>>154175527
It's actually more like Israel's enemies Islamic by law countries instead of like israel.

>>154175527
Man I loved this era. It was great to see mutants winning for once.

>>154175613
dude you're not supposed to be self inserting

>>154175613
They won by being the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

>>154175649
I am. I self insert as a mutant.

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>>154175613
>to see mutants winning

>>154175527
X-Men were justified considering all the anti-mutant persecution they dealt with in the years leading up to Krakoa.

A lot of the people who have issues with the Krakoa era always ignore all the crap the X-Men dealt with that led up to it or pretend that the persecution was justified/ not a big deal.

>>154176477
And a lot of the people who simped for Krakoa had to ignore all the bullshit the X-men had done up to that point, including allying with all of their foes, all the shit involved in them trying to kill the Inhumans, the Phoenix Five bullshit, everything.

Takes two to tango there, partner. And before you claim I'm going to ignore all the crap the X-men dealt with, I'm not. I'm of the opinion the X-men stories should never have been that fixated on misery porn so long in the first place that a mutant sex island fascist state is somehow seen as a better alternative. Fuck that noise.

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>>154175527
>Another Krakoa seethe thread
>Just as X-Men United has silently been canceled and demoted to a 10-issue series
Oh no no no no no Brevoort...

>Bendis-men
>Lemire on a team book
>Soule
>Bunn getting fucked by editorial while he just wanted to do Magneto as a leader of the x-men
>Original 5 time-displaced and one turned gay
Krakoa was an horrible idea that started interesting(sometime even good) and became shittier and shittier , but at least was better than the 5-6 previous years and brevoort

>>154175527
When the hate for x-men started. I had been on /co/ since 2008, and from 2008 to 2012-2015 x-men weren't hated.
Is this a disney shill campaign? Does this happen in other comicbook forums?

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>>154175527
Does it mean that Krakoa the greatest ally of the USA?

>>154175527
Nice try Mr goldsteinberg, but the x men aren’t bombing and raping children

>>154176611
People kind of got tired of the X-men when they kept getting shoved into events that made them the bad guy. Not cause people liked them as bad guys, but because it always fell back to "but we're going to go extinct!" It's like how they keep reusing Tony Stark as the head of a very controlling or antagonistic faction, people just got really tired of seeing Ironman as the "bad guy" when he had no business being that way.

Couple that with how the fandom basically became filled with self-inserters who threw fits at the X-men being screwed over, and you've got a recipe for people hating the X-men for shit they shouldn't have ever been involved in the first place.

>>154176611
X-Men in general or just Krakoa era? Other forums don't have issues with the X-Men. Opinions on Krakoa are mixed, but lean more neutral compared to some of the discussion on /co/.

>>154176611
>2012-2015 x-men
It was hated, that's why we laugh and made memes of "you are gay".
2008-2012 has some good comics like xforce and fraction run.

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>>154176477
>A lot of the people who have issues with the Krakoa era always ignore all the crap the X-Men dealt with that led up to it or pretend that the persecution was justified/ not a big deal.

You mean the crap the writer intentionally put them through so they could justify their stupid event? I don't think people like you really understand what people are complaining about it. It's not just the notion of Krakoa. It's everything leading up to it as well. It's the same thing with that Hickman Secret Wars were the Illuminati were blowing up universes. Yes you gave them a justification but that's part of the problem. You intentionally created a series of events to justify something people didn't like.

>>154175527
Krakoafags are unironica autistic gay dudes and trannies who use X-Men as a stad-in for their IRL beliefs so a hedonistic sex island that is a socialisic hippie commune utopia owning all he bigots is a power fantasy for them.

>>154176555
>it's real
LOOOOOL
Brevoort's era just keeps flopping

>>154176477
>Ignore all the crap
I mean I already don't read X-Men comics so...

>>154176477
>X-Men were justified considering all the anti-mutant persecution
the anti mutant persecution was justified with all the crap Magento and his ilk pulled, maybe he should have quit picking fights with the whole world

>>154175527
Where is the extremely anti-mutant propaganda? They get upset when it’s called anti-mutant instead of anti-Krakoa, even though the UN recognizes Krakoa’s right to exist. The accusations against this state are clearly anti-mutant in nature and design, and are based directly on debunked anti-mutant conspiracy theories.

>>154177734
>massacring innocent civilians is okay because Magneto exists
Incredibly jewish post

>>154177839
That has nothing to do with what the guy posted in fact it was the opposite except he mentioned nothing about Magneto being Jewish,

>>154176899
>comics written 20+ years before Krakoa were made to justify Krakoa
Dumb ESL. This is the comic board, for discussing comics. Since you haven’t read comics, you should fuck off.

>>154177866
No, that is the ‘anti-mutant persecution’ in question, armed militias massacring innocent mutant civilians. They mention it several times in Krakoa itself, so for this comic thread, not knowing that makes it pretty clear you haven’t actually read any comics, and are just crying that liberals were enjoying something

>>154177914
As opposed to the armed militias of mutants who also massacre innocent civilians, normie and mutant alike, in their goal of mutant supremacy?

>>154177936
When that happens mutant leaders don’t say “well maybe they had a point, humans DO deserve to die”, unlike the reverse, where no one in positions of powers cared about innocent mutant deaths. Who are you even talking about, the Marauders or the Upstarts?

>>154178015
I hope they avoid problems like that in the MCU where they sort of forget who supposed to be heroes if it's a mutant movie or non-mutant movie deciding which one is the asshole at any given time but sometimes the General superhero community does help out the mutants.Like when Iron Man married Emma Frost

>>154178015
The Brotherhood, the Marauders, the Acolytes, the Hellfire Club and the Hellions, aka way too many people who the X-men now called their friends. The only people I sympathized with are the Morlocks, and mostly despite being a creepy cult they just wanted to be left alone.

>When that happens mutant leaders don’t say “well maybe they had a point, humans DO deserve to die”
No, they just go "Well, maybe mutants ARE superior to those mean old stinky humans, and we were right to hole up and tell all our friends to pound sand"

>>154178128
People repeatedly try to murder them and their children, why shouldn’t they hole up away from the world?

>>154177875
Shit wasn't as bad as it was 20+ years ago. They've been doing nothing but increase the level of mutant hate so mutants could justify hating them back. 20+ years ago the mutants would still try and consider themselves human. You're an idiot.

>>154178128
I just came up with a new superhero idea for a basic series protagonist. If he becomes popular, he might get more books, but he starts off relatively powerful in Marvel 616. He’s a bit of a fallen type and gets approved to join a new government superhero team—or the government pushes an existing team to let him in. The twist is that he has one major character flaw: despite never a mutant before gaining his powers, he’s a rabid mutant racist, likely due to where he grew up and his dad blaming all his problems on mutants. Early flashbacks suggest his dad had a legitimate grievance, like losing work to mutants, but as the series goes on, we learn those memories are biased and false—there were never any mutants in their hometown, and he just wasn’t qualified. The team frequently faces problems involving mutants, sometimes ones who don’t even care about their mutant status, and they have to hold back this rookie, who’s probably more powerful than most of them but completely untrained and clueless about handling disagreement or overcoming his anti-mutant prejudice. But by the end even though he dealt with some bad mutants he also dealt with good mutants dealing with them and he realized he needs to not judge someone based on mutant not mutant he just needs to judge them based on who they actually are.

>>154178190
Cause Magneto and his cronies not only kept trying to murder everyone and THEIR children so he can rule over the rubble, but so do a bunch of evil bastards that keep screaming they're homo superior, that they represent all mutants everywhere, and that their explicit goal is to replace everyone else through rampant murder and enslavement.

Doing a "well, he started it!" argument when it comes to the X-men makes nobody look good. The fact that the writers ever got caught up in that shit was a terrible idea from day one that they just keep doubling down on, and makes the fact that they decided to treat "mutant" as some kind of objectively separate race rather than just a unifying title between outcasts all the more shameful. Cause it used to be that being one of the X-men was a choice, not a life sentence to be stuck with a bunch of genetics-obsessed pricks and their more genocidal "friends".

>>154178190
>why shouldn’t they hole up away from the world?
Most did try and lay low until some faggots in costumes showed up to drag them into a race war.

>>154178287
I would like to see a children's cartoon superhero school where the X-Men in arrangement with shield and the Avengers Turn the Xavier Institute into a training school for all juvenile superheroes alongside mutants there are definitely be issues at first but I would like to see that. And we will see but we also see well-meaning people having Prejudice from The Avengers to the X-Men to Shield about making it work.I saw in a Spider-Man comic the lizard son wanted to go to the X-Men School.

>>154178287
You’re talking about 60 year old Magneto comics? If you hate the Brotherhood so much, the US government HIRED them. Why shouldn’t the X-Men forgive them too?

>>154178458
>Why shouldn’t the X-Men forgive them too?
Because they're the walking embodiment of everything they try to fight against and aligning themselves with them only makes their public image suffer. You cannot whine that people fear you when you sit next to the one that caused the fear in the first place.

>>154178458
>You’re talking about 60 year old Magneto comics?
He only ever officially stopped being a villain in 2009, and he's never officially repented of his villainy. The last time he tried, Storm outright told him he was a gud boi who dindu nuffin. And even then, so many X-men villains explicitly said they were following in his footsteps and beliefs, yet they still remain friends with them. And in an inconsistent fashion too. They outright kicked the Strucker Twins off Mutant Sex Island for being nazis despite the fact that they kept Gorgon around, who WAS and STILL IS a nazi himself.
>If you hate the Brotherhood so much, the US government HIRED them.
In order to betray them.
>Why shouldn’t the X-Men forgive them too?
Cause they're mutant supremacists that want to take over the world and would put the jackboot to the X-men if they could. Try to keep up.

>>154176945
You self insert x-men because you're a tranny faggot, I self insert x-men because I'm a racial supremacist. We are not the same.

>>154178458
its just this one retard trying to retcon mutant hate as a result of magneto when every single mutant hate group states their view of the conflict as intrinsic going back to the very beginning of comics.

>>154179196
There was no mutant hate or even knowledge of mutants before magneto started his racist genocidal campaign against humanity.

The mutants were all seen as random super powered humans just like the ff and spiderman.
Only when Magneto got on his little soapbox and start screaming about how superior they were and murdering millions did it become a thing.

Many people who hated super beings or just wanted power used this retards supremacist screed and fear of mutants and mutancy to empower and enrich themselves.

He is directly responsible for the current hatred of mutants.

>>154175527
I started reading X-Men as a teen in the 80s and believed in the dream as Claremont had Xavier preach it. By the time of Krakoa I was ready to reopen Auschwitz.

>>154179260
The comics don't support your headcannon so I don't give a shit about your arguments. The sons of humanity, the U-men, the purifiers, orchis aren't trying to kill magneto. By your idiot logic humans would be trying to kill all capes because of dr doom.

>>154179308
Which comic story are you referring too?
I'm curious.

>>154179260
>or even knowledge of mutants
"Moon people"

>>154179308
Analogy is a method of illustration not a form of proof. I promise you will be smarter once you learn to stop arguing that way.

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>>154179308
>The comics don't support your headcannon so I don't give a shit about your arguments.
>I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and screaming until you shut up
Pic related. Magneto's a fucking bastard, and made things infinitely worse for "homo superior" everywhere. It's fact. And no amount of "the comics don't support your headcanon" will revoke that when this shit comes directly from the comics.

Also
>bringing up mutant hate groups as though they're the only haters of metahumans that exist
For the record, plenty of people hate and try to kill superheroes all the time. Spider-Man and the Hulk get daily shit on by the press every second they exist, with tons of people trying to kill them too. Superhumans besides the X-men get trafficked all the time to make mutant growth hormone or brainwashed into evil minions or whatever horrible thing they can be exploited for. The US built concentration camps for aliens during Kree/Skrull wars. Atlanteans repeatedly get shit on due to Namor's actions. The Friends of Humanity outright pivoted from openly hating on mutants to hating on symbiotes due to politics. The Inhumans moved to the moon for a long chunk of time out of fear of being shit on by the world. People hate robots so much that there was an activist group trying to break up Vision and Wanda because they hated the ROBOT more than the MUTANT. Hell, a lot of people in cosmic space openly shit on the planet Earth because they're sick of superheroes and supervillains making their lives more miserable.

Mutants aren't special when it comes to how much the world hates them. They just think they do, and the writers keep trying to pretend that was a thing.

Also
>By your idiot logic humans would be trying to kill all capes because of dr doom.
Literally the premise of Civil War is the entire US deciding to basically shit all over the constitution because they were so pissed at the New Warriors they took it out on all superhumans, not just the superheroes.

>>154179260
>>154179466
> I don’t read comics, I get all my information from 4chan greentexts
You’re an idiot. God Loves, Man Kills proves you wrong. Why are you debating comics without having read one in your life?

>>154179561
Please, elaborate on how one religious fanatic who the cops shoot to protect the life of a mutant on national television somehow disproves that most of the public's knowledge of what mutants are comes directly from Magneto screaming at the top of his lungs "HOMO SUPERIOR" after trying to attack Cape Canaveral. Especially after God Loves, Man Kills came out 9 years later.

Idiot. Next you're going to make the claim that no humans ever tried to help the X-men or were ever sympathetic to the mutants either.

>>154179353
The inhumans.

>>154179561
Took you a while to speed google a comic story didn't you? That has fucking NOTHING to do with ANYTHING I posted. It does not prove anything.

>>154175527

>build Super Israel

They didn’t steal the land from anyone!
They let non mutants have citizenship!
Hickman was exploring the consequences and necessary evils of nation building!
I’m posting in a troll thread!

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>>154179592
Because comic book have this thing called “retroactive continuity” where events can take place before X-Men #1 even though they were published after. Stryker’s son being born a mutant, and reading Professor X’s published papers were enough for him to begin his crusade, BEFORE Magneto did everything. ONE cop shot him, it clearly wasn’t a unilateral opinion shared by the police that he was bad, and his crusade received incredibly positive coverage in-universe. I repeat; why are you discussing comics without having read them?

>>154179638
>They let non mutants have citizenship!
Still kicked Deadpool out once they stopped being able to exploit him for X-Force.
Also exiled Danger for the crime of being a robot.

>>154179614
> I don’t read comics? Nuh-uh, YOU don’t !!!
Try again

>>154179638
>They let non mutants have citizenship!
and Isreal lets non jews have citizenship so what the fuck is your point

>>154179677
Oh well shit. This ONE guy hating mutants means the entire world hates mutants!
This one bible thumper 80's parody of televangelists means the entire world hates mutants and that they were building steampunk and ether powered sentinels to kill the mutant menace back in the 1800s!
The fuck out of here midwit.

>>154179661
>I repeat; why are you discussing comics without having read them?
I ask the same of you. Like, there's an obvious gimme in how Bolivar Trask decided to make anti-mutant robots due to reading too many scifi stories rather than pointing to Magneto's antics, but you aren't taking it.

Also, your statement literally disproves nor proves anything. Stryker's crusade still happens only AFTER mutants become known in the cultural zeitgeist and become a popular target to hate on, and they still only came to knowledge in the cultural zeitgeist because Magneto fucking put them there by attacking a military base and declaring himself the leader of a demographic focused on wiping out humanity despite neither aspect being true.

And this is all sidestepping that God Loves, Man Kills wasn't even meant to be a canon storyline until much later down the road, so who the fuck cares about retroactive continuity? If that's the case, why are you acting like humans have always hated mutants rather than it being a forced reaction by Sublime? Cause he's still canon and he is the sole reason why humans even feel fear towards mutants of their own species, you know.

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>>154179561
Also, you've yet to refute all of the proof that superhumans have always been getting shit by humanity and that mutants aren't special in that regard by any means

>>154179731
I never said that. Stryker had an entire crusade behind him, including a federal agent who was willing to commit treason and sell out the X-Men. He wasn’t a lone actor, people were RECEPTIVE to his message. You are the one who takes 4chan shitposts as fact.
>>154179737
No one’s talking about Trask, because yes, he created the sentinels in response to a threat, then died to stop them from taking over the world.

>>154179638
Krakoa wasn't israel because jews are a bunch of larpers. Their dead civilization isn't the vital future of anything except drugs and online pornography. Israel, the jewish reservation. Mutants have greatness, power, destiny within their blood. Magneto was always right, they don't have to justify their actions to their inferiors, nor beg for their existence as a groveling model minority. Krakoa was undone by weakness and literal traitors within it, beast, wolverine, charles, forge, sinister, shaw, jean, storm, even magneto himself. Worse they learned nothing from it, after krakoa the us government is running around kidnapping and torturing random mutants and the x-men just let it go on under their nose for 2 years despite knowing all about it because they're too weak and disorganized now...but muh muh magneto 30 years ago!

>>154179792
the only thing civil war is proof of is that Millar is a shitty writer. But yes, most mutant haters aren’t going to make a distinction, there are older x-men comics that explicitly lay that out, and I can agree that the x-men alienating themselves from other superheroes isn’t an interesting direction

>>154176477
>>154177734
The same fucking arguments over and over and obver

>>154177914
>>154177936
>>154178015
You faggots are literally incapable of separating reality from fantasy at least make out of universe arguments for once

>>154179638
It's like, you know, about who's evil talking about using evil who are refugees from the Palestinian, so-called refugees who chose to leave for Israel to be invaded. Do you never stop making babies even 50 years after the UN spin taking care of them to today Like baby factories.

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>>154179817
If you'd like a non-Millar example, here's that time the Avengers were picketed by NYC for going up against...Freedom Force. Aka the time the public sided with the mutants working with the government over the established superheroes. And I could probably find numerous other times they were picketed for retarded reasons, like the time they had both a pro-diversity protest going off RIGHT NEXT TO an anti-mutant protest at their front door.

For as much shit as the X-men get and don't deserve, the Avengers get the people on their ass a fucking LOT.

>>154178284
Oh woooooow another mutant hating mutant what an original idea that nobody in an X-thread have ever made before. No seriously I shit on these threads for being the same shit every time but goddamn you guys don't even make it hard for me, this kind of character is the cheapest fucking dogshit. Only other lamer character you guys make is the guy who gets on a soap box to chew out the X-men for making things worse for mutants. Fucking get new material

>>154179853
Fuck off, retard

>>154179731
there was already a government agency hunting mutants in 1918 or whatever in uncanny x-men, so yeah you're wrong again.

>>154179885
You’re right. I think the often reposted Emma Frost lines about how terrible the Avengers were are pretty bad. At least Hickman tried to make Cyclops a little more friendly to non-muggas

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>>154175527
>Magneto only became a villain because his CIA handlers tried to kill him, during the time he was hunting Nazis for Israel
Thoughts? Opinions?

>>154179793
>I never said that. Stryker had an entire crusade behind him, including a federal agent who was willing to commit treason and sell out the X-Men. He wasn’t a lone actor, people were RECEPTIVE to his message. You are the one who takes 4chan shitposts as fact.

That has fucking nothing to do with my point on any level. I think you know that and are trying to slide the argument to something else because you know that you are totally wrong.

>>154179930
So? A group is not the entire world fearing and hating mutants.


You people want to know the biggest reason people hate mutants? Claremont did it best and Bendis expanded upon it with probably the greatest story he's ever written. The time a mutant killed an entire town by accident.

The people of the world fear superbeings but mutants are different. Anyone can be a mutant. Anyone can wake up one day as a horroifying monstrosity or their child can be born as a pile of eyeballs. It's the horror of the unknown and the existential threat of being replaced and the world changing forever. It's a child or a strange person being given godhood and destroying everything around them.
It's fear.
And many people truly believed they were evil or a menace. Many people saw an opportunity and weaponized that fear for power and money.

Magneto came along and poisoned the well. Condemning everyone on earth to a terror a fear. That one day someone close to you. Maybe even you will become a monster or be born one.
THAT is the terror of mutants. And THAT is what Magneto brought to mankind with his infernal shortsighted arrogant crusade.

>>154179943
I'd like to hope one day that X-men fans will at least publicly acknowledge that the entire marvel universe is terrible, and not just to mutants. Cause even as much as I hated the Krakoa storylines and how the X-men became far more isolationist when their big thing was trying to save everyone and not just mutants, what I hated more was the enforced misery porn and attempting to drill in the idea that the X-men are going to be eternally alone in their misery and suffering and otherness.

Like, fuck that noise. Half the reason I found the X-men cool beyond their powers and outfits was that even with people regularly shitting on them for stupid reasons, they let their actions speak for them rather than just their rhetoric. To the point that they had fans in the public who were willing to stand up to the bigots that occasionally dotted the storylines. And the fact that the writers and fandom have gone 180 on that makes me feel rather sad. We'll never get the day where Cyclops refuses to just give up on humanity just because fanatics like Stryker exist, and that equality and a respect for basic human decency is always something worth fighting for.

>>154177914
>innocent mutant civilians.
"Mutant civilians" should never have been a thing in the first place, and they literally only exist to get killed and justify an X-Men chimpout. Stop wanting this to be a thing. Stop wanting things to be awful.

>>154179793
nta but I notice how you refused to address the point about Sublime

>>154180064
Cyclops had his character reverted, he was back to acting like that even in krakoa. He certainly is in mckay's now.

>>154180220
What point about Sublime? Mentioning him at all discredits the idea that Magneto was responsible for mutant hate.

>>154180030
Anon, everyone knows Hitler lived a long life, marrried had children and died in south america.
If Magneto was Nazi hunting down there then he was doing a damned bad job.

>>154180389
>Anon, everyone knows Hitler lived a long life, marrried had children and died in south america.
He didn’t

>>154180427
The CIA released the info a while back.

>>154180452
Then post them.

>>154180312
yeah but it always discredits the X-men were justified because persecution against mutants since humans are just victims of his mind control and they just need to save humanity from him then

>>154180389
Marvel Hitler was murdered by the Human Torch and transferred his consciousness into subsequent clone bodies. He could probably beat Magneto in a fight

>>154180486
I don't have them.
Don't tend to save anything like that and google is absolutely worthless for searching anything that goes against mainstream narratives or...anything of real worth now.

X-Men hasn't been good since the 90s

>>154180046
Forget it, anon. You can't reason with these people. Marvel themselves are stuck in some kind of insane doublethink where X-Men #1 in 1963 is hard canon where Magneto's first attack is the moment the world learns mutants exist, but they simultaneously keep trying to retcon in earlier stories about mutants being a known thing who were being persecuted so their beloved Magneto can be made to look justified in his terrorism. You're arguing against psychopaths simping for a murderous, genocidal villain, and embracing an incoherent rewriting of history that doesn't even make any sense, just to try and pretend that villain is ackshually the real hero all along and the fantasy daddy they wish they had.

>>154180657
incredibly low odds you aren’t replying to yourself

>>154179943
It also doesn't work the whole where were you for Genosha shit when they were current dealing with Kang the conqueror ruling the entire world after utterly destroying Washington with countless deaths at around the same time which should be the actual event brought up more in Marvel's setting honestly.

>>154180705
Incredibly high odds you're butthurt no one is falling for le magneto is right bullshit.

>>154179893
Well if X-Men is regurgitating the same story and thematic beats for 40 years then I don't see why anons shouldn't just be source material accurate.

>>154175527
Jews are evil. Theyre not supposed to be the good guys. Thats why the krakoa era worked so well.

>>154180768
Remember when Magneto did a world wild EMP that at minimum would've caused the deaths of thousands of innocent people?

>>154180768
But I never said that. You have just acknowledged that Marvel have several stories proving that he isn’t the first mutant to be known to the public, and I have been arguing that those stories mean that it cannot be the case.

>>154180810
Who are the first mutants known to the public then?

>>154180871
Namor or Toro

>>154180810
No stupid I haven't.
I asked you to list stories and you brought up a famous xmen story that has nothing to do with it to prove you read comics rather then disprove me.

>>154181079
Toro WASNT known as a mutant casually. He was retconned into being a mutant later and I even remember a story where he feared being hated or singled out for being a mutant. Which really didn't make any sense, since no one knew the source of the powers of most superbeings in the universe.
Nor was mutant hate even a thing back when he was active as the human torch's sidekick.

Namor is being treated as a real extension of the xmen and seen as a mutant only recently and at most was a interesting easter egg in other stories.

>>154181190
in god loves man kills, professor X writes academic papers on the idea of mutants, which motivate Stryker, along with his son being one, years before Magneto did anything.

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>>154179297
Remember

>>154181220
What does that have to do with anything.
I'm curious.
A single academic paper and a single group treating mutants as a menace?
That's it?
That's your big gotcha?

>>154180737
It's really galling that whenever someone DOES try to help a mutant problem it's met with the mutants throwing a shit fit. mutants solve mutant problems till it explodes in their faces.

>>154180770
Brutal

>>154179260
>There was no mutant hate or even knowledge of mutants before magneto started his racist genocidal campaign against humanity.
>>154181276
Stryker learned about mutants, hated them enough to kill his own son, and began gathering like-minded allies 30 years before the events of the comic, decadences before Magneto began his career.

>>154179893
>Oh woooooow another mutant hating mutant what an original idea that nobody in an X-thread have ever made before.
No is NOT that whatsoever.You just misread it

>>154181276
>That's your big gotcha?
His big gotcha that he won't shut up about is a story that was originally meant to be non-canon in the first place, and remained so for around 20 years, so pointing to it as some sort of definitive statement on Marvel continuity is disingenuous at best.

>>154181318
It sucks since honestly the X-Men do have some cool characters but I just can't stand the storyline and especially the attitude they have with the rest of the universe. It's why whenever they are in the big Marvel games they are at their most enjoyable since they aren't shit stirring or anything. Like I especially can't stand the character assassination to prop up the mutant issue like infamously done against Captain America or how it feels like in X-Men that becomes most characters only priority and makes them much less interesting then they used to be. Characters like Firestar, Whirlwind and Puff Adder are fun to me in that being a mutant isn't really a priority for them which is a character attitude that would be interesting if delved into and worth exploring more for other mutant characters since it make an interesting characterisation point for mutants who do make it such a part of their self identity seeing others who don't care they are mutants.....though suppose that also led to Kitty Pryde under Bendis losing her shit over Remender making Havok want to be a person first before a mutant.

>>154176555
Cuckoa sucked

>>154178458
>You’re talking about 60 year old Magneto comics?
Magneto was herding flatscans into ovens during Planet X. He sat in an asteroid with nukes pointed at Earth and multiple times in the '90s fucked up the Earth with EMPs. Just before Morrison took over, Magneto had taken over Genosha and was building an army to go to war with humans. It wasn't until Utopia at the end of the 2000s that they gave up and just made him a good guy for no real reason.

>>154184130
>for no real reason.
bullshit you know why if you fucking read it which it probably didn't.

>>154184388
was it because it wasn't Mag that blew up New York but Xorn's brother?

>>154184388
Because Magneto was popular.

>>154185424
And he was popular when he was a villain through all of those stories that anon mentioned. He just sucks whenever he's not a villain, and the X-Men suck whenever they take him and other villains in, and by now we're in a state where a lot of you people can't imagine the group without several villains in it.

>>154175527
That’s Hickman’s shitty writing for you

>>154178015
>When that happens mutant leaders don’t say “well maybe they had a point, humans DO deserve to die”,
As shown in Krakoa era, what they say instead is "you have no authority to judge Sabertooth for murder raping your people, we are taking him to judge him ourselves"

>>154186217
that's honestly kind of worse

>>154175527
My takeaway from Krakoa was that the Dominions genuinely are the most intelligent forms of life in Marvel, simply because they choose to avoid interacting with the endless cycle of suffering that is the Marvel multiverse.

>>154175527
My only complaint was if they were just going to throw Sabertooth into forever jail once they got him in Krakoa because he was a blatant and outrageous psycho why did they feel the need to include him in the Diplomatic Immunity deal.
Like I know its probably to establish that Mutants handle mutant matters style of self determination surely throwing Sabertooth of all people to the wolves as it were would be a reasonable political compromise instead of going 'hey this blatant spree killer superhuman mutant that is probably wanted in every country of the planet? Diplomatic immunity" like that's just bad optics don't you think?

>>154186389
You are talking about people who were babbling about having more evolved government than humans when it was just basic aristocracy of their strongest without any consideration for actual experience in running state.

It was pure hubris. I can understand the likes of the Apocalypse or Selene going for it, because they are power hungry egomaniacs. But even Magneto should be able to see the downsides of such approach. And the X-Men? They were reduced to a frat house getting a kick from calling shots on global scale.

>>154186441
Which is funny because they only had that island for four years. Which taking into how marvel’s timeline tends to compress events means that eventually, they’ll only have been on that island for a few months at best. So they talked all that mad shit and pissed off all their old friends for no real gain.

>>154175527
I literally dipped out right when this happened. What happened during the Krakoa era? I only have a vague idea that the X-Men had the cure for cancer or some shit and that gives them immunity?

>>154187615
Somehow too much and not enough. But TL;DR they allied with all their former villains to form an oligarchy, acted super shocked when several of those villains betrayed them, the oligarchy broke up, they spent like a couple months on the run, blew up a bunch of robots and a Not-Skynet!Sinister, and they just kind of reverted back to pre-Krakoa's status quo of a bunch of teams scattered about the landscape while humans hate them again.

Most of the details about Krakoa are super frontloaded at the beginning, but end up not mattering once the storyline is over.

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>>154187709
Have any of the X-Men that were resurrected been revealed to actually be plant clones or Skrulls yet?

>>154187709
>Most of the details about Krakoa are super frontloaded at the beginning, but end up not mattering once the storyline is over.
That's just comics in general

>>154189428
No, cause that would have been an interesting twist. They outright changed up the rules to how it works several times just to kill off anyone's attempts to claim the resurrections were flawed in any way. Though when they're using the resurrection protocol shit to transfer X-men from the 2099 universe over to the mainline, it was kind of skubbed from the start.

>>154189490
Can't deny that, but it's still very true in this case. Most of the Krakoa era kind of just spun its wheels after Hickman left, and they kind of just wrapped everything up super hastily just to get everyone off mutant sex island.

>>154180528
Wasn't the current canon that was killed by Winter soldier(or deadpool and cable but not gonna count Duggan)

>>154175571
We all could be better without bout

>>154176516
>the Phoenix Five bullshit
Ah yeah, I remember how they decided to create an utopia for all humans and the Avengers still decided to keep poking and looking for a fight. No wonder they decided to just create mutant Israel.

>>154181079
Namor wasn't aware to be a mutant untill Magneto told him he was in a old FF issue.

>>154181557
>Whirlwind
I just read for the first time the issue where Whirlwind finally understand he was a mutant all along. It was a fight against Quicksilver in Avengers.

>"Your powers are similar to mine. You must be a mutant as well"
>"Wait, I'm a mutant?! Ok, whatever"

It's funny that today Whirlwind is still a mutant and Quicksilver not

>>154189863
No they didn't. They were giving legs to whales and killing them, fusing the tectonic plates together, and imprisoning their own people on a giant glass citadel. How the fuck do you not remember any of that?

>>154191095
It's even funnier since Whirlwind is the most I absolutely give no shit about mutants or the mutant identity stuff ever since his priorities in life are Janet Van Dyne should love me and I want money.

>>154175527
X-men fans don't like this. The many faggots that have infected all media like stuff like this and we can't get rid of them.

>>154176555
This era being bad doesn't make Krakoa good.

>>154176782
Other forums are full of people who love all the gay shit and they won't come here ever.

>>154194383
Don't try to reason with X-fags. You have to be an unreasonable person to like this shit franchise in the first place.

>>154196907
Except I'm in >>154194372, I love X-Men in the 80s and 90s and hate shit like Krakoa. Don't lump all of us into this cancer of a timeline.

Does anyone have the Kang copypasta about mutants handy? I always thought it funny.

>>154175527
This was their villain era but people are too stupid to understand that

>>154186175
No he is a brilliant writer! Look at the set up in issue 1 which will undoubtedly have great pay off! Look at the charts! Look at the charts!

>>154186441
>But even Magneto should be able to see the downsides of such approach.
House of M was Magneo getting what he wanted, being horrified by it and killing Pietro for bringing it about. House of M is also the most damaging Marvel story of the 2000s and fundamentally ruined the X-Men but still.

>>154189533
The entire "they're not clones" argument fell apart when they resurrected X-23 but it turns out that the real X-23 was alive so the resurrected X-23 was obviously a clone even though resurrection is NOT, I repeat NOT, cloning (even though it is) and then the real X-23 died anyway so now there's a clone of X-23 running around in the books who everyone treats as if she's the real X-23 because Cuckoan resurrections WERE. NOT. CLONES.

>>154197277
People do understand, that's the problem. The X-Men can't come back from a "villain era", they fucking nuked any chance of progress for the sake of short term gratification.

>>154194383
No you don't get it, this era is full of 90s nostalgia(?) and it's based that it's shit because that somehow proves Krakoa was good(?)

>>154197277
Half of the X-Men have been in a villain era since Schism, Krakoa is just when they all went for it

>>154197508
>this era is full of 90s nostalgia
Anyone who says this is genuinely retarded. Current X-Men is fucking Schism era nostalgia.

>>154192627
All respectable priorities

>>154189863
>I'm sure this cosmic being of fire and death that's destroyed ZILLIONS of people just wants to be friend. We should do nothing to assuage the fears of anyone else because it's about mutants.

>>154176516
>. I'm of the opinion the X-men stories should never have been that fixated on misery porn so long in the first place that a mutant sex island fascist state is somehow seen as a better alternative.
This is really the biggest problem with the X-books. House of M really derailed shit and fucked the books long term.
Lots of cool books came out after it and there was shit I really loved, but goddamn it really spiked the persecution misery porn.
Its like relaunching books for a sales boost. It was a good idea on a micro level in that moment at the start, but the ramifications and consequences of it was fucking horrible.

>>154197249
It's bizarrely in-character despite how he's only ever interacted with X-Men who've been on the Avengers at the time like in the recent Mackay run or Remenders run with the weird Havok/Wasp pairing and his only other bits of X-history involve Apocalypse a major figure in his backstory when he was Rama-tut.

We're lesbian mutants forcibly impregnated to make more mutants?

>>154186389
Sabretooth would have just escaped anyway, dumbass complaint. He escaped from magic mutant jail. Killing him doesn't even work.

>>154200296

Dark Phoenix happened because Mastermind was fucking with Jean's head. It's not inherently destructive. Rachel was the host for a while without any planets being destroyed.

>>154187709
>acted super shocked when several of those villains betrayed them
They were whatever the complete opposite of shocked is. The villains they could handle, people they trusted like moira, colossus, beast, wolverine, forge, sage were the problem. If you really want to simplify it down helping humanity with the krakoa medicine was the root of their downfall.

>>154189533
>mutant sex island.
krakoa was 200,000 people, nightcrawlers ultra-liberal faggotry cult of like 50 teenagers hardly applies to summarize it.

>>154197426
X-23 is a clone, she was always a clone. She started as a clone. There is no "real" x-23.

>>154175527
Hickman obviously was not trying to portray them as good guys, but the comic sold so well and the other writers so misunderstood it, that the pushed Hickman off and made it some kind of metaphor for LGBTABC+- "liberation" that was completely unironic.

>>154200516
For all people (wrongly) hate Morrisons run, it was exactly where the franchise needed to go and HoM ruined it. They were actually making slow but steady progress on Mutant acceptance, and were introducing villains who weren't the same three X-Men villain concepts of "Mutant Supremacist", "KKK with laser guns" and "Racist Robots".

>>154200928
That's dumb. Next you're gonna say there's no "real" Ben Reilly or Kaine

>>154200896
You know shouldn't Nightcrawler have been permanently excommunicated for trying to start his own religion? That's like the number one no-no in Catholicism.

>>154200634
They were resurrecting every mutant who ever died, thanks to Wanda, but if they had to, they could have made soulless, mindless clones of the lesbians to serve as baby factories
>>154200811
Galactus said the Phoenix was fueled by unborn life, and I trust him more than any flatscan OR mugga

>>154201341
Except there are no pipelines, israel doesn't control the canal, and it doesn't control the middle east. Israel is a us puppet state, and that's it. Iran got what it deserved. Beast is a rogue asset that caused more trouble than he's worth, Beast is your israel.

>>154201154
Agreed.
Sometimes I find myself wondering what the X-books would look like today had we stayed on the course Morrison began. The way the glorification of celebrities has fallen. It would be interesting to see how that would have affected the X-Men, since part of Morrison's thesis was X-Men as celebrities.

>>154201369
all of this so Bibi cannot be trialed for corruption, kinda insane he outjews the jews

>>154201642
>X-Men as celebrities.
There's a funny gag in there somewhere about them kicking Cyclops off the team because the whole "Abandon your pregnant wife for your high-school ex" thing goes viral and makes Scott bad for the brand.

>>154201620
Beast was a complete traitor who literally walked off with their entire intelligence infrastructure right before a war he failed to see coming. You're babbling about jews isn't even worth responding to since you offered no argument on the points.

>>154201743
I can only imagine the scandal the whole Betsy/Kwannon shit would cause.

>>154201409
>Israel is a us puppet state, and that's it
Which is why a massive chunk of US politicians across the aisle are funded by aipac? Who then proceed to make laws that benefit only Isreal, dump billions of dollars into Isreal, and actively serve as Isreal's PR team at every conceivable moment?

If anything it's the other way around, Isreal is holding the US hosage.

>>154201832
>JFK starts questioning their nuclear program
>gets murked

>>154201832
It's more that the US and Israeli ruling classes are one and the same. Not in some "muh jews" way, but in that, as Israel is an economic and political appendage of the US, their ruling classes are all intermarried and share business interests and whatnot. The reason the US ruling class (like say the Bidens and Clintons and Trumps) is so fanatical about Israel is because to them it is just as much core American territory as North Dakota. You can even see it in how downright confused and flustered they are when they see how Americans have become so anti-israeli, they've lived in their bubble so long they can't comprehend that the rest of America does not view Israel as the 51st state like they do.

>>154202039
>The reason the US ruling class (like say the Bidens and Clintons and Trumps) is so fanatical about Israel is because to them it is just as much core American territory as North Dakota.
If only, I bet a lot of Dakota residents would wish they got the favorable treatment Isreal gets. Not even saying you're wrong about your assessment, just that there's only really one state that actually matters to these people.

>>154191095
IIRC that issue doesn't even confirm he's a mutant, it's more like maybe he is, and he doesn't care either way.

I don't know what later issue they finally confirm it in.

>>154189863
>conquer the world and impose their will upon it
>take away anyone's ability to fight back
>imprison dissenters in a hell dimension
>take petty, vindictive vengeance on anyone who ever wronged a mutant
>do insane things like fusing tectonic plates and giving whales legs
>but it's an utopia because they're creating free gibs for thirdies
It's insane that Marvel keeps doing these stories where obvious villains conquer the world and put their boot on everyone's neck and there's a significant portion of the audience that wants to lick that boot if it means free gibs.

>>154202092
No there are states they care about (Israel is one, California is another, Texas is a third and so on) and ones that like you said, they wish there was a clause in the constitution that allowed them to remove Statehood so they could treat them like they treat the rest of the US empire.

>>154201154
>For all people (wrongly) hate Morrisons run, it was exactly where the franchise needed to go and HoM ruined it.
No. A thousand times no. The franchise moving in that direction is what's destroyed it. It turned the X-Men into something that anyone who's ever been a misfit or an outcast could identify with into something that was laser-focused on the "it's about minorities" metaphor, and had the X-Men fully accept their villains' belief that they weren't human, start othering themselves, and start getting increasingly passive aggressive and condescending towards normal humans, which eventually led to outright hostility. It's also the era that tried to push the idea that mutant villains like Magneto and the Brotherhood were an outdated concept there was no need for anymore, and enough later writers internalized this so much that a franchise that had one of the best rogues galleries in comics is stuck with a lot of those villains being loosely allied with the heroes because "racial solidarity against le ebul humans, you're the real villain, reader" or being actual members of the team, while still talking and acting like a villain.

It's telling that the people shilling this era are talking more about "progress on mutant rights" than about what it did to the characters, and don't care how it turned many into assholes, because they just want to read the civil rights movement but with superpowers. Their issue with House of M and it's fallout again isn't what it did to the characters, but what it did to "mutant rights progress".

Morrison just needed to do for X-Men what he did for JLA, instead he ruined X-Men as a superhero comic and as a concept because he couldn't see past the damn metaphor stuff, and now there's a huge segment of fandom who only want that, and want to "progress the narrative" and force massive changes onto the wider setting and try to get the rest of the Marvel Universe to play along, much like the X-books did again in the Krakoa era.

>>154178354
So, the Renew Your Vows Universe, where the Civil War was avoided by opening the Xavier school to all powered people as a way to self policy?

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>>154201745
oh no, some shit writers made the fuck up with beast happened but there were no stakes because no main characters really die since there are resurrection shenanigans. oh no beast did a fraction of what magneto has done and an even smaller fraction compared to genosha when cassandra nova was allowed to step one single foot on krakoa. hurr durr muh sensabilities. oh no the betrayal.

>your babbling about jews
yeah anon make everyone forget about magneto's diatribe about a capitalist plan to take over the world's economy, as if the x-writers took a page from elder protocols of zion. hm.

>>154176477
All the antisemitism coming from the replies.

>>154202310
>oh no beast did a fraction of what magneto has done and an even smaller fraction compared to genosha
Didn't Beast kill an entire country during Krakoa? Something about infecting them with a plant virus or some shit.

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>>154202332
yeah and then it was memoryholed and the rest of the main characters in earth 616 haven't said shit about it, because it was a stupid plot point and everyone knows it was completely out of character for beast, a former avenger, to do that.

then, the medicine that they were going to have a monopoly on wasn't used. so it was for fucking nothing.

x-writers are literally unhinged

>>154175527
It's a really interesting idea, especially the way they combine it via earlier X-men history, via timelines. Making a meta-commentary on how the X-men always get the short end of the stick, because the status-quo of their story (the thing comic books always reset to) is that they are hated, and try not to be hated, while some of their members actively justify that hate.

So now they get up, combine their powers, and do their own thing where they can be a political power like Wakanda. Instead of being split by in-fighting, and then taken off by the government the 12th time in a row.

Except, now they are douchbags, who are placing high-profile mutant criminals into leadership positions, and actively taking a "you vs us" stance against humanity. Despite all their words, they seem like "nice invaders", but invaders nonetheless, bent on subtle world-domination.

I kinda dropped out after a while, so no clue where it went. If anywhere.

>>154179850
>retard who is incapable of separating reality from fiction by explaining in-universe events with out-of-universe factors nobody cares about complaining about other peoole failing to separate reality from fiction
is this bait or retardation

So what was the secret origin for comicbook writers to hate beast why did they make a scapegoat for rightcyclops? becase bendis and his group are bad writers?
beast hate started with original sin and bendis shiting on him and the watcher?

>>154201248
Comes out he just used the wrong word.
He later ended up to be the one single source of morality on the island, teaching basic Catholic morals disguised as "progressive moderation" aka "let's be kind to each other and think about the consequences of our actions, not just lose ourselves in instant gratification"

>>154202381
The team's tag-line used to be "sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them", but in the 2000s when the X-Men decided they weren't human after all, they started getting a lot more focused on what's best for mutants over what's right, and larping as a race with it's own territory over wanting acceptance.

There is this constant narrative of the mutants behaving like an invasive species and most of their 'community leaders' being murderous terrorist supervillains, but the narrative is so unaware of what it's doing that it's always suddenly for no reason the evil bigoted humans attacked the mutants who just want to exist.

>>154179893
nothing in that pitch mentioned the guy being a mutant you retarded speedreader

>>154202386
>beast hate started with original sin and bendis
No, it goes back to the Utopia era, with Scott and Emma as the leaders of all mutants. Beast and Nightcrawler were the two characters raising moral objections to what they were doing, Nightcrawler got killed very quickly after he found out about the secret death squad, and didn't come back until the post AvX era, while Beast was written to be in the wrong for being a moralfag when every new storyline was presented as an existential crisis where the ends justified the means and only by blindly following their leaders could they survive.

Beast ragequitting the X-Men and joining an Avengers squad led to him getting proclaimed a 'race traitor' by elements of the fandom who'd drunk the kool-aid, and his actions in a Secret Avengers story and a previous X-Men story by Ellis would serve to make him look like a hypocrite in his moralfag stance against Cyclops. By the time Bendis was writing X-Men the fandom's dislike of Beast had been entrenched for 4-5 years and he was just pandering to it.

>>154202386
>>154202437
The Utopia era is basically the modern push for ruthless Beast starts, culminating in Krakoa Beast.
But I feel like it goes all the way back to the Legacy Virus. Even though Threnody willingly goes with Sinister, that moment cemented the idea of Beast willing to dirty his hands.
And then AoA brought Dark Beast into the 616. Lots of characters have evil versions of themselves. But Beast had his hanging around, constantly hammering home the point that Beast could go bad.
I feel like these two points are the real originator of ruthless Beast. It set it up, and kept the idea afloat until the X-writers then decided to full hog with it. With the muties facing extinction, it probably seemed like the perfect moment to push the anti-hero angle for Beast. It was already being played with for Cyclops during that era. And X-Force. Bringing Mags into the fold. Villains into Utopia. Etc and etc.
Utopia basically played with that idea for muties as a whole. And Beast was one of the ones who took some steps that crossed the liney.

>>154202511
>But I feel like it goes all the way back to the Legacy Virus. Even though Threnody willingly goes with Sinister, that moment cemented the idea of Beast willing to dirty his hands.
Anon, no. That's one isolated story where Sinister talks Beast into making a moral compromise for the sake of trying to find a Legacy Virus cure, and there's a follow-up story about 6 or 7 issues later where Beast feels remorse and tries to put things right (even though he doesn't really succeed).

Neither that story, nor Age of Apocalypse having an evil version of Beast should be used as justification for what different writers decided to do almost 15 years later. There wasn't some constant narrative that he could go bad, and the writers working on the Utopia era and onwards weren't citing these stories as their inspiration for what they were dong.

When a character gets wrecked by hacks, we shouldn't look back at older comics by better writers and pretend there's an issue here or there which justifies the modern hackwork and act like this is the payoff to a narrative that all could make sense. The Utopia era set up Cyclops and Emma as the protagonists of X-Men, set Beast up as an opponent to them, and tore him down for it, then subsequent writers kept tearing him down to pander to an audience that disliked him. That's all that happened. None of these people were inspired by one 1993 comic or the existence of an evil AU version of Beast.

>>154202278
I don't think they actually did not necessarily in renew your vows but they did offer Spider-Man's daughter to go to the school instead of normal school because she was born with her powers as a sort of safe space.

>>154179893
>>154180770
>>154181367
>>154202413


See

>>154202623

>>154175527
This is what finally convinced me that X-fags are indeed the worst comic fanbase.

Almost every major fanbase as its toxic shippers, annoying powerlevelfags, and UM ACKSHUALLY fags, but fans cheering on an ethnostate and saying how it was a good and based thing when the main writer of it was explicitly writing it as a bad thing is definitely new ground. Even Batman writers haven't gotten Batfags and batfamilyfags to cheer on child abuse despite like 30+ years of material.

>>154202511
>>154202437
Thanks for refreshing my memory anons. But still blame writter for Beast position in x-men.
Note I stopped reading marvel cape books right before inhumans versus x -men in 2016. But from 2006-2015 I read almost every single caped marvel book.

But beast didn't anything more dangeros than x-force, wolverine, magnus or rightclops (the name from 12-14 years ago). I still blame writers like Bendis and his troppe. Fraction and Gillen with their disavantages and ticks were still better than everything that came after.
Only Bunn and Remender could understand Marvel characters at that time: 2012-2014.

>>154202550
I think you're missing my point. Like I said, the actual push started in Utopia.
But those Legacy Virus and Dark Beast sets up the push. Legacy Virus seeded the idea, Dark Beast keeps it alive in everyone's mind.
I'm not saying there was a consistent narrative or concerted laying of the tracks to lead to evil Beast. I'm saying those two moments seeded the idea, unintentionally. Then Decimation happens, and Beast is already primed to be used as the "do bad shit for the greater good" guy.
I'm just saying that the idea was there floating in the background well before Decimation.

>>154201620
hat's the best way to report this to get this guy banned for a week because he should not be talking about Israel in a comic book flag given the slight opportunity to even mention it and use an image totally without any context whatsoever just to call it evil.

>>154202655
At some point the narrative shifted to "if mutants are doing something, it's good. If something is being done to mutants, it's unforgiveable."

The specific idea of a mutant ethnostate was presented as a bad thing in the 90s when Magneto tried it several times, by the early 2000s a mutant ghetto was presented as a positive thing, and afterwards successive mutant ethnostates were portrayed as a good thing.

>>154175527
You surprised now OP? X men fans were always retard.

>>154197340
>House of M was Magneo getting what he wanted, being horrified by it and killing Pietro for bringing it about.
He wasn't horrified by the world of House of M, he was horrified that reality had been forcibly rewritten and done in his name, and that everyone thought he was responsible. He wasn't remotely horrified by a scenario where he was king of the world and mutants were the majority, oppressing the remaining humans, just that it was all fake, people were blaming him for it, and his fake-kids had 'used' him.

>>154202691
>mutant ethnostate
This is my main issue with the idea. The idea is always a nation/territory/location of only mutants, of mutant supremacy. Like, had I done Krakoa, it would have been a mutant/flatscan kumbaya state. A full throated thesis of Xavier's dream. Humans working hand in hand with mutants. Working to make life a better place. Doing good.
Its crazy that I think the only time I ever saw that being a thing was in Cable & Deadpool when Cable turned Ship into a haven. Krakoa should have been a progression from THAT, not Genosha.

>>154202719
>mutant nation but also with humans in it
Anon, don't learn about New Tian, it'll break your heart.

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>>154175527
I'm pretty sure the "To me, my Xmen" scene with the clone/ressurected members was supposed to be played as creepy and not triumphant.

>>154202719
Well that’s not the story your lead writers want to tell anymore, because the mutants are allegories for jews and jews in the 90s decided, once the Soviet Union was gone, that they had the chance to destroy ALL the goyim and now some animals are more equal than others.

>>154203059
The word goyim (plural) and goy (singular) are Hebrew words that simply mean "nation" or "nations". Their implications depend heavily on the context, intent, and background of the speaker.When Jews Use ItLiteral Meaning: Historically and linguistically, it just means "non-Jew" or someone from another nation. In the Torah, the Jewish people themselves are often referred to as a goy (a nation).Implication: For Jews, it functions as a standard in-group term for outsiders, similar to how Hawaiian people use haole or Spanish speakers use gringo. It is rarely intended as an insult.Modern Context: While not inherently offensive, many Jews today—especially in diverse, interfaith, or progressive communities—prefer to use "non-Jewish" in casual conversation. They often find goyim or goy to sound exclusionary or "othering" when spoken in English.When People Who Dislike Jews Use ItWeaponization: Antisemites, white supremacists, and conspiracy theorists use the word goyim with a highly derogatory implication. They use it to dehumanize non-Jews, treating them as a monolithic, gullible group being manipulated by an imagined Jewish cabal.Implication: The term is deliberately weaponized to promote hate and propagate dangerous conspiracy theories. For instance, antisemitic groups have adopted catchphrases like "The Goyim Know," which is used as a mocking meme to allege that Jews are panicked about their "secrets" being exposed to the rest of the world.SummaryWhile goyim is generally a neutral, albeit somewhat archaic, ethnic out-group term for Jewish speakers, its usage by antisemites is inherently malicious. To learn more about how out-group terms are tracked and contextualized, you can visit the American Jewish Committee or the Anti-Defamation League.

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>>154197249

>>154202564
The whole thing was explicitly because that's how they avoided the civil war

>>154175990
>Terminal velocity
So like 130 mph?

>>154179661
> Because comic book have this thing called “retroactive continuity”
Yes these things called RETCONS, which are usually bad writing pulled by hack writers when they want their cake and eat it..

>>154175990
This is based on to how the Babylonians destroyed the Kingdom of Judah for it's hubris
Source: my dreams

>>154178548
It's crazy Wolverine was right about being literally against Omega Red(a pedophile) being kept without watch.
Still weird Gorgon was fine.

>>154202726
Wasn Genosha basically that? And it went back and forth with Mutants as slaves until X-tinction Agenda?

>>154203520
(You)den

>>154206564
>(You)den
What is that even supposed to mean? Can you say things that most people would understand?

>>154178270
Since the early 00s they had been puishing the persecution angle more stongly for the X-Men and that was all unrelated to any lead up to Krakoa. The Avengers stuff is another issue since that was obviously written by Hickman himself. Krakoa had no real lead up before House of X/Powers of X, it just could use past comics to partially justify itself, but most of the focus was on the stuff from Hickman's mini's anyway.

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>>154206585

>>154206585
Say it out loud with a german accent

>>154202437
nightcrawler was killed by bastion at the very end.

>>154202310
>magneto's diatribe
same thing as england's strategy during the world wars, same thing japan did in the 80s, same thing saudi is doing now, same thing china is doing. Has nothing to do with israel, which doesn't even buy us companies and media. American jews do but their ideology is so completely divided and retarded they spent the most propaganda money in history trying to destroy and imprison the most pro israel president that's ever been elected.

>>154197277
It was fucked up writers era who honestly thought that the X-Men haven't forever ruined their own cause to play aristocrats and have beach parties with mutant Hitlers

Where in the main event they get called out for their hubris, for granting diplomatic immunity to Creed (not because of him escaping, acknowledging how wrong it was to proclaim that humans had no right to judge his crimes against humans), slapping on the wrist Nature Girl, not giving a shit about her victims and their families, or proclaiming themselves new gods?

>>154207848
>Where in the main event they get called out for their hubris, for granting diplomatic immunity to Creed (not because of him escaping, acknowledging how wrong it was to proclaim that humans had no right to judge his crimes against humans), slapping on the wrist Nature Girl, not giving a shit about her victims and their families, or proclaiming themselves new gods?
None of this happened pleb.

>>154202208
>California is another, Texas is a third and so on
California got the US military sent to harass it nonstop since the current admin, and Texas is getting the life snuffed out of it due to data centers and general corruption. If these ghouls care about anything besides Isreal, those are a VERY distant second or third.

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>>154208013
All of it happened

>>154175527
So who was the best writer during the Krakoa era?

>>154208275
Gillen.

>>154208188
Have you ever compared Israel's International budget of what goes to it compares to the rest of the world or even the rest of the Middle East America cares number one foremost about itself and sometimes that means I'm in an ally so they aren't killing Jews in America instead of in that country in the Middle East.

>>154200811
>Dark Phoenix happened because Mastermind was fucking with Jean's head. It's not inherently destructive
The event literally, LITERALLY, opened with Nova witnessing destruction of life on a cosmic scale.

>>154208272
the panel says the us granted him immunity, learn to read you illiterate nigger.

>>154208387
if you want mr sinisters dick then sure.

>>154208442
Yes but the undertone is that the leadership in Krakoa pushed for the state department to agree to the lubricious term of
>All our citizens have diplomatic immunity
Which would only cover your ass for minor crimes, not something thats a felony

>>154198287
Which is a shame because it begins the cringeworthy "Cyclops is always right even when he isn't" era.
Aka Wannabee Cracker Malcolm X phase

>>154208466
It's a good dick

>>154208491
Creed would have been released after appealing their illegal arrest and illegal trial, he also would have sued and won. They did them a favor. Otherwise your just whining about immunity existing as a legal instrument when there are multiple historical precedents for mass amnesty.

>>154208466
He did write a great Sinister. Everyone else was worse. Hickman, a blowhard who doesn't believe in heroes. Duggan, a resistance lib dullard. Percy performed the biggest act of character assassination on Beast yet. Wells was a Madelyne simp. Ewing, a Storm simp and Magneto apologist and also totally focused on Hickman's least interesting additions with the Martian crap. Spurrier was not bad for the most part, but he made Nightcrawler Destiny's butt-baby out of sheer contempt for Chuck Austen and a stubborn adherence to Claremont's original wacky idea of Mystique being the father. Just piling failure on failure with all the retcons to his origin.

>>154208666
Gillen's sinister is shit and he's responsible for his flamboyant homosexual character retcon. The best writer was al ewing. Arako was the most interesting thing in the entire era and the only area where anything even happened post hickman.

>>154208666
The Nightcrawler one is hilarious because it turned his red loser father into a global threat who would murder the world’s superheroes unless Mystique fucked him

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>>154208700
It wasn't a retcon. At the start of Gillen's original Uncanny run, once Fraction bounced off, he established that Sinister is constantly modifying his own brain/personality. It was an addition. Hickman the blowhard was the one who erroneously thought he was always like that.
>Arako was the most interesting thing in the entire era and the only area where anything even happened post hickman.
Just what exactly happened? Turns out that Apocalypse is just a simp for his wife. A bunch of mutants are fighting demons on Mars, who cares, what does this have to do with Earth?

>>154200782
>He escaped from magic mutant jail.
to be fair Doug let him and everyone else in the pit out iirc

>>154208763
>he established that Sinister is constantly modifying his own brain/personality. It was an addition.
yes anon retcons usually have some hackneyed justification when people do them.

>>154208658
>Creed would have been released after appealing their illegal arrest and illegal trial
He was arrested after a break-in and robbery where he also wounded several guards.

>>154208806
A retcon is something that changes the past. There was no retcon here, he made himself funnier at the start of the run. When Gillen wrote Sinister in Origin II, which took place in the past, he wrote him as his previous far-more-serious self.

>>154208783
He manipulated a weak blackmail that shouldn't have worked. Lavalle should have come up with something better.

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>>154208890
If you're referring to the Sherlock Holmes issue, he outright states that's the result of Apocalypse's enhancements going wrong and ultimately killing him.

Kinda lost me when the final boss of the age was actually just Sinister but bigger and covered in 14 karat gold.

>>154209092
Elaborate

>>154203003
The problem with Hick-Men is the Hickman writes every single goddamn character the same, so it doesn't mean shit. "Creepy, amoral weirdo" describes Hickman's heroes.

>>154206427
No, Genosha was explicitly a state where all mutants, which included people who didn't have mutations but had the genetic precursors, were slaves to a tyrannical government, until overthrown with help from the X-Men. Then it existed as a post-apartheid state plagued with mutual violence, exacerbated by the Acolytes, until stripped of it's sovereignty by the UN and handed over to Magneto despite him causing the problem, after which he ethnically cleanses the island. New Tian was mutants playing ball with HYDRA to be given the West Coast as a fiefdom were they get to play Jim Crow with humans in exchange for pushing the race war back a decade and Holocaust 2: Inhuman Boogaloo.

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>>154209168
Enigma aka Robo Mr Sinister

>>154209174
>after which he ethnically cleanses the island
No that was Cassandra Nova using a super sentinel of somekind
>>154209203
That's lame

>>154209266
>No that was Cassandra Nova using a super sentinel of somekind
that was afterwards

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>>154209092
That was necessary because Gillen was deeply uncomfortable with Hickman claiming that AI and humanity had irreconcilable differences that could only be resolved through one genociding the other.

>>154209266
>Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous.
Magneto was true to the definition. He told all the humans on the island they had to get out or die.

>>154209437
I was unaware that Magneto also did a genocide on the island

>>154209168
What's not to get, final boss was Big Sinister with the premium skin.

>>154208810
Creed, and everyone else, would need to be performing diplomatic/embassy functions or be a spouse/dependent of a diplomatic functionary in order to get diplomatic immunity. But as per most fiction the story ignores the actual reality of diplomatic immunity. No embassies are formed using the proper procedures, diplomatic immunity is given to all citizens of a nation rather than select members of diplomatic and consular missions, said immunity is never revoked, diplomatic immunity is conflated with a freedom of travel and entry, actively hostile actions by agents of a foreign state are covered, the stated exceptions to diplomatic immunity are ignored, and, more pertinent for the post-Krakoa era, the loss of citizenship that would occur as an effect of gaining the immunity.

>>154202719
>Like, had I done Krakoa, it would have been a mutant/flatscan kumbaya state.
The problem is that ever since House of M, the X-Men fanbase have become rabid extremists who hate the integrationist message of Xavier (or MLK) in favor of the more extremist message of Magneto (or Malcolm X). This accelerated with Krakoa but existed for a while before that point too. Remember all the wailing and teeth gnashing over the "Call me Alex" scene from Uncanny Avengers, basically calling Havok a race traitor and shit? The thing that led to Remender telling people to "drown in hobo piss"? That was back in 2012 and the fanbase has only gotten worse ever since.

When I say HoM did immeasurable damage to the X-Men I don't just mean how it fucked up the concept (which it did) but how it affected the fans and turned them into raving mutant supremacist loons with a massive persecution complex. It just got worse during Cuckoa when the gay readers glommed on and began using the X-Men books as a projected power fantasy where they get revenge on all the bigots and chuds and get to show how superior mutant (gay socialist) culture is to everything. The irony of course is that Cuckoa is pretty blatantly an Israel stand-in that they adore despite hating Israel IRL (which isn't me coming down on any side in THAT bullshit, just amused by it).

I think they should do a comic where the Fury (when he's not a jobber), Ultron, and Nimrod all tag team the shit outta those damn mutants.

>>154209850
Bold of you to assume that Ultron makes a separation between mutants and regular humans

>>154209899
No, that's the fun part. He'll get out a whiteboard and carefully explain to Nimrod how muties are just humans with wings and how he has to reassess his prejudices and hone them on all human beings instead of just a specific group.

>>154208922
acting like a faggot instead of dracula wasn't because of apocalypse it was because of gillen.

>>154209396
>Hickman claiming that AI and humanity had irreconcilable differences that could only be resolved through one genociding the other.
Vision.mp4

>>154209942
So organic genocide

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>>154209525
Well he did let a handful of useful humans remain, he didn't go full retard like Planet X Magneto/Xorneto who couldn't even maintain the power grid and water supply network of a single city.

>>154209396
Gillen wrote an a.i dominion coming to eat the planet before dr nemesis kills it.

>>154209525
Genocide is a method by which ethnic cleansing can be carried out, instead he forcibly ousted the entire human population of Genosha. Which is something the X-Men comics completely ignore, the Genoshan diaspora should be massive - possibly larger than the entire mutant population.

>>154175527
>And we're supposed to believe they're the good guys?
Yes, the entire run justifies everything they believed when doing it btw. The faggots you wanted to end it got their way and x-men is the worst its been in its entire history now, so congratulations.

>>154210253
>x-men is the worst its been in its entire history now,
Bendis

>>154210286
And the Inhuman gas-era was even worse than that.

>>154210286
>>154210337
No bendis and the limbo era were both still better. Bendis era wasn't even that bad it was just dissappointing.

>>154209673
the x-men facebase is a bunch of homoshippers and boomers who want avengerslop with a different title on the book.
>gay readers glommed on and began using the X-Men books as a projected power fantasy where they get revenge
no they cared about xcalibur and new mutants where fuck all happens except gays whining about their feelings.
>the "Call me Alex" scene from Uncanny Avengers
backlash over avx and the company shitting on scott and the franchise over movie shit which continued for another 7 years.
>Cuckoa is pretty blatantly an Israel stand-in
bullshit headcanon

>>154210480
I like what MacKay's doing whenever he's not getting interrupted by Brevoort's events like it's the 90s. The mid-10s were dreadful.

>>154201026
Hickman shouldn't have created a new mutant hate group so X-fags couldn't have had a convenient scapegoat to blame for Krakoa failing.