Last time the X-Men felt like genuine heroes.
>>154071174When was the first time?
>>154072350originally they used to mostly fight aliens who were actively invading or infiltrating Earth, like Lucifer, or mutants who had aims and ideals that, since about 2007, the x-men have come to share (which is not surprising given they've had most of those former foes on the team before 2007)they did it for the same reason Spider-Man does it, that they felt a responsibility to use their powers wisely and, like him, to try and get better press (but for all mutants, not just themselves)think of it like that infamous 9/11 issue where Doom, Magneto, Kingpin etc are all standing around crying because of 9/11 (although they're doing it in the ruins on the actual day.., which is possibly not the best place for internationally-known supervillains to show up, particularly those who've attacked NY before or, say, have the power to throw large metal tubes around)except that issue isn't a weird one-off in isolation produced as part of the grieving process for employees of a company which has been four miles away from the WTC since it was constructed, it's the very serious jumping on point for an all-new direction for the entire line, and all these renowned villains are now on Team Good Guys, but also still doing villain stuff, and the FF, Daredevil etc are all fine with this because the FF have decided that hey, sometimes you have to subjugate a small eastern european country with high tech and magic just to prove to the world that your ability and ego are matched, and Daredevil has decided that hey, it's much more fun doing lawyer stuff to get Fisk out of trouble than into trouble, because he doesn't get beat up and dead girlfriends when he's getting Fisk out of trouble, and so onso you have a guy literally called Holocaust who comes from a dimension where it is known he killed billions of humans including all the humans in america, because he had powers that let him do that; and they know he did that because a guy who was on Team Hero for years told them
>>154073042>>154072350so this creates a weird double-fold in the X-Men's heel turn, in that they're not just signing on with people they've fought and know to be villains - who have in some cases literally tortured and murdered X-Men and allies of X-Men in the past - but they're signing on with the villains who they were probably fighting when you, or me, or OP, or Joe Quesada - whichever one of us he is - first read an X-Men comic and thought "these guys are real heroes, look at all the hero they do"; and it also creates an entire generation of readers who - bless them - are never, ever going to go back and read all the prior X-Men runs because how could you? how could anybody possibly have time? and none of it makes any goddamn sense anyway and a lot of it is just plain weird because it tries to ride this slim premise for decades without ever changing the background - even Spider-Man has years where he's accepted as a hero and JJJ likes himbut that means there's only those younger readers left, because who the fuck is sticking around to see the AoA villains become actual X-Men in 616 and not some Exiles or What If? run, and they have no idea that these guys were bad, and then someone brings up like "hey remember the five countries that Magneto became dictator of after he joined the X-Men in 1982" or "remember how Scott Summers was kicking a 16 year old in the ribs to toughen her up for being possessed by an evil space bird that he thought would turn her into his dead wife, but not the other dead wife who was alive again by then or his actual living wife the former villain and definite registered sex offender, and he didn't even tell the poor dumb kid that's what he was going to do?" and they feel the need to defend this shit, because they connected with this version where the villains just say they're heroes but never do anything heroic-looking unless it's self-interested or an opportunity to slam non-mutants
>>154071174I really loved it, maybe even more than New X-Men, and consider it the series finale for X-Men. Krakoa never happened, none of that dumb shit, we just got the last episode showing the grief and the callback but that life goes on at the school.
>>154073062your strawman are retarded and not even what occurred, fuck off idiot and stay out all the x-men threads. Tired of shitting them up with whining.
>>154071174lol if u say so
>>154073144That's about as good a mindset as you can have, honestly. I might start treating it the same way.
>>154071174Marvel is so shit that when you go though their supposed greatest hits you find names such as Whedon, Bendis or Slott.
>>154074580>they hated him because he told the truthAt this point if you're still a fan of the X-Men, it's either because you're a characterfag or waifufag for specific characters who are just stuck in those books and you're like a battered housewife who just won't leave, or you lick the boot that kicks you because you are driven by a false sense of understanding and kinship because you falsely believe muh metaphor applies to whatever group you belong to.
>>154073042>>154073062>The X-Men's gradual shift from fighting villains to recruiting them — accelerated around 2007 — has created a continuity so convoluted and morally compromised that newer readers, who only know the villain-turned-hero version of the team, end up defending objectively indefensible character histories they've never had the time or reason to go back and read.Learn how to fucking write. Or at least use AI to summarize it like I did. This sentence is why I can't get into X-Men btw.
>>154078537>Or at least use AI to summarize it like I didyou have no right to be criticizing anyone
>>154078577I wasn't going to read all of that. What's your beef with AI?
>>154071174What about Utopia, Wolverine and the x-men and extention teams? there were heroes.
>>154071174X-Men are highly satanic because they teach little boys to become prostitutes
>>154078894That era was decent but sorta retarded.Gillen making Cyclop the leader and San Francisco was fun, but Magneto felt sorta weird there and things like Colosus.Wolverine being a teacher because "children shouldn't fight" at the same time he was in a spec-ops team that Deadpool left because Wolverine wanted to kill a children is insane.
>>154072350I dunno, prof x wanted to bang his student in the first issue, so never?
Whedon's X-Men were actively fighting against a cure, they weren't heroes, they were just back to dressing like them. Eve of the Destruction was the last time, Lobdell giving a final farewell to the X-Men as heroes.
>>154078189Whedon was coming out fresh out of Buffy and Bandits was superstar writer that made one the best DD runs.
>>154081613Bendis not Bandits
>>154080783Mutants aren't a disease though
>>154081637There is absolutely no downside to a mutant cure. It helps those who have powers that are only a curse and it prevents dangerous mutants from doing more harm on a mass scale. It's not remotely like herding them into camps or killing them, and yet the X-Men will fight against it tooth and nail because they believe every mutant has a right to have special powers even when they use those powers to kill a bunch of innocent people, like even Jean, Warren, Bobby, Scott, and Hank have.
What even caused that? The concept of the X-Men and mutants in general all being shithead dickheads. What possessed a multitude of writers to decide most of the X-Men would be better characters if they were just absolutely terrible people? It's like some weird knock-on effect.
>>154081613Point still stands.
>>154071174Nope
>>154082460The 2000s, essentially. They've always had issues with other superheroes and being too isolationist and jumping to extremist plans while refusing to explain themselves until a conflict starts, but that was kind of a Marvel standard and they weren't necessarily any more dickheaded than the average superhero. It's when guys like Grant Morrison decided they wanted to push the X-men past being plain superheroes and focus more on the "new species" angle that this shit became like a snake eating its tail of the X-men focusing so much on their own struggles that they repel readers who would sympathize due to basically now vocally placing themselves above humanity and thus above the readers. Granted, the main reason for that is that the writers after Grant Morrison didn't understand why he was even doing that to begin with, which was to ironically point out that a superhero team fighting exclusively to protect and promote one group of people over humanity in general is a repellent state of mind that is not going to get the X-men the peace they're fighting for. Which has ironically proven true now that future writers have doubled down on int.
>>154085188Leaning in on mutants as a minority group was pretty obnoxious.
>>154085188>>154085604X-Statix did a better job of showing this than Morrison's run ever did.
>>154071174Moron take. This is literally the volume that had Wolverine try to kill Scott for have sex with Emma roughly a week or so after Jean died
>>154086097I don't remember that. He cracked a joke about it and then Cyclops blasted him out like a an angry child.
>It's another mutant cure story >No you can't be a horrific furry monster beasts, you're an x-man! And anyone who doesn't want to be a mutant isn't worthy of us because we're all special and awesome. You know I get that cure is usually part of some alien villain plot but once the bad guys are thwarted it's not like you can't keep the cure around for extreme cases.
>>154082460Horrible combination of self inserting fanbase and The Metaphor taking over the narrative when the the majority of the people writing are middle class ostensibly liberal whites with a crippling social media addiction. And the whole while this was going on Marvel WAS actively trying to destroy the franchise
This is the same volume that revealed the Danger Room was sentient and the X-Men were keeping it prisoner right?
>>154078632NTA but Sentinels. Except Nimrod. He cool.>>154078921Okay William Stryker. Now tells us how you are more christian than Nightcrawler(the guy who made a cross against Dracula with success) while you are burning in hell.>>154086189Beast being a furball ironically made him more popular amongst people when he was an Avenger. Same with Nightcrawler being blue-ish. God, women lust for him
>>154071174Don't know why this is such a stick-in-the-mud point of contention for muh retvrn types. They're more interesting when they're doing strange and unusual shit in strange and unusual circumstances. Not "oh no, there's a new young mutant in podunk USA that's being rounded up! Let's go team!"
>>154086097>Wolverine try to kill ScottNever happened.>>154086158>Cyclops blasted him out like a an angry childHe did blast him, I wouldn't characterize it as being like an angry child. Imagine you're asleep in bed with your girlfriend and you wake up and your coworker is just hunched over the bed watching you two sleep, I'd optic blast him too.
>>154085188Basically this. You can see how many characters regress or do out of character things.Example is Wolverine. I feel the 2000s made Logan more of an asshole after the 80s and 90s established him to be less asshole-ish and only getting edgy from personal events affecting his life(e.g. Shiva Scenario, Fatal Attraction, the whole Genesis forcing adamantium on him only so it worsens him)Same with Scott. Though he gets worst later on with his wannabe cracker Malcolm X
>>154088634I rather have them go beat mutant groups and some people are like "okay X-Men saved my life from those bad mutants so idk about the whole 'mutants' bad."Also remember when X-Men had a christian human ally who genuinely believed Mutants were also creation of God and he even said that he thanks Gid for them saving his life, instead of "oh gee William Stryker 2.0"?
>>154081613>one the best DD runs.No his run is pretty shit
>>154079314Deadpool never left, he stuck around and ultimately saved the clone of that child from becoming a new Apocalypse. Wolverine was convinced to spare the original child, Fantomex killed him on his own. >>154087327Yeah, but only Professor X knew.
>>154086097>Scott for have sex with Emma roughly a week or so after Jean diedMorrison really wanted that ship to happen and didn't let any character react realistically to it>Morrison wants to ship Scott with Emma>Has Scott cheat on Jean for vaguely defined reasons>Kills off Jean (again)>Writes an entire arc dedicated to the dead Jean giving Scott her blessing to continue to fuck Emma>Ends his run with Scott and Emma making out at Jean's graveWhat the fuck was his problem?
>>154088602>Beast being a furball ironically made him more popular amongst people when he was an Avenger. Same with Nightcrawler being blue-ish. God, women lust for himWell yes, but I'm referring more to cases like Wither. Even Rogue really ought to have more to say on this issue. And even popular with ladies or not there are times when they'd rather be human.
>>154090128That tumblr post is only really accurate in the movie series. In the Whedon run, Wolverine is entirely correct that if an X-Man takes it, it will be used as license to depower every mutant. A powerful minority HATE mutants with a burning passion. Stryker saying “kill all mutants, total mutant death now” made him massively famous, and had average people saying he had a point. He had insiders in the US government who sold out the X-Men to him.
>>154090225Wolverine is not the one who's a big blue furball. He's a violent asshole who likes to push people around and reacts with violence to his "friends" crisis of conscious. The X-men act like they're the public kings and queens of mutants when maybe the best thing they could have done for anyone was fuck off. They're the ones who decided they were a new species and they all do it in their mansion.
>>154090225Wolverine's killed a ton of innocent people while mind controlled. He doesn't deserve to have powers, he's too dangerous.
>>154090424Wolverine has been in that exact same situation before, and he’s right that Hank is a celebrity with a larger amount of public scrutiny on his every action. The rest of that isn’t even true, Professor X’s scientific papers that they were technically a new species was enough for Stryker to decide they all had to die. The X-Men act as the face of mutants because if it wasn’t them, it would be Magneto, or Mystique, or the Hellfire Club, all of whom only want to exploit everyone around them for their own gain.
>>154090128>Even Rogue really ought to have more to say on this issue.Except Rogue learned to control her powers AGES ago in the comics.Also that whole tumblr post is kinda annoying because it comes from a movie universe that later on reveals the cure wears off.Not to mention it makes Rogue a wuss and the lack of knowledge that Storm's powers require her to maintain control over her mental and emotional, something Doom learned this the hard way.>>154090424Wolverine is the guy who got kidnapped, tortured and his mind fucked over to the point he was feral.>"wrong, you are an X-Man"Once again another writter who never read stories like Shiva Scenario to understand Logan's fear of losing his humanity
>>154090640He’s being a dick about it but he knows that Hank can manage it. Hank does handle it later on with the help of Professor X.
>>154090630God, I forget when Genesis tried to force Adamantium on him after Magneto ripped it off and it mde him worst.And I thought Pestilence screwing up Hank's mind was bad.
>>154090715Logan being a dick is kinda unsurprising. Even around outback era he could be a prick and he was nicer during that time period cuz he didn't had the mind-fucker plot he got around the early 90s
>>154090640>Except Rogue learned to control her powers AGES ago in the comics.Yeah, that's not really the point. It took her YEARS and well into her adulthood to learn to control her powers. It absolutely destroyed her young life. And this was because she had someone around to teach her. Because here's the big issue the X-men never want to bring up. Not every single mutant will be able to go to mutant school. >>154090715>with the help of Professor XBeing the key words. Imagine some kid in the middle of fucknowhere. His or her powers click on and now they're either a walking danger to everyone around them or a pariah. What would cyclops have done if Xavier never adopted him? He couldn't keep his eyes shut forever.
>>154090768In the very next page Logan says he doesn’t care if anyone else wants to take the cure, it’s specifically because Hank is an X-Men that he does not want him to take it. They need to present a unified front so the US Government who historically hates them doesn’t force it on everyone.
>>154091000What's so bad about being forced to lose powers you never deserved in the first place? This is not like killing people or herding them into camps. Just removing a liability. If they still want to play hero, they can do it like Clint Barton, Tony Stark, and Hank Pym.
>>1540911683 years before this the US government empowered a military employee of theirs to do just that, round up mutants into an concentration camp and then kill them all. Killing them is the next step.
>>154091276What the fuck continuity are you talking about, because as usual you're doing the X-fag thing of taking in every single goddamn piece of X-men media to prove a dumbass point
>>154071174If Emma is there, they can't be heroic. Ever.
>>154090768>Yeah, that's not really the pointYes it is because: A) you brought up Rogue and, B) that stupid tumblr post about the movie that literally makes her a wussie>It took her YEARS and well into her adulthood to learn to control her powers. It absolutely destroyed her young lifeAnd she learned to make the best of it. Unlike the movie counterpart that is a wuss and the cure wears off anyways.>And this was because she had someone around to teach her. Because here's the big issue the X-men never want to bring up. Not every single mutant will be able to go to mutant school.More like the movie never brought it up. But hey, what do you expect from a movie that makes Juggernaut a mutant.>What would cyclops have done if Xavier never adopted him? He couldn't keep his eyes shut foreverHe would still wear the ruby quartz Glasses duh. Idk why you even say this
>>154091375This was in 616. Even if you don’t want to include that story, William Stryker’s crusade, solely consisting of “murder mutants” being well received by the general public is enough to prove Wolverine’s point.
>>154090640She learned to control her powers around 2018, which in comics time, it's like two years ago at most. And that's because Spiral had to hack her brain.And it had little to do with her development as a character, but because she was already married to Gambit and they needed to solve that quick so fans could see them having intimate scenes.
>>1540914322010s X-Men having rushed out stories? Must be a day that ends with Y
>>154091414>that stupid tumblr post about the movie that literally makes her a wussieShe did this in TAS, I think during the first seasons. She was ready to be cured and things went wrong for her and couldn't happen. Obviously, it was the plot stopping her from doing it so Angel would be the one turned into one of the Horsemen, but she was up to lose her powers. The movie likely took it from there and, at no moment, you see her as a wussie, but someone who truly didn't deserve the type of powers she got. She could fly and be invincible, but she couldn't even hold hands with her boyfriend.
>>154091497Rushing it so they can draw them both in bed is a total new low, even for Marvel.
>>154091518You know this reminds me of when they did that ruahsed marriage with Doug and Bei in X of Swords.Ironically it was one of the few things I liked about X of Swords. Next to Saturnyne getting fucked over and the First Horseman of Death.That aside, was that whole thing about Gambit and Rogue done by Gail Simone?
>>154091729Oh Kelly Thompson, okay you win this time Simone.
>>154091276>3 years before this the US government empowered a military employee of theirs to do just that, round up mutants into an concentration camp and then kill them all. Killing them is the next step.A few years before that a mutant launched an EMP attack on the planet and killed thousands of people.
>>154085604>Leaning in on mutants as a minority group was pretty obnoxious.They managed in a matter of minutes to immediately turn mutants into everything bad about insular minority communities and their resentment of the majority, refusal to follow the laws and societal norms, made worse by their obsession with a "culture" they made up five minutes ago and which they keep telling you about but there's nothing to show because nobody at Marvel knew what it was beyond some bands and one fashion designer.It was the point where the X-Men othered themselves, where they decided Magneto and Stryker were both right, mutants aren't human and from there decided mutants shouldn't have to live like humans.>>154087011>And the whole while this was going on Marvel WAS actively trying to destroy the franchiseAnon, this started in 2001 when Marvel was actively trying to capitalize on the movie doing better than expected. Despite the fandom's persecution complex, Marvel weren't "actively trying to destroy the X-Men franchise" in the 2000s, it's the mid 2010s when they scaled down the number of books and kept them out of merch and games for a few years.The idea that Morrison was on DC's payroll the whole time he was wrecking X-Men on a conceptual level is at least a funnier conspiracy theory.
>>154088775Imagine your wife just died and you're immediately in bed with the homewrecking whore that you cheated on her with. You'd deserve an ass-kicking from her friends and from your own friends too.>>154088901>Though he gets worst later on with his wannabe cracker Malcolm XIt's genuinely awful how so many people prefer that version of Cyclops and self-insert as him.>>154089804It's shocking just how many superhero marriages or relationships were tanked just because one single guy didn't ship it, didn't care for one of the two characters, and wanted to make fetch happen instead. It's even more shocking how many readers just go along with it every time.
>>154081613>that made one the best DD runsIs only loved but Quesada fans who want to pretend that between Miller and Kevin smith is nothing worth reading.Basically the same problem Batman had.
Honestly mutants are really mutants, sentinels like nimrod should kill them all, excluding chamber, blink, beak and blob, they’re the definition of mutants but they’re cool.
>>154096481Blob was spoiled forever by Ultimate. Sorry, anon. But any time anyone thinks of that character they think of that one page.
>>154096158>Anon, this started in 2001 when Marvel was actively trying to capitalize on the movie doing better than expected. Despite the fandom's persecution complex, Marvel weren't "actively trying to destroy the X-Men franchise" in the 2000s, it's the mid 2010s when they scaled down the number of books and kept them out of merch and games for a few years.>The idea that Morrison was on DC's payroll the whole time he was wrecking X-Men on a conceptual level is at least a funnier conspiracy theory.That's a hell of an extrapolation from one sentence, I think you filled in a shitton of blanks that weren't there. Besides the latter half of the X-men's turn from minority heroes to racial militia WAS during the time when Marvel was trying to destroy them and replace them with the Inhumans, from Schism to the start of Krakoa the brand was in a nearly unrecoverable death spiral
>>154090630NTA but in a situation where the cure is actually on the up and up, why shouldn't Hank be allowed to say "if your mutation is debilitating enough, it's ok to want the cure"
>>154096481Gambit and Nightcrawler are like the only A-lister mutants I'd add to that list since they didn't do shit in Krakoa so they weren't part of the group of retards that were chill with every war crime that went down
>>154096176That's the worst version of Scott and he gets away with a good chunk cuz "he was always right" fuck no.I prefer the wrapped too tight Scott who would fuck you over for his bro Logan(even if they butt heads)
>>154094901Didn't Magneto do that because he had enough and was losing his mind?I legit remember he was getting sick of the world governments not leaving him alone, but said event also has him ripping Adamantium out of Wolverine(which is worst than you think)>>154096481>Doesn't know Nimrod teamed up with Mutants to destroy a Master MoldOh wait, that's the cooler Nimrod, not that Krakoa era loser with quirky dialogue.
>>154091276That makes no sense. Once a mutant is cured, that individual is not a mutant anymore. There's no reason at all to round up humans who used to be mutants.>>154096296O'Neil, Nocenti and Chichester were pretty good, but then Bobbie Chase fucked it up and Harras's tenure put the final nails in the coffin.>>154097481The Inhuman push and the phoning-it-in-era of the X-Men IP so Fox wouldn't be able to take advantage didn't start until 2016 and it stopped around 2019 after Disney had acquired Fox and got their mutants back.
>>154099000They still did that despite being "cured. X-Tinction Agenda got X-Men with no powers and Hodge still wanted to exterminate them, to the point he was willing to murder normal humans too.
>>154098225Gambit and Kurt should leave the xmen already.
The problem of Mutants isn't they got mutant powers.It's that they are born mutants(genetical dvieation) and many groups hate them for it, even if they lose those powers.Same with Inhumans. Stryker hates Inhumans too even though not every Inhuman has super powers at all.It all comes to the matter of genetics.
>>154099584Fun fact: Kurt was not an X-Men during the late 80s and the 90s btw.He was part of Excalibur(which was led by the magically enhanced Captain Britain)
>>154099000JMD , Kelly and Kessel are still good , and I remember Karen Page character development which was wreck because Kevin Smith
>>154099585 (me)>dvieationESL moment
>>154099314Hodge was an insane decapitated head who had sold his soul to a demon, he was going to be evil to everyone, that's his nature.>>154099585Mutants are hated because they either look like monsters or have dangerous powers. No one's going to know or care about someone's genetics if they look and act like normal people.
>>154098317>Didn't Magneto do that because he had enough and was losing his mind?No he didn't because earth tried to build a force field to keep him out specifically because they were sick of his bullshit and he had a massive tantrum. Also note, He didn't even want to be on Earth anymore in the first place at this point.
>>154100339And even that monster bit is up in the air assuming you're not acting like a cultist asshole.
>>154078331you write the tired bullshit in literally every single thread x-men are even mentioned, get a life.
>>154082365its a story device genius, what if I made a nigger cure in a world where everyone is in the klan.
>>154090640>Wolverine is the guy who got kidnapped, tortured and his mind fucked over to the point he was feral.yeah by beast lol.
>>154091729that was lame, they should have kept doug with danger.
>>154102220Then you might have an interesting hook for a story. You have a threat. You have people who need to wrestle with deep seated emotional problems. Should a character take an easy out or stick to their guns. It's a story device they introduce then immediately discard instead of exploring the long term ramifications. Like by all accounts some one in a lab should be able to brew it up at any given time.
>>154102220If people hate you for your behavior and there's a cure for that behavior, there's no problem.The X-Men in post-2000 comics act like they deserve to have life-endangering schizophrenia. Back when they were written like heroes, this wasn't the case. The 90s cartoon did an episode where someone had discovered a cure (which turned out to be fake, it was just Apocalypse tricking mutants into becoming his slaves). The X-Men's attitude wasn't "We have to stop this" it was "We're fine with this being an option."
>>154102389That's what you want, long term ramifications isn't what whedon wanted to write or editorial wanted to make into a lasting issue. its also incredibly convenient and lazy to just have it perfect revert physical mutations, turning off globs x-gene would more likely kill him, beast it would be do nothing for his physical appearance, or like that gangly ass chick in way of x who got depowered on M day and got left fucked up.
>>154102545See even the kids show version used to be more insightful. Characters wrestled with more profound ideas of sorrow and loneliness. They wondered if there was a place and hope in the world for themselves. Power was a burden. There were good days and upsides but it was a burden all the same. If you put the cure on the table even the more, seemingly, stoic members might consider it. Now it's just WE'RE MUTANTS AND EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO DEAL WITH IT! It doesn't cut the same way. There's no pathos to day.
>>154102545>If people hate you for your behavior and there's a cure for that behavior, there's no problem.That's a fantasy, people hate each other based off status and appearance. Your judgements about people are made in micro seconds. Super models get away with anything and people literally think the quality of your appearance is equal to your personality.
>>154102759>That's a fantasy, people hate each other based off status and appearance.This is how children and people of lower-intelligence behave.
>>154102701Why because a character expressed that and one dude disagreed with him. You're arguing about nothing.>They wondered if there was a place and hope in the world for themselves. Power was a burden. There were good days and upsides but it was a burden all the same.So basically 90% of the x-men all the time. Including practically everyone being shown to feel like immediately after krakoa.
>>154102824>This is how children and people of lower-intelligence behave.yeah sure buddy just 99.9% of people then, including you even if you want to believe you're better.
>>154102870If this were accurate, multicultural societies and trade simply wouldn't exist, outsiders would be destroyed on sight.
>>154090424>m-muh fingars, muh smoochiesYou should never assume beast has a point or that he's right about anything. Turns out this "character crisis" gets resolved by fucking a 10/10 baddie and his victimhood was just about fear of not getting pussy after turning into a cat, something he did to himself btw, and he was willing to sell out everyone over it.
>>154103658Oh no there would be no more mutants and there would only just be a bunch of other heroes willing to step up to beat the bad guy of the month
>>154104041yeah I'm sure luke cage would have killed nemesis.
>>154102545As soon as Xmen became more and more a metaphor for fags, the idea is a cure was treated as "conversion therapy". The cartoon showed that mutants who wanted a cure were people whose powers hurt them, like Rogue or a woman who actually killed everything she touched. Even Angel who only had his wings felt he wasn't happy with them (it was the plot needing him to be Death, desu). Gambit saying in the comic that's tempting is ironic because he had removed some of his powers when they were out of control, so any criticism of a cure is bs as nobody's judging him for doing what he could to not let his powers destroy everything around him.
>>154102701The show version has the xmen being only adults except for Jubilee, who was the Kitty of the time. That's an important thing to consider because the show treated the xmen as adults, with adult problems when they were not fighting villains. Current mutants act all like teenagers and the cast keeps getting stuffed with children, like Uncanny right now.
>>154102851That's honestly because Marvel wants to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to mutants. They want them to be conventionally pretty and attractive, but also want them to be considered freaks with no place in the world to continue making writing their drama easy. It makes characters like Iceman and Storm who genuinely could pass for normal if they just didn't use their powers look like drama queens compared to like Angel who can't go out in public without a harness, or Cyclops who could decapitate someone with eye punches if he lost his glasses, or especially Nightcrawler who kind of didn't ever have a choice in the matter. Hell, it makes them look much worse by comparison when you consider that they live in the same world as Ben Grimm, Howard the Duck, and Silver Surfer, and none of them have ever bellyached about being persecuted and misunderstood nearly as much as the X-men ever have.
>>154088602>Except Nimrod. He cool.They really dropped the ball. After dive bombing Krakoa he could have had an epic comic run of hunting down C&D-list muties while spouting quippy one-liners.
>>154100809Magneto lowered a massive space station into Earth's atmosphere in a show of force that ravaged the entire globe with extreme storms and tides. That led to a network of satellites being used to create an energy field designed to stop him from returning to Earth. Despite having two teleporters on his team who could both circumvent this force field, and his space station having it's own built-in teleporters that could do the same, he threw that tantrum and destroyed those satellites with a massive EMP that also caused a global blackout because how dare they attempt to retaliate against his terrorism even in a "just go away and leave us alone" kind of way?
>>154104427Even Jubilee's problems felt a lot more mature. The reason the characters felt like adults is because the writers were adults.
>>154089804Grant and Joe Casey explicitly wanted Jean/Logan as a couple and made it clear in interviews that was the plan they intended to implement by the end of their first year on the book, with Casey himself dedicating his first issue to setting it up.Fan response to this was negative to say the least, to the point that Quesada had to step in and kill the entire plan. Casey pretty much stopped giving a shit and was gone within a year since his entire run was going to be heavy Jean/Logan driven with them forming an all freak X-Men team. Grant got more passive aggressive and decided that if Jean couldn't be an adulteress, then Scott would be an adulterer instead with Emma and that he would kill Jean off, purely out of spite on his way out the door.
>>154104445They're mostly white chads and stacies so people will actually read it. I don't find the idea of them taking a magic pill and losing their mutations and turn into normie model chads so everything is great and easy for them compelling, yeah no shit that's not how life works sorry. It was shit when they did it to Beak when he should have turned into a 3/10 incel manlet whose life actually worse without having the social connection of the x-men and their billionaire resources.
>>154090640Rogue never learned to control her power. The big twist in X-Men Legacy, was that Rogue like Cyclops, had a power that could be turned on and off but couldn't do so because of the amount of willpower it requires being beyond the normal person's ability... However, Xavier could just use his telepathic powers to rewire their brains to negate this issue and give them control over their powers.But Emma Frost, ever the Mary Sue, revealed that Xavier never did this to Scott because he wanted Scott to learn to control his powers the hard way to give him confidence so he could be a better leader and he explicitly withheld this fix from Rogue to force her to give up her evil ways as a villain
>>154105582I swear it was supposed to be like brain damage or something with scott from the airplane wreck, am I just imagining this? Wasn't it in whedon's run?
>>154105710Must be another retcon, bc it was later revealed that Rogue couldn't control her powers due to trauma, as a defense mechanism due to how extreme her power is. Remember that she never had any guide but Mystique, and she was already an adult when she joined the X-Men. Iicr, during that time, they wanted Emma to be indeed the Mary Sue and solve everybody's problem. She was also Rogue and Gambit's therapist and she didn't help much. More than 15 years later she just could control her power. Go figure.
>>154105477I'll never get the jean/wolverine thing. They aren't even a good match. Seems like he'd go for domino or kwannon if they have to write him with another team member.
>>154105710When he was a little kid he and his family where in a plane crash. Their father pushed him and Alex out to save them and Scott hit his head and that's why he couldn't control it. They were also powered by the sun and no stupid punch dimension.
>>154106473What if I told you that the sun was powered by the punch dimension?
>>154107328You know what? Sure why not at this point. Fuck it. Nothing matters.
>>154104612I'm talking about the Nimrod thart told Master Mold to kill itself and says "hombre"Krakoa Nimrod is cringe, just like 99% of the era.>>154106466Or Mariko but you know Marvel will never understand>>154105582>Emma ForstOf course the King Von of X-men will ruin things
>>154104384More like the opposite. Angel losing his weings causes him to be take advantage by Hodge and Apocalypse exploits that like the Chad he is Praise be CHADpocalypse
>>154104384Ngl it's funny the best gay rep on Mutant comes from Alpha Flight and they tried to copy it with bad results
>>154108673Sunfire is a national hero of Japan. Any mutant on the Avengers is a celebrity. It literally is just the X-men.
>>154098269Oh right he gets the phoenix force and turns into Mussolini. With the Phoenix Five being his Axis
>>154108624That's the comic. I meant the cartoon when he just wanted to be normal despite all he had was his wings that he seemed to be good at hiding.Third movie takes a lot from the show because Angel here is forced by his anti mutant father to get the cure, which he later rejects. I don't remember his family being like this. Rogue also takes the cure here because she's the one wanting it in TAS.
>>154108984It's just because the plot needs it.Watched some days ago a guy reacting to X2, and during the scene when Bobby tells his parents he's a mutant, the guy is like "it's not such a big deal". He's right, it makes no sense they're so mad that their son has super powers that he can hide perfectly unless he chooses to use them, it's not like he's Kurt or a Morlock.Funny thing is that, in canon, before knowing he was a mutant, people praised Gambit's eyes and nobody cared he had powers. Apparently you can accept a child with demonic eyes and there is no problem until you know it's a mutation and then you need to kill the child...
>>154111087His parents aren't mad about it. That scene is like 30 seconds.
>>154111087Gambits eyes look cool in a drawing, in real life he'd look off putting. There's a reason they didn't do them in either live action adaption. Tatum's fat ass needs to lose some weight btw if he's coming back.
>>154111142Bobby's? His parents are devastated by the news and their other kid called the police just because his brother was a mutant.
>>154111181He has lost weight and they've made his eyes light up when he uses his powers.
>>154096176>Imagine your wife just died and you're immediately in bed with the homewrecking whore that you cheated on her with. You'd deserve an ass-kicking from her friends and from your own friends too.You mean the same Logan that was trying to fuck Jean and kissed her multiples times despite knowing she was in a relationship with Scott ? This Logan ? He's the last person who should try to take the moral high ground on whatever Scott does. People really try to pretend Jean wasn't having thought of eloping with Logan or didn't kiss him or express feeling for him multiple time before Scott ever had an affair with Emma but somehow it's only Scott who get branded as the cheater.
>>154111208Devastated is an exaggeration, his mom is just an exasperated Karen. His brother's motivation seemed to be jealousy to me. Its also right after the striker raid which was national news and they knew they were at the school, which is why like 20 cops show up.
>>154098225Nightcrawler was on the quiet council alongside the like of Mystique and Destiny and all the others villain.
>>154111260Night crawler and Gambit tend to be given a pass despite being just as enmeshed in the Krakoa bullshit because they’re the only ones to either call out the other mutants on how fucked up they’re being or try and remain friends with the non-mutants despite how strained the otherX-men make things. Gambit was part of Krakoa’s Excalibur team, but didn’t drink the kool-aid like his friends and just wanted to enjoy his marriage with Rogue, even respecting her decision to not have children despite it being mutant law. Kurt, the guy who not only made that mutant law but also tried to start a mutant religion and lead their internal police as well as being on the quiet council, was also one of the few who was cognizant of how their new lifestyle and mentality was poisoning them and tried fighting back against it in his own way. His problems though was that he was a loyal hound on a council full of vipers, and none of his efforts at either internal nor spiritual reformation made amy real headway before he got mind control led by Orchis into a high profile international incident and willingly exiled himself for that brief and odd Spider-Man disguise phase.Point is, while there were a few mutants that didn’t drink the kool-aid, Gambit and Nightcrawler tend to get a pass because despite being just as big a part of the Krakoa regime their overall personalities remained the same and consistent across titles. As a counter example, Wolverine flip-flopped on just how much he bought into the Krakoa propaganda, with his own title emphasizing that he was only on Krakoa because he knew it was too good to be true and wanted to protect the other X-men from the fallout before leaving Krakoa after witnessing one too many dirty dealing, to the other books where he’s full on mutant supremacist and preaching how She-Hulk is jelly that mutants have an exclusive club she can’t join or trying to outright murder the Fantastic Four to kidnap Franklin for mutant sex island.
