>hickman
>percy
>pkj
They couldn't get one real guy to do one of these?

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>le boys and Invincible tv shows come out
>it's insufferably edgy pseudo-subversive "what if people killed" trash
>movie-onlys latch onto it
>DC shits out Absolute Batman
>Marvel now responds with thicc Sue Storm
I miss when Ultimate Cap was considered edgy for saying "fuck france but not really".

>>154417467
I'm shocked Ewing didn't get a book. But let's compare starting points:

Absolute DC came right out of the gate with
>Superman
>Batman
>Wonder Woman
>Flash
>Green Lantern
>Martian Manhunter
All done by creators who asked for these books, with varying levels of positive fan response. Catwoman and Green Arrow now have books, Martian will be ending, and Cassandra Cain will get a one-off. The line had a solid wide variety at the start, and is slowly expanding.

Marvel Midnight has
>Spider-Man
>F4
>X-Men

3 books, which one could argue could be testing the waters, but also implies lack of confidence in the line. Did any of these people ASK to write these, or did Marvel ask them? Because investment can allude to a better content given passion, as well as commitment. Absolute was also created to bring in new readers, but are any of these Midnight titles capable of doing that with casuals? Granted X-Men and Spider-Man are big names with casuals, but wouldn't "Midnight Wolverine" or "Midnight Iron Man" get more eyes on the books?

>>154417518
Absolute DC isn't sold on edge. That's like a surface level takeaway of why people are buying these books. In fact that's the WRONG lesson Marvel took when looking at the competition, and arguably a sold reason why this line will flop

>>154417542
>Did any of these people ASK to write these
they don't have to after DC made the bold choice of doing a safe bet with Absolute Batman

>>154417568
it's a giant Batman with spiked shoulders and a battle axe with bat ears. nobody has to read it to know it's being sold on edge 2cool4u factor.

>>154417635
>>154417661
And they say Marvel shills don't post on /co/. For fuck sake, channel that money/energy into your books for once

>>154417568
Why do you think people buy these books? I personally don't dig too much into neither, but I read Absolute MMH and saw people here trashing on it really hard (and it wasn't edgy in the slightest, so I guess after that I took the same conclusion as Marvel)

>>154417443
Reed's fine. Sue's boobs need to be bigger. Also, she needs more cleavage. Johnny should be flamed on.
Thing should always be orange and blue-eyed. even in your dark gritty reboot.

>>154417709
You say this while glazing Absolute Faggotry

>>154417443
Nigga it's coming out in october, it's literally just silly horror halloween shit

>>154417950
Glazing what? It's fucking fact in the sales numbers that Absolute is pushing books

>>154418298
Actually no, they just did that to help boost sales. They legit want this to be an ongoing response to Absolute

Marvels running on empty trying to eke out something, anything, from a talent pool as deep as a puddle and an editorial albatross rotting.
By 2030 you can have hope, until then we are still seeing the train carriages spin from the crash.

I want to fuck sue

i'll never understand the constant need to have the x-men fight vampires.

>>154419442
So far as Hickman I figured like how Game of Thrones influences can be seen in his Avengers Hickman was taken by True Blood or Vampire Diaries or something and needs a sales stable vehicle to do his take.

>>154419136
Unironically we are approaching another Marvel Comics 90s bankruptcy, but Disney may foot the bill just because they're trying to keep MCU properties alive. But it's a well known fact that Marvel fucks over their creators when it comes to paying them. Maybe if they actually did good for their people instead of a select few they favor, they'd have some fucking quality books. Creator investment works wonders, as does competition and limitation. But Marvel fumbles and has fumbled for the past few years.

What will the state of post ASM1000 when Spider-Man inevitably renumbers again?

>>154419442
>>154419616
Aren't fans sick of Vampires though? Jubilee was a vampire for some time (which didn't fans hate?), and we had that entire Blood Hunt event.

Wouldn't a more creative route be instead of mutants the X-Men just all have conventional hero origin stories (lab accidents, magic, training, etc) and they band together because on their own they're still hated weirdos?

>>154417568
>Absolute DC isn't sold on edge.
Anon...

>>154417443
>How many issues until they pull the plug?
It will last a couple years like the new Ultimate Universe. Marvel figure out that is better to keep those type of stories as short as possible instead of having another Ultimatum situation.
As much as I'm enjoying Absolute it won't last long and will probably end up like the New 52

>>154419042
I wonder what the numbers were like for Midnight X-Men before Marvel delayed it till October

>>154419739
>Wouldn't a more creative route be instead of mutants the X-Men just all have conventional hero origin stories (lab accidents, magic, training, etc) and they band together because on their own they're still hated weirdos?

Or keeping with the horror theme, they're all from bloodlines cursed by demonic spirits and the like. So basically New Ultimate X-Men, but for real this time.

>>154419702
>What will the state of post ASM1000 when Spider-Man inevitably renumbers again?
Continued managed decline as an ageing demographic that has bailed out Lowe and Spoffice continues to slowly but steadily shrink, more speculation bubble to lazily hide their shrinking market share, and the also ageing powers in charge without fail continuing to alienate the younger audience they have falsely attributed all their decisions as trying to attract.
A total injunction on anyone who wrote or edited on BND is needed. Now.

>>154420499
Six months to a year max. Imperial barely even lasted a year for fuck's sake.

Marvel ironically would be better served just doing evergreen kid friendly crap like Marvel Adventures.

Teen Spidey book with MJ as Peter's GF
Avengers with the pre-Bendis classic line-up
X-Men with the X-Men '92 cartoon line up
Fantastic Four book with a deliberate Kirby style aesthetic

They won't be huge big titted hits, but they can be containment books for fans who want Peter/MJ together, non-Nazi X-Men, and the die hard Avengers fans who still refuse to buy any Avengers book after tBendis raped the franchise.

>>154425068
>evergreen kid friendly crap like Marvel Adventures
What's hilarious is the Spider-Man Marvel Adventures were routinely better written than the mainline.
Bring back Tobin, he can write actual enjoyable all-ages Spidey.

>>154417568
>>154417801
Batman is sold on edge, but the rest are just people invested in the universe. AWW is actually pretty hopecore, and AGL/AMM have a niche of diverging so much it actually feels different from the original.

>>154417542
It also has an easy to understand hook, these are just the heroes stripped back. The Midnight hook is vague, is this an evil universe? Spider-Man seems like a good guy, but the X-Men seem neutral and just fighting another faction? The F4 are evil? Maybe? People just see this as "dark universe" with no thesis statement.

>>154417443
thickvisigirl

>>154417443
>Ben looks like Rockslide
>Sue is thicc
>Reed lift in the library
>Johnny looks like Johnny

>>154417443
More Reed is always based.

>>154428728
Agreed, but I'm afraid they will try to be too edgy and introduce the new version of Reed circa Civil War: an autistic savant who is so annoying, his wife can't help but cuck him, which makes him go like: oh my science, humans are so predictable.
I prefer my Reed being a slightly autistic but charismatic adventurer, scientist and family man, not a "how do I human" retard.

>>154425068
In the 2010s, Marvel should have just pulled the plug on the Ultimate line and replaced it with a new continuity inspired by the MCU when it was at it's peak, and sold it in a format and locations where it could be aggressively marketed to kids and normies.

>>154425444
>The Midnight hook is vague, is this an evil universe?
It sounds like it's going to be a shared universe when the three books they've announced already would all obviously work better as self-contained standalone titles.

Being a shared universe also runs the risk that characters who have history in several different titles may get grabbed up quickly by one of the launch titles just for the sake of getting control of them, barring them from being used in potential later titles where they might have had a bigger role.

>>154428830
Looking back at Lee/Kirby FF where Reed is an absolute Alpha Chad of a man that everyone is in awe of, and just had a character flaw of isolating himself in his lab too much sometimes, what he's been turned into in modern times, it's really jarring.

>>154417542
>Absolute DC came right out of the gate with
Martian Manhunter, The Flash and Green Lantern were five months after the rest. DC started with three.

>>154428938
Do you mean the Millar's "autistic savant" Reed or North's "quirky cungus neurospicy" Reed? God, I hope we finally have a writer who gets FF, I can't deal with that shit no more, just let them be. No more reinventing and subverting FF, pretty please.

>>154429057
It feels like it's been going on at least since somewhere in the 2000s, but there came a point where people kept trying to define him as the autismo. Probably is all Millar's fault.

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>>154429057
NTA, but Hickman's CHAD BREED Richards.

>>154429106
I actually feel like Reed repsents the way people saw autism/Asperger's throughout history. In the 2000s, he was that annoying, emotionally stunted smarty pants, like Sheldon. Yeah, he was Marvel's Sheldon, but edgier. Then, he was turned into an endearing guy whose special interest is experimenting on unstable molecules or something.
I wonder if we will get the "people's" Reed, where he just plays grand strategy games in his man cave, ahem, lab, beats it to inflation porn and eats Sue's tendies.
I don't even see him as being autistic in the early comics, I dunno how people retrospectively diagnosed him. I mean, he was an academically successful attractive guy who bagged a blonde Stacy and had Aryan kids with her. He was respected by the whole hero community and people looked up to him and followed his advice. This is the opposite of autism lmao, if by autism we don't mean TikTok autism.
>>154429164
Wish we could turn back time, to the good old days...

>>154429237
Dunno. In Nultimates, Reed was mindbroken into Doom and Tony was the aspie kid.

>>154428830
People always talk about how Civil War fucked Tony over, but goddamn does Reed and his magic math billboard and clone Thor still hang over his head.

>>154429552
Civil war and World War hulk fucked all the Illuminaty.

>Dr.Doom calls himself Dr.Doomer because he's eviler and edgier than the original Doom
Based if this happens.

>>154429922
I swear not a single smart decision has ever been done when the Illuminati go into that room.

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>>154417443
>DC makes a bunch of experimental comics with heavy antifascist leanings, having Green Arrow assassinate billionaires like Luigi and Superman saving Palestinians and weighing the cost-benefit analysis of just flattening a few government buildings and Batman piledriving ICE agents
>Marvel's response is "What if the Fantastic Four were vampires!"
Pathetic.

>>154417568
It absolutely is, it’s literally a universe created in Darkseids image!

>Absolute Batman is literally being written by Scott Snyder (the man who created “The Batman Who Laughs”) the entire book is Batman but Dumber and Edgier

>Absolute Superman has Brainiac a self mutilating edge lord.

>Wonder Woman is literally “What If Wonder Woman and Beserk combined”

>Absolutely Green Arrow is literally about a superhero going on a revenge tour killing Billionaires

>Flash is kid being hunted by government for reasons

>Green Lantern is entire town tortured by aliens for reasons

>Martian Manhunter is the only one not really Edgy as it’s more surrealist and a throwback to early Vertigo/Young Animal

>>154430063
I don't know if you know what "edgy" as a pejorative means
The Absolute series going all in on it being cool to murder billionaires and attack police and maybe depose the leaders of aggressive nations isn't the faux "le dark and edgy 90's xtreme," you're talking about. It's actually controversial.

>>154430062
>wwaaahhhhh why can't marvel go woke too!

>>154430102
>I’m going to do so much mental gymnastics to say that this clearly edgy book is not edgy by some weird high standard that makes no fucking sense

Listen I get not wanting to admit you like edgy shit but you can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. the entire premise of these books are built on being Edgy as Fuck

>>154430243
>I can't read
That's nice, dear.

>>154430103
>hating billionaires is le woke
hope your 2 week free subscription of twitter premium was worth it, faggot

>>154430295
I mean...yes? Hating billionaires is a pretty left-leaning viewpoint. You seem confused.
Libertarians and right wingers necessarily see hoarding a billion dollars as a right or virtue.

>>154430255
Anon, it’s ok to admit you have no actual argument. The books are built on being Edgy and that’s what they are, trying to do mental gymnastics won’t change that.

You make it sound like Edgy in and of itself is bad, it’s not. Being Edgy isn’t inherently bad, it’s Edge for the sake of Edge that’s bad. Absolute Superman is edgy for the sake of Edgy and it sucks while Absolute Wonder Woman uses Edginess as a base board for its characters being the way they are.

>>154430295
>implying i don't pay x monthly

>>154430336
you seem to be conflating any left viewpoint with woke. two entirely different things
please learn to google and try again later.
>>154430393
good goy.

>>154430418
Woke has no meaning at this point, anon, but if you want to go by the original meaning of "aware of systemic bias in US law and enforcement" then the Absolute comics are definitely woke.

It's not my problem if you or others define woke as "thing I don't like"

>>154430418
You're welcome, radical left 4chan user.

>>154430062
Nice to see Green Arrow is more sober about the ultrawealthy being innately bad. Contrast to Iron Man who is like "extreme wealth concentration is good when the wealth is concentrated in Tony Stark's net worth."

I thought the new Ultimate universe was good enough to contend with Absolute? Wahappun??? Did they fuck up Hickman Spidey?

>>154417443
Why not just make some Marvel MAX stories?

>>154430551
Hickman and Camp fucked it up, yes.

>>154417443
>How many issues until they pull the plug?
a year so they can pretend 'it was the plan all along'

>>154430641
I'm not even sure what the difference is between MAX, Knights and Red Band. One of them has uncensored swears or something?

>>154430847
Nah, it has a 5yr plan
It seems like Ultimate was killed because this is Dan Buckley’s baby as he’s personally overseeing it’s development

>>154431042
>this is Dan Buckley’s baby
If anything that casts uncertainty over the future of this project since Buckley was given the boot last month.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to make a more serious version of your characters again.

>>154417443
>The X-Men... but they're fighting vampires!
>The Fantastic Four... but Reed Richards is an asshole!
>Spider-Man... but he's Man-Spider!
There's probably more to them but the basic pitch Marvel has communicated for each series just makes them sound kinda dank.

>>154430471
>It's not my problem if you or others define woke as "thing I don't like"
Nice try

>>154431042
>Nah, it has a 5yr plan
They also had a "Inhumans replacing the X-Men" plan and we saw how well that went
I'm personally estimating the usual speculator fueled strong first months, followed by a steep decline and axing of the underperformers within a year

>>154430063
>Wonder Woman is literally “What If Wonder Woman and Beserk combined”
It literally isn’t, you’re making assumptions based on the covers with Diana and her big sword.

>>154417443
>Overly yoked Mr. Fantastic
Marvel took the right lessons from Absolute

>>154419442
Claremont did it a couple of times and ever since then the attitude has been "Did Claremont do it? Then we should keep doing it."

>>154430847
>it was the plan all along
Get over it, you didn't even liked the line to begin with so why the fake outrage?

>>154432525
I didn't like the line that isn't even out yet? what the hell are you talking about?

>>154428922
In contrast it's clear the Absolute guys are in contact with each other and being mindful of who they're using.

>>154432365
Well yeah, that’s Marvel
Constantly repeating several storylines to keep the status quo in a circle

>>154428922
>In the 2010s, Marvel should have just pulled the plug on the Ultimate line and replaced it with a new continuity inspired by the MCU when it was at it's peak, and sold it in a format and locations where it could be aggressively marketed to kids and normies.

They had a really wishy-washy approach during the 2010s. They let Ultimate limp on as they did, their attempts at doing a new line fell flat because they didn't know how to market it. Example of this is that Spidey comic that Robbie Thompson was doing. If you read it you could see this was taking some cues from MCU (even moreso when you see the digital comic follow-ups). But at the time it was announced they weren't sure how to market it and claimed it might be in continuity, which ended up confusing people who read it because they thought it was 616

If their plan was to end the Ultimate line after Secret Wars and have Miles be part of 616, they should've just made Thompson's Spidey the "new" Ultimate Spider-Man of an all-new Ultimate Universe that was more MCU-inspired.

>>154431155
True "Absolute" inversions would violate current editorial mandates

>>154435482
Absolute is "DC Characters as underdogs without their support systems fighting a corrupt system." With Marvel - they're already underdogs, and there already are plenty of stories where they lose their mansions and legal authority to operate. They already fought the corrupt system with 6160 Ultimate. They can and should step up when it comes to art, that's all that's left.

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>>154425104
>Spider-Man Marvel Adventures

>>154417443
The people wanted a Jennifer Kale series and Marvel didn't deliver. It's DOA.

>>154436619
This is a mandated editorial response

>>154417443
Midnight Johnny is going to an degenerate that fuck anything that moves isn't he?

>>154417518
She doesn't look any thiccer than 616 Sue tho?

>>154438330
>inb4 they're Ultimate Pietro & Wanda in blue jumpsuits

>>154417443
its about their shitty mobile midnight sons game and has nothing to do with competing with absolute. they make millions off that game.

How many times are we going to see 'it's like the main universe but edgier!' ? This shit got tired in the 2000s.

Frankly most of Absolute is fucking trash. It's floated entirely by a handful of interesting ideas in a swamp of garbage.

>>154438964
There's no money in your opinion. Instead of being a pretentious poindexter, learn how people work and what appeals to them. It isn't difficult.

>>154439084
No. I prefer a world where people aren't tasteless cunts.

>>154439113
Bro, you're weird. Accept it.

>>154434924
Ultimate should just have ended with Ultimatum instead of limping on for years afterwards. But the "new line" you're talking about wasn't even promoted, marketed or described as a new line, it was just a Spidey comic that was outside normal 616 continuity.

The fact that Marvel weren't doing some new line built around Iron Man, Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc, even if it would've also had a Spidey book in it, just shows they had no clue and didn't even try. I suppose the closest thing we got was that Thor book slightly before his first movie.

>>154417518
I look forward to seeing the interior art make Sue look like a frumpy granny.

>>154430062
Thabks for finally admitting Absolute is just a bunch of stalinists circle jerking themselves to completion about killing "le evil billionaires and ICE", proving it's different from mainline shit in appearance only.

>>154430102
90s shit was actually more controversial than your stalinist circlejerk. Every person in comics agrees with these points, they are literally just preaching to the choir.

>>154438908
Marvel have already released a preview page of Hickman's Vampire X-Men book which showed Wanda and Pietro in Magneto's villain faction for the Game of Thrones inspired thing he wants to do.

Which not only perpetuates the annoying problem of Marvel AUs constantly treating the twins as if they were 100% genuine villains who'd still be in the Brotherhood voluntarily as grown adults, but if these books are indeed a shared universe, it takes them off the table for any potential Avengers title, or any mystic book in Wanda's case, just so they can have a bit part henchmen role here.

>>154430295
That is literally ALL the lefties run on. Even if non-lefties didn't like billionaires, they have better reasons than naked envy. Also, lefties wouldnt have gotten this far without billionaire funding. Neville Roy-Singham ring any bells?

>>154430418
Woke is literally all the left has run on for a decade and a half now.
>>154430471
Woah, got us some friendly fire here.

>>154430521
I assume you have the same view on Soros and Singham as you do on Musk I hope. I sure hope you arent a colossol hypocritical piece of shit.

>>154438964
You are right, inspite of what the commie shill is spouting.

>>154417443
Why is Midnight Reed so buff?

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>>154436875
MA Emma was the best.

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>Nobody actually gives a shit about Midnight and the thread shows it
>Someone brings up Absolute
>Thread immediately devolves into pic related over politics
Every fucking time some shill wants to pull chocks for a failed thread he can't just fuck off he has to stir the fucking pot instead

>>154432537
You were clearly talking about the new Ultimate Universe

>>154440198
the moral of the story is to stop browsing 4chan. I dont mean that as an insult, we should all be leaving this place

>>154440794
No?
Marvel pivots to "t-the plan all along" when things DON'T work, like their decades old habit of announcing something as an ongoing and then tackling a "#5 of #5" when it's shown the concept doesn't have legs. It was at its worst during All New All Different, which they pivoted to "the legacy characters existing alongside the originals was our plan all along!".
I didn't mind the current Ultimate U at all (and my own opinions would be completely irrelevant, since the books ran their intended timeframe as opposed to justifying early cancellations), and it seems like Marvel grossly miscalculated when they decided to pause the line (so much so that they already pivoted there too, saying 'the ultimate U will return' and whatnot).

>>154439468
Hickman sucks. Most of his attempted retcons and reboots also suck.

>>154417443
This Reed looks like his life goal is to cuck other reeds across the multiverse

>>154442144
All true, but unfortunately most of his crap ends up sticking to the wall. Either nobody's allowed to undo Hickman's retcons and mistakes or nobody cares enough to.

>>154439270
I think this might be why IDW was suddenly publishing Marvel kids books for a while (which were generally Spider-Man and Avengers-centric). Marvel for some reason couldn't handle it

>>154425068
>They won't be huge big titted hits, but they can be containment books for fans who want Peter/MJ together, non-Nazi X-Men, and the die hard Avengers fans who still refuse to buy any Avengers book after tBendis raped the franchise.
So basically to a small segment of the public that only exist in your head.

>>154425104
>>154436875
>were routinely better written than the mainline.
not it wasn't. I dunno why this crap is constantly spouted here.
It too much focus on muties in a Spider-Man book, a terrible OC character with an awful name (chat?REALLY?), Emma Frost being out of place, an OOC Gwen and not using some of the better supporting cast from 616.

>>154443215
>a terrible OC character with an awful name (chat?REALLY?)
Chat was her nickname, her name's Sophia.
Also there was nothing wrong with Chat.
Also also, yes mutant focus in a Spidey book is a bit off, but it's not unheard of. Parallels to how Spider-Man persists in doing good despite being considered a masked menace to how the X-Men see things frequently gets used. 616, 1610, Renew your vows.
And either way Chat and Emma worked as appropriately simplified but sensible reps for the pros and cons of what mutants face and cause for the age and audience intended for MA. Using an OC telepath would have been preferable, but it's not like Emma was misused as the misguided, morally conflicted anti-villain.
>OOC Gwen and not using some of the better supporting cast
I sincerely hope your grief with a separate universe is not its sin of not repeating the familiar.

>>154417443
Personally, I liked the cancer-verse.

>>154417443
>Midnight Marvel Universe
Are they already giving up on the Ultimate Universe? Can we just get 1610 back please?

>>154443441
>Also there was nothing wrong with Chat.
what's next? naming yourself subscriptions and superstickers? C'mon man. Easily one of the worst hero names I've ever heard.
>Parallels to how Spider-Man persists
Interesting point, but the muties still feel out of place in a Spider-Man comic.
>I sincerely hope your grief with a separate universe is not its sin of not repeating the familiar.
I never said it should've been a 1:1 representation of 616 characters, but ignoring them entirely to focus on the author's OC waifu is a retarded decision.

>>154443572
>what's next? naming yourself subscriptions and superstickers
You're retarded.

>>154443584
still less retarded than the person defending the name "chat"