>Why do fights in Western superhero comic books (mostly by Marvel and DC) have bad choreography? They are often worse than manga (battle shonen).Because Japanese and Asian martial arts put a big emphasis on the visual aspect of martial arts. Many moves in karate and kung fu are for show; they are meant to look pretty, not practical. Thus, they have detailed, complex choreography. In contrast, Western martial arts are more straightforward and don't prolong fights. In battle shonen (but not only), fights can often last more than 10 chapters. In Western superhero comic books (mostly by Marvel and DC), a fight taking more than one issue is very rare.>Why do characters in Western superhero comic books (mostly by Marvel and DC) have very broad powers and use them in very uninspiring ways?Similar to the above, Asian culture is more centered on the visual aspect of fights. Many Asian martial arts have named techniques and have the idea of secret/forbidden techniques. There are also wuxia and xianxia—genres with often specific and abstract powers. So, in manga (battle shonen), powers are like techniques. In Western superhero comic books (mostly by Marvel and DC), powers are often part of physiology. The character is not just a tank, but an inhuman creature. Superman often uses his powers in daily life (e.g., laser eyes to shave).>Why don't Western superhero comic books (mostly by Marvel and DC) have strategy?Again, they want the fight to be rather straightforward. Westerners don't have a culture centered around 1v1 like in Asia. In Asia, there is the 100-man kumite, kung fu dojos have beef with each other, and kung fu movies often have fights with specific rules.
>>154271777OK but what about...Wrestler Hulk
>>154271777It’s much simpler than that. In Asia martial arts are taught in phys ed class and students and trainees are held to a higher standard. The choreography is the application of knowledge and craft skills that most Westerners do not make the effort to learn.
>>154272658>In Asia martial arts are taught in phys ed classReally? That sounds fun.
>>154271777The west should remedy all that.
Choreography? Like in a musical? That sounds fuckin' gay.
>>154274342No, you retard
>>154274342Choreography as in old Hong Kong movies.
>>154271777Because nobody cares about fights, only WINNERS.And there are no WINNERS in SHITnen, only cucks and pre-op trannies.
>>154274546Literally every capeslop character has been cucked at this point because they have 100000 writers lmao.
>>154271777Wrestle comics in general have a bad notion of Space, in the last 20 years.In the last 10 they start to dont care to any power scale, so a weak caracter can just punch a strong one without any cleverness.The lack of fight choreography is a consequence of they dont carring by action in general (some artists stil like parkour for the art at least)
>>154274605>bragging he reads slop characters intentionally cucked by their own creators Glad I don't share your retardation.
>>154274825But that's literally every major capeslop character.
>>154274844No, stop being a fag
>>154274882The comics say something different little bro...
>>154272658Americans do wrestling where the objective is simply to pin the opponent as quickly as possible.
>>154272658All those moves just get your ass beat in a real fight.
>>154274546SOVLnen gave birth to Joe CHADbuki which is based.
>>154274929Tarantino's movies are the prime examples of great choreography and he was literally inspired by japanese cinema and technically even japanese manga. Have you never watched Kill Bill?
>>154274932Nobody cares, soifag
>>154271777Because they got other shit to do and don't want to spend an entire year on one fight where nothing else happens.
>>154271777checked
>>154275657>nd don't want to spend an entire year on one fight where nothing else happens.I am ok with a 1-2 issues fight , if the fight has good choreography and framing which rarely happens in capeshit.
>>154271777how many times are you gonna make this thread?
>>154275978>I am ok with a 1-2 issues fightThe difference is a 2 issue fight in American comics is 40 pages and $12-14 dollars.A 100 page fight scene in manga is, per page count, about $5 out of a $10 volume.
>>154271777You’re a retarded zoomer. It would take pages and pages of nothing but fighting frames.
>>154274929>>154274943Also this scene is based on Bruce's alleged on-set fight with Gene LeBell. A judo practitioner credited for bringing it to the states from Japan.
>SHITnimeBITCH LARPing as his superior>AGAINKWAB!!
>>154276093I see, well it sucks that the format limits it. I would still like to see more movement and dynamic paneling in general in cape comics.
while we're here why arent we allowed to have confess your sins to father hulk threads? every time i make one it gets jannie'd
>>154271777So is the nigger spamming these "hurr durr superhero comics are retarded" threads ironically impersonating the hulkfag who is also a /dbg/shitter, specifically doing it because it annoys him, the hulkfag being also a samefag, or it's just a coincidence?btw it's gay how these "comics suck" or "manga is better" threads usually don't tackle the real problems. It's all surface level crap that ironically end up being excuses for doing some of the shit that killed the industry. It's also very gay how people really try to ignore the good shit, even if it released years ago
>>154276273>years agoTry decades but yes, these are just joke threads and I guess they work because they always get (you)s
>>154276181>no confession threads>shitposting circlejerking threads that eventually become /a/ or /jp/ like this one are allowedI understand why the mod team won't delete similar threads, they need more users. And if they ban and delete, users go away. Even if the content is low quality. /a/ is probably the board with the best moderation, and it's still bad. But in 4chan in general, I don't know why some innocent things are deleted. Worse, when they're very on topic.>>154276296I'm trying to be more positive
>>154271777Smart observarion chadulk!!
>>154275978>>154276109Maybe I am not understanding it properly but aren't comics selling the best among teenagers, which would actually enjoy that? Not to mention that fighting can be used for characterizing and even development, Shigurui would be nothing if the action was as bland and as quick as it in the average comic.
EAST GOOD WEST BAD.>>154276345At this point I've started to think of some of these repeat threads as being like your (autistic) grandpa repeating his favorite story for the 1000th time or an old dog who only remembers how to do one trick for attention.
I don't like the choreography in mangas. It's all black and white anyway, so why bother overcomplicating it with multiple action lines, exaggerated poses, and so on? I would rather read a good story, preferably in color, than go through 20+ pages of a fight that ends up being meaningless because no one ever truly gets defeated in mangas. Only retarded zoomers with their rotten brains can enjoy that crap.
>>154276726Skill issue
>>154276726Style over substance anon
>>154276726>pages of a fight that ends up being meaningless because no one ever truly gets defeated in mangas.Idk what are you even talking about, most fights in manga end with death or defeat. Easy example: Fist of the north star. As for black and white, fights flow better in it without visual clutter which is harder to avoid unless you have a great colorist. >zoomers Most manga readers are and have always been millennials
>>154276767Fights can be substance , I don't want to repeat myself but Shigurui does characterization and symbolism using fights.
>>154276777>Most manga readers areomg lmao!
>>154276791>Fights can be substanceI never said the opposite
>>154276798It's true, zoomers don't read or have money. Millennials are the ones actually buying stuff(not to mention that your argument makes no sense since people have been buying manga since the 90s when zoomers were not eve born)
>>154276441Then just filter the threads.
>>154276726You're the one with the atrophied brain from reading too much capeshit. Anyone who doesn't read both east and west always turns out be a retard or a leftist.
>>154276876Don't repeat yourself
>>154276821You're a millenial right? I would expect your argument from someone in at least his mid 40s. Millenials were the first digital generation. Most entertainment comes from computers and phones. Why would a zoomer buy physical when he can watch videos, buy the digital version, or pirate? Do you still go to GameStop? Zoomers love manga and anime. Thousands of essays on youtube talking about how good they are. Japanese media is designed to trigger their autism. I don't remember when was the last time I watched a +35 year old with a t shirt of some manga. You don't understand how many zoomers I've seen this last week with one. I'm not even trying to defend manga, but they're facts>>154276726That's just one of the triggers I'm talking about
>>154276273a lot of these sorts of threads end up with the same anon (most likely the OP) replying to his own posts and bumping from page 9 for a couple of days
>>154276876>capeshit lol lmao>btw read both east and west guys, you're retarded if you don't Go back to your tadc porn thread hypocritical fag. At best you're here for the non cape comics (not really) or webcomics
>>154277065>I don't remember when was the last time I watched a +35 year old with a t shirt of some manga.You can't really pull off graphic ts past like 30 anyway.
>>154277104>harry_dresden.jpg
>>154276273It is some SHITnime fag who I BTFO multiple times. Unfortunately, I cannot pinpoint exactly who it is because I have BTFO a lot of shitters.
>>154277096Nta but I call it capeshit even though I like some of it, it's just a term.
>>154277065Zoomers are pretty shitty when it comes to pirating, they can't into torrenting for example. I agree that they love manga but acting like millennials don't love it as much or even more it's retarded, especially acting like millennials don't appreciate manga with great action choreography when they've grown up with the best of them. > Thousands of essays on youtube talking about how good they areA lot of youtube essays are done by people in their 30s, zoomer essays are usually shorts and tiktok shit since they can't articulate themselves properly.
>>154277199I know, it's like calling others fags here, but it's not just that
>>154277256>especially acting like millennials don't appreciate manga with great action choreography when they've grown up with the best of them.Anon the first anon didn't say that, we didn't imply it. It's a thing about demographics, and I'm still sure that it's more popular among zoomers>zoomer essays are usually shorts and tiktok shit since they can't articulate themselves properlyDude those get more views
>>154277365>Anon the first anon didn't say that, we didn't imply itAre you serious?> Only retarded zoomers with their rotten brains can enjoy that crap.He literally said that lol. > I'm still sure that it's more popular among zoomersThe 90s/00s manga with the best fighting choreography are not popular among zoomers, they only know very little about non-recent non-sj manga. Yeah tiktok does get more views but those clips don't have the meat of the good video essays made by millennials which can actually explain the pros of manga paneling and action.
>>154276857This. Don’t like it just sage, filter, ignore etc. There are other threads to enjoy.
>>154277407>Only retarded zoomers with their rotten brains can enjoy that crap.>He literally said that lolExactly he said zoomers not millenials. That's what I'm trying to say>>154277256>but acting like millennialsWe're talking about gen z
>>154277561And “ only” is a retarded word in this context considering that a lot of the people that like manga are not zoomers, what’s hard to understand?
>>154271777HulkCHAD...Reading weebSHIT is one thing, but reading chinkSHIT?!What happened...
>>154276150>>154277172Hulkchad-sama..
>>154278048>>154277975I can’t stand spic speak.
>>154271777Why do you all generalize?
>>154274932>DiesAt least Rocky got to live.
>>154278112His own goal is to burn to ash, that’s why it’s such a poignant moment. He wanted to end like that.
>>154278140What a faggot, wanting to end meanwhile Rocky never give up even after losing. What a dogshit lesson.
>>154278151You are too low iq to understand and you’ve probably never read the manga/watched the anime. Joe never gave up either.>lesson Lmao.
>>154278151>Rocky never give upHoly fuck, this board is filled with ESL spics
>>154272781Yeah, in japan you can literally try out for swordfighting club in high school.
>>154278171Joe a faggot, show is too long a boxer story doesn't need to be that long, there's a reason people like Rocky more.>>154278199Projection over typos.
>>154278061then shut up
>>154275978And I'm okay with a few chapters of manga fighting if it ever gets anywhere but nope. Nothing happens. Ever.
>>154272658This
>>154278224>Nothing happens. Ever.Wrong. Read Shigurui.
>>154271777It's all the same shit but no one wants to admit it, they want their thing to feel special.
>>154278216I knew it, you’ve never actually read it. Well your opinion is meaningless.
>>154278273No one but a niche group of weebs have read it when it comes to English speaking counties, more people have likely read the fucking dumb Ultraverse comics then it.
>>154275657I’d rather spend an year on fights than on worthless boring capeshit soap opera
>>154278304I don’t really care, it’s just funny you pretend to know something and people catch you with the lie.
>>154278341isekaishit is the capeshit of lns
A good capeshit fight, is raw, quick and to the point like a real fight. One of my favorites growing up was Azbats vs Bane, no bullshit just two guys going at it back and forth brawling like how it really is, same with DKR's fight with the Mutant Leader.https://rcostation.xyz/Comic/Batman-1940/Issue-500?id=18239#40
>>154278341what fucking endless potential, you spastic fuck?
>>154276726>because no one ever truly gets defeated in mangas.What are you talking about?
>>15427843999% of modern capeslop would go for still images with 0 implied movement, this page actually uses at least some techniques that more comics should use
>>154278439Lot manga lacks that raw quickness because everything so fucking staged and the character plan shit out even though a fight really shouldn't be like that, should be janky and rough.
>>154278492Eh this page doesn’t impress me, I would take any fight in hokuto no ken over it in terms of how rough and visceral they feel. Your earlier examples was better.
>>154278519>Eh this page doesn’t impress meOf course they won't because you're an intentional retard
>>154278492Idk what you are talking about a lot of street fighting mango do the same shit
>>154278535Nie ad hominem but it just doesn’t have the same effect as the page above, the poses look way stiffer.
>>154278519I prefer the quickiness and more street like fighting of western comics, at least older ones, not all manga but lot of manga the fighting very by the numbers hong kong style stuff but it lacks the enjoyment of live action because it's all still drawings so it looks planned out even more so.
>>154278578Yeah but in comics it's draw by people doing who know or seen actual street fighting not people who just watch movies, so the vibe is different, a Japanese person never seen people fight in the ghetto like a New York comic artist.
>>154278656Manga has all kind of fighting, street fighting, martial arts, samurai etc. You have quite a lot to choose from. I love Honk Kong movies myself but I can get a kick from a manga that can replicate the greatness of that with kick ass paneling as for western comics, the street fighting only works for more human characters but a lot of heroes have powers and shit. This page is better than the last but maybe a bit disappointing because I love a lot how the predator tends to fight in the movies. Still nice. Post asterix and obelix and duck comics, that’s where western action is actually good.
>>154271777You don't read comic books or manga, so why should I care?
>>154278741I don’t know if you are joking or not but the japs have a lot of fucking gangs, comparable with italian and american gangs. A lot of gen x japs were in denlinquent groups and shit back high school, even famous ones. Holyland is a manga about street fighting and gang shit
>>154278833Little Japanese high schoolers going at it isn't the same a giant niggas beating the fuck out each other.
>>154278928Are you implying that the fights in american comics are modeled after black infighting? That’s a bit stupid because they tend to shoot each other. The black fights I’ve actually seen captured on camera are nothing like the comic panels posted here.
>>154278519>Eh this page doesn’t impress me, I would take any fight in hokuto no ken over it in terms of how rough and visceral they feelYeah, because you're a zoomer who values "choreography" over meaning. When normal people buy a $4.99 comic book, they don't want 22 pages of choreography; they want 22 pages of story. They want to see the characters evolve from the first page to the last as they acquire new information and experience new things. In turn, the reader evolves with them. In manga, that almost never happens. Manga is only created for school-age kids and salarymen to pass the time while commuting on the train, so they can quickly read the WSJ on the go without paying attention to details, character development, or the story itself, and throw it away when they reach their destination point. Manga is like those airplane movies you watch to avoid falling asleep while flying from NYC to LA or vice versa. You're not supposed to remember any of it; you just watch it to avoid boredom. However, retarded zoomers, especially American zoomers who didn't learn to read or think properly thanks to K-12 and the dumbification of the SAT, decided that manga is some form of high art, and they think that the fact that it doesn't take much time to read a page is somehow an advantage. The real reason why they hate traditional comics is not because modern comics are inherently bad or woke or "lack choreography" or whatever, but simply because comics are to them what Infinite Jest or Ulysses is to most people: you need to activate at least 1% of your brain to read comics, just as you need to activate at least 30% to read Infinite Jest to catch all the cultural references, metafictional elements, etc.
>>154279125That's such a retarded post, what meaning was in that page? Also I am 30 btw. >They want to see the characters evolve from the first page to the last as they acquire new information and experience new things.That's hilarious when most people on this very board argue that comics are just pulps that are there for cheap entertainment and are never meant to end. Let's take my example, Hokuto no ken has characters that evolve and it does explore its themes pretty well in the first part so the rest of your meltdown doesn't even apply and it's hilarious and as for fighting, it can be used to express actual character motivations and show symbolism like I've already said with the biggest example being Shigurui. The rest of your post is bait so I won't even bother.
>>154279125Kakukaku Shikajika was more meaningful than most superhero comics I’ve read
>>154279125>whatever, but simply because comics are to them what Infinite Jest or Ulysses is to most people: you need to activate at least 1% of your brain to read comicsKek, my dude really thinks his garbage shit made for children about good guy beating bad guy number 37235623434776 is anything but brainless slop. People don't buy modern comics as a reason and I am saying this as someone that thinks shonenshit manga is also the same garbage. If you want to shill capeshit, shill the old ones even the capeshit fans prefer retro stuff.
>>154279467>>154279364>>154279358>falling for that shitty bait
>>154276150Seethe & dilate/co/cksucker
>>154278439>>154278492>>154278656>>154278741These are fine, at best. I think the biggest difference between Cape comics and battle Shonen is that fighting itself isn't a focus in the former. Battle Shonen places more on an emphasis on actual fighting, while Cape comics place the focus on action.
>>154278341grim
