>>153956565early bump
>milleroh great
>Already done
>>153956651My dumbass forgot to compress the images. Some of them were too big for 4chan.
So Ultimately, the point of the book was just to show Batman could indeed theoretically kill Superman if he so wanted because...? I think Frank Miller used Batman as his avatar stand in against a higher power, David and Goliath, but I think that's a weak surface level showing.7/10
so much wasted ink to convey so little
>>153956869just wanna roll this bitch's notes up and smack her upside the head with em
>>153956903so is this a dig at cyke and marvel?
holy fuck, how many panels does a page fucking need?
>>153956565I think the first two issues of Dark Knight Returns are some of the best Batman put in ink. The next two issues are good, but man the first 2 were something special.
>>153956565GOAT
>>153956975he aged up 5 years in panel 2
>>153956640Seethe brownoid
>>153957446What a great panel. Two face is best as a tragic figure. This panel does a great job at distilling that. And also the fun parity with two face being a facit of batman personality.
>>153957480>I think of Sarah>the rest is easyKINOOOOOOOO
>>153957585this is pretty much a perfect one-page story
>>153957205ENTER
>>153957125look Lois it's Beard from Hotine Miami!>>153957141ok but you gonna pay for that window?
>>153956970Filtered
>>153957186This is what comics are supposed to look like
>>153958009>brappExcellent.
>>153957585kino
>>153958075love that page
>>153958416>whatever's in him rustles as it leaves. the sirens echo through the tunnel... tires screech... the world is growing dark... and cold.pacha.jpg
>>153957954I love how invigorated he is. Dozens of statements saying how age has slowed him down and how he's in agony, and every time we see him his spirit's as strong as it ever was
>>153958662what an odd power to introduce
You think Carrie will ever get dragged into mainline Batman?
>>153958835Maybe as a reference in Beyond
>>153958835Tomasi tried but it was a fake out.
meh
The end.
>>153959077damned fine work, OP
talk about overratedhow much of these classics skirt by novelty alone?
>>153959077Tank you for posting
>>153959077This was a good thread- good enough.
so many Dark Knight Returns fans are finally be able to read it for the first time
>>153959103All of them. Every single one. There are no good comics or cartoons.
>>153957999love that bats restarts his journey as a sociopathic thrill-seeker and slowly gets back that empathetic edge he always had with things like his no kill rule
Personally I never rated Frank Miller that highly, not to mention no other "great" nosedives like he does after a certain point. I dislike a lot of things about TDKR that ended up influencing and becoming core Batman characteristics and I find his Daredevil to be just decent superhero comics for the most part with several to a dozen really dumb elements thrown in.
>>153958339adore the colouring in this panel
>>153959604What are some of your favorite comics?
>>153959376kekwe should get a watchmen stortime started for those fans to read it finally too
>>153959708Why is this always the first reply? Like some sort of defense mechanism where you then try to steer discussion away from the subject at hand to shit on other unrelated comics. Do people not realize how whiny they look when they do that? And don't play coy, this is an old song and dance on 4chan that you've seen a hundred times even if you've only been here for several years. But sure: Saga of The Swamp Thing, Watchmen, Enigma, Shade The Changing man, Sandman, Flex Mentallo, Hellblazer (Delano), From Hell, Nao of Brown, Black Hole, Stray Bullets, Black Dog: The Dreams of Paul Nash. And I could name more if I included european and especially japanese ones.
>>153959787No Batman?
>>153959165Kek
>>153959825For Batman I do like Year One among others like original Alan Grant run, the Morrison run, Milligan's late 80s work, Prey and Shaman, some of O'Neil's 70s issues, the Englehart issues from the late 70s, City of Crime.
>>153958997these extra pages are cool.
Thanks OP
TDKR would be way better with an actual artist plus all the small TV panels removed
Damn, if I wasn't back at my folks' this weekend I'd have shared the poster I got signed by Miller at Megacon.
>>153957533>A shotgun? NO, that is the weapon of the ENEMY!>This big fuckoff LMG? That's MY weapon.
>>153957989Best girl makes her debut.
I thought Carrie was a titcow. Where does that meme come from?
>>153961668Tomasi's run.
>>153957754ENTER
>16 panels per pageI think I understand the intent - the hyper-reality and non-stop banality of the then-new 24 hour news cycle - but it really gets too much for me for pages on end. Claustrophobic and anxiety-inducing. I respect the concept, execution, and determination, but damned if this isn't stressful and exhausting to read.
>>153958576Miller really seems to enjoy this androgynous 13-year old girl with detailed and shapely legs
>>153961668You might be thinking of Steph, the other girl Robin.
I like to imagine Adam West's voice for this Batman.
>>153956856It's weird to see Miller's monologues before they carcinized to Holy Terror level.
>>153956960>we must believe in Harvey DentHE SAID THE THIIIING
I can see where the another Anon is coming from. Saying DKR is the best Batman story is like saying Bohemian Rhapsody is the best Queen song. It's good, it's great, it's ONE of the best, but not the GOAT.
>>153957186There are just as many panels as are required, your majesty, no more nor less.
>>153963335At the same time, it's hard to say a Batman story that's legitimately better at having the same highs. You can have stories that sit your taste more, but are they as wholly great as DKR?That said, for me the best Batman story is Night of the Stalker. The art and storytelling don't stand out to the extent of DKR, but I think it captures an ideal neutral Batman story the best. I would not say it's better than DKR as a whole example though.
>>153959844I like most of those, but TDKR is my favorite.
>>153958835Miller requests they don't, but who knows if anyone at DC would even listen to him anymore.
>>153957313Was literally anyone other than Miller's strawmen seeing Batman as a fascist back then? Not even Moore went that far.
>>153957369>>153957380>GO, MY NONLETHAL DOSE OF NERVE GAS
>>153963975I think it's more of a comment on vigilantism in general, and films like Dirty Harry and Death Wish being called fascist by some critics. I assume Batman was seen as a cartoon character for tots back then
>>153957186womp womp
>>153958416>>153958407I always assumed Batman did kill him and joker's dialogue is just his imagination. I think the movie made it even more obvious
I don't know how people can shit on ASBAR when nearly everything that made that one bad is here in its larval form. If anything now ASBAR feels like Miller taking the piss.
>>153957607>>153957839Nice ass.
>>153958407>>153965587I hate that it took me a youtube comment to notice, but when Joker "finishes the job" his speech balloons are styled like Batman's.
So does /co/ think the animated 2 parter movie did this comic justice or thought the adaptation sucked?
>>153958832selina and alfred's ends were pretty depressing.
>>153968174I think the film does some things better. Like Joker still talking after Bats does him in, though there are people i have met that genuinly think Joker snapped his own neck. Just can't fix stupid I guessThen. There's a panel of Bats shooting a gun at a goon. The film actually shows him shooting the gun out of the hand of the goon. I think the intention in the comic is to have some tention "did Bruce finally snap?" But also, showing exactly what happened cheapens the role of the news. Which is itself an important aspect of DKR.
>>153968429>The film actually shows him shooting the gun out of the hand of the goonRetarded.
>>153968174I didn't like that they made joker's voice sound like a king of the hill liberal parody.
>>153963975Well some more modern hot takes might see Miller's Batman as one.
>>153968822>son of dobNever seen a good take from him
>>153956565Best cape comic of all time. Not even a discussion.
>>153968174Largely bad. Not as truly atrocious as The Long Halloween but still quite bad.
>>153968174All those DC DTVs look like shit, I hate how sterile their art looks. Cold digital coloring, flat lines everywhere, ugly stuff.
its good ill give it that, but it spawned the endless batwank and ruined the beat friendship in comics between superman and batman and basically turned bruce into a bitter man like lex.
>>153965771ASBAR's art just looks so incongruous with Miller's writing as to be almost hilarious. Miller's rough and brutal and almost hastily sketched looking art fits his stream of conscious writing, Jim Lee's art is so polished and corporate, used for marketing all the time that the dialog coming out of really mainstream style looking artwork makes it feel mismatched.
>>153956565
>>153968822the perspective of this is completely bizarre. like you could only possibly make this if btas didn't exist.
>>153956856I just noticed he's talking to Carol Ferris. Huh.
>>153965771ThisIf you like normal Batman, TDKR is already incongruent with that interpretation of the character. Bruce is a sadistic vicious monster, so is basically the rest of the world, Superman is a shill, etc etcMiller killed Batman more than Moore did, his comics led to nu-Batman where we don't have the standard hero adventures we ought to have. Because edginess sells more.
>>153959103Akham AsylumI personally think Year One is close to perfect and Killing Joke and Long Halloween are good, though people REALLY misinterpret TKJ and that's why Moore hates it so much
>>153968822I don't like Miller Batman at all but this is the most retarded take everAlso Miller is as much a woketard as the rest of the industryDobson grew up on BtAS which came AFTER Miller's Batman, and was inspired on Batman '89. He really doesn't have much of a right to actually talk about shit like this when I seriously doubt he has ever read, you know, 70s Batman or even earlier
>>153963699Cool. Happy for you. I think it's everything wrong with Batman.
>>153957565https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ211GBe6e0Adam West reading these three panels was fantastic. I could actually believe Adam West's Batman would become DKR Batman in his older years.
This felt less like a Batman story and more a story about the unquenchable desire to end all crime, and creating an absolute worst case scenario where that desire is allowed to thrive. The Mutants being cartoonishly evil, Two-Face being revealed as ultimately impossible to help, the pundits whining about fascism when it's obvious unwarranted, it's ultimately all in service of justifying Bats being angry, cynical and violent rather than the idealized superhero he's supposed to be.I don't know if Frank is a genius who imagined Batman's hatred of crime would slowly turn him into a lunatic and decided to have fun with the concept, or if he's a drunken uncle using his superhero comic to rant about the soft on crime libs bringing mayhem to the world. He's probably both.
>>153976994I mean only the Mutant leader seems like a complete sociopath, the kinda guy who WOULD rise to the top of a violent juvie gang. All the other mutants basically just need a spanking and a firm father figure. Not all crazy people like Two-Face can be helped, at this point he's been a lunatic for decades.>the pundits whining about fascism when it's obvious unwarrantedOh Boy.And fighting endless street crime and sociopaths in a corrupt old megacity I feel would make you violent angry and cynical. Remember this is Old Man Bats.I feel your main issue is that the Batman character has been allowed to evolve in this story, rather than being regular old Eternally Batman. It's certainly a better evolution than Sneeder Batman.
>>153977104The rest of the mutants don't really get much depth though. Even under Batman they're still psychos, just working for Batman rather than for the beastly mutant leader.>I feel your main issue is that the Batman character has been allowed to evolve in this story, rather than being regular old Eternally Batman.NTA but I think his issue is that it just doesn't feel like Batman. When I think Batman I think Arkham Batman or Year One or Dennis O'Neil or BtAS or Englehart or many of these different characterizations that portray a consistent take on the character.Note that Batman's bitter jadedness is not something that's a result of his old age. As shown in ASBAR, Miller just thinks Batman is insane by default.
>>153977128>The rest of the mutants don't really get much depth thoughThey don't get any at all.
>>153977104Thing is ASBAR and Holy Terror (which was meant to be a bats story) have the same characterization turned up to 11 so I'm not really sure if Miller understood he was writing a grumpy old man or if it was accidental. The "we've always been criminals" line sort of implies his Batman always had a cynical streak.And no, my main issue is that this is a Batman that has been rejected by the wide fandom and industry because he's too bleak. The "approved" Batman evolved by giving every crook a job and turning Wayne Manor into a foster orphanage. So it feels bizarre in retrospective because I assume people back then took this as a valid evolution for Bruce while today it feels like out of character and not basically not Batman at all.
>>153977128The Mutants are the kids of a decaying society, who like Carrie's folks are just letting the kids run feral. There's already enough characters in the story without going in depth on individual mutant kids. And they don't do anything particularly psychotic, it's their leader who's eating people. Rape, murder, theft, that's just inner city crime. They are just living brutally in a brutal world, alongside the inheritors of Batman's rogue's legacy. It's a city that had been plagued by a small army of crazy/evil supercriminals for decades.And the whole premise of being THE BAT and driving your supercar around and hanging off rooftops IS a bit mad-lad. Miller is exploring what the mindset of a traumatized billionaire is like. A guy who has the nigh-infinite resources to tackle Gotham's problems from any angle and decided the best course is to "I Shall Become a Bat" and get into pissing contests with powerful metahumans.Regular Old Batman is just the hoary 18-19th trope of "Wealthy Old Money Anglo Defeats his Savage Environment By Dint of Superior Breeding".
>>153977171ASBAR is a lark, it's Miller cashing in on the huge popularity of TDKR. It's not meant to be a srs Batman comic. It's all silly snark.It's "What if Younger Batman was an even Madder-Lad, wouldn't that be Hilarious". And it was fairly hilarious.
>>153977196>And they don't do anything particularly psychoticThey killed countless innocent, hell they killed the guards holding them in the cells in a very cruel way, right before Batman recruited them. Which was a perfect payoff to the "it's too big" scene I'll say.
>>153977196>18-19th CenturyBatman is just Tarzan and Alan Quartermain and all the rest, throw in Doc Savage, even Zorro. Men of Superior Noble Breeding sorting out the savages/commoners.
>>153977196>And they don't do anything particularly psychotic, it's their leader who's eating people. Rape, murder, theft, that's just inner city crime. They literally do it for kicks. The very start of the first comic has them not murder Bruce because he'd be willing to fight them, and that doesn't scare them so much as ruin the boner they have on murdering innocents because it's funny. That's by definition psychotic. This "brutal world" is not interesting nor developed nor fun, it's an excuse to have barely developed characters.>Miller is exploring what the mindset of a traumatized billionaire is like. A guy who has the nigh-infinite resources to tackle Gotham's problems from any angle and decided the best course is to "I Shall Become a Bat" and get into pissing contests with powerful metahumans.Except that Miller misunderstands Batman like many do. Bruce Wayne spends trillions in fixing the city's different issues, but there are issues that cannot be fixed with wealth. For instance, the crime empires or the overwhelming amount of domestic abuses or the super criminals. The Batman exists for that reason.Being the bat is in order to scare them into submission. Criminals are a cowardly and supersticious lot.>Regular Old Batman is just the hoary 18-19th trope of "Wealthy Old Money Anglo Defeats his Savage Environment By Dint of Superior Breeding".So you are genuinely retarded. Batman's money is purposefully meaningless to him, he spends it all to help Gotham. Bruce is in a situation millions of people suffer daily in Gotham, he could have been anyone else, the difference is that he had the resources to fight back and help people not fall into that tragedy. For fucks' sake, Dick Grayson is a random gimnast, Jason Todd is a street thief and Tim Drake is a random kid and they're all taken in because Batman accepts them as people willing to help him in his war on crime. There is no elitism
>>153977224Firstly, there have been like 3 heckin' Noble Cops in the entire history of Batman comics, most of them are just another criminal gang working for the mayor. They spend almost the entirety of THIS comic being antagonists.
>>153977239>Men of Superior Noble Breeding sorting out the savages/commoners.The commoners are the people Batman is saving. Criminals aren't commoners, they're the evil hurting them.There have been many criminals belonging to the "noble breeding" you speak of. Hugo Strange, Hush, the Court of Owls, the League of Assassins and Ra's, etc. This is really stupid, Batman hasn't ever had elitism. Miller just made a pretentiously bad take on the Bat.
>>153977260>They literally do it for kicks.Yes, as I've said, the previous generation took no responsibility, and let them run feral in the streets, and now they are way past Lord of the Flies. Again, they show this with Carrie, who's parents aren't even poor, but are too wrapped up in their own world to even notice she's out on the streets being Robin.>Bruce Wayne spends trillions in fixing the city's different issuesPlease don't resort to hyperbole and head-canon, I'm not interested. Funding an Asylum with poor security to lock up the most fantastic crazy people is helping, but it isn't "trillions in help".>Batman's money is purposefully meaningless to himIt literally enables his crazy quest, he has every tank, plane, submarine, James Bond weapon, supercomputer, lab ect ect ect the story calls for.I'm sorry you haven't read enough actual literature to be familiar with the Nobleman Hero trope.
>>153977281The cops are the commoners. Many of Batman's villains start as commoners (Joker often one of them) while admittedly a large proportion are Scientists.The premise is that you can crash-land an Englishman of noble birth in a jungle, alien planet or wherever and he'll dominate the natives, beat up the wild beasts and generally sort everyone's shit as he comes from Le Superior Lineage. Zorro is the one Spanish Nobleman who can sort out the entire colony of Mexico, he's just that fuckin refined. (Banderas isn't the original Zorro of course, he's the inheritor, the Robin).
Unrelated but isn't it ironic how the Phoenix Joker movie homages the talk show scene while basically making the opposite point?
>>153958196Joker looking zesty
>>153977311>the previous generation took no responsibility, and let them run feral in the streets, and now they are way past Lord of the Flies. Again, they show this with Carrie, who's parents aren't even poor, but are too wrapped up in their own world to even notice she's out on the streets being Robin.Except this is an extreme caricature of how it'd look like. Lord of the Flies, may I add, is very easily criticized as hyperbole too. These are undeveloped psychos who are psychos for no reason other than "daddy and mommy didn't care for them", because Miller was going for a political satire.>Please don't resort to hyperbole and head-canon, I'm not interestedNo, this is Batman canon and repeated over and over.>Funding an Asylum with poor security to lock up the most fantastic crazy people is helping, but it isn't "trillions in help".Batman does much more than fund Arkham. He constantly donates to charities and makes charities for victims, improves technology necessary for security, helps improve the police force, funds much of the public improvements to the city (which aren't crime-focused but still necessary since Gotham is crumbling) etc. You just haven't read enough comics to see the many where Bruce Wayne is portrayed as a philantropist.>It literally enables his crazy quest, he has every tank, plane, submarine, James Bond weapon, supercomputer, lab ect ect ect the story calls for.That is 1% of Bruce's fortune.>I'm sorry you haven't read enough actual literature to be familiar with the Nobleman Hero trope.This isn't it, chief.>>153977341>The cops are the commonersThe cops are often corrupt. Note that Gordon and Bullock and many of the PD actually are relatively effective.>(Joker often one of them)No, TJK was specifically made to dispell that. Joker and many of the villains were always fucking loony, not commoners. See BtAS "Trial".>he comes from Le Superior Lineage. You are retarded and pushing politics where there are none.
>>153977349His Joker is basically an entirely new character vaguely dressed up Jokerish. Because the writers of Nolanbats could not move beyond "fed up guy wants to blow shit up because Society a Shit."
>>153977375Tbf Miller Joker is also not the Joker. But you are correct that Ledger Joker isn't Joker either nor is Phoenix Joker (the former is more like Anarky, the latter is just Rupert Pupkin from King of Comedy but with an added forced laughter illness)
>>153977394You sound autistic.
>>153977369>Except this is an extreme caricature of how it'd look like.BECAUSE IT IS A COMIC STORY, WITH A BAT-MAN IN IT!>The cops are often corrupt.No shit. Commoners become corrupt in a corrupt system. Even some of the regular civilians are shown to be awful. Almost everyone is awful.>Note that Gordon and Bullock and manyYou can cram the Good Cops in Gotham into one squad car, tightly.Frankly I feel you are in full Arguing for the Sake of Arguing Mode.Just respond to an individual point, you're bullet pointing everything is ineffective.
>>153977409I'm arguing because you're defending Miller degrading Batman into a shitty political caricature and arguing that Batman is "le heckin' oppressive nobleman trope, le poor criminals are all misunderstood" which is retarded.You can like Miller Batman but don't try to shit on REAL Batman by forcing in some politically correct bullshit into it. Nobody wants to hear it because it's total baloney.
>>153977428What you are doing is taking ridiculous offense at a Batman story that isn't even in your precious continuity, and is just a writer trying to approach the character from a fresh angle, and actually trying to look at the madness of the whole thing, rather than just handwaving it into Caper of the Week or "Villain X Takes Over Gotham" story.And then he does a limited riff on it with ASBAR and it really gets your panties into a twist.You just take Batman way too seriously.
>>153977428>but don't try to shit on REAL BatmanIs your Dad real Batman?
>>153958820Man, I wish Alfred properly retired. Screw you Miller!
>>153977470I mean in this comic he lived to be like 100, living in an opulent mansion and later superhero headquarters, helping fight the good fite.He had a good life.
>>153977428show us the REAL Batman
>>153977503
>>153977449I couldn't care less about continuity. I care about what Batman represents as a symbol. It's like Injustice and how it makes Superman evil. It's retarded and faggots only like it because it's new and edgy.>>153977503Just read any of the old Dennis O'Neil or Englehart stories. Alternatively BtAs or Arkham. I mentioned them before, remember?
>>153977524perfection
>>153977487nta but it kind of rubs me the wrong way that Bruce faked his heart attack but Alfred's was for real. Makes him feel disposable.
>>153977525Man, go hug your Dennis O'Neil comics and leave the rest of us alone.Also, take your meds.
>>153977537HE'S LIKE 100! This guy was a middle aged butler when Old Man Bruce was an 8 yr old!He draws down the final curtain on the Old Batman Mythos with a boom, that's a classy exit from the stage.
>>153977560It's not about logic, let me put it this way.Alfred dying same time as Bruce, in a tragic self destruction of the Wayne's legacy? Poetic.Bruce skulking out of the big self destruction to go build a militia in secret? Kind of a dickhead move.
>>153977590It was supposed to be the moment of "Batman is over, this is where I retire to become the Moral Core of the new Generation who will heal Gotham from the ground up".But it was too popular for DC not to demand (unfortunate) sequels, and thus he keeps doing stupid superhero shit with other stupid superheroes.
Reminder that the sequel is a dumb "Aliens Did It" story, and the sequel to THAT goes where inevitably all DC stories end up "DARKSEID (AGAIN)!"DC will endlessly hammer us with Darkseid until we all accept that he's the greatest one-dimensional villain in all of comic books. THE GREABEST!
>>153977669OP should do the sequels.
>>153956565Such a good story.
>>153978089All the sequels do is diminish the original work.It's like asking for the Watchmen spin-offs.
Man, I go to sleep and then someone decided to post the most retarded pseudo-intellectual takes.
>>153978143OP should do the Watchmen prequels.
>>153977409>BECAUSE IT IS A COMIC STORY, WITH A BAT-MAN IN IT!People like you that do autistic micro analyzing and write paragraphs upon paragraphs of midwit crap and then just go "lmao who cares it's just superhero comics lol" are the most obnoxious people around, and you won't change because just like with your dumbass micro analyzating, you just have too high of an opinion of yourselves and will never budge from your position.
>>153978641I have no part in this argument but I gotta agree, the fag you're arguing with comes off as a diamond dozen midwit Redditor.
>>153977669Nightwing is the Joker too, right?
>>153978785It would make sense that Batman is hanging out with The Joker in the future.
>>153978679I'm not the one he was having a back and forth with, I'm a different guy.
>>153957533I used to think DKR Batman is superhuman for years then I learn about amerikan wall
>>153978331How dare people keep up a thread with actual discussion right?
>>153978990Delusional shitposts aren't actual discussion. The Victoriana Anglo Hero hypothesis ignores the implicit and explicit context of the work.
>>153979166Personally I think the original Batman was inspired in part by such heroes but it doesn't mean every "peak human" story is secretly about muh anglo supremacy.
>>153975897It’s small details like that which make TDKR so re-readable. Because the pages are so packed tight small details can elude you on a reading or two and you end up seeing new things on multiple return trips.
>>153965771>ASBAR feels like Miller taking the piss.That’s exactly what it is though.
