>>154007182
Yes.

>>154007182
Perhaps if the immortal and eternally wise lion turtle and incredibly powerful bending technique that none of the thousands of years of Avatars knew about had been foreshadowed in any way, it would’ve been fine

>>154007182
IMMA FIRING MY LAZER

>>154007238
There was a picture of one in the spirit library.

just have Ozai retreat flying but his firebending/comet fails him and Ozai drops midair, Aang can't reach him on time and then Ozai falls very bad into the ground becoming quadraplegic

>>154007323
That'd be even lamer.

don't have the entire series lead up to aang being a moral coward in every respect

The rock conviently hitting Aang in a specific spot on his back to restore the Avatar State was worse.

>>154007182
It was also entirely unnecessary, Ozai was a powerful firebender why is his bending important? Arguably Iroh and Azula are stronger fire benders. He was only a threat because he was the firelord, the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. Once the avatar smacks him and Zuko takes over, he is no longer a threat, or at least no more of a threat than any other powerful fire bender which the fire nation is probably full of. And Ozai was at the complete mercy of the Aang in the avatar state, they could have just restrained him and incarcerated him and that would be the end of that. The whole 'the only possible solution is to kill him' is something that the show makes up for no reason.

>>154007686
Yeah, I think at some point an episode where Aang reconnects with the Avatar state got cut or something. Probably because the writers realized that if Aang is given the ability to just go into the avatar state then there is no conflict, the avatar state is just sort of overpowered. And this became a gigantic issue in Korra where she had to be done dirty innumerable times just to keep the stakes, because otherwise its just 'Avatar state, problem solved'.

>>154007182
Yes. The latter half of season 3 completely ruined the series.
The only saving grace is sexy crazy azula

>>154007790
While you're right there could have been other solutions, like incarceration and deposing him, that would cause political problems like Ozai loyalists. Of course that could be said to happen regardless, but if the fire lord isn't an elite fire bender he loses legitimacy I reckon. Could have done interesting things with the state of the fire nation after the war but we instead got Toph wanting to fuck a forklift driver.

>>154007947
>if the fire lord isn't an elite fire bender he loses legitimacy I reckon
Sure, but there was also Azula unless the argument is that she was so widely disliked that she lacked any loyalists. And surely there would be high ranking powerful firebenders in the army to whom your argument would also apply.

I had no idea this ending is that much disliked,I thought it was decent enough. A fair conclusion and I liked better the taking away his bending rather than just imprisoning him or whatever. Guy got deservedly humiliated into oblivion and was kept alive to suffer

>>154007182
the question of killing/sparing him only comes up near the very end. What was the plan during the invasion? Setting up a dilemma and having the protagonist get handed the solution on a silver platter is lame. They didn’t mention it in the show itself, but the pitch bible and Korra clarify that only the Avatar can do this, which makes it even worse.

>>154007974
>And surely there would be high ranking powerful firebenders in the army to whom your argument would also apply.
And that sounds great, but maybe I just want everything to be Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

>>154007182
I think Aang should figure out this technique on his own, rather than relying on some kind of a giant spirit's deus ex machina.

>>154007790
The Fire Nation is nationalistic. It respects power, honor, tradition, etc.

Just capturing the Fire Lord Ozai would mean that the nation would be full of conspirators trying to free him and get rid of Zuko. Ozai had to die or in this case be so incapacitated and broken spiritually that he could no longer lead others for Zuko to actually take over.

Same applies to Azula. Given the choice the Fire Nation citizens would follow her instead of Zuko, had she not gone crazy.

>>154007182
Yes and no.
It keeps to the mythology of how bending works, but there was zero build up to Lionturtles.

It just happened at the right time at the right place.

>>154008471
Do you mean to imply that ALL fire nation citizens are nationalists or just the military side are?

And

Azula isn't/wasn't crazy.
She had a mental breakdown from years of keeping a perfect image and the betrayal of her "friends" that added severe paranoia.

And 14 years old.

Retroactively ruined the entire franchise. I went from loving this series to hating it for the rest of my life just based on this, and western animation in general if I'm being honest.

In the end, it was a show for toddlers; that's all the west can manage.

>>154008511
>Do you mean to imply that ALL fire nation citizens are nationalists
Of course they are. It's their culture. They're even indoctrinated in school to think they were the good guys during the war.

Why do you think Zuko was so obsessed with honor? It was their culture. Honor and respecting one's father was a huge part of Fire Nation culture (just like it was in medieval China) and especially respecting the Fire Lord.
>Azula isn't/wasn't crazy
Yes she was. Whether it was due to her upbringing or the stress she was never emotionally stable and the breakdown she had is not the kind of thing a person can simply get over.

>>154008549
>Retroactively ruined the entire franchise
And then Korra happened

>>154008561
>Why do you think Zuko was so obsessed with honor? It was their culture.
Royal family? His father and uncle's teachings?

>she was never emotionally stable
Because her environment demanded perfection and never let her not worry about falling short.

>>154007182
It's a copout that came out of nowhere. The lion turtle was mentioned once and the ability to remove bending was never brought up before. Aang was presented a moral dilemma and someone else comes out of nowhere to hand a solution. And then there's the rock to the back.

It wasn't that bad for me when it came out. It just kinda happened but I was also a teenager so my capacities for critical media analysis weren't particularly established.
But in retrospective it wasn't really a high point of the series and it throws a lot out of the window needlessly as other anons pointed out.
You just know it would be mercielessly shat upon if it was released today.

>>154007182
Wouldn't have been bad if it had gotten more buildup time. But as it is, the final confrontation felt like kind of an asspull for Aang to finish the story without killing Ozai.

>>154007182
I like the idea of it, the only things i would fix is how Aang reconnected with the avatar state without it being a random rock hitting his chakra/Qi.
And maybe made the whole lion turtle thing a two parter, showing how deep Aang was going to strive to find a non-lethal solution.

Ozai being reduced into a benderless normies is very effective, since it castrate the whole nationalism running in the fire nation.

The chad avatar turn your strong leader into a weak normie
Such a weak normie spiritually lost against the supreme lord of the four bendings
Now he is so depowered he would be useless even as a pawn for a civil war


And so Ozai is reduced to nothing than a weak prisoner not even his old supporters would care for since he has no use

The entire point of the like, fifth or sixth episode is how there's always an alternative way to solve things that isn't immediately obvious.
Did they fail to set up Energybending at all? Yeah. Did I get mad about it? Not really.

>>154007182
yes, it was an asspull of Korra standards
but at the same time, most of S3 was poorly paced anyway.

I thought it was fine. A bit cheap and lame, and they clearly just had no idea what to do with Katara, but eh.
At the time it annoyed me that Aang was given an "out" where he got to put his personal beliefs above his duties, but on reflection I think that's a good conclusion to his arc, because his whole thing was that he never got to just be a person, because he had to be the Avatar. This was him melding both of those identities, rather than sacrificing one for the other (which is a mirror to what he does with Ozai, not sacrificing him or his victims but finding a way to force them to co-exist).
And while energybending felt like it came out of nowhere, they did talk a lot about chi etc throughout the series (which probably means they could have set it up a lot better than they did via the bending lessons all throughout the show, but still).
Fuck that rock though lmao

>>154007182
I don't think Aang should've won a willpower battle against Ozai. Especially when just like 2 episodes ago he was so mindbroken that he could not sleep and the entire cast had to build him a bed.

>>154008511
>She wasn't crazy, she just had mental breakdowns
Anon the fuck do you think crazy means

If it was earned maybe but it’s basically just Aang sidestepping the discussion at the last minute because it’s a children’s show

>>154008511


I’m not really going to weigh in on the Azula thing though.

As a student, and graduate, of Political, however, I nonetheless get incensed at the incorrect use of the term “Nationalist”. No, in the original series, the Fire Nation were not “Nationalist” they were Imperialist. They wanted an Empire. They were content with ruling over the conquered peoples, or nations, of the Earth Kingdom. Were they Chauvinistic about their People vis a vis other Peoples? Yes, but only insomuch that their Nation was to be Suzerain over other Nations.

They’re Nationalists within the setting, don’t get me wrong. The first, unnamed Firelord Really? We can retcon Jin’s story but we can’t give a name to the first Firelord? that unified the Fire Islands was a nationalist. Kuvira, who wanted to unite the Earth Kingdom and have it so it’s for only ethnic Earth peoples, is a nationalist. Arguably, Aang, Tenzin, Katara, and Tonraq are nationalists. As for the former two, they want to revive their nation and for the latter two Katara her people and her culture over that of the Northern Water Tribe, explicitly, and implicitly when it comes to the Swamp Benders. For Tonraq this is all the more overt as he fights for the Southern Water Tribe to remain politically Independent of the North.

File: consider the following.gif (1.78 MB, 416x320)

1.78 MB GIF

>>154009552
Ozai was winning the willpower battle until the last second when Aang suddenly dominated Ozai in an instant. Which means Aang probably used the avatar state in that moment. Ozai can't win against the collective willpower of all the past avatars channeled through a god spirit.

>>154008897
>Nationalism in the Fire Nation

You, simply, cannot be an Imperialist and a Nationalist. It’s oxymoronic. The Cost, and nature, of Empire makes it inherently contradictory. Simply put, an Imperialist rules over many nations wherein a Nationalist rules and concerns himself with one. An Imperialist, of course, can be ethnically and culturally Chauvinistic but by the very nature of being an Imperialist simply cannot be called a Nationalist. The Fire Nation were Imperialist and they were Supremacist, but they weren’t Nationalist.

>>154010633
>You, simply, cannot be an Imperialist and a Nationalist. It’s oxymoronic
So for instance those Nazis. They weren't Nationalists I guess because they intended to conqueror the world.

>>154010633
What are you talking about? Imperialism is always draped in nationalism.
Did you mean isolationist?

>>154007182
I thought it was a pretty good ending all thing considered. Like other people have said, maybe setting up Lion Turtle better but it was thematically fine.

>>154008493
Also this didnt became a problem til fucking korra and the comic book raped the setting.
All for the lesbian antichrist spirit who hates men

>>154010653
>The Nazis can’t be Nationalist because they were trying to conquer the world

Anon, that was a cartoon caricature only really taking semi seriously at War time propaganda. No, the National Socialists, were not trying to “Take over the World.” Their war aims and geo strategic objectives are made painfully clear over and over again in Mein Kampf, Hitler’s second book, and NSDAP party programs. They wanted to reintegrate German lands within one German state, the extent of their conquest would’ve been to the East of which they viewed as have being historical German lands in that have been conquered by the Slavs in Antiquity. Considering, too, that they wanted a homogeneous realm populated by the German nation then, yes, the National Socialists were Nationalists. Read a book anon. Imperial Japan, on the other hand was, as the name suggests, an Imperial project wherein there would be a place for the various Asiatic peoples under the Banner of the Rising Sun. The Japanese were, indeed, very chauvinistic. They were also very brutal towards the peoples they have conquered, however, they had no designs to ethnically replace the lands they had acquired with the Yamato. Therein lies the distinction between NS Germany and Imperial Japan. Kuvira’s Earth Empire is akin to the former, whereas the Fire Nation in the original series is akin to the latter.

>>154010595
At the risk of being accused of media illiteracy, I feel like the energybending sequence could have benefitted from more dynamic visuals, to really hammer home that it actually is a fight between Ozai and Aang's souls. Even something as simple as facial expressions could have helped, like Ozai smiling while Aang looks terrified when it seems like the energybending is going to fail.

>>154007182
Don't get me wrong, the ending was terrible.
But it was lessened by the fact that the build-up and everything else surrounding the ending has been great.
That's what many people don't get. Most so called bad-endings are not too terrible in comparison to the rest of the story (The boys, Attack on Titan, Game of Thrones, Chainsawman or the Rise of Skywalker). It's just that the fans have gaslit themselves into believing the rest of the story was good and they should just let the author ,,cook" until it hit them like a bricktruck that it was always shit.

Compared to these Endings Avatar is bad, maybe even worse because introduced a conflict and solved it without any build-up int he previous 3 seasons and ended in a cliche way. But the rest of the story was solid enough to not make it feel like a waste of time.

>>154007182
I liked it, but I'm a sucker for heroes standing with their morals/beliefs and finding a way to have their cake after all.
And I've seen enough fantasy stories that I don't really get upset over a magical being/diety gifting our hero the solution as reward.

>>154011598
I'm not reading the entire thread.

Aang should've just airbended all of the oxygen out of the arena so Ozai couldn't firebend and would asphyxiate to the point where he passes out (not dies). It would also be a callback to when he first released a burst of air when running away 100 years ago that allowed him to be encased in ice. The ability that he was embarrassed about became an ability that shut down the Firelord. Pottery.

>>154007790
>He was only a threat because he was the firelord
>The whole 'the only possible solution is to kill him' is something that the show makes up for no reason.
>>154007974
>unless the argument is that she was so widely disliked that she lacked any loyalists
Did you even watch the show?

>>154008014
>What was the plan during the invasion?
A military occupation of the capital city and consequent break down of the Fire Nation's chain of command after the Fire Lord is incapacitated.

>>154010969
No, you’re wrong. I guarantee you are conflating Nationalism with Chauvinism. Nationalism is very particular.


Nationalism is wherein a Nation, i.e. a people of shared ethnic, historical, and cultural background, is afforded political self determination over their own affairs under a government that is explicitly acting in the interests of the Nation. A Nationalist state, sure, can be isolationist but it would be incorrect to suggest that they are one and the same. Indeed, Nationalist states can, and often do, wage wars motivated by both revanchist and irredentist claims. The key understanding here is that there has to be a historical precedence for these states to intervene. This often takes the form of wishing to unify their nation (people) under a state such as when Germany invaded Czechia to incorporate the Sudeten Germans into the German state. This is an example of a war being waged on an irredentist basis. Here are a couple examples of wars being waged, or at least justified, under a revanchist basis the first being the Falklands War wherein Argentina took over the islands which they perceived as having been belonging to them prior to British Imperialism (whether they are correct in this regard is irrelevant) another example of a Revanchist War is Finland’s part in the Second World War wherein they attempted to restore for themselves lands seized by the Soviets during the events of the Winter War.

Imperialism, on the other hand, is not colored by either Revanchist or Irredentist claims. Imperialism is often justified either from status, Glory, Gold, etc. or through universalist aims such as Spreading the Faith or Civilization with the aim of ‘Civilizing the Savage’ and doing what they view as bettering the nation’s they’ve conquered. This is true from the Umayyad Caliphate wherein they thought they were spreading the word of Allah across the world, and this is true of the Victorian British Empire wherein they…. (To be continued)

The conclusion to Aang vs. Ozai was foreshadowed just the right amount.

1) Third eye (which is what Aang uses to connect with Ozai's energy): Roku’s dragon communicates with Aang by touching his third eye, Aang pacifies Hei Bai through the third eye, Zuko as the Blue Spirit is hit by an arrow in his third eye, Combustion Man bends from a tattoo of a third eye, Aang’s most identifiable feature is a blue arrow that points to his third eye

2) "Energy" as a technique/power present everywhere: Guru Pathik says he found Aang in Ba Sing Se through his energy connection with Appa, Aang says he found Appa and Momo in the swamp by using the swamp's energy to track theirs, the arrow tattoos not only point to the third eye but also overall follow the chi paths so they light up alongside the eyes when the Avatar state's energy is awakened

3) Blocking chi/energy: Water tribe healers practice on a chi path mannequin, Ty Lee is a combatant specializing in acupressure who can temporarily block bending, Iroh saying the energy is around them and passes through human body in Bitter Work so it's necessary for bending, Aang can’t use his Avatar State because Azula wounded his pathway

4) The point is that it's divine intervention as a reward for Aang's spirituality/sticking to his air nomad beliefs. He was literally praying that night (that's why he had a little tray full of candles and fruit offerings) as he was taught to do by the monks and his belief is recognized by a divine entity. It's like Zuko losing his ability to bend but miraculously finding the sun benders and the ancient dragon masters, and Toph miraculously finding the badger moles right when she needed them most after she ran away.


>>154009997

>>154011752
Anyway, a book 4 that maybe takes place 10 years in the future with Aang being "cursed" as the result of absorbing Ozai's dark energy could be interesting. It could be a mix of Princess Mononoke and Mushishi

>>154011688
Sometimes nationalists want to expand their nation. It's as simple as that.

>>154010969
>>154011688
(Continued) … believed that they were spreading progress and civilization across the globe by introducing modern technology and medicine to comparatively under developed peoples.

Do the core nation, or nations (such as the case of Austria-Hungary) have a sense of primacy for the core? Of course they do, but that’s not nationalism, rather it’s ethnic Chauvinism. The Arab, in the days of the Islamic Empire viewed himself to be anointed by a Divine power. Indeed, scripture had been revealed to them in their language, thus making the very words they speak divine. This is certainly a chauvinistic self perception, however, the way this Chauvinism manifested was universal as they wanted to spread Islam and their language across the known world irrespective of if those they sought to revert were ethnically Arab. The Anglo Saxon, similarly, viewed himself to be a superior man and one exceptionally gifted in terms of innovation, governance, and war. Instead of looking inward this exceptionalism, which was often seen as a Burden (actually read the White Man’s Burden), compelled the Anglo to hoist his banner across the world and to uplift those he views as lesser to himself even if he’s hated for it and he even if those he “betters” are “ungrateful” for it.

>>154007182
It would have been fine if they had at least alluded to it at some point. Like if they were in the library in the desert and Aang looked at an old scroll that showed a Lion-turtle and human depicted energy bending, but he couldn't read it or something because it was written in ancient text. We get a long pause on just the visual and then move on.

Later we get another vision of this with the Guru or something during a meditation with a flash and you miss it orange/blue and silhouettes.

You have to build up to secret magic powers. Introduce them as a mystery/rumor/possibility, give us a hint of how to learn the thing, and remind us it's a possibility after the moral conundrum rears it's head, then the ancient knowledge is shown to be more than legend and the Ancient Master can teach this technique. It's cliched as hell, but you HAVE to build it up for the payoff to not feel like an ass-pull.

>>154007182
Yes. Hence why I was so proud of Korra for making the tough decision to severe her link to the previous avatars.

>>154007817
Maybe they should have cut the lion turtle instead

>>154011851
>>154011688
>>154010969

This is the third verse of the “White Man’s Burden” by Rudyard Kipling. This poem is the quintessential justification for Imperial Projects.

“ Take up the White Man's burden—
The savage wars of peace—
Fill full the mouth of famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch Sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.”

Notice how it’s framed as being for the betterment of lesser Nations, of lesser peoples. It is certainly Chauvinistic, portraying the White Man, more specifically the Anglo Saxon, as being superior. But it’s far from Nationalistic, indeed it is advocating for Anglos to spill their blood for another(people)’s profit and another(people)’s gain on the basis that it’s the “Right thing to do” and it’s their duty. This was precisely the motivating force behind Sozin’s war, indeed he said so as much when he introduced the concept to Avatar Roku shortly after (if I recall correctly) Roku’s wedding. He’s not doing it out of revanchism, irredentism, or, really, (in his mind at least) personal gain. He justifies it as spreading the prosperity and development of the Fire Nation across the world. This doesn’t make him any less brutal, indeed it doesn’t make him any less racist as he obviously views his co-ethnics as being superior over the other Nations of the world. It does, however, mean he is not a Nationalist. He’s an Imperialist and he has Imperial designs. If you want to bemoan a villain in the Avatar World for Nationalism bemoan Kuvira because actually was a Nationalist.

>>154007182
The idea that Aang's conviction and soul were strong enough, after spending multiple episodes whining about not knowing what to do and not having an answer for how to deal with a genocidal maniac, to win in a battle of pure will against a guy who was so convinced of his divine right to scorch the entire fucking planet if he needed to is just contrived.

May as well have said Aang won because he was the good guy. Couldn't even tie in their own mythology about the Avatar being the literal fucking embodiment of the spirit of the planet. Couldn't throw him into the spirit world where primordial spirits would judge them? Koh the Facestealer can't make an appearance? Or the spirits of the forests Ozai just torched? Or Roku's dragon? It has to be an ass-pull-ex-machina where Aang both gets all of his Avatar powers back and then uses a completely new power that shouldn't have solved the problem because Aang is a weak-willed bitch.

>>154012204
To me, this reeks of executive meddling. The entire series leads up to Aang's moral dilemma and defeat of Ozai. Guaranteed whatever the first draft ending was, the studio execs nixed it.

I will be forever salty that LoK fucked up ATLA's legacy. I get they were trying to be avant garde and start something new but almost all their new ideas just suck. Korra is fine, she is actually a very easy character to write: She is an over confident teenager who needs to have an arc where she learns humility. But then they have her eat dirt so many times it makes her seem so incompetent. And then the two brothers whose names I don't even remember who are here for some reason and are such a downgrade on Soka and Katara. And Asami is also just there. And the series felt so direction less. And all the lore additions are dumb and make the lore and world building so uninteresting. And republic city contradicts the whole idea of the nations needing to be separate. And bending completely loses its roots to martial arts and culture and just becomes a superpower. And all the older beloved characters are just paraded in front of us for fan service.

>>154012566
Execs don’t give two fucks about that level of detail. Writers are brain dead.

>>154012778
>Execs don’t give two fucks about that level of detail.
I assure you, if this kid's show originally ended with Aang killing or physically crippling the Fire Lord, the execs would have something to say.

>>154012204
His dilemma was about how to deal with Ozai, his development is being strong-willed enough to defy Ozai's assertion that "his people are weak and have no place in this world" (he also enters avatar state because he's pissed at Ozai saying he's too weak blah blah)

Sometimes I read stuff here and wonder if this is people's first time ever engaging with a piece of fiction or hero's journey or anything

>>154010653
The Nazis didn't intend to conquer the world. They intended to conquer Eastern Europe.
Even then, it was not Imperialism. Imperialism is conquering and subjecting foreign places into vassal states. They Nazis wanted to exterminate Eastern Europeans and replace them with Germans.
Imperialist nations can be nationalistic, I'm not denying that. But imperialistic ambitions are only tangibly related to nationalist ideology. Most Empires were not nation states, the latter even came to be in opposition to the empires at the time (having a state populated and governed by people who share ethnicity, culture and a language, not a conglomerate of different ethnicities ruled by a elite minority).
British colonialism for example were merchants, settlers and adventurers pursuing their own goals whose colonial projects then were put under "protection" of the British goverment, not nationalists who simply wanted to make Britain bigger on the world map. Same with most other colonial powers.
Only Italy and Germany were the exception because they joined late into the game and wanted to belong to the club of colonial powers. Should have used them as an example.

>>154013032
>They Nazis wanted to exterminate Eastern Europeans and replace them with Germans.
American public education detected

>>154012566
The ending was in the show bible before the show ever aired. They just did it in about the worst way possible.

>>154013032
>But imperialistic ambitions are only tangibly related to nationalist ideology
Anon, you need to be pretty nationalistic to have the incredibly high national confidence to attempt to make an empire. Only a nation so nationalistic that it thinks it is the best nation will take over others to expand its borders. Nationalism and imperialism are not just closely related, the former is necessary for the latter.

>>154012973
But the main problem is that it doesn't really solve the dilemma of how to deal with Ozai. Ozai was dangerous not because of his bending abilities but because he was the Firelord, leader of the Fire Nation. His bending doesn't seem to be too impressive either, even with Sozin's comet giving him a boost. Taking away his bending doesn't stop him from commanding his army.

>>154013072
Anon, Chauvinism ≠ Nationalism. Imperialists are Chauvinistic, yes, but are by definition not Nationalist. It’s really not all that hard to understand.

>>154013323
Chauvinism about how better your nation is than others is nationalism, anon. You are confusing nationalism with isolationism.

>>154012973
Ozai wasn't god. He assertion that the Airbenders were weak wasn't a divine decree that Aang had to muster his entire soul to endure and then reject. Just am overty sign that he's a megalomanical villain.

>he also enters avatar state because he's pissed at Ozai saying he's too weak blah blah
He enters the Avatar state because Ozai knocked him into a rock that conveniently reopened all his chakras and rebooted his connection to his past lives.

>anons ignored the aislop repost from the dead thread defending this garbage
Good

>>154011967
that was Unalaq, at least blame her for her own actions

>>154013372
No, anon, you’re just ignorant as to what Nationalism really is. You’re conflating it with Chauvinism and gave a rather cartoonish, and childish, outlook on it because of this. Nationalist movements in say the Austro-Hungarian Empire are not Chauvinist just because they want a state for their individual nation free from Habsburg influence and they’re not “Isolationist” lol, lmao because of this. The National Struggle of Nationalist, Anti-Colonial, movements throughout the duration of the Cold War were not isolationist either but were nonetheless Nationalist in character. The Mau Maus when they expelled the British may have been racially centric, yes, but they weren’t Imperialist. The Khmer Rouge, in trying to make Cambodia an Ethnostate, was not engaging in Imperialism after having won their nationalist struggle against the French. The Irish, upon winning their National Struggles against the British in the Anglo-Irish War were not Imperialists or advocated for Empire and, to this day, Republican movements advocate for the Nationalist struggle as a counter to Imperialism. Nationalism and Imperialism are diametrically opposed. Isolationism has nothing to do with the equation and you’re, frankly, silly for not being able to grasp this.

>>154007182
No
Its most the lion turtle not being built up enough. If they foreshadowed him more times it would feel like a good payoff.

>>154014242
In before the other anon misinterprets Irish Republican movements as being the American GOP. It’s about the caliber of person I’ve been dealing with.

>>154014371
>the caliber of person I’ve been dealing with.
We've all fought with retards on this site. It's a never-ending battle and you never really win. Not sure why we do it.

>>154007182
Hurrr durr the fire nation killed all the air nomads that's so unfair

Hurr durr the earth kingdom killed all the air nomads that's so unfair

Hurr durr a wet papaer towel killed all the air nomads that's so unfair

>>154012973
>his development is being strong-willed enough to defy Ozai's assertion that "his people are weak and have no place in this world" (he also enters avatar state because he's pissed at Ozai saying he's too weak blah blah)
Ha, I wish. That would have been better than a pointy rock

File: 1603951869908 (1).png (329 KB, 1170x663)

329 KB PNG

SAVE ME, POINTY ROCK

When does the fighting game release

>>154014521
If pointy rock is so strong, why did we even need Aang to be there to save the day? I bet pointy rock could have taken away Ozai's bending all on his own.

>>154014433
I guess to some extent one may find it entertaining

>>154014690
The fighting game releases on July 2nd

>>154007182
Visually striking, but a copout nevertheless

Not only is it a copout, but there's also a copout within the copout with Aang nearly losing. What was the point of that? We clearly knew he wasn't going to lose. And don't even get me started on that convenient rock to his back wound that magically activated the avatar state.

>>154014242
I dont get how you are unable to grasp that nationalism can manifest in different ways. A group within a bigger group is nationalistic while trying to be independent. A group conquering others is nationalistic while building an empire. Chauvinism and nationalism can combine to create imperialism. You are equating nationalism without expansionist tendencies with nationalism as a whole but that is just a subset of nationalism. Every single empire on the face of the earth has been nationalistic, chauvinism is just a component of that nationalism. It is honestly pretty telling that you have no idea what you are talking about with your need to sprinkle ad hominems in the middle of your arguments as if that helps them somehow.

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So what happened to the original people who worked on the original show. Why were they not involved in the production of the legend of aang leaked movie?

>>154007837
>The only saving grace is sexy crazy azula
Based

>>154007182
No, Narratively it was far more interesting to see Aang struggle sticking to his morality, instead of him fight fagging and insta winning in the avatar state.

>>154015826
Bryke envied Aaron Ehasz, his wife and co. for turning their ideas good.

>>154010595
Hmm, I still think Ozai had a 100% conviction in his cause so a 100% willpower, which means that if Aang had a 70%, then stacked some more from the Avatar state because sure whatever, it'd still be a tie at 100% and the attack should've failed without a repercussion for either party.
Now sure that's boring and a waste of screentime, but since they explained the rules were that the one with the most willpower wins, that's how it should have gone.

>>154014868
The pointy rock is humble and doesn't want the credit. a true hero.

>>154015892
>instead of him fight fagging and insta winning in the avatar state.
But that's exactly what happened anyway. Yes, he technically defeated him with energybending, but he wouldn't have been able to do that if he hadn't already kicked his ass with the avatar state.
A proper finale would have forgon the avatar state entirely.

>>154007182
- It just needed to be introduced as a concept way earlier, like S1 or in S2 with the library ep.

- The rock nub was worse and should have been Katara letting Aang know that she loves and accepts him as the Avatar so he doesn't need to try to not be one (Roku has a wife and kids with no Avatar State issues).

>>154008493
The show hinting at a fifth element. Most people call it "Energy Bending" but the Chinese would call it Qi Bending. The biggest hint of it was when Iroh was teaching Zuko a different kind of lighting bending. When Iroh drew the symbols for bending arts, they all had a symbol in common. It was the "whirlpool" symbol. I think that could explain some of the odd bending like bending lava or sand bending.

Of course, a lot of this stuff went unnoticed because most viewers weren't Chinese.

>>154016413
I'm rewatching right now. I'm gonna look for that.

>>154016136
>power of love faggotry
Fuck no

>>154015603
Nationalism can manifest in many ways, except Imperialism. Because Imperialism and Nationalism are diametrically opposed. A Nationalist can be chauvinistic, yes, but I’d he wants to subjugate another people, another nation, within his realm then he stops being a Nationalist and becomes an Imperialist.

Nationalists want
>One State that works for One People
>One Nation
>One Culture
>Every ethnic member of the Nation to be within the State

Imperialists want
>Suzerainty over Many Nations
>Suzerainty over Many Peoples
>Many Protectorates subordinate to the Core
>The State to manage Multinational affairs within the realm

Both can be Chauvinistic, both can also not be particularly Chauvinistic. However, Nationalism precludes the existence of other Nations (other peoples/ethnic groups) within the State.

I’ve explained this again and again, you’re just dim.

>>154015603
Every single Empire in the existence of the world had not been Nationalistic, retard, actually quite the opposite. How was the Umayyad Caliphate Nationalistic? What about the Abbasid Caliphate? The answer is they weren’t. The Roman Empire wasn’t Nationalistic, and neither was Russian or Mongolian Empires. Hell, Attatürk, a Turkish Nationalist, opposed the Ottoman Empire because it was inherently contradictory with Turkish Nationalism. You’re just stupid and hold on to this retarded simplified Narrative where you conflate things you think is icky as one thing.

>>154016413
it went 'unnoticed' because this is an insane reach that only avatarfags can come up with to rationalize the lion turtle/energybending deus ex.
>all these element symbols have this squiggly line in common, there must be a 5th hidden one that was never shown!
Anon... at some point you just have to acknowledge that the show put no thought into these things.
>most viewers weren't Chinese
if they were, they would have dropped this americanized cartoon like a rock. the asian inspirations in atla are window dressing at best.

>>154010633
>You, simply, cannot be an Imperialist and a Nationalist. It’s oxymoronic.
Where are you sourcing your claim about what "imperialism" means >>154011688? To be frank, I think you're being much too restrictive with your definition, and I don't really see how they're necessarily incompatible, especially given different regional contexts.

It might help if you label certain polities; what would you describe the Third Reich, USSR under Stalin, and the federal government of the USA in the second half of the 19th century (i.e. the push West; I do mean "19th century", not "1900s") as?
>>154015603
>Every single empire on the face of the earth has been nationalistic
>you have no idea what you are talking about
Speaking about one who doesn't know what they're talking about, this is just flat out wrong, which you would know if you were as educated as you apparently seem to think you are. Not every culture throughout history has the same concept of polity as we do in the modern West.
>>154007182
The entire plot about not being able to kill is fucking retarded, yes. I really have to wonder if it wasn't a consequence of being a Y7 cartoon.

>>154008549
sometimes I read a post and wonder how this person and their mindset can even be real

>>154007182
Over time I've come to accept it
Aang was standing up for his people, I like the message
It just needed to be set up a little better

>>154017614
>the asian inspirations in atla are window dressing at best
Not entirely, but it is unfortunately largely a Judeo-Californian/New Age understanding of East Asia.

>>154017734
It reads like he's being humorous, please lighten up.

>>154017516
Those two things aren't contradictory. You can want a monoculture ethnostate at home and subservient colonies abroad.
Like how racists are fine with having black people around as long as they're enslaved.
And it's the same dynamic with imperialism. They want slave colonies to enrich themselves.

>>154007182
No

>>154014501
It'd have been kino if in response to such a taunt, Aang styles on him only using airbending.

>>154017839
No Anon, that’s inherently contradictory. To your point about racists. Racists aren’t a monolith. Sure, some racist Whites would be fine with blacks existing in their country, provided, that they are enslaved or otherwise subordinate. Those are called White Supremacists, consequently that is why the Ku Klux Klan referred to themselves as a Secret Empire, and have ranks invoking such (in fact the second iteration had a Black Man’s Auxiliary which was essentially comprised of blacks that would rat on other blacks). However, other racists would disagree and vehemently so. Another example from White Racists historically is the Colonization movement which was a branch of Abolitionists who opposed Slavery precisely because it placed blacks in the Country and promoted miscegenation between slave and Master. They wished to relocate emancipated blacks to Liberia, these would be called White Nationalist and they would be opposed to the Klan because they don’t want blacks in the nation wholesale, it wouldn’t matter if they’re enslaved or segregated. This same phenomenon is found politically. You can cope otherwise but reality is simply not on your side. The Imperial core could, 100%, be Chauvinistic and not wish the subordinate peoples of the Empire to be in their proximity in the Imperial Core but the reality of Empire and Imperial management of these said subordinate nations within the Empire necessitates that an Imperialist cannot be a Nationalist. Just as a White Supremacist tolerates nonwhites within the city provided that they are segregated and provide cheap labor to Whites, an Imperialist from the Imperial core would be content with many nations within the State provided that they provide the Imperial Core resources, tribute, labor, soldiers et cetera. Likewise, however, just as a White Nationalist would not want non whites in his nation full stop, a Nationalist would not want his State to be Suzerain over other nations…(to be continued)

>>154007182
I liked it, but I also wanted to see Anng Kill without having any other choice. Not killing Ozai makes a point, If a jury of peers have had sentenced him to the gallows after, then It would have been even better

>>154018870
>jury of peers
It'd be Zuko's call and I doubt no situation would cause him to execute his father and he wanted info about his mother.

>>154018761
>>154017839
(Continued..)

This is the case for many reasons. But let’s focus on one, that being the responsibility of the state. An imperial state, by necessity of running the Empire, has a responsibility towards its possessions and the denizens therein. Even if it’s a in a paltry amount, the Imperial Core has to provide the periphery with defense, infrastructure, and, to a varying extent, autonomy.

The Imperial Core doesn’t do this because they’re nice, but because they have to satiate the subordinate nations, or at least the elites of the subordinate nations, so that they’re less inclined to revolt and in order to justify not only their Suzerainty but also the transference of wealth and resources to the Core. Is it at an equal development to the Core? Well, in the case of the Portuguese Empire it was but, typically, it is not. Usually the Core nation of an Empire, or at least the elites of the Core Nation, disproportionately benefit from the Imperial project. That said, every Successful Empire (and with legitimacy) can claim that they have uplifted the nations within their realm.

Indeed this transcends ideology as the Abbasid Caliphate (an Islamic Empire) claimed to have improved the lands of their Empire as did the Austro-Hungarians (a Catholic Empire) and the same for the Soviet Union (A Communist Empire) and yes the Russian Empire (an Orthodox Empire) before them. If an Imperial possession is threatened be it by “barbarians”, rivaling Empires, or indeed Nationalist rebels it is the responsibility of Core to protect that possession from the external threat or put down the revolt. This give and take, this responsibility, requires time, energy, material, brainpower, and blood from the Core. This cost, often, doesn’t really benefit the masses of the Core which is why Imperial elites justify this Burden with Universalist ideals such as spreading a religion, civilization, progress et cetera.

(To be continued)….

>>154015826
They scattered across a bunch of different shows. Korra, Voltron, Dragon Prince, The Clone Wars. It was the right people at the right time catching lightning in a bottle and even then the lightning was starting to get loose in season 3.

>>154018954
Zuko was literally the first person telling Aang that he had to kill Ozai and he was really the only person pressing the issue. The rest of the team just sorta shrugged at the notion.

>>154019133
>the lightning was starting to get loose in season 3.
Aaron left midway through the production of season 3, hence why a lot of the backhalf has writing issues with bryke taking on more writing duties.

>>154019221
Even the first half of S3 was showing some cracks. The characters were starting to get flanderized, partly just to fill in the time because all their serious development was being saved for their adventures with Zuko, which in turn made all of that feel rushed since there was so much to cram in. And poor Toph got basically nothing. The Runaway was mostly just a drawn out, goofier retread of Katara and Toph's conflict from The Chase.

>>154019074
>>154018761
>>154017839
(Continued)

A Nationalist Government is responsible, only, to its own Nation and its own people. It would not burden itself with, or the blood of its people, for the sake of far flung provinces populated by peoples alien to their own. Nationalist Wars, often, (who would’ve thunk it!) are waged for the benefit or perceived benefit of the Nation (i.e. the People as, at the end of the day Nation = an Ethnic People). This could be in the form of Revolution wherein a subjugated Nation wants to assert National Self Determination away from an Imperial Core. Think, for example, the Netherlands, Vietnam, Ireland, Algeria et cetera. This could also take the form of irredentism which is when a Nation State wishes to unify the ethnic Nation under one state. The consummate example of this, and where the word “irredentism” actually comes from, is the Italian Wars of Unification which started in 1861 though other examples could be the German Wars of Unification under Bismarck and the Meiji Restoration in Japan. Another type, and perhaps the last type, of Nationalist War would be a Revanchist War or a war wherein a nation wishes to re-acquire lost territory or avenge a historical humiliation. I have already provided an example of Revanchist wars in the form of Finland’s involvement in WW2 and Argentina’s justification of the Falklands War.

>>154019594
>>154019074
>>154018761
>>154017839
(Continued, Last one too!)

Now is the Fire Nation’s 100 year War a Nationalist War?
>Are they fighting a Revolution to achieve National Self Determination?
No. At the outset of the War they already had National Self Determination.
>Are they fighting an Irredentist War to Unite their Co-Ethnics underneath one state?
No. At the outset of the war all known Fire Nation Co-Ethnics already were unified under the Fire Lord.
>Are they fighting a Revanchist War wherein they want to avenge a National Humiliation or regain lost lands?
No. Sozin sought to acquire Lands from the Earth Kingdom to, in his words, spread the prosperity and development of the Fire Nation and probably, rather unconsciously or consciously, to enrich himself.

This being the case, no, the Fire Nation’s 100 year War was not a Nationalist War but, rather, an Imperial War of Conquest. Nationalist Governments don’t engage in Imperialism as they don’t want to suffer the Burden of spending blood, money, and resources needed acquire new lands but, also, to hold them (from outside forces or Nationalist Rebels), to better extract resources from them, and to satiate their new possessions from revolting. Imperial Governments, on the other hand, do as they (or at least the Elites) feel as though the Burden is worth the rewards.

>>154018954
>>154019199
Ozai ought to have been given to the other nations to face a proper punishment

>>154019507
>The Runaway was mostly just a drawn out, goofier retread of Katara and Toph's conflict from The Chase.
Thank you, ive been saying this. the first half of s3 is so bloated with fat

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From a another thread.

>hated book 3 even when I was a retarded teenager that liked stupid shit
>rewatched ATLA recently
> Holy shit, books 1 and 2 are peak that stand the test of time
>maybe book 3 wasn’t that bad?

>the plot comes to a complete standstill as the characters stand around and do nothing.
NOTHING
>zuko’s redemption didn’t feel earned
>barely do anything interesting to show life in an imperialistic fire nation
>Aesthetics are garbage: why would women wear crop trops in the fire nation?
>series of disconnected self contained stories that do nothing for the plot
>these aforementioned self contained stories pretty much unanimously sucked dick and uninspired (le epic prison break! Aztec dragons!)
>”character examinations” were all done worse than books 1 and 2 which wove them into the fabric of the story without sacrificing plot
>lighter overall tone, much lighter than books 1 and 2, and mind you, this is before the final battle that decides the state of the world
>the day of black sun invasion, nothing to elaborate there
> full of jokes and self referential humor of the cringiest variety,

>check plebbit and the rest of the internet

>everyone has book 3 as their favorite
There are good things. I loved the ending. It’s less that it’s awful on its own but awful when stood up next to books 1 and 2.


What the fuck

It's funny because Korra would inherit the same flaws and nade a much worse.

>>154019829
>It's funny because Korra would inherit the same flaws and nade a much worse.
see >>154019221 >>154019507

>>154007182
>Was an easy out of a complex moral dilemma for the hero that bad?
It would have been less bad if he just spared him normally.

>>154017731
>Erm Source?!?!
The literal definition of Empire. The words in parentheses are my additions.
“A group of countries (Nations) or states that are controlled by one leader or government”
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/empire

“A major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empire

>How would you Label The Third Reich, USSR (Under Stalin), and the U.S. Under Manifest Destiny - Spanish American War

This is simple. The Third Reich was Nationalist and waged wars it characterized as being both irredentist and revanchist. It wished to Unify the German people under a singular state, to borrow a term from the Afrikaans, a Volkstaat and to regain lands believed to have once been German going as far back to Antiquity. This Volkstaat would be comprised of Germans and they’d enact Homogenization with positive or negative incentives such as the Haavara Agreement (I.E. self deportation), pogroms, or “managed depopulation” (the work camps).

The USSR is an Empire, it was an Empire under Lenin, it was an Empire under Stalin, and it was an Empire under Gorbachev. This is because it comprises within itself many nations that had a role in the Soviet project. Under Stalin minorities were persecuted, but not universally (he belonged to a minority group himself) and the intention of Russification was not to wipe out Ethnic Groups wholesale in order to replace them with Russians but, rather, to make Imperial management easier. This is not to say genocide didn’t happen, indeed Stalin, intentionally, genocided the Cossacks and the Volga Germans (to name a few) but being Genocidal doesn’t make one a Nationalist.

(The U.S. to be Continued)

>>154020239
>>154017731
(The U.S. and other points Continued…)

The U.S. in the 19th Century, and arguably still to today, an Imperial project. Yes, the Amerindians were depopulated within the mainland but were given semi autonomous territories subordinate to the Federal Government. Indeed, more broadly speaking, in the 19th Century there were many nations residing within the United States that were subordinate to the Anglo Saxon & Scots Irish National elite and many of which had no real formal semi autonomy. These were, of course, the European Immigrants (at this time mostly Irish, German, Italian, and Jews) and Oriental Immigrants (at this time mostly Chinese and Japanese) they imported along with the emancipated Black Population. Outside of the mainland, however, included mestizo and other mixed or Pacific Islander peoples that can less controversially be labeled as Nations that America seized from Spain in a war of Conquest. These include, formally, Cuba (as a protectorate), Puerto Rico, the Philippines, Guam, and the Virgin Islands. Informally, however, during the Monroe Doctrine this extends throughout Latin America most nakedly in Panama with American military action to seize land and erect a Canal but can also be seen in any number of filibustering conducted by Americans at this time.

>Erm, uh, oh, actually uh you don’t know what you’re talking about plus an obtuse attempt to appeal to Orientalism

Yeah that doesn’t really really refute what I said though in any concrete manner. Yes, by definition, no Empire was Nationalist, it’s oxymoronic. Throughout the entirely of my arguments within this thread I have referred to a variety of Non-Western Empires such as the Ottoman Empire, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, and the Mongol Empire and none of them were Nationalist. This is not unique to these Polities as, once again, by definition no Empire can be Nationalist. Thus, the Fire Nation, being an Empire, was not Nationalist.

>>154007790
I've always thought this as well, but Bryke stated Ozai is supposed to be the most powerful living firebender.

I feel like it would've been better for Aang to defeat him in battle and learn that while he's an Air Nomad, he's also the Avatar and that responsibility comes first.

>>154008803
I do agree having Aang be conflicted and but want to kill Ozai should've been a mid series introduction, possibly somewhere in season 2 when it becomes undeniable that there's no misunderstanding or talking their way out of it and he won't go down without a fight

>>154010653
They mostly just didn't want to give up ownership of their banks or participate in the stock market.

>>154019829
>zuko’s redemption didn’t feel earned
Eh, I don't know what you were really expecting. I think they handle it well enough. He'd gotten everything he thought he wanted and restored the honor he thought he'd lost, but comes to the creeping realization that he actually sacrificed his honor to return to a dishonorable home. The only thing there that he cares about is Mai and she can tell he's troubled, but he doesn't want to endanger her by pulling her all the way into his treacherous spiral of doubts, so all she can do is offer hollow comforts. Inevitably, the cognitive dissonance makes him crack and he finally flips sides to truly restore his honor.
The main flaws in it are that the relationship with Mai could've been better fleshed out (but the bones are much better than people give credit, imo) and Combustion Man is a little too obviously just a plot device.

>>154007790
Yeah, could have just cut his balls off.

>>154019829
Do you mean his redemption in terms of him wishing to defect from the Fire Nation or Team Avatar accepting him? Because I feel like these are two different things. I wholeheartedly accept his reasoning to defect but his acceptance within Team Avatar seemed very rushed. I think, for example, when he started attacking Aang at his Ember Island Home that Team Avatar shouldn’t have been as understanding as they were, even after their Adventures with him. Realistically, at least one of them, wouldn’t jumped to the assumption that it was proof that he couldn’t be trusted and that he was secretly there to capture or kill Aang even if, in actuality, he wasn’t.

>>154019829
I agree with a lot of these points though

>>154007182
YES IT WAS BAD
IT WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE
I'M STILL MAD
HOLY SHIT

Yeah, it was pretty bad.

>>154020519
>but the bones are much better than people give credit, imo
on mai's side sure i guess. If anything it's Zuko specifically who needed fleshing out in that dynamic, as mai doesn't exist to him until season 3.

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>>154020620
Woah Buddy!

>>154007790
This, the moment Aang cuffed his hands in rocks and immobilized him, the battle was practically over anyway, taking away his bending served 0 purpose.

>>154011651
>A military occupation of the capital city
They straight up didn't have the manpower for that. The whole operation was just meant to be a quick decapitating strike: take out the Fire Lord at all costs and then GTFO on the subs. Then hopefully the Fire Nation descends into disarray long enough that they can't take advantage of the comet.
It's bothersome that the show never clarifies whether they had some notion of simply holding Ozai hostage, which would have been an easy out.

>>154008471
>The Fire Nation is nationalistic. It respects power, honor, tradition, etc.
Azula was Fire Lord, she cheated at an Agni Kai for the throne and lost, honor and tradition dictates that Zuko is the legitimate Fire Lord.

>>154007182
I'm kind of fine with the energybending thing.

Honestly my main problem is more with how the fight plays out - Aang plays defense the whole time until lucky rock strikes his back, then it becomes a curb stomp where even Ozai's comet enhanced firebending is completely shit on by Aang's other 3 elements - plus Avatar State cheats Aang into having all firebending knowledge of past Avatars so his firebending is just better too. Like all Aang ever got out of his actual own Firebending training in the series was the Lightning deflection.

>>154020689
It’s also not Nationalistic, as a matter of fact, it’s Imperial. But I’ve harped on that long enough. But also, yes! The whole point of the Fire Nation is that they’re out of balance and engage in dishonorable and, frankly, untraditional ways.
>They Don’t Respect the Spirits
>They reward Un-Honorable men, such as Zhao, and punish Honorable men, such as Zuko.

What I hate is that ATLA was not a show that didn't know its ultimate ending. They had plenty of time to properly build up this. If Aang had to master the elements and also learn this shit to beat him, it'd be fine. But it's a last minute asspull. Very disappointing.

>>154019829
yeah, general ATLA LOVE Season 3. idk why. I thought it was clearly the worst season.

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>>154020362
>>154017731
Hey, Anon, I just want to say sorry about my last point here being directed at you. I thought you meant that at me, however, you were responding to the other Anon. That was a retard moment on my part and, once again, I’m Sorry.

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>>154020846
(Same Anon Replying)
Actually I want to apologize for the entire tone of my posts directed at you. Re-reading I seemed to have fundamentally misunderstood the intention behind your reply. I’m sorry, just been wound up all day jokes on me I guess Nevertheless, I hope the essence of my answers were illuminating and help my wider point against other anon.

>>154020635
To be fair, until S3, he has no good reason to think it's even a possibility. Although it does feel like they deliberately dodge any interaction between the two of them until then. Maybe the writers were actually cognizant that it could get messy if they folded that into Zuko's motivations too early.
But yeah, Zuko's side of the relationship is kinda muted even after it's been established. He's visibly fond and affectionate towards her, which is very rare behavior from him, but the passion never really comes out beyond making out. Like even a brief moment at the end of Boiling Rock of him being distraught about Mai's sacrifice would've done wonders.
>Zuko: "We can't just leave her behind! We have to go back for her!"
>Sokka: "No, this is our only chance! The best thing we can do right now is take it. It would all be for nothing if we went back now."

>>154019829
>everyone has book 3 as their favorite
I thought Book 2 was broadly agreed to be the best. Kinda like how people generally agree ESB is the best Star Wars.

>>154021066
>Kinda like how people generally agree ESB is the best Star Wars.
Maybe if you're a parrot.
EP3 > EP4 > EP5 > EP1 > EP2 > EP6

>>154021048
>Maybe the writers were actually cognizant that it could get messy if they folded that into Zuko's motivations too early.
On the contrary, i just believe that they didn't put any thought into it at all up until s3. think about it, there were several moments throughout s1-2 where Mai logically should have come up given the relationship they established later. all those times zuko wanted his honor/throne/fathers exceptence/to go home and Mai never comes up once? Even in the date with Jin where they had a slam dunk moment to do so with Zuko ditching jin, he doesn't mention Mai at all. That episode in itself reinforces how procastinated the writers/creators were here (the comic they put out to explain Maiko before s3 didn't help).
>But yeah, Zuko's side of the relationship is kinda muted even after it's been established.
And this is why Zuko is shipped with literally everyone else. the complete afterthought here in the writing failed him so much so in this area, in what is otherwise in excellent character. I'm not gonna pretend like i liked Maiko to begin with, but even i can see that it could have been good with any attempt at a proper foundation.

Did they ever say why they didn't just execute the Red Lotus crew?

>>154021675
I think it was for information, the Red Lotus as a group was larger than just those four. Presumably the White Lotus could tell that the members who were arrested weren’t acting on their own, since Unalaq secretly orchestrated their kidnapping mission, but none of the captured members talked.

>>154007182
I can do this but you guys never see any cool lights because my energy overpowers every other person's energy immediately because I'm so strong and shit

>>154007314
Show it or it never happened

>>154021171
>3 above 4 and 5
>1 and 2 above 6
RotS may be the best of the prequels but it's not THAT good. And RotJ may be the worst of the OT but no fucking way it's worse than motherfucking AotC.

>>154023446
It's literally just Aang going "Hey look at this cool picture" for a second

>>154007182
pointy rock lmao

>>154023725
I actually agree with that guy. Once you remove your nostalgia and "older-so-better" filters, the prequel trilogy holds up very well. Hayden Christensen actually played Anakin really well. Yeah, he's off-putting but that's the point because he was an awkward guy who had grown up in a religious order where he didn't quite fit in because he started too old. Christensen captured that perfectly, audiences just didn't like it.

>>154018761
That's just your opinion, Anon. It seems to be a widely held opinion that imperialists can be nationalistic and/or chauvinistic. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

I think where you're getting tripped up is thinking too much about the hypothetical of the situation and not realizing the real world application issue that almost no country has the means to be self sufficient and will have to trade with another for resources of some sort. This eventually will result in a debate within the nation on if it's more disadvantageous for said nation to spend X amount of the resources they already do via trade to acquire the ones they want/need it if they should spend another resource i.e. potential human life, effort, and other assorted military equipment in order to either take the resource for themselves or occupy said territory that has the resource in order to gain it at a discount/have control over it's distribution in the future.

There's also the scenario, among potential others, that they would be the ones with a desired resource who may or may not have been attacked more then once in the past or otherwise have a strong reason to believe they will be attacked in the future so they begin debating on whether going on the offense and toppling a potential threat before it become a more serious one may be the most pragmatic option for the nation over all.

There's many potential scenarios where one can lend on an imperialists mindset or agenda through nationalism even if it isn't always a requirement.

>>154026187
Actual Political Science definitions backed up with, specific, examples throughout many historical contexts
>Erm, that’s just like, your opinion man!

Anon, you’ve lost the plot. Now, with your argument about what may drive states to act Imperialistically you conflate rational self interest with Nationalism. Nationalism is a very specific ideology, I know Hollywood and pop culture/pop “history” distorts how people understand Nationalism but it’s not really a matter of opinion. Political Science may be a soft science but it’s a science nonetheless. While, I’m sure, some vernacular rube may unironically say “Liberal Socialist” and think it makes sense either as a self identifier or a smear but the fact of the matter is that it is nonsensical. That kind of word play may work the GOP fuds or the playground but serious students of Political Science know it to be oxymoronic as Socialism and Liberalism are on opposite ends of the economic axis. The smarter, though no less incorrect, may flounder and try to rationalize “Oh no, I mean socially Liberal and economically Socialist” which, sure, if you don’t know what Liberalism is and only know the term as it’s used, vulgarly, in the common parlance may make “sense” but if you actually apprise yourself on what these terms mean and the men that formulated them you realize what this line, ultimately, is. Cope.

Just in case you don’t know, given our back and forth up till now I’m inclined to bet you don’t. Liberalism has very little, if anything, to do with Cultural issues and is, in actuality, an economic formulation that stipulates that resources are best utilized in what they, Liberals, view as the natural guiding hand of the Free Market. This guiding hand, broadly, being supply and demand. If this sounds like Capitalism, bingo, because it is Capitalism as Liberalism and Capitalism are one and the same. (to be continued, I promise it won’t be exhaustive lol)

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>>154025160
>>154023725
Of course ROTJ is still great, held up entirely by everything going on with Luke in that movie. If it was just those bits, it might be the best movie of the series or close to it. It's really the culmination of everything and just flawless execution between Luke and Sheev.

>>154026187
>>154026747
Now, economically Liberalism can take multiple paths with the big three being (in no particular order of endorsement) The Chicago School, the Austrian School, and Keynesianism. While these three types of Liberal Economic Schools are distinct, they’re nonetheless Liberal and thus nonetheless Pro Capital.

Politically, often, economic Liberalism is paired with Western Style Republican governments but a State need not be a Republic to be Liberal. Indeed, Napoleon Bonaparte, despite having political power invested in himself nevertheless presided over a Liberal state having carried on the French Revolutionary tradition of Liberalization in both civic law and the economy.

Being as though Liberalism isn’t a Cultural theory, Liberals can hold very diverse cultural and social values that could be informed by other philosophical traditions. For example, while they may agree some first principles (i.e. Man should be held equal before the law, have freedom of movement, freedoms of speech et cetera) a Liberal immersed in Kantian philosophy or, indeed, explicitly Christian philosophy would have drastically different social views than a fellow Liberal that is immersed in any particular strain of Utilitarian philosophy.

I hope that makes sense, if you already knew this, good! But I thought I should make it clear just to better support my argument and for the sake of others who might not be familiar.