME BAYBEEEEEE)>Aged up Jon>Super girl>Power girl>Kid Thunder>Those two Kryptonian kids Superman adoptedBout ten Kryptonians disregarding some of the random one offs or Bottle people. Meanwhile for Marvel>Sentry>Hyperion Red Outfit>Hyperion Black Outfit>Blue Marvel>Gladiator>Sungod>That one Skrull that had a superman backstory that appeared in Marvel Knights SpidermanThere are about 7 Superman expies I can remember off the top of my head
>>153956045You forgot the entire fucking Shazam family.
>>153956045would Ikaris count as one for marvel?
>>153956072Neither MARVEL Superman copies or living Kryptonians
>>153956112Could go either way but considering what I've seen he's got the powerset but lacks the kind of obvious character parallels
>>153956045>>Hyperion Red OutfitThat covers at least three different notable guys and a few lesser ones though.
>>153956045Isn't there also the Jesus looking guy for Marvel?
>>153956045You forgot Ikaris, Captain Britain, Count Nefarious, Omega the Unknown and that Jesus looking guy.
>>153956045What happened to the Zods? I know the wife got killed, but I thought Lor was having adventures with Sinestro's son in a way that riffed off of Damien and Jon (young, not gay). And Dru was in space piloting a prison ship from what I recall, although I lost track of the title.
>>153956045>>Super boy (Connor)>>Super boy (PRIME TIME BAYBEEEEEE>Kid Thunder>Those two Kryptonian kids Superman adoptedThose aren't
>>153956045>Super boy (Connor)Hybrid clone who is only 50% kryptonian>Super boy Jon>Aged up JonNot a full 100% kryptonian either>Those two Kryptonian kids Superman adoptedNot kryptonian either>Kid Thunder Who?
>>153956045Connor and Jon are hybrids while the adopted twins are random kids from Warworld I think.
>>153956045How many Hyperions are out there?
>>153956045>Zod>Zod's son, Lor>Non>Faora>Other Phantom Zoners who haven't been in movies>The entire bottle city of Kandor>The entire bottle city of Argo inside KandorAlso Daxamites and Phaelosians are just Kryptonians but lame
>>153958265Non the bandage guy right?
>>153958265What about H'el?
>>153955939That's the least of their problems.
>>153958243A lot. At least six.
>>153955939Select your character.
>>153959876for me, it's the high
>>153956112Ikaris was supposed to be a copy of Orion. Kirby's Eternals were supposed to be a Marvel continuation of the New Gods
What makes a character a Superman? Flight, strength and toughness? Anything else?
>>153960390I've been studying Superman pastiches his mythology, his symbolism and his ideals for a decade now. And I still do not have a definitive answer.There are layers to this... but I'll save it for when I get home.
>>153959876Don't forget the best of all
>>153959876Missing Fairlyhyperman, Super Golden Batman and Suppaman
>>153960521
>>153960390In modern era its usually flying brick, cape, and considered a big deal among their peers. Not all obey this but lesser ones tend to lean even more into making the connection like having spoof costumes or esagerated Clark/Messiah personas.
>>153959876You have such severe autism that it actually is funny.
>>153960390All that and I guess heat vision beams.
>>153960700>>153961011It's a bit more then that.>>153960390>153960425 here. The problem with trying to discuss what makes a character a "Superman" is that Superman is so iconic and so comparable that most superheroes could be seen as a footnote to Superman from different lenses. The other templates would be Batman, Spider-man, Zatara and so on - really old heroes that set particular molds from which later superheroes were developed. And in Superman's case, he developed a very unique & complex mold. One that is so complex, that reinventing him, parodying him and/or reinterpreting him can take all kinds of forms.One of the anons mentioned being a flying brick with a cape and being (somewhat) of a big deal. Superman was always fanwanked to be the strongest superhero in the DC continuity, as Infinite Crisis established him as the focal point of many universes. It is this definition that is the reason why I considered Saitama to be a Superman pastiche. As Deathbattle noted in their many Goku vs Superman, Goku is always evolving as a fighter whereas Superman is already the pinnacle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbAIn this regard, Saitama is a Superman pastiche by being that pinnacle. He started out as a parody of shounen heroes like Goku by no longer needing to evolve further. But by so powerful, he ends up mirroring this mythic status that Superman has. Even if he is unknown in his own world, it his actions at the start that motivated the creation of the Heroes Association in his setting. And, Saitama demonstrated many heroic actions in the series (like the one time he saved a man from suicide)
>>153960377I found them to be quite different, "cold war" vs "god judges humanity".
I like Sentry.
>>153961437(cont.)But being a flying brick is only a start. Because, what else is Superman but also being a human? We talked about the mythic status, and that was something that pastiches like Dr Manhattan and Snyderman played into. (and yes, Dr Manhattan is a take on Superman. Alan Moore intended that for Watchmen, but I'll save that for later)But Superman is also human. He's supposed to have a human side, something that Gunn's Superman reminds us in his most recent movie. The Plutonian worked in this regard by exploring how the human origin of Superman can go wrong. But to me, the best example of this pastiche with a human double identity is Robert Reynolds, aka the Sentry. Like Lois to Clark, Linda is the significant woman in Robert's life. This was an important point in both the 2000 and 2006 Paul Jenkin's runs, as well as the 2008 Age of Sentry series. The Age of Sentry series goes even further, by making the serum that Robert consume contain the essence of a Superman figure from another universe In this sense, the Sentry is an improved take on the Amalgam's Super Soldier - https://amalgam.fandom.com/wiki/Super-Soldier And Super Soldier is a combination of Captain America... Super-Man.It is for this reason that I consider the Sentry to be a Superman pastiche. The design aside, and while the character is more based off Hourman and Miracleman, there is a clear commentary on Superman. In many ways, the Sentry is comparable to the Plutonian, a reason why the two have been paired up so often in matchups.
>>153961497But just being a flying brick with powers, as well as having a human identity is also only a part of being a Superman. There is also the alien identity, and that seems so important in depicting a Superman type.Ennis hates superheroes, but there is one distinction that seperates Superman from Homelander. Homelander was a homunculus made in America, whereas Superman is an actual alien, brought to Earth. While Invincible was visioned by Kirkman to be a Kryptonian with Spider-man problems, his father Omni-man was practically designed after the depiction of Clark at the end of "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" And as well all know, the Viltrumites are practically Kryptonians, just without the heat vision and aversion to red sunlight, magic and kryptonite. Hyperion was depicted as an Eternal who came to Earth, Gladiator was a Shi'ar, and so on. I mentioned the Plutonian, but the Plutonian was the son of two godlike alien beings, who gave their infant a human formI posted Thor in >153960425The reason for this was because this picture was taken from this post - https://nationalpost.com/entertainment/movies/cultural-lessons-of-2013-thor-is-the-new-superman While it seems far-fetched, and one could argue that Thor is more Marvel's answer to Wonder Woman, we should consider the following:1. Prior to Walt Simonson, the Asgardians especially as drawn by the classic Marvel bullpen were not really Norse and were practically alien. They were more comparable to Kryptonians, a reason why the New Gods concept worked so well as a new take on these "Asgardians"2. If you consider the cape, the strength and the mythic status, Thor was practically the strongest Avenger in early MCU. And thus, in a way, was the "Superman"And even 3. If we go by the comics, and the double identity he has a Donald Blake, Thor was similar to Superman in this regard. He had a secret human identity.
>>153961591But even then, a Superman pastiche doesn't have to be alien in origin, despite my previous point. Homelander was literally made "at home". The Sentry was also a junkie who got high on a serum.I mentioned Dr Manhattan, and Alan Moore intended Jon to be seen as the Superman of his world. To show how the mere presence of one superhuman could radically change his world. To quote a newscaster in Watchmen: "The Superman exists, and he is American." >>153960390End of the day, and my point is this: there's so many ways to depict a Superman character that I feel that there is no easy answer to it.I feel like the most definitive answer that was attempted was by Grant Morrison. He wrote All Star Superman, which I consider to be one of the best Superman stories, but he also wrote an entire book on Superheroes: https://www.amazon.sg/dp/0812981383In that book, he identified Superman as a type of Apollonian figure. Practically, a Sun God, guiding Humanity. Its why All Star had so many metaphors and motifs related to the Sun, as well as the final image being Superman repairing that Sun.But Morrison is but one man, and obviously he has his own take. I have yet to researc what is Mark Waid's own take on Superman, and he wrote Kingdom Come. And Irredeemable.I feel like I am barely scraping the surface as to what makes a character a "Superman".
>>153961468Well I mean, Kirby couldn't make them Eternals a one-to-one conversion of the New Gods. Plus he was introgued by the whole Chariots of the Gods pseudoscience book.
>>153961497I always liked when Death Seed Sentry described himself before as "a drug addled man, turned Soldier Supreme by pilfered science". Remender knew his shit.
>>153959552>sixWhat? I lost count after trucker Hyperion and Heroes Reborn Hyperion.
>>153960390Don't forget about dual identity too
>>153959876Black Halo looks more like a Green Lantern expy
>>153956045You left out a lot of Supes expies like Captain Britain, Ikaris, Omega the Unknown, Wundarr the Aquarian and Captain Marvel (both OG and Carol Danvers).
If you're going to count Allmight doesn't Mr. Incredible fit the bill too?I honest count them both. In it's simplest form I think it has to do with being one of if not the most popular heroes in-universe as well as being considered at least the physically strongest excluding hax.
>>153962627There's OG Hyperion, evil OG Hyperion, King Hyperion, bros with Thor Hyperion, the two you named, Mephisto Hyperion, and then I think there was a different Hyperion who threatened to fly at Earth at light speed who got sent to live in a universe completely without heroes (although he could be one of the more recent Hyperions).Supreme Power Hyperion may or may not count since he didn't mix with 616 (to my knowledge).
>>153962762>then I think there was a different Hyperion who threatened to fly at Earth at light speed who got sent to live in a universe completely without heroes (although he could be one of the more recent Hyperions).In MacKay's Avengers? I thought that was Mephisto HyperionAnd he came back at the end when they fought the Battleworld Marvel Zombies
>>153963074That was Mephisto Hyperion
>>153962762>>153963074Mephisto Hyperion is the same that first appeared in Heroes Reborn and was later sent to another universe in McKay Avengers.
>>153962762>>153962762Isn't the Hyperion that was friends with Thor the same one that appeared in Robinson's ANAD Squadron Supreme? The one that abandoned the team after a fallout with Nighthawk and went to travel the country as a truck driver?
>>153959876You put all the Captain Marvel expies but you left out Marvelman.
>>153959876>No Marvelman/Miracleman
>>153956045>SentryHe's more of a Captain Marvel expy
>>153959876Stardust only works if he's the boss character of the game who you can play as Offline after beating the campaign but not Online. At most in lobbies, but never in any kind of Ranked.
>>153965093Funny thing is Ewing did a bit in his Metamorpho mini where Metamorpho becomes the Super Wizard of the future and he is basically Stardust.
>>153965021Also Miracleman. But thing about Sentry is this:- he's got a Clark Kent/Superman dual identity- he's got a Lois Lane going on in Lindy- he's got that bigass S logo and a cape- his motifs are Sun and light oriented (million exploding suns, Golden guardian)The Superman comparisons are not off, even if he's more similar to other superheroes.
bump
>>153956045You forgot Non and H'El
