>>154193864
What are Dreamer's powers?

>>154193883
He can dream he's a girl.

>>154193883
Enter other people’s dreams, dream of the future, traverse the dream world, and manipulate dream energy to create minor force fields which is basically just Green Lantern but worse
She also might be able to mess with memories if she gets deep enough into someone

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>>154193883
>travel through dreams
>energy constructs
>energy blasts

Here's my pitch

She only uses the dream travel as a last resort, because the longer she's in someone's dream, the more their personality influences her and the longer it takes to wear off. This could be harmless, like making her a cocky jerk or a fawning bimbo fangirl when going through Guy Gardner's dreams, or it can turn her evil and unpredictable when going through a Legion of Doom member's dreams. As a side effect of this, she's also very vulnerable to mind control.

>>154193864
That costume looks like a placeholder for an actual superhero costume that never came to fruition.

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>>154193963
It needs an emblem. Like the Legion Cartoon Dream Girl

>>154193949
Interesting idea. I’d like to ad the caveat that during dream travel she’s safe as long as she isn’t spotted by the person who’s dream she’s in. But the minute they see her, she gets assigned a role in their dream world

>>154194113
That's a good idea. Maybe the person seeing her accelerates the process of her losing herself in the psyche of the other person. And if the other party is able to turn it into a LUCID dream, she's almost entirely at their mercy.

>>154193864
Kill them all off. Starting with Jon Kent.

>>154194141
Yeah. Which would make her storylines very focused on espionage.
As a last resort she can probably call out to Dream or the Endless to save her. But every save has a cost that must be paid on service to him, potentially putting her in even more danger

>>154194169
I like that. It definitely adds a good risk/reward angle.

If she's in, say, Riddler or Mad Hatter's head, it's mostly a nuisance but not a HUGE danger. If she fails they wake up Jervis and keep her in solitary until she stops calling herself Alice. That means she can have stories where she DOES lose without it being catastrophic.

But if someone like Ras Al Ghul or Darkseid catches her, she has to beg to higher powers before she's either engulfed in eternal torment or made a permanent Female Fury with her psyche totally absorbed and rewritten.

>>154194212
That also begs an interesting question which is what happens to Nia if a person wakes up with her still in the dream. Does it cause further affects or just eject her. Or perhaps she becomes trapped in their subconscious until the person she entered falls asleep again

>>154194169
Building off of this angle, Dreamer would be really cool as an agent of Morpheus with Golden Age Sandman as her mentor
Dream could contact her via raven and send her to track down and dispose of rogue nightmares and dream entities in both the Dreaming and the waking world

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>>154194276
That's definitely one of those things I'm not sure if it would be better to concretely define, or keep loosey goosey on a story by story basis.

You ever read the Don Rosa story "Dream of a Lifetime"? There's some interesting ideas there you could incorporate into Nia's stories.

>Asking someone a question in a dream will have them automatically tell you the truth, because the mind thinks of an answer before deciding whether to speak or not. This gives her an advantage because she can ask anything she wants and immediately get a truthful answer.
>A dream only exists within close proximity of the person dreaming it, because people dream of scenarios and situations, not entire universes. This puts her at greater risk of being absorbed, but also means she can be close to her target at all times.
>Dreams are mercurial and fluid, and a single word out of place to the dreamer can change the dream entirely.

As an aside, brainstorming Dreamer is one of the best conversations I've had on /co/ in a while, thank you kindly Anon.

>>154194340
No problem. I’ve always believed that both /co/ and corporations have an unfortunate aversion to LGBT characters, which means that most have a lot of potential and very little follow through.


Moving forward I like all of those ideas, though I feel like one addition is that dreamers can only say what they believe is the truth, so Dreamers only knows what they believe.
Also as an interesting addition, Waller has regularly threatened Dreamer’s family to force her to spy for her in canon, so I think that would be an interesting angle to take along with the absorption
Also her descendant Dream Girl has been fully corrupted in the Absolute universe, so Darkseid may prioritize corrupting her

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>>154194113
Maybe something like this?
>Target doesn't see her, Dreamer is fully herself. The dream world tugs at her, but she can easily resist it.
>Target sees her, she's assigned a role in the dream. Dreamer is still mostly in control so she can subtly interrogate and influence her target, but she can also feel herself slipping into her role much more easily and quickly. Almost like being drunk or drugged, she feels fuzzy around the edges and has to focus to maintain.
>Almost Worst Case Scenario: The target realizes she's not part of them and shouldn't be there. The target's psyche instantly overwhelms her own and she's almost completely absorbed into her role because it's the only way the target's psyche can rationalize her presence while maintaining the worldview and mentality of the target. She doesn't belong there? That's impossible. She has to, and we will MAKE her part of this mind.
>Absolute Worst Case, Code Red Scenario: The target is lucid dreaming, AND recognizes Dreamer isn't part of their mind. At that point it's an Uno reversal card, the target knows absolutely everything Dreamer knows and can consciously reshape her to their whim and wills, potentially permanently.

>>154194300
>Building off of this angle, Dreamer would be really cool as an agent of Morpheus with Golden Age Sandman as her mentor
Love this idea.

>>154194469
Interesting. That’s a really good interpretation and I especially like the danger that lucid dreaming provides. I’d only add one thing
>Subject has had their dreams invaded before and is used to communicating with dream entities (for example Superman or Batman): Dreamer is perfectly safe and even has power over the dreamer right up until they realize they have power over her. Her level of power is based on the expectations of whoever’s dream she’s entering

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>>154194566
>Batman has Dreamer in his mind every night to talk with her so he can never stop working.
>Dreamer has to beg him to take a night off and just dream about fucking Catwoman or something so SHE can have peace and quiet for once.

So when Dreamer goes through dreams, does her corporeal form go with her, or does her ohysical form chill in the real world while her mind enters her target?

I guess if she travels through dreams, it would be the former, right?

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>>154193864
Just make a shoreleave character. Focus entirely on the badassery and action and sprinkle in some gay subplots.

Spy action first, gayness second

>>154194621
>Dreamer hates Batman because every time he dreams he doesn’t assign her a role but does have high expectations
>slowly over the course of a month he turns her into even more of a workaholic

>>154194745
Superman realizes Dreamer is becoming very Batman-y and has a talk with Bruce. She stops coming to him EVERY night, but willingly spends a night or two in his mind when she needs to lock the fuck in on something, like a shot of dream ritalin.

I’m trying to figure out what even is her personality. So far from what I’ve looked up, Nia Nal seems to be
>shy in civilian life
>easily emotionally hurt
>idealistic to the point of essentially wanting to be a silver age hero
>dedicated to her work
>flighty and paranoid when she gets in trouble. She was actively hiding from the JLA after Waller framed her and panicked when a superhero showed up
>has a strong sense of justice and need to intervene especially in bigotry, this makes her easy to manipulate if people are in danger
>gets either very angry or sad when things don’t go her way
>has a strong sense of independence and will actively refuse help from others

So in other words she’s an idealistic silver age heroine with a sheltered upbringing who wants to be independent in a world that doesn’t live up to her expectations

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>>154194912
I think there's actually a lot here that can tie into the ideas we brainstormed. She feels shy in her real life, but slipping into someone's mind actually makes her feel confident and more able to relate to someone. She's flighty and paranoid when in danger because she's constantly at risk of losing herself. You could even do a story where she enters a villain's mind... and a part of her that she hates actually really enjoyed it, because she got to feel what it felt like to be selfish and care only about herself and HER comfort.

>>154193864
Does Dreamer still have her penis? This is very important.

There are four minds that Dreamer absolutely refuses to enter under any circumstance for fear of being consumed
>Joker: self explanatory
>Doctor Destiny: his control of the dream realm is too much of a risk to her
>Doctor Psycho: telepathic and a trans inclusive radical misogynist
>Hal Jordan: no

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>>154193864
I'd like to see one male homosexual character who was as promiscuous as gay men actually are IRL.

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>>154195020
>gets addicted to villain influence and slowly becomes pic rel

>>154195030
If I remember correctly she received mentioned having to cancel her appointment because she went on the run. Don’t know why she doesn’t just use Superman or Mr Terrific’s gender ray

>>154195054
If you go with the idea she'd be vulnerable to hypnosis and mind control Dr. Psycho would make a good villain for her. Not in a Batman and Joker or Superman and Lex Luthor archrivalry sort of way, probably closer to Purple Man and Jessica Jones. He would terrify her and he would relish that fact.

>>154195118
Qrd?
>>154195054
>Hal Jordan
It's the Parallax thing isn't it?

>>154195020
Agreed. I like the idea of her greatest fantasy being bet greatest weakness. Kind of a commentary on superhero escapism there and getting lost in somebody else’s fantasy
>>154195199
Dr Psycho reminds me of that one post of a European guy who was deeply misogynistic but inclusive towards trans people because “only a woman could be stupid enough to want to be a woman”

>>154195228
Recently Darkseid unleashed the absolute Omega Legion on the prime Justice League. This version of Dream girl was driven insane by visions of him

>>154195312
>Kind of a commentary on superhero escapism there and getting lost in somebody else’s fantasy
Yeah. And it works because in moderate doses, it really DOES make Dreamer powerful and more confident. It's when she's tempted to lose herself completely that it becomes a problem and it's one she has to constantly grapple with.

>>154195118
When did the Darkseid's Legion guys show up as characters? I've only see them as flying evil mooks around KO. I think it was KO.

Also I heard they're the Absolute universes Legion? How does that make sense? The Earth of the present is radically different, but leads to the same Legion? I know that kind of shit is always fucked in comics, but what?

>>154195398
Yeah. It’s interesting because this change to her power set means she’s constantly acting out other people’s fantasies and her own in the space between Dreams.
It’s fundamentally going to push her to become her true self in reality, otherwise she might as well be an extra, just like she is in dreams

I'm really enjoying this new take on Dreamer. So, who should her archenemy be?

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>>154193864
>So let’s workshop
>How do we make them more interesting
I don't want them to exist.

>>154195569
I’m tempted to say either a dream entity or Doctor Destiny. That or another modern day legion ancestor
She does originate from the Supergirl tv show so it could be a sentient Black Mercy

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Here is an interesting plot: the character detransitions and stops being groomed.

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>>154193864
by just writing them as real people instead of 1-dimensional diversity quotas

>>154193949
>>154194141
>>154194469
>vulnerable to hypnosis
>assumes roles based on the dreamer
>at the mercy of lucid dreamers
>lasting effects
So on a scale from Animal Man to Golden Age Wonder Woman, how deep into fetish territory are we going

>>154195816
The character is a tranny, it already revolves around fetishes to begin with

>>154195816
All in, like all great comic superheroes.

>>154195816
Is Animal Man particularly kinky?

>>154195816
She fantasized about being Wonder Woman. If she wants to be Wondy, she can have everything that comes with it.

>>154195919
I think they said it cause it’s not

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What if Dreamer accidentally takes a character from someone's dreams out of that person's head and they becime her sidekick? Someone who existed only as a figment of someone's imagination having to slowly learn to become an actual person would gel well with the themes of self-realization we're discussing.

>>154196089
Batgirl Zur En Arrh

>>154195934
He*
>>154196089
he*

>>154196126
You. Keep talking.

>>154196159
If we were to take the Sandman ideas of dreams and nightmares then its fully possible that Dreamer could bring dreams into reality, including implanted hallucinations such as an alt Batgirl created from Failsafe implanting a backup in Barbara.
Actually if we go this route it could lead to an even more messed up version of the Dark Multiverse where Batman’s literal nightmares spill into reality including his worst fear Thomas Wayne Joker

>>154196213
>"So anyway, Other Barb, that's why we can never go back to Gotham. "

>>154196336
>my name is Batgirl
>oh right, forgot you were AI generated

>>154195312
>Kind of a commentary on superhero escapism there and getting lost in somebody else’s fantasy
Technically he already does this by being a tranny

Theoretically, wouldn't her biggest weakness be having to avoid letting the dreamer know they're in a dream? Dreams tend to go batshit pretty quick once the dream becomes self aware

>>154196423
His*

>>154196126
>>154196213
>>154196336
>>154196364
Do we wanna keep her name as Batgirl Zur En Arrh? Or does she keep that name initially and change it later? What would be thematically consistent with Dreamer?

>>154196441
I mean we could give her the LoSH name if Dream girl and just have her as the origin

>>154196434
Okay. Whatever. What happens when these powers interact with a self-aware lucid dream.
Hell, if you really wanna get into it?
A fever dream. Death dream. A DMT trip?

There's a lot of crazy shit you can do.

>>154196423
I think that's one of a few things she'd have to watch out for. Keep a target from losing their hold on a dream, making sure they don't know they're in a dream, having to deal with when a scenario becomes a nightmare... it's hard to get answers out of someone when you're being chased by zombies but also your legs are rubber and you're moving in slow motion.

>>154196501
He'd*

>>154196488
Ooo, she enters the mind of someone on a hallucenogenic drug or something and her presence means she keeps hopping between reality and the dream and bringing things from it to reality

>>154194469
Bet she enjoys losing herself in the dreams of more egocentric heroes. People she can trust won’t abuse her mental state, but still self centered enough to change her. Bet she loves just becoming a dumb bimbo fan girl

>>154196563
I think she can enter dreams via astral projection but if she can do it both mentally and physically then that’s really interesting. Physically being more high risk high reward

>>154196563
He enters*

>>154196574
He enjoys*

>>154196606
He can*

Remind to always pratice truegendering.

>>154196665
It’s a superhero world.

>>154196733
Why is he even a tranny in a suerhero world. Couldn't he get magic to turn him into a real girl.

>>154196751
Or get a million other characters to make him stop being a tranny by accepting himself.

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>>154195569
>>154195705
There's a few ideas based on the theme for baddies for her.

Someone who wants to dominate others in their dreams. That'd be someone like Dr. Destiny.

Someone who wants to escape entirely into escapism and merge their dreams with reality.

A Lex Luthor wannabe who is legit asking "How can I monetize dreams?"

>>154196751
Zatanna was busy I guess. Which is odd because she’s canonically swapped trans people before
Actually since she’s the ancestor of Nura Nal and very into men, she probably does eventually get changed so she can get pregnant

>>154196856
Him*

>>154196856
Others could include

A grieving parent/lover who wants to revive the dead using dream copies

A lovecraftian cult seeking to bring their god into reality including

Fuseli

The Hat Man

>>154196856
The mirror

>>154196488
>As she matures in her career, some dreams just annoy her more than anything else.
>"Dammit. It's a falling dream. I really wish they wouldn't scream."

>>154196859
>Actually since she’s the ancestor of Nura Nal and very into men, she probably does eventually get changed so she can get pregnant
He could have also detransitioned

>>154197055
>ah fuck me it’s a chasing dream aaaaand I’m the monster now. Great just what I wanted, the lingering urge to stalk people at night

>>154197148
Powers travel from mother to daughter so this is actually impossible in the lore. It’s literally Nia’s destiny to get pregnant

>>154196859
>Which is odd because she’s canonically swapped trans people before
That's actually really nice of her.

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>>154196856
>A Lex Luthor wannabe who is legit asking "How can I monetize dreams?"
This is legit fucking plausible and I hate it.

Fuck, they already wanna put billboards in space.

>>154197240
Yeah. I’m pretty sure it was a businessman who became a stripper afterwards and Zatanna did accidentally turn her assistant into a girl, but she tried to be nice

>>154197287
>>154197240
>I’m pretty sure it was a businessman who became a stripper afterwards
No retard.

She turned a businesman into a stripper to fuck with him, and he ended up being into it. She wasn't trying to help anyone, she turned the guy into a stripper to screw with him.

>>154197328
Oh so the intention was the opposite of helping a tranny.

>>154197287
She didn't change her assistant, something else did. I'd say the easiest way to square the circle is having a permanent sex swap be a complex and difficult ritual that Zee can't do frequently.

>>154197269
They’d probably force Dreamer to stay in his dream until he turns her into either a secretary or corporate mascot sent out to go advertise. Would be funny if a lucid dreamer freed her

>>154197476
Male secretaries are a bit odd

>>154197386
>>154197328
It was a lawyer, she was dating him at the time, it was explicitly a sex thing on her part, and it turned out he was into it so much he asked her to not change him back.

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>>154197476

Something like Ms. Buy Me?

Also, a lucid dreamer that's on Dreamer's side sounds like a good supporting character.

>>154197559
Probably something more similar to Flo from Progressive but it depends on the corporation and what they plan to advertise

>>154197582
They have contracts lined up with LexCorp and Big Belly Burgers, and they expect to roll it out next quarter.

Dream enthusiast? We got you. For a small fee of $9.95 a month you can enjoy your dreams ad free. Pure and ununterrupted. Start your free seven day trial today!

>>154197055
>ok, ok, it’s just a frat boy’s dream. Just stay calm, keep your composure, relax. I am Nia Nal, I am Dreamer, I am a superhero, I am not a party girl or his girlfriend, I am… oh God why does he have to be so hotttt

>>154197745
>>154195816
Wtf I love Dreamer now

>>154197710
Given she started as a Supergirl character it would make sense if Lex was behind it. But Lex would probably throw in some Superman hate too, which is ironic given Nia was inspired by him to become a hero

>>154197868
The secret to writing a good trans character is to make her just as much of a damsel as every other super heroine

>>154194017
Do agree, but maybe not the cloud. Right now it’s just a boring bodysuit. The original leotard at least had more personality

>>154193864
>workshop
>verb
ngmi

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>>154193963
That's basically the idea behind pic related. But at least she flopped and Marvel forgot about her. Dreamer is used consistently and all they did was add a brown jacket to her regular outfit.

>>154199615
What people forgot about Dreamer is that she’s based on Arrowverse Supergirl which is basically American Tokusatsu. They’re trying to design her like a comic hero when they should be leaning into the toku aspects of her design

>>154195816
There’s something particularly provocative and ironic about the idea of Dreamer being weak to hypnosis. Imagine being Nia Nal and going through all the trouble of being trans. All the questioning, the hormones, everything. Imagine spending years building yourself up as the woman you always wanted to be. Strong, independent, hardworking. And then you get superpowers, decide to be a hero and none of it matters. Because it turns out the women inside of her wasn’t the strong feminist icon she always wanted to be. No, she’s nothing but the weak damsel who swoons when she gets saved by a man. She’s the weak willed jobber heroine who gets mind whammied by the villain of the week and moans yes master in a sexy costume. Imagine being Nia Nal and going through the whole process of transition, only to end up as a piece of arm candy in another hero’s journey. That’s hot as fuck

Moving away from the risque topics being discussed. What should her relationship with Dream be like?

>>154199935
Hot.
>>154200038
I'm not as familiar with Dream, but from what I do know, I would say polite and friendly, but never familiar. Dreamer would know that Dream is something far beyond what she can really comprehend. Dreamer would do any favor Dream asks, and may, in desperate times, request one of her own, but she would never demand or press for one.

>>154200759
Yeah I could see that. The Dreamers are meant to be the connection between the Dreaming and she waking world while Dream is the ruler. If anything Nia might effectively be an unofficial priestess of Dream, or official. Can’t remember her species religion

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This thread has been a lot of fun, I hope it's still here when I wake up.

Sweet Dreams, /co/

>>154200848
Sweet dreams anon. Honestly it never fails to astound me how this site can take the most neglected characters in comics and make them incredibly entertaining… and then get horny for them

>>154196441
>>154196472
Melatonin and Good Night work too

>>154200975
That reminds me that Dreamer used to have narcolepsy but then it was retconned away

>>154200848
For a hero named Dreamer she spends far too much time awake

>>154193931
Give her a job as an inception agent who redeems criminals by entering their minds and planting the idea they should be good.

>>154202030
I’m pretty sure what’s basically what Amanda Waller forced her to do on the suicide squad, which she hated because it was shady

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>Read this thread before bed
>proceed to have FOUR sexy dreams in a row of her back to back

I'm sorry, dreamer. I hope you weren't on an important mission.

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>>154202497
Whatever her mission was before doesn’t matter anymore. Now she’s just a mindless piece of ass

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>>154202531
Booty

Apparently in the current run, Nia Nal is burying herself in a villain’s fantasy universe in order to escape from everything she’s been through. And apparently she has a recurring behavior of not wanting to be responsible for herself.
So, succumbing to a dream role imposed by someone else is actually in character and something she might let happen to her

>>154200905
On a serious note, I've been on 4chan longer than I care to admit. I've seen this site go to shit. This is one of the first threads in a while that feels like a good old classic /co/ thread, full of creative (and horny) energy. So, thank you guys.

>>154202777
Welp, time to start reading Dreamer.

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>>154202002
Here she is in a coma

>>154202856
Apparently Nicole Maines is in charge of her right now and just keeps putting her through trauma

>>154202919
Is this the same story where she's inna villain's dream?

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>>154203163
Yup. He’s keeping her distracted with fantasies

>>154202919
>>154203183
Which book is this? It looks like Dreamer doesn't have a solo now that I can find

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>>154203281
Justice League Dream Girls. Dreamer tends to be more of a team up character

>>154202531
Well she got to be the hypnodomme in the last dream, at least. Of course that was my psyche forcing her into the controlling role, so she may not have actually been in control while controlling me... wait, let me get some paper and a pencil, I can figure this out.

>>154203296
Thanks Anon

>>154203330
God imaging losing control to such an extent that she’s forced to control other people. Nothing but a hollow puppet mimicking dominance

>>154203330
What were your dreams anon?

>>154203462
1st dream, I was a bartender. I told her she looked stressed and offered her a drink on the house. She said she didn't really want it, but took it anyway quickly because she needed to talk to me. I gave her another quickly after that, then another, then she fell into a pool of champagne and was happily drunk and sloppy. Whatever she wanted to talk to me about she had forgotten. Then she gave me a smooch.
The second one, I was a hypnotist. It was a pretty similar setup, I told her she was stressed and to look into my eyes and relax. She fell into a trance and I floated her around for a bit before letting her slump into a cozy chair.
Third dream was an extension of the first one, more of her being drunk and happy and sloppy.
Fourth dream, she was a stage hypnotist, said she was finally going to get what she needed out of me, did some catalepsy stuff with me, then said Thanks before balancing me on her finger tip and slipping me into a bed.

After that it was mostly just fragments of the first two dreams again, plus some bits with her and Kaa.

>>154203536
Cute. And definitely fits since Dreamer has a lot to be stressed about. She definitely strikes me as the type to get sloppily drunk and hit on guys

>>154197901
That’s the secret to fixing any woke character
>take woke character
>remove woke writing without completely changing them
>replace woke writing with horny writing
>profit

>>154203566
Yeah! For some reason I fantasize a lot about taking stressed ladies and making them relax and enjoy themselves.

>>154203778
It’s a good fantasy. And with how most modern writers treat heroes, we all know they could use a little mental break

>>154202919
This says she’s a war criminal. With the added changes in this thread, the JLA might put her in leaguer dreams to recondition her to be more heroic

>>154193864
You can’t because them being LgBT is their entire identity. They have are boring by default. They aren’t as interesting or diverse (character wise) as straight people. Because they are just gay.

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>>154203536
Was she by any chance dressed like this

>>154203778
Dream is not a lady tho

>>154203644
So the character has to stop being trans?

>>154204048
>>154204056
It’s DC. If you’re really so bothered by her being trans just write her getting a nanobot or magic treatment

>>154204137
>grooming the victim even harder
Maybe he could detransition

>>154204164
Why are you even in this thread

>>154204177
I'm suggesting hot to fix a trans character

>>154204015
No, she was in her typical outfit. That would've been cute though

>>154197745
>Nia slowly wakes up, feeling groggy
>”ugghh, I uhh, why do I feel so, fuzzy”
>she desperately thinks back to last night, trying to remember what she was doing
>”I had a thing to do right? I was… a mission. Yeah a party dream, and he… he saw me and”
>Nia thinks back to the dream suddenly remembering the man who she was supposed to be collecting information on. How he has looked at her and suddenly all her worries had melted away. How her eyes had been drawn to his face, his eyes… his abs
>”hehehehe… he looked at me and… he was hot”
>Nia’s eyes glaze over as she giggles, drooling a little
>”hehehe, boys are… hot n sexy n… I wanna boyfriend”
>she whines in her ditzy stupor as she reaches out for her phone, scrolling through her contacts
>she sees one, Jonathan Kent. She starts typing
>”Heyyyyyyyyyy”
>she presses send

Give these characters nice normal lives (well as normal as comics can be) and quit trying to make their entire identity based on their sexual preference. Real life doesn't work that way and people know it. As a 62 year old gay man I have never met anyone who's entire ID was based on being gay. It may play a small part, but not the to extremes these clueless writers take it.
As for the transgendered characters it does make an interesting premise to explore, but I never understood why they got lumped into our social group, they're not gay! They simply want to be a different sex. That's not homosexuality. Explore that fact and you have an interesting story line.

>>154193864
Did DC reveal that one of their old and supposedly straight characters has actually been queer all along? That seems to have become their tradition for Pride.

>>154193864
>How do we make them more interesting
Turn them all into bisexuals (they end up marrying the opposite sex)

>>154206016
Dreamer is already into men

>>154204378
Cute!

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They need to dress sluttier

>>154194160
Would be a nice start

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>>154207111
Galaxy already dresses like this

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>>154207566

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>>154195030
maybe she was a real woman untl she grew a penis from a hardcore /d/ futafag's wet dream
or was straight until being violently sodomized by a pedophile, either's good

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>>154193864
What are some good /co/ bisexual characters?

>>154207717
Actually despite being transgender, Nia is canonically straight she was saved by Superman as a child and now lusts after his son

>>154193963
>>154199674
Yeah it's based on the shitty tv costumes

>>154207795
That's called being gay actually.

>>154207798
Any ideas for fixes (don’t say boob window that only works for PG)

>>154193963
something about it screams spiderman altuniverse to me, maybe it's the wavy epaulettes

>>154200848
>Draw a girl
>Call it a boy

>>154207766
Bob Belcher.

>>154202919
The other character in a coma there is also trans

>>154207958
Oh and so is their doctor. Which tranny was writing this that they had to include all of them in one book

>>154207958
Yes, but she is not sleep themed and has a girlfriend

>>154196856
I really like all of these ideas, I’m just curious if they can track onto any currently existing DC characters. Obviously Doctor Destiny exists, and the dream commercials can come from any billionaire, but are there any escapist DC or Wildstorm villains?

>>154206184
Dreamer is a man tho

Is this unironically a "trannyfucker" thread?

>>154209246
It was supposed to be a character workshop, but /co/‘s gonna /co/

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>>154193864
>How do we make them more interesting
I want to see Amercia Chavez be a pillow princes that never gets what she wants because everyone just assumes she's a butch dom because she's a violent idiot. Carol alone can provide what she needs.

>>154209311
Interesting interpretation but why Carol of all people. Don’t they hate each other?

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>>154209518
if the two have had canon interactions I'm unaware of them, but that was kind of what interested me in pairing them up. they conflict because both try to be "alpha bitch", so Chavez can't naturally intimidate her the way she could with a lot of the other, weaker options. If she wants her she has to actually try and charm or seduce her, which is hard because she's a confrontational autist.

I also just like Carol as a dyke because what does she have that's better, fucking Rhodey? Let her dive in some box.

>>154209631
That’s some good reasoning. If I remember correctly, their last canon interaction was slightly positive but before that, Chavez threw a chair at Carol during civil war two.

>>154209730
based
a lot of these characters are treated as entirely different entities depending on who's writing them at any given time anyway, I went with various aspects I could theoretically see them doing in anything. I haven't seen a ton of post-Rivera stuff outside of WCA where she seemed more or less like a blank canvas, but from the little I see her love interests flame out really quick which I think would be a fun point of conflict for her. These relationships are just constantly turning to shit for one reason or another and it's driving her batshit because she can't understand why she's so bad at romance.

>>154207666
Ummm.. why only that one lady's brain. The guy standing next to her is still picketing. Why only the karen's brain?

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>>154209938
It’s a dream fantasy like everything else. The woman is probably based on someone she dislikes outside the dream

>>154207566
>>154207666
not slutty enough. Where's the bulge?

>>154210649
The artist clearly prefers tits

>>154210990
there can be both

>>154210376
She imagines herself as Wonder Woman, Batman, and Constantine. Interesting isn’t it

>>154211166
Not always, especially in personal fantasies

>>154210376
>The tranny has fantasies of killing people he disagree with
lmao, DC got that right

>>154211850
To be fair on her, Batman and Wolverine have those too

Can we go back to coming up with cool ideas about Dreamer? Ideas that don’t involve fucking her

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>>154212231
Well one idea that came from this
>>154203536
And Dream of a Lifetime again, Dreamer's "break glass in case of emergency" measure could be trying to coax the target into entering a new dream. The target MAY forget all that happened since there usually isn't continuoty beteeen dreams, but she can only do it a couple times before risking waking the target up, and it's not guaranteed the target will forget the previous dream.

>>154195732
I mean, going off of that, you could have her go into a dream of someone who was kind of pressured into transitioning (lord knows how often that happens, especially when you notice how much of it is tied to ROGD). They don't actually enjoy being trans even if they're doing it to fit in, and she has to figure out if she's going to help them detransition/desist or just ignore it so she doesn't think too hard on her own transition journey.

It'd be impossible to actually do because of all the trannies who'd be enraged at detransitioning being shown in a positive light and that you *can* be pressured into adopting an identity you don't like even if it's a minority one, but it could be a cool character/introspective study I think.

>>154212462
Interestingly I actually saw a trans person talk about how they hated their own community for demonizing detransition and they preferred the term retransition.
In their words, transition is about personal comfort and someone shouldn’t be treated as a traitor for choosing to be comfortable.
Dreamer never faced any kind of pressure in her gender experience. Her family was supportive right up until her gaining the dream powers confirmed her soul was fully female at which point her sister turned on her for getting them. It would be interesting to see someone who made a choice completely on her own have to emphasize with someone who is being pressured away from choice. It’s also sad that a lot of time the pressure can come from transphobic individuals who want a friend to use as a shield from criticism

>>154212462
Like for another example, someone who transitioned when they were young and became famous off of it--someone like Jazz Jennings or Kim Petras or Hunter Schaefer--someone whose very popularity and identity hinges on them being trans. But secretly, deep inside, they're worried they're not. They keep being told they're a role model for various LGBT kids who are hurting, their parents are kind of pressuring them to keep doing it for money and fame and power. They just have a seed telling them that this is wrong, it's gone too far, but also it's helping so many people and the people they're representing are so badly marginalized, isn't it ok to subordinate their real questions to support those marginalized people? Is it okay to be "ordinary" again when you're used to being extraordinary?

They start hurting themselves, just a bit, just to feel something other than fake. They write dark poems about themselves they burn. They dream about their girl self being a mask in the dark, their "real" selves underaged from the time they started taking hormones. Dreamer has a choice--does she pursue truth no matter how damaging it is for society and the marginalized community targeted by bigotry she wants to protect? Or does she help them cover it up further and speak no more on the topic?

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>>154211766
in my fantasies

>>154212462
I think a better example would be Dreamer talking to a young adult who's wondering if they're trans, and clearing up misconceptions. In a Very Special Episode kinda way.
>Most trans people transition over the course of months or years, and it doesn't typically jump straight away to hormone therapy or surgery.
>If you're wondering, sometimes a good first few steps can be something as simple as shaving body hair or crossdressing. You can also try ordering a coffee and trying out a new name to see how it feels being called that.
>Lots of people don't go beyond that, and that's fine. They try other clothes and feel more comfortable in their birth gender, or they like wearing the clothes but don't feel any desire to go further. You could be nonbinary, genderfluid, or even just a cis person who likes dressing different some times. There's nothing wrong with any of that.
>And while lots of trans people opt for gender surgery, lots of people don't! Lots of trans people prefer to stick with hormone therapy. And that's fine too.
>YOU get to decide who you truly are inside. Your story is unique, and you get to decide what kind of transition journey you have, if you want to have one at all.

>And one more thing... transitioning won't make you into a supermodel. Not without a LOT of surgery. You'll most likely end up looking like your mom or dad. And that's fine too. Afterall, your dad's hot.

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>>154212838
And that's nice and all but trans people historically really loathe detrans people and people who are just gender-divergent and are also extremely creepy and weird about the sex they're trying to costume, so something explicitly calling those folks out would be ideal.

There's absolutely a lot of pressure to be trans and stay trans.

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>>154212875
This person was called ScarletDevil and later either killed themselves or overdosed btw. They couldn't tolerate the botched SRS surgery that left them in agony, which they might have avoided had trans spaces not constantly encouraged positivity around surgical solutions only.

>>154212838
I think this is the best solution to the issue.
>>154212875
>>154213026
As someone who’s friends with a few trans people irl I think this

>>154213188
Pressed the button too fast. I was gonna say that I think this is mostly an online issue. Most people who touch grass are a lot more introspective and understanding

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>>154193949
>As a side effect of this, she's also very vulnerable to mind control.

This post feels prophetic now

>>154213206
If it was only a few randoms online I'd believe you but I do Listen to Trans People in their spaces and they, as well as their advocates, are generally still pretty batshit.

Once they start bringing stuff into real life by sending bomb threats, or making (extremely male) rape threats, or murdering people who misgender them or raping women in female prisons, then I consider it something worth noting.

Being "kind" about it is clearly not working, there's no consistent definition of "transgenderism" as was already acknowledged in the SC case.

>>154213835
I’d like to keep pol shit out of this thread, since it’s supposed to be a character workshop, but I still believe that most of these cases are coming from online echo chambers and don’t represent the vast majority. The main issue is that there’s not as many trans people as it seems, and in small communities bad actors can have louder voices

>>154210376
>>154213623
>Nicole Maines played Dreamer on Supergirl
>gets to write a book
>immediately puts her in a kinky situation
Every damn time. What drives people to do this to characters who are basically them.

>>154213957
If you base a character on someone then let them write that character, don't be surprised when they write in their kinks.

>>154213917#
Honestly my posts are already veering off /co/ discussion already so I'll stop complaining about them after this but your downplaying of it is dumb. There are laws written on this shit that punish folk for being gender critical or trying to build spaces for cis only people in the way trans people build spaces only for trans people. People get hurt because of the ideology. You can't just handwave it as "oh it's just a tiny minority" if the vast majority not only downplays it but continues eagerly supporting everything that comes of it. Trans people are overrepresented in jails for sex crimes (of the rape/molestation sort) btw.

My suggestion remains the same. She gets faced with someone who should probably detransition but is afraid to because their whole life is wrapped up in that identity. It's something that can feel universal instead of being limited only to the trans experience. It can even work with majority identities, although part of it is how defensive that minority identity can become due to outside pressures and stress. The problem, or at least part of the problem, is that this identity is antithetical to what she believes but it's probably what's best for the person she's trying to help. Does she go through with it?

>>154213957#
Porn-brain man, people usually don't dare to to that and post it publicly.

>>154214602
I agree that this scenario would be very interesting, though again I believe it’s something DC would never do because of the delicacy of the politics.

Fundamentally I think that Dreamer being trans is the least interesting part about her. The only way I see it playing into stories is either Waller screwing her over, the JLA grouping her up with other trans heroes in an effort to help, or as a method of manipulation.
I think the manipulation angle is the most interesting for the same reason as shown in Dream Girls.
As porn brained as it sounds, Dreamer would rather live in a fantasy than reality, and wants someone to tell her what to do. She feels guilty for the harm she’s caused and sometimes feels she doesn’t deserve her powers. That’s the most interesting part I think. At her core Dreamer wants great power without great responsibility. She wants to sleep forever

>>154214722
This makes sense with how she reacted to Superboy appearing in her dream. She wants a Prince Charming to come and make everything better and instead of trying to fix things herself she just waits to be saved

>>154212231
No my dick is hard

>>154212698
Damn this would be really hot without the bulge.

>>154216426
so you just want a regular woman?