How do we make ironman cool and not just a shitty version of Batman?
>>154172525>and not just a shitty version of Batman?he's not very similar to Batman
>>154172525Kill him off and replace him with a genius black female who discovered a Stark AI which guides her to become the new Iron (Fe)man
>>154172525>and not just a shitty version of Batman?at the time iron man was made, batman was still firmly "old money" and wayne enterprises didnt even exist until 1974batman wasnt remade into a suave modern businessman until the 80svery early ironman was more like macguyver than batman, inventing things out of thin air to solve problemsbut he would eventually develop into more of a superman-type character, often being compared to a golden knight
>and not just a shitty version of Batman?Bruce is more like Oneil's batman which travel around the globe. That was established with Goldwin which his run happened before O'neil Batman.Just let any writer to read>Goldwin run>Any run between Mantlo run and Kaminski one>Busiekbefore writing Tony and anything will be alright
>>154172525The main problems with Iron Man are that he's a billionaire who trades in military hardware and mass surveillance technology, which basically makes him a huge piece of shit, and any time he gets to wield the tiniest bit of government authority he turns into a turbofascist and starts abusing his powers in gross and heinous ways. Plus he's been party to the murder of several planets' worth of living beings. In short he just sucks as a person and as a hero.
>>154172781>The main problems with Iron Man are that he's a billionaire who trades in military hardware and mass surveillance technology, which basically makes him a huge piece of shit,No, predditor.
>>154172781>are that he's a billionaire who trades in military hardwareyou're so smart, you're right we should stop having a military
Hrm.I mean the thing is the techno/military industrial complex is where Tony has lived for decades. More of his stories should run around in that realm, shouldn't they? Tony should be on some Tom Clancy shit.The problem is him being one of the most famous people on Earth kind precludes him being a spy or operate subversively with a cover identity.
>>154173105Anton Shtark worked somehow and he has access to all kinds of equipment. Disguising his identity is no problem.
>>154172525Make a movie outta the comic where he melts in the suit and then becomes the suit and evil and shit.
>>154172525make him the nortubel of marvel
>>154173105>>154173249He should make a fake face and reveal himself as the new Ironman while acting like he Tony stark is crippled from a bad accident in the suit that gave him ptsd.
>>154172525You make him black
>>154173304War machine already exists. Btw does war machine have any good stories or runs?
>>154173284Have a remote controlled armor that poses as a new person down to having a blond human body inside it replacing an injured Tony Stark who people think is just him faking his identity again while he actually operates a different suit that has aesthetics and equipment that obscures it is related to Iron Man.
>>154172781>The main problems with Iron Man are that he's a billionaire who trades in military hardware and mass surveillance technology,I take it this is a nu-ironman thing? With a few exceptions like SHIELD tech and whatever as going on in the 90's series, pre-Civil War Tony was always staunchly anti-militarist, to the point he specifically made enemies over it.
Oh right, in the last run of Iron Man, Tony minted his own cryptocurrency and decided that his company should stop making weapons and instead make its money ethically through online gambling. What a guy.
>>154172525He's really not, the only similarity they share is being rich and having no super powers.Ironman in the mid 70's to early 90's was more of a james bond esque character stopping an evil billionaire from destroying an island, developing a new virus, anything related to his ironman tech, etc.While batman is more of a zorro/sherlock holmes like character a vigilante that has to solve a murder mystery.The issue with modern ironman is that they always have to give him a new status quo or a new overpowered armor that makes everything so much harder to write.>>154172781>>154173400yeah thats nu-ironman for ya
Say one of his children that he fathered on a random one night stand came and stole one of his suits, starts living off the grid in the woods where he hides the suit iron giant style because he feels Tony ruined his life for not being there while his mom is still obsessed with Tony. Later down the line he joins the shiar empire, have space stories for a while and ultimately a war happens between earth and them and he has a confrontation with Tony.
>>154174121>Joins the Shiar empire
>>154174121>children that he fathered on a random one night standGiven that he seemingly doesn't have any of those I suspect he's simply not capable. He might be shooting blanks.
>>154172525Hilarious since Batman is the one who cribbed Tony's whole shtick and became entirely about how many over the top gadgets, suits and technology
>>154173400>I take it this is a nu-ironman thing?Tony hasn't been in the arms manufacturing business since the 70s, and a lot of his stories since were all about atoning for the things his company used to do. What's happened since is that a few high-profile writers in the 2000s like Ellis and Fraction wrote like he'd literally just stopped, with Ellis having his OCs shame Tony for thngs he'd done decades ago, and one of Fraction's early stories being like "Tony Stark isn't going to make weapons anymore" was a sudden change and a big deal.So we have a lot of modern fans who'll never bring themselves to read a Marvel comic from pre-Quesada, and probably never read any Iron Man comic outside of Ellis' 6 issues, so that's their take on who Tony is. Plus people who've not even read that, and are just still bitching about Tony's involvement with SHIELD during Civil War and The Initiative.
>>154174144Maybe he just uses protection, he is a genius after all. If the woman in question is a double-bagger, he bangs them in full Iron Man armor.
>>154174121Too damaging. Just have it be a bastard of Morgan Stark who got rused by the mother calling the father who knocked her up and bailed "Stark".
>>154172525If God came to me and said "you can write any book with any artist and do whatever you want with it with no interference" I'd want to make the book more of a political thriller with cyberpunk trappings like Tom Clancy and Ghost in the Shell had a baby with a mustache. The suit itself would be more mech and a heavy billion-dollar piece of machinery not just something he could whip up in an afternoon. Delve into how Iron Man is essentially how Tony Stark has dealt with his PTSD of going from a pampered rich boy to seeing young adults blown apart and then being held captive by a violent militia. No more Deadpool-level "LOLSORANDOMFACIALHAIRBROS XD" but keep the dry wit of RDJ. Elevator pitch would basically be "An Iron Man movie directed by Mel Gibson starring RDJ with concept art by Shirow Massamune"
If Batman is cooler than Iron Man why has DC constantly tried to have Batman rip off Iron Man and Marvel hasn't tried to have Iron Man ripoff Batman?
>>154172525bring back kurk busiek or return marvel to 1997 timeline.
>>154173791But to back to the topic, the issue with trying to do a modern ironman is that people nowadays really hate billionaires and with enough reason. It's not just blood money like in the 60's it's cannibalism, pedophilia and slave ownership. So trying to make a billionaire the guy good is really hard for these writers that can't separate fiction from reality, hell the most popular version of batman rn is just a batman with a label of "not a millionaire" while still having a bottomless budget for gadgets.>>154174121>>154174623I would probably do what these two said, give back Tony the consultant business angle and give him a kid maybe with Bethany so he would look more human to these nu-writers
>>154174603What is there even to take? Pretty much every flavor of Batman is covered by one of the not!Batman guys Marvel already has.
>>154175404People hate billionaires because they're envious retards who don't know how economics work.
>>154172525More like heroic Lex Luthor who still has all the exact same negative baggage.
>>154172652Despite writing both, O'neil didn't use the characters that get compared to his signature ones in that way.
>>154172525Iron Man was more like a knockoff non-powered Reed Richards back in the early days. He never actually won fights by punching harder, he usually lost most direct confrontations or he lost power really quickly. He usually wins by cobbling together some gadget, or piecing together one from armor bits that stopped the villain. He was more about his technical expertise than being guy in cool power armor that imitates Superman. Also most of his adventures primarily centered around his company. He was not really a superhero that traveled around stopping bad guys. Iron Man was the company security that fought people trying to steal his products, damage shipments, or rivals sending in superpowered mercenaries to conduct some industrial sabotage. Or just people looking to kill/kidnap Tony. He had a perfect niche that sort of fell off in the 00s for some reason. His turning into Batman was more due to writers always making him out to be the financial backer/smart tech guy of the Avengers. Which is largely Batman's role in JLA.
>>154172781That's the difference in society, in the 60s that meant he was the great defender of the free world from the communists and dictators.
>>154173284That's kind of early 90s Iron Man.
>>154172525Superior Ironman was awesome
>>154175404Yet no one hates Batman....
>>154172525He's to complicated now, almost to the point where the only option is to try and start over again.For making him less Batman, try making him the reluctant hero that never tried or wanted to be a superhero.>Makes armor to escape captors.>Uses it to stop terrorist and 5th column organizations that use his products. >Keep using it to fight rival companies that are also selling weapons to cartels and terrorists. >Billionaire and industrialist rivals start funding their own superpowered projects to stop Iron Man>The general public sees heroic Iron Man stopping cartels, terrorists, and supervillains, they cher him as a hero>Tony never wanted to be a superhero, he's just fallen into that world because the public only sees Iron Man stopping bad guys. He was only in it to protect himself and his company. >He nervously maintains the hero public persona while actually working for the best interests of his company. He is still a self serving douche, but is slowly being drawn towards a more noble path, especially when he sees kids and other heroes looking up to him.
>>154176535He became more globalized way back with the formation of the Avengers though, so you've got a kind of schizophrenic character who's handling general threats on the one hand and Stark's ostensible bodyguard (who still occasionally is called on to work internationally in that capacity) on the other.
>>154172525We call the British!
>>154177467lmao maybe back in the 90s when these guys had actual fucking writing chops and weren't just coasting off reputation.
>>154172525Ultimate Tony is the best Tony. Millar’s edginess, in my opinion, was the best thing that happened to the Avengers>HulkI liked that he’s just Banner’s inner self coming out. Horny and wild. It’s a fun take on a tired “I’m horny” formula. Can anyone remind me of anything interesting about the lame 616 Hulk? >ThorThe only misstep, but I liked the hippie take on the character even if it doesn’t make him more interesting>CapsBetter than 616 Cap’s>Iron ManSmarmy piece of shit who’s less worse than the villains. Makes him way more interesting than that dated concept>Pym and JanetI defend scumbag Pym as the best version of the character. Even though the feminist thing is a bit forced, I feel like Miller merged Lang and Pym to make him a fraud. And it also ties into the Hulk’s character arcI like the Ultimates. I never understood the hate; it was fun and kind of well-written. It was Miller relenting on the jingoism of his time with a slight critique of the USA. A neoliberal pro-war attitude, but it worked well for the title. I love the “we’re Nazis and racists for no reason” thing
>>154177948https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bKgWm5TNeBA
>>154177948This. Ultimate X-Men aged like milk but Millar's Ultimates is a perfect time capsule of the time and actually made the Avengers exciting and worth reading>>154178012 is just mad because Millar's work was the first time since Heroes Reborn anyone besides uncs stuck in the Bronze Age gave a shit about the Avengers
The current run is solid
>>154172525He's an alcoholic with a constantly changing superhero design who has cooler gadgets than boomerangs with shit built into them.
>>154174623Oh yeah, that'll bring in readers, revert to a style of writing that was outdated when it came out thirty years ago
>>154178224I like Busiek, but he ends up being too... white. It’s a very American term, and I don’t like it, but I can’t quite put my finger on what’s wrong with it. He’s good, but not Alan Moore-good. And it’s not for lack of edge, it’s just a matter of taste.
>>154172525Go all in on the transhumanism or go full macguyver.
>>154178125Cope
>>154177558The best comic writers today, as bad as the situation is, are Brits.
>>154180093If you're going to go down that road, make sure you find British writers that actually like superhero comics and don't find it beneath them at all, don't want to do a deconstruction or an everything you know is wrong retcon, aren't edgelords, and don't have some weird, borderline perverted obsession with gays or with black people.And that other anon is right, all the 80s-90s British Invasion writers that the fans constantly suck off are all past it by now.
>>154172525Follow the example of the first movie.
>>154182069Trying and failing to be like the movie is one of the problems that reoccur. Don't do that.
