>Hush>Morlun>Veronica Cale>Ruin>Zeiss>Onomatopeia>Manchester Black>Desaak>Hunter Zolomon>RemnantWho was the best and the worst "new villains" of the 00s?The most known is Hush but I like Manchester.
>>154162515Manchester Black and Hunter Zoloman both have decent stories and characterization, Onomatopia at least has a striking design, but I'd say Veronica Cale and Morlun are the worst.
Manchester Black, Hush, Zooare my favorites from that list. The sad thing about Hush is he doesn't work outside his first installment, sort of like Decon Blackfire. They fit their stories perfectly but anything more would be redundant to the main idea behind them
>>154162566>Veronica Cale and Morlun are the worst.They are the most annoying because author keep bringing them back.
>>154162515Is veronica cale so terrible? thought she was just lex luthor for wonder woman
>>154162515Does inque from Batman beyond count? She was great. Morlun and Hush are decent concepts ruined by shitty writing.
>>154162515Morlun isn’t even the worst Spider-Man villain of the 00s. His debut storyline and The Other are both great. Fusion is a character who appears to have every power but is actually just an illusionist who wants to kill Spider-Man because his son tried to webswing and died. I think Hush’s motivations are completely absurd, bordering on parody. And him being treated as a physical threat in the subsequent sequels makes no sense because he’s just a brain surgeon, Dini had the sense enough to give Harley an explanation for her physicality but as far as I know Tommy is just strong for no reason.
>>154163626Interesting premise, terrible concept, decent execution. Should stick to the Court of Owls and epsteinlike billionaire villains
>>154162515Red Hood fucking sucked
>>154163692The only 00s Spiderman villains that I remember are most BND villains that only appeared one time, Mr Negative and Morlun.
So Marvel didn't have many notable 2000s villains?
>>154162566i thought Cale had been around for a bit longer, but i've only read her in 52 and Abs. WW and i never really thought she was that offensive. what's wrong with her?
>>154162515I don't know.
Might be slightly before the era you're talking about, but I've always liked Prometheus, it's a shame no one has really utilized him very well.
>>154162515Morlun is one of the worst characters ever created. He was shit in Straczynski's run and he's worse and worse every time they bring him back. They gave him a Morlun Family and made it even fucking worse. There is legitimately zero good Morlun stories for as big and important as he's made out to be. Absolutely abominable character.>>154167410Prometheus is whatever. I hate the idea that people act like he was poorly used and made into a jobber after his JLA appearance when said story has him get defeated by Catwoman. He looks stupid, has a dumb gimmick and lost by getting whipped in the dick. He's a fucking loser and was written appropriately.
>>154162515>>154162515why call him hushthats jason todd
>>154162515>BestUnironically Red Hood(Jason Todd)>WorstHush
>>154165486I think Cale was around way before the 2000s but started getting used more around that time.A lot of the hate directed at Cale come from her not living up to the 'Wonder Woman's Lex Luthor' hype that writers attached to her. I don't think she's a bad character or villain. Frankly, I'd prefer her to be pushed over some of the other WW villains, especially Grail.
>>154167578same anonmy mistake im just remembering it wrong
>>154167540i don't really love Prometheus either, but i'll have to disagree on some points there. his design is probably his saving grace honestly, the helmet design is great, and i really like the big white cape he has. his gimmick is okay, but it does cheapen the "evil Batman" stuff by just having a supercomputer in his helmet basically do everything for him. if Killer Moth is "evil Batman" in the sense that he offers protection to criminals and tries to help them sleep easy at night from Batman and other heroes, Prometheus is "evil Batman" in his insane obsession and planning. the supercomputer can offer advice in a similar vein to Jarvis in the MCU or Alfred in the new Fraction run, but ultimately, it should be Prometheus himself who does all the work and has a "plan for everything". he should be the one that's paranoid and has a plan in case of anything and everything, who other villains reluctantly work with because he's useful but not because they really like the guy if Killer Moth is evil Batman by fulfilling the role Batman has with the innocent but for criminals, Prometheus should be evil Batman by fulfilling the role he has with the Justice League but for the Legion of Doom/Society of Super-Villains. at least, that's how i think he can be fixed - i don't think he's inherently a bad character, he has some potential to be cool but writers seem to insist on making him overly badass which actually prevents him from being cool (by which, i only really mean Cry for Justice - it's pretty much the only big Prometheus story i've read)
>>154165486>>154167652The problem with Veronica Cale is Greg Rucka. When he created her in 2003 he did so explicitly to ape the Superman/Lex Luthor dynamic which means that he was intentionally trying to copypaste other characters and their dynamic into Wonder Woman using a stand-in. Originally Cale had practically nonexistent motivations for her grudge against WW and a paper thin personality, she didn't start getting fleshed out until Giffen put her in Doom Patrol where she's practically a new character. Fast forward to Rebirth and Rucka brings her back (because pretty much everything he's done for the past decade is dusting off scripts he wrote in the early 00s) where this time he remembers to give her a motivation, so now she has a never before seen or mentioned daughter who got her face stolen by mythological beings so now Cale leads a globe spanning organization dedicated to killing mythology. And she needs Wonder Woman to save her daughter which makes a lot of the actions she's taken in her appearances have been actively detrimental to her stated motivation. I'm all for WW having a corporate villain, she's had them before, but Cale is an underwhelming writer's pet created explicitly because Rucka wanted to copy Superman. And just as a personal opinion, I fully believe that while Rucka loves Wonder Woman as a character concept, he is rather disinterested and dismissive of Wonder Woman the comic book. >>154167839Prometheus is a character whose origin and MO reads better in a comic than it can be described. He is mostly a riff on "Batgod" and the power boosts/sci-fi gadgets Batman gets when showing up in JL comics. You really should read his JLA appearances and his Midnighter story arc (it gets joked about a lot but he spends several issues manipulating a guy who can predict all his actions and Midnighter doesn't notice until the reveal).
>>154162515Manny Black is great. I liked Zeiss. I hate Kevin Bitch but I do think Onomatopoeia is a clever character, despite the awkward name. All the rest I could do without, honestly.
zolomon was a great way to give Wally his own Nemesis
>>154169280>Cale is an underwhelming writer's pet created explicitly because Rucka wanted to copy Superman.And ruin felt like he is copying the Hush arc even though the revelations didn't made sense.People say Kelly can't create good villains outside Black (although I like Godfall's kryptonian one) but Rucka has an worse trackrecord
>>154162515Most of them are just used too little and underdeveloped because writers prefer to use characters they’re already familiar with and fans of.Hush is fun character because he’s basically just really petty and jealous of Bruce.Morlun’s issue is mostly that it’s kinda diminishing returns deal with him but he isn’t terrible. Veronica Cale suffers from not being used consistently like Lex is. She should be a regular background antagonist even when she isn’t directly tied to the main baddie.Nothing wrong with Zeiss, he just needs to be brought back. Maybe he’s one of Black Mask’s or Penguin’s bodyguards.Onomatopoeia is gimmicky but usable, he’s largely tricky because it’s hard to do him as a main baddie guy but as a side villain entirely fine. People should use him in that capacity.Manchester is a character you just need to use sparingly, he doesn’t work as regular bad guy.Desak the God Slayer meanwhile is pretty lame and forgettable. There’s a reason Gorr has replaced him.Hunter is another villain that’s great as long as you don’t use him too often. Having a twisted motivational aspect to his villainy is great.Remant? Who has ever cared about Remnant? Nuff said
>>154167839>but it does cheapen the "evil Batman" stuff by just having a supercomputer in his helmet basically do everything for him.So what. He’s kinda evil Midnighter, it’s totally okay because it also works a weakness so his defeats are easy to accept and don’t feel asspulls when he’s meant to he hypercompetent.It is true that he should be treated more as a team level villain.
>>154167839He looks and is retarded and I have to wonder if Morrison was doing the entire character as a rib. "Yeah here's evil Batman and he's lame."
>>154169280Cale would be simple. Diana is about love and understanding/truth but Cale came up in the backstabbing corporate world. Diana puts everyone before herself but the corporate world is not made for love and selflessness. Diana finds fulfillment in what she does but Cale is so warped by her career that she can never find fulfillment, think a guy like Elon who has everything and needs more because everything can never fill the void inside. Diana's existence and philosophy is as opposite of Cale's and it makes Cale seethe to no end because Diana came man's world and got feted while Cale came up in the male-dominated corporate world and had her soul destroyed doing it.This shit isn't hard.
>>154171283>think a guy like Elon who has everything and needs more because everything can never fill the void inside.Yawn. Another projecting leftard who seethes that SpaceX mogs NASA in sending stuff to space despite NASA being decades older and having infinite government money. All to give us Lex Luthor who seethes about male peers. What made her distinguishing was being a tragic mother, but that still is just Luthor with more sympathetic/personal motive for blind hatred. Better idea. She is CEO of pharmacist corporation with incurable son, despite all the money and medical advancements. All while Greek gods sit on ambrosia, which is a miraculous drug that also makes people immortal. But Zeus won't share, while making it widespread would result in problems ranging from making the Joker non-plot armor immortal to overpopulation. So, this isn't an issue you can simply solve by punching a baddie.This makes it similar to Mr. Freeze, but you can kill the son and then Cale just becomes obsessed with making humanity immortal to spite the gods and prove herself right despite all the consequences she is risking.
>>154171477NASA doesn’t have infinite money, they’ve been cutting budgets for NASA for ages and SpaceX literally was built around subcontracting for NASA
>>154171477Musk's a faggot no matter what. irrespective of the successes of SpaceX, as a person, he's a total fucking faggot who pretends he cares about things just for brownie points and is obsessed with being praised. he's absolutely a loser i think the idea you have is pretty decent though. i still kinda prefer the other anon's idea of having Cale be an ideological opposite to Diana, someone who doesn't care or trust other people, but i like the idea of Cale trying to spite the Gods
>>154171477You do know the meme "we lost the technology to go to the moon" originates from the fact that NASAs budget has been raped so much by the federal goverment that they no longer have the infrastructure that they had in the 60s?
>>154171500>they’ve been cutting budgets for NASA for agesThat's a point against the government who has infinity money but has no obligation to be profitable >and SpaceX literally was built around subcontracting for NASAIn other words, doing NASA job for cheaper and better.
>>154171543> he's a total fucking faggot who pretends he cares about things just for brownie points and is obsessed with being praisedWait till you hear about politicians.
>>154171564SpaceX isn’t even profitable as a company
>>154171573yeah? i hate them too. Elon tries way too hard to be liked, it's insanely pathetic and faggy behavior.>hehe, i'm like, super dank and based, wouldn't you say my fellow brothers in pepe?????? please tell me i'm cool now
Unironically Elon Mush would work as a villain.Luthor development was mostly using Trump (his yuppie years for Wolfman/Byrne or his 2000 presidential run) so having a not-Elon would work and is a hated person for the left and right so only few people still cares about him.
>>154171283>>154171477Skip the tragic mother, Cale's theme should be self-serving performativeness. Cale sells herself as this brilliant woman out to heal the world, in reality she's the money guy who built her company on the back of exploitative healthcare practices. She presents herself as a loving mother when her kid stays in a distant boarding school unless photo ops are needed. She sells herself as a considerate, compassionate corporate leader while violating labor laws, health regulations, and medical ethics constantly. She's a dangerously self-centered and arrogant person who took one look at the danger and mystery of Diana's world and thought, "I'mma run that shit now." Her beef with Diana should be based on some petty bullshit that only Cale is fixated on and Diana is at a loss as to what she did. And she's passive-aggressive as fuck about it too, never actively fighting Diana - she has people for that.>>154171548It's a meme because the design documents are stored in obsolete storage formats used by obsolete computers using long-since superceded programming languages. It's easier and cheaper to make new designs on modern hardware than trying to access the specs designed in the 50s.
>>154171730Trump worked in the 80s because he was an amoral and cutthroat property developer who had no problems fucking people over to meet his goals. Elon doesn't work because he's a thin-skinned, neurotic, egocentric, terminally online asshole who fucked himself up on ketamine. Doesn't quite have the "I bribed local officials to seize your home for pennies on the dollar and sell it to me for even cheaper" malice of 80s Trump.
>>154172637Elon works as an evil but also fundamentally inept tech bro
>>154162515I liked Professor Pyg
>>154174434Me too, and Doflamingo from batman reborn era.
>>154162515Hush, but only after Dini essentially re-invented him. Onomatopeia had potential but the series got axed
>>154162515Is he meant to look like Unknown Soldier?
>>154174434My problem with Pyg is that, like Gordon's son, his best moments are against Dick.But Nightwing writers rather has to made new villains. Which is funny because Watter trying to made bludhaven spooky would be a nice fit for Pyg
>>154171548And yet they receive millions of dollars every year
Wow, leftists are obsessed with the culture war.
>>154172637>Elon doesn't work becauseHe did nothing wrong.
>>154176572Do they?
>>154162515That would be Mr. Negative. Really simple gimmick and design that just works well. He's like one of the only good additions Slott ever made to Spider-Man.
>>154171500Most people who have expertise in the aerospace field who I've spoken to/read seem to think that NASA is very dysfunctional and SpaceX is very impressive. Which makes more sense to me than the alternative.
>>154179137It doesn't work with this art.
