What Went So Fucking Wrong?
>>154459933I like the one on the right, he looks like golden age supes brought to life
>>154459933Hiring a man that hates Superman and the American Way.
>>154459933They're still keeping the retarded tacticool lines and refusing to go all out on comic-accurate suits.>b-but you...I do want to see them in bright costumes that are actually tangible pieces of material not shittily CGI'd onto an A-B-lister with a $50M paycheck by underpaid and overworked Indians.
>>154460011I don't think golden age has that fuckass nu52 collar.
On a closer look right has to be a shoop because that suit looks cheaply made like the lines and even the belt look drawn onto it like a child's Halloween costume.
>>154459933Snyder was allowed to direct, rather than just be Cinematographer.
>>154460065Ok, Raj
>>154459933
>>154460011>he looks like golden age supes brought to lifehttps://youtu.be/2Eu1tOQWr1E?si=5NPmR--7LpC99X_CAggressive muscle padding aside, this is what my idea of golden age Superman costume is IRL.
>>154459933When will you admit that Henry was the best post Christopher Reeves Superman we've had /co/?
>>154459933Both are "just okay" Superman movies.
Apologize
>>154460277Did Brian Singer rape him as well?
>>154460065Snyder's not even that good a cinematographer.
>>154459933Well, one’s getting the first standalone sequel since the days of Christopher Reeve, while the other has had a non-starter career ever since…so I guess the world just came to the conclusion that Cavill isn’t a very good actor or worth the price of a cinema ticket.
>>154459933I think the fact that they removed his trunks. Made the suit poopy black instead of blue. And that they made Superman kill a guy is what went wrong
>>154460836he was a marketing gimmick for argylle, the actual movie is retarded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUYTInMV0mg
>>154459933>spamming board with anti-DCU threadsAnon…this is why the snyderfags have such a shitty reputation and why everyone hates you. You’ve been doing this for ten fucking years. If you like the movies that’s great. I like Man of Steel for the most part and Justice League is fine. But you need to let it go. Snyder’s never coming back. After all the #releasethesnydercut harassment he encouraged there’s just no way WB is ever going to hire him again. The only reason you got the Snyder cut was because of the pandemic and WB was desperate for content for their brand new streamer. And guess what? Even after releasing it it didn’t do them any favors. So you need to just let it go. Even if by some miracle Snyder did come back to DC his movies wouldn’t make anymore than the current Gunn crop. They disappointed back when just about every super hero movie was hitting a billie. Do you really think now that the super hero bubble has popped they’d do any better now? They wouldn’t. They’d fail. If people were as into Snyder as you people claim Rebel Moon wouldn’t have been the spectacular failure that it was. You need to let. It. Go
>>154460277bi-sexual non-binary superguy
The one of the left looks like he's about to be plowed by seven black men on a bright white couch. That's your manly man? The superman of faggots?
>>154462317Thats a lot of crying, and coping.
Henry Cavill kind of looks like some creepy amphibian frog with his suit the color and all his fake muscles where as the other guy looks human at least
>>154460277No. This is a fuckawful movie. It's a shame Kevin Spacey was wasted on it.
>>154462453Like the crying and coping snyderfags have been doing for ten years?>bbbbbbbbbbbut adjusted for inflation!
>>154459933Superman isn't relevant anymore.
>>154459933James Gunn is a talentless hack
>>154459933bot thread
>>154460251Even before opening the video I knew that was going to be the "my mom made for me" costume from Superman and Lois.I miss Tyler Hoechlin as Superman.
>>154461220Considering how badly the film bombed, I’d say that the studio overestimated Cavill’s ability to be an audience draw.Which is a recurring trend for him and his tiny lady hands.
>>154459933How can anyone unironically be this loyal to Snyder of all people? He isn't even good.>inb4 gunntardI didn't even watch his superman movie and I was expecting his cinematic universe is going to collapse from the beginning.
>>154462375>The superman of faggots“N-No, I totally don’t fantasize about Wooden McCan’tAct, you Gunn Gooners! That’s why whenever I glaze him, I only bring up his physique and not any of the two whole memorable lines of dialogue he had in the entire nine years he played Superman!!!1!”
>>154460836>one’s getting the first standalone sequelGunn said it's not a sequel.
>>154462317>why everyone hates youWho gives a fuck what redditors think?
>>154461065>poopy blackLow functioning
>>154463740Didn't the whole Snyder movement start on reddit?
>>154464983Pretty sure it was twitter
>>154460011Fpbp
>>154465166As if, Supernerd.
>>154463740Faggot, everyone hates you, especially here.
>>154465210Supergirl bombed, retard. Get over it.
>>154465229Yes it did. How does that vindicate Zack Snyder's garbage?
Apparently Adria Arjona is gonna be the DCU's Wonder Woman. Upgrade or downgrade from Gal?
>>154465229>>154465195Lol, this cultist is angry.
>>154465576
>>154465576upgrade if she is
>>154465576Mega upgrade, I busted many a nut to her scenes in Pussy Island
>>154459933>What Went So Fucking Wrong?Suits not made of wool
>>154465616Meds
>>154460277For what? I always thought it was fine.
>>154465195>nooo why do you want superman to look like superman and not my gay fantasy
>>154467636You need them, yes.
>>154460277He needed more time in the oven.
Superman 2025 was good
The right one is just awful. It doesn't work as some relic from Krypton or as something Ma Kent made by hand.Let's start with the absolute thematic whiplash. Gunn promised a "back to basics," hopeful, classic farmboy Superman, and then slaps the Kingdom Come 'S' on his chest. Do you even know the context of that logo? In that story, Superman chooses that specific design because he believes his humanity, his Clark Kent identity, literally died alongside Lois. It was purposely designed to look harsh, alien, and emotionally distant. It makes zero narrative sense for a back-to-basics Superman to be wearing a grief emblem.Then there is the sheer, unadulterated overdesign. The suit is absolutely plastered in those universally hated Jim Lee New 52 details. The segmented cuffs, the high collar with that weird colored 'V' on the neck, all the unnecessary paneling and lines. It makes the costume look strictly militaristic, like a space-cop uniform, when a "back to basics" suit should look homely and handmade.And the materials are just offensively bad. The main blue fabric looks like it was ripped off a cheap suede couch from a thrift store, and those boots literally look like shiny, molded plastic you'd buy at Spirit Halloween. The fabric is so thick and cumbersome that it completely swallows the actor, doing absolutely zero to compliment his physical build. He looks like he can barely move his arms.Even the color grading you are praising is awful. It isn't "better," it is gaudy and aggressively oversaturated. Christopher Reeve's costume knew exactly how to strike a visual balance with those primary colors so it popped without looking like a deep-fried meme, but this just assaults the eyes.The entire thing is a massive failure. For a project that promised a return to classic form, we got a busy, gaudy, cheap-looking mess. It is literally just the generic MCU idea of what a Superman costume should look like.
>>154467788It was, I really don’t know why /co/ has such a hate boner for it>sexy women>no racebending outside Perry White who’d been previously race bent so now he’s stuck that way, used actual black characters instead of making Lex black or something >Guy was perfect>Israel was the bad guy >an unabashed comic book movie with bright colors and no real “lol isn’t this so silly” winks at the audience (“your name’s Otto Octavius?!! L O L!”)
>>154467907>an unabashed comic book movie with bright colors and no real “lol isn’t this so silly” winks at the audienceThe movie was filled with this shit, and worse, the entire movie shits on Superman's morals and personality.
>>154467907Yes>>154467921No
>>154465576Biggest upgrade so far if true
>>154467921>the entire movie shits on Superman's morals and personalityIf you’re stupid I can understand how you’d take the movie that way
>>154463489By your logic his cameo in Deadpool Wolverine pushed it over the billion
>>154468078Gunn strips Clark of almost all his agency. He spends the entire runtime on the defensive, just passively reacting to the chaos around him rather than driving the plot, and he constantly serves as the punchline to everyone else's joke. The script goes out of its way to mock his earnestness at every single turn. Even Krypto isn't safe from the cynical writing, because instead of a loyal super-companion, he's written as an out-of-control, violent mutt whose primary narrative purpose is to create chaotic situations that further humiliate Clark.The most damning part is how the movie actively frames these snarky, dysfunctional "frat bro" heroes as the actual highlights of the film, at the direct expense of Superman's morality.Look at the scene with Hawkgirl and the corrupt president of not-Russia. She literally drops him from the sky, laughing in his face because he foolishly assumed she would hold back and show mercy like Superman would. And how does the Gunn frame that moment? Not as a horrifying breach of ethics, and not as a tragic contrast to Clark's ideals. The movie treats it as a triumphant, punch-the-air, "badass" highlight moment. The movie actively rewards her for rejecting Superman's wholesomeness, and wants the audience to cheer for it. After all, they're the "heroes" that are actively cleaning Superman's mess.The movies ends with Supergirl calling Superman "bitch," and then the marketing for the Supergirl movie kept this trend, because that’s exactly what Gunn wants us to get a kick from. Pure humilitation ritual for Superman character.
>>154459933Henry Cavill as Superman was wasted on Snyder.
>>154468218Was this written by AI? Because that’s a lot of words for “I’m a nitpicky faggot who is purposely looking for something to bitch about”
>>154468218>just passively reacting to the chaos around him rather than driving the plot,What should he be doing? He sees an issue, he tries to solve it. That's pretty standard Superman>And he constantly serves as the punchline to everyone else's joke. That's your own insecurity showing, not a fault of the film.>Even Krypto isn't safe from the cynical writing, because instead of a loyal super-companion, he's written as an out-of-control, violent mutt Actually there are versions of Krypto in the comics where he's unruly. He listens when it matters. >The most damning part is how the movie actively frames these snarky, dysfunctional "frat bro" heroes as the actual highlights of the film, at the direct expense of Superman's morality.Look at the scene with Hawkgirl and the corrupt president of not-Russia. She literally drops him from the sky, laughing in his face because he foolishly assumed she would hold back and show mercy like Superman would. And how does the Gunn frame that moment? Not as a horrifying breach of ethics, and not as a tragic contrast to Clark's ideals. The movie treats it as a triumphant, punch-the-air, "badass" highlight moment. The movie actively rewards her for rejecting Superman's wholesomeness, and wants the audience to cheer for it. After all, they're the "heroes" that are actively cleaning Superman's mess.Superman solves the issue, they don't. Furthermore, this shit happens in comics already with Hawkman. If he's there he steps in, but its not him condoning murder.>The movies ends with Supergirl calling Superman "bitch," and then the marketing for the Supergirl movie kept this trend, because that’s exactly what Gunn wants us to get a kick from. Pure humilitation ritual for Superman character.Again, your own insecurity. That scene is framed to paint Kara in a more troubled light, it doesn't hurt Superman
>>154459933I feel like the only reason Snyder has this cult is because the MCU was popular with normies while its competition, Snyder’s DCEU, was decidedly not. So the entire movement is built on contrarian, “I’m too cool to like something that’s popular” attitude. Like if the MCU wasn’t a thing but Batman vs Superman was still released as is we’d just remember it as another bad comic movie and not an inspiration for a cult
>>154468328>What should he be doing? He sees an issue, he tries to solve it.Take charge. For example, in this scene, he mutters complaints under his breath without taking any action. He just stood there, watching Mister Terrific kill the Kaiju, even though he was against it. Every problem in the movie is solved through killing, by the way, because Gunn knows the audiences demand catharsis, and he doesn't know any other way to handle it.
>>154468374>Every problem in the movie is solved through killingExcept Lex, the main antagonist, who goes to jail at the end
>>154468370That makes no sense, since Snyder isn’t even part of the competition anymore, yet he still has fans and plenty of people who enjoy his past movies and like to talk about them. More than can be said for most superhero movies, which come and go with little appreciation or discussion.
>>154468374>Take charge. For example, in this scene, he mutters complaints under his breath without taking any action. He just stood thereSuperman doesn't consider himself an authority, at least not yet. There isn't even a Justice League. He's taking charge of the situation by dealing with the collateral damage, which is arguably the more important task of that moment considering 3 heroes were already trying to incapacitate the thing. By the time he realized what Terrific's solution was, it was too late. He scolded him in the moment too, taking charge like you wanted.
>>154468404That's mostly because Gunn needs the characters for sequels.
>>154468374Also Superman inspires the other heroes to take action at the end of the movie and save the people of not-Palestine. Because that’s what Superman does, he inspires he doesn’t boss around like a tyrant
>>154468425>Superman doesn't consider himself an authority, at least not yet.He’s not some newcomer unsure of where he stands. He’s a seasoned veteran, as the movie makes clear.>There isn't even a Justice League.There's the Justice Gang, which is essentially the same thing, and i doubt you will ever see them use the name Justice League.
>>154468415>since Snyder isn’t even part of the competition anymoreHe definitely seems to be angling for the job considering what he’s posting on social media in the hopes to whip up his cult again
>>154468425>By the time he realized what Terrific's solution was, it was too late.Doesn't he have superspeed? He's just standing there, doing nothing, watching everything unfold right in front of him, and all he can manage is to timidly mutter a complaint under his breath.
>>154468415I meant more the origins of the cult and since the majority is made up of the kind of loser who has no personality outside their “cause” it’s stuck around well after there was any chance of him coming back>plenty of people enjoy his past movies and want to continue talking about them, more than can be said for most super hero moviesI mean that’s really not true, it’s just anytime there’s any sort of discussion about current day any sort of DC anything the Snyder cult come in and take over the conversation. It’s why they’re so annoying and hated and get made fun of even in normie circles.
>>154468453>He’s not some newcomer unsure of where he stands. He’s a seasoned veteran, as the movie makes clearI didn't say he's a rookie, I said he doesn't see himself as an authority. There's a difference. Part of Superman's character is humility.>There isn't even a Justice League.There's the Justice Gang, which is essentially the same thing, and i doubt you will ever see them use the name Justice League.The corporate funded yet to be named group is not The Justice League. That's kind of the point. Sure they will likely inevitably reuse The Hall of Justice but Maxwell Lord is not a good thing.>>154468476See this is a prime example of "fan that usually bitches about Superman's OP powers suddenly wants him to be OP". He has ridiculous Super speed, sure, but what did you want him to do exactly? They're T spheres that flew into the creatures stomach, then detonated. By the time he put together what Terrific was doing, there was literally no way to reverse it.
>>154468544>See this is a prime example of "fan that usually bitches about Superman's OP powers suddenly wants him to be OP".I just want the movie to be consistent. He could use the same speed powers he used when saving people one by one with plenty of time in between, even setting time to rescuing a squirrel at that, to stop Mister Terrific from killing the Kaiju.But I understand why Superman didn’t stop Mister Terrific. If he had, Gunn would’ve had to find a creative way to deal with the Kaiju rampage, and he wouldn’t have been able to use that scene to take a jab at Superman.
>>154468680No, you’re nitpicking because you want something to bitch about.
They're both trash in separate but equal ways stop trying to pretend MoS was ever remotely watchable
>>154468680>I just want the movie to be consistent.But it is? >If he had, Gunn would’ve had to find a creative way to deal with the Kaiju rampage, and he wouldn’t have been able to use that scene to take a jab at Superman.Again this is your own personal insecurity bleeding into the film. "The plot didn't go the way I wanted" is not a valid criticism
>>154468528>I mean that’s really not true,Is it? how many of the movies from the first three phases of the MCU, basically the peak of capeshit popularity, do you still see regularly discussed?I can say Iron Man 1, CA:TWS, GOTG1, and Infinity War for sure. Black Panther and the MCU Spider-man seem reasonably popular, but it's strange because it's more like the characters themselves are popular, not the movies.
right movie was more funand capeshit can no longer be to silly or to serious anymore
>>154459933Partly James Gunn, mostly Warner Bros missing the genre window. Every Genre has a cycle when it gets popular. Like in the 1950's Westerns were everywhere. There was always a Western playing in the theaters and at least one Western on every night on television. The cycle goes, Beginning, Golden Age, Deconstruction, End of Genre. For Westerns it was a out a 20 year stretch from the silent film era to the 1930's and 1940's being the Beginning with the 1950's being the Golden Age and buy the early 1960's and the Spaghetti Western being the Deconstruction. Westerns still get made from time to time, like Pale Rider in the 1980's, Tombstone and Unforgiven in the 1990's and Open Range and Appaloosa in the 2000's. But they're few and far between now, although Taylor Sheridan is making a decent run at single handedly bringing the genre back. Still, Capeshit had its Beginning with Blade in 1997 and the X-Men in 2000 that ran to 2008 when Marvel kicked of the Golden Age with Iron Man and the MCU. The Golden Age arguably ended with End Game and we're deep into the Deconstruction with The Boys and Invincible. Cape movies that would have made bank simply for existing yen years ago are failing st the box office. Marvel has a lot of faults, but they at least held things together for a decade or so. Warner just keeps fumbling the ball. We're on our third Batman since Nolan triloy, there have been three cinematic Supermen now. We're up to an equal number of Jokers and Gunn has tossed out whatever past attempts at building a coherent continuity just as Capeshit is passing it's Deconstruction phase and we're going to probably getting a Batman/Superman/Spiderman movie that isn't tied into anything else about once a decade or so. (And yes, Sony has been just as bad woth Spider-Man)
>>154468933You ignored the key part of my post>any time there’s any sort of discussion about anything DC the Snyder cult come in and take over the conversationIf those movies had been unsuccessful and replaced by a different MCU that was successful you’d have the same contrarians bringing up how much better the other was and how the replacement is complete shit.
>>154459933Knuckling under to the NOT MUH SUPERMAN retards.
>>154469254It’s this. Fantastic Four tanking was the real indication that super hero movies/cinematic universes were done. I’m sure Spider-Man will do fine but I’d be shocked if Doomsday breaks a billion
>>154468968>right movie was more funIf you're a nerd, sure. But if you're normal, then it's MoS.
>>154469872If you're a normie you can go to hell
>>154468691>>154468709Samefag
>>154469872Well no duh I'm a nerd. I'm on a dying comics and cartoon board because I've been here for 15 years and I don't plan on leaving until lights out.
>>154469879These movies need to sell to normies, retard.
Supernerds getting uppity. How many times do you losers need to be reminded that your favorite hero sucks?
>>154469915So the goal is to strip everything the IP is known for until its just barely recognizable?
>>154469930You tards always jump to the extremes.
>>154469872>But if you're normal, then it's MoSSo then why did MoS have a 70% second weekend drop? A record until its sequel which had a 75% second weekend drop
>>154469888Wrong, idiot
>>154469951Care to lay a foundation then?
>>154469953Because he isn't Batman at rhe end-of-life the day. Even Wolverine makes more money.
>>154470005Okay but the same summer Iron Man 3 made a billion.
>>154470064Yeah, Iron Man "3"
>>154469987And more Batman. Movies with Batman cameos don't sell. It's gotta be a Batman movie straight up with his name in the title. And he gets top billing.
>>154470080This is BVS all over again. Seems pretty extreme to just copy an old movie.
>>154470064So? MCU was in its prime. Other studios tried to follow suit but ate shit because people only gave a fuck about the MCU, with the DCEU second to it and everything else far the fuck away. Cinematic universes were never a stable model. Only Marvel really got away with it, and now that's over.
>>154470101Who said anything about copying BvS?
>>154470141Gunn already did that with Superman 2025 anyway. Superman character arc in that was copy-pasted from BvS, but with none of the weight or gravitas.
>>154470141Because BVS is a Batman movie co-starring Superman.
>>154470158Like a Chinese bootleg.
I swear Snyderfags are a legit cult of stupid impressionable fags. Reading this thread is evident of that. You do realize Synderposting was ironic back in the day, right?
>>154468374I like this scene because it shows the contrast between Superman the boyscout and everyone else.Superman is focused on minimizing damage, saving civilians, keeping the monster's attention focused on him, and trying to find a way to solve this peacefully.If this was Snyder's Superman he would have punched the monster through a building while Batman seethed.
>>154470169>Because BVS is a Batman movie co-starring Superman.Except my Batman/Superman follows on from a Batman movie.
>>154468218>tdlr>tdlr my gary stu goodie two shoes isn't gary stuish enough and doesn't become praised or whorshiped instantly by the heroes and solves everything with ease.This is why I hate Superman, agency or not, he has to be the exemplar perfect hero that is more plot device and self rightous wank with no real point but to show off the iconic state of the character. That's why people like Gary Stus if their cool, have a edgy but fun personality and get shit done, Superman being all nice and plain benevolent is boring and lazy writing.
>>154470204He saved a fucking squirrel. This shit's a joke.
>>154470215So an unnecessary step if it all reaches the same conclusion?
What's the excuse gonna be when Man of Tomorrow flops?
>>154470225NTA but you're trying too hard to be a pissy baby, just saying. Clark saves cats out of trees, man
>>154470071>>154470105So what you’re saying is that the MCU was popular with normies and that’s why it was successful and why Iron Man 3 hit a billion in the summer of 2013. So if Man of Steel was the Superman movie popular with normies shouldn’t it have done the same or at least get within the ball park..?
>>154470241Starting with Batman is smarter. >>154470005Work smarter not harder, bro.
>>154470266So you're still adding in an unnecessary step because?
>>154470158Except the conflict in Gunn’s Superman was Superman saving people without worrying about geopolitical consequences whereas the conflict in Snyder’s BvS was Superman destroying half of Metropolis without worrying about civilian casualties.
>>154470259>the MCU was popular with normies and that’s why it was successful and why Iron Man 3 hit a billion in the summer of 2013Yes>Man of Steel was the Superman movie popular with normies shouldn’t it have done the same or at least get within the ball park.No because Superman doesn't have the mass appeal that the MCU(at the time) and Batman have. It'll never reach those heights.
>>154470285So dishonest
>>154459933Both look based and better than any MsheU costume. I refuse to fall prey to mousecuck concern trolling.
>>154468218I liked that Hawkgirl killed not-Putin because it's an accurate depiction of her character.Superman being an overly idealistic goody-goody is also true to character.
>>154470280>Batman>an unnecessary stepYeah, you're a Superfag alright. Living in your own little world.
>>154470297How. The opening of Batman vs Superman was Bruce saving a child whose mom was just killed in Superman’s wrestling match with Zod.
>>154470251>you're trying too hard to be a pissy babyThat all you got?>Clark saves cats out of trees, manAnd that’s lame, fag
>>154470355Explain how it's a necessary step.
>>154470222I'm not asking him to be a Gary Stu, my problem is that the movie is deeply cynical, it just hides it behind a brightly saturated color palette and cheap emotional manipulation. Gunn has fundamentally never outgrown his Troma roots, and it bleeds into everything he does. He is pathologically terrified of absolute sincerity.Just look at how the rest of the movie is, outside of Superman. He stuffs the movie with his "Justice Gang," and writes half of them as bickering, cynical assholes. They don't feel like a group of heroes, they feel like the exact same dysfunctional, snarky workplace comedy dynamic he used in Guardians of the Galaxy and Peacemaker. He uses them to actively point and laugh at Superman's Boy Scout nature, framing classic heroism as the punchline to a joke in a world that is supposedly "hopeful."Gunn has Nicholas Hoult’s Lex Luthor literally execute a guy on screen in cold blood. It’s wildly hypocritical to claim you’ve "saved" Superman from a dark, brooding universe when your own villain is committing visceral, on-screen murder while your heroes act like dysfunctional frat bros that kill willy-nilly while mocking Superman's moral values.It is a deeply cynical, MCU-ified parody of hope that relies on cheap nostalgia bait to distract you from the fact that the director fundamentally doesn't respect the supposed earnestness of the character.
>>154470287>No because Superman doesn't have the mass appeal that the MCU(at the time)>MCUNo one gave a single solitary shit about Iron Man until his movie. If Man of Steel was as popular with normal audiences as you’re claiming the same would’ve easily happened with Superman.
>>154470371Because it's Batman, retard. And Batman makes bank.
>>154470368>Clark saving cats out of trees is lameI will fucking cut you for saying any sort of shit about Donner’s Superman you fucking faggot.
>>154470375It's like talking to a low functioning wall. Cheers, bitch.
>>154470383So the goal is to go to an extreme and not make Superman movies and instead make Batman movies that occasionally feature Superman?
>>154470407Exactly.
>>154470398Explain how it’s different. Explain why Iron Man was able to become popular with a normal audience while Superman hasn’t.
>>154470420I thought we weren't try to deal with extremes.
>>154470393Reeve Superman saving the cat was a setup to a joke about child abuse.
>>154470393Oh I'm so scared lol
>>154459933Cavill as Superman is like Matthew Mcconaughy as Bond. Let that sink in>
>>154470407I mean tbf WB tried that with BvS and it didn’t work out
>>154470439What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
>>154470368>And that’s lame, fagFinally we've gotten to the root of the problem.Assholes don't like the boyscout version of Superman because it's "lame and gay". They want edgy Man of Murder because they think it's cooler.Put simply, they just don't like Superman as a character. They don't want Superman to be Superman. They want him to be Lobo.
>>154470330The problem is that the movie portrays Hawkgirl as morally justified and treats the killing as a triumphant moment meant to be celebrated. You know, the same scene where Hawkgirl shits all over Superman's morality. And throughout the movie, Superman’s idealistic, goody-goody nature is portrayed as corny, dumb, and embarrassing. As I mentioned, it ends with Supergirl calling him a “bitch.” It would be different if the film had built a contrast, showing other characters admiring and respecting Superman’s character and presence, so that his little cousin’s lack of reverence could be chalked up to their family dynamics. Instead, the scene just drives home the point that Superman is a “bitch,” reinforcing the prevalent trend of people talking down to him, and about him.
>>154470452It worked for a moment but it didn't work long term. The whole universe basically collapsed right after.
>>154470437Yeah people weren’t pussies in the 70s and smacking your child for lying wasn’t a big deal and the child claiming “ptsd” or whatever.
>>154470467>Assholes don't like the boyscout version of SupermanSuperman 2025 wasn't the boyscout version of Superman, it was the parody version of Superman, made by a Troma faggot.
>>154470476>it worked for a momentIt worked for all of one weekend then sank like a stone its second weekend
>>154470469>crying about Supergirl calling her cousin a bitchSomeone can’t handle bantz
>>154470506Well lmao then.
>>154470523That's not bantz, she's just a cunt
>>154470523Are you guys this slow, and obtuse? My issue isn’t with Supergirl calling him a “bitch” in that moment. I even explained how that scene could work, and actually be funny, if the rest of the movie had been different. The real problem is that the whole film portrays Superman as a passive, overly emotional pushover, while everyone around him tears him down and disregards everything he stands for, with the movie often presenting their perspective on Superman as the correct one.
>>154470467>they just don't like Superman as a character.And neither does the rest of the world.
>>154470469>the movie portrays Hawkgirl as morally justified and treats the killing as a triumphant moment meant to be celebratedIt’s a cathartic moment for the audience because the guy was such a piece of shit. I know it doesn’t count since it’s inside baseball but knowing that at least at one point Gunn wanted to make an Authority movie and that scene being taken directly out of the Authority comic it was probably supposed to lead to something. This is reinforced by the very next scene of Rick Flagg saying something like “the metahumans make the rules now”. >shits all over Superman’s moralityOkay yeah you’re just looking for things to bitch about
>>154470573>This is reinforced by the very next scene of Rick Flagg saying something like “the metahumans make the rules now”.Something that makes no sense because the movie's text-crawl tells us that metahumans have always existed.
>>154470559Other characters do side with Superman. The Indian dude helping him up. An entire country is chanting for him at the end of the movie. I think that other anon is right and you’re letting your own insecurities cloud your viewing of this movie. The other super heroes see him as old fashioned which is a pretty typical complaint lobbed at Superman. Lois gives him the business for getting involved in a politically sensitive area without thinking it thru. Supergirl calls him a bitch because she’s his cousin and cousins can bantz/she’s a drunk.
>>154470595But this is likely the first time a metahuman has murdered a head of state at least in modern times.
>>154459933ugly manlet syndrome
>>154460277i riked Superboy
>>154460030It has trunks tho
>>154468218Except that the whole Supergirl movie is about how she's actually a fucking wastoid who comes around and realizes that superman might be on to something.
>>154470640It is massively ironic that you are aggressively projecting your own insecurities onto me and attacking my character simply because I am actually criticizing the tonal execution of a cape movie.You can cope all you want about cousins having "bantz" or the in-universe public eventually chanting his name, but I am entirely right to point out that James Gunn is fundamentally terrified of absolute sincerity. He is drastically more at ease writing the cynical, bickering, abrasive dynamic of the "Justice Gang." That is the exact reason Guy Gardner, Hawkgirl, and Mister Terrific were shoehorned into a movie that was marketed as a foundational Superman story. Gunn clearly favors them, which is exactly why they inexplicably get to star in the best, most energetic scenes. He naturally defaults to his snarky, ensemble comfort zone because he doesn't know how to handle a protagonist whose core trait is pure earnestness.The issue isn't just that the characters see him as old-fashioned. The issue is that the director treats Superman as the fundamental butt of the joke in his very own movie. When almost every single interaction is designed to undercut Clark's morality with bathos, and his own supporting cast constantly dunks on him for cheap laughs, you aren't watching an exploration of his ideals. You are watching a cynical director use a beloved icon as a punching bag.the entire film feels vastly more like a snarky, self-aware parody movie than an earnest, hopeful take on the character.
>>154470721>who comes around and realizes that superman might be on to something.She doesn't.
>>154462453He is right anon, Snyder isn't coming back.
>>154470717So does every other age.
>>154470748>He is drastically more at ease writing the cynical, bickering, abrasive dynamic of the "Justice Gang." That is the exact reason Guy Gardner, Hawkgirl, and Mister Terrific were shoehorned into a movie that was marketed as a foundational Superman storyOoooorrrrrrr they’re there as a foil to Superman’s old timey heroics to their more modern, cynical, corporate heroics? Y’know for you Snyder guys that are so big on subtext and metaphors you seem to be having a hard time with what’s presented literally in a movie.
>>154468107Deadpool is an established character whose first movie reached a billion, Cavill's cameo was just an easter egg for fans.
>>154470796And yet people liked them better than Superman.
>>154465576She is not jew so an upgrade
When Snyderchads invoke mythology, they don’t mean flashy CGI or obligatory Marvel-style cameos, we’re pointing to something rare in the modem day; mythic cinema that operates on intellectual, emotional and archetypal layers.Snyder’s Superman isn’t a quip machine it’s a cosmic parable grappling with the alienation, existential grief, sacrifice and the burden of divinity collapsing into humanity that comes from a truly great heroes actions.That weight persists in the films where Clark isn’t just choosing good he’s grappling with a cosmic inheritance. Each step he step he takes reverberates through his universe and literally ushers in a new age of heroes.Contrast that with Gunn’s Superman (2025) bright instagram filter friendly décor, comedic cameos and a canine mascot stealing every memorable moment. So called critics laud it for having "charm and optimism" but beneath the Instagram filters lies emotional flimsiness unwilling to commit to the story that dilutes Superman into a goodwill mascot disconnected from mythic potency .What Snyder did was more than an origin he invoked myth. Krypton’s twilight, Kal-El’s anguished awakening and that post-9/11 trauma kiss in rubble all of it references the crucible of classical epics and biblical archetypes. Superman becomes Prometheus and Moses interwoven, not just a PR-friendly brand.Gunn’s Superman by contrast, feels like an algorithmic compromise to the Snyder era a forced "wholesome" frictionless, cameo‑rich…and void of true resonance corporate slop product.It resets with fake sincerity, sidesteps moral paradox, and literally trots out a dog in his cape instead of confronting the myth of Superman.That's not evolution in a story, it’s emotional sanitization a funko pop pandering product for brainless consoomers.
>>154467907>coIt's mostly snydertards who don't socialize outside this place
>>154470835Cry harder
>>154470812Did they?
>>154470843You just proved that anon right.
>>154468415seethe retard
>>154468415>yet he still has fans and plenty of people who enjoy his past movies and like to talk about themAnd none of you watched any of his new projects like Rebel Moon.
>>154468933You just named five movies that are still regularly discussed you stupid retard. Hell, I'd even add Dr. Strange and the multiverse of madness just for how awful that was.
>>154462317Most people don’t like or care about the DCU though. It’s the small minority of Gunnfags that cry wolf(Snyder) whenever something doesn’t go their way. Your post for example.
>>154470080Batman wasn't a cameo in BvS you blind idiot.
>>154470989>Batman wasn't a cameo in BvS you blind idiotWasn't talking about BvS, retard.
>>154459933the first looks like someone actually tried to reimagine Superman to create an epic in filmthe other looks like a desperate attempt to be "comic accurate"
>>154470204>If this was Snyder's Superman he would have punched the monster through a building while Batman seethed.True.
>>154470864By clowning on him?
>>154459933They hired people with Down Syndrome to play Superman and Supergirl. Very straightforward line to failure.
>>154470974I think most people who saw Superman ‘25 liked it, definitely moreso than Man of Steel. Supergirl definitely didn’t land with audiences though. >Gunnfags that cry wolf (Snyder)Maybe if snyderfags didn’t act like perpetual toddlers for the last ten years people wouldn’t immediately assume it’s them when someone posts a comparison between Snyder’s Superman and Gunn’s going “what went so wrong??” and then posting in the same thread nitpicks of Gunn’s Superman
>>154459933It’s blatantly obvious especially after Supergirl just how little care Gunn has for visuals. Like nobody in their right mind would green light that dirty Hal Jorden suit. Half the problem with the DCU is the cruddy CW presentation.
>>154460101Brendan Frasier's never been that jacked, and his off center fish eyes remind me of Steve Buscemi, but I think he would have done great in the role during his heyday, sometime between The Mummy and The Mummy 2.
>>154470373>It’s wildly hypocritical to claim you’ve "saved" Superman from a dark, brooding universe when your own villain is committing visceral, on-screen murder while your heroes act like dysfunctional frat bros that kill willy-nilly while mocking Superman's moral values.That's the thing: none of the characters you named are Clark. He remains idealistic during the whole movie, unlike Clark is BvS.
Man of Tomorrow's gonna get double teamed by Shrek and Minecraft 2.
>>154470398lol this fag is angry
>>154471060it's boring. you're more concerned with how you want Superman to behave at all times rather than being a character with an arc.
>>154471068It very well might. But it won’t change the fact that the Snyder DC movies are trash.
>>154471039Snyderfags genuinely like and defend their movies though. Gunnfags can’t even defend Supergirl they just cry misogyny or capefatigue. And they can’t just go around calling people that don’t like or didn’t see supergirl Snyderfags because that creates an awkward truth since basically everybody did not care to watch Supergirl.>I think most people who saw Superman ‘25 liked itMost people that saw it liked it but they didn’t love it, and that’s a big issue because you can’t retain an audience being just okay. People overseas didn’t see it at all. Supergirl paid the price of Superman’s failure and it was much steeper than any of us anticipated.
>>154471077That all you got?
>>154470796Yes, anon, I understand the concept of a foil. In fact, that is exactly what I initially hoped for and thought we were going to get. I was genuinely expecting a cinematic adaptation of something close to "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?", a story where Clark's earnest, classic morality is challenged by modern, violent cynicism, only for him to definitively prove why his way is superior.But having a foil only works if the narrative actually allows the protagonist to win the ideological battle through action. The problem is that what the movie actually gave us was the cynical heroes repeatedly saving the day.If you look at what is literally presented in the movie, almost every major problem introduced in the plot is fixed by the Justice Gang or Krypto, not Superman. Gunn deliberately gives the snarky side characters all the hyper-stylized, "rule-of-cool" action sequences perfectly choreographed to his usual indie needle drops. They are framed as effective, triumphant, and competent.Meanwhile, how is the titular character treated? The movie literally opens with Superman getting completely beaten down only to be rescued by Krypto, and then later he is just passively imprisoned by Lex Luthor and made weak by kryptonite. He is a helpless punching bag in his own origin story.When you frame your cynical, corporate "foils" as the actual badasses who resolve the plot, and you frame your earnest hero as an ineffective, overly emotional spectator who constantly needs to be helped or rescued, you completely fail the thematic premise. It is absolutely no wonder that after the movie released, the general audience was exclusively praising Guy Gardner, Hawkgirl, and Mister Terrific. Gunn made them the actual stars of the film because his brain fundamentally doesn't know how to let a genuine boy scout be cool.
>>154471068I believe the term is spitroasted
>>154470852They did. Especially Mr Terrific
>>154471113That too
>>154470721Kara kills Krem and feels no remorse. Not even you shills are watching these shitheap movies.
>>154470786except new 52
>>154471039If general audiences truly enjoyed Gunn's Superman that much, and actually connected with his vision for the DCU, Supergirl wouldn't have bombed so catastrophically.Think about it for five seconds. When a cinematic universe actually launches successfully and resonates with the public, that goodwill naturally carries over to the immediate follow-ups. If people actually bought into Gunn's take on Superman, they would have eagerly shown up for his cousin's solo outing. Instead, the movie completely flatlined at the box office. That isn't what happens when a franchise successfully reinvents itself and wins over the crowd, that is what happens when the first movie relies entirely on superficial nostalgia bait and initial curiosity, leaving absolutely zero lasting impact or emotional investment for the universe going forward.
>>154471104>Snyderfags genuinely like and defend their movies thoughDo they though? Every defense I see of Snyder movies is an anon’s head canon of events in the movie and you’d think if they actually like the movie they could defend it without resorting to head canon. But that doesn’t justify throwing a tantrum for ten years. I like Hulk ‘03 better than MCU Hulk but I’m not spamming every single Disney social media post with “#bringbacktheleeverse” or “#dontmakemeanglee”. And I haven’t seen a single “gunnfag” cry about misogyny. All the people I’ve seen cry about misogyny being the reason for Supergirl’s failure are the usual Twitter suspects who post that about every female led movie that bombs. Are there even any “gunnfags”? I’ve never seen anyone defend the current DCU with the same fervor as snyderfags defend Snyder shit
>>154470816bot rambling
>>154471013yes you sure showed him you autistic fuck
>>154471167>Think about it for five seconds. When a cinematic universe actually launches successfully and resonates with the public, that goodwill naturally carries over to the immediate follow-upsMaybe ten years ago when super hero movies were the hotness but that ship has sailed. It’s very possible Gunn’s Superman didn’t hit hard enough for audiences that are already sick of super hero movies and big CGI genre movies to ignore poor reviews on a spin off and Supergirl’s failure might hurt Man of Tomorrow. But, again, this isn’t ten years ago where super hero movies got passes from both critics and audiences, they’re a harder sell post-Endgame, post-Covid, and post-MCU streaming flood.
>>154471079boring to you maybe, not to the intended audience
>>154471182I think that's Armond White's review, if i'm not mistaken.
>>154471105are you still angry?
>>154471223you mean the popcorn muncher who doesn't know shit about superman? because that's the whole point of mainstream movies
Getting the vibe that the sperg who hated 2025 ITT doesn't actually read Superman, and has this inflated idea in his head
>>154471225Is he a robot or something?
>>154471294You are literally trying to pull a textbook "No True Scotsman" fallacy because you have completely run out of actual arguments. You can't refute a single structural, thematic, or narrative criticism I've made about the film's cynical tone or its treatment of the character, so your brain just defaults to, "He didn't clap for the shiny colors and the forced needle drops, so he must not really read Superman!"The reality is, I know vastly more about Superman's 80-year comic history than James Gunn ever will. You are fiercely defending the comic literacy of a director who didn't even know that Clark Kent had a middle name. The man was literally unaware that his name is Clark Joseph Kent and had to be corrected online, yet you treat his vision like he's some infallible, definitive scholar of the DC mythos.He doesn't know the deep lore, and he fundamentally doesn't respect the earnestness of the character without hiding behind a wall of snark. But please, keep projecting your complete lack of a counter-argument onto me to protect your butthurt ego.
>>154471358Man fuck off with your debate club bullshit. Every one of your criticisms have been refuted in this very thread you just ignore it and double down on some more AI written nit pick.
>>154471197Says the low functioner.>>154471236Are you still malding?
>>154470816You know what Snyder didn’t invoke?Convincing romantic chemistry between Superman and Lois. And then, retard that he is, Snyder was going to make the death of the latter be the dramatic impetus for his entire faggy Knightmare timeline. The highest stakes of his universe was being built around a narrative element he was too retarded to get right in the first place.“Weight reverberating between the characters”, my ass.
>>154460836Matthew Vaughn lost his god damn mind and is more interested in stealing money for retarded ideas that somehow get actors signed on.
>>154471358Pretty much this anon>>154471406. We've pretty much covered every one of your points in this thread, and yeah its a YOU problem. You keep trying to say Clark is made a joke, yet it's clear that we're more talking about the chip on your shoulder at this point.
>>154468271>Henry Cavill’s Superman was wasted on SnyderOxygen was wasted on Henry Cavill, given how his acting career has turned out.
>>154471481>>154471406You haven't refuted a single thing, and patting yourselves on the back in a collective circle-jerk doesn't magically make your non-arguments true.Notice how the absolute second you are actually asked to engage with the narrative structure of the film or defend its script, you immediately start crying about "debate club bullshit," resorting to ad hominems, and accusing me of having a "chip on my shoulder"? That is textbook projection.You aren't attacking my character because you've successfully dismantled my points, you are attacking me because you are completely backed into a corner. Your superficial talking points have run dry, and you've realized you have absolutely no textual defense for how poorly the movie actually treats its own titular character.Screaming "nuh-uh, it's a YOU problem" is not a refutation. It is just you waving the white flag because you lack the basic media literacy required to actually analyze what is happening on the screen. You have zero actual counter-arguments left. Just take the L and go back to clapping at the shiny colors.
>>154471427are you still brown?
>>154471618>YOU'RE BROWN!Yawn! Get some new material already.
>>154471558They're low functioners, bro. They're barely human. Probably fugly too.
Snyder is superior for her alone
>>154471629so you are brown
>>154471558Anon, at this point we’re just talking in circles with you and you’re getting worked up into a frothing rage. Your points have been addressed. You didn’t like the answers and that’s fine, no one’s trying to convince you to like the movie we’re just pointing out that the issue was either addressed in the movie or what your interpretation was wasn’t the movie’s intent. However you getting this aggro about the topic tells me there is some sort of -you- problem hidden in here.
>>154471558nta but your points are retarded
>>154471659Not even close, poindexter.>>154471667>Your points have been addressedShow your work.
>>154468374This looks horrendous. Ugly murky colors too.
>>154471446This was actually something I think Gunn managed to do a lot better than Snyder. Snyder’s Superman, especially in Batman v Superman, really didn’t connect with anyone. I dunno if Cavill just can’t act or Snyder was purposefully directing him this way but he lumbers around the whole movie with this stank face where he just seems like he’s sick to death of humans and he delivers all his lines with this cold delivery like he’s Dr Manhattan. One of the great things about Superman is the irony that a literal alien is actually one of the most human people you’ll ever meet. Snyder didn’t seem to get that and treated him as some sort of detached, again, Dr Manhattan-like character where Gunn treated him like a human being, having chemistry with other characters, getting angry, making mistakes, getting his feelings hurt, all that stuff that makes us human
>>154459933Listening to the loud larper minority. Normal people don’t care about the nitty gritty details of incredibly arbitrary character “portrayal”. They like Cavill and they like Superheroes doing epic things. Also anyone who actually reads comics not only know Cavill is valid, they also know the comics fucking suck. Hence why Nolan found success without them. Rachel isn’t even a real character. But it is hilarious how the best selling stuff right now is the Snyder coded Absolute series.
>>154471683>show your work*gestures at entire thread*
>>154471716>Snyder coded Absolute seriesAbsolute Superman is literally just Burton’s Superman Lives, right down to the “security blanket” costume
>>154471717Point out the posts. You know what you typed. Point them out. Be transparent.
>>154471683>show>>154468078>>154468328>>154468544
>>154471446As someone who thinks MoS and BvS are a 9/10 I did not care for his Knightmare plan, JL was like a 6/10. I’m also not going to pretend to care about Clark/Lois relationship but it is weird that Snyder was going to use that as the main drive for future plot.
>>154471735>Absolute Superman is literally just Burton’s Superman Lives,How?
>>154471750Don’t listen to that anon hes just being disingenuous
My basic bitch sister didn't like that Superman kept on getting his ass kicked.
>>154471741Only if you are not brown
>>154471558>You haven't refuted a single thingWe have, read the thread, scroll up. The only tactic you have left is to be an insufferable autistic sperg and conduct a war of attrition until sane anons just leave the thread.
>>154471742That's it? Those are your debunks?
>>154471782NTA but you haven't done shit but attack others for daring to besmirch your favorite movie. You're a joke.
>>154471768I didn't like that either.
>>154471783That's not an argument>>154471799SamefagSee, now the thread is devolving because you refuse to acknowledge your points were addressed
>>154471799>>154471741>>154471683>>154471558>>154471637All me btw
>>154471705>where Gunn treated him like a human being, having chemistry with other characters, getting angry, making mistakes, getting his feelings hurt, all that stuff that makes us humanOr because there's a huge exposition dump, i mean, speech in the movie spoon-feeding us all that?
>>154471815>now the thread is devolving because you refuse to acknowledge your points were addressedI'm a different anon.
>>154471815>That's not an argumentAnd those aren't debunks.
>>154471854>>154471864Again, war of attrition at this point. You're a joke. Acknowledge or fuck off
>>154471851No, how earlier in the movie he loses his temper with Lois as she’s questioning him, has a rapport with the staff of the Daily Planet, gets his feelings hurt with #supershit, has actual chemistry with Lois. I’ll grant you that speech was putting a hat on a hat but all those things are actually demonstrated in the movie.
>>154471742Let's actually look at these pathetic "refutations," shall we?>If you're stupid I can understand...Ah yes, a brilliant, high-level defense of the film's themes. Straight to ad hominems because you have zero actual counter-arguments.>What should he be doing? He sees an issue, he tries to solve it.You are literally admitting he is a passive character. A well-written protagonist drives the narrative; they don't just wander from set-piece to set-piece aimlessly reacting to the chaos the supporting cast initiates.>"there are versions where he's unruly in the comics"Completely misses the basic concept of cinematic language. It doesn't matter what happened in a random issue from the 2000s, what matters is that Gunn chose to write and frame Krypto in this specific movie as a chaotic prop designed exclusively to create situations that humiliate Clark and farm cheap bathos.>"that shit happens in the comics"Defending Hawkgirl's brutality with that is the ultimate cope. Again, you are actively ignoring the director's framing. Gunn doesn't frame her dropping a guy from the sky as a terrifying contrast to Superman's morality, he frames it as a "rule-of-cool," badass highlight reel moment. The movie actively wants the audience to cheer for the cynical violence, not for Superman's restraint.The T-Sphere argument is the most hilarious self-own in your collection of posts. You literally just admitted that the script purposely contrived a situation to completely neuter Superman's god-tier speed and perception just so Mister Terrific could get the badass, nonchalant finishing blow on the creature. That is exactly what I said: Gunn strips Superman of his agency and competence just to make his pet "Justice Gang" characters look cooler and more effective.There. Were those your "gotcha" arguments?
>>154471750>his suit is an AI that is supposed to protect him after Krypton’s destruction>the more “fish out of water” alien personality>Brainiac being a megalomaniac instead of a cold, calculating machine>his suit and cape having offensive capabilitiesI know there’s more but it’s late and I have work tomorrow. But Absolute shares more with Burton’s plans than it does anything Snyder did.
>>154471935>all of this because your nitpicks got refutedEither you are just furiously typing away or this is AI. I honestly hope it’s AI because Jesus Christ anon.
>>154471905I aint acknowledging your bullshit, Supertard.
>>154471950Those aren't exclusive to Lives, dude. You're reaching.
>>154471961These aren’t nitpicks at all, they’re major flaws in the movie, ones that undermine Superman as a character. It’s no surprise Supergirl is tanking, who would be interested in seeing more tied to this version of Superman?
>>154471961NTA but that's not an argument. Either defend your position or fuck off. Shitting on him isn't gonna make you right.
>>154471982>NTADoubt. But I’ve defended my position all throughout this thread and you’ve just ignored it.
>>154471973Is there any other Superman media where Superman’s suit is a protective AI that has offensive capabilities?
>>154471935You do realize you just replied again to posts you already resplied? And you you realize all those points were already answered? It's ok if you don't like the movie but don't act as if this isn't you arguing for the sake of it because you have a chip on your ass.
>>154459933Left was boring and too dull. Right didn't get a good follow up film
>>154471981>they’re major flaws in the movie, ones that undermine Superman as a characterThey’re not. Your arguments boil down to “Superman isn’t the omnipotent, uncaring god that he was in Snyder’s movies and I don’t like it”. There’s nothing wrong with having your own preference for a character but just because something uses a different interpretation doesn’t mean it’s a “major flaw”
>>154471989>But I’ve defended my position all throughout this thread and you’ve just ignored it.You didn't defend shit. All you did was make speculations, recap a scene without digging into what worked and what didn't, and attack anyone who disagreed with you. That's not a defense. That's a fanboy throwing a fit. So much for kindness is punk rock.
>>154460101It's honestly shocking how much he looks like picrel
>>154471996New 52
>>154472024>attack anyone who disagreed with you. That's not a defense. That's a fanboy throwing a fitI haven’t attacked anyone. You’re the only one in this thread having a meltdown. The rest of us are just sick of talking in circles.
>>154472015>There’s nothing wrong with having your own preference for a characterThen why are you shitting on him for it?
>>154472024Why would I be kind to some retard on /co/ of all places? Are you some sort of autistic manchildren or something?
>>154472029New52 suit didn’t have an AI that talked to him and I don’t believe had any sort of offensive capabilities only defensive in being a sort of armor. But I could be wrong about that I only read those issues once as they were coming out.
>>154469778Do people do that for the Andrew Garfield Spiderman movies? He's Marvel's Superman.
>>154471989I didn't ignore a single thing you said, you absolute coward. I literally took every single one of your "defenses" in my last post, broke them down, and completely dismantled them.The problem is that you think responding with aggressive ad hominems and superficial bullshit counts as a "defense.">>154472015Are you actually hallucinating, or is the Snyder boogeyman just permanently tattooed on the inside of your eyelids?I haven't mentioned Snyder's Superman a single time in this specific line of criticism. You are literally just shadowboxing a fabricated strawman because you have absolutely zero defense for the glaring structural flaws of the movie in front of you.I am criticizing Superman 2025 entirely on its own merits. And on its own merits, it fundamentally fails. My argument has absolutely nothing to do with wanting an "omnipotent, uncaring god." It has to do with wanting a protagonist who actually possesses basic narrative agency and is respected by the director's framing. I am criticizing the movie because Gunn strips Clark of his competence, turns him into a passive, defensive spectator in his own story, and hands all the actual plot resolution and triumphant moments to a cynical gang of corporate frat-bro heroes.I don't dislike it because it's "not Snyder." I dislike it because the script actively rewards cynicism and violence while treating Superman's earnestness as a pathetic punchline to be mocked by his own supporting cast and a violent CGI dog. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the character wrapped in a cynical, self-aware workplace comedy.
>>154472029I don't remember new 52 suit having being some sort of AI with offensive capabilities
>>154472037I’m not, I’m shitting on him for nitpicking a movie, having a meltdown when people refute those nitpicks, and not letting go of the Snyderverse.
>>154472051>reddit spacing go back
>>154472063Is this another one of your "arguments"?
>>154472036>I haven’t attacked anyoneUh huh...>>154468078>If you’re stupid I can understand how you’d take the movie that way>>154468328>That's your own insecurity showing, not a fault of the film.>Again, your own insecurity
>>154472049Not to the point of the Snyder cult. You’ll see an occasional “it’d be nice if we got amazing spider-man 3” but you don’t see bots spamming every Sony post with “restorethewebbverse”. But also I don’t think Marc Webb spends his time on social media talking about how amazing and awesome his plans were.
>>154472070Not me, that a different anon.
>>154471327
>>154472040Guess kindness isn't punk rock then.
>>154472076First one’s me but that’s not attacking for preferring something else that was attacking for deliberately misreading the intent of the story to have something to bitch about.
>>154472080>Not to the point of the Snyder cultJesus Christ, you're obsessed.
>>154472076NTA but telling anyone that his insecurities are showing is hardly an attack.
>>154472080To be fair, I think Sony dropped the ball by not tying Venom, Morbius, Kraven, and others to Garfield’s Spider-Man. If they were so intent on releasing these Spider-Man-adjacent characters, they should have connected them to a version of Spider-Man people recognize and somewhat liked in Spider-Man: No Way Home.
>>154472103It shows you don't have an argument and instead resort to bitch tactics to get a win. It's pathetic. If you're not gonna argue in good faith, then fuck off. Simple. It's just more nerd rage.
>>154471935I didn't read any of the shit you wrote down, I just watched the webm because that's a great scene.
>>154472119It's Power Rangers' tier, and plenty of low-budget Power Rangers shows did it better.
>>154471935>A well-written protagonist drives the narrative; they don't just wander from set-piece to set-piece aimlessly reacting to the chaos the supporting cast initiates.....He does? He knows Luthor is making plays, but he has no idea how it all connects or his next movie. Luthor is forcing him to be reactionary. To have anything else is to have mary sue knowledge, which you as the audience member are already privy to.>Completely misses the basic concept of cinematic language.So do you want to pull from comics or not? You earlier complaint was making Krypto a faithful companion, which you claim the movie didn't follow the comics, and now when confronted with a clear example you shift. Make up your mind. That right there tells me you're more concerned about what YOU want rather than what the material is.>T sphere killing is now contrived....Which is ironic because you want Clark to go faster than the speed of light into the kaiju to stop the bombs and fly out. How is that not contrived?You're not as smart as you think you are, anon. At this point I'm convinced all you want is the last word
>>154471167>>154471216Superman 2025 failed to resonate with audiences and there’s really no excuses for Gunn with Brand New Day right here. It’s not like Superman doesn’t have the basis for success, he’s one of the big three. It was a shoddy script with underwhelming visuals. Gunn also undercut himself with his own comedic formula and distaste for the predecessor. Corenswet was a perfect cast but there was too much potential left on the table. James Cameron has the correct ideology: create an adventure that can connect to people ages 8 to 80. Gunn ended up making a movie for himself and hence only appealed to a subset of DC fans. He should’ve made a heroes journey that resonated with everybody. A tried and true cape flick would’ve ended up with a 93+ RT score.
>>154472093>deliberately misreading the intent of the story to have something to bitch about.That's your schizo opinion, bro. You're just another nerd getting pissy that someone's not keen on something you worship. You're not the bigger man, but you are a big fat nerd.
>>154472116but your insecurities are showing, that's not an attack, that's an observation
>>154472080You've got a good point there, considering this is the first time I've heard the name "Marc Webb".>>154472107I thought they legally weren't permitted to do so? Like, as part of the deal saying "We get Spiderman exclusively, but you get to keep making flicks about his rogues gallery."
>>154472119>that's a great scene.Ew, shit taste.
>>154472139what, don't you like Fun Fun Fun, snyderjeet?
>>154472116No see its not an attack, but rather pointing out your own bias which in turn you put on the film as a fault for some reason. The film not catering to you specifically, and pointing out that you are taking personal offense to something that when most are not going to interpret it that way is a clear issue on your part. Make sense?
>>154471558
>>154472128It didn't, you are delusional or retarded.
>>154472149>snyderjeetObsessed
>>154472166You sure are, to keep coming into and making threads like these just to shit over something you can't STAND the idea of people enjoying.
>>154472160>It didn'tIt did.
>>154472129Aren't we all nerds tho? Look where we are. Look where you are. If you were a normie you would be somewhere else doing something different pr discussing a different topic instead of seething about a movie you didn't like.
>>154472170Yeah, you're nuts. Seek help.
>>154472130>but your insecurities are showingYou're really gonna spam that, huh? Lame.>but rather pointing out your own bias which in turn you put on the film as a fault for some reasonWrong dude.
>>154472178>If you were a normie you would be somewhere else doing something differentI'm bored, high and it's 12AM.
>>154472178Fucking this.Any rational person would have move on about this instead of trying to stirr a debate about a nothing burger.
>>154472205Then do something more productive than being a whiny fanboy on co
>>154472127Nobody is asking for Superman to have "Mary Sue knowledge" and magically resolve Lex Luthor's overarching master plan in the first act. Obviously, the villain is making plays behind the scenes. What I am asking for is for Clark to actually take charge of the immediate, physical situations happening right in front of his face, rather than just standing around like a timid spectator letting the Justice Gang dictate the flow of every single encounter.And speaking of shifting goalposts, your Krypto defense is completely pathetic. I didn't shift anything, you are just ignoring the actual context of the film. Just because Krypto was momentarily unruly in a handful of comic issues decades ago doesn't magically excuse Gunn's specific cinematic portrayal. Gunn gave us a completely different breed that literally belongs to Kara, not Clark, and is violently unruly and disrespectful throughout the entire movie. It isn't a cute, faithful comic nod. It is a structural comedic device used exclusively to humiliate Superman and make him the butt of the joke for cheap, cynical laughs.The film was perfectly content establishing his god-tier speed earlier when it stopped time so Superman could save bystanders one-by-one, and even a literal squirrel, without anyone else getting hurt in between. Gunn gave us an entire montage that felt completely weightless and devoid of urgency establishing how fast he is.But suddenly, when it's time for the climax and Mister Terrific is slowly activating his bombs inside the Kaiju, Superman's feet suddenly turn to iron. He gets planted firmly to the ground, entirely stripped of his established speed, reduced to passively watching and timidly complaining under his breath while the snarky side-character gets the badass kill.The movie establishes his powers when it wants a cute montage, but completely forgets them when it needs to hand the victory to Gunn's pet characters.
>>154472234>What I am asking for is for Clark to actually take charge of the immediate, physical situations happening right in front of his faceHe's doing that. He's taking control of the situation by setting a perimeter, and saving lives. 3 people distracting the creature is enough while he does the job that they can't in that immediate moment, while also getting a few punches in too. Clark is also trusting Mister Terrific to calculate a solution, which is very much in character for Superman and we've seen it countless times before. You are asking Superman to have all the answers when he shouldn't. Your posts are, AGAIN, an illustrate of YOUR personal wants and knocking the film for not doing it. That's the real issue, and we're talking in circles because we're not agreeing with you.
I watched Supergirl and I liked it.
>>154472234>But suddenly, when it's time for the climax and Mister Terrific is slowly activating his bombs inside the Kaiju, Superman's feet suddenly turn to iron. He gets planted firmly to the ground, entirely stripped of his established speed, reduced to passively watching and timidly complaining under his breath while the snarky side-character gets the badass kill.You do realize that Clark isn't omnipresent nor omniscient, right? The T spheres do various things, and he didn't know what Terrific was about to do, only that they flew inside the beast. When the first one went off, it's by complete surprise and thus too late. That's not a plot whole, that's you wanting a contrivance and sucking all tension out of a scene. This wouldn't even fly in Superman comics.
>>154472317You can write all the head-canon you want about him "setting a perimeter" or "saving lives" off-screen to justify his inaction, but let's look at what the camera actually shows us during the climax.At the exact moment Mister Terrific is preparing to kill the Kaiju, Superman is doing absolutely nothing. He is not off rescuing people in the rubble, he is not somewhere else holding back a collapsing building, he is not distracted by crowd control.He is literally right there, standing on the ground, completely unoccupied. He is directly observing Terrific, watching exactly what he is doing with the T-Spheres, and he passively just lets it happen. He has all of his god-tier speed, absolutely nothing keeping him busy in that specific moment, and he just stands there timidly complaining while the corporate hero commits a lethal execution right in front of his face.That isn't him "trusting a teammate to calculate a non-lethal solution." That is the director fundamentally stripping the protagonist of his moral agency and physical capability so the snarky side-character can get the badass, explosive finishing move.We aren't talking in circles because "you disagree with my personal wants." We are talking in circles because you refuse to acknowledge what is physically happening on the screen.
>>154472344It's not bad, but it has its flaws and it has a lot of flaws.
>>154472347He had more time to react than Cavill's Superman did during the Capitol bombing in BvS.
>>154472225>Then do something more productive than being a whiny fanboy on coAnd now you're projecting.
All these dumb retards in the thread arguing the cheap shittier looking costume looks better, because Superman looking like a man child is more soulful. That Syperman should not look cool on screen, and should come off as pathetic looking.
>>154472344>I watched Supergirl and I liked it.Ew
>>154472365This is some high level of autism
>>154472374They're nerds. They don't know what cool is.
>>154472387Thank you, i appreciate the compliment.
>>154472374It does.
>>154472387>This is some high level of autismNot an argument. Try again.
>>154472394It wasn't a compliment, it was an observation.
>>154472360>You can write all the head-canon you want about him "setting a perimeter" or "saving lives"That's not headcanon, that's LITERALLY what's happening in front of you.>He watches Mr TerrificWe covered this already, scroll up and READ.>That isn't him "trusting a teammate to calculate a non-lethal solution." That is the director fundamentally stripping the protagonist of his moral agency Now who's making up headcanon? So Superman doesn't trust people now? Great, glad you understand the character so well.>We aren't talking in circles because "you disagree with my personal wants." We are talking in circles because you refuse to acknowledge what is physically happening on the screen.Pot, meet kettle. Look, we all know you're just going to go on and on and on and on until we just stop responding to you. That's the real argument here.
>>154472397I wasn't arguing, I was making an observation.
>>154472347The camera doesn't lie, anon. That sequence isn't some blink-and-you-miss-it occurrence where a bomb instantly detonates out of nowhere. It is a long, highly deliberate, drawn-out moment where Mister Terrific takes his sweet time preparing to execute the creature, and the movie explicitly cuts back to Clark standing there, completely unoccupied, watching the entire setup unfold. He had more than enough time to use his established speed to take charge of the situation, but the script forces him to just passively spectate.And don't talk to me about "sucking all the tension out of a scene." The tension in this entire climax was already completely eviscerated long before this moment by that painfully weightless Superman rescue montage. When a movie literally halts its own narrative momentum to show Superman stopping to leisurely save bystanders one-by-one, including a literal squirrel, might i add, with absolutely zero sense of urgency or immediate danger happening in between each rescue, it completely destroys the stakes. You can't spend the first half of the sequence establishing that Clark is fast enough to make time stand still for a rodent, and then expect the audience to believe there's genuine suspense when he suddenly develops lead feet while Terrific slowly activates his tech.The entire sequence of events is already fundamentally contrived from top to bottom.
>>154472390You are not a normie anon
>>154460024Snyder hates Superman and the American Way?Wow. Never knew that. I'm never watching anything he makes from now on. Thanks Anon.
>>154472410>We covered this already, scroll up and READ.And you're wrong. He had all the time to react but just stood there and did nothing.
>>154472430You don’t miss that much honestly.
>>154472410>We covered this already, scroll up and READ.See. 8 seconds. There was plenty Superman could have done. Specially in this movie where he's a veteran that never lost a single fight before and got all his OP powers.
>>154472424You don't know anything about me, bro.
>>154472439Why is he wrong tho? You expected him to go inside the kaiju and deactivate the T spheres?
>>154472446You post on 4chan, you are not different than anyone here.
>>154472365People that criticize both these scenes are retarded especially the top one. Superman’s fast but he doesn’t have the fucking speed force. Holy moly.
>>154472454Why not use his superpowers? He could use his X-ray vision to mess with the T-spheres, or use his heat vision, adjusting it to destroy the self-destruct mechanism of the T-spheres inside the Kaiju's belly. Exactly the same we use lasers to operate on patients.That would be the perfect moment to showcase Superman’s powers and intellect in a creative way, while also highlighting his agency to uphold his moral stance and asserting his presence after thwarting the Justice Gang’s push for lethal expediency.
>>154472420>>154472439>>154472445Hobbyless behavior. And it turns out, I was right. Alright gang, baby wants his bottle, the last word is his. It's 1AM here, and I'll let someone else tag in. He's not going to stop, or listen, he's just going to whine endlessly until people stop taking the bait.
The two great tragedies of human history are the burning of the library of alexandria and joss whedon
>>154472497>He could use his X-ray vision to mess with the T-spheres, or use his heat vision, adjusting it to destroy the self-destruct mechanism of the T-spheresSo now you want Clark to be an expert on a device he should have no knowledge of? The anon is right, it's become a broken record of telling you that your personal wants are not plot holes. You're just a fucking idiot. You can't write for shit, anon
>>154472526>So now you want Clark to be an expert on a device he should have no knowledge of?Aren’t Superman and Mister Terrific such good friends that Superman can have a heart-to-heart with Lois even while Solaris is destroying Metropolis, simply because he knows the Justice Gang has it under control?
>Sperg is crashing out because the director didn't take his screenwriter notes, making a boring ass movie where Superman solves literally every problem instantlyBro, this might be Angry Joe. Which by the way Joe got humiliated recently, and I want to point out he's the biggest fucking casual poser of Superman ever
>>154459933Hiring Zack Snyder
>>154472542You didn't answer the question
>>154472547I would be completely satisfied with a movie where Superman simply doesn't come off as a huge, ineffectual "bitch," which, let me remind you, is literally the exact word his own cousin Kara uses to describe him at the very end of the movie.When the movie itself ends by having its supporting cast explicitly vocalize how pathetic the protagonist is, it isn't "casual posers" misunderstanding the film. It is the director explicitly telling you exactly how he views the character. Gunn wanted to make a cynical workplace comedy where the Boy Scout is the eternal, helpless punchline, and he succeeded.>>154472561I think I already did with that picture. Otherwise, it suggests that Superman doesn’t care about the well-being of Metropolis’ citizens. Either he knows them well enough to trust them (which is its own problem, since they’re snaky jerks who kill), or he doesn’t know them and has left his city in the hands of snarky strangers who kill.
>>154472504KekFuck Buffy
>>154470467fitting since they probably can't read like their idol zach the hack
>>154472605>I think I already did with that picture.You didn't. Either answer the question or just admit you're an insufferable faggot, which we all know looking at this thread by the way.Also looking at the other half of your post, you are legit mentally ill. Making up headcanon and taking it a personal slight. Narcissism isn't a good look. The only punchline here is you.
>>154472701It is genuinely hilarious that you immediately resort to diagnosing me as "mentally ill" and throwing out slurs. But since you are apparently incapable of using your imagination and are begging for a literal breakdown of how Superman could have stopped the execution, let's spell it out.In that exact moment, as Mister Terrific was preparing to detonate the T-Spheres, Clark had all the time in the world and a dozen different ways to creatively and non-lethally neutralize the situation:He could have instantly blitzed Terrific before he even thought about detonating it.He could have used his microscopic vision and pinpoint heat vision to fry the internal circuitry or explosive payloads of the T-Spheres through the Kaiju's skin.And the real issue here isn't just that one isolated, contrived moment, it is the entire movie. Throughout the entire runtime, Superman is perpetually on the defensive, constantly needing to be rescued, and always overly emotional rather than commanding.I actually get what James Gunn was trying to do. I understand it was his way to ground the character and make him feel "relatable" and vulnerable. But he completely fumbled the execution by exaggerating it way too far. He pushed it to the point where Superman's earnestness and morality aren't just tested, they are made the fundamental butt of the joke.And the most glaring problem is the direct contrast. Whether Gunn did it purposely or not, the "Justice Gang" characters and Krypto are constantly framed as the exact opposite of Clark. They are shown as hyper-competent, irreverent, effective, and inherently "cool." They get the flashy, stylized action scenes. They are the ones rescuing Superman when he is helpless, they are the ones actually solving the problems driving the plot, and they are the ones who get the triumphant, badass shots of neutralizing the obstacles.
>>154472804>He could have instantly blitzed Terrific before he even thought about detonating it.How does he know he's going to detonate it?>He could have used his microscopic vision and pinpoint heat vision to fry the internal circuitry or explosive payloads of the T-Spheres through the Kaiju's skin.How does he know how to disarm them? Or know how T Spheres are constructed? How does he know that wouldn't also kill the beast, or that it will just set them off anyway?You're not a good writer. You say everything you don't like is a contrivance, yet how is that not a contrivance?
>>154472835You are completely hyperfocusing on the minute logistical details of this one single scene. The issue isn't just this one scene. It is the entire movie.From start to finish, the script treats Superman like a completely passive observer in his own cinematic universe. He doesn't drive the plot, the plot happens to him. He is reduced to a bystander whose maximum level of narrative agency is just standing around and uttering quiet annoyance about his perpetual bad luck while the competent, cynical characters do all the heavy lifting.This is especially glaring with how Gunn handles the dog. Krypto isn't written as a loyal companion or an extension of Clark's compassion. He is written as an out-of-control, violent force of nature that Clark can't even begin to rein in. Superman spends half their scenes together just passively reacting to the dog's chaotic messes, getting battered around, and looking like a helpless owner who has absolutely zero command over his surroundings. Every interaction with Krypto is just another excuse for the script to humiliate Clark and farm cheap laughs at his expense.When your titular hero spends a two-hour movie getting beaten up, pushed aside by his peers, dragged around by a violent dog, and relegated to timidly watching his allies commit executions while he softly complains like a cuckold, that is a fundamental character assassination. Stop getting lost in the weeds of T-Sphere circuitry and look at the actual narrative Gunn put on the screen.
The state of this thread represents the state of DC. Snyder did ruin DC in a way. You just can’t have elaborate comprehensive conversations and opinions anymore. And every DC product is going for some kind of an angle now, instead of being a simply good product. The Batman (the only large scale competent product in recent memory) happening is an absolute miracle.
>>154460011golden age heroes ddidnt wear motorcycle jackets. James Gun puts everyone in thick baggy motorcycle jackets.
>>154472904*faceplants onto concrete*b-b-b-but ITS JUST YEAR TWO
