The single worst EiC in Marvel history. Every single flagship franchise is worse for his influence, and he filled the entire editorial leadership with his toadies so everything before him was erased and nothing made by him is allowed to be touched or altered in any way. He's like Stalin, but much smaller and sadder.
That's how elon musk looks now?Damn.
>>154336050What is it with artists who can't write or writers who can't write becoming editors?
>>154337915Kicked upstairs.
>>154337915They sucked the right dicks.
>>154336050In here before that one anon: hArRaS wAs JuSt As BaD!
>ITT anon talking to himself
>>154339465It's the only intelligent conversation.
Marvel's recently basis has cost them a ton of potential new readers.
>>154336050if he hadn't saved marvel it would have ended up sold to warners and turned into snyder foodno mcu, no phase one when it was fun and enjoyablesuperman ripping cap in half because he's "just learning to be a hero">>154336364fpbp
>>154340979He turned Marvel into Maury.Just sleazy daytime television.
>>154337915Just because you can't write or draw doesn't mean you don't know how to suck
>>154341066Marvel under Stan Lee in the 60s was basically 60s Maury. I'm sorry you're too big a pussy to handle anything harder than "LET US VOTE AS PER OUR CHARTER BYLAWS IF WE WILL REVOKE WARBIRD'S AVENGERS ID CARD DUE TO HER ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION!"
>>154341182>Marvel was always an exploitation rag!I don't think you want to go down that road Bub.
>>154341182>Marvel under Stan Lee in the 60s was basically 60s Maury.The go-to argument by Quesada defenders hoping no one goes back and reads comics made before Quesada became EIC
>>154341252Reading shit from the 80's is so weird. They act like fully functioning adults and not overgrown teenagers.
>>154341252The drama in early Marvel comics was what made them stand out from DC, the in-fighting, losing their temper, not being perfect, all that shit Stan put in the comics is what made Marvel what it is. You could argue the biggest problem Marvel has right now is that their characters have lost their balls, specifically Spider-Man and the X-Men. But I dunno maybe that's what the audience wants...or more likely the majority of this thread is just one anon samefagging
>>154339407Reminder Harras demanded baby May and Mary Jane's deaths be ambiguous, not because he wanted a back door in case it didn't work out but because he wanted to keep rope-a-doping fans into continuing to read the book in the hopes those things would one day be resolved but had zero intention of ever having those two things be resolved. Much like what Amazing Spider-Man has been doing for at least ten years. But yeah, Harras was so much better.
>>154341252the ones that basically killed the company in the 1990s? the ones that to this day the artists and writers of swear were selling millions because of story and design and not because a fucking investment bubble started?
>>154336050i gauge my opinion based on x-men and it can be argued that it was declining but x-men i don't think really plummeted until after Quesada left and bendis was getting more involved. uncanny x-force was the last x-men run that everyone can mostly agree on was good
>>154341425Read >>154341275 and read the books prior to his stint as EIC and during and tell us what you just said again.
>>154341491>hoping no one goes back and reads comics made before Quesada became EIC>the ones that basically killed the company in the 1990s?I wasn't aware the 60s-80s comics were the ones that basically killed the company in the 90s.
>>154339407man you called it
>>154339407>hArRaS wAs JuSt As BaD!That would be wrong, because he was objectively worse by every possible metric. Under his EIC tenure Marvel sunk to its lowest lows ever. By 2000 when he left every single Marvel line was in absolute shambles. That's exactly how Quesada got the role after him, he helped lead Marvel out of that dark period. That's not saying he didn't go on to do his own awful fuckups, but he inarguably helped save the company.
>>154340979this is what the marvel intern with a altar to quesada at the offices thinks, when it is a lie.
Here come the swarm of unpaid Marvel interns...
>>154341604>this is what the marvel intern with a altar to quesada at the offices thinksYou do know that Quesada left Marvel like twenty years ago, right?
>>154341652This board is so irrelevant to anything anymore that the idea any company would send even unpaid interns here is laughable.
>>154341664You and his cronies are still shilling his brand of TMZ Marvel.
>>154341677Shilling this for free is even sadder.
>>154341491What killed DC AND MARVEL IN THE 90'S WAS THE FUCKING COLLECTOR AND SPECULATOR BUBBLE, BECAUSE THE RETARDS CANT CONTROL THEMSELVES.Also Image delivered a better product.
>>154341534I've been reading Marvel since the Peter's parents saga and Jim Lee's X-Men #1 in 1991. Quesada has his share of retardation but to act like he's the worst thing to happen to Marvel is just ridiculous anger about comics no longer being in the Bronze Age. I was there when Quesada came into Marvel and made all these changes like Ultimate, JMS on Spider-Man, Morrison on X-Men, the MAX line, all that. There was a ton of vitriol from fans online because Quesada was dragging Marvel into the 21st century and away from the outdated, overly verbose style of writing and house style art. Change makes nerds uneasy and anything that makes nerds uneasy is tantamount to blasphemy so Quesada got blasted hard online. But sales spiked by a significant amount across the board, even to things that hadn't sold well in over a decade like Fantastic Four and Avengers. But, again, Psylocke no longer started every panel she appeared in with "THE FOCUSED TOTALITY OF MY TELEPATHIC GIFTS" and fans got mad.
>>154341711>different opinion>must be a shillHas your autism been diagnosed by a professional?
>>154341809>it's just a different opinion guys!Shills always resort to this
>>154341688>his brand of TMZ MarvelWhen Burton's Batman came out were you one of the uncs all pissed off it was a dark take on the character, not the colorful camp of the TV show?
>>154341720But that didn't happen by accident. Marvel especially actively cultivated and chased the speculator market. Their leadership, including Harras, pushed the books to take advantage of it. Things like the Spider-Clone debacle were a direct result of the leadership forcing stories to go on longer than needed to keep sales pumped.
>>154341831Explain this
>>154341720what shifted those comics was not the people working on them or the stories they were telling, yes, it was pure stupid greed from idiots who really thought foil variants would be worth somethingthose stories weren't good though, they were bad, and that meant nobody stuck around even though they'd been selling millions as they keep bragging todayI mean look the bottom line is those Image assholes don't sell millions, shit the last time Liefeld came back to Marvel I don't think he even sold five figures, and that was 20 years ago when you might reasonably have expected some nostalgia salesthose Image guys actively drove consumers out of the market, they were not goodand then they went and set up the biggest fuck-you to the creator rights movement they could
>>154341840>Whataboutism!Apples & Oranges.
>>154341770You spew that same tired bullshit every thread.
Wowsers this is so hip and deep y'all!
>>154341770So it's a good thing that She-Hulk's a whore and Spider-Man has made a deal with the Devil?
His influence and flunkies have turned ASM into this bizarre hamster-wheel petty fiefdom, completely out of step with the rest of the franchise where the real money and cultural impact is.
>>154342098And you create these threads and samefag in them despite not knowing what the fuck you’re talking about. You’re either literally 12 and just can’t comprehend the fact that people can have different thoughts and tastes from you or are middle aged and never grew out of the Bronze Age.
>>154342076>>154342098>>154342122>>154342153Samefag samefagging every samefag thread every week
>>154336050They wanted the barbwire tattoos & Axe body spray demographic.
OP, I think you broke this guy.>>154342203>>154342235
>>154342316You can't break a man whose already broken.
>>154341770>and away from the outdated, overly verbose style of writing and house style art.You mean he dumbed it down for people like yourself?
>>154342122This was written in the mid-2000s when dialogue like that was in fashion. It’s not like it was written in 1990s with Peter Parker saying “gosh gee willickers I still can’t believe that radioactive spider bit me and gave me the proportionate strength of a spider, wall crawling, and my trusty spider-sense!! I just wish I hadn’t been so selfish as to let that burglar go who later went on to murder my uncle Ben who was like a father to me!! Now I need to track down this senator because he sure has been acting funny! I just hope I get home in time so Mary Jane won’t be mad at me again!! Why can’t she understand that with great power comes great responsibility like my Uncle Ben, my father figure, told me?”
>>154341968>I mean look the bottom line is those Image assholes don't sell millionsRevisionist nonsense. They did, at one point, that's how they had the clout to do what they did. Not defending what they went on to do, but it's just wrong to say the Image crew wasn't responsible for the mega-sales of the late 80s, early 90s, they absolutely were.
>>154342316>>154342336Obvious samefag is obvious
>>154342306That was pretty much everyone in the early 2000s. It was a weird time.
Punisher MAX was the only good book during those times.
>>154342340The opposite, every panel with a specific character didn’t have the internal monologue of the character’s entire history and powers up to that point. We didn’t have Colossus shouting “Lenin’s ghost!” to remind us he’s Russian, Psylocke calling her psychic knife “THE PSYCHIC TOTALITY OF MY TELEPATHIC POWER”, Wolverine internal monologue about what a loner he is, or how much Tony Stark misses booze.
>>154342345Yeah it would be so much better of characters just said "ohmigosh" instead of all that pesky reading right?
>Like this is any different from the 90's.
>>154342345>This was written in the mid-2000s when dialogue like that was in fashion.People were making fun of it even back then.
>>154342368You wish, shill
>>154342456If I want to read a novel I’ll read a fucking novel, comics need to be a blend of art and writing, just because the writer couldn’t make it as a novelist doesn’t mean they need to ruin the flow of a comic with their shitty prose.
>>154342530Whatever samefag
>>154342496What! awkward exposition dumping in my sophisticated 2000's comic!?Why I never!
>>154342496Why does Jonah look so weird?
>>154342590>If I want to read a novel I’ll read a fucking novel,Is that why you have low media literacy?
>>154342496>I NEED MORE EXAMPLES OF BAD PAGES FROM THE QUESADA ERA!!>…but I can’t use the same ones I used from the last thread I made since I’ve already been called out as a samefag…>I know! I’ll just post more pages from Slott’s She Hulk! No one will ever know!!
>>154342625>buzz wordsOkay so you’re 12, got it
>>154342653>Y-you're 12Do you also get your arguing points from twitter screenshots too? Sounds like you're the pot calling the kettle black here
>>154336050Retard bullshit take by fans still butthurt over OMD.Marvel Knights, Ultimate Universe, and all the rest of the 00s Kino. Who would you rather have?Alonso? Harras? Fuck outa here.
>>154342677>unironically uses “media literacy”>accuses others of getting their arguing points from twitter
>>154342622They hired a random Mexican of the street to do the art. >>154342630Just admit you liked it back in the day, No shame.
Anons are nostalgic for this sleaze.
>>154342710Didn't answer the question.
>>154342696>Marvel Knights, Ultimate Universe, and all the rest of the 00s Kino. lmao
>>154342776poor samson became malfurion
>>154342625Comics have been mini novels for a while. And many books are novellas in comic form. Ilustrated books. Some comics can and should be verbose and play with words as much as it plays with the art. It can't all be quick pithy comic stories with some art in it. I would like to read a comic that reads like a well written horror, sci-fi, or drama story. There is a time and place for pithy bubble gum there is also a time for comics that are illustrated novella's.
>>154337915>writers who can't write becoming editors?It's more like through the 70s, 80s and 90s, the same circle of people were doing double duty as writers and editors at Marvel. After Shooter abolished the 'unwritten rule' that any former EIC could write books without editorial oversight, and abolished letting one guy be both writer and editor of the same book, due to the obvious conflict of interest, and that he'd be effectively getting paid twice for doing one job, we got decades of the editors hiring each other as writers and all the cronyism that went with it.We went straight from that to the new generation of editors Quesada brought in hiring their friends to be writers, so the cronyism never stopped, just the guys who were crap at writing didn't also get editorial jobs.
>>154339407Not really. It was a bad patch for various reasons, but most problems were surmountable and things could have been turned around easily enough. The people Quesada brought in basically ruined characters and books permanently for short term shock value.>>154341182Oh God it's that one prick making the exact same argument he always does and reeing about the one pre-Quesada Avengers comic he read having a superhero court martial scene in it.
>>154341528Morrison ruined X-Men on a conceptual level under Quesada's watch and the company has neither the will nor the ability to fix it.
>>154341599If that was saving the company they'd have been better off letting it die.
>>154341770Change isn't inherently good just because it's change, and changing from people writing in verbose styles like Claremont or Busiek to writing like Ellis and Millar, or Bendis' Mamet tribute act is at best a sideways move, the new 'fashion' was every bit as bad as the old one, just in a different way.
>>154343820>and changing from people writing in verbose styles like Claremont or Busiek to writing like Ellis and Millar, or Bendis' Mamet tribute act is at best a sideways move, the new 'fashion' was every bit as bad as the old one, just in a different wayApparently not because when Marvel moved away from the overly verbose, old fashioned way of writing sales tripled.
>>154343693>Oh God it's that one prick making the exact same thread he always does and reeing about Quesada because he can’t accept the fact he’s not a kid anymore and his niche hobby reflected the changing times
>>154343899>Oh God it's that one prick who's upset that no one likes the Quesada era anymore and still blaming Old Stuff made before Quesada
>>154341479Stringing the readers along with hope-teases for something you never intend to deliver on is a dick move, but in all seriousness, what the hell better solution is there for the baby in an environment where the writers, editorial and Marvel as a company don't want Spider-Man to have a baby? Leaving a back door open to bringing her back, even if the current regime have no plans to ever use it, is at least preferable to definitively killing her.And with the benefit of several decades of hindsight, we can look back and say everyone involved was deluded if they genuinely believed they could kill off MJ and have it stick, especially in a way that had an obvious build-in backdoor, but just writing her out of the book if they didn't want her around, even with a stupid fake death, was preferable to modern Marvel's constant efforts to make readers dislike her, or pair her up with random other characters to deliberately make readers angry.And that gets back to the heart of why the Quesada era was so bad. Deliberately making the readers angry goes from being a thing you maybe had to put up with if you were reading a book Brevoort was editing to becoming a cancer that infected the whole company.
>>154343962> but in all seriousness, what the hell better solution is there for the baby in an environment where the writers, editorial and Marvel as a company don't want Spider-Man to have a baby? Leaving a back door open to bringing her back, even if the current regime have no plans to ever use it, is at least preferable to definitively killing her.Not definitely killing the baby is even worse, how do you defend Peter not doing everything he can to find out what happened to the baby if there’s even an iota of a chance the baby is still alive?
>>154336364Came here to say that. He looks like fat Elon.
>>154343935I literally could not give less of a shit if this pussy generation doesn’t like the Quesada era. But it’s annoying as fuck seeing zoomers like you constantly posting dumbass shit like the Harras era was better. You have no idea how bad Marvel was before Quesada. He did a lot of retarded shit but I’d take JMS at his worst over Mackie and his fucking hard on for the literal who Senator.
>>154343869>it's good because it soldSo you admit Marvel was better in the 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s?>>154343899>reflected the changing times>by making everyone an unlikeable asshole nowWhat the hell third world hellhole are you living in where this reflected the times?
>>154344066They actually had that covered with "Peter and MJ think the baby is dead, but readers have seen things that imply maybe she's not". Peter isn't doing anything about it because he doesn't know.This worked up until they blew it with a bait and switch storyline that turned out to be the return of Aunt May instead.
>>154337915Holy shit, how did I only now realize this has happened at both publishers in roughly the same time frame?That's two nickels.mp4
>>154344149This is a disingenuous argument that isn't paying attention to what people are actually saying. Nobody's defending bad stories from the Harras era, people are arguing that most of the characters were still intact at their core, while the Quesada era broke all the toys for cheap shock value, never fixed anything afterwards, and that's a trick you can only play once, and they did it while constantly trying to make readers angry.There's a type of reader who just wants to see some rockstar writer break all the toys then leave, but if you actually like and follow the characters you tend to hate those stories, especially if the damage sticks, and suddenly all of Marvel went like that at once, and never really stopped. Evidently that's what you actually want, but don't act so surprised that there are people who'd prefer to sit through a mediocre or bad run, knowing it won't last forever, over the things the writers Quesada brought in did to characters.
>>154344408Yeah, I’d rather have a good writer who may mix things up and tell an exciting story over a mediocre writer telling mediocre stories that adhere 110% to already established fifty year old canon. In JMS’s first Spider-Man arc there’s a line where Peter thinks something like “it’s weird fighting next to someone with the same powers as me” and, as a kid reading it who had been reading since the clone saga, I thought it was weird since Peter had fought alongside Ben but it didn’t ruin the story for me because it was an exciting story that I was really enjoying. Which was something I hadn’t been able to say about Amazing Spider-Man for years prior because of an editorial team that prioritized adherence to decades old canon over exciting stories. And the only damage Quesada did that’s still there is One More Day and that’s because no editor ever wanted Peter married and now that it’s been undone they’re stubbornly sticking to it. Everything else has been “fixed”. The X-Men are back to being “protecting a world that hates and fears them” instead of a new culture/on the brink of extinction. Avengers has been a more traditional team for a while now instead of Spider-Man and Wolverine (I know zdarsky is changing that but you can’t blame Quesada because he hasn’t been in charge in almost 15 years). No one cares about cosmic again. There’s no Ultimate universe. You could honestly jump from the Harras era to modern Marvel and not notice anything too out of the ordinary.
>>154343721How did Morrison ruin X-Men ? It's fine ?
Who else is making a pilgrimage to piss on Joey Q's grave?
>>154342696>Who would you rather have?I know this is a complicated take to comprehend and you need at least 70 IQ to understand this, but a person can do good things and also bad things in the course of a career.
>>154346026I'll cut to the chase and if I see him in public I'll see if I can photobomb him at every opportunity with a version of pic rel except it's about his and Disney's choices. Just need to make it.
>>154342443The point was that any issue could have been someone's first at the time.
It's funny that even the posts defending Quesada can't actually defend him and have to do deflect to previous editors or claim they were going to face some vague unspecified worse fate if not for him.Bro sucks so bad that even the people defending him can't actually defend him.
>>154346195no you don't understand bro trust me bro erasing Spider-Man's marriage like a creepy psychologically projecting weirdo and killing off all the X-Men and putting them on a weird island and making a bunch of weird arbitrary changes to a bunch of characters that can never be altered in any way is good for Marvel bro just trust me bro
>>154336050This is the same phenotype as Harvey Weinstein.
>>154344908>Yeah, I’d rather have a good writer who may mix things up and tell an exciting storyWell we never got that, we just got edgy retards who mixed things up and told boring stories all the same. That you actually found that stuff exciting just makes you look like a total NPC.>>154344996Jesus, anon. Why are you like this?
>>154346621If you’re going to claim that the Byrne/Mackie era of Spider-Man was better than the JMS era you’re just a retarded faggot and there’s no use arguing with you
>>154346195>It's funny that even the posts defending Quesada can't actually defend him and have to do deflect to previous editors or claim they were going to face some vague unspecified worse fate if not for himBecause you can be given facts about Quesada’s time as EiC like the fact sales literally tripled, franchises that were seen as the laughing stock of the industry like Spider-Man and X-Men returned to a prestige status, the original Ultimate universe stuff is one of the very few things Marvel keeps in print, the majority of books that sell at normie locations come from the Quesada era, he pulled the company from bankruptcy to be given loans from banks to finance major motion pictures, but you’ll ignore all of that and post something like >spider-man or x-men prestigeor something to sidestep all of that because you’re either still butthurt about One More Day or the fact Marvel moved to a more modern storytelling style instead of the outdated-in-the-90s Bronze Age style.
>>154346190Yes, which is better accomplished with a recap page they started doing in the early 2000s instead of having to reread “the alien costume that I got on battleworld that reed Richards of the fantastic four discovered was alive!” or “my mutation gives me enhanced senses that I can use to track this bub” every other panel for consecutive issues straight.
>>154346813I hope those short term gains where worth the eternal damnation.
>>154346858So you don't want conics to be charming?
>>154346925I want to read a good fucking story that isn’t shackled by an arbitrary “every issue might be someone’s first” rule. Why the fuck does it need to be “charming” just because it’s a fucking comic?
>>154346730You just can't get your mind around the idea that people disliking the Quesada era doesn't mean they're praising the books from the Harras era, can you? Your tiny mind is stuck in some retarded binary where if you dislike one thing it means you must like the other, people can dislike both, you deranged cockwomble. Or possible paid shill. Potentially both.Parts of JMS' Spider-Man are one of the few things from the Quesada era I do like, but generally not the mystic and totem stuff.>>154346813By your sales argument, you should be praising DeFalco as the best EIC, and that Marvel is run by people who are heavily invested in keeping the Quesada era in print says more about their Year Zero approach to reshaping the company, downplaying the past and keeping their own stuff in print.The "more modern storytelling style" was ass, it was just a different kind of ass.Your "returned X-Men to prestige" argument doesn't work when it's the Quesada era where after 20 years they were finally deposed as the top selling books in the industry.>>154346858Marvel were doing recap pages back in the late 90s, though some writers did still write as if they didn't exist.
>>154347067>Your "returned X-Men to prestige" argument doesn't work when it's the Quesada era where after 20 years they were finally deposed as the top selling books in the industryThey were deposed by other Marvel books and even then they were always still in the top 5 at least until Whedon left. By the time Uncanny, X-Men, and Wolverine became the top 3 month in and month out the comic industry had fallen into a rut where there wasn’t anything to get excited about so it was just stagnant, a lot like the industry recently before Absolute.
>>154347067When I said>I’d rather have a good writer over a mediocre oneYou said>well we never got thatImplying that during the Quesada era we didn’t have good writers, implying the writers during the Harras era were better, implying Byrne and Mackie were better than JMS. And I’m implying>you’re a faggot
>>154346813>like the fact sales literally tripledAnd it was rooted in short term gain from shock value stunts and gimmicks. Defending the shit Quesada did is like defending constantly relaunching books because of the sales boost from a #1.Maybe just put out good product for stable sales instead of this ping ponging bullshit thats become the norm as a result of the shitty practices that Marvel/DC have gorged on.
>>154346813I'm not reading all that.
I don’t like saying it but he is one of the better editors historically. Also like 75% of complaints are insane spider-man fans and I’m a classic Avengers fan so you know I have my problems with him too
>>154344220>readers have seen things that imply maybe she's notThey need to undo ASM #418 and OMD.
>>154351651The most fascinating thing about the OMD era of comics will not be the stories it produced, but the behind the scenes exposes and long realization of the mistake it was as the new generation resents the old Brevoort and Lowe buzzards.
>>154341066Marvel has always been soaps. Look at the X-Men.DC too for that matter.Social conflict is just easier to produce than action, and relationship drama is easier than any other kind.
>>154351756Problem is Marvel has become remarkably shit at it, so we are on our second secret cousin plot.Look at the absolute dearth left of Spider-Mans civilian cast.
>>154342622He looks like a MineCraft Villager.
>>154351763I mean yeah, just saying that it has always just been mostly about getting issues out than it was about making the issues good.That they were sometimes good and got acclaim is more a happy accident than it is anything any corporate publishing editor actually plans for.
>>154351808There are ways to make the happy accidents more often than not, and right now the inner workings rot works as repellent for critically needed new talent and the old hands and heads only get more gnarled and stubborn.
>>154351839Personally, I think the whole model is just broken.These characters have been around for too long. Not in a way like, "We should stop using them," but like, "We need to stop treating these characters as continuous and contiguous."We would be able to escape bad runs and writer decisions more often if the author of a run could treat all of Marvel as an anthology/mythos to draw from instead of a canon to abide.Or at least, I think that would be healthier for the medium than to have everything sorta kinda but not really tie in to everything else.
>>154351651To protect the child, it was magically transformed into a cat.
>>154351870Ever since EVENTSEVENTSEVENTS became the mainstay, one has to keep a very loose continuity or idea of canon in order to keep enjoying the characters. A bad writers mark or the very common familiar mush of multiple writers writing over each-other can prove too much for canon without snapping or strong retcons.See Iron Man post civil war, Beast or MJ post whatever the fuck they have to do to make her reputation recover from the Wells run.
>>154351944I'm just suggesting that it be made official.Then writers could actually do some interesting reinventions and explorations of the characters without expecting everyone else to carry the baggage if they fuck it up.
>>154352044A lot of ill will and especially the Spider-Man comic current storming the bastille mood among fans would have been abated had the Old Heads just thought of starting their own ongoing.If there was juice enough in what they thought the fans wanted, it would have sold, they could have done that before betting the farm and reputation of the comics.
>>154347067>By your sales argument, you should be praising DeFalco as the best EIC,Marvel's market share plummeted like a stone under DeFalco.
>>154343721Morrison should have never been given the Xmen. It's too grounded too reality for him to do it well. I would have found a way to lure him towards the inhumans and eternals. and just given him almost complete carte blanche with that entire portion of the marvel universe. Better yet given him marvel magic universe to do with what he want. Just lock him into a hoterl room, wheel a barrel full of shrooms and coke in there and told him don't come out till you made something good.
>>154344908Anon, that samey 50+ year old core of the character is why people keep coming back. If you're going to change things then do it in a way that's exciting or can bring in new readers.Not just be something different so the jaded degenerates who on a deep level hate and resent the characters destroying it all as a form of passive agressive protest and midlife crisis extended to the page.It's fucking embarassing.
>>154348307>short term gainMarvel consistently held the market share for twenty-plus years when Quesada took over. Only recently did they lose it
There's only one nigga in all these threads who defends Quesada's slop and it's probably either Joe himself or his cocksleeve Dan Slott.>"B-b-b-b-but he made more money than the last guy!">"B-b-b-b-but comic plots have always been bad, melodramatic soap operas, you guys!">"B-b-b-b-but some people like his editorial decisions!!!!"This arguments are such monumentally retarded and embarassing cope that there's no point actually taking them seriously. Just laugh at this nigga.
If you hate the way Marvel comics are done now, then he's not the worst. Alonso and Cebulski did not make things better.
>>154353216>If you hate the way Marvel comics are done now, then he's not the worst.He's the reason they're done this way.
>>154352822All of these threads are made by one nigga who saw the RLM video and googled “why hate Joe Quesada” and parrots whatever talking points come up on the google search. They’ve demonstrated time and time again they haven’t actually read the comics they just took some pages from a comedy comic book as examples for how all the comics were at the time.
>>154353273New EiCs can make changes as they see fit any time they want. That's what Quesada did.
>>154353307pfffft hahahahahaha! Nigga I've been JQ's #1 Oppa since before I started posting on this board. Disney hadn't even bought Marvel yet when I started hating his ass! Rich Evans broke your brain so hard that the sound of him saying "Fuck You, Joe Quesada" probably rings in your ears when you're trying to sleep at night lmao>>154353315>New EiCs can make changes as they see fit any time they want.Bitch read the OP. He staffed Marvel with toadies who'd treat his diarrhea like gold and never let anyone touch it. You just gonna pretend you can't read to defend the Quesadilla Nigga? Doesn't really work when you're talking about comics.
>>154352822Funniest part is every other rebuttal tacking on how people are "too pussy" to appreciate the auteur genius of the Joey Q crew.
The comic historians decades from now are going to view the Joey Q/OMD era the same way we look at the comics code authority.Fuck, at least the comics code invited creativity from artists trying to skate around it.
>>154336050Flintstones gummy looking motherfucker.
>>154353386Yeah it's ridiculous. It's like this dude actually he can argue and insult people into liking something they hate.or he's trying to make it look like Joey Q and the Nodick Crew are more popular than they are.>>154353405He's not even gonna be seen as that important. He's gonna be seen as yet another ego-driven hack who just did a bad job and had enough pull to keep people from fixing his mess for years.
>>154353359Alonso was headhunted from Vertigo. Cebulski was also an outsider, editing manga translations for Central Park Media. Quesada himself wasn't promoted from within, he started his own comics company that Marvel licensed a few of their low-selling properties to because they were dead broke, and those books dunked on the mainline to such a degree that they fired the EiC and gave him the job.
>>154347173>implying>implying>implyingLet's talk cold hard facts; you are a retarded NPC who can't engage in conversation without leaping to unfounded conclusions and you enjoy the taste of dick.
>>154351870At this point your options are just periodic reboots like DC, or just locking the important characters in a sort of permanent status quo, and whatever happens in any run, they are obliged to get back to normal by the end, and the shared universe is reduced to "sometimes these characters meet and team up", you don't get to do anything in one book that would impact characters in another title, and a writer can't kill a guest starring character, or do something that would make them look bad, nor have the title character bang them.
>>154352539>Morrison should have never been given the Xmen. It's too grounded too reality for him to do it well.All he had to do was what he did for JLA. Cut the line down to one book with a cast limited to the biggest characters, and have action-heavy stories pitting them against the biggest villains.Instead, he couldn't see past the metaphor and did what he did.
>>154353421>and those books dunked on the mainline to such a degreeNo they didn't, don't lie on the internet and expect nobody to notice. Even the #1s never outsold Marvel's usual top sellers.>that they fired the EiC and gave him the job.That had more to do with existing conflict between Ike Perlmutter and Bob Harras over cutting costs and firing people, and with Bill Jemas wanting to run Marvel more like Marvel Knights and "just hire writers you wouldn't normally see at Marvel and let them do whatever they want", and wanting an EIC who was more amenable to letting the inmates run the asylum.
>>154354196I think it's a waste. Marvels magic side and the kirby inspired cosmic/spiritual wierdness is under explored and he should have been given the key to that entire portion of Marvel and a good artist.
>>154354266>and a good artist.We don't talk enough about how ugly a lot of the "superhero comics by artists who don't normally do superhero books" were back then.
>>154353417>or he's trying to make it look like Joey Q and the Nodick Crew are more popular than they are.Quesada, Jemas and some of their writers used to talk like wrestling heels in a lot of interviews they did back then and just insult haters and the competition, so it figures that fans and shills of the era would do the same.
>>154354101Uh huh. I’m sure your internet friends at red letter media will see your posts here and think you’re a real cool guy. They might even invite you on to their next video, OP
>>154354256>Marvel Knights wasn’t dunking on the regular lineLook at this faggot. Look at him and laugh.
>>154353405That, or they're gonna look back at the Joey Q/OMD era with wistful jealousy. Because shit only got worse and the garbage they're dealing with makes current Marvel look like Shakespeare.
>>154354256The Smith and Mack runs of Daredevil and the Ennis/Dillon Punisher run were outselling Amazing Spider-Man.>That had more to do with existing conflict between Ike Perlmutter and Bob Harras over cutting costs and firing people, and with Bill Jemas wanting to run Marvel more like Marvel Knights and "just hire writers you wouldn't normally see at Marvel and let them do whatever they want", and wanting an EIC who was more amenable to letting the inmates run the asylum.When DC foolishly made Harras EiC and he brought his own stable of toadies over, he made that company worse as well. The New 52 hype fizzled out very quickly. The guy sucked.
>>154354896>The New 52 hype fizzled out very quickly.It was really funny how quickly the New 52 hype turned into "let's see what fuck up and backroom drama and backstabbing and editorial cocksuckery has happened this week" hype.God, that shit was so entertaining. Every week some writer and/or artist was stirring up a shitstorm.
Joe Quesada sucks ass.
>>154352822It's definitely someone tied to that era of Marvel
>>154354896What runs are still being reprinted and enjoyed? Which ones feature rape, bad writing, and faggotry? The ones you said and niggas clown on it now. The 80's are timeless. The 00's faggotry of TMZ writing under Quesada is shit nobody care about to buy now. The culture of the 00's is both based and cringe. Quesada was cringey to some and surface level cool to others. But now he is a gigafaggot.
One time I heard Joey Q was named Jewy Jew and he then took a plane ride to Krakoa under this alias.
>>154355928Taking a look at the current best sellers list on Amazon - a recent Brand New Day compilation, Old Man Logan, Spider-Man Noir, Welcome Back Frank, Planet Hulk, World War Hulk, Civil War, Bendis/Bagley Ultimate Spider-Man, Daredevil: Yellow. Spider-Man: Reign, House of M, Astonishing X-Men, Winter Soldier, Morrison's New X-Men, Spider-Man: The Other, Hulk: Gray, Marvel Zombies, Hickman's Fantastic Four.I liked the Shooter era too, but Quesada published a lot of good books and classic stories. Yeah he made his share of boneheaded and fanboy moves, just like every other editor-in-chief in existence.
>>154352822>>154353386>>154353417>>154355927Well considering I was literally 12 years old when Quesada took over Marvel I'm not entirely sure what sort of tie I'd have to Marvel, samefag anon. However thanks to Quesada I was able to enjoy my favorite characters and my hobby again after years of literal garbage shoveled out by Bob Harras. I'm sure after this thread dies you'll make another Quesada-hate thread where you'll samefag thru the whole thing in the hopes of impressing Rich Evans.
>>154356096Blew anon >>154355928 right out of the water. Blew him right the fuck out.
>>154356271I can't believe you thought anyone would think this post is authentic.
>>154354401Most of those books were mid-chart and getting outsold by the very Heroes Return books you're reeing about, you nugget. You even argue like Quesada himself.>>154356271>this was my hobby since before I was 6 but I didn't actually enjoy it until I was 12Sure, anon. Sure. Sounds convincing.
>>154341720No, the speculator bubble didn't kill the market. The real reason was Marvel buying Heroes World Distribution and fucked the direct market distribution and then dying because of their incompetence to manage it.
>>154356096>Marvel keeps a lot of absolute dogwater constantly in print while creating artificial scarcity for the Epic Collections because they want you buying omnibuses insteadIs this really news to anyone? Most of the books you listed from that era are absolute ass that are riding on being "important" or being written by someone with a cult of personality built up around them.
>>154346073>but a person can do good things and also bad things in the course of a career.And that don't make his period the worst. But go ahead and tell us who would choice over Quesada? Alonso or Harras.
>>154356843In the year 2000, every month Punisher and Daredevil shipped, they outsold Amazing Spider-Man. They were only being outsold by the x-books which were being driven purely by x-fan inertia considering the content of those books was absolute garbage. That's what they were looking at.
>>154355928>>154356096To go into detail, here's the Superhero Best Seller list on Amazon, which changes often (sometimes weekly, daily, or even sooner)https://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-books-Amazon/zgbs/books/3825121/#1 on the list currently is Byrne's Elsewhenhighest Quesada-era comic right now is Brand New Day at #19Other Quesada era books are Hickman F4, Old Man Logan, and Spider-Man NoirNow here is the list for the Top Marvel-only books:https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/4400Byrne Elsewhen didn't get counted because it was published by Abrams Books and not MarvelThe Top 50 ranking: >Hickman Secret Wars>the digest-sized Brand New Day book>F4: Solve Everything (Hickman, in Premier form)>Hickman USM vol 1>Daredevil: Born Again (Premier edition)>Hickman USM vol 2>Complete Todd McFarlane Spider-Man>Black Panther: A Nation Under Our Feet (Coates' run Premier edition)>Hickman USM vol 3>Amazing Spider-Man Masterworks vol 1>House of X/Powers of X vol 1>Old Man Logan (Premier edition)>Marvels>Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith>One World Under Doom>Daredevil: The Man Without Fear>Kraven's Last Hunt>Spider-Man Noir>Welcome Back Frank (Premier edition)>Planet Hulk (Premier edition)>World War Hulk>Civil War>Lemire/Smallwood Moon Knight>Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith vol 3>Civil War (Premire edition)>Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith vol 2>Immortal Hulk omnibus>Bendis USM vol 1>Deniz Camp Ultimates vol 1>Books of Doom>Hickman USM vol 4>Bendis USM omnibus vol 1>Shooter/Zeck Secret Wars>ASM: Goblin's Last Stand Epic Collection>Loeb/Sale Daredevil Yellow>Bendis USM vol 3>Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe>X-Men: Blue & Gold - Mutant Genesis Omnibus>Spider-Man and the X-Men>Star Wars: Darth Maul - Son Of Dathomir>Spider-Man: Reign>Dark Phoenix Saga>Fraction/Aja Hawkeye (Premier edition)>House of M>Daredevil: Back in Black>Whedon/Cassaday Astonishing X-Men Epic Collection>Captain America: The Winter Soldier (Premier edition)
>>154357031I like how you qualified it with "every month Daredevil shipped" to downplay how often it didn't.Amazing Spider-Man hadn't been a top-selling 'flagship' book in so long by that point that two relaunches overtaking it wasn't going to make or break an EIC. If that was the case they would've given Jim Lee or Rob Liefeld the EIC job back in 1996.>>154357122The way the Premier Editions are almost entirely focused on storylines from the 2000s and 2010s really gives away Marvel's Year Zero mentality about the Quesada years. Older stories that should be evergreen trades overlooked in favor of collecting every mildly 'important' story from those years they can.
>>154357210I will say in fairness I could see why Civil War, Old Man Logan, and Fraction Hawkeye got them, because those consistently sold in TPB form for Marvel back in the 2010s. I also note that it's the Kindle edition of Marvel Masterworks Spider-Man that got ranked on this chart which puts the lie to whichever shill was claiming no one wants to read old comics
>>154357210You can read the press release they gave when it happened http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/news/bobharris.html>Comics’ industry insiders began buzzing late this afternoon when reports of Editor-in-Chief Bob Harras’ exit from Marvel Comics hit the rumor circuit. Writer Warren Ellis was first online to mention the possible exit or firing, telling readers of his Delphi message board forums at about 6:30PM this evening, "I`ve just heard that Bob Harras left Marvel at 3pm EST today. No details.">Further industry speculation and rumors suggest Marvel Knights head Joe Quesada may be in line for the reportedly vacant position.>UPDATE: AUGUST 30th: MARVEL E-I-C MOVES MADE OFFICIAL>"Recognized in the industry as one of today’s premiere comic book editors and creators, Mr. Quesada is charged with guiding the editorial direction for Marvel`s world renowned superhero franchises, including Spider-Man, X-Men, The Hulk and The Fantastic Four," read the announcement. "He takes over the reins after serving as the Editor-in-Chief of the Marvel Knights imprint for the past two years. During that time, Mr. Quesada turned Marvel Knights into a lightning rod for talent, attracting such well-known writers and artists as Kevin Smith, Brian Bendis, Bob Gale, Grant Morrison, Garth Ennis, Paul Jenkins, Jae Lee and Mark Millar. His editorial accomplishments with Marvel Knights include revitalizing The Punisher and Daredevil series and turning them back into top sellers for the company.>"We are dedicated to fulfilling our mission as the `House of Ideas’ and feel that Joe is the perfect visionary to achieve this lofty standard. Joe’s accomplishments speak for themselves. He is a creative genius, a gifted recruiter and manager of talent, and has experience in all facets of the comic world. We will be looking to him to bring to our entire line the same level of creativity that has turned Marvel Knights into an award-winning and top-selling imprint," said Jemas.
>>154357271Civil War is one of those things like Maximum Carnage where it's undeniably an evergreen whether we love it or hate it, but some of those other things have no business being prioritized like that.
>>154357328Yes, anon, because they dished all the behind the scenes dirt about what was happening in the official press release, didn't they?They didn't fire Harras and promote Quesada just because he made two of the Marvel Knights line into top sellers, but not THE top sellers.I wonder if Jemas still thought as highly about Quesada when letting the inmates run the asylum ended up getting him fired.
>>154357388>I wonder if Jemas still thought as highly about Quesada when letting the inmates run the asylum ended up getting him fired.I would say he was one of the inmates running the asylum. He's the one who wanted Millar to write Trouble and specifically asked for it to be about Aunt May and Uncle Ben and Peter's parents in their younger days
>>154336050its been 20 years stop you insufferable manchild
>>154357552Never forget.
>>154352454Ouch to that valley in DC just at the end of the N and before Rebirth.
>>154352539>Xmen>too groundedThe biggest X-men stories involved them fighting against a space empire, dealing with alien races, confronting a cosmic entity, getting lost in a prehistoric land and even fighting against Dracula. If anything Morrison's X-men lack the desire to go batshit with the whimsical scenarios and at times are way too bleak and grounded.
>>154356096>>154356284>>154357122Kek. Samefag seethe off the charts. Bunch of newfag fans get duped into buying those books and then bounce off the medium until someone lets them know what is actually good comics. Also, synergy plays a part and Marvel astroturfs and pushes Quesada shit in the movies so they can appear like they know what they are doing. Fags you suck cum from the gutter that is Jew Q comics.But what is the retention, huh? You can't easily quantify that. And the market was healthier when it wasn't run by soulless greedy fags. How about you go into detail on why you like Civil War, BND, or any Quesada comic and use actual artist critique on why your beloved shit is not shit? Deferring to sales will only get you so far. If you're not willign to offer specifics then you are a coward who shirks from actually displaying any knowledge about making and enjoying the comics themselves. Just like Slott and Quesada, you offer surface-level, trite reasons.
Quesadafags act like rape victims. Evidence? This thread.
>>154357861You didn't notice that Byrne's Elsewhen was outperforming all the Quesada era books, in that last post? You know, Byrne, the guy who famously cut off ties to Marvel because of Quesada?
>>154357861I'm sure RLM is going to be real impressed with your buzzwords
>>154357388Additionally Liefeld and Lee helped choose Harras as EiC, they were never after his job.>I can't help but think both Jim Lee and I helped shape the climate by choosing Bob Harras as EIC in 1995... While we were not final votes, Jim and I were consulted as to the choices for the new EIC. The new guys running Marvel gave us a list...They asked Jim and I for input on the new EIC and we supported Bob over other candidates, they then whittled the list and came back to us..We continued to support Bob when it came down to the final 2 choices. We had experienced huge success with Bob in the X-office in our youth. I told Bob in the Marriott at ComicCon in 1995 that he was getting the nod; Marvel had 5 group editors at the time & that was about to change. Can't help but wonder how things would have changed had we selected the other guy for EIC. Remember, the new guys at Marvel were paying us a huge sum to deliver the Avengers group out of their slump, we needed the friendliest EIC.... We knew that whoever the new EIC was he would work towards ending Heroes Reborn because it represent a potential end to Biz-as-usual.Go figure those two jerks would support a slop peddler. Mark Waid had thoughts I agreed with.>Apparently, the fact that Bob was fired for unfair and wrong reasons one September rather than for all the tens of hundreds of RIGHT reasons he'd racked up in the seven years PREVIOUS gave a lot of staffers a sudden change of heart. >Overnight, they forgot what a two-faced, cowardly liar Bob had been and what crap they'd all had to suffer through because of his shortcomings as a manager. >Bob did as much to help destroy the comic book industry during the 1990s than any other single human being alive. >For years and years and years, the editorial philosophy at Marvel was to make each and every comic book as labyrinthine and confusing as creatively possible.
>>154357902Yeah I'm sure you don't read comics and you don't actually have enough intelligence to realize what is a good story or not. Also I might be disproven as to you being the samefag of those posts but not really since there are ways around it.>>154357893So? What does that matter? Quesada's era of stories are still shit and Marvel is now desperate for somebody else to put out books. Looks like you agree. But the main point of those posts were to say that the rest are dominated by Quesada books. And I've already posted why that doesn't mean shit.
>>154357902Anon did not in fact reply with any sort of rebuttal or knowledge of the stories anon purportedly, "likes", showing anon's lack of desire to even care about anything, rather anon likes to preoccupy themselves with deranged baiting and putting in active effort to not have a life. >inb4 where do you think we areYeah well 4chan is meant for discussion not for masochists who are also sadists to run wild. I like effortposting.
>>154357861Of the books mentioned in >>154356096BND - Mr. Negative was a good new villain. The original Wells/Bachalo Rabin/Wayep story was fun with good art. All the twists wtih Menace were hilarious. Paperdoll was visually interesting, too bad no one's really used her since. New Ways to Die and American Son were solid Dark Reign-era arcs. That entire subplot with Peter's roommate Michelle that Marvel kept backpedaling on was hilarious. Mysterioso was a classic Mysterio story. I didn't care for Shed, OMIT, Grim Hunt, and Origin of Species, era ended with a dark and gritty whimper.Spider-Man Noir - who doesn't like this? The original Hine books were a pretty good AUWelcome Back Frank - made Punisher great againPlanet Hulk - pretty fun alien adventureBendis/Bagley Ultimate Spider-Man - Pretty colors, Bendis did a good job of re-envisioning old concepts through an 00s lens aside from all the times he fumbled for various reasonsThe books and runs I liked the most weren't on that list, aside from Frank. Most people like slop, that's why it's always topping the charts. But they have to publish good slop to stay in business and Quesada did a great job of that.
>>154358195?! What knowledge am I supposed to display? How much the senator arc before JMS took over sucked frog ass? How incomprehensible The Neo were in Claremont’s return to X-Men in 2000? How it was literally night and day between Mackie’s last issue of Amazing and JMS’s first? How great an idea it was to have Peter be a science teacher, giving him a steady job as well as a potential supporting cast? Or the scene where Peter tries to call MJ on the pay phone before fighting Morlun again? How everyone thought the big twist was going to be that Peter was going to kill Morlun and it ended up being that Aunt May found out he was Spider-Man? Or that Ultimate Spider-Man #13 was considered one of the best comics of the year? The silent issue of new x-men where Emma gets her clothes burned off and Jean discovers that Xavier tried to kill Cassandra Nova in the womb? “Don’t let this experience put you off boys” Emma tells Esme as her boyfriend turns into a Shi’Ar blob shapeshifter? What the fuck do you want?
>>154358100>So? What does that matter? Quesada's era of stories are still shit and Marvel is now desperate for somebody else to put out books. Looks like you agree. But the main point of those posts were to say that the rest are dominated by Quesada books. And I've already posted why that doesn't mean shit.The point of the chart is to agree that yes that there are Quesada-era books charting, but to show where did they land relative to other stuffByrne's Elsewhen is outperforming everything Marvel and there's no real MCU tie-in (unless someone goes with the flimsy "X-Men are in Avengers Doomsday" thing) and Byrne cut ties with Quesada-era Marvel, so there's no Quesada-era or MCU push for this to explain why it's outperforming everything elseThe new Brand New Day charted high because of the movie and also because it was cheaper than the Premier editions (which were Marvel's answer to Compact)Hickman USM, Lee/Ditko Marvel Masterworks vol 1 and McFarlane Spider-Man somehow chart higher than Bendis USM. The only Quesada-era books outperforming them are the BND low-priced edition and the Hickman's F4 Premier. They're even still outperforming the first regular BND volume (it's on rank #75)
>>154358393Ok. Cool.>>154358352Your knowledge of that does not prove any real artistic critique abilities and going back through the reply chain reveals that you are saying that Quesada's era has "classic" stories yet your surface level rattling off of "moments" does not show why those moments matter. Also your disingenuousness when it comes to JMS moments is laughable as it was Quesadilla who fucked over JMS's run by having it tie into Civil War and also forcing OMD. That ruined all of those moments because now suddenly they never existed or are in some vague realm where they never reference them or develop the characters as if those moments happened. You are a lowly faggot sucking on gutter trash.
>>154358967You’re a faggot, OP. Your goalposts are on wheels and you’re either a zoomer who has no friends or social life except for the one you LARP with YouTube faggots or you’re an old boomer still seething Marvel stopped writing comics in an outdated style. You came here and posted a topic you didn’t have a lot of actual knowledge in hoping you’d get rounds of high fives from your fellow anons and instead got a lesson in Marvel history that didn’t fit the narrative supported by your YouTube friends. So you cried, pissed, and shit your pants and samefagged through the whole thread. Then when this thread archives you’ll do it again hoping for another outcome.
>>154359266>OPNot OP.>moving goalpostsYou have yet to answer me or even refute why your cavalcade of "moments" (euphemism for Slott-ian trivia grabbing from Wikia) is worth taking you seriously. No actual critique just Reddit pissing contests of who is the actual fan when you can't even seriously back up why Quesada era stories are worth a damn. Thought you'd be an actual challenge but you're just a Quesadilla cocksucking drone.>outdated styleAgain with this faggot take. Disproven in this thread and previous threads. Comics still have even more story and shit happening even when there are recaps of basic facts like Psylocke's powers or catchphrases.>high fives from fellow anonsYeah well that's what camraderie is when you give a damn about shit that matters. But yeah I don't need it and my fellow anons who are right, don't need it. It just naturally happens.>lesson in Marvel history I won't repeat what I just said. Just know that Marvel history before Quesada TMZ shit is what keeps it afloat.>samefagged the whole threadNope.>another outcomeAlready got it.
>>154359266It's scared.
Nerdy zoomer shut-ins have at their fingers near the entirety of marvels output prior Quesada, Lowe and Slotts rotting hegemony, you can see what works and writing style made Marvel characters the household names, and what has been the managed decline riding them.Try explain to any normie a summarised events of ASM since 2008. You can actually see any respect or interest die in real time.
>>154359454>>154359581>>154359701It’s a samefag
>>154359701It's quite sad. But at least some amount of schadenfreude can be gained from Marvel and those faggots. The amount of effort to not make Paul look bad is ridiculous. Just humiliate the fag.>>154359763Anon can't comprehend that a thread has some anons who post at the same time. Yes many samefags do post multiple times in a row or post multiple times around the same time within minutes. However, this just shows anon expects the same shit to happen over and over. This is Quesada comic's effect on retarded minds. It leads to retards expecting mediocrity all the time and forcing others to expect it. I expect shit from modern Marvel and nu-4chan, but I desire good arguments nonetheless.
>>154359454You claimed I had no knowledge on the Quesada era. I proved I have knowledge. Now you want a dissertation on why I like those things. I could provide a dissertation, like how JMS’s first arc forced Peter to look at his powers in a different way than he had before, how the story showed why Peter is such a great hero because of the fact he never gives up even with insurmountable odds. How he’s human as seen by a moment where he wonders if he can let someone else take care of Morlun. Moving Peter in a new direction by giving him an actual job and having May learn of his dual identity instead of the rut he’d been stuck in since the Clone Saga. How Morrison’s X-Men run was great by similarly moving the X-Men franchise out of their stagnation, moving it away from a stale super hero soap opera coasting off one good run from twenty years previous into a slick sci fi epic. Giving Scott Summers some balls, making Emma Frost an A-list X-Man, giving a spotlight to mutants whose mutation doesn’t make them a sexy supermodel but a genuine freak, giving credence to the outcast metaphor. I can give you these dissertations but you’ll sidestep, like you have this whole thread, with goalpost moves and >implying x goodIt’s exhausting trying to deal with people like you because you don’t want an actual discussion you want an echo chamber where you’re right and everyone just tells you how you’re right. You brought up how great things were in the 80s, I’m guessing the Shooter years since Shooter made all those dirty hippies straighten up, right? But Shooter’s responsible for two things that continue to plague comics today: the line wide crossover and resurrecting characters from the dead who were meant to stay dead. The point being even the era you hold in high regard had a lot of retarded shit as well. We can both cherry pick what’s best and what’s worse from both eras till we’re blue in the face.
>>154359868>The amount of effort to not make Paul look bad is ridiculous. Just humiliate the fag.>Make Paul the perfect heel by accident just by your sheer incompetence>do nothing with it beyond waiting until the ENTIRE Wells run is over, and then making him some Jerry sad-sack in ANV which still does not explain why MJ would fall for himThey could have rode some easy fan high points but did nothing but advertise a nothing death for a character that sucked out all air and was nothing in the end. They would rather preserve their iceberg headed direction than actually make something of the lemons they sell.
>>154359454>>154359581>>154359701>>154359868More samefagging.
>>154359961I'm a different anon, I don't have any pitchfork against Q and think he made some competent business decisions. But his cabals philosophy for Spider-Man is an active cancer that is reaching late stage as seen in recent years.The belief that Spider-Man is about youth and not responsibility is a projection of him and his ilk. Their youth, eternally relived through the manchild they have made Peter they swing between relationships and events without any respect or grounding.
>>154359929>I could provide a dissertationHow about instead of talking, you actually do something?>KnowledgeSurface-level knowledge>provides more detailsOk. So you have read JMS like I have, as well as Morrison. I like JMS. It is a good comic. I know you'll then say Quesada is then based for that and now I am proven wrong. Counter point: OMD. You still have not said anything about it and how it cheapened and destroyed JMS's run.>goalpost movingSo you're still seething that I said your discussion and points about Quesada era mattering because your moments reply is gay shit Slott tends to do.Now you finally said some shit. Took you long enough faggot.But again, it all got either retconned by Quesada or raped by Brevoort.>Shooter Yeah he killed Jean and brought her back. And he had writers who tried their best to justify them and he provided nuance to those ideas and decisions whereas modern Marvel doesn't even try.
>>154359961More seething.
>>154360029He made some decisions that helped them short-term but he also continued others that are still rotting the company away. Sure give him some praise. Idgaf. But he still is part of the current problem and his ilk/acolytes.
>>154336050This the fucker for OMD?
>>154360029This.
>>154336050He is the one behind the Ultimate Universe and the original Ultimates comics. I think only for that he is spared from being the worst EIC ever.People itt are too young to understand how game changing The Ultimates and Ultimate Spider-man were.
>>154360764I think that was Bendis who was the one who did it. Problem is Quesada wanted it to go to the main line and he fucked the comics for futures to come.
>>154360409Yes.>>154360764>Bro....LE DECOMPRESSION?!?!?Saved by Bagley art and Bendis being tolerable and not succumbing to his tropes as badly initially. Until he wrote forced drama and not much happening from issue to issue.>UltimatesBoring.
>>154361505I don't care for Millar but saying Ultimates was "boring" is absurd. Everyone was talking about "Hulk horny" and "This A doesn't stand for France." They sanded off Millar's edges and turned it into two Avengers movies, animated and live-action.
>>154361505Like I said, people itt are too young and definitely missed the change of zeitgeist in mainstream comics.>>154360807At that point was inevitable, people were salivating for that edge in the main continuity. That is one of the multiples shortcomings of Quesada as EIC. The lack of vision in the long run.
>>154361557I got called RLM fanboy and yet we have an anon basically saying it's "so bad it's good" type shit. Yeah whatever. Still boring to me. Doesn't help the meme pages are old news to me.
>>154362188Millar was big, dumb, and loud, which made him an appropriate writer for Marvel comics which was always big, dumb, and loud.
>>154360130More going to bed
>>154342696>Mephistowank>kinoThanks for declaring that Brad Winderbaum and Brian Michael Bendis deserve to be able to sell Miles Morales to Sacha Noam Baron Cohen who is Mephisto in MCU.
>>154344408>...There's a type of reader who just wants to see some rockstar writer break all the toys then leave...I know this isn't the point of the thread but I hate this shit so much. Too many times the writers (and sometimes the artists) have no love or respect for the characters or their history and just use them to push through some story they have burning a whole in their brain. It's especially depressing when it's a character that doesn't get a lot of opportunities to be in a major role (in a team book) or get a solo book. Worst yet is when the shitty auteur take becomes the standard and asshole new fans decide that what the character was all along.
>>154363429This is what the role of a good editor is about, it’s to ask the question “and what about next month?” To tard-wrangle the worst excesses of your writers, keep characterisation and appearances in other comics consistent. This prevents your Slotts, Wells and even yes your Spencer’s from running amock with the family jewels, or even be on the verge of a very popular decision you’re averse to because of geriatric editorial overreach.Goddamit Lowe.
