>They are all just programs
This ruins the story.
When they spawn in, the imagery is very clear that their "soul" has entered the circus. They are certain that they are continuations of the people getting the brain scan, not brand a new consciousness. It goes from genuine horror to... literally a bunch of code pretending to be people. There is no insinuation that the code has its own consciousness either because despite finding out about this, they end up just returning to trying to solve each others' problems as if they were real people.
Kinger telling pomni how she is strong and took the digital transition well makes zero sense in this context, nor does it make any sense to solve for jax.
>Abstractions make no sense
It also makes abstraction, an extremely impactful analog to suicide, the idea that someone has become uncontrollable by kane, because they lost their mind feel... so meaningless and boring.
If it is all just software and mind files, it should be trivially easy to fix abstractions. Kinger said the files are relatively small, and kane obviously can fix abstracted part of characters. It does not really make sense that abstractions are the way they are. It feels like the director created the settings for a mystery without actually thinking through what the story even is.
>Zero impact from the realization that they are software
"Your little crying face left quite a little crying mark on the internet"
One of the reasons episode 1 and 2 are so good is because of how real the reactions pomni has feel. Her character feels so human. She gazes in horror, she freaks out, she does not tolerate the cartoony behavior that the broken in characters have aquired.
The realization that she herself is not even real, should have sent her spiraling. It should have had the whole cast freaking out.
Instead, it just becomes a weird crying montage where they instantly opt to rebuild the circus.

>Kane makes no sense
Most of the series communicated really strongly that kane had an understanding that he was dealing with irreplacable sentient beings, that there was a multi layer situation to be solved, and there is a genuine danger that the cast will find their way out of the circus. None of this lines up at all with anything that happened in the last three or so episodes. Why did Kane not just tell them that they are his programs? It would have made things a lot easier for him. Also, if they are just programs how do they have any sort of edit permission? This is so poorly thought out.
Was the blue AI an attempt to paint scratch as the bad guy? That makes no real sense either. The whole Kubrick segment where Kane is trying to redeem himself made zero sense either, nor does the fact that he survived.
>Nonsensicle attempt to try and make the work look smarter by adding eva/anno elements without understanding why they even work in the first place
>Watching their real selves on twitter
why... would they care? Even if they are conscious, and not just software acting like people, they just realized that they could be themselves instead of worrying about going outside, why would they care about the real world counterparts?

>Why the hell western writing makes casts of unlikable characters?
I feel like it is really common in the west to write terrible characters. An entire cast where I would not want to spend a second in their company. An extremely common complaint about anime from western fans is that the character is just a bishonen surrounded by cute girls... Even in the most generic forms of that, at least the characters are young, pretty, have aspirations, and are trying their best. The more this work went on, the more miserable it was to bare with the cast. Difficult, complex, interesting characters are wonderful. Eizouken does this really well. The characters are super rough around the edges, often do not see eye to eye, the stagnation of the town is seeping in to their lives, none of them has moe or protagonist energy, but, it ends up coming together really well.
Zooble is just a bad person, she is rude, mean, and chooses to take everything as an insult, yet pretends to be a saint who is stands up for the little guy.
Ragatha is really gross. She is two faced and tries to assert superiority over others by pretending to help, and then gets offended and freaks out when others do not take kindly to her obvious plays.
Kinger is either in wacky mode, or in dad mode, but in dad mode he refuses to tell them important pieces of information that would really help them down the line.
Gangle's personality is veing a victim. Her drawings are just escapism. She takes any compliment to her art as bullying, and takes every bit of babying as a completion of her escapism, and if she had a choice, she enjoys being manipulative.
Pomni starts off as subtle, but becomes someone who "just wants to talk about it". She treats people like objects to be solved, and in the end, she is not there for them when she is actually needed.

Jax is whatever the director feels like fits a message against toxic masculinity. Sometimes he is the "life is a joke" type of asshole. Sometimes, he is secretly an owo soft boy who puts up a tough front but actually "just needs a hug". Sometimes he is a smartass that talks like a redditor, he has to be in the wrong though, because
>The director is a dishonest writer, trying to reach a conclusion based on a message they want heard
I have not researched the director. I know they are trans because the staff call them she, but they sound like a dude when talking to chris oneil. No issue with trans, which is important to state because it is easy to just say the next part is just anti lgbt.
This director is really trying to affirm something about their world view that goes against their own logic and the logic of the world they built up, which feels off and sticks out like a sore thumb.
Ragatha is a really bad person, and she gets called out on that, but the series realizes that it would mean jax is right, so the rest of the work goes to puppying her and validating her awful two faced behavior.
The series yaas queen's zooble so much that it genuinely feels like she is the worst mary sue I have encountered in a loooong time. The director has a weird fascination with jax, and proving jax wrong, but jax is the only one that is characterized to actually give a damn and try to engage with the hobbies and interests of the characters. The suggestion box part is really interesting. Zooble clearly has an issue with any display of masculinity, and constantly tries to makes jax more effeminate, as well as completely clap back at him for saying the bar stuff is so like them, even though it would have been a complimnet if LITERALLY ANY OTHER CHARACTER MADE THAT REMARK.

FIY, I hate jax. He feels like corkus from berserk. No matter how you look at it though, jax ends up sticking out as saner and usually antagonized by the cast. The incompleteness of the world view of the director leaves a gash in the story where it is painfully obvious that you are reading someone struggling to affirm a belief.
Why is gangles so sure that zooble was impacting them positively?
Their only interaction was "standing up to the big bad bully". Why is the awful shit ragatha did fine?
The attempt to say something about positivity and "fixing" toxic masculinity feels almost comedic in how badly it is implemented.
Why the hell are they trying to "fix" jax by doing the very things that obviously cause him trauma, EVEN AFTER they learn that they do?!

This is such a dumpster fire. What a waste of a cool setup.

Also, forgot to say, zero urgency finding out their whole existance is on a computer in a forgotten office that has been running somewhere since the 90s. This ending was dumb.

I don't have anything to add but just wanted to let you know I read all of your posts and appreciated them.

Troons can't write anything that isn't an allegory for trooning out and mental illness.

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>>154292782
Appreciated.
I needed a sanity check after watching that.

>>154292602
>the imagery is very clear that their "soul" has entered the circus.
Nothing you say is worth reading past this.

>>154292602
Your first paragraph here already has a lot of issues with asserting that things make zero sense, rather than just saying that you're confused by it, and the fact that you've typed up several huge paragraphs and ejaculated them out makes it clear that you'd be very hard to interact with, which is a shame.

Fuck OFF to the dedicated circusfuck thread and stop shitting up the catalogue with your stupid bullshit

The whole series is gooseworx vomiting his mental illness and struggles with being a tranny onto a screen. Every single character is an admitted aspect of himself, especially Jax. He's even outright said that Jax is everything he recognizes is wrong with him and everything hates about himself and that's why Jax suffers more than any other character and effectively commits suicide. Jax is gooseworx torturing himself. The whole series is self-flagellation because gooseworx is too much of a pussy faggot to just suck buckshot.

I have to disagree about Jax. He's always been a massive shit head throughout the rest of the show. I do agree with you though that the casts inability to engage with the adventures, up until the end where Kane becomes more accommodating was annoying.
>The director has a weird fascination with jax, and proving jax wrong
This is because Jax is Goose's self insert. Don't want to get into it because this has already killed discussion on the show, though.

Absolutely based, best and only good TADC thread on the catalog; I agree with literally every point you made and have been thinking about the same criticisms.

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Guys the secret alternate ending just dropped.

>>154292821
Nah, the Matrix is fine and its creators are trans.
They actually straight up mock the fact people thought it was a trans allegory in the 4th movie.
Also, this issue of an incomplete self validating world is visible with media that has nothing to do with trans either.
I really hate My Hero Academia because of how much mental gymnastic it does to validate the "underdog who geeks out and becomes one of his heroes that way"

>>154292671

The fact that you have referenced Berserk immediately gives your words more credence.

>>154292950
>Nah, the Matrix is fine and its creators are trans.
But now the blue pilled/red pilled meme is so much funnier.

>>154292950

Allow me to fix it:

Millennial and Gen Z Troons can't write anything that isn't an allegory for trooning out and mental illness.

>>154292950
They weren't trans when the first matrix was made, right?

>>154292915
Sorry, anon, I know it sucks when a show floods a board, but this is the finale of an indie cartoon that has found such worldwide success that is has over a billion views spread across just 9 episodes. This is a landmark event. Would have been nice if it stuck the landing...
>>154292929
cheers anon
>>154292942
/tv/ has done it again.

Guys, the Wachowskis transitioned decades after making the Matrix.

>>154293026
Right

>>154292889
>>154292870
>the show/writers/directors told you 'actually show is about X thing and was always about this and was always like this' therefore you have to just believe it and repeat it even though the show was literally not like this before and went out of its way to do Y things earlier on
lolno
it's blatantly obvious the story was not actually planned out and was being made up as it went along, especially in response to fan criticisms and wishes i.e. pandering
it is so blatantly obvious that the premise initially really is that they are real people trapped in a game world, SAO-style, and that trying to escape will factor into it somehow - otherwise episode 1 would not have dedicated most of its runtime to Pomni literally trying to escape and likewise none of the ways the cast arriving there and how they talk about it and how the show even scores certain scenes etc in regards to them thinking they are real people trapped there makes any sense in light of the ending reveal, as the OP anon pointed out

likewise, it is also really obvious that the whole business with Jax's character later on was not planned at the start either and him being trans or whatever was cobbled on at the end, additionally, as the OP anon said, there is literally no way you can say that Jax was wrong or did anything wrong in light of the reveal that he was right all along and none of it, even the cast themselves, are actually physically real
>b-buh you're missing the point, it was ackshually a character study all along, it was always a therapy show for millenials and about just standing around expositioning feelings, we were always at war with Eastasia
saying this still doesn't erase the critcisms no matter how much you repeat it. Everybody can remember the earlier episodes and rewatch them at any moment and see that it was not always like the last episode and all the unresolved plot threads and plot holes still stand, you can't just brush them away just because of muh themes

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>>154292968
Miura and his work will forever stay in my heart.
By the way, a lot of people don't know this, but the manga "Nausicaa of the valley of the wind" by Hayao miyazaki seemed to have inspired berserk in a lot of ways, it is proper dark fantasy too, I highly recommend checking it out for any berserk fan.

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>>154292589
I’m honestly surprised you didn’t see this coming. People predicted the ending months before, even before the leaks came out. It kinda says something about yourself on why you decided to stick with the show til the bitter end.

>>154292641
>Eizouken does this really well. The characters are super rough around the edges, often do not see eye to eye, the stagnation of the town is seeping in to their lives, none of them has moe or protagonist energy, but, it ends up coming together really well.
Actually pretty good comparison

>>154292925
Oh, I was wondering of this anon >>154292923 was being sincere or not. I do not want to get too much into drama or the director as a person, but that is interesting that that was the direction all along.

>>154293092
I think Jax being trans was probably planned, but only because Goose is narcissistic.

>>154292589
I bet the final view count will be 150M
If Glitch wants to exploit this finale I can see them uploading the Last Act as a bonus once EP 9's views plateu.

>>154293092
The story is fucking obvious from the beginning if you aren't a fucking retard. "Oh no I put a headset on, now I'm in the game world, and I can't get the headset off. Luckily I came here with other people and they'll help me! Wait, why aren't they helping me???"
>You: I guess all the friends were murdered and pomni got sucked into the digital world like Michael Jordan in Space Jam.
Like, really, who the fuck is shocked by this ending from a logical standpoint. It's fucking baffling.

>>154293037
>trannoid drivel is a landmark event
You have to be 18 to post on here

>>154293173
He's not being sincere, because its rage bait. But it only works as rage bait because its what happened. You should avoid all discussion about Tadc from here on out because Goose's writing decisions have completely destroyed all potential discussion on it from here on out.

>>154292942
>Ending literally copied the shitty Rebuild Evangelion movies
Hahahaha

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>>154292923
>>154292925
The weirdest thing to me about the finale… well, one of the weirdest things. There were quite a few. It felt like they were obviously building up to rescuing Jax from abstraction and his own mental prison. Pomni tries, then the others rescue her and say “you don’t have to do this alone.”
Caine says something about helping, and they make it seem like they have a plan for Jax, but then instead, I guess the plan is just leaving him in a blanket fort for all eternity.
There’s repeated imagery throughout the show of someone falling into the dark, as a visual representation of abstracting, and being caught by the others.
It felt like Pomni alone was getting through to Jax, but then he… steps on some flash grenades, and that’s it?
Just bizarre to have everything feel like it’s building toward rescuing the person, and then just say ‘nah, nevermind.’
And then after devoting so much time to it, nobody really seems to care that much.
Just like nobody seemed to really care that much that they’re just programs. Blink and you could miss the reveal.
And the biggest thing that ever happened was Caine dying, and it’s just undone without explanation.
And I guess Abel, the blue orb, was the evil one. But it’s not a sentient being on its own? It just sails away never to return?
Some truly bizarre choices, but Jax being left to his fate is especially strange.

>>154293155
This is probably bait but,
Even if it was always planned to be that they are pure software, the fact they took months of freaking out to adjust to the digital circus but kind of instantly accepted not being real, makes this a really weak landing.
The fact jax abstracted anyways and they spent the rest of the time talking about unresolved real world issues makes no sense either. Nor is the fact nobody is panicking over the fact their lives are on an abandoned, dying computer.
Even if this is the intended plot, the execution is awful.

I was kind of hoping that they'd end up being able to bring everyone back given that they seemed to go for the happiest ending possible, but eeeh you never know I guess.

>>154293252
I see.
I will probably do that, but I am enjoying reflecting on the series even if it ended up being a dissappontment.

Why do people who say "Kane" always have the worst understandings and opinions lol

>>154293290
As an anon above has stated, none of this was preplanned. Goose made all of this up as he went along, even by his own admission deliberately sabotaging the ending because his own fans annoyed him.

>>154293254
I agree.
None of that made sense.
Caine's redemption just feels like an attempt to include kubrick imagery
That "rescuing someone from their own mind" just feels like an attempt to include evangelion imagery.
But without the contexts of the original works, it just feels like a really bad fan fiction.

Also, I have been writing Kane this whole time, Dammit.

>>154293254
>It felt like they were obviously building up to rescuing Jax from abstraction and his own mental prison
>but then instead, I guess the plan is just leaving him in a blanket fort for all eternity
>Jax being left to his fate is especially strange
this is one of the things that bothers me the most about the ending too, maybe even moreso than the 'Jax was right (but we're still gonna act like he did anything wrong and was karmically punished by the plot anyway) none of it is really real' thing
the fact that the show devolves into spending so much time apparently setting up near-Christian themes of forgiveness and redemption (and even toys with Christian and Gnostic Christian imagery, naming conventions e.g. Cain and Abel, aesthetics etc) the whole time only to nope out at the last second and have Jax be unsaved - despite it turning out they are literally just data and that Caine should just be able to edit+undo the abstraction - is just so weird. It's like the show is forcing a 'life just sucks and you have to live with it and some people just can't be saved and deserve the consequences of their actions and you have to grimly accept it' theme just because the writer/director hates Jax for weird personal psyche reasons EVEN THOUGH IN-UNIVERSE BY THE STORY'S OWN LOGIC, JAX WAS LITERALLY RIGHT AND DID NOTHING WRONG SO WTF

the whole thing is just ad-libbed, contradictory nonsense and the ending makes the whole show retroactively fall apart like a jenga tower

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>>154293290
>Nor is the fact nobody is panicking over the fact their lives are on an abandoned, dying computer.
I think the finale could've landed a lot better if it was split into at least three different episodes.
>The first episode is when everybody finds out that they're digital copies. They all freak out, understandably, until one of them stumbles across the Internet and uses it to look up their IRL selves. They all take turns seeing how they're doing IRL and come to some level of peace with it except for Jax, who adamantly refuses to do so, mocking everybody else for even caring before fucking off.
>The second episode is Jax abstracting. Instead of just Pomni opting to deal with him, she convinces everybody to try to do something for him because Caine had never tried to fix an abstraction before. Episode plays out like usual, but instead everybody gets to explore Jax's mindscape. They still fail to save him though.
>The third and final episode is Caine travelling through the void and discovering the internet himself. Armed with a better understanding of humans, he decides to travel back to the Circus and make amends with the humans by doing his best to try to unabstract everybody. This effort is enough for the cast to tentatively accept Caine back into their lives.
>Ending plays out like normal, except for a post-credits scene where Caine hollers out excitedly that he got it to work and Pomni and Kinger rush into the aquarium to check it out.

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TLDR, can your boy get a synopsis of Shingi's ramblings over here?

>>154292589
>no matter how I look at this, this ending does not match the story at all
It genuinely feels like Goose lost the thread of what they were writing.

Even if everything's written as they're going, you'd have some kind of central idea in your head on how to finish a story and why you put out the plot points you did, even if you're not fully consciously aware of it.
It doesn't feel like suddenly just missing ideas, it feels like whatever they originally planned to write was just dropped. With how they obviously turned against their fanbase, I am ready to believe they did it on purpose, and whether trans Jax was planned from the start or not to be some major plot point, it would work as a shield against criticisms about making the ending shit on purpose.

>>154293442
The themes of redemption and forgiveness were fulfilled with Caine, not Jax. Look, even analyzing it through a Christian lens (like come on, Goose is trans and obviously knows nothing about Christianity) Jax killing himself would be denying himself of any possible redemption.
Which is actually a major piece of Christian theology. Caine choosing to go on is why he gets redemption, Jax ending it is why he doesn't.

>>154293478
Goose is a hack that is not beating the "Modern animation are just therapy sessions" allegations and the ending sucked because of it.

What is it about shows nowadays and being completely unable to stick the landing? I can't think of a single show that's come out in the past ten or so years that doesn't trip and shit its pants in the end.

>Jax finds out that he was right all along; they aren't real people and nothing matters
>this means he knows that none of his 'bad' behavior had any actual impact or consequence at all, he and they really are just cartoon characters and anyone who abstracted like Ribbit did so because of their own self-inflicted delusions of thinking they were real and that anything mattered therefore it wasn't Jax's fault - and also the abstraction can likely be undone at any point since they're just code
>he also knws this obviously means his pre-Circus memories aren't real either; he was never the gender-confused Leeroy nor did he ever shove his mom or anything else, he really has always just been the funny rabbit man
explain why Jax even abstracts after finding this out and isn't completely at peace and joyful after finding out this information without coping

>>154293442
>despite it turning out they are literally just data and that Caine should just be able to edit+undo the abstraction
It literally shows that the people inside the abstractions are intact, that caine can fix abstraction issues, and that they are not actual minds but folders he can double click and do what he wants with.
What is the point of not fixing everyone and paving a new path rather than just... keeping it a circus.
So upsetting.
Episode 1 and 2 are so cool. The beginning of a mystery of navigating a situation where nobody knows what is real or not, but it seems like there is some sort of an exit. Just a couple of weeks ago I was watching the series over and over in anticipation for the finale.

>>154293455
Yeah, that works out.
This was a well supported show, so it makes no real sense that they had to rush it or get it over woth, it is literally the most successful indie cartoon in recent memory.

>>154293442
>the writer/director hates Jax for weird personal psyche reasons
Yeah. Even Caine, who literally tortured them all, was easily redeemed.
I guess it’s not too surprising, if the creator has said Jax represents the worst parts of himself.
But even in-universe
>had by far the most traumatic backstory
>is the youngest by far
>had to deal with the psychological agony of never knowing if you killed your own mother, while also dealing with the psychological agony of being trapped forever in a computer program
Yeah, no shit he handled things poorly. He had good reasons.

>>154293555
Inflated egos and prioritizing self-serving compliments over narrative coherence.
Don't be surprised that years down the line after the honeymoon phase is over people will start doing "Why TADC's ending was wasted potential" type of video essays and then blame the fans or something because criticizing Goose is off-limits to them.

>>154293455
Much better than what we got.

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>>154293517
Gotcha, thanks. Don't see why he couldn't vent his frustrations on one of the other 30 threads though.

Anyone who would kill themselves over being a clone or a copy of their original self is weak.Plain and simple.

Literally all they needed to add to make the ending satisfactory is show them working on curing abstraction. Putting them in blanket forts and dark aquariums is just a comfier version of the basement method of sweeping it under the carpet. They have no other goal now that escape is not an option, so that should be the priority.

>but it’s suicide
Thats clearly what it’s supposed to be, but the fact is that it just isn’t. They leave scared rampaging monsters but those can be calmed and even have others go inside to talk to their inner body. They cause a glitching effect when touching others that only Caine can fix, only now Caine has passed on this ability to the others. Even if it’s a fruitless effort, they should at least be trying now. Hell, Caine survived being fucking deleted, the others can surely deal with some corrupted files.

It doesn’t even need to actually solve it by the end. Just show progress with Jax’s abstraction taking on more of a bunny shape, or have Kinger reach into Queenie’s mind to sit and talk with her again, or even just them stood around a whiteboard trying to understand - hell, swap that mural scene of them all with that instead. Just anything to show them making actual progress.

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So basically Jax's mom was right. Any man who shows weakness is not a man at all. Only women are weak. Men are strong. Thank you Mommy Jax for teaching youngsters everywhere this valuable lesson.

>>154293511
I think malicious or not, you could tell the director has an inner conflict, and this dishonesty ends up being very very loud.
It also feels a bit like the type of amateur stories where someone starts with a setting, and just keeps writing without referring back to what they wrote.
It is honestly really hard to keep a long work cohesive, but this feels like an especially bad example of that, especially when the point is to have a multi layered mystery. Does not work when the author does not know what the mystery is.

Yeah we know

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Ending should have been pic

>>154293571
Yup.
That reveal did not fit anything that came before or after in the story.
Also, if he would have shut down the circus it would have literally killed everyone (if there is even a semblence of them being conscious and not just... literal game characters acting according to their code, which makes the story a lot lamer)

>>154293689
Yeah, if they went around and fixed everyone, and realized that this is their new reality and they can make it what they want it to be, it would have at least have some merit even if it did betray earlier themes.

>>154293571
I do think it would've been more interesting if Jax became an outright sociopath for the finale and took on a more antagonistic slasher type role. It would've been a lot more interesting than one last therapy session for the road.

I think Caine didn't cure Jax or the other abstracted characters out of respect. Ultimately, his character arc was about understanding the AIs generated from the memories of real people and realizing that his actions caused the AIs to sink deeper into their personal miseries, unlike their real-life counterparts, who found a solution to their problems on their own. Since returning to the real world was impossible, Ponmi and the others decided to accept their new identities and naturally live with them, dealing with and overcoming their past mistakes, something that would have been impossible if Caine had played God by reviving the rest of the cast once again.
However, I understand why so many people are upset. For anyone, the idea of accepting and befriending an omnipotent being without asking him to heal your loved ones seems strange.

>>154293709
I can not believe the real ending they chose as a sweet sendoff to the real people was living the minimum wage american dream in the 2010s.
Jax is probably back to being homeless after sending 4000 job apps, and zooble lost her bar in covid.

>>154293829
It's annoying that the movie poster made it look like he'd be a villain and everyone else is stuck in his world. But no, he's just a sad uwu girl.

>>154293849
But it seemed like there was a mutual desire for jax to break out of his shell and for pomni to save him in the end, and the cast were the ones that said no.
Also, this means he could have just fixed up the abstracted humans at any point in time before and just chose not to, which opens up a whole new can of worms of inconsistant writing.

>>154293811
The question is whether Caina and Kinger can save the abstracted characters or if they would have to create a new copy to do so. If the latter, it’s not worth it. Even if they had the same personality and memories, they’d still be copies. Yes, I know all the characters are just code, but they’ve clearly developed self-awareness beyond their human counterparts. They want to feel as human as possible.

>>154293455
This would've been peak and would've solved most of the issues I had with the finale

>>154293912
The movie poster just looks like an evangelion parody.
Just jax and pomni sad on a chair in abstract land.

>>154293942
>End of Evangelion poster
>Akira bike slide
>Jojo pose
THE SAME 3 REFERENCES
https://youtu.be/U_0XuGUri9U

>>154293849
That would be all well and good, except two episodes prior implies that abstractions were caused by Caine fucking with memories too much. It then becomes unclear who was a suicide to respect and who was a victim of Caine going mad with power that he needs to make right. Even Jax really only started to show signs of abstraction in the episode after Caine fucked with Jax’s mind to make him a vegan and put him in a dress, and Caine’s full villain episode shows that he IS fully aware of the mental weaknesses to exploit as punishment.

Jax is alive in the movie release. Sorry YouTube Onlys!

>>154293849
I mean, the cast blatantly says they are going to take care of Jax by themselves and don't want Caine to magic cure him.

>>154293942
The cinema poster was the other five stuck in a twisted house made of Jax heads

>>154293925
Did they develop self awareness?
They just went into "fixing their real world past" mode despite finding out that they are software. Unlike with the imagery on Caine, there is no clear imagery really proving that these characters are anything but scripts acting out their roles after the reveal that they are software. It was executed really poorly.
Also, the fact pomni can go in and interact with jax inside the abstraction makes it feel like it should be trivial to save them.

>>154293964
I miss episode 8. Probably the only truly good episode in the entire show. Felt like there was an actual payoff and stakes. Shame 9 couldn't follow up

>>154293964
The episode had the characters accusing Caine of doing it, but the show never confirmed he really was the one causing abstractions. We now have the revelation that emotional turmoil can cause them, and considering that everything they said in the finale ties directly to what Kinger said about his wife's situation in the Manor episode I think it's pretty clear the emotional aspect was always going to be the big focus and not the paranoia over what Caine did or didn't.

>>154293978
Ah, nevermind, thought of the thumbnail.
>>154293961
pfft.
They just can't help themselves

>>154293942
You're thinking of the YT thumbnail. I'm talking about the poster made for The Last Act.

>>154293977
That's not what Caine meant. When he asked if they wanted him to deal with Jax, he meant do they want him to shove Jax in the cellar.

>>154293912
I was expecting he'd be the villain too, and the direction they took was extremely dull. Its just pure narcissism. For all the issues with Caine's portion of episode 9, its at least more than a therapy session. Something happens.

>>154293918
That's true. I also felt that the rest of the cast wanted to help Ponmi rescue Jax. However, that idea was dismissed in favor of simply keeping Jax safe. With Caine’s help and the new skills they learned from Kinger, rescuing Jax and the others would have been easier (especially the others, who might have been more cooperative when the time came).

>>154294166
The funny thing is you guys are better writers than goose, because a bittersweet ending where they accept that they are just software but hope to one day free the abstracted and rebuild would have been way better.

>>154293571
Jax's belief that they're all cartoon archetypes is why he abstracted. Abstracting something means to simplify it by stripping away all of the details, like trying to reduce a complex human being with depth and layers to a flat archetype like "the funny one" or "the sad one".

>>154294207
That does not really make much sense.
Rags has never once been on the brink of losing it even though she completely accepts her role as a cartoon doll that is means to cheer others up.
Also, kofmo abstracted because he was clinging on to the idea of going back to being human and finding an exit.

>>154294340
And Ribbit abstracted because of her falling out with Jax, and Scratch abstracted because of Caine's tinkering. Maybe the exact process of abstraction and what triggers it is different for everyone who undergoes it because they all have different underlying issues.

>>154294409
I think it was just meant to be an analogy for killing themselves and the director did not put enough thought into the exact mechanism.

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Imagine fumbling a girl that looks at you like this

>>154294501
It can't be an analogy for killing yourself considering it happened to people who were going crazy in a manic and active way instead of sad-sack behaviour like Kaufmo.

>>154294599
>It can't be an analogy for killing yourself
Abstraction is an analogy for suicide. Goose has stated as such.

>>154293571
Jax burned every bridge he had and believed the one he had with Pomni was on shaky grounds already. You're asking for sensible behaviour from someone very deranged and with a very bad personality.

>>154294644
Post proof of Goose stating it as such, if you please. You got that in hand, right?

>>154292625
>Also, if they are just programs how do they have any sort of edit permission?
Giving programs write permissions certainly isn't unprecedented, but you generally want to be very careful about what programs you give that permission to, and the only real reason for a program to have that is if it's automated administration of a system, a database, etc.. Giving that permission to random programs generated/written by yet another program should've raised concerns from whoever's in charge of cybersecurity.
The only reason the circus members should be able to do what they did is if Caine allowed it, and if that's the case, it should've been elaborated as to WHY Caine would allow that.

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>>154294675
Also, off the top of my head there is the infamous trans-Jax post too.

>>154294526
>Fumbling the cute tomboy frog who is really funny, swears a lot, and just wants you by her side
I am trying not to be petty in my critique but I will be lying if I am not a bit peeved.

>>154294715
That is not Goose saying Abstraction is suicide, it's Goose saying that Jax wants to die, but that doesn't change the fact we have characters who abstracted without being suicidally depressed.

>>154294715
...dude this director is kind of gross...

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>>154294750
>it's Goose saying that Jax wants to die
Anon. Goose is not exactly subtle about this.

>>154294708
If they were real humans, it would make sense, as there are parts Caine would and would not be able to control, and technically they have an interface they are connected to, but once the reveal happens that validates this idea entirely.
Just another aspect not very well thought out.

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>>154294793
>He's now queerbaiting to win back some of the woke fans.
I swear Goose hasn't mentally matured past high school, and this is coming from an autist working on a dock in a literal swamp. Like grow the fuck up dude, real life isn't Steven Universe and the guy on the bus isn't gonna stop drinking his booze to help your panic attack stop, and the people online who pretend to care will throw you under the bus (the Nega incident).

>>154294793
>>154294526
jax's inherent troonbrain spitefully and enviously despised the natural beauty Ribbit had that he will never be

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>>154294715
>Hey, if you guys could torture and humiliate the suicidal, closeted trans-woman, I would REALLY appreciate that.

>>154294715
>>154294793
authors making characters that they hate/are supposed to be hateable but the character is very obviously charismatic/likable/endearing in some way but the author still fails to see it and doesn't get why people like them is one of the weirdest phenomenons to me, I don't understand how it even happens and can't imagine it (being someone who somewhat writes myself)

Hello OP, as a fellow enjoyer of anime as well as cartoonery, I wonder if you, like me, are sick and tired of EVERYTHING INTERESTING having a SHIT ENDING

Ooh this death note is an interesting gimmick
>ending is shit
MHA is pretty fun
>shit ending
Wow this Dr. Stone premise is
>mega-shit ending
Chainsaw...
>shit

I'm so tired. Why can't anyone end anything in a satisfying way. Oda-sensei is our last hope.

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>>154294777
Yeah. Shit's fucked. The only reason I, as a mentally ill person who struggles with suicidal tendencies, felt safe engaging with this show beyond a certain point is because Goose was so laissez-faire about the whole thing that I figured 'surely it's not actually going to go down that road', only for the show to end on "LMAO TRY NOT BEING MENTALLY ILL NEXT TIME FAGGOT, THIS SHOW WAS ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO DEAL WITH YOUR SHIT THE WHOLE TIME"
On reflection, picrel just exposes her as being a braindead fucking moron who doesn't understand IHNMAIMS in the slightest. It's far and away more inspiring and optimistic than the shit she rolled out, but she apparently doesn't understand that because "woah, violence!" Ted sacrificed himself for the good of the dregs of humanity while being cursed with empathy for his abuser, how is that wretched an evil you fucking simpleton?! Meanwhile Jax just fucking kills himself in a self-obsessive spiral, gaining literally zero appreciation for any harm he's caused because he's too busy feeling sorry for himself, and then everyone's lives are immediately improved for his absence

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>>154294980
Goose most likely fumbled a girl that was really into him, the girl got over it but he didn't (but instead of commiting sudoku he trooned out).

>>154295084
If this is genuinely the self insert of the director and he finds out people kind of liked the part of him that he despises that must be one hell of a reality check., someone they are actively trying to avoid being too

>>154295108
Death note is older than 90% of people watching tadc. Land of Lustruous and Totsukuni no Shoujo had great endings.

>>154292589
>have the word TADC filtered
>thread still shows up
Fucking hell

>>154293555
Murder Drones

>>154295130
>Gooseworx IHNMAIMS adaptation
>"Uuuuuhhh, AM actually only destroyed humanity and tortured it's 5 chosen victims because it was a tranny-bot!"
You just know it would happen

>>154295181
>he doesn't know how to use wildcards
Get good

>>154295144
many such cases unfortunately
autism is hell

>>154295242
Wth, meant to reply to >>154295164

>>154292602
>>Abstractions make no sense
>It also makes abstraction, an extremely impactful analog to suicide, the idea that someone has become uncontrollable by kane, because they lost their mind feel... so meaningless and boring.
>If it is all just software and mind files, it should be trivially easy to fix abstractions. Kinger said the files are relatively small, and kane obviously can fix abstracted part of characters. It does not really make sense that abstractions are the way they are. It feels like the director created the settings for a mystery without actually thinking through what the story even is.
We saw that jax was still kinda aware while abstracted. So it leaves hope open that they might be able to fix things.

>>154295130
I want to see him try this only to get brutally mogged by the point and click adventure game
zoomers would absolutely eat that shit up tho and everytime I'd have to mention one of my favorite pieces of science fiction everyone would immediately think of the modern shitty tranny coded one

>>154292671
i liked berserk and tadc

How do I fix someone like Jax IRL?

>>154295108
>Deku becomes a teacher and all his friends leave him for 8 years and he doesn't lift a finger to become a hero again until Bakugo buys him an Iron Man suit
Deku is genuinely worse than Jax

>>154295108
I have not encountered a lot of bad endings lately.
The one thing I would say about the titles you listed is that all of them are hyper competitive jump manga, so they are usually just written out with a very basic outline and make it up along the way, because they could be axed at any point.
I highly recommend both summertime rendering and the vertical world, both are jump as well and you could read them on manga plus for free, and since they are mystery horror they might scratch the itch tadc left somewhat

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Oh, apparently it doesn't matter now.
Jax is whatever. That solves everything(!)

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>>154292589
i would have been pissed if i had paid money for a ticket to see this lmao
the show sets up so many questions and then doesn't address them at all.
how did Ribbit, Kaufmo and Gangle get into the circus? or rather, why did they end up in the office?
what is the condition of the equipment that's running the circus?
why did every file have a date of October 15?
as soon as Kinger said that throwaway line about file sizes, i knew it was Goose trying to handwave the technical questions away.

i had written such a better ending in my head it's unreal.
i honestly wonder if one day we'll hear that the ending was originally going to be totally different, but there was pressure on Goose to leave things open for the chance of more content later and that's why we got this limp ending.

you know what it sort of reminds me of? how everyone was disappointed in Steven Universe. all this buildup just to completely forgive the genocidal space matriarchs with the power of love and friendship. with TADC, you've got all this buildup just to get crying and hugging it out in a dimly lit hallway.

>>154295384
>I'm really bad at making things subtle
KEK
LMFAO
HOLY FUCK
As if that wasn't completely fucking obvious.

>>154295310
That is alright.
I was enjoying it a lot too but this final episode just ruined the work for me.

>>154295329
I've actually enjoyed the summertime rendering anime more than Tadc.

i wish Ellison was still alive so he could sue Goose for a piece of the pie.
he was very litigious, it would absolutely have happened.

Hey OP, thanks for the good thread. I was also extremely disappointed with the ending. Mind you, I already had extremely low expectations going into it, and still managed to be underwhelmed.
Everything you said is true, goose is simply a hack writer that clearly put little or no real thought into his writing, and that's why it's so inconsistent and has zero narrative coherence. The first episode gave us an interesting set up followed by 8 episodes of nothing happening. This entire show was an exercise in narcissistic overindulgence.
A perfectly good premise wasted on shallow melodrama, therapyslop, and tranny allegories. Nothing happens, the characters never grow, no mystery is ever resolved, nobody is real, and this all meant nothing.

>>154295384
I think this should be enough in terms of searching the director for answers.
It confirms that the unresolved and broken feeling yhe work has really does come from them, but, trying to milk out individual answers is meaningless.
I always hated how much some eva fans would rather dig through stuff Anno said instead of just watching.

>>154295467
Hell yeah!
I should watch that anime. I was reading it weekly back in 2020/2021. I was genuinely on the edge of my seat, and every dilemma and plotpoint hit home really heavy.

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>>154295174
Murder Drones ends rather abruptly but I chalk that more up to Glitch's business model and the small number of episodes. Regardless I found it extremely entertaining. Kino indeed.

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>>154295424
I remember getting a sort of feeling back when I gave steven universe a shot where, it really felt like K went from enchanted to completely turned away, just like with tadc.
>I slowly realized all the characters are really bad people with contradictory and inane traits
>The initially interesting world revealed into something a lot less interesting
>Firector really abused crying and intense emotions, making all the characters feel infintile.
By the way, crying can be a really strong tool when used right, the problem is abusing it and making it meaningless.

>>154295108
>Chainsaw...
"Thank you Amazing Digital Circus Girl"
"What?"
"Because umm... we're digital and you look like you're from a circus"
"Oh yeah"

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>>154295500
Thank you for coming anon.
Even though I wish this would have stuck the landing, I have not had a good discussion like that in a while.
Tanoshii.

>>154295313
Guessing giving the dude space but not leaving them out would be best.
Getting hurt by family like that, especially associating hugs with something so brutal as betrayal must be rough, and if he is being a jerk rewarding it is not right.
Probably the opposite of what zooble did, though. Just looked for reasons to berate the dude.

>>154295711
After a certain point, I think it was no longer possible to stick the landing.
Still, I didn't expect goose to fuck up this bad.
I don't know if I could've written a worse ending if I were trying to sabotage the show.
I'm just happy to be able to talk to other people who recognize this garbage for what it truly is, instead of mindlessly praising the indieslop.

>>154293455
First not terrible suggestions I've seen in these threads.
Maybe add Cain spying on them and finding the internet access that way.
Also how would they look their IRL selves up if they don't know their names?

>>154295130
I never know the right way to reply to this but I hope you would be able to pushpast it, man.

>>154295145
Liking a character is very different from liking a real person.

>>154295827
>Also how would they look their IRL selves up if they don't know their names?
Well if Caine was able to look them up based on their names, it's not out of line for that information to be available with his deletion. And considering they can remember parts about their life before the Circus, it's entirely possible for them to remember the social handles they used online.

>>154295826
I think honestly...
>Episode 8 happens
>Kinger deletes Caine
>World starts falling apart
Either
>No weird "They are just software" twist, everyone tries to find a way to leave, but drama is caused by jax not wanting to face the real world again and still being attached to ribbit, and you can still have an interesting psych "saving jax"
or
>They are software, but killing caine actually destabilized the world and they realize they need to figure out how to fix it so they do not perish.

But, yeah, I agree. This is the type of work that should have had a thought of ending first and worked backwards. That is how good mystery stories work.

>>154293455
It's insane how much better TADC would be if you got rid of the aoe-is-me therapy bullshit and actually did stuff like this to move the story forward on earlier.

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Wait a minute
>The one thing I don't have control over is your mind
Caine does not bring up anything related to mindfiles or the characters being software until episode 8, prior to that it was always treated like there were real people in a room with headsets!
This guy just forgot his own plotpoints.

pic unrelated

>>154296040
The cope is that he's lying because he doesn't want to accidentally abstract them

>>154296040
There is a real chance that he was programed to think of the rest of them as real/he lied

>>154295843
You don't have to reply anything, we're all mad here, it's fine, my issues go beyond what any random anon's reply might influence so don't stress, I'm just screaming into the void to feel a little better

>>154295938
My issue with the big reveal that they're all software, is that we were repeatedly told by the author that they are real humans, only for that to be a lie.
It's one thing to throw out red herring or set up a clever twist, but this was just a lie. That's like if we were explicitly told by the author and by the plot that Bruce Willis is definitely 100% alive through out The Sixth Sense, only be told "ha, you fucking idiot, you actually believed me?"
None of these characters are real, so all of their "struggles" are meaningless, and the only reason we even cared was because we were lied to about the nature of their existence.
That said, I've seen lots of people throw out ideas for alternate endings, and literally anything is better than the nothing we got.

And another thing: goose makes it very clear that there's no coming back from abstraction, only to spend HALF of the finale teasing that maybe abstraction can be reversed, only to immediately go back to it can't be reversed.
SO THEN WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT ENTIRE SEQUENCE? Just more expo dumping about a character who is dead and it has no impact on the rest of the story. Also first abstraction is what happens when you go crazy, then it's something that Caine does either by accident or malice when he's fucking with the cast, now it's actually a form of suicide/ego death. It's clear that goose didn't bother to think any of this through, that's why there are so many inconsistencies and plot holes. He was making shit up as he went along, changing established rules when it suit the story.

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How did Gangle and Zooble know how to set up an abstraction funeral for Kaufmo when nobody had abstracted since they had been there? And no, the other faces on the doors in Episode 1 can't be who they've seen, as they aren't included on the mural at the end.

And why did Ragatha make it sound like a regular tradition to do a funeral when she would have only done Ribbit's, and it would have just been her, Kaufmo, and Kinger there? Why did those three apparently start ghosting Ribbit anyway if her only issue was Jax being a shit?

>>154296080
Except we see him accessing the brainscan files and creating the first circus cast member. So he had to have known they weren't real, HE MADE THEM.
Which is why it's so odd that he's surprised to see Pomni join the circus in the first episode. He put her there!
There is ZERO consistency because goose is a hack writer. He tried to write a mystery, but doesn't know any of the rules for writing one.

>>154296158
I watched the finale last night and there's a short scene where Jax loudly asks Ragatha about a movie or something when Ribbit is approaching (Ribbit is shown limping away while Ragatha replies) so I'm just assuming Jax monopolizes Ragatha's attention so nobody notices Ribbit.

>>154296158
You're thinking about it harder than the author did.

>>154295938
>They are software, but killing caine actually destabilized the world and they realize they need to figure out how to fix it so they do not perish
Yeah I think this would've been a good way to do the "life is meaningless but it's still worth living" trope that they ended up doing anyways just poorly.

>>154294526
Jax is a faggot

>>154295826
The obvious set-up from the previous episode was Bubble as the true big bad. There's a reason why there was a surge of Ringmaster Bubble fanart after that episode ended.
>Red dot (Caine) tried to eat Blue dot (Able) to protect the humans when he saw he was a threat
>Bubble keeps whispering in ears to cause them to abstract, and let Caine take the blame, even doing it to Caine himself at the end
>waits for Kinger to get the computer and tricks him using his limited control to delete Caine
>Bubble takes control of the circus and immediately starts to expose Jax's secrets to try and give him the final push
>the group have to restore Caine to finish Bubble for good, rather than Caine just crawling out of the recycle bin himself
And so on until your happy ending

In the end, Bubble doesn't even appear in the final episode

I have nothing to say OP but you summarized my thoughts perfectly. The series is a complete failure when it comes to the writing.

>>154292602
Abstraction is not just suicide, it's mental illness, or being gay or other stuff.

Sometimes, it's a part of you, and if you get rid of it, you face something maybe worse then death.

>>154292671
They did waste a lot of potential and possibilities.

I made a BIG post in other thread.


Honestly if you ignore most of end of last ep, you could basically make another season (or 10) of some better plot stuff.

Give it to Alex Hirsch (gravity falls) or something

>>154292870
>souls aren't le real
edgy

>>154292589
The board etiquette is to never post any kind of images of east origin from China Japan Mongolia North Korea South Korea Taiwan and Hong Kong. It is 0co/'s number one rule. Always report any avatarfagging , "reaction" images and all that from those countries. So no anime, manhwa, Chinese shit, etc

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>>154293037
>but this is the finale of an indie cartoon that has found such worldwide success that is has over a billion views spread across just 9 episodes. This is a landmark event.
From a Tranny?
Man that is fucking GRIMDARK of the GRIMMEST DARK if true. Modern animation is never getting better.

>>154292589
>I can not believe that a series that, for the first few episodes, had me feeling shivers and rewatching every single one over and over again, had such a wet fart of an ending that I was watching in contempt, stopping every minute or so, just wishing it would be over already, wondering how I ever liked this thing.
>For the record, I am someone who always gives endings a chance. There is often a disparity between what you percieve the work to be at first and what it really is. I am a gainax/trigger/khara fan, so I often lament myself when viewers close their hearts to a work just because it did not turn out the way they expected...
>But... no matter how I look at this, this ending does not match the story at all, nor the build up, and shows some really strange delusions the creator of this show has.
I swear, half the people acting like the ending was the worst thing ever were watching the series with their ears plugged. Basically every problem that existed in the ending was present from the start of the show.
TADC's script was never good. There have been good moments, but taken as a whole, every episode has been mediocre writing-wise. Dialogue is stilted and super on-the-nose, pacing is a mess, characters will act in service of the plot Gooseworx wanted to push them through even if it means they have to act like total idiots to make it work.

There's not even an explanation of why there was a random flash grenade left in the bedroom corridor. That alone is the perfect example of how the series is moments without any serious attempt at cohesion.

Why does not caine just make his own sentient npcs, he was clearly capable of that with the aligator