>They are all just programs
This ruins the story.
When they spawn in, the imagery is very clear that their "soul" has entered the circus. They are certain that they are continuations of the people getting the brain scan, not brand a new consciousness. It goes from genuine horror to... literally a bunch of code pretending to be people. There is no insinuation that the code has its own consciousness either because despite finding out about this, they end up just returning to trying to solve each others' problems as if they were real people.
Kinger telling pomni how she is strong and took the digital transition well makes zero sense in this context, nor does it make any sense to solve for jax.
>Abstractions make no sense
It also makes abstraction, an extremely impactful analog to suicide, the idea that someone has become uncontrollable by kane, because they lost their mind feel... so meaningless and boring.
If it is all just software and mind files, it should be trivially easy to fix abstractions. Kinger said the files are relatively small, and kane obviously can fix abstracted part of characters. It does not really make sense that abstractions are the way they are. It feels like the director created the settings for a mystery without actually thinking through what the story even is.
>Zero impact from the realization that they are software
"Your little crying face left quite a little crying mark on the internet"
One of the reasons episode 1 and 2 are so good is because of how real the reactions pomni has feel. Her character feels so human. She gazes in horror, she freaks out, she does not tolerate the cartoony behavior that the broken in characters have aquired.
The realization that she herself is not even real, should have sent her spiraling. It should have had the whole cast freaking out.
Instead, it just becomes a weird crying montage where they instantly opt to rebuild the circus.

>Kane makes no sense
Most of the series communicated really strongly that kane had an understanding that he was dealing with irreplacable sentient beings, that there was a multi layer situation to be solved, and there is a genuine danger that the cast will find their way out of the circus. None of this lines up at all with anything that happened in the last three or so episodes. Why did Kane not just tell them that they are his programs? It would have made things a lot easier for him. Also, if they are just programs how do they have any sort of edit permission? This is so poorly thought out.
Was the blue AI an attempt to paint scratch as the bad guy? That makes no real sense either. The whole Kubrick segment where Kane is trying to redeem himself made zero sense either, nor does the fact that he survived.
>Nonsensicle attempt to try and make the work look smarter by adding eva/anno elements without understanding why they even work in the first place
>Watching their real selves on twitter
why... would they care? Even if they are conscious, and not just software acting like people, they just realized that they could be themselves instead of worrying about going outside, why would they care about the real world counterparts?

>Why the hell western writing makes casts of unlikable characters?
I feel like it is really common in the west to write terrible characters. An entire cast where I would not want to spend a second in their company. An extremely common complaint about anime from western fans is that the character is just a bishonen surrounded by cute girls... Even in the most generic forms of that, at least the characters are young, pretty, have aspirations, and are trying their best. The more this work went on, the more miserable it was to bare with the cast. Difficult, complex, interesting characters are wonderful. Eizouken does this really well. The characters are super rough around the edges, often do not see eye to eye, the stagnation of the town is seeping in to their lives, none of them has moe or protagonist energy, but, it ends up coming together really well.
Zooble is just a bad person, she is rude, mean, and chooses to take everything as an insult, yet pretends to be a saint who is stands up for the little guy.
Ragatha is really gross. She is two faced and tries to assert superiority over others by pretending to help, and then gets offended and freaks out when others do not take kindly to her obvious plays.
Kinger is either in wacky mode, or in dad mode, but in dad mode he refuses to tell them important pieces of information that would really help them down the line.
Gangle's personality is veing a victim. Her drawings are just escapism. She takes any compliment to her art as bullying, and takes every bit of babying as a completion of her escapism, and if she had a choice, she enjoys being manipulative.
Pomni starts off as subtle, but becomes someone who "just wants to talk about it". She treats people like objects to be solved, and in the end, she is not there for them when she is actually needed.

Jax is whatever the director feels like fits a message against toxic masculinity. Sometimes he is the "life is a joke" type of asshole. Sometimes, he is secretly an owo soft boy who puts up a tough front but actually "just needs a hug". Sometimes he is a smartass that talks like a redditor, he has to be in the wrong though, because
>The director is a dishonest writer, trying to reach a conclusion based on a message they want heard
I have not researched the director. I know they are trans because the staff call them she, but they sound like a dude when talking to chris oneil. No issue with trans, which is important to state because it is easy to just say the next part is just anti lgbt.
This director is really trying to affirm something about their world view that goes against their own logic and the logic of the world they built up, which feels off and sticks out like a sore thumb.
Ragatha is a really bad person, and she gets called out on that, but the series realizes that it would mean jax is right, so the rest of the work goes to puppying her and validating her awful two faced behavior.
The series yaas queen's zooble so much that it genuinely feels like she is the worst mary sue I have encountered in a loooong time. The director has a weird fascination with jax, and proving jax wrong, but jax is the only one that is characterized to actually give a damn and try to engage with the hobbies and interests of the characters. The suggestion box part is really interesting. Zooble clearly has an issue with any display of masculinity, and constantly tries to makes jax more effeminate, as well as completely clap back at him for saying the bar stuff is so like them, even though it would have been a complimnet if LITERALLY ANY OTHER CHARACTER MADE THAT REMARK.

FIY, I hate jax. He feels like corkus from berserk. No matter how you look at it though, jax ends up sticking out as saner and usually antagonized by the cast. The incompleteness of the world view of the director leaves a gash in the story where it is painfully obvious that you are reading someone struggling to affirm a belief.
Why is gangles so sure that zooble was impacting them positively?
Their only interaction was "standing up to the big bad bully". Why is the awful shit ragatha did fine?
The attempt to say something about positivity and "fixing" toxic masculinity feels almost comedic in how badly it is implemented.
Why the hell are they trying to "fix" jax by doing the very things that obviously cause him trauma, EVEN AFTER they learn that they do?!

This is such a dumpster fire. What a waste of a cool setup.

Also, forgot to say, zero urgency finding out their whole existance is on a computer in a forgotten office that has been running somewhere since the 90s. This ending was dumb.

I don't have anything to add but just wanted to let you know I read all of your posts and appreciated them.

Troons can't write anything that isn't an allegory for trooning out and mental illness.

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>>154292782
Appreciated.
I needed a sanity check after watching that.

>>154292602
>the imagery is very clear that their "soul" has entered the circus.
Nothing you say is worth reading past this.

>>154292602
Your first paragraph here already has a lot of issues with asserting that things make zero sense, rather than just saying that you're confused by it, and the fact that you've typed up several huge paragraphs and ejaculated them out makes it clear that you'd be very hard to interact with, which is a shame.

Fuck OFF to the dedicated circusfuck thread and stop shitting up the catalogue with your stupid bullshit

The whole series is gooseworx vomiting his mental illness and struggles with being a tranny onto a screen. Every single character is an admitted aspect of himself, especially Jax. He's even outright said that Jax is everything he recognizes is wrong with him and everything hates about himself and that's why Jax suffers more than any other character and effectively commits suicide. Jax is gooseworx torturing himself. The whole series is self-flagellation because gooseworx is too much of a pussy faggot to just suck buckshot.

I have to disagree about Jax. He's always been a massive shit head throughout the rest of the show. I do agree with you though that the casts inability to engage with the adventures, up until the end where Kane becomes more accommodating was annoying.
>The director has a weird fascination with jax, and proving jax wrong
This is because Jax is Goose's self insert. Don't want to get into it because this has already killed discussion on the show, though.

Absolutely based, best and only good TADC thread on the catalog; I agree with literally every point you made and have been thinking about the same criticisms.

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Guys the secret alternate ending just dropped.

>>154292821
Nah, the Matrix is fine and its creators are trans.
They actually straight up mock the fact people thought it was a trans allegory in the 4th movie.
Also, this issue of an incomplete self validating world is visible with media that has nothing to do with trans either.
I really hate My Hero Academia because of how much mental gymnastic it does to validate the "underdog who geeks out and becomes one of his heroes that way"

>>154292671

The fact that you have referenced Berserk immediately gives your words more credence.

>>154292950
>Nah, the Matrix is fine and its creators are trans.
But now the blue pilled/red pilled meme is so much funnier.

>>154292950

Allow me to fix it:

Millennial and Gen Z Troons can't write anything that isn't an allegory for trooning out and mental illness.

>>154292950
They weren't trans when the first matrix was made, right?

>>154292915
Sorry, anon, I know it sucks when a show floods a board, but this is the finale of an indie cartoon that has found such worldwide success that is has over a billion views spread across just 9 episodes. This is a landmark event. Would have been nice if it stuck the landing...
>>154292929
cheers anon
>>154292942
/tv/ has done it again.

Guys, the Wachowskis transitioned decades after making the Matrix.

>>154293026
Right

>>154292889
>>154292870
>the show/writers/directors told you 'actually show is about X thing and was always about this and was always like this' therefore you have to just believe it and repeat it even though the show was literally not like this before and went out of its way to do Y things earlier on
lolno
it's blatantly obvious the story was not actually planned out and was being made up as it went along, especially in response to fan criticisms and wishes i.e. pandering
it is so blatantly obvious that the premise initially really is that they are real people trapped in a game world, SAO-style, and that trying to escape will factor into it somehow - otherwise episode 1 would not have dedicated most of its runtime to Pomni literally trying to escape and likewise none of the ways the cast arriving there and how they talk about it and how the show even scores certain scenes etc in regards to them thinking they are real people trapped there makes any sense in light of the ending reveal, as the OP anon pointed out

likewise, it is also really obvious that the whole business with Jax's character later on was not planned at the start either and him being trans or whatever was cobbled on at the end, additionally, as the OP anon said, there is literally no way you can say that Jax was wrong or did anything wrong in light of the reveal that he was right all along and none of it, even the cast themselves, are actually physically real
>b-buh you're missing the point, it was ackshually a character study all along, it was always a therapy show for millenials and about just standing around expositioning feelings, we were always at war with Eastasia
saying this still doesn't erase the critcisms no matter how much you repeat it. Everybody can remember the earlier episodes and rewatch them at any moment and see that it was not always like the last episode and all the unresolved plot threads and plot holes still stand, you can't just brush them away just because of muh themes

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>>154292968
Miura and his work will forever stay in my heart.
By the way, a lot of people don't know this, but the manga "Nausicaa of the valley of the wind" by Hayao miyazaki seemed to have inspired berserk in a lot of ways, it is proper dark fantasy too, I highly recommend checking it out for any berserk fan.

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>>154292589
I’m honestly surprised you didn’t see this coming. People predicted the ending months before, even before the leaks came out. It kinda says something about yourself on why you decided to stick with the show til the bitter end.

>>154292641
>Eizouken does this really well. The characters are super rough around the edges, often do not see eye to eye, the stagnation of the town is seeping in to their lives, none of them has moe or protagonist energy, but, it ends up coming together really well.
Actually pretty good comparison

>>154292925
Oh, I was wondering of this anon >>154292923 was being sincere or not. I do not want to get too much into drama or the director as a person, but that is interesting that that was the direction all along.

>>154293092
I think Jax being trans was probably planned, but only because Goose is narcissistic.

>>154292589
I bet the final view count will be 150M
If Glitch wants to exploit this finale I can see them uploading the Last Act as a bonus once EP 9's views plateu.

>>154293092
The story is fucking obvious from the beginning if you aren't a fucking retard. "Oh no I put a headset on, now I'm in the game world, and I can't get the headset off. Luckily I came here with other people and they'll help me! Wait, why aren't they helping me???"
>You: I guess all the friends were murdered and pomni got sucked into the digital world like Michael Jordan in Space Jam.
Like, really, who the fuck is shocked by this ending from a logical standpoint. It's fucking baffling.

>>154293037
>trannoid drivel is a landmark event
You have to be 18 to post on here

>>154293173
He's not being sincere, because its rage bait. But it only works as rage bait because its what happened. You should avoid all discussion about Tadc from here on out because Goose's writing decisions have completely destroyed all potential discussion on it from here on out.

>>154292942
>Ending literally copied the shitty Rebuild Evangelion movies
Hahahaha

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>>154292923
>>154292925
The weirdest thing to me about the finale… well, one of the weirdest things. There were quite a few. It felt like they were obviously building up to rescuing Jax from abstraction and his own mental prison. Pomni tries, then the others rescue her and say “you don’t have to do this alone.”
Caine says something about helping, and they make it seem like they have a plan for Jax, but then instead, I guess the plan is just leaving him in a blanket fort for all eternity.
There’s repeated imagery throughout the show of someone falling into the dark, as a visual representation of abstracting, and being caught by the others.
It felt like Pomni alone was getting through to Jax, but then he… steps on some flash grenades, and that’s it?
Just bizarre to have everything feel like it’s building toward rescuing the person, and then just say ‘nah, nevermind.’
And then after devoting so much time to it, nobody really seems to care that much.
Just like nobody seemed to really care that much that they’re just programs. Blink and you could miss the reveal.
And the biggest thing that ever happened was Caine dying, and it’s just undone without explanation.
And I guess Abel, the blue orb, was the evil one. But it’s not a sentient being on its own? It just sails away never to return?
Some truly bizarre choices, but Jax being left to his fate is especially strange.

>>154293155
This is probably bait but,
Even if it was always planned to be that they are pure software, the fact they took months of freaking out to adjust to the digital circus but kind of instantly accepted not being real, makes this a really weak landing.
The fact jax abstracted anyways and they spent the rest of the time talking about unresolved real world issues makes no sense either. Nor is the fact nobody is panicking over the fact their lives are on an abandoned, dying computer.
Even if this is the intended plot, the execution is awful.

I was kind of hoping that they'd end up being able to bring everyone back given that they seemed to go for the happiest ending possible, but eeeh you never know I guess.

>>154293252
I see.
I will probably do that, but I am enjoying reflecting on the series even if it ended up being a dissappontment.

Why do people who say "Kane" always have the worst understandings and opinions lol

>>154293290
As an anon above has stated, none of this was preplanned. Goose made all of this up as he went along, even by his own admission deliberately sabotaging the ending because his own fans annoyed him.

>>154293254
I agree.
None of that made sense.
Caine's redemption just feels like an attempt to include kubrick imagery
That "rescuing someone from their own mind" just feels like an attempt to include evangelion imagery.
But without the contexts of the original works, it just feels like a really bad fan fiction.

Also, I have been writing Kane this whole time, Dammit.

>>154293254
>It felt like they were obviously building up to rescuing Jax from abstraction and his own mental prison
>but then instead, I guess the plan is just leaving him in a blanket fort for all eternity
>Jax being left to his fate is especially strange
this is one of the things that bothers me the most about the ending too, maybe even moreso than the 'Jax was right (but we're still gonna act like he did anything wrong and was karmically punished by the plot anyway) none of it is really real' thing
the fact that the show devolves into spending so much time apparently setting up near-Christian themes of forgiveness and redemption (and even toys with Christian and Gnostic Christian imagery, naming conventions e.g. Cain and Abel, aesthetics etc) the whole time only to nope out at the last second and have Jax be unsaved - despite it turning out they are literally just data and that Caine should just be able to edit+undo the abstraction - is just so weird. It's like the show is forcing a 'life just sucks and you have to live with it and some people just can't be saved and deserve the consequences of their actions and you have to grimly accept it' theme just because the writer/director hates Jax for weird personal psyche reasons EVEN THOUGH IN-UNIVERSE BY THE STORY'S OWN LOGIC, JAX WAS LITERALLY RIGHT AND DID NOTHING WRONG SO WTF

the whole thing is just ad-libbed, contradictory nonsense and the ending makes the whole show retroactively fall apart like a jenga tower

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>>154293290
>Nor is the fact nobody is panicking over the fact their lives are on an abandoned, dying computer.
I think the finale could've landed a lot better if it was split into at least three different episodes.
>The first episode is when everybody finds out that they're digital copies. They all freak out, understandably, until one of them stumbles across the Internet and uses it to look up their IRL selves. They all take turns seeing how they're doing IRL and come to some level of peace with it except for Jax, who adamantly refuses to do so, mocking everybody else for even caring before fucking off.
>The second episode is Jax abstracting. Instead of just Pomni opting to deal with him, she convinces everybody to try to do something for him because Caine had never tried to fix an abstraction before. Episode plays out like usual, but instead everybody gets to explore Jax's mindscape. They still fail to save him though.
>The third and final episode is Caine travelling through the void and discovering the internet himself. Armed with a better understanding of humans, he decides to travel back to the Circus and make amends with the humans by doing his best to try to unabstract everybody. This effort is enough for the cast to tentatively accept Caine back into their lives.
>Ending plays out like normal, except for a post-credits scene where Caine hollers out excitedly that he got it to work and Pomni and Kinger rush into the aquarium to check it out.

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TLDR, can your boy get a synopsis of Shingi's ramblings over here?

>>154292589
>no matter how I look at this, this ending does not match the story at all
It genuinely feels like Goose lost the thread of what they were writing.

Even if everything's written as they're going, you'd have some kind of central idea in your head on how to finish a story and why you put out the plot points you did, even if you're not fully consciously aware of it.
It doesn't feel like suddenly just missing ideas, it feels like whatever they originally planned to write was just dropped. With how they obviously turned against their fanbase, I am ready to believe they did it on purpose, and whether trans Jax was planned from the start or not to be some major plot point, it would work as a shield against criticisms about making the ending shit on purpose.

>>154293442
The themes of redemption and forgiveness were fulfilled with Caine, not Jax. Look, even analyzing it through a Christian lens (like come on, Goose is trans and obviously knows nothing about Christianity) Jax killing himself would be denying himself of any possible redemption.
Which is actually a major piece of Christian theology. Caine choosing to go on is why he gets redemption, Jax ending it is why he doesn't.

>>154293478
Goose is a hack that is not beating the "Modern animation are just therapy sessions" allegations and the ending sucked because of it.

What is it about shows nowadays and being completely unable to stick the landing? I can't think of a single show that's come out in the past ten or so years that doesn't trip and shit its pants in the end.

>Jax finds out that he was right all along; they aren't real people and nothing matters
>this means he knows that none of his 'bad' behavior had any actual impact or consequence at all, he and they really are just cartoon characters and anyone who abstracted like Ribbit did so because of their own self-inflicted delusions of thinking they were real and that anything mattered therefore it wasn't Jax's fault - and also the abstraction can likely be undone at any point since they're just code
>he also knws this obviously means his pre-Circus memories aren't real either; he was never the gender-confused Leeroy nor did he ever shove his mom or anything else, he really has always just been the funny rabbit man
explain why Jax even abstracts after finding this out and isn't completely at peace and joyful after finding out this information without coping

>>154293442
>despite it turning out they are literally just data and that Caine should just be able to edit+undo the abstraction
It literally shows that the people inside the abstractions are intact, that caine can fix abstraction issues, and that they are not actual minds but folders he can double click and do what he wants with.
What is the point of not fixing everyone and paving a new path rather than just... keeping it a circus.
So upsetting.
Episode 1 and 2 are so cool. The beginning of a mystery of navigating a situation where nobody knows what is real or not, but it seems like there is some sort of an exit. Just a couple of weeks ago I was watching the series over and over in anticipation for the finale.

>>154293455
Yeah, that works out.
This was a well supported show, so it makes no real sense that they had to rush it or get it over woth, it is literally the most successful indie cartoon in recent memory.

>>154293442
>the writer/director hates Jax for weird personal psyche reasons
Yeah. Even Caine, who literally tortured them all, was easily redeemed.
I guess it’s not too surprising, if the creator has said Jax represents the worst parts of himself.
But even in-universe
>had by far the most traumatic backstory
>is the youngest by far
>had to deal with the psychological agony of never knowing if you killed your own mother, while also dealing with the psychological agony of being trapped forever in a computer program
Yeah, no shit he handled things poorly. He had good reasons.

>>154293555
Inflated egos and prioritizing self-serving compliments over narrative coherence.
Don't be surprised that years down the line after the honeymoon phase is over people will start doing "Why TADC's ending was wasted potential" type of video essays and then blame the fans or something because criticizing Goose is off-limits to them.

>>154293455
Much better than what we got.

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>>154293517
Gotcha, thanks. Don't see why he couldn't vent his frustrations on one of the other 30 threads though.

Anyone who would kill themselves over being a clone or a copy of their original self is weak.Plain and simple.

Literally all they needed to add to make the ending satisfactory is show them working on curing abstraction. Putting them in blanket forts and dark aquariums is just a comfier version of the basement method of sweeping it under the carpet. They have no other goal now that escape is not an option, so that should be the priority.

>but it’s suicide
Thats clearly what it’s supposed to be, but the fact is that it just isn’t. They leave scared rampaging monsters but those can be calmed and even have others go inside to talk to their inner body. They cause a glitching effect when touching others that only Caine can fix, only now Caine has passed on this ability to the others. Even if it’s a fruitless effort, they should at least be trying now. Hell, Caine survived being fucking deleted, the others can surely deal with some corrupted files.

It doesn’t even need to actually solve it by the end. Just show progress with Jax’s abstraction taking on more of a bunny shape, or have Kinger reach into Queenie’s mind to sit and talk with her again, or even just them stood around a whiteboard trying to understand - hell, swap that mural scene of them all with that instead. Just anything to show them making actual progress.

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So basically Jax's mom was right. Any man who shows weakness is not a man at all. Only women are weak. Men are strong. Thank you Mommy Jax for teaching youngsters everywhere this valuable lesson.

>>154293511
I think malicious or not, you could tell the director has an inner conflict, and this dishonesty ends up being very very loud.
It also feels a bit like the type of amateur stories where someone starts with a setting, and just keeps writing without referring back to what they wrote.
It is honestly really hard to keep a long work cohesive, but this feels like an especially bad example of that, especially when the point is to have a multi layered mystery. Does not work when the author does not know what the mystery is.

Yeah we know

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Ending should have been pic

>>154293571
Yup.
That reveal did not fit anything that came before or after in the story.
Also, if he would have shut down the circus it would have literally killed everyone (if there is even a semblence of them being conscious and not just... literal game characters acting according to their code, which makes the story a lot lamer)

>>154293689
Yeah, if they went around and fixed everyone, and realized that this is their new reality and they can make it what they want it to be, it would have at least have some merit even if it did betray earlier themes.

>>154293571
I do think it would've been more interesting if Jax became an outright sociopath for the finale and took on a more antagonistic slasher type role. It would've been a lot more interesting than one last therapy session for the road.

I think Caine didn't cure Jax or the other abstracted characters out of respect. Ultimately, his character arc was about understanding the AIs generated from the memories of real people and realizing that his actions caused the AIs to sink deeper into their personal miseries, unlike their real-life counterparts, who found a solution to their problems on their own. Since returning to the real world was impossible, Ponmi and the others decided to accept their new identities and naturally live with them, dealing with and overcoming their past mistakes, something that would have been impossible if Caine had played God by reviving the rest of the cast once again.
However, I understand why so many people are upset. For anyone, the idea of accepting and befriending an omnipotent being without asking him to heal your loved ones seems strange.

>>154293709
I can not believe the real ending they chose as a sweet sendoff to the real people was living the minimum wage american dream in the 2010s.
Jax is probably back to being homeless after sending 4000 job apps, and zooble lost her bar in covid.

>>154293829
It's annoying that the movie poster made it look like he'd be a villain and everyone else is stuck in his world. But no, he's just a sad uwu girl.

>>154293849
But it seemed like there was a mutual desire for jax to break out of his shell and for pomni to save him in the end, and the cast were the ones that said no.
Also, this means he could have just fixed up the abstracted humans at any point in time before and just chose not to, which opens up a whole new can of worms of inconsistant writing.

>>154293811
The question is whether Caina and Kinger can save the abstracted characters or if they would have to create a new copy to do so. If the latter, it’s not worth it. Even if they had the same personality and memories, they’d still be copies. Yes, I know all the characters are just code, but they’ve clearly developed self-awareness beyond their human counterparts. They want to feel as human as possible.

>>154293455
This would've been peak and would've solved most of the issues I had with the finale

>>154293912
The movie poster just looks like an evangelion parody.
Just jax and pomni sad on a chair in abstract land.

>>154293942
>End of Evangelion poster
>Akira bike slide
>Jojo pose
THE SAME 3 REFERENCES
https://youtu.be/U_0XuGUri9U

>>154293849
That would be all well and good, except two episodes prior implies that abstractions were caused by Caine fucking with memories too much. It then becomes unclear who was a suicide to respect and who was a victim of Caine going mad with power that he needs to make right. Even Jax really only started to show signs of abstraction in the episode after Caine fucked with Jax’s mind to make him a vegan and put him in a dress, and Caine’s full villain episode shows that he IS fully aware of the mental weaknesses to exploit as punishment.

Jax is alive in the movie release. Sorry YouTube Onlys!

>>154293849
I mean, the cast blatantly says they are going to take care of Jax by themselves and don't want Caine to magic cure him.

>>154293942
The cinema poster was the other five stuck in a twisted house made of Jax heads

>>154293925
Did they develop self awareness?
They just went into "fixing their real world past" mode despite finding out that they are software. Unlike with the imagery on Caine, there is no clear imagery really proving that these characters are anything but scripts acting out their roles after the reveal that they are software. It was executed really poorly.
Also, the fact pomni can go in and interact with jax inside the abstraction makes it feel like it should be trivial to save them.

>>154293964
I miss episode 8. Probably the only truly good episode in the entire show. Felt like there was an actual payoff and stakes. Shame 9 couldn't follow up

>>154293964
The episode had the characters accusing Caine of doing it, but the show never confirmed he really was the one causing abstractions. We now have the revelation that emotional turmoil can cause them, and considering that everything they said in the finale ties directly to what Kinger said about his wife's situation in the Manor episode I think it's pretty clear the emotional aspect was always going to be the big focus and not the paranoia over what Caine did or didn't.

>>154293978
Ah, nevermind, thought of the thumbnail.
>>154293961
pfft.
They just can't help themselves

>>154293942
You're thinking of the YT thumbnail. I'm talking about the poster made for The Last Act.

>>154293977
That's not what Caine meant. When he asked if they wanted him to deal with Jax, he meant do they want him to shove Jax in the cellar.

>>154293912
I was expecting he'd be the villain too, and the direction they took was extremely dull. Its just pure narcissism. For all the issues with Caine's portion of episode 9, its at least more than a therapy session. Something happens.

>>154293918
That's true. I also felt that the rest of the cast wanted to help Ponmi rescue Jax. However, that idea was dismissed in favor of simply keeping Jax safe. With Caine’s help and the new skills they learned from Kinger, rescuing Jax and the others would have been easier (especially the others, who might have been more cooperative when the time came).

>>154294166
The funny thing is you guys are better writers than goose, because a bittersweet ending where they accept that they are just software but hope to one day free the abstracted and rebuild would have been way better.

>>154293571
Jax's belief that they're all cartoon archetypes is why he abstracted. Abstracting something means to simplify it by stripping away all of the details, like trying to reduce a complex human being with depth and layers to a flat archetype like "the funny one" or "the sad one".

>>154294207
That does not really make much sense.
Rags has never once been on the brink of losing it even though she completely accepts her role as a cartoon doll that is means to cheer others up.
Also, kofmo abstracted because he was clinging on to the idea of going back to being human and finding an exit.

>>154294340
And Ribbit abstracted because of her falling out with Jax, and Scratch abstracted because of Caine's tinkering. Maybe the exact process of abstraction and what triggers it is different for everyone who undergoes it because they all have different underlying issues.

>>154294409
I think it was just meant to be an analogy for killing themselves and the director did not put enough thought into the exact mechanism.

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Imagine fumbling a girl that looks at you like this

>>154294501
It can't be an analogy for killing yourself considering it happened to people who were going crazy in a manic and active way instead of sad-sack behaviour like Kaufmo.

>>154294599
>It can't be an analogy for killing yourself
Abstraction is an analogy for suicide. Goose has stated as such.

>>154293571
Jax burned every bridge he had and believed the one he had with Pomni was on shaky grounds already. You're asking for sensible behaviour from someone very deranged and with a very bad personality.

>>154294644
Post proof of Goose stating it as such, if you please. You got that in hand, right?

>>154292625
>Also, if they are just programs how do they have any sort of edit permission?
Giving programs write permissions certainly isn't unprecedented, but you generally want to be very careful about what programs you give that permission to, and the only real reason for a program to have that is if it's automated administration of a system, a database, etc.. Giving that permission to random programs generated/written by yet another program should've raised concerns from whoever's in charge of cybersecurity.
The only reason the circus members should be able to do what they did is if Caine allowed it, and if that's the case, it should've been elaborated as to WHY Caine would allow that.

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>>154294675
Also, off the top of my head there is the infamous trans-Jax post too.

>>154294526
>Fumbling the cute tomboy frog who is really funny, swears a lot, and just wants you by her side
I am trying not to be petty in my critique but I will be lying if I am not a bit peeved.

>>154294715
That is not Goose saying Abstraction is suicide, it's Goose saying that Jax wants to die, but that doesn't change the fact we have characters who abstracted without being suicidally depressed.

>>154294715
...dude this director is kind of gross...

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>>154294750
>it's Goose saying that Jax wants to die
Anon. Goose is not exactly subtle about this.

>>154294708
If they were real humans, it would make sense, as there are parts Caine would and would not be able to control, and technically they have an interface they are connected to, but once the reveal happens that validates this idea entirely.
Just another aspect not very well thought out.

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>>154294793
>He's now queerbaiting to win back some of the woke fans.
I swear Goose hasn't mentally matured past high school, and this is coming from an autist working on a dock in a literal swamp. Like grow the fuck up dude, real life isn't Steven Universe and the guy on the bus isn't gonna stop drinking his booze to help your panic attack stop, and the people online who pretend to care will throw you under the bus (the Nega incident).

>>154294793
>>154294526
jax's inherent troonbrain spitefully and enviously despised the natural beauty Ribbit had that he will never be

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>>154294715
>Hey, if you guys could torture and humiliate the suicidal, closeted trans-woman, I would REALLY appreciate that.

>>154294715
>>154294793
authors making characters that they hate/are supposed to be hateable but the character is very obviously charismatic/likable/endearing in some way but the author still fails to see it and doesn't get why people like them is one of the weirdest phenomenons to me, I don't understand how it even happens and can't imagine it (being someone who somewhat writes myself)

Hello OP, as a fellow enjoyer of anime as well as cartoonery, I wonder if you, like me, are sick and tired of EVERYTHING INTERESTING having a SHIT ENDING

Ooh this death note is an interesting gimmick
>ending is shit
MHA is pretty fun
>shit ending
Wow this Dr. Stone premise is
>mega-shit ending
Chainsaw...
>shit

I'm so tired. Why can't anyone end anything in a satisfying way. Oda-sensei is our last hope.

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>>154294777
Yeah. Shit's fucked. The only reason I, as a mentally ill person who struggles with suicidal tendencies, felt safe engaging with this show beyond a certain point is because Goose was so laissez-faire about the whole thing that I figured 'surely it's not actually going to go down that road', only for the show to end on "LMAO TRY NOT BEING MENTALLY ILL NEXT TIME FAGGOT, THIS SHOW WAS ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO DEAL WITH YOUR SHIT THE WHOLE TIME"
On reflection, picrel just exposes her as being a braindead fucking moron who doesn't understand IHNMAIMS in the slightest. It's far and away more inspiring and optimistic than the shit she rolled out, but she apparently doesn't understand that because "woah, violence!" Ted sacrificed himself for the good of the dregs of humanity while being cursed with empathy for his abuser, how is that wretched an evil you fucking simpleton?! Meanwhile Jax just fucking kills himself in a self-obsessive spiral, gaining literally zero appreciation for any harm he's caused because he's too busy feeling sorry for himself, and then everyone's lives are immediately improved for his absence

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>>154294980
Goose most likely fumbled a girl that was really into him, the girl got over it but he didn't (but instead of commiting sudoku he trooned out).

>>154295084
If this is genuinely the self insert of the director and he finds out people kind of liked the part of him that he despises that must be one hell of a reality check., someone they are actively trying to avoid being too

>>154295108
Death note is older than 90% of people watching tadc. Land of Lustruous and Totsukuni no Shoujo had great endings.

>>154292589
>have the word TADC filtered
>thread still shows up
Fucking hell

>>154293555
Murder Drones

>>154295130
>Gooseworx IHNMAIMS adaptation
>"Uuuuuhhh, AM actually only destroyed humanity and tortured it's 5 chosen victims because it was a tranny-bot!"
You just know it would happen

>>154295181
>he doesn't know how to use wildcards
Get good

>>154295144
many such cases unfortunately
autism is hell

>>154295242
Wth, meant to reply to >>154295164

>>154292602
>>Abstractions make no sense
>It also makes abstraction, an extremely impactful analog to suicide, the idea that someone has become uncontrollable by kane, because they lost their mind feel... so meaningless and boring.
>If it is all just software and mind files, it should be trivially easy to fix abstractions. Kinger said the files are relatively small, and kane obviously can fix abstracted part of characters. It does not really make sense that abstractions are the way they are. It feels like the director created the settings for a mystery without actually thinking through what the story even is.
We saw that jax was still kinda aware while abstracted. So it leaves hope open that they might be able to fix things.

>>154295130
I want to see him try this only to get brutally mogged by the point and click adventure game
zoomers would absolutely eat that shit up tho and everytime I'd have to mention one of my favorite pieces of science fiction everyone would immediately think of the modern shitty tranny coded one

>>154292671
i liked berserk and tadc

How do I fix someone like Jax IRL?

>>154295108
>Deku becomes a teacher and all his friends leave him for 8 years and he doesn't lift a finger to become a hero again until Bakugo buys him an Iron Man suit
Deku is genuinely worse than Jax

>>154295108
I have not encountered a lot of bad endings lately.
The one thing I would say about the titles you listed is that all of them are hyper competitive jump manga, so they are usually just written out with a very basic outline and make it up along the way, because they could be axed at any point.
I highly recommend both summertime rendering and the vertical world, both are jump as well and you could read them on manga plus for free, and since they are mystery horror they might scratch the itch tadc left somewhat

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Oh, apparently it doesn't matter now.
Jax is whatever. That solves everything(!)

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>>154292589
i would have been pissed if i had paid money for a ticket to see this lmao
the show sets up so many questions and then doesn't address them at all.
how did Ribbit, Kaufmo and Gangle get into the circus? or rather, why did they end up in the office?
what is the condition of the equipment that's running the circus?
why did every file have a date of October 15?
as soon as Kinger said that throwaway line about file sizes, i knew it was Goose trying to handwave the technical questions away.

i had written such a better ending in my head it's unreal.
i honestly wonder if one day we'll hear that the ending was originally going to be totally different, but there was pressure on Goose to leave things open for the chance of more content later and that's why we got this limp ending.

you know what it sort of reminds me of? how everyone was disappointed in Steven Universe. all this buildup just to completely forgive the genocidal space matriarchs with the power of love and friendship. with TADC, you've got all this buildup just to get crying and hugging it out in a dimly lit hallway.

>>154295384
>I'm really bad at making things subtle
KEK
LMFAO
HOLY FUCK
As if that wasn't completely fucking obvious.

>>154295310
That is alright.
I was enjoying it a lot too but this final episode just ruined the work for me.

>>154295329
I've actually enjoyed the summertime rendering anime more than Tadc.

i wish Ellison was still alive so he could sue Goose for a piece of the pie.
he was very litigious, it would absolutely have happened.

Hey OP, thanks for the good thread. I was also extremely disappointed with the ending. Mind you, I already had extremely low expectations going into it, and still managed to be underwhelmed.
Everything you said is true, goose is simply a hack writer that clearly put little or no real thought into his writing, and that's why it's so inconsistent and has zero narrative coherence. The first episode gave us an interesting set up followed by 8 episodes of nothing happening. This entire show was an exercise in narcissistic overindulgence.
A perfectly good premise wasted on shallow melodrama, therapyslop, and tranny allegories. Nothing happens, the characters never grow, no mystery is ever resolved, nobody is real, and this all meant nothing.

>>154295384
I think this should be enough in terms of searching the director for answers.
It confirms that the unresolved and broken feeling yhe work has really does come from them, but, trying to milk out individual answers is meaningless.
I always hated how much some eva fans would rather dig through stuff Anno said instead of just watching.

>>154295467
Hell yeah!
I should watch that anime. I was reading it weekly back in 2020/2021. I was genuinely on the edge of my seat, and every dilemma and plotpoint hit home really heavy.

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>>154295174
Murder Drones ends rather abruptly but I chalk that more up to Glitch's business model and the small number of episodes. Regardless I found it extremely entertaining. Kino indeed.

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>>154295424
I remember getting a sort of feeling back when I gave steven universe a shot where, it really felt like K went from enchanted to completely turned away, just like with tadc.
>I slowly realized all the characters are really bad people with contradictory and inane traits
>The initially interesting world revealed into something a lot less interesting
>Firector really abused crying and intense emotions, making all the characters feel infintile.
By the way, crying can be a really strong tool when used right, the problem is abusing it and making it meaningless.

>>154295108
>Chainsaw...
"Thank you Amazing Digital Circus Girl"
"What?"
"Because umm... we're digital and you look like you're from a circus"
"Oh yeah"

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>>154295500
Thank you for coming anon.
Even though I wish this would have stuck the landing, I have not had a good discussion like that in a while.
Tanoshii.

>>154295313
Guessing giving the dude space but not leaving them out would be best.
Getting hurt by family like that, especially associating hugs with something so brutal as betrayal must be rough, and if he is being a jerk rewarding it is not right.
Probably the opposite of what zooble did, though. Just looked for reasons to berate the dude.

>>154295711
After a certain point, I think it was no longer possible to stick the landing.
Still, I didn't expect goose to fuck up this bad.
I don't know if I could've written a worse ending if I were trying to sabotage the show.
I'm just happy to be able to talk to other people who recognize this garbage for what it truly is, instead of mindlessly praising the indieslop.

>>154293455
First not terrible suggestions I've seen in these threads.
Maybe add Cain spying on them and finding the internet access that way.
Also how would they look their IRL selves up if they don't know their names?

>>154295130
I never know the right way to reply to this but I hope you would be able to pushpast it, man.

>>154295145
Liking a character is very different from liking a real person.

>>154295827
>Also how would they look their IRL selves up if they don't know their names?
Well if Caine was able to look them up based on their names, it's not out of line for that information to be available with his deletion. And considering they can remember parts about their life before the Circus, it's entirely possible for them to remember the social handles they used online.

>>154295826
I think honestly...
>Episode 8 happens
>Kinger deletes Caine
>World starts falling apart
Either
>No weird "They are just software" twist, everyone tries to find a way to leave, but drama is caused by jax not wanting to face the real world again and still being attached to ribbit, and you can still have an interesting psych "saving jax"
or
>They are software, but killing caine actually destabilized the world and they realize they need to figure out how to fix it so they do not perish.

But, yeah, I agree. This is the type of work that should have had a thought of ending first and worked backwards. That is how good mystery stories work.

>>154293455
It's insane how much better TADC would be if you got rid of the aoe-is-me therapy bullshit and actually did stuff like this to move the story forward on earlier.

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Wait a minute
>The one thing I don't have control over is your mind
Caine does not bring up anything related to mindfiles or the characters being software until episode 8, prior to that it was always treated like there were real people in a room with headsets!
This guy just forgot his own plotpoints.

pic unrelated

>>154296040
The cope is that he's lying because he doesn't want to accidentally abstract them

>>154296040
There is a real chance that he was programed to think of the rest of them as real/he lied

>>154295843
You don't have to reply anything, we're all mad here, it's fine, my issues go beyond what any random anon's reply might influence so don't stress, I'm just screaming into the void to feel a little better

>>154295938
My issue with the big reveal that they're all software, is that we were repeatedly told by the author that they are real humans, only for that to be a lie.
It's one thing to throw out red herring or set up a clever twist, but this was just a lie. That's like if we were explicitly told by the author and by the plot that Bruce Willis is definitely 100% alive through out The Sixth Sense, only be told "ha, you fucking idiot, you actually believed me?"
None of these characters are real, so all of their "struggles" are meaningless, and the only reason we even cared was because we were lied to about the nature of their existence.
That said, I've seen lots of people throw out ideas for alternate endings, and literally anything is better than the nothing we got.

And another thing: goose makes it very clear that there's no coming back from abstraction, only to spend HALF of the finale teasing that maybe abstraction can be reversed, only to immediately go back to it can't be reversed.
SO THEN WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT ENTIRE SEQUENCE? Just more expo dumping about a character who is dead and it has no impact on the rest of the story. Also first abstraction is what happens when you go crazy, then it's something that Caine does either by accident or malice when he's fucking with the cast, now it's actually a form of suicide/ego death. It's clear that goose didn't bother to think any of this through, that's why there are so many inconsistencies and plot holes. He was making shit up as he went along, changing established rules when it suit the story.

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How did Gangle and Zooble know how to set up an abstraction funeral for Kaufmo when nobody had abstracted since they had been there? And no, the other faces on the doors in Episode 1 can't be who they've seen, as they aren't included on the mural at the end.

And why did Ragatha make it sound like a regular tradition to do a funeral when she would have only done Ribbit's, and it would have just been her, Kaufmo, and Kinger there? Why did those three apparently start ghosting Ribbit anyway if her only issue was Jax being a shit?

>>154296080
Except we see him accessing the brainscan files and creating the first circus cast member. So he had to have known they weren't real, HE MADE THEM.
Which is why it's so odd that he's surprised to see Pomni join the circus in the first episode. He put her there!
There is ZERO consistency because goose is a hack writer. He tried to write a mystery, but doesn't know any of the rules for writing one.

>>154296158
I watched the finale last night and there's a short scene where Jax loudly asks Ragatha about a movie or something when Ribbit is approaching (Ribbit is shown limping away while Ragatha replies) so I'm just assuming Jax monopolizes Ragatha's attention so nobody notices Ribbit.

>>154296158
You're thinking about it harder than the author did.

>>154295938
>They are software, but killing caine actually destabilized the world and they realize they need to figure out how to fix it so they do not perish
Yeah I think this would've been a good way to do the "life is meaningless but it's still worth living" trope that they ended up doing anyways just poorly.

>>154294526
Jax is a faggot

>>154295826
The obvious set-up from the previous episode was Bubble as the true big bad. There's a reason why there was a surge of Ringmaster Bubble fanart after that episode ended.
>Red dot (Caine) tried to eat Blue dot (Able) to protect the humans when he saw he was a threat
>Bubble keeps whispering in ears to cause them to abstract, and let Caine take the blame, even doing it to Caine himself at the end
>waits for Kinger to get the computer and tricks him using his limited control to delete Caine
>Bubble takes control of the circus and immediately starts to expose Jax's secrets to try and give him the final push
>the group have to restore Caine to finish Bubble for good, rather than Caine just crawling out of the recycle bin himself
And so on until your happy ending

In the end, Bubble doesn't even appear in the final episode

I have nothing to say OP but you summarized my thoughts perfectly. The series is a complete failure when it comes to the writing.

>>154292602
Abstraction is not just suicide, it's mental illness, or being gay or other stuff.

Sometimes, it's a part of you, and if you get rid of it, you face something maybe worse then death.

>>154292671
They did waste a lot of potential and possibilities.

I made a BIG post in other thread.


Honestly if you ignore most of end of last ep, you could basically make another season (or 10) of some better plot stuff.

Give it to Alex Hirsch (gravity falls) or something

>>154292870
>souls aren't le real
edgy

>>154292589
The board etiquette is to never post any kind of images of east origin from China Japan Mongolia North Korea South Korea Taiwan and Hong Kong. It is 0co/'s number one rule. Always report any avatarfagging , "reaction" images and all that from those countries. So no anime, manhwa, Chinese shit, etc

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>>154293037
>but this is the finale of an indie cartoon that has found such worldwide success that is has over a billion views spread across just 9 episodes. This is a landmark event.
From a Tranny?
Man that is fucking GRIMDARK of the GRIMMEST DARK if true. Modern animation is never getting better.

>>154292589
>I can not believe that a series that, for the first few episodes, had me feeling shivers and rewatching every single one over and over again, had such a wet fart of an ending that I was watching in contempt, stopping every minute or so, just wishing it would be over already, wondering how I ever liked this thing.
>For the record, I am someone who always gives endings a chance. There is often a disparity between what you percieve the work to be at first and what it really is. I am a gainax/trigger/khara fan, so I often lament myself when viewers close their hearts to a work just because it did not turn out the way they expected...
>But... no matter how I look at this, this ending does not match the story at all, nor the build up, and shows some really strange delusions the creator of this show has.
I swear, half the people acting like the ending was the worst thing ever were watching the series with their ears plugged. Basically every problem that existed in the ending was present from the start of the show.
TADC's script was never good. There have been good moments, but taken as a whole, every episode has been mediocre writing-wise. Dialogue is stilted and super on-the-nose, pacing is a mess, characters will act in service of the plot Gooseworx wanted to push them through even if it means they have to act like total idiots to make it work.

There's not even an explanation of why there was a random flash grenade left in the bedroom corridor. That alone is the perfect example of how the series is moments without any serious attempt at cohesion.

Why does not caine just make his own sentient npcs, he was clearly capable of that with the aligator

>>154296561
Not the OP but it genuinely feels like a spell was put on me or something. I've ignorantly fallen for bad storytelling before, but never like this. I think partly because I knew this was influenced by IHNMAIMS, the concepts just seemed so magnetic. I honestly think Goose just fell ass backwards into gold and had no fucking idea what she was working with.
But yeah, on reflection, it was never good. And I'm someone who will very happily rewatch the first couple of seasons of Lost despite how badly the show peters out, because that shit's just good character drama regardless of how ridiculous it ends up becoming. But I don't see myself ever rewatching an episode of TADC after knowing how it ends, because now it all just feels like a fucking accident.

>>154296741
>I honestly think Goose just fell ass backwards into gold and had no fucking idea what she was working with.
same story with Toby Fox

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>>154296741
Yeah, the issue with shows like these is that the discussion and a lot of fan content produced during the months-wide gaps make them seem deeper than they actually are. In the end they're just a product.

>>154296800
Anon don't fucking tell me that, I'm like an hour away from finishing Undertale 10 years late

>>154292589
As a Trigger fan, what did you think of Space Patrol Luluco?

>>154296816
Undertale is actually a nice finished experience, I'm more worried about where Deltarune is going

>>154296816
yeah like that other anon said, Undertale is all right.
but everything he's done since just really shows he's clueless.

>>154292602
>the imagery is very clear that their "soul" has entered the circus
Head cannon.

>>154293555
Creators and fans being in the same space for multiple hours a day has tainted the well. GRRM talked about this before, that once the two are in the same space it starts affecting your work. Clearly he was speaking from experience considering how he just gave up after seeing the S8 GoT reactions (which was a shitty adaption of the story he had planned).

>>154296830
I honestly think it was one of the worst PoS anime I have seen. All style, no substance.

>>154295155
Land of the Lustrous had such an amazing ending. I cried.

>>154296741
>I think partly because I knew this was influenced by IHNMAIMS, the concepts just seemed so magnetic.
I'm immune to this because concepts don't impress me.
>>154296816
There's no comparison, Toby's works have been consistently great. One or two weak points here and there, but on the whole still very good.

>>154295130
Its inspired more by Twilight Zone "Five Characters in Search of an Exit", Goose just didnt say that because it would kinda spoil the 'they were never real people' twist

>>154296912
>Toby's works have been consistently great.
i see someone is very impressed by barebones Zelda clones and rotating Kirby towers lol
maybe in another 5 years when chapter 6 releases, it'll have a Bubble Bobble segment!
always a good sign when a 2D, turn-based, tile-based JRPG takes a decade to make.

>>154296741
>she

>>154296873
I do wonder what would have happenes if after the pilot Goose and the crew locked themselves out of the internet and worked on the rest of the series with Glitch giving them as much time and as many episodes as they needed, would that have made the show's final episodes better?
I am sure that it would have still had been a glorified therapy session, but maybe it would have helped Goose's state of mind to at least maybe get another story in the future.

>>154296912
I think the genocide route is the only 8/10 thing toby has ever done, everything else is not up to the same standards.

>>154296832
It doesnt matter where its going, the 'problem' (really the opposite of a problem financially speaking), is how much people build up Deep Lore series in their heads when there's too long of a gap between installments

>>154292602
>>They are all just programs
>This ruins the story.
While not too fond of this show overall, I disagree. The point is that any notion of "escape" was an illusion. They can't escape the computer world any more than a real person can escape the world of material physics that we live in. They were "born" into this world and it's the only "real" thing for them. Wanting to "escape" is pointless and they should just make the best of their situation.

>>154292602
People who didn't clock SOMA theory from Episode 1 onwards have soup for brains.

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>>154292602
>very clear that their "soul" has entered the circus
retard

>>154296741
Can't wait for Gameoverse to disappoint me when Kit does something pusillanimous like after discovering he was directly involved in her world ending she decides to not kill Fold because of muh she would just become like him/by killing him she will doom this world.

>>154293026
They had another Star Wars on their hands but fumbled it so they went insane.

>>154296968
Genocide route is worthless edgy crap that breaks the believability of the world.
"Ah yes, somehow the act of going around killing random monsters for no reason while possessed by the ghost of an 8 year old makes this ghost so powerful that they become god and choose to end the world because, uh..."
It's a miracle Undertale's world has survived so long seeing how easy it is for random murderers to become God.

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>>154296995
Agree, but they should have revealed the ''twist'' early in the story instead of awkwardly delivering it 5 minutes into the finale.
Have the characters actually come to terms with their fake pasts that still shaped who they were, will Ragatha still let her mother influence her life now that she knows she's not Suzie? Will Kinger take responsibility for the creation of Caine and the Circus even if technically it was Grant's fault? And so on.

>>154293455
yeah 2 more episodes would have been perfect

>>154296600
I fucking love the asspull grenades. It's the same hallway people go to sleep. Not a single person spotted and tidied them away?

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>>154297045
That whole aspect of Undertale is more that (You) are the one who's breaking the world rather than Chara and Frisk. (You) are separate from both Frisk and Chara, and so your determination to go through the genocide route is separate. Chara states as such at the end of the genocide route. Chara taking control of the SOUL away from you isn't Chara literally possessing you, but the reflection of your own desire to break the world just to get more content out of it cannibalizing you (literally in the jumpscare scene).
Although I agree that part of the game is not explained very well. It's something that's been overridden by fanon shit for years now, and I think those kinds of themes are what Toby's trying to better capture with Deltarune's Weird Route.

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>>154296600
Still cracks me up that they left this shit in the hallway for three episodes straight, I like to think they forgot to update the model and just said "fuck it, Jax steps on a flashbang"

>>154292782
Same desu

>>154295108
>>154295155
what's a good anime/magna with similar premise of TADC but with a satisfying ending?
I really really fuck with digital mindscapes being mental prisons for it's occupants

>>154293571
Jax was already a low level sociopath, having his beliefs confirmed would only push him to act like an even bigger sociopath until he self-destructs because there's nothing for him to trying to pretend to be normal for

>>154292602
>They are all just programs
>This ruins the story
I don't agree, but I HATE when stories go that way since we care about the real people. The initial premise can easily be that true still, the only difference is that their consciousness or soul is "streamed" like SAO or is fully digitized like Digimon. Sometimes both ways is done like Ghost in the Shell. In this case, the crew are fully digitized, where the original brain didn't die. The fact that they are "copies" of their original is eternally present in all sci fi media that has "mind transfers" and "Star Trek style teleportation", so I don't agree that they are just code, it's still people. The horror is still real

This is reinforced by the author with Cain gathering their real selves internet footprints, because the twist doesn't change the fact that we, the audience, care about the real people. We now care about all versions of the real people. In a way, the digital circus cast are just alternative fake timelines.
>If it is all just software and mind files, it should be trivially easy to fix abstractions. Kinger said the files are relatively small, and kane obviously can fix abstracted part of characters. It does not really make sense that abstractions are the way they are.
No, no, absolutely not. Abstraction is still a mystery in itself that's never officially solved. That the files are small doesn't trivialize anything. Gantz has deemed the human soul that reincarnates it's only a few megabytes in data in its grand finale in the manga. Westworld reveals datadumping the human mind is far less complicating than ai mind as a way to say humanity is just that simple and barbaric that their complex minds are actually just built on simple routines as revealed on season 2(I'm sure this is the main influence for the author for the small file thing, desu. In Westworld, copying the mind and putting it in a host makes the mind go insane and was a goal for investors for that process to be succeed).

>>154292942
Kinger is way too young to be grandfather

>>154297346
Madoka isn't digital mindscape stuff, but the concept of abstractions is similarly done. The mindscape stuff with jax reminded me a lot of homuras stuff in the rebellion movie.
The issue with mindscapes in anime is that its all isekai slop. They toy with the idea of the protag and others freaking out being stuck, only to swiftly get over it when they realize they are the super strongest bestest person actually.

>>154297346
Dennou Coil and Id Invaded both have similar concept, even Lain in a way.

>>154295108
I didn't expect good ending from Death Note since that timeskip. In general WSJ slop is likely to have shit endings because they love both dragging manga out and cancelling them as soon as they fall down in popularity, and working authors to the bone until they're burned-out wrecks.

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>is the only program to abstract because he realized he wasn't real

So was Kaufmo just a fucking pussy or what

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I'm scared of becoming the next goose
I'm scared of making a story you people hate this passionately that I just wanna give up and kill myself because you fuckers are all cowards that refuse to kill yourselves despite saying how much everything sucks. What gives you meaning in life? Watching wrecked videos of trannies? Fuck off. You guys are the smartest people in the universe, you should know how to make your own stories that are better than trannytherapyjew slop or whatever. So please make them

>>154297505
>The issue with mindscapes in anime is that its all isekai slop.
I don't think any of the isekai are mindscape, even when it's video games it's not actually inside a place that reflects their fears and stuff like that. The rebellion movie is a good fit(but you are basically spoiling it). Thoughts on my examples >>154297510

>>154295108
This is hella offtopic now. But if the anime has hot people in it you goon to, and the art is top tier, it's not like it's a waste to watch. Trannies love gooning to anime. You're supposed to

>>154296217
Caine made a "game world" that brainscans automatically go to when they've been uploaded into the computer
The groundwork has already been completed, Caine doesn't make new bodies anymore because the Circus does that for him
The Digital Circus is just some VR Chat Virtual World where you don't need to make an avatar for your character because it's more advanced and does it for you by going through your personality traits and making an avatar through that, so you get stuff like Pomni being a Jester because she wants to make other people feel better and Zooble being a bunch of random parts because she doesn't like her body and struggles with her identity

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>>154292589
Believe me, arguing on YouTube is without a doubt the most tedious, annoying, and frustrating thing you can do.

For any reason, they shadow-censor your comments.
Even with the best manners, you can't see your replies unless you go to the most recent comments.

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>>154295108
After watching beastars and csm fuck up so spectacularly, I have come to realize there are no good shonen endings. Besides FMA.
Either the show goes on forever (dbz, one piece) or the writers get bored and just phone it in (basically everything else).
Basically what I'm trying to say is if you want good endings watch any other genre.

>>154297524
Wsj has a lot of shit but also made some great stuff in the past like slam dunk, hikaru no go(even better art than death note) and gintama.

>>154297534
But no really. It was fucking retarded that they already established that people probably go insane after learning the truth about what actually happened to them

Only for the entire main cast to basically not give a single shit and get over it almost immediately

>>154295108
Chainsaw Man was good fuck you

>>154297614
> no good shonen endings.
Souboutei must be destroyed? It had a phenomenal ending

>>154292602
>>154292589
Anon you're fucking retarded and you were making up your own story to project onto the show. You are functionally illiterate.

>>154296905
Oh come on anon, it's not THAT bad. It does feel like a compromised vision though, I'll say that much about it.

>>154292854
Here is your sanity check:
You lack sanity. Also empathy. Also a basic understanding of story structure.

>>154297640
Haven't seen it. I guess what I should have said is than they have a pretty high failure rate when it comes to decent endings. Other genres (except for maybe haremslop) generally fare better on average. The fact OP listed out a bunch of shonen being ball droppers isn't really surprising.

>>154297665
Maybe he just didn’t like the humor, different strokes for different folks

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>>154297505
>The issue with mindscapes in anime is that its all isekai slop. They toy with the idea of the protag and others freaking out being stuck, only to swiftly get over it when they realize they are the super strongest bestest person actually
clearly, you haven't been watching peak

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Was it worth it?

>>154293092
This level of ego-protection is downright pathological. You are literally incapable of accepting that you might have been wrong.

That's very sad.

>>154297683
By shonen you mean "battle shonen"? Because shonen as a whole is a demographic. For battle shonen wsj is just a death trap I agree, other more sane shonen magazines have better endings.

>>154293977
Its obvious they meant they want to personally give Jax a slightly better dignity than just throwing him in the cellar

>>154297695
NTA
Re:Zero is almost as trashy and awful as SAO

>>154297699
Even if I think tadc had pretty shit writing, I don't see anything wrong with a child enjoying it.

>>154297628
That never happened and you are dumb

>>154297695
I watched until he 'escaped' the first loop and then stopped. This is the same thing where the protog has an OP cheat spell. They just pretend there are stakes with the whole "what if I get disabled and don't die" angle. Which I'm sure some variation of eventually happens in the show, but he's the protag, obviously he's getting out of it eventually.
Has a lot of the generic tropes of the genre, like having his cell phone and being in a pretty generic fantasy world.

>>154297462
This idea you have that the digital people "aren't real" and shouldn't matter to the viewer is absurd and likely tied to a whole host of retarded assumptions you personally have made that you're projecting.

I'm four minutes in and it's already dogshit. Everyone's just fucking crying and there's still a little less than an hour left, I mean God damn it.

>>154297770
That's basically the whole episode minus one funny road runner gag scene. Enjoy.

>>154297746
They spelled it out in this episode and the first with the squiggles on the wall that Kaufmo abstracted after figuring out the truth.

But nobody really even gave a shit about not being real so the main takeaway is that Kaufmo just should have gotten over it

THERE'S A FUCKING MONTAGE FUCK

>[weeping softly]
Fuck me

>>154297799
Kaufmo didn't figure out the truth, we have no idea why he abstracted except that he had become obsessed with finding an exit

If your analysis involves you making shit up it's not a good analysis

>>154297176
>That whole aspect of Undertale is more that [dumb metacommentary]
Yes and that's my problem. Metacommentary is boring unless you're a baby who's never reflected about his relationship with media before. Like it's still basically fine other than the ending breaking everything so badly, but other than the novelty and that one cool boss at the end there's nothing much going for it.
The weird route is somewhat better so far because (you) are actually explicitly a character in the world, but I'm still not convinced it will have anything worthwhile to say beyond more metacommentary crap.

>>154296998
No one is going to have any idea what that is unless you play that specific obscure indie game

>>154297768
It's a good thing that's the exact opposite of what I said

>>154297887
"Soma" is just a shorthand for brainscans, which soma didn't invent it's just a "baby's first" introduction to them. You can still understand the concept of brainscans without playing that game.

>>154296998
OP is just some schizo homeschooled hyperchristian that can't handle being wrong and can't muster an ounce of empathy. Their entire rant is just "I don't care about these people because I don't think they have souls and therefore their emotions don't matter".

It's less a criticism of the show and more an airing out of anon's personal biases and failings.

>>154297865
You could just fucking read the literal writing on his wall and find out that he figured out there was no way out. He abstracted after finding out the truth

And even if he didn't, guess what? It's still shit that nobody gave a damn about figuring out they're not real

>>154297755
you should have kept watching, it gets way better and uses the loop mechanic to explore the characters and especially the protagonist's psychology in ways you wouldn't expect for the genre plus the puzzle of each scenario and how he will figure it out is the point/appeal not whether or not he will survive; it's a mystery box/escape room type of show in reality NOT a GoT-esque 'will the protagonist(s) get killed off' dark fantasy or a 'fantasy adventure getting from destination A to B' show even though it plays with elements of both, nor is it a powerscaling/power fantasy isekai with a harem etc like many others
>but he's the protag, obviously he's getting out of it eventually
missing the point and you could say this for literally any story ever
>They just pretend there are stakes with the whole "what if I get disabled and don't die" angle
the stakes are 'will he make it out of this as a changed man for the better or worse and which character relationships will survive by the end' NOT 'will he die or not' his power is return by death, him not dying is literally the whole premise lol

>>154297928
Pardon me. Google gave me false information

>>154297880
I think Undertale took off because it was able to use that metacommentary to tell a heartfelt story. Keep in mind that it released during a time where fourth wall breaks in video games were still a very new thing to the demographic Undertale caters to, and typically they were just used in horror (like "imscared"). Undertale stood out because it was able to take a basic mechanic that people typically didn't think much about (having save files for your game) and constructing a whole story around it.
On that note I think that's why the Genocide route doesn't really stand on the same level as everything else in Undertale.
I personally like the Weird Route because it's clear that Kris's main issues are their guilt and lack of agency, and the Weird Route allows you to, instead of helping them along, attack them with their greatest weaknesses.

>>154297964
>He did too! The proof is him scribbling no way out! That couldn't possibly be a sign of stress from an obsessive search! That is 100% explicit proof that abstraction is a result of finding out you're a brain scan!
You're retarded.
>This is bad because -I- would have reacted differently!
You're retarded.

>>154292602
Almost every big complaint about TADC has been about "theories" that you can only come up with if you're a retard ignoring the 3rd grade level in-your-face writing being proven wrong
You misinterpret the series and decide it's bad instead of realizing you were wrong

>>154297080
Man you kids really have a fucked concept of identity
Of course Kinger is still Grant. That was still his past.
What made you kids like this?

>>154297938
>anon writes extensive criticisms of things like the plot structure and actual plot holes
>(You): you're just saying that because [some weird made-up headcanon about an internet stranger] [personal attack out of nowhere]
people who argue like this don't realize how unintelligent and bad it makes them look
why can't you just engage with anon's points
it doesn't make you look cool like you're Sherlock Holmes and have everybody figured out or something, it just makes you look mental

>>154298052
This.
It's a pattern I've noticed among a lot of young people today: you're incredibly quick to leap to wild conclusions and then when those conclusions are contradicted you're incapable of amending them.

>>154298063
Anon just because you wrote a lot of words doesn't mean your criticism was extensive (and no you didn't touch on structure at all)

Your complaint is simply "I don't care about brain scan people because I don't consider them human and refuse to emphasize with them"
That's wholly a you problem and has fuck-all to do with the actual show.

>>154298019
>Kaufmo says he found a way out
>Abstracts and scribbles "no way out" on his wall
>"Kaufmo did not abstract after figuring out the truth"
Retard. Nobody said people only abstract after figuring out the truth. Kaufmo is the only that did. Everyone else didn't give a shit,cried, and got over it

>I would have reacted differently
Not a single person really gave a shit about finding out that they're not real. You're retarded for even pretending like this is just solid writing

I'm not even sure which trans is Jax supposed to be. His trauma dump suggests he's biologically male and his mom compares him to his dad. But that would mean he been "not her true self" this whole time in the circus. What was the point of identifying the pronoun she hates.

But if Jax is biologically female.And is actively living the gender he wants to be, making the stripping the skin of male clothes make sense,wouldn't what Ribbit did accidentally mean she was EXTREMELY transphobic with the bow?

>>154298126
>I can't read
Neat
>They didn't care!
>Cut to close up of Ragatha breaking down while revealing she already assumed that to be the case
Did you even wat-
Who am I kidding it doesn't matter if you watched it your brain retains information like a colander retains water

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i feel like i'm an idiot but when the frog put the bow on jax's head i didn't see that as her saying "hey its cool, you can dress like a woman around me if you want" but more like a cute jokey thing a girl would do before you smooch each other and have sex, the trans stuff completely flew over my head until the creator put it in a comments section, i don't suddenly dislike it now that it has a trans character but it just feels like i watched a different show than what was intended

>>154298132
What's not to get?
Jax was a closeted mtf that couldn't accept their own identity
It's not subtle

>>154298173
>Knew the entire time
>Cried
>Got over it
>Never even got close to abstracting

Congrats for proving my point

>>154298126
>Not a single person really gave a shit about finding out that they're not real.
If you're going to call people retards. At least don't be Uber retarded. There's literally a timelapse where an extraordinary amount of time passed by for people to deal with their hopelessness of never going home. Their initial reactions for 5/7 of the cast is utter defeat. Kinger is already bat shit insane, which is established from day 1.

>>154298194
Brother they literally play "Isn't She Lovely"
How are people this bad at understanding text
It's not even subtext it's the very explicit text

>>154298103
go and re-read the anon's posts again and come back when you have fully absorbed and memorized the points they made because you clearly haven't and then argue against them properly

Some anon said Jax is an Afghanistan war vet, and this whole "he's a tranny", "wahh my dad didn't care" gimmick is convincing me of it.

>>154298208
Anon you may have brain problems because this is evidence that abstraction does not come from learning SOMA
They never established anything like that
You are an idiot

>>154298194
You were given a warning when Goose said Jax was a self insert

>>154298245
>Go back and re-read anon jettisoning the entire story because THEY AIN'T GOT NO SOULS
Nah I got it the first time
Consider drowning

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>>154298232
i get it man, i just thought it was a nice romantic even cheeky song choice for the moment of jax being "born" as an abstracted monster, i'm not thinking about the gender of the baby being referenced in the stevie wonder song, it would be weird if they changed the lyrics to "isn't he lovely"

>>154298056
>you kids
Ah yeah, TADC the show whose main audience is sophisticated adults.
They are effectively two different people living parallel lives now.
Some of them may embrace their brain donor's memories but others may come to a completely different conclusion because guess what? It plays with a philosophical question about what makes 'you', 'you' that arises from this particular sci-fi setting. It's just that the creator didn't care about that.

>>154298194
It's not even a subtle on-the-nose detail, it's a fucking offense to the viewer's intelligence.

>>154298223
>There's a time lapse
Where they do literally nothing but fuck around with blocks. And afterwards they all don't give a shit and I'm supposed to assume they were all actually depressed but got over it in like a couple days . It's the worst written part of the finale other than the fucking Jax montage and Caine ripping the bad part of his brain out

>>154298274
they didn't say that, you clearly didn't understand what they wrote
try again
you are seemingly incapable of actually engaging with opposing opinions and arguing against them properly

>>154298280
>They are separate people now
Operative word being NOW
One being split into two
Kinger's past as Grant is not a donation or a trick or an illusion, it is his past.
>It plays with the question....
No, not really, it's pretty basic from both a theoretical and an emotional point of view. The idea that someone would go "oh my trauma doesn't matter because I don't have a real body now!" is fucking laughable

>>154298232
"Jax is trans" was considered stupid by some and when it stopped being a theory and became a part of Jax character people couldn't believe it and coped that it was a romance song between Jax and Pomni
I thought it was stupid and still think so but the creator is trans and Zooble is already some gender fluid whatever so I'm not gonna put up a fight when the trans author is going 2 for 2 with the Bow scene and the Fancam segment

>>154298309
>Nuh uh!
This is sad.
Also stop pretending you're a second anon. It's pathetic.

>>154297640
Fujita writes great endings in general, I don't know about Gekkou Jourei but all his other longrunners were good

>>154298249
Retard. Nobody said that. Kaufmo abstracted because he found out the truth. Ribbit abstracted because her weird boyfriend broke up with her.

When everyone else found out they're not real, they didn't give a shit and got over it. Why the fuck did Caine not just tell them this if it didn't mean shit in the end?

>>154292625
>Why did Kane not just tell them that they are his programs? It would have made things a lot easier for him
Are you autistic

>>154298195
It's confusing of what the intent is here. Because it comes off that a trans person is the worst person of the show because of body dismorphia. There's already body dismorphia thrown with Pomni already. I was so sure she was the trans character when I first read spoiler of trans presence this month.

>>154298357
>Nobody said that!
>>154297628
>It was fucking retarded that they already established that people probably go insane after learning the truth about what actually happened to them

Am I arguing with chatbots or are you kids genuinely this stupid?

>>154298327
>Kinger's past as Grant is not a donation or a trick or an illusion, it is his past.
it isn't his past because it literally never happened to him. Kinger is a wacky looking chess piece man who came into existence the moment Caine spawned him in the circus. He has the memories of some human that he is not actually a continuum of in any real sense.
>The idea that someone would go "oh my trauma doesn't matter because I don't have a real body now!" is fucking laughable
No, it's actually
>oh my trauma doesn't matter because it's literally not even my own trauma and never really happened to me
Kinger's trauma is ONLY that he saw Queenie and others abstract, not whatever happened to some guy called Grant that he has no actual relation with

>>154297626
Yeah, there are some exceptions that manage to finish on a high note. Haven't read Gintama, but Slam Dunk was good, and Hikaru was good until the international tournament arc, that just felt forced and ended randomly. In general there were many WSJ manga that I feel would've been good if they ended earlier.

>>154298232
>a song about a father openly expressing the love he feels for his newborn daughter and family
>juxtaposed with the death of a man who refused to let himself be vulnerable with and grow attached to anybody until it was far too late
I think it still works if you consider Jax to be cis but having severe masculinity issues. With what we get out of Jax's backstory it actually makes the most sense.

>>154298384
>It's confusing what the intent was here
....is it? It seems incredibly cut and dry to me.
Jax was an abused closeted mtf with fucked up notions of masculinity from his parents and a problem with extreme repression and emotional avoidance that made him lash out at anyone trying to connect with him.

Are you confused because a trans person wasn't portrayed as a perfect woobie who dindu nuffin? What baggage are you bringing into this that's making you confused by this extremely straightforward premise?

>>154298389
Yes. Normally people would go insane after finding out they're not fucking real and are trapped in digital hell. Which is why Kaufmo died

Nobody fucking said the only reason people abstract is because they found out the truth. The final episode just skips over them coping with not being real and they're just suddenly ok. Even fucking Gumigoo had more of a reaction to finding out his life was fake

>>154292821
The thing is you can say this for like any story about changing (read: every fucking story ever) because being transgender is when you change something about yourself. What would a trans story look like for it to not be twisted by anyone into someone just writing about transition?

>>154292602
>>They are all just programs
They're like JPGs, not programs, but it's correct to be upset that it's not explained well. You'd think that they'd come into the game knowing they were a copy of their real selves before they were scanned in. Like Kinger knows he's code, but the rest couldn't separate that and so their bodies fell apart under the stress.
>> extremely impactful analog to suicide
Biggest flaw of the show is how the staff has to keep explaining that Abstraction ISN'T suicide in tweets but the show still treats it as such. The funerals and the anxiety of knowing you can't come back. If they didn't want it to be suicide/death, then they should've said so in the show and not in a tweet.
>>154292625
>>Kane
Caine (corrected the spelling) but he is actually GOD. He isn't just an goofy AI, but actually the christian god, and the commentary on he keeps really weird rules and makes you constantly praise him in order to keep him happy. God can't be deleted, he was just tucked away but it was poorly explained for sure.
>>154292671
>>FIY, I hate jax
Valid man. I'm a bad reader, but I did read what you wrote. Your crash out if valid, just had a few extra thoughts to add to your rant. Ending didn't stick sadly, but that's ok for everyone.

Is anyone in this show not schizophrenic?

>>154298352
nuh uh, re-read the other different anon's posts again and then come back, they raised a lot more good points than what you are claiming they did
you are boxing a strawman and doing it poorly

>>154292589
>awful
It wasnt good or bad
It just was
The caine stuff was better than the jax stuff

>>154298398
>It never happened to him
Yes, yes it did. You're just wrong and stupid.
He absolutely has a continuous experience from his life as Grant to his split into Kinger.

This is all EXTREMELY well-worn territory and you being green is not my problem. Take a philo class or some shit.

>>154297551
Good, that's how you should feel.
>can you do better?
i'd get a beta reader to stop me from being retarded

>>154298420
My brother in christ Jax is the girl being born.
You literally have to try to read things this poorly.

>>154298327
So you think that if, let's say, 100 completely different people in the real world just discovered they were copies who spawned into existence 2 months ago, they'd all accept that they are the exact same person, flaws and all, as their original? No one would have doubts or change their worldview at all?
And what if you discovered there's an exact copy of you with your exact memories in an alternate universe but different current experiences? Would you still feel that they are 'you'?

>>154297551
Shut the fuck up, Caine.