>He also did two things the Spider-Man fanbase has not forgiven.

>The first was Sins Past in 2004, the storyline revealing that Gwen Stacy had a secret affair with Norman Osborn before her death and conceived twin children who aged rapidly due to the Osborn formula. Gwen Stacy was the defining innocent of Spider-Man’s mythos, the character whose death marked the end of the Silver Age. The revelation turned her into Norman Osborn’s mistress and retroactively poisoned every memory of her. Reader backlash was immediate and sustained. The story has never been formally retconned despite decades of requests from the fanbase.

>The second was One More Day, the 2007 storyline closing his run in which Aunt May is shot as a consequence of Peter Parker’s public identity reveal, and Peter makes a bargain with the demon Mephisto, sacrificing his marriage to Mary Jane to restore Aunt May’s life and erase the public knowledge of his identity. Straczynski publicly distanced himself from the story’s conclusion, stating that editorial overrode his preferences and that he had asked to have his name removed from the final two issues. The request was denied. His name sits on the issues regardless.

>Whatever the internal dispute, One More Day happened on his watch and under his name. Seventeen years later, Marvel has still not restored the Peter and Mary Jane marriage. The most beloved relationship in Spider-Man’s history remains erased because of a story whose own writer tried to disown it.

>The pattern of Straczynski’s post-2007 Marvel work confirms that his best years were already behind him. His Thor run beginning in 2007 started strong, reintroducing Thor and Asgard to Broxton, Oklahoma and building a compelling new mythology around the character’s return. Then he walked off mid-story. Thor #600 to #603 had to be finished by other writers when Straczynski departed for DC. His Fantastic Four run with artist Olivier Coipel followed the same trajectory, building toward a story about the Thing and then exiting before it concluded.

>At DC he wrote Superman: Grounded, a storyline in which Superman walks across America to reconnect with ordinary people. The concept drew mockery from readers and critics for its plodding pacing. He left that run unfinished as well, with Chris Roberson completing the story. His Wonder Woman run introduced a new costume and a retconned origin that were reversed by the next creative team.

>His return to Marvel produced The Twelve, a prestige miniseries about Golden Age Marvel heroes revived in the modern era, which ran from 2008 to 2012 because of delays between issues. Red Circle launched four DC/Red Circle character revamps in 2009, most of which dissolved within a year. His Thor: The Mighty Avenger mini, his Brave and the Bold run, his Before Watchmen: Dr. Manhattan and Nite Owl entries all came and went without lasting impact.

>His most recent Marvel work was Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty, a 2022 series with artist Jesus Saiz that was canceled at issue #12 after failing to sustain its early sales. The book’s premise, that Steve Rogers’ entire Captain America identity was built by a secret organization called the Invaders, drew negative reactions from fans who saw it as an attack on the character’s foundational mythology.

>Marvel considers him worth a Mary Jane anniversary one-shot. Not worth a slot in the 1000th issue of the title he wrote for six years. The line between those two decisions is the entire story of what JMS did to Spider-Man and what the character has been trying to recover from ever since.

>Was leaving JMS off Amazing Spider-Man #1000 the right call?

>>153981384
Fuck off Arroz

>>153981384
No one blames him for breaking Spider-man, not even Gwen fags since they retconned Sins Past

>>153981810
What about OMD anon that has still not been retconned untill today. I srongly suspect it will never be undone and I do mean NEVER.

>>153982253
Yeah but people blame Quesadilla and editorial for that way more than him, he clearly wasn't a fan of it in the end

>>153982279
Maybe so but that doesn't change the fact the he was the one who wrote it.

>>153981384
He'd probably just write Morlun raping Gwen Stacy's corpse.

>>153982279
>>153982560
JMS wanted to make it worst. He quit the book because Joe Q wouldn't let him resurrect Gwen along with Harry and fully reboot the book to 1970 and completely undo Peter and MJ's relationship.
Basically JMS wanted Mephisto to send Harry into rehab which would keep Gwen and Pete together to then present day, and Spider-Man would be like DC comics today where the writers would pick and choose what happened and when.
Joe Q decided to "protect" the canon and have everything happen as normal except the Peter and Marriage ceremony as seen in OMIT.

>>153982769
A full reboot would've been better instead of this modern version of Peter trapped in manchild purgatory, never able to move forward but never able to effectively replicate the classic teen/college eras, trapped in shit forever and always utterly unfixable. It wouldn't have been good but full reboot at this point is the only way to salvage Spider-man, just start over.

>>153982253
Oh it definitely will be undone, we're talking about until the end of time friend, but not until the current Editorial regime topples. Age and the general bad health of
I suspect we're in for another decade of incredibly and increasingly idiotic comics for a house completely out of ideas. Then the new generation will come in who grew up with the marriage and finally rout the Youth > Responsibility crowd from Spider-Office.

Hell, if you want to be optimistic the misfortune of Disney and synergy/star power of Holland might make it a more dramatic changeover like a DiDio exit of the usual suspects.

We just need everyone involved in BND gone.

>>153982769
Why wouldn't they let Peter get a divorce like a normal person?

>>153982769
If the goal of the story was to fully delete Mary Jane as “the one” then JMS was right in assuming you’d HAVE to bring Gwen back and erase the stories in the late 70s and 80s that cemented Peter and MJ as a solid couple. All OMD really did was throw everything out the window in terms of Peter’s character and progression to turn him into a meek mealy mouthed bitch with nothing to live for outside of self sabotage. The actual ending of OMD hasn’t actually happened, you don’t enter a Faustian bargain and get everything you want. The beginning of BND needed to be aunt mays funeral where she died of a heart attack or something, there isn’t anything in this story that works the more you think about it. I don’t blame JMS for OMD simply because even at the time he publicly protested against it and tried to back out of the issue until queseda pointed out he had to to fulfill a contract. The whole thing just doesn’t work. Honestly the only way you can genuinely seperate Peter and Mary Jane is a whole ass reboot of the universe but marvel didn’t for some reason despite the fact that they did reboot the universe with secret wars just a few years later

>>153982860
Divorce isn't Christian

>>153982860
Divorces are for even bigger losers.

>>153981384
>1000 includes Dan Slott, Brian Michael Bendis, Frank Miller, J.M. DeMatteis, Joe Kelly, and Noah Hawley,
So the issue is going to be 22 pages of Parker getting his ass stretched by a naked black man who speaks only in the best ebonics. Everyone will of course clap and whistle especially all the women Peter has had a date with or even a slight crush on. The issue will end with Peter being pulled behind a horse carriage while all of New York throws trash at him and his villains saying how much their lives ha e improved by hating Spiderman.

"I deserve this." Pete will say every panel. It will be Bendis so this will be stretched into 36 issues.

Really Strazinski should just brush it off. He didnt have to ride the short bus with the other retards.

>>153981384
Maybe because he's a raging asshole?

>>153982860
They believe divorce ages the character, and the philosophy is that Spider-Man is about youth, not responsibility. And they thought it wouldn't play well in the Red States.

So they elected to sell his marriage to the devil instead. But why the need to get rid of the marriage? Why not embrace what everyone familiar with the franchise already thinks?

This regime has been having its way since the goddamn Clone Saga. Hell the clone saga itself only exists because they will do anything other than have a stable relationship for Peter, they would have wrote him off and rode him off. They simply won't let Peter enter any other chapter of his life, and so his life is a pathetic Peter Pan not Parker.
At the end of the day, these are hack writers and middle-aged men just unable to let things go. Marvel Comics is bottom of the barrel sludge anon. Come back in a decade when natures taken its course.

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>>153982769
>wouldn't let him resurrect Gwen along with Harry and fully reboot the book to 1970 and completely undo Peter and MJ's relationship.
>Mephisto to send Harry into rehab which would keep Gwen and Pete together to then present day
What the hell is wrong with these fanatics?
She's been dead longer than she lived, let it be.
Gwen didn't even care for Spidey that much, Felicia has been more supportive.

She was a 7 at most! This whole thing is like watching someone say more salt than they like was added to a stew, then trying to scoop it out by hand. S T O P.

Are they going to bring back Peter's parents too, have them break up then marry Norman and May to complete the whole necrophiliac/cuckoldry vibe?

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>>153982860
They believe divorce ages the character, and the philosophy is that Spider-Man is about youth, not responsibility. And they thought it wouldn't play well in the Red States.

So they elected to sell his marriage to the devil instead. This is the calibre of braintrust here anon. And we have had these bizarre parodies of both MJ and Peter since then, the deal really did hollow out their souls. What kind of asterisks and sub-clauses could a demon sneak into a verbal contract based on "Do it." Their minds aren't their own, because the Spider-Man as written by those who made him popular wouldn't fucking do this or accept this, and MJ wouldn't have been acting as she has for the past few decades as written by self-admitted Gwenfags.

But why the need to get rid of the marriage? Why not embrace what everyone familiar with the franchise already thinks?

This regime has been having its way since the goddamn Clone Saga. Hell the clone saga itself only exists because they will do anything other than have a stable relationship for Peter, they would have wrote him off and rode him off. They simply won't let Peter enter any other chapter of his life, and so his life is a pathetic Peter Pan not Parker.
At the end of the day, these are hack writers and middle-aged men just unable to let things go. Marvel Comics is bottom of the barrel sludge anon. Come back in a decade when natures taken its course.

You know I get that JMS wrote Sins Past, but even he admitted regret over it and had an okay stay on ASM. To snub him from the party and pretend like he didn't contribute like Slott, is a big fuck you. But what do I expect from Marvel? Spencer sure as shit didn't get invited either.

What a miserable, petty office

>>153983276
This entire editorial regime is built on and sustained by spite anon, as it sure isn't sales. It's managed decline just enough to keep the eye of the mouse from them, and shit like Dead Language means they can't even do that right.

>>153983329
But it's not even just ASM. JMS wrote a popular Thor run too. What an incredibly unprofessional work environment

>>153983276
Is he on the MJ 60th anniversary, does that have a different editor than ASM?

>>153983384
He did a Thor story in #750, so the Editorial office controls Thor gave him a paycheck

>>153983276
He legit had the last good Amazing run. And Slott spent a lot of time building on all the magic bullshit JMS added. The entire Spider-verse bit in the comics is built on JMS shit. The owe this dude

All of JMS's stuff is a coin flip, You either getting Kino or Cringe. No in between.

>>153981439
>He also did two things the Spider-Man fanbase has not forgiven.
Well, that's a fine answer there. Write divisive stories, get ostracized to avoid more conflict.

>>153983474
>He legit had the last good Amazing run
I do think Spencer deserves some credit though

>>153983647
Spencer is a 'what could have been' as editorial hammer came down on all the plans he was building towards.
If you are a writer of worth, you don't want to write under this regime. Spider-Office Delenda Est

>>153982854
I think once Dan Buckley is gone and the new guy takes over, there won't be a 616 anymore. Marvel will just make MCU tie-in material exclusively.

>>153984040
Will the MCU exist then?

>>153983745
Yeah but his stories in between like Gibbon, Gog, the moments with Lizard, Randy, Boomerang, Black Cat, cool evil Norman moments taunting Gwen and Peter, were pretty good when taken in a vacuum.

>>153982769
Eh I dunno. I don't know if he wanted to proceed even in the first place. Seemed like he was coerced or something. I can't prove it but given the shady shit Quesada was up to, it seems like it was him trying to not get entirely blamed.
Also JMS's proposal seems so exaggerated and incongruous with everything that it seems like a sandbag proposal where he knew it would show how fucking retarded editorial's choices were and he would then hand them everything on a silver platter but editorial knew it would be obvious they wanted that status quo back but only in spirit. JMS making it obvious that they just wanted a carbon copy would signal to the fans that their editorial is full of bullshit hacks.

>>153981384
He was still invited to the annual meeting of the Seedless Grapes Club.

How late does he turn in scripts that he thought he'd be on the book up until 3 months before

Who cares? 1000 is going to be crap regardless

>>153981439
>He also did two things the Spider-Man fanbase has not forgiven.
>The first was Sins Past in 2004,
Oh, screw all of you homos. It's long past time we accepted this was based, it's a better written story than anything from the BND era onwards, and Gwen's kids were better characters than she ever was.

>>153982854
>people only like what they grew up with
Anon, anyone who's never read a comic book in their life can read the wikipedia article on One More Day and understand how fucked up it is. On top of that, very few people today are picking up a comic book midway to the run and becoming irrevocably attached to "the first thing I ever read." Most people are going online to ask comic book nerds" where do I start?" And on top of that, there are now legal and illegal ways to access a character's entire history, it's not like the old days where you just read what you were lucky enough to get your hands on so the generational divide is even more irrelevant.

Why are people making a big deal about JMS but not Stern or DeFalco?

>153981543
Nobody gives a shit abour your e-celeb hate boner, faggot.

>>153985658
Because they forgot those guys are still alive.

>>153982971
It's frowned on but there are specific instances where it is permissable.

>>153983149
Funny how they pretend to care what red states care about when they dont even know what it is they want anyway. People just wanted Peter to still be with MJ but the miserable shits in Marvel just have to have their shitty life choices map on to Pete so now we all gotta suffer, red or blue.

>>153983276
>To snub him from the party
There is no actual party, to be clear. It's intentionally misleading.

>another shitty culture war content farm blog post
This shit always reads like search engine optimized AI generated spam. You can see content farming tricks like always ending with a question to bait readers and cramming in a shitload of key terms that are vaguely related in the hopes of getting more hits and ranking higher in search results. Garbage.

>>153985680
It's just baffling to me that people would bring up him and Spencer over two of the greatest writers the character ever had. At least JMD is there

It's fucked. Controversial run I get it but to shaft him out of a party. Bad look.

Bring back roommate Michele, that is all.

>>153981384
Joe Quesada is the one to blame for One More Day, not JMS. He wrote it under duress.

>>153985758
>Bait comic, bait acticles and reviewers, reposted to get bait on a dying site

>>153985882
based!

>>153983095
So the other talent can't suck it up for two hours and act like adults while he gets to celebrate the character?

>>153985882
She will be written as a schizophrenic druggie who hits on everyone with a pulse and has a gun

>>153985786
The book itself has been rushed to for arguably the last 10 years. I don’t think that Pete has had a genuinely good anniversary issue since 500. Though I admittedly have no memory of 600 outside of the nice wrap around cover by JRJR

>>153986056
It's just some bullshit set up for Superior with Doc Ock being revealed to have some fatal disease/condition due to him getting knocked around by Hulk, Hammerhead, other superpowered beings while himself being a normal human. That and the wedding of May and Jameson Sr. with it ending in MJ coming back after being gone since the start of BND. Pretty fucking boring. 700 has more going on but it being a centennial is kinda lame.

>>153982769
>He quit the book because Joe Q wouldn't let him resurrect Gwen

and now 20 years later, 616 Gwen is back as a teenage spider themed hero from another reality that used a deus ex macguffin to make herself the default 616 Gwen.

>>153986099
600 was Aunt May getting married to Jonah's dad and moving away to Boston
700 was the setup for Superior
800 was the Red Goblin finale (801 was the sentimental one)
900 was living brain

>>153986238
Grim. But what I meant by set up for Superior is that Slott made him start dying and revealed that in 600 which is what leads to 700 as well.

>>153986030
What makes you say that?

>>153981543
Who?

>>153984188
In 2027? Yeah, pretty sure it will.

When are Brevoort and Lowe getting fired? ZATANNA mogging X-Men is a bad look. MARTAIN MANHUNTER mogging ASM is a bad look. And honestly, I feel like a higher power is forcing them to pseudo-retcon Paul and the Wells-era. I get that the mouse might not care about comics, but Brevoort, Lowe and their lemmings are damaging the brand.

>>153986238
What the fuck was living brain?

>>153989120
The mouse has proven very deaf and dumb to sometimes overwhelming audience and hardcore aversion to people in charge, from Kathleen to the old boys BND crew.
Thing is Disney thought these were money printers, they aren't anymore and it's in part because people who have very clearly overstayed in or should never have had their position... are.
Only time is certain, so we'll get a break, but I still think it's going to be a shitty decade anons. The odd controversy causing a rushed exit could happen, hell a speculator crash is absolutely going to happen, but time is the reliable thing. Only hope is will these characters still be recognizable after this tenure?

>>153981439
Didn't JMS's run end right before OMD? Or was it that OMD was editorial mandate? I can't remember. Either way, I'm not willing to pin that on him

>>153989392
OMD ended his run.

>>153981384
>>153981477
Marywhorefags are so pathetic god damnn

>>153989120
zatanna 1 wasn't good.

>>153989440
Alright, go on and storytime OMD and then give up after two posts faggot, kek.

>>153981384
>He introduced Ezekiel and Morlun, added a mystical totemic dimension to Spider-Man's powers
It ironic that the MCU is actually adapting The Other instead of Brand New Day. Yes, the BND movie is actually an adaptation of The Other in disguise (which is why they're secretive about certain details) but with Hulk instead of Morlun and Punisher instead of Ezekiel.
>interviews are bringing up EVOLVE OR DIE which is The Other's tagline
>Poster leak confirms that Hulk is an antagonist
Instead of Peter having to evolve to fight Morlun, he'll be forced to accept his evolution to stop a rampaging Hulk because the rest of the heavy hitters are busy with Doomsday. Imagine titling a movie "Brand New Day" only for it to be a pseudo-adaptation of a Pre-OMD storyline where Peter gets a win at the end. They're not inviting JMS to ASM#1000 out of jealousy. Post-OMD will never make it to the big screen.

>>153989670
I was about to ask why use Hulk instead of someone else from Spider-Man's villains, but I remembered there's something about having to use Hulk in non-Hulk movies to retain movie ownership without having to pay Universal to make one.
But I also remember hearing that stopped mattering.

I still think they could have just done ignored Sony's Morbius and replaced Morlun with Morbius, the last movie acknowledged there are multiple Spider-Men anyway.

>>153983199
>Spider-Man is about youth, not responsibility.
With Great Power Comes Great......Youth????

>>153985658
Because JMS is the one having his usual tantrum and getting the media outlets involved.

>>153981384
Joe Q and Breevort broke Spidey.

>>153983149
> Spider-Man is about youth, not responsibility.

Anon....

>>153989392
>Or was it that OMD was editorial mandate?
He wrote one more day under duress from Joe Quesada.

>>153985734
Regardless, there's a clear snubbing occurring towards a man that contributed to ASM

>>153989120
I'm happy Zatanna has her own solo series again. Even ignoring ASM, Doom events haven't helped books. Fuck, Strange hasn't had his office/iconic title for a hot minute. Clea, Doom, and now Wanda have all worked in his stead.

>>153982769
You know, as much shit as people give OMD. I really don't know where you'd go with Peter after getting married to MJ. Him growing up, getting married, and raising a kid kind of feels like a natural end point of his character.

>>153990660
I know they're different characters, but Pietro had a kid just fine without it ending him.
I mean, even with the popularity bump from FoX-Men he's still not exactly competing with Spider-Man but that's more a lack of effort than anything from his fatherhood.

I'm not going to discuss his marriage situation. That's just more evidence to the pile of what's wrong, plus it's not like the estrangement made him more of a youthful fan favorite or whatever.

Also I haven't kept up but have Finesse and Luna met? I feel like there's a missed opportunity there.

File: JMS regrets Sins Past.jpg (1.74 MB, 1988x3056)

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>>153983276
>You know I get that JMS wrote Sins Past, but even he admitted regret over it
His true sin.

>>153982860
Because you dont divorce the person you love. The marriage was tough but MJ and Peter were in love. That is the reason Mephisto wanted the marriage.

>>153981384
Almosy Every terrible decision they have made with spidey is somehow related to getting rid the marriage and MJ. They hate MJ and want Peter Pan.

>>153981384
Why is Miller on the book instead some good spidey writer?

>>153990660
Plenty of stories about a man raising a family, decades of sitcoms about that and other stories are there for proof

>>153989392
He wrote OMD and left immediatly after. IIRC he didn't want to write it but was forced to by editorial, and at least by being the one who wrote it he'd spare the next chump a bit of the wrath of the fanbase.

>>153990438
Oh I believe it's retarded as well, it's just what Brevoort and Lowe mandate.
The more responsibility he has, the more interesting he is to read about. As it stands, Peter has nothing but flings and throwaway jobs which is why he is such a directionless, aimless and agency robbed character these days.

>>153990660
Peter balancing being a father, a provider and a Superhero is a nigh impossible if not outright impossible task - but he would try it or be compelled to put on the costume once more due to events which makes events interesting and the consequences real.
You give weight to conflict, as it stands we are going through the motions because Peter is effectively a disenfranchised and disgraced hobo barred from the fields he studied and worked for.

A big issue is the 'youth' argument was shit and has always been shit, but now it's superfluous shit.
We have HOW many fucking Spiders running around 616 now? What the fuck is the point of all of them other than writers desperately wanting an adaptation for their OC?

>>153993290
That's an excuse, also it was posted twice which would indicate an attempt at indoctrinating fans into believing it's necessary.
We get it, Brevoort and Lowe hate the symbiotes and blame Peter maturing for Spider-Man 3 failing
It's also clear that Midnight's reimagining was made to fit into editorial constraints

>>153993601
I wonder what panic buttons will be pressed when Midnight goes over like a lead balloon compared to Absolute, Ultimate continues to be the dead series that sold more and the next apocalypse event is an almighty shrug.
Bright side, never been a better time to be rooting for change, the rot has gotten terminal.

>>153993680
Midnight falsely assumes that the redesigns were the appeal, not the fact that the new versions of characters had standalone reimaginings which stepped outside of previous mandates
I still hold suspicion to the fact that anons get defensive towards the mandates when you bring up Sony's enforcing of them

>>153982854
> Oh it definitely will be undone, we're talking about until the end of time friend, but not until the current Editorial regime topples.

Keep telling yourself that friend, they don't give a shit about anything about the character personally, Peter is a money whore for them until the end of time and they know Peter never getting married means unlimited stories to tell forever since the characters gets popular the more he's shit on for the average Joe to relate to each new generation. His cuckolding keeps him eternally profitable.

>>153993813
I'll defend the mandate that dictated that Spider-Man can't be gay

>>153990438
Spider-Man is kid appealed responsibility not adult, otherwise he'd be leading the Avengers and no longer a minimumwage working or secret hiding beta male with a imbalanced life and a completely well adjusted adult with a high paying job balancing his superhero and normal life career successfully.

>>153994277
>>153994257
So many goalposts being moved to claim BND was good for the sake of being contrarian
You're trying to make posters go see the new BND movie and stop thinking about the comic, aren't you

>>153994301
It's funny because like most of the comic adaptations to the screen the idiot stink had to be flushed out.
Civil War didn't have negative zone jails without trials, the BND adaptation isn't going to start with Peter happy and clinking drinks with his 'friends' as his soul has just been damned. Peter is going to remember and yearn for what he had and lost, which is actual drama. The kind we don't have due to the BND manchildren writing a Peter Pan manchild.

>>153994301
Hey whoa now just because I said Spider-Man shouldn't be gay that doesn't mean I advocate for BND although I do think it's the last time they actually tried to use the supporting cast

>>153982971
>Divorce isn't Christian

Guess what else isn't Christian
Deals with the FUCKING DEVIL

>>153994896
Even if the writers didn't intend to, Peter and MJ really marred their souls and lost their characters to the deal. They are simply not the same people they were, they lost a lot more than a relationship, everything about them prior to OMD reads so much differently to this weird Flanderized version they are now.
Seriously, just saying to a Demon 'do it"? Fuck kind of negotiation was that Peter? Complete carte blanche for him to put whatever fucking mind control strings on them, and MJ whispering some don't mess with him again nonsense was a paper-thin nothing to a Demon.
Hell, she didn't say don't mess with me. Maybe that's why she's become the most character assassinated since OMD? A hollow person who lacks the strength to be a Superheroes confidant and support she used to have. Mephisto is in her brain 24/7. Since Mephisto is the editors, it's true.

>>153982769
I mean hindsight is 20/20 but Spidey has been spinning his wheels for two decades, Gwen came back anyway, and I see more anons wishing for a reboot than not...

Why they should bring him?
It was the first writer who ignored Peter's friend and rogue gallery, introduced the totem that later Slott and Sony used for spiderverse.
Obviously is not his fault that Quesada was a manchild,but why talking about him and not Stern, Micheliene(for a venom/Peter team up),Busiek or DeFalco(for a Spidergirl special)?

If Peter Parker wasnt a super what would he be?
Doctor?
Detective?
Scientist? (What field?)
Photographer turned filmmaker?
Teacher?

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2.84 MB JPG

>>153983647
>AIIIIIEEEEEE SAVE ME SISTAH FROM THIS SILVER SABLE ROBOT
>AIIIIIEEEEEE SAVE ME MJ , KINDRED IS KILLING ME
>AIIIIIEEEEEE SAVE ME KRAVEN, RHINO IS BEATING MY ASS.

>>153990660
>MJ pregnant
Drama about risking life/dying and not being able to take care of his wife
>MJ giving birth
Fighting crime or some major crime event comes up that needs his attention, race to not miss the birth.
>raising young daughter
How does he balance work, family life, crime fighting? Hell, now that they have 50 extra Spider-people, have him switch to a mentor/parent like role for one of the younger ones. Have Miles actually earn his hamfisted adulations under Peter's guidance.
>daughter is older and has spider powers
Has to deal with her child to teen antics and teach her how to use them responsibly
There's a boatload of stories for a grown-up/married/dad Peter where he still maintains an active/semi-active role as Spider-Man, no need to make him exactly like MC2.

JMS's last Spider-Man mini was awful, so he was worth rejecting for being a bad writer.

>>153982860
https://www.cbr.com/the-one-more-day-interviews-with-joe-quesada-pt-3-of-5/
>Sure, that would have been a very easy solution. However, how would a parent feel when they had to explain to their kid that Spider-Man just got divorced from his wife? How would that headline read across the AP or on USA today? The same can be said with an annulment. Sure, divorce is a reality of life, but Peter Parker and Spider-Man are not the types of characters that would do that. Spider-Man is a worldwide icon and is considered one of the good guys, like Superman. There's always the option of killing off MJ, but over the years way too many key characters in Spider-Man mythology have been killed off. Much like the marriage, those deaths hurt the book. The Spider-Man books were better with Harry in them, as well as Norman. Also, how much older would Peter seem as a widower -- yikes!

>>153995562
It writes itself, which is why its absence has meant the character and ongoing has been treading water for so long. What they fuck do you do once a character once with agency and progress is frozen in amber? Secret cousins. Steadily turn everyone of Peter's classmates from his old school days into villains or supers. Just keep mining the same barren mountain for whatever you can, and churn out more Spider-variants.

>>153995645
Did it occur to Joe he could have just started another Ongoing with a young peter? If there really was an audience for his forever haloed school days Peter then it would have sold, he didn't need to torpedo fucking everything with a literal Faustian bargain.

>>153995645
Are they insane or just playing dumb? How can they sincerely believe that divorce is a harder concept for children to swallow than people selling their love to Satan?

>>153985886
>>153990454
https://www.cbr.com/the-one-more-day-interviews-with-joe-quesada-pt-2-of-5/
>Joe signed on to do One More Day and he was a part of the creative sessions that helped create the idea of it. How it played out in the end -- the science behind it -- was where we disagreed. I mean if Joe had disagreed with the idea of removing the marriage, he would have absolutely refused to write the story, which would have been fine either way. After so many brilliant years on Spider-Man, Joe had earned the right to end his run whichever way he wanted. One More Day is a story we could have told once Joe was off the title; the fact that he wanted to tell it was, the way we saw it, just an added bonus.

>>153995681
The BND cabal is running on spite, not sales. ASM sells, but it no longer is the juggernaut nor does DC fear it. Every single argument for the change wasn't born out over the course of time, every other much more lucrative aspect of the franchise ignores it and gives it to Peter and MJ.
It's just a petty fiefdom protecting it on purely ideological grounds, because to admit it was a mistake now means you've been fucking wrong for decades.

>>153995678
He really did have a response to every argument in this series of articles
https://www.cbr.com/the-one-more-day-interviews-with-joe-quesada-pt-3-of-5/
>And let me say that while our Marvel U Spider-Man will be single like "Ultimate Spider-Man," it's a whole different vibe because our Marvel U Peter is a much more seasoned and mature person. He's a already a man; he's not 15 years old and in High School, so his relationships will be much more sophisticated yet completely Peter Parker-ish.

>Here is the question that I have posed over and over again and no one has given me a logical answer to: outside of having kids (which I never would have done with Peter and MJ in the first place) or divorce/annulment (which is another thing I never would have done) is there a story that I can tell with a married Peter and MJ that I can't tell with a Peter Parker who is just dating and deeply in love with MJ? There isn't a single one. Every story you can tell works just as well if they're married of just dating and in love.

>Now, let me ask the reverse: Are there any stories that I can tell with a single Peter Parker that I can't tell with a married one? You betcha! And therein lies the problem and the irrefutable logic. While the marriage is absolutely the logical progression for a character like Peter Parker, so is having kids, having grandkids, growing old and dying. Would we -- better yet, should we -- go that far? Of course not. So why isn't getting married too far? Simple: Because a lot of people have grown accustomed to it, indeed, attached to it -- and that is understandable. But it wasn't the healthiest long-term scenario for the character. Each one of those life progressions (marriage, child, grandkids, etc.) cuts Peter Parker and the Spider-Man books off from the story-trappings that have been the bedrock of great Spider-Man stories.
>>153995681
Mephisto isn't Satan. Damian Hellstrom is the Son of Satan, a different character.

>>153995750
That's the most bat-shit insane self-citing line of reasoning. Joe. You want to write those bachelor and swinging stories? DO THEM. You have one-shots, you have alternative universes, you can just do flash-backs for the entirety of a run fuck. There was an entire gulf of options before your faustian bargain sunk and overwrote with crayon twenty years of comics. Fucking hack fraud.

>>153995783
>The truth of the matter is that if the fans truly want a married Peter and MJ with kids, then we have an incredible book called "Spider-Girl." If this is truly what fandom wants, to see Peter go through the natural progressions of life, then I expect orders on "Spider-Girl" to go through the roof in the next month.
Orders did not go through the roof.

>>153995792
Peter was goddamn retired in Spider-Girl. Bung knee and everything, we jump-cut the entire progression there to a whole new setting.

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>>153995841
That's the natural progression of a middle-aged Spider-Man. He's not going to be risking his life out there anymore, though he he did have one-issue midlife crisis and got immediately stomped back into retirement by Kaine.

>>153981384
MarywhOreFagsisters, we are being laughed at again

>>153995413
Of his own interests biophys or biochem scientist.

>>153995413
Biochemistry like Connors.
Never got why people want him to be a teacher, the first moment a villain attack him in his school he would leave.

>>153995203
Also by this point ending BND would require an evil Peter from the future who went insane from trying to stop May's death loop

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>>153995750
>outside of having kids (which I never would have done with Peter and MJ in the first place) [...] is there a story that I can tell with a married Peter and MJ that I can't tell with a Peter Parker who is just dating and deeply in love with MJ? There isn't a single one.

>>153995792
Quesadilla misunderstands and is intentionally being retarded in this case because there is a substantial glut of readers who probably weren't reading it and catching up to Spider-Girl like that immediately is basically asking a bunch of readers to jump in without knowing anything or knowing the stakes or appeals of the book and blindly trusting which is the same as blindly trusting BND. Look what happened. A bunch jumped ship completely because who knows if they would also cancel Spider-Girl. Which they did eventually. One had a loyal audience, the other didn't because one respected the investment of readers who stuck it out.
Quesada's direct cause and effect thinking here that automatically assumes one line of reasoning across a whoe base of readers is convenient and it assumes that his own decision of removing the marriage wouldn't also have some direct effects. The thumbhead fuck couldn't fathom why people enjoy writing and that if you play fast and loose, you get people who will forever call you a faggot for basically being retard when it comes to your very simple job.
>>153995978
You, faggot, have still not done what I pointed out here >>153989591

>>153982860
Because Joe was a divorcee and a gutless fuck.

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>>153996427

>>153995792
>>153995750
I think I partially get his point there. If Peter and MJ are allowed to mature an develop, then developing the story is no longer off the table, and from then, you eventually turn into a story so far removed from the evergreen that a casual reader will be alienated entirely.
The problem is that it makes the existing cast boring or infuriating to read, but the twists they do add are so far removed from the evergreen that it's jarring, and new fans are either going to be so intimidated by the #1000 issue number carrying a presumption of a backlog that they're not going to pick the book up, or they're going to accept that and expect the story to have progressed in a way that the evergreen would suggest, in this case being that MJ and Peter are together.
They wanted a win-win but made a lose-lose.

>>153996438
If the buyers truly cared about Spider-Man being married, they would have boycotted BND and put Spider-Girl on their pull to send a message. Instead, Spider-Girl sales kept going down after OMD. And the total BND sales outperformed the total Back in Black sales of ASM/SSM/FNSM for over a year until they dipped lower.

>>153996686
Nigga you're forgetting about the huge drop in sales that happened. Also the bump back up will always occur when something like BND happens because new readers given a "on board ramp" will jump on that and then stick it out to see if they like it.
>until they dipped lower
Didn't think I would notice that did you? Yeah that's what stunts do. They kill your book when people realize there is no substance. Back in Black was also tied to the maligned SM3, was a little melodramatic, and led to OMD anyway. It still has good parts in spite of all that. BND sucks cock.
Also the average reader back then probably wasn't as tuned into comic news and didn't see this specific quote of his to vote with their wallet. Spider-Girl sales also continued until the 2010's, even with a reboot of sorts. BND got ditched only after like 2-3 years.

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>>153996749
There was no huge drop of total monthly Spider-Man sales. You're being tunnel visioned about the particular sales of Amazing Spider-Man.
>Yeah that's what stunts do. They kill your book when people realize there is no substance.
People just naturally get bored with long runs. This was around the period when Marvel started relaunching everything within a few years to fight the run fatigue. BND was ditched because shipping a book three times a month is a lot of work, it wasn't something they could keep up forever. Even doing it twice a month for as long as they have has resulted in a lot of quality issues.

>>153995958
what a prick

>>153996832
>total
>tunnel vision
Then what are we talking about here? Going by your lack of talk around Spider-Girl then the point you chose to focus on implies Spider-Girl was doing better than ASM which it wasn't since the main book will always have more because it is the legacy book and those who stuck it out will always buy the next book. Next you'll say then, that the marriage doesn't matter because those readers will still collect. But then you must ask yourself what are the reasons why people even bought it at first. OMD faggots will say it is youth and being a teen hero. Even though Teen Titans, X-Men and more exist. Then you'll say it's him balancing his supporting cast and superheroics, even though the marriage was a significant part of that dynamic and that was a canary in the coal mine as the cast got phased out and Lowe got fucking retarded and made everyone a hero.
>people get naturally bored with long runs
Yeah that's what shit like revamps are for that stick to the original appeal or remix it. Instead we got all subtractice actions taken by editorial with nothing additive. Name me any BND characters who are interesting and who are organically are liked by ASM fans and are not pushed solely by faggots like Brevoort, Quesadilla, Lowe, or Slott. Yeah I sure like Quesadilla's daughter being made into Carlie, what a prime piece of fuckmeat, she surely will be a good love interest for Peter...oh wait you said it's quesadilla's daughter? And she is milquetoast? Ugh...nevermind.
>quality issues
Ok so then you admit it ultimately turned out to be shit and justified why Quesadilla is a faggot and Brevoort's grand keikaku turned out to be the out of to much ramblings of an old man who never really got Spider-Man akin to Dobson never understanding any piece of media.

>>153990660
Look at Superman, he's married with kids now and he still has stories

>>153997015
>subtractive
>out of touch
Fucking typos. Anyway, also the other appeals of Spider-Man is Peter Parker and his villains. Those also got diluted and hamstrung over time as well as any stakes that used to exist.
Long runs also cause people to get bored because writers tend to lose ideas/motivation over time because people lose energy over time. However that doesn't give editors the excuse that they can just put the genie back in the bottle and think that they can do it so haphazardly if they try to. They had to put effort into it and they didn't.

>>153996832
Anon, there is a reason the release ASM twice a month.

>>153997024
Hal Jordan is married, HAL, which has been with Carol as a couple less time MJ and Peter married

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>>153997015
>Going by your lack of talk around Spider-Girl then the point you chose to focus on implies Spider-Girl was doing better than ASM which it wasn't since the main book will always have more because it is the legacy book and those who stuck it out will always buy the next book.
Ultimate Spider-Man was doing a lot better than Amazing for years.
>Lowe got fucking retarded and made everyone a hero.
He has been a poor editor, yes. The books were better under Brevoort and Wacker.
>Name me any BND characters who are interesting and who are organically are liked by ASM fans and are not pushed solely by faggots like Brevoort, Quesadilla, Lowe, or Slott.
Nora was fun, as were Vin and Michele. No more worse than any of the random neighbors and acquaintances Peter had from the 70s-00s.
>Ok so then you admit it ultimately turned out to be shit and justified why Quesadilla is a faggot and Brevoort's grand keikaku turned out to be the out of to much ramblings of an old man who never really got Spider-Man akin to Dobson never understanding any piece of media.
Single Spider-Man could be good again (I don't see anyone complain about Zdarsky's Spectacular run the way they do about Slott, Wells, and Kelly), the issue is a tired editor with lousy ideas and creative team choices and a twice a month schedules that hurts both the art and writing and limits the options of who even wants the job (most people don't want the workload, even Slott said he's never going back).
>>153997024
DC has recently written Superman out of the books yet again and had him replaced with Prime, who's getting a lot more discussion. After a few arcs, married middle-aged Superman just gets too boring to hold most peoples' attention. "Don't be like DC" has been the Marvel ethos for decades. Absolute is blowing up the charts because they made their characters more like Marvel's yet again, most of the line-up is being written by those who started at Marvel first. I like DC, but it's where the failures go.

>>153981384
The other writers should boycott the party if they had any integrety

>>153995413
>Doctor?
Could be interesting, but idont know how a mudical drama would play out in a comic.
Detective?
This is a good one. Do we want an action comic like lethal weapon? Or hard boiled Noir thriller?

>>153997239
>DC has recently written Superman out of the books yet again and had him replaced with Prime
No? Snyder ended his event with Superman MIA so Williamson needed to use Prime.
Which is not gonna last, already gonna appear in the summer event.

>>153995658
Exactly. It's wild that Marvel's most popular character has been getting the shaft this bad for this long.

>>153997239
>Ult
Yeah and MJ and the actual plot moved forward as well as Peter as a character just at a much slower pace.
>Brevoort and Wacker
They sucked too and Peter was OOC all the time. They only know how to make clickbait in terms of writing.
>Nora, Vin, Michele
Other than Nora, you're fucking with me. They did not appear that much and Michele is a nothing character as much as Shay is.
>Single
Yes it could. But all writers and editors know how to do is formulaic and hackish TV relationship drama that is all faggot shit that gets in the way of interesting characters and action.
Tom's idea is not perfect but that book shows that it could be justified over time and his writing in general focuses more on the characters anyway which imo is Marvel's strongsuit as well as comics in general. Comics in a TV-like format where you can get to know characters over a long time and see more subtle and gradual changes. Sure we all agree shit needs to be justified and Glenn is right that those need to be addressed and Tom agrees but he's saying that they can work it over more later. Brevoort is the type to just not care at all. Glenn is also the one who came up with the Mephisto angle anyhow and I still think it is retarded. So yeah I dunno why you also included that image.

It shouldn't require walls of text to admit editorial is wrong

>>153997829
Yep. But these fags are very dense and need to be cornered into their fallacies and that sometimes requires the definition of the appeal of Spider-Man which can be a bit unwieldy.
It also requires the dismantling of their favorite "muh sales" argument which time and again has been disproven, most chiefly with the recent Ult run. Damn that was satisfying. Also Lowe and Brevoort are fucking snakes who use very inconsequential and retarded arguments that require every point to be dissected and disproven to show their incompetence and trying to get someone to be sacked requires a lot of "just cause," otherwise, you get a lawsuit on your hands. Marvel and Disney have a lot of evidence of their incompetence that would satisfy them being fired but because they knew how to publish books in the 00's I guess that means they have "experience" even though sales have only gradually dwindled under their leadership alongside Quesadilla and Yoshida.

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>>153995750
And all this cope is just to excuse one of the dumbest fucking stories of all time.

>>153995841
>>153995958
I think you could probably work up to 40-ish year old Pete still doing crimefighting alongside Mayday.
Have any of the younger Spider-people occupy his "waaah I'm a young adult loser" role in the interim, everyone is happy.