>>154279181
Carol is the best and one of the most popular Marvel heroes still, what are you talking about

>>154279302
Go back to your your containment thread

>not in Doomsday
>not in Rivals
>not in Tokon
Carol is dead.

>>154279181
>Is she just unfixable? Should we replace her with Kamala already?
>should we replace an unpopular character with another unpopular character?
No, push characters people actually like.

We all know how to get people to like Carol again, and it's to just retire Kamala and let Carol be Ms Marvel again. Just let her be a cheesecake bimbo in a swimsuit again and people will forget everything they disliked her for pretty quickly.

>>154279394
The only way we get that version of her is if we kill the KSD version and literally bring back pre-captain Carol.

>>154279394
She would make a better CM and you know it

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>>154279810
Forgot Picrel

>>154279810
It would be a sideways move at best. Let the X-Men keep her and make the next Captain Marvel TRVE KREE.

>Carol still selling out huge omnibus runs and is the face of three Avengers runs in a row
Carolhaters stay losing!

>>154280124
>sells out 10 omnibus that were printed
>Carol continues to damage Avengers sales with another relaunch
Sad!

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>>154279341
When will Marvel learn? It seems only Marvel comic writers keeps her in books out of spite atp, she provides nothing

>>154279302
Bad bait

>>154279181
Kamala sells way worse than carol right now, even with the x-men boost

>>154281428
That's pretty bad, considering Carol sales are already thru the floor, is this just a zombie IP?

>>154279394
Even when her main appeal was fanservice, she still had an unpleasant personality. Unfixable.

I think current comic Carol is just .....fine? Like her character mellowed out after Marvel stopped pushing so hard

>>154281457
Carol sells incredibly well though

>>154282033
She doesn't tho

>>154282033
In comparison to what?

>>154279181
>10 years since CW2
>Carol is still hated
she was hate plenty even before that

>>154281428
>even with the x-men boost
is it really a boost I think retconning her into famous X-men stories just drove more people to hate her

>>154282201
Any Marvel hero not named Hulk or Spider-Man

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To this day I can never understand what's going on with the handful of Carolfags on this site. They have a general that has been going on since at least 2014 yet it''s always been a ghost town, they show up any time she appears on page to Stan and they just flat out lie about the character and her sucess.
Is it a long con troll job? Are they actually genuinely this delusional? Is it just a zombie bot set to run indefinitely? A mod's fiefdom? Man I don't know and I doubt I'll ever know since they seem to be immune to breaking kayfabe.

>>154282540
I don't know if it's just some really committed trolls, or some shills Disney paid to create the impression Carol had a massive passionate fandom, and just forgot to give a few of them new assignments to after Carol's movie.

They can't be sincere and as delusional as they pretend to be, can they? The one that keeps insisting Carol should be the new Venom gives it away, it's clearly a bot or a schizo doing a bit and thinking it's funny.

>>154282540
Its kind of insane really, idk what they hope to gain

>>154279181
People hated her before Civil War, is hated after, will be hated going forward for the foreseeable future

>>154282540
Probably some autistic waifufag.

>>154282540
>>154282755
>>154283680
They're in the Marvel Rivals general over on /vg/ too

>>154282540
I would like to know the truth before I die

>>154279181
The thing to do is put carol and kamala into a romantic relationship

It feels like Genis Vell has gained more popularity in recent times than she has with all the stories about Peter David going around after his death.

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>>154284295

>>154279341
Saving her for secret wars and if not. I guess Brie quietly quit.

>>154283961
Not just in I had to make like four OPs in a row because the only other baker took a break.

>>154284424
I think it's less that Brie quit and more that Brie just has no enthusiasm left.

Remember that Captain Marvel is her worst role and overshadowed her Oscar winning one from a year prior, and that she more or less just played the "MOVR OVER BOYS" figure they asked her to for her brand. (Pretty much every irl report of her paints her as being a relatively chill person. Especially in regards to how well she treats wait staff apparently)

>>154284713
I want to believe she was a fungus golem they grew in a lab to play Carol.

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>>154279181
Have Carol become a mentor to Cadet Marvel and then eventually promote him to Captain while Carol gets promoted to General.

>>154284966
>the twist is that Carol's boy sidekick is actually her son Marcus

>>154284374
I forgot how ugly the art of that book is

>>154279181
>Should we replace her with Kamala already?
Oh yeah! Because after her failed game, unwatched television show and the biggest Marvel bomb of all time, I'm sure people are just hungry for more of her! Can't wait to get more! Next time it'll work! Another 200 million game! Another 150 million show! Another 300 million movie! We've spent north of half a billion dollars pushing this goddamn character but by god the next one will finally work! Just one more time I swear one more it'll work one more hundred million dollars it'll work!

>>154279181
Make her Ms.Marvel again, and have Kamala die in a ditch somewhere

>>154279181
Kamala's finished as a character. They threw her to the X-Men abyss so they could never see or speak of her again after all the failed attempts to make her stick.

>>154286572
>have Kamala die in a ditch somewhere
She's in the X-Men. It's all a matter of when.

>>154284713
only an idiot would drop those paychecks, literally one movie would set her up for life.

>>154279181
>>10 years since CW2

didn't the hate start during house of m?

>>154286673
She can't demand the big paychecks after her movie bombed and Captain Marvel as a brand merch wise is in the fucking gutter. Look up how much everyone not Robert Downey Jr got paid for Avengers 1 and you'll get an idea of how little sway she would have in contract negotiations now that they're not certain she would add anything to the tally.

RDJ and Chris Evans KNOW they're draws for Doomsday, and their merch is selling great. They can demand big paychecks. Her? Not so much.

>>154286808
>Look up how much everyone not Robert Downey Jr got paid for Avengers 1
1-3 million, that's a lot stashed into an etf dude.

>>154282540
I work in education: you'd be surprised to know that there are SOME Carol fans out there.

>>154284713
Brie seems like a sweet person. Too bad she got dealt a bad hand by having a poorly written movie and being weird looking.

>>154286881
If you think that's "Set for life" for someone living in California I just don't want to smash your hopes when you find out that it literally will not buy you a 1 bedroom house in a shit neighborhood.

>>154279181
Anything is fixable. But so long as they keep trying to push her as the "Wonder Woman" of Marvel and as a leader of the Avengers... people are still gonna hate on her.
Even at her most beloved, she was not a top dog character. So forcing her on everyone just ends up harboring resentment.
I feel like the immediate post-House of M Carol was the best take of the character. A C-lister trying to become better, striving to reach that ideal version of herself. Still a fuck up, with her history of alcholism and baggage, but pushing forward.
Take her back to that. Stop trying to make her a leader and an inspiration and all this other nonsense. Make her a C/B lister, one of the 'lesser' boys and gals, and then just do basic superheroing while having her eyes on becoming a better person and hero.
Its so fucking easy.

I can't name a single Captain Marvel villain or story.

>>154287030
3 million isn't a lot, for one film, for mostly standing around in her costume, go home elon.

>>154287452
Moonstone and..uhh

>>154286704
She was still flawed then, she's fucking annoying now

>>154279302
on Bizarro World maybe

>>154282320
It was suppose to be. People spent years swearing that the Inhumans and Carol were some anchor around Kamala's neck holding her back.

>>154282755
I think that one is just a transgender fetishist.

>>154287493
>First costumed supervillainy was in Hulk, went through a bunch of people including a different Marvel, plus years quasi-reformed.
>Ends up Carol's enemy because Norman Osborn decides to dress her up as Ms. Marvel.
>Doesn't at all appear during the entire time they push Carol as Captain Marvel, possibly because they realize how superficial it is as an enemy pairing.

Guess it evens out with claiming Mystique and Deathbird are her enemies when they abandoned ship.

>>154292481
I feel like affiliation in general is the problem.
When you are connected to a group, any group, you get their baggage too.
Especially in long running media.

>>154279181
>>Carol is still hated
No she isn't.

You can tell nobody actually likes this character because people only refer to her by her real name and not her super hero name.

>>154293578
And not because there's over a dozen different characters called Captain Marvel?

>>154293487
Yes she is

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>>154293681
There's only 1

>>154287014
>all the Carol fans are the same retarded teachers who can’t add 2+2
makes sense actually

>>154286573
I honestly doubt we’ve seen the last of her. I expect them to find tons of new gimmicks and ways to push her rather than admit a hobby dominated by men in their 20’s and 30’s isn’t interested in stories about Muslim teenagers in New York

>>154287150
They literally need to kill her and then bring back the more superior version of her.

>>154282540
Some waifufags , disney shills and claremontards obsessed with Claremont's waifus(that count with Storm too)

>>154293681
When people say Superman, nobody thinks of John Kent
When people say Spider-man nobody thinks of Miles.

>>154293681
DC still calls there's Shazam in official capacity. Mar-Vell is dead. Monica doesn't use the name anymore. Genis-Vell doesn't use the name anymore. So she should have free claim to the title.
Yet even her fans aren't comfortable with calling her that.

>>154295451
That's my point.
There's already too many characters with that name, and most people associate it either with Billy Batson or maybe Mar-Vell.

>>154293681
DC only time using captain marvel is in the oneshot written by Morrison.
Nobody in DC or Marvel use Captain Marvel but Carol which made people calling her Carol even more sad than Spin situation

>Keeping her in Avengers again
Do they just hate Avengers or something?

>>154296098
Well if they don't want to use Wasp, Black Widow seems to disappear from stories even when she was the leader, and Scarlet Witch is unavailable, then it is her by default.

>>154296098
She's far and away the most successful and popular female Avenger

>>154296369
Maybe in your head

>>154282755
>>154292627
I fucking hate that Carolfag, always ruining Venom threads with their fetishist.

>>154296426
The only ones in the same universe are Wanda and maybe Storm if you count her, and they've never been able to get any traction as solo heroes despite Marvel pushing them hugely

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>>154296317
Man, I would love Wasp on the team instead

>>154297109
Same as Carol

>>154298269
Carol has had multiple 50-issue runs and just sold out a massive print run of an omnibus of one of those runs

>>154298409
>has had multiple 50-issue
>multiple
So you are saying no matter how much she's pushed it fails?

>>154298559
Anon, even Hulk and Spider-Man get renumbered in the modern era.

>>154298574
Difference is Hulk and Spider-Man sell.

>>154298626
Are stores stocking Spider-Man on brand name?

>>154298626
The gap between them and Carol is narrower than between Carol and any other Marvel heroine.

>>154279181
How about Marvel try putting new heroes in the spotlight for once? And I don't mean new legacy characters, I mean new standalone heroes who occupy their own sections of the universe. Marvel is dead now because everything is about continuing the legacy of 50+ year old comics and they can't make anything new.

>>154298959
New characters that don't fail end up absorbed by existing ones or killed off.

>>154293803
>a hobby dominated by men in their 20’s and 30’s
Not a bit or challenge but general interest, do we have any statistics about demographics for comic-books audience? I always thought it was only really old-heads who buy the floppies or visit their LCS. Someone young is at best reading the things online through a subscription, very likely just RCO but they have entire classic runs they can binge.

The youth crowd Marvel covets are put off by the writers as a rule being in their fifties if not sixties. And view the attempts to keep the 'youth' like sooner selling Spider-Man's marriage to the devil than let him mature with more responsibility, as beyond misguided. Just pathetic hail mary appeals from the blind and dumb. I dunno, I'm in my twenties and nothing Brevoorts clique has been something I've ever been fucking thankful for.

>>154293703
Why didn't Marvel just own him though? I mean I am kinda glad they didn't before, but still why?

>>154303964
Because a different company made Captain Marvel.

>>154296098
>Do they just hate Avengers or something?
They're doing some kind of Benis-era New Avengers nostalgia project, that's the era where Marvel were pushing Carol and Spider-Woman as the main girls of the Avengers franchise, over Wasp, Scarlet Witch and Black Widow, so we're getting Carol on the team yet again.

>>154297073
It's awful how often a good or comfy thread gets ruined by one asshole with a fetish.

>>154293578


i also feel a lasting loved costume is also part of what makes a character memorable, danvers suit, hair and body proportions change every 5 months. no one seems to like what came before and always has to change it up a bit.

>>154303964
You mean why didn't Marvel go after Fawcett instead of DC? I don't know

>>154279394
maybe that flew for tasteless cattle gen X but it wont be enough for current and future readers

>>154297109
Regardless of being an Avenger twice now, Storm will always be primarily one of the X-Men, and outside of the 1990s, X-Men solo books that aren't Wolverine or Deadpool don't tend to last long.

As for Wanda, look past the recent push and look at the previous 16 years of Marvel intentionally sabotaging her as a character and repeatedly trying to make people dislike her. Her 2016 solo book only happened because a name value writer wanted to write her and pitched a book, despite her MCU debut, Marvel didn't originally have any plans to do anything with her, and the comics' reaction to her getting more popular in the MCU was to start demonizing her even more in the X-books again. And then the MCU sabotaged her as well, and when the comics finally get told to start pushing her, they don't seem to get what made her popular in the MCU. It's no surprise she's struggling to gain traction, and Marvel keep relaunching her book with the same writer even though it's clear it's not working, but despite all this, Avengers fans still like Wanda more than Carol.

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>>154282540
It's just a few autists obsessed with her.

>>154304623
>the covid hiatus storytime era
Anon...

>>154304588
>but it wont be enough for current and future readers
>current and
>future readers
Great joke, anon.

>>154282540
Low effort contrarian bait and a little racism.

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>>154287452
Marcus Immortus

>>154304726
>Gets 1 appearance
Disapointing.

>>154304747
And it's still far more memorable than everything else in Captain Marvel.

>>154279181
Start by removing the dyke haircut and burqa

>>154304747
She ran into a clone of him later on in Busiek's Avengers and it was great

>>154304769
It's just a ripoff of a 60s horror movie they didn't stick the landing on because they had to rapidly make a new story.

Marvel needs to beg Kelly Thompson to come back, her Captain Marvel volume was Carol's only one to get past 17 issues.

>>154305027
Can't they just get Gail Simone to do it?

>>154305027
Ms. Marvel v2 also went to 50

>>154305088
Ms Marvel is not Captain Marvel, anon

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>>154305113
Ms. Marvel v2 is back when Carol was called that, about a decade before Kamala was even created

>>154305169
Didn't they get rid of her months and have tie-ins to a bunch of events?

>>154305222
She was leading the Avengers, it comes with tie-ins

>>154305169
The point was Captain Marvel is a flop identity for Carol and they keep having to relaunch her in an attempt to push her on readers with Thompson's volume being the only exception to it

>>154305402
Give her a new form where her skin turns blue like the strong ones of her people and her clothes burn off.

>>154305402
Only Wong's run flopped, every other volume did pretty well
The only reason KSD and Stohl didn't hit mid-30s is because of line-wide renumberings

Carol was a cunt the moment they character assassinated her from being the bombshell blonde who embraced her feminine features as a strength. Someone who worked with the Avengers, and didn't blame other people for her problems and groom little girls into her child soldiers. To a buzzcut small chested dyke with resting bitch face, with aspirations of a cruel dictator that vindicated Tony Stark. All because Marvel needed a Wonder Woman stand in, and let the ship be run by lesbian activists who put politics over talent for storytelling.

>>154305494
>every other volume did pretty well

Nah
>Captain Marvel (2012) 4 24,799
>Captain Marvel (2014) 4 24,062
>Captain Marvel (2016) 4 25,156
>Mighty Captain Marvel (2017) 4 17,893

>#4s because sales have usually settled by then and none of them were event/crossover tie ins
>20k was historically marvel's cut off for cancellation

Just amp up Carols bloodthirsty nature to extraterrestrial threats.
Full on Skrull seeking butchery. I've always found it the most intriguing part of her character keeping that under wraps among more peaceable members who would object to her enjoying the sight of Skrulls dying.

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>>154304588
>current and future readers won't like an ass-and-tiddies superwoman in a skintight costume
lolwut

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>>154306155
>She punched a hole through a woman's chest on live TV in the middle of Times Square and got another medal for it
Ah, good times

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>>154306201
Now THIS is some solid characterization.

>>154306281
We got to see her melt Rulk's face off during the savescumming montage a few weeks back

>>154304908
Which movie is that and why isn't it properly adapted into the upcoming Midnight comics?

This is the most active Carol thread and it's about how everyone hates her.

>>154304621
> despite all this, Avengers fans still like Wanda more than Carol
Honestly, I’m not the least bit stumped to see that. For all that Marvel has tried erasing or downplaying Wanda, the girl is incredibly important to the history of the Avengers as a member and friend, her character just fucking oozes drama with little effort just from having Magneto as a dad and Vision as a love-interest, and the level of character assassination she’s survived over the years makes her never-ending “redemption” arc much more believable considering she has had to basically crawl and scrape for every last shred of forgiveness anyone is willing to throw her due to how petty the writers are. Compared to that, Carol Danvers is nothing special. Problems with alcoholism and feelings of inadequacy that she wants to make for is covered by Tony Stark and Hank Pym already, and even at her lowest lately people forgive her super easily. I don’t have a special love for Wanda (I found her character very mopey and self-pitying at points over the years), but I can definitely see why her popularity persists in spite of Marvel’s best efforts.

>>154305748
She really is Marvel's most botched character

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> replace her with Kamala

Like Kamala isn’t currently getting fucked over by mutant bullshit.

They should just bring back Suzie and have her become the new Warbird

>>154309639
Wish she wasn't in her villain phase in the MCU, just have her stay with Clint for god's sake.

>>154280762
they think angry headlines equal sales

>>154310011
That's an incredibly high competition there, but yes I do really think she beats Beast and at least equals MJ under Spoffice.

>>154310951
>under Spoffice
Throw MCU there too. They still keep Zendaya in BND.

>>154296098
We haven't had a real Avengers lineup since Busiek

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>>154305555
Carol has literally always been a cunt. She was written out of the books with Avengers #200 for a reason

>>154303964
>>154304556
Has Marvel ever gone out of its way to purchase other comic company characters to introduce into the mainline? I know DC has done it a bunch like with Plastic Man and the aforementioned Captain Marvel, but the only Marvel example I can think of is Angela from Spawn. And she was more of a lucky accident than anything else.

>>154279302
Dissney implant.

Bring back 1997 carol danvers.

>>154296369
Try to read an avengers book from before 2012 anon. You will learn the truth.

>>154312693
Don't think so. They did acquire Malibu, but that is about the opposite as what you described since the goal was the coloring tech, kept Ultraverse out and instead sent Marvel characters over for crossovers and got rid of it after a few years entirely.

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>>154293703
>>154303964
>>154304197
>>154304556
>>154312693
He's public domain along with most Fawcett, Quality and Charlton characters. Marvel bought Marvel Man but for some reason only known to them they call him Miracle Man.
https://comicbookplus.com/?cid=820
https://comicbookplus.com/?cid=812
https://comicbookplus.com/?cid=837

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>>154293703

>>154313647
Wouldn't that be nice

>>154279181
>>Carol is still hated
Because shes a woman. Bigots hate that.

>>154313662
the best Avengers stories before 2012 have Carol as a prominent character in them

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Just kill off the present one and bring another one from the past they did with Beast

>>154279181
She wasn't popular back then and the conflict is even worse than Civil War 1.

>>154319753
Agree

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shs ms marvel best ms marvel btw

>>154305402
>The point was Captain Marvel is a flop identity for Carol
In some ways it's like Falcon becoming Captain America, Kamala being the new Ms Marvel, or Miles being a second Spider-Man. These things are seen as 'progressive' victories that backtracking on would be such bad PR that they won't do it even though they know they're losing money on them.

They did briefly try reverting Sam back to being the Falcon, but got forced into changing him back to a second Captain America, and those other characters aren't going away no matter how many times they fail.

>>154304623
I miss unique poster number so much bros...

>>154312455
>We haven't had a real Avengers lineup since Busiek
We still had real Avengers lineups until Disassembled.

The second half of Waid's run after Miles, Kamala and Sam left was almost a 'real' Avengers lineup, and the run that just ended was the most "real Avengers lineup' they've had since Disassembled.

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I doubt the character is fixable in the comics but for the MCU I think she is. MCU needs to pair her with Thor. Make the 2 characters be forced to work together on a mission. They have terrible chemistry together so they spend half the movies bickering and shittalking each other. Thor should be allowed to really go in on her instead of just holding up Capt Marvel as an untouchable waman character. Each could probably do the mission solo and beat the bad guy no problem but they work so poorly together that the whole things falls apart. In the end they finally learn to work together just enough to save the day. They learn a little bit about each other and have more of a mutual understanding but still are like oil and water.

>>154318989
In the 70s, as a pre-Ms Marvel normie, she had a small role in the Kree/Skrull War, then in the later years of the decade going into the early 80s, she was around as Ms Marvel for the Korvac Saga and most of the Michelinie run, with her most prominent role being in the Marcus story.

Then she gets written out of comics for over 15 years because she just wasn't that popular, and gets brought back in the Busiek/Perez run, lasting into early in the Johns run, and come back for parts of Benis.

There are huge chunks of Avengers history where she's just not around, Marvel in the 2000s had to literally get rid of Jan and Wanda to try and pretend Carol and Jessica were the main heroines of Avengers.

>>154279394
Carol as Ms. Marvel wasn't particulary successful and a lot of the ill will to character comes from her last era.

>>154325492
Falcon being Captain America long-term is really strange. It lowered his uniqueness from the only Falcon to one of several Captain Americas, and his biggest draw is still flying and bird telepathy. Also the name Captain America has a military flavor that doesn't match him.

>>154325722
At this point if they're going to keep Carol around, the MCU should just take the Superhero Squad route and play her as a bitchy middle management character who shows up occasionally to give orders to the real heroes the stories are actually about, and they just complain about her all the time.

Or actually pair her up with War Machine like in the comics just because seeing Larsen and Cheadle try to act like they're in love will be hilariously awkward.

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>>154325823
>There are huge chunks of Avengers history where she's just not around
Yeah, the bad parts of Avengers history.

>>154325939
Sternvengers though

>>154319753
I love this design because it's just the best of her old and new Ms. Marvel costumes.

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>>154309639
>>154310440
Carol got her own solo book back in the 70s, and again repeatedly in the 2000s and 2010s, the era the MCU has speedrun towards adapting, and she has the company name in both of her heroine identities, so she's seen as a priority to the company, all of which led to them trying to reinvent her into a Wonder Woman-tier "main female character of the company".

In contrast, no matter how important or popular Wanda is within Avengers, most of her history was in being a team book character, and most of the small amount of material she'd headlined pre-2015 was largely shared with Vision, a pairing Marvel editorial appears to have entrenched generational levels of opposition to on a similar level to Spider-Man/MJ. No matter how much Avengers fans liked her, no matter how important she was to that book, internally Marvel considered her expendable, and unimportant enough that they could just turn her into a crazy villain in someone else's story, and do it again in the MCU because it didn't matter if it was good or popular, people had heard of it. It doesn't help that even though she only appeared in a tiny number of X-Men comics, to a lot of them this will always take priority over her decades in Avengers, and they just can't or won't see past Magneto, a character who has a lot of fans and apologists within Marvel, it's not likely to change until the current generation of writers and editors is replaced by people who grew up on the MCU, much the same as the comics' problem with wanting Avengers to be an 'all star' comic ever since the Bendis era, and neglecting a lot of the pre-Bendis Avengers despite the MCU making them stars.

>>154325976
That Carolfag is either doing a bit again, or genuinely believes most of the Roy Thomas era, plus Lee, Englehart, Stern, Simonson, Byrne, Hama, Harras, Heroes Reborn and all of West Coast Avengers, all of it was worse than Avengers #200 because that had Carol in it.

>>154312524
Fuck this character

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>>154312524
Based Carol calling out the chuds

>>154328196
>and then she got drunk on Kree alcohol, injured Lockjaw and the Avengers kicked her out
>then she got drunk again and caused a plane crash
>Then she got horny for new iteration of Marcus