Sally Acorn was originally intended to marry Shadow the Hedgehog as her endgame love interest. This plan was dropped when Ian Flynn was hired onto Archie. More in Ken Penders's new release "the Shadow Files" Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyfnTVbdzSU
Sonic getting married to anyone was ridiculously out of character in the first place
>>154484814
>>154485124Yes, this is covered in the manuscript. Penders says Ian flynn copied his plot and bastardized it. Shadow and Sally were supposed to have three kids
>>154485124why is the cat newscaster so disgusted by Shadow and Elise marrying? did she want the hedgehog dick?
>>154484814That doesn't make sense since Penders is the one that had Sonic and Sally marry in the future. Twice. And I'm not watching your video.
>>154485292You should check his social media. Penders is saying he never wanted Sonic and Sally together in the first place. There are two possible answers for this>Penders is saving face for Sonic game purists who are mad at the idea of Sonic settling down>Sonic means what he says and wrote Sonic and Sally together for some other reason despite doing the complete opposite in his manuscript
>>154485292Penders also undid their relationship four times and had the timeline delete their marriage. He was actively trying to kill the pairing
>>154485085He'd probably get married when he was old and retired. Which Sega would rather chew their own legs off than ever portray.
>>154485407That's because Yuji Naka said Sonic isn't the kind of guy who would ever get married and in japanese culture mischaracterization is le dishonorable
The guy actually mentions in the video iizuka's comments about how the western comics were completely off base with Sonic's character and stuff like this is why he was comfortable dumping Archie entirely
Sallly canonically lost her virginity to the skunk guy so her standards are low
>>154485370Bollers killed it off the first time and Penders never got to finish his 25 Years Later story because he quit over editorial wanting Shadow in it. And Bollers did the slap. Penders has said in the past that he wanted Sonic and Sally to get back together before he quit. I'd trust past Penders over post firing Penders.
>>154485627It isn't canon, Penders said he wanted to write that but never got to include it remotely in the books run. It's no more canon that Sally and Nicole being lesbian lovers since it wasn't in the book and the writer despite wanting it never got to put it at all in the book.
Looking into this story something seems especially spiteful. In Penders version of the future, Sonic finds Shadow and Sally HAPPILY married while Shadow is "looking more masculine than Sonic ever did in his crown"This is exactly how Penders says it. These are his words. What the fuck? Does he hate Archie's Sonic that much or is he actively attempting to appeal to the people who say Sonic's character was never built for marriage by making Shadow a better partner?
>sally wanted sonic to be more serious>sonic is incapable of character development according to sega mandate>shadow is just sonic but seriousDoesn't seem that weird to me, honestly. Archie Sonic was never aligned with the "vision" of Sonic's character from the games.
>>154485719The only people who haven't bit the bullet on Sonic and marriage are shippers and people who grew up with the Archie continuity.
>>154485680Don't bother responding to him. It's the schizo that says that in every Sonic thread. At this point everyone else ignores him and doesn't reply.
>>154485719Fuck Sega and their vision. There's so many different versions of Sonic that aren't like the one from the games.
>>154484814That's retarded, so I believe Penders came up with it.
>>154485800It's literally in his new book so yeah he's being serious. He's also publishing it for money which is highly fucking illegal
>>154485794i'm sure you already know by now that sega has aggressive mandates up the ass that force every new product to stick to a certain thing specifically due to archie being too off brand right
>>154485830Archie doesn't care. Sega doesn't care. So he's doing whatever he wants.
>>154485786I can't even keep track of Schizo's in Sonic threads anymore, there's like 4 or so I swear on the regular.
>>154485845My brother in Christ. Let me say it again. Fuck Sega. I don't give a fuck about what they do or care. I liked Archie Sonic, Boom Sonic, AOSTH Sonic, etc. None of them are like the game version. Whatever Sega does with their IP now is up to them. I'm not checking out any of that. But there are people that feel the exact opposite as me so fuck them too.
I think the geoffry thing is shitposting but Sally with Archie's version of Shadow isn't that far fetched. He's a responsible dutiful guy who isn't as mean and standoffish as his videogame counterpart. In a world where Sonic isn't around Sally has already dated guys like Monkey Khan.
Save your money. Literally the ONLY significant development in Penders book>Mobius 25 Years later is the canon future>Shadow marries Sally Acorn and has three childrenThat is it. There is nothing else of substance in this fucking book. It's just Penders bragging about how superior he is.
I'm kinda vindicated in thinking Shadally is dogshit if Penders is shilling it.
>>154485936Why is it dogshit?
>>154485936Penders shilling it is the worst thing that can happen. Coming from someone ho likes it. Now it's on par with the damn skunk.
>>154485944nta but every pairing involving sonic or shadow is completely out of character
>>154485944Because it's pretty much a pairing founded on a shallow surface level reading on Sally, Shadow and Sonic in my opinion. Also the fact they don't remotely interact whatsoever in any capacity to me showcases how little there actually is to the idea of them even being aware of one another let alone romantically.
>>154485952There's no worse a fate then an awful writer getting their hands on a character or concept you like
>>154485663>Penders never got to finish his 25 Years Later story because he quit over editorial wanting Shadow in it.That's bullshit. He liked Shadow.
>>154485124This is fake news from the liberal media.
>>154486081You could easily argue that no Archie character has ever interacted with Shadow or Sonic
>>154486081I would vibe with this argument if it wasn't for the fact that the Archie character writing was all over the place even compared to the games. You could say Mina Mongoose should like Shadow and it's hard to argue with since the vision in the comics is hardly like the games
>>154486081I assume that surface level reading is>Shadow is serious>Sally is serious>Sonic (Game Canon) would never be in a romantic relationship
>>154486196I like how that last one has been officially stated do,end of times in the last 20 years and shippers won't accept it
KEKnic the KEKhog
Damn so everyone was fucking Sally
>>154486210Maybe don't have a character who's canonically interested in him as part of the main cast then.
>>154486235Everyone except KEKnic.
>>154486196It is very much canon that Game Sonic doesn't give a flying fuck about romance.>>154486236I actually agree that it was a terrible writing decision to create Amy if they're going to have this be a consistent character beat.
>>154486196>Game CanonThey're just mad that Sonic from the games will never fuck their character of choice. Meanwhile Sonic in Archie smooches on all sorts of women and knocks up Sally and ignores Amy. So they pull a crab bucket and screech about it not being canon to the games.
>>154486236Notice how One Piece fans aren't stupid enough to think Luffy is interested in romance despite there being a character who is in love with him in the cast. This is a Sonic specific problem.
>>154486275Sonic fans kind of struggle to accept that the Sonic from the games is.. a character. He isn't just the basis for all the cartoons and comics. The games are a universe and a setting onto themselves. There are things Sonic would never do. This is obvious since after Archie finished they introduced character mandates that prevent spinoffs from being two different from the games. This isn't a defense of Sega btw because we all know they have made shitty decisions before, it's just a fact.
>>154486279Don't act like every piece of Sonic media up until around 2017 didn't push some kind of genuine "romance" or "shipping." Satam. Archie. Hell, 06 had you choosing between Elise and Amy in one mini-game segment. Even Boom had a "shipping" moment or two between Sonic and Amy in Rise of Lyric.
>>154486290And I'm completely fine with (Game Canon) Sonic being an asexual speed freak that only cares about running and going on adventures. Sonamy shippers will be so happy when the Sonic 4 movie comes out because their ship has a chance of happening.
>>154486297and yet not a single fucking scene in the entire sonic video game series ever suggests that he is interested in romanceevery single interview and comic con that had some autist question the idea was met with the same answer. sonic doesn't want to be tied down with romance, he wants to go beat up eggman and destroy robots. the only way you could think otherwise is if you were busy reading archie and it never crossed your mind that the comics written by entirely different people aren't canonor better yet you're a sonamyfag and just stupid outright
Penders really climbed out of the woodwork to create a book claiming that Sally and Shadow fell in love and sold it
>>154485908>It's just Penders bragging about how superior he is.i.e. what he usually does in social media and any media he "produces".
>>154485936>>154485908Penders becoming the (former) official Sonic creator backing up Shadally was not on my bingo card this year at all.Anyway has the page by any chance?
>>154484814Amazing.
>>154486185Yeah but even by the standards of the all over the place writing, Sally and Shadow have absolutely nothing across the different writers. They have one time they talked and a future where Sally just married him politically to date the populace and then ditched his ass to remarry Sonic and that's not even going into that it was with a version of Shadow that's pretty much got nothing personality wise in common with either the Archie version in the main timeline or especially the game personality. Even in the reboot I can't think of one time Sally even looked at Shadow let alone said anything to or about him.
>>154486279People still ship Luffy with girls in One Piece, they just don't bug Oda about it to my knowledge as someone who only read a bit of Bleach and all of Rurouni Kenshin instead of got into the pirate manga. Also let's not act like every fandom doesn't have shipping derangement, hell Shonen is especially mental for it and Sonic certainly was skewing towards Shonen tonally for a good while plus brought it back with Frontiers.
>>154486474My point isn't really that you're wrong, I just think you could literally just make up a dynamic since they quite literally have not interacted. Just like how people assume Sonic would get along with Goku. The fact that they didn't interact works in its favor since it's the very interactions between Sonic and Sally that cause certain uhm... "fans" to declare Archie Sonic as a fake.
>>154486474>Sally and Shadow have absolutely nothing across the different writersI guess it turns out they would have if Ian was never hired lmao
>>154486474Like the other guy said. Sally wants Sonic to be srs. Shadow is just srs Sonic. Case closed. In fact it kind of works since Sonic hates love or whatever the hell jp purists say
I don't get it. Is this confirming Sally is a latina?
>>154486516Fuck it why not
>>154486474I don't really agree with this argument in a logistic sense. Shipping isn't really based on interactions and a non canon adaptation is already unreliable in that regard. Shippers just go off vibes most of the time. Elsa and Jack Frost is a thing. Half the arguments you could make here are even worse in Sonic's case since he's *explicitly* stated not to be interested in dating
I'm clarifying I'm not pro shadally or whatever I just don't really get how Archie characterization or interactions can ever be used in a shipping argument when they kind of disqualify themselves. For all we know Archie Sally would vibe with Game Charmy or something
>>154486544They quite literally can't. Archie Sonic = /= Game =/ = Movie Sonic. It's why Sonicfags schizo out whenever Sally is talked about. Whether or not Sally and Shadow interacted is irrelevant. All that matters is the idea that they could get along. If Penders would have written them fucking that means his characterization for the two was compatible.
>>154486568I kind of get it. Shadow weirdly doesn't interact much with any of the Archie cast so he has no actual dynamic with them. At the same time Archie Shadow and game Shadow are radically different so you could always make the case that you can just pick and choose one of the characterizations he was given vs Sally's. "They didn't interact" only lasts until they actually do. Which allegedly (Unless Mr. Penders is a liar) would have happened.
This pairing is just Bulmageta innit
>>154486608Only Satam Sally is similar to Bulma. Archie Sally is more like Princess Leia
All of Sally and Sonics interactions completely undermine the idea that they would actually work if she was canon so I'm not surprised people just pair Sally with whoever the fuck else
Shadow's most popular parings are Rouge>canonically not friends with himAmy>Only spoke to him onceSonic>don't even like each otherTikal>have only encountered in a roblox game where she reminds him of his own sisteryeah this is just par for the course with him
>>154486568"They didn't interact" argument doesn't really work when the only reason they didn't interact is because a fan who grew up with the comic took the reigns before Penders could apply his ideas
>>154484814ANYTHING that keeps her off of Sonic is good. Jesus Christ Archie is a fucking nightmare to read if you actually played shit like SA2 with the real fucking Sonic in it
Sonic comics never stop being weird
>>154484814If I understand right Ian Flynn was the only Archie writer who actually wanted Sonic and Sally to end up together. Penders and Bollers both had different endgame in mind. Penders is suddenly claiming Shadally timeline and Ian Flynn changed his mind to make Sally a lesbian for some reason.
>>154486279>Notice how One Piece fans aren't stupid enough to think Luffy is interested in romanceI think he's letting his talents go to waste, if ya know what I mean. Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more guvna, say no more.
>>154486833you are funny
>>154486670>where she reminds him of his own sisterSister that he wants to fuck, mind you.
>>154486899Get your head out of the gutter
>>154486954Hey, don't blame me. Blame his creator, Jeff Fowler and Stephen Colbert (among many others)
>believing anything Penders says, ever
>>154486968The real question is why is Penders saying this
>You're Mike Pellerito reading Penders' script for that future timeline he really, really wants to be canon where Sonic is cucked and emasculated by Shadow.>"Ken, we can't make this into a comic, man.">Penders: "WHY NOT?! THIS IS WHAT THE FANS WANT!"
>>154486972He must have lurked a /sthg/ thread at the precise moment and unironically thought the Sonic Fandom, in general, loves Shadally
>>154486981Is that why he dedicated the entire drawn section to Hope fucking Kintobor's backstory nobody cares about
>>154486532>>154486501Honestly that's absolutely correct and a completely sound perspective since I've got my own bullshit pairings based of off my personal taste with no actual evidence and admittedly I'm just getting out why I personally don't like Shadally despite it's popularity from someone who only likes Sally paired with two characters at most. Admittedly it's a bit hypocritical but topic came up and I just don't think it'd be a particularly interesting dynamic or pairing despite getting the general appeal and how the idea formed.
>Caring about PendersI'm not trans soooooo
>>154487061I think I understand. I'm not exactly Shadally's defender or anything but that's how I imagine it for most ships. There's a lot of people who are big on Edd and Marie even though as we really see them he is interested in Naz and she doesn't really seem to care about his person so much as *want* him. But it's his most popular ship and most of the fan content of it is really speculating what their dynamic *would be* if they grew up and weren't characters in a comedy series. I think by the same logic you also have every decent reason not to like it. I just don't think shipping can really be "mathed". Either we like them or we don't. If I got told my favorite ship broke the official canon parameters I wouldn't change my mind. Or if I learned my least favorite ship was 100% the creator's favorite idea (Batgirl and Batman)
>>154487098Oh shipping absolutely can't be mathed or quantified in any objectivity even in regards to official relationships since there's absolutely awful canon pairings that get mogged by fan preferred ones, pairings that are good in some versions but terrible in others, pairings that are good because of how much they don't work and the list goes on. I say this as a shipper myself that shippers are the most absolutely myopic, hypocritical and even at their most pleasant delusional creatures that let emotion or logic dictate their will based on what suits their agenda most. Even the most self aware shipper will contradict themselves on why they like a pairing but don't like another wether it's accidental cause one pairing is better executed then another or they just like certain characters better together. But still it's a lot of fun to talk about and I think how seriously people take it or don't take it can be funny.
>>154486838Whaaaat? I'm just sayin', a guy with a stretchy body would be very popular with the ladies if he stretches a particular body part. *spins bowtie*
>>154487199there is honestly not much more annoying than when a terrible ship is canon and the writer is fixated on it
>>154486516Immediately better plotline than anything this man is going to come up with. And probably better than any other way to use Sally too.
>>154487063Hating on Penders is exactly what troons would do.
>>154486826It's important to understand that Flynn's secret is media training. I don't know how he got it, but he lies like a dog and he does it with a smile.
creating a future where sally pumps out three babies from shadow just seems like penders intentionally creating a story line to shit on the archie continuity and validate those who already hate it for deviating from sonic's canon personality
>>154487304That's especially the case when it comes to comics, video games and especially long running narratives. The worst is when a bad relationship essentially parastically fuses the characters so if you like one character but don't like the other then tough shit since the character you like can't do anything without the presence of the other or when it just drags all the story to a halt and siphons focus from anything that would actually be interesting in the story. Sometimes you just feel how bad a relationship in a story is executed or just is conceptually and it just bogs everything down. Honestly probably why smart of Sega to just full on ban romance to not deal with the baggage but it doesn't stop the writers in the comics giving table scraps for the readers that they won't commit to.
>>154487199Digimon shipper here. Yes.
>>154487349>Trunks and Mai having the most screentime of any romantic pairing in all of Dragon Ball with almost 7 years of "development"
>>154487372The age stuff around that relationship is so funny but it gets even funnier when you think Trunks could go back in time and date her when she was older/naturally his age but then has to breakup with her when she gets younger and then gets a crush on him when he's about the same age biologically but not chronologically as her with his past version despite the fact she's actually a woman in her 50's.
>>154485370How heroic of him. But seriously, Sonally was probably the most schizo ship in terms of how it's portrayed
>>154487349there's times where you can feel the creator ruining a story because they like a pairing
So Ken is literally selling a Shadally fanfic He is literally trying to SELL a Shadally fanfic
>>154485186>why is the cat newscaster so disgusted by Shadow and Elise marrying?She's one of the kids Rosie takes care of in the main timeline, so presumably, this version would've also grown up knowing Sonic and Sally personally, and thus, knows how left field that pairing with Shadow is.
>>154484814>Penders says something retarded to get attentionAnd this warranted a thread?
>>154486972The same reason why The Shadow Files even exists: he caught a whiff of how popular Shadow is and is trying to cash in.
>>154486670You're forgetting Maria.
>>154487815Fuck off weirdo
>>154486899>Sister that he wants to fuckCan we honestly blame him?
>>154487815MUH RIA
>>154484814>AmyShadow's wife>SallyShadow's wife>BlazeShadow's wife>VanillaShadow's wife>BunnieShadow's wife>MinaShadow's wife>TikalShadow's wife>ShadeShadow's wife>SoniaShadow's wife>SticksShadow's wife>EliseShadow's wife>MariaShe's dead>HopeShadow's wife>Chris' momShadow's wife>SaraShadow's wife>RougeIizuka said they are not friends>NicoleShadow's wife
>>154488010
Penders > Flynn
>>154486826Sally only became a lesbo when any serious romance involving Sonic was disallowed in the Archie reboot. He was heavily pushing Sally and Sonic together preboot. Nicole is just his sour grapes.
>>154487327There’s literally an entire troon tumblr blog dedicated to hating Penders and white knighting Ian and Evan if you didn’t know.
>>154487916I'm just saying, she's one of his most pairings.
>ken makes a bunch of shit up, desperate for attentionHe posted his plans over a decade ago.
>>154485350tbf from the second he got his hands on Knuckles, Ken started writing Sonic as a lame cuck.
>>154485830>He's also publishing it for money which is highly fucking illegalSonic fans have entire conventions dedicated to selling bootleg merchandise and IDW artists are in on it too
>>154486670The thing the marketing tries to do where they set Rouge and Blaze up as Shadow and Silver's Amy analog is weird and I hate it.
>>154486826He liked Sonic x Sally back when it was a popular part of the fandom and wanted to rehabilitate Sally as a character. The second it was clear they could never make good on it in the comics again, he changed course. And then he got stuck on trying to "fix" Sonic and Amy since he felt it would placate fans.Real truth is he does not give a single fuck about who's smooching who and only ever acts based on what he thinks would go over best. Hence why he started pushing Tangle x Whisper. His need to pander to the fans is his biggest weakness as a writer.>>154487328Surprised more freelance artists and writers aren't better at this. You want work, you act like Company Man. Only thing he was bad at was not biting the hand and stomping out parasocial relationships. He's better at both now.
>>154486975Mike was the one crowbarring Shadow into every issue.
>>154488785Flynn is clearly a SatAMfag so I think his love for Sonally is genuine.
>>154488099Debatable.
>>154488826He's an Archiefag, he only watched the show after getting into the comics.
>>154488099No.>>154489313Not even remotely. Ian's written good and bad alike. Ken's never written an interesting story in his life.
>>154489407>Ken's never written an interesting story in his life.Legends say his Star Trek stuff wasn't half-bad, but given I have never read I can't confirm. Otherwise I agree that Penders is worse than Flynn (though I still consider the latter bad).
Poor Shadow.
>>154489542i know you're a blazefag, boco. what if shadow married blaze?
>>154489744That’d be a boring marriage. Just cold silence with the occasional nod at each other.
>>154489407>his gag-era stories>Endgame>the original Enerjak story in the Knuckles miniseries>that super edgy origin story to the great war where Kodos fucking murders two childrenPenders’s has written loads of fun stuff
>>154489776>his gag-era storiesWorse than Gallagher and DeCesare's by a wide margin, and all co-written (actually written) by Kanterovich>EndgameAbsolute dogshit, and he was, again, co-writer on most of it because he couldn't get his details straight.>the original Enerjak story in the Knuckles miniseriesFucking abysmal. A do-nothing lead-in across several issues followed by a bunch of doing fuck all until Locke solves Knuckles' problem for him. Enerjak is cool conceptually but his stories are ass.>that super edgy origin story to the great war where Kodos fucking murders two childrenI mean I laughed at it when I wasn't supposed to, so I guess you got me there.
>>154489542His one true love has been dead for half a century.
>>154486304Hopefully the Japanese Sega sees people happy with the reception and will tell SoA to stop autistically and cutting out every single mention of Amy liking Sonic in their cards and bio.
>>154490007She was his sister.
>>154490080Out of ten!
>>154490080And what a sister!
>>154484814>Ken Penders's new release "the Shadow Files"lol pathetic lmao
>>154488164The real win is fucking them both
So Penders would have fixed the biggest thing separating Archie from the games
>>154490497wish she was my sister
>>154490231Back to >>>/v/
Ken Penders is 10/10 at giving ammo to people who hate the Archie comics
>>154487571I blame that on them thinking we wanted relationship drama.
>>154492551It's funny how Archie romance stuff was so out of character that people who actually like Sonic are against him having a wife
>>154492569He was literally stated to never want one a dozen times over. The only people who want Sonic to get laid are self inserters
>>154491984You mean /sthg/ on >>>/vg/.
SEGA HIRE THIS MAN:https://www.deviantart.com/tale-dude/gallery/56875445/fanmade-sonic-skyline-comichttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1zmcEuocbSMAPH0Cdu0neR7qOYrOad6dB_PXEnPRM24Y/edit?tab=t.0
>>154488695Blaze only gets that because of ONE fucking game that, despite being erased from the timeline AND being dog shit in general, Sega just loves hinting at the two having chemistry. She's with him in Colors DS and they have moments in the IDW comics. Calling it now, if we EVER get a game in the Sol Dimension again, Silver is gonna be there.
>>154488785>Hence why he started pushing Tangle x WhisperAnd even there he can't win because Sega will never let a FxF relationship flourish, especially not with how politically heated people are now days.And on Sega's demand, either Whisper or Tangle will want be with a guy, but then doing that will lead to cries of "LGBT erasure" and what not.
>>154484814NO! It is I who marries Sally!
>>154492733Whisper a cute
>>154492602>Bro shills his own AI-genned Sonic fanfic in this thread and the off-model thread >>154492763You're becoming as pathetic and annoying as Ninja Craig poster, Wubba Wubba Dub Dub Fox anon, and Matpat combined.
>>154486279no, OP fans are still stupid enough to argue which girl is gonna win the Luffybowl even though there's a character that's canonically madly in love with him
>>154492887Shut up, Bhutanese anon. Bhutan isn't even a real country.
>>154493099You also posted that image in the off-model thread. >>154493067
This is more surprising for Shadow than Sally
>>154484814>>154485681>>154485884>>154485908>Shadow is more a bull than Sonic confirmed
>Sonic can't do this!>Sonic shouldn't do that!>Sonic should be like THIS!>No Sonic needs THAT direction!Christ, what is it with Sonic Fans being against each other. Multiple games, comics, animated stuff and movies and all this bitching.
>>154493198People said she turned lesbian. But wouldn't she have turned bi? She loves kissing guys. She's such a slut that it almost seems canon that she's poly.
>>154493245>Christ, what is it with Sonic Fans being against each other. Multiple games, comics, animated stuff and movies and all this bitching.Anon I don't know why you're arguing AGAINST consistent characterizationIt isn't even a problem in Sonic's case. His personality in the games is largely the same from Sonic Adventure 2 now except he just tells more jokes in recent games. Though yes in the case of romance we were literally told for 20 years straights by the game developers themselves Sonic in particular isn't interested in romance. Of all the things that one is set in stone. That is a big proponent of the super genesis wave in the end.
>>154493207Jesus Christ you are insane
>>154493274I'm all for constant characterization and good material but it sometimes comes off as "how dare you like THIS version of Sonic instead of this one!!"
>>154493245>write dogshit archie comics of Sonic the Hedgehog cuckolding and humiliating other Sega characters for years>“why are you being so le hateful it’s all good actually you can’t be against this you can’t have standards”Sonic doesn’t get nearly enough bitching. If your entire fanbase didn’t reel against any criticism maybe you would actually improve oneday instead of always getting worse.
>>154493245I never understood this argument. Yes different canon versions of a character don't have to have the same personality but what's the point of using a character if you have to remove their entire personality. Even Iizuka was saying Archie Sonic isn't Sonic
>>154492638>Silver in Blaze's dimensionCareful, you might actually give Silver something to do.
>>154493245Sega literally got pissed off reading the comic and demanded they throw away every characterization difference from the games so it's only natural that the fans who grew up with the games have a superiority complex about it. I'm not saying it's fair but that's literally just how it's going to play out over time
>>154492602The Skyline one was obviously made by a Spyro, Klonoa and Mariofren.And the Prime Arena one was obviously made by a Megaman fan.I love how other communities handle Sonic better than the biggest die-hard Sonicfag imaginable because Sonicfags are just that incompetent just like their parent company, SEGA. Guy went as far as including Freedom Planet in his design bible, I swear it must be a woman. She loves promoting the girls as Chads far too much.
>>154486670Shadow's a lucky guy
>>154487930>Cursed artist that does nothing but ntrKys
>>154493274>arguing AGAINST consistent characterization>characterizationlmao JP Sonic is barely there as a character.he does what he wants, has no connections, shows no strong emotions and never sticks around.that's not a character, that's a plot convenience.
>>154493207 Sonic: Hey Sal, where's faker? I wanna race him!Sally: He's somewhere close, I-I'll let you know Sonic!
>>154493572I mean sure but in the end of the day... that's still the character. The fact that you can describe that. That means if Sonic doesn't fit this description, he has broken character. The people who call Sonic their favorite character will be dismissive when you veer away from this, which is why the games don't. I'm not calling it good writing or anything, Sonic's definitely not MY favorite character but in the end of the day you can look at a behavior and say "Sonic doesn't do this. He's a platformer mascot who wants to have fun and eat hot dogs.
>>154484814>Its Ken PendersBig surprise
>>154484814Why don't the males wear clothes?
Ken Penders was the guy who did the groundwork for all the stories Ian wrote
>>154493671glad you admit it's a boring, simple character. that's why veering away from it whenever possible is an improvement.
>>154493739I'm of two minds here. On principle, I agreeOn the other hand, the main reason why the late side of Archie fell apart and most of the plot lines don't have a satisfying conclusion is directly because of Sega not being happy with the character writing. Sonic and Sally's development, Charmy's entire character, Knuckles's people, Tails's family. All doomedYou'll notice in the last few issues of preboot Tails stops referring to his parents entirely because Sega! Tails is an orphan. Things like that are just bad. Then when the reboot rolls around none of the characters are bothered by the fact that an extinction event killed their entire families for the period when they remember them. This would have been avoided if they stuck to a character bible of some sort. Sega being tolerant of the deviations was not a realistic option when Naka literally went on television to say he was livid at what Americans were doing with Sonic's character.
>>154493671And this is why you don't let the most pajeet tier of pajeet fandoms in charge of Sonic.>Uoohhhh Sonic is meant to be shit and eat shit and smother himself in shit just like a real hedgehog! it's canon! Don't touch my sacred cow, beta! Don't touch the sacred blue cow that smears itself in shit ! Go to India already you blue rats. Even the other furry fandoms are laughing at you, let alone the scalies.
>Ken Pender faps to Pic related
>>154493876Well it's too late now. Sega of Japan weren't exactly quiet on their opinions of how Archie Sonic handled things so fans are emboldened to shit on it. IDW on the other hand is endorsed by Sega so while fans argue about it they will always be able to say it fits the parameters
>>154493868>He actually fell for Ian Flynn's lies.Retard. Go ask Jeff Fowler and he'll tell you blatantly no. Sonicfags really are children you can lie to and dangle a bunch of keys while promoting hypocirital non-moral non-life lessons about what Sonic is supposed to be. He's a literal Blue the Felix the cat ripoff with Dr Eggman stolen from Dr Wily. The industrial levels fit Megaman to a tee.
>>154493868>Sega not being happy with the character writing.and when you take a look at what SEGA has done with the character since then, it doesn't seem like they're the best judges of what does and doesn't work.Sonic's entire life story has been SEGA not knowing what to do with him.>Nakai definitely, definitely, DEFINITELY wouldn't listen to a word that hack felon has to say about Sonic.
>>154493924This is the first I'm hearing that Flynn is a liar. Please explain.
>>154493931>I wouldn't listen to what Sonic's DAD got to say about Sonic
>>154493931I agree with you, but my point isn't that it's good. My point is that's just how Sega rolls. We all know Sega is capable of retarded decisions but that's just how it is. Also Naka might be a piece of shit but it's still dishonorable in Japanese culture to break the intention of a character. That's why everyone just rolls over and let Akira Toriyama make Goku worse
>>154493963Naoto Oshima is Sonic's dad.
>>154494004His other dad who went with Naka's word>Sonic is not into romance>Sonic's dad>Sonic is not into romance>Sonic's other dad
Rouge the Bat: I'm not jealous of that spoiled Nerd princess....maybe a little bit.
>>154493974Naka just coded the physics. he didn't design Sonic or write the story or scenario. from the beginning, Sonic was designed by committee. it's not like Mario where it was just two guys bouncing ideas off each other.SEGA gave Naka way too much clout.Naka was just a programmer who knew a few tricks in the late '80s and early '90s. by the mid '90s, his shit was obsolete.
>>154494036lol
>>154494046>naka was just the programmer who made everything appealing about sonicyes. he was Sonic's DAD
>>154494036also, reminder that Naka likes SatAM.
Somebody please find the answer from SEGA for this anon >>154493942 where Ian Flynn said a bunch of false shit and SonicTeam blatantly said no they aren't true. SEGA of Japan and America never micromanaged Archie & IDW to the level Flynn is lying about. Flynn is a lying conniving piece of shit that blames it on "company won't let me write good" rather than him having biased writing opinions on how to write incompetently.
>>154494078no, he was the sloped platforms' dad.>>154494082i meant Oshima*
>>154494096>Made the classic trilogy.>Made the adventure era games with Iizuka. SA and SA2 had Naka on board>Sonic has been shit since Naka leftSonic's D.A.D
>>154493924>Paramount and IDW are given the same guidelinesYeah?
>>154494084Ian wasn't the one that said Sonic doesn't do romance. Naka, Oshima, Iizuka, and that guy who made Silver did. That particular detail is from Sega, not Flynn.
>>154494082Oshima isn't a Sonic fan, he's Sonic's creator. He will say Sonic doesn't do XYZ but he isn't going to have a melty over Sonic cartoons breaking character. Naka is a bit of a sperg though
>>154494125>Best classic game is CD, which was helmed by Oshima>Probably sat back and did fuck all while Adventure was being made.>SA2 was Sonic Team USA, Naka was not involved. He was "busy" with PSO, which he later had the brilliant idea to turn into a fucking card battler.>Sonic has been shit since 2003, before Naka even left.H. A. C. K. F. R. A. U. D.
>>154493572Beats being a cuck like Archie Sonic.
>>154493572This is pretty consistent for Sally Acorn to fuck other men she's been doing that with or without penders In Satam it was GriffIn early Archie it was the stupid Skunkin late Archie it was Monkey KhanIn the reboot it was (allegedly) NicoleSally was literally never loyal in the entire permeation of her character
>>154494182>Best classic game is CD, which was helmed by Oshimastopped reading.
when people say "Sonic doesn't do romance" they are literally talking about a fact that is verified they aren't just seething about your shitty comic lol
>>154494084I would be interested to hear it, honestly. I just go by his word on when he's asked about why some things can't happen on Bumblekast
>>154494219if you're strong, you can fly
>>154494262He stopped answering Sonic related questions there.
>Naka says Sonic doesn't like romance in 2002>Archie does it anyways>Sonic's development papers show him not enjoying being flirted with>Sonic X clearly shows Sonic hates being kissed and he literally says it in english words in the fucking show>Sonic literally shoots down all flirting that comes his way in everything Sonic Team produces >Iizuka says 90s western Sonic "is a completely different character" and the only major difference is romance >Oshima says Sonic would never date anyone male or female >Evan Stanley says Sonic has no interest in relationships but "Secretly likes Amy">Ian says Sega "forced his hand" and demanded that Sonic has no relationships >IDW and Prime Sonic show immediate annoyance at the idea of being flirted with even though Amy doesn't do it anymore >Iizuka literally has romance stripped from Archie Sonic are we still arguing about this lol
>>154494308With all these factors I think Archie was testing their luck. Maybe they would be still going if they just adapted the video games instead of creating a weird teen romance / echidna cultural fanfic
>>154494216The town bicycle! Everyone's had a ride!
>>154494542>Son doesn't really want the crown >Daughter is a slut>Can't fuck wife>Gets bamboozled every time>Kingdom been blasted to hell & backKing Max is suffering
>>154494368Archie being weird is why Sonic survived the mid '90s, when Naka tried to kill and replace him.
>>154494368Archie Sonic was based on two versions of the character that FUCK, so him being a romancehog was par the course, especially with a publisher like Archie. Teen romance is sorta their bread and butter.
>>154494640Every bit of this is made up.
>>154494726lmaotell us all about your favorite Saturn Sonic game
>>154494740What is your point here, dude? Archie was niche and barely advertised. Sonic was carried by his games and shows.
>>154494726NiGHTS was intended to replace Sonic. Everyone just came crawling back to big blue once the gay clown game bombed.
>>154493507>Whoa, looks like Shadow's about to get his balls drained! I hate being a seventh wheel! Unlike the Seven Rings in Hand!
>>154494762I'm confident this is not true in the slightest.
>>154488070She's talking about Keanu, and yes its a common opinion
>>154494757>Sonic was carried by his games and shows.and i ask again, what was your favorite Sonic game and show from 1995 to 1999?
>>154494930Sonic 3D Blast unironically and AoStH (timeless). Sonic Adventure also came out in 1999 worldwide. What is this, some kind of interrogation?
the hgihest selling sonic comics only sold a fraction of what the worst sonic games sell in japan. there was no point in sonic history where the comics made a profit for sega. the comic holders pay sega to use the license, that is how the money is made.
>>154494640Trvke. SEGA was completely willing to close the shutters on Sonic, but the fandom and hardcore archie audience kept him around. Without Archie, there's nobody around to make the Sonic movie or redesign his model to look appealing, and thus Sonic dies with Forces.
>>154485878>I liked Archie Sonic, Boom Sonic, AOSTH Sonic,ArchieSonic is the writing equivalent of algoriyth doomscroll retention slop in comic form. Nothing in it is actually good writing or compelling or thoughtful. Its just shock shlock and bait to keep you waiting for the next issue via discourse and comic fandom team sports shit rather than the comic being enjoyable itself.Boom is and was disposable content.AoStH is actually pretty decent though.
i don't know why we're acting like a sonic who's girlfriend was making out with 10 guys is somehow cool just because he also wants the whore
>>154486670
>>154486250>I actually agree that it was a terrible writing decision to create Amy if they're going to have this be a consistent character beat.Why? It makes sense you would have a character to showcase the trait.
Why are archie fans pretending the comic ever sold more than 3000 issues a copy This isn't even a believable lie
>>154495113Archie Sonic fans kind of had this headcanon version of the comic in their mind where Sonic was the cool jock fucking a stacy when he was just a simp who's girlfriend was straight up making out with men in FRONT OF HIM
>>154495119>Dougefag still pushing this shit on this board insteadLOL way to take shit out of context
You guys really need to be less obsessed with cuckoldry as it's pretty sad and pathetic
>lying on the internetThe comic averaged 6k-10k, which is relatively fine for a comic boo about a video game series. You aren't breaking 10k unless you're marvel/dc
>>154495217Is it really cuckoldry when Sonic doesn't give a shit about having a date
>>154495223So several orders of magnitude less relevant than even the worst selling Sonic games? Great to know that objectively more people played Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric than ever read a single Archie comic.
>>154494986>Sonic 3D Blast unironicallyoof>AoStHso a show that stopped airing new episodes in 1993>Sonic Adventureand a game that came out Q4 '99
>>154495113>>154484814You faggots, this is the true ship
>>154495243The video game industry is roughly 20-30x larger than the comic book industry, per revenue.Of course the games sell better.
>>154487363Tails and Sora never showed any chemistry. Them being the most prominent guy and girl doesnt mean they were set to bang.
as someone who likes this pairing this is awful news. shadow with sally shouldn't be lovey dovey and cute. it should be dark and gloomy or uncomfortable. this isn't shadow or sally, it's just penders cucking archie sonic
>>154495275>it's just penders cucking archie sonicYABA DABA DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
why are Archie haters pretending like the comic doesn't hold a Guinness world record?
>>154495119>Knucklesbros....
>>154495273>Tails and SoraI hope not considering they have the same voice actor
>>154495267And if you want numbers:>video game industry revenue in 2005$10 billion>comic book industry revenue in 2005$220 millionSo it's actually around 45x larger.
>>154495261>Facts are facts loser
>>154488695They don't do this though. Only fans do.
>>154495297kek. canon.
>>154495296I don't care much for Archie or hate it but it is interesting just how much that comic pisses off gamefags There's hours long youtube autistic rants where they just seethe that the sanctity of Sonic's character has been disparraged.
>Cuck this cuck thatSonic doesn't care about romance. If Sally Acorn fucked a million guys it wouldn't mean anything to him. Why is this a talking point?
>>154495349Archie Sonic fans will literally never swallow this pill even though it's not even a subtle thing it's a heavy handed confirmation we've heard a million times
>>154495275It isn't Shadow, but it definitely is Sally.
>>154495133If the comic sold poorly it wouldn’t have lasted so long. It was literally Archie’s most popular comic.
>>154495413The comic sold well. But claiming it carried the franchise is an obvious fucking lie. I can believe the movies carried the franchise but even Sonic X wasn't profitable enough to stay on the air.
>>154495296Because that world record is basically a "Move the goalposts until you win" record.
>>154495275For some reason everyone forgets that Archie Shadow was always just a weird serious boy. He wasn't the grimdark edgelord from the games.
>>154495443>but even Sonic X wasn't profitable enough to stay on the air.Where? In Japan? Cause Sonic X aired in America continuously on network television until the literal death of Saturday morning cartoons. We're talking a decade straight.
>>154495275The saddest thing about this is that nobody is able to argue Sally wouldn't do this. Because she fucking would. If anything the fact that she waited a decade for Sonic is inconsistent with how she actually behaved for the entire Preboot run.
>>154495456Archie Shadow once threatened to kill Eggman.
>>154495468Yes. Sonic X Season 3 aired in america before airing in Japan where it was only released on DVDs for years before airing in the late 2010s. Sonic X didn't air in Japan until after Sonic Boom did
>>154493572I dont get how not having these things makes you not a character.
>>154495478And so did SataM Sonic in the episode Secret Scrolls.Like I said, not even close. Game Sonic literally threatens to kill his opponents outright in Forces. Archie Shadow is completely tame. Killing ARCHIE Eggman is downright morally heavenly.
>>154495487I wouldn't say that's a sign of a lack of success, though. Sonic has always struggled in Japan. It makes up by having consistent success elsewhere.
>>154495499Archie Sonic fans hate game Sonic since he can't be used for self insert sex fantasies
>>154493739What makes it boring?
>>154495541Sonic is the most boring character in the games. He's just Goku if he was somehow even less interested in commitment. We can understand that Archie Sonic was out of character while also pointing out that game Sonic is just not that interesting. Ask anyone who loves Sonic games and they won't tell you their favorite character is Sonic
>The official comic of ChristmasWhy does Archie's website look and act like an early stage dementia patient?
>>154493931>doesn't seem like they're the best judges of what does and doesn't work.>Sonic's entire life story has been SEGA not knowing what to do with him.Literally not true. All the inconsistency perceptions of the brand in this respect has been because of the brand confusion due to the multiple interpretations.
>>154494046>disinformationWhy do westcucks keep lying about this? Naka and Oshima discussed ar length about the concept of Sonic as ancharacter and his world and the stories and gameplay
listening to archie sonic fans describe sonic is like listening to people describe light yagami by using the netflix adaptation
>>154495372Shadow: You know what blue faker, good point!
>>154494046>from the beginning, Sonic was designed by committeeSoA propaganda they spread because SoA was in competition with SoJ
>>154494046This is false. Oshima left the franchise in 1999. Naka was in charge of all of the story heavy Sonic games. Literally every single one from 2001 to 2006. When he was asked if he was in charge of the character consistency he said yes before laughing and then insulting Sonic Underground for misunderstanding Sonic. No, that is not a joke.
>>154494269The original "hype moments and aura" Sonic game except its carried by association with the OVA.
>>154494046Naka was involved in the writing of the Sonic games as soon as Sonic started actually talking. Oshima wasn't present for any game with an actual story except Sonic Adventure https://segaretro.org/Interview:_Yuji_Naka_(2005-09-30)_by_GameSpyThe myth that Naka wasn't involved in Sonic's characterization only really applies to the very first game and the non canon manga
Funny how burgers think their comic that only five burgers themselves have read has any weight with the franchise as a whole.To this day, there are still people finding out Sonic comics are a thing that exists, and still nobody cares about them.
>>154494308>and the only major difference is romanceYou're an idiot if you think this.American Sonic is a highschool jock douchebag or a dated poochie depending on the era.Boom Sonic is Blue Ratchet.Sonic in Japan is an aloof drifter
>>154495670Go ahead and tell me what the difference between Satam Sonic and SA2 Sonic except for romance
>>154494640The outlandish shit you people will jist make up lmao.
Archie fans have to be the most delusional side of the already delusional fandom
>>154494663AoStH Sonic did it for gags rather than serious shipping or romance arcs. Archie jist did it because its Archoe Comics crutch in general for viewer retention.
In a few years Penders will reveal Sally also fucked Tails
>>154495778You wish pedo
>implying we need Penders to tell us what we already know
>>154495817You think Ken Penders wouldn't say this?
You guys act like Sally is some kind of prize to begin with.
>>154495834To be fair, Sonic (the franchise) fags do that with any female character anyway
>>154495826That's like a big sister and little brother relationship you sick fuck
>>154495834For anyone who actually likes Sonic games they would be cheering that she wasn't intended to end up with the blue blur and he is free to go on adventures instead of being a shitty king self insert
>>154494175A bit is putting it lightly >>154494061
>>154495834She fucked you, Boco, so we already know she isn't.
>>154495855Good point.
>>154495861>Saving Sonics limp dick ass from getting humiliated by her new baby daddyHow nice of her
>>154495302Autocorrect changed Tai to Tails.
>>154495896Ew, don't even joke about that.
>>154495918The fact that penders wrote that issue while (allegedly) planning them to be together is actually insane. He was basically sabotaging Sally and Sonic's entire dynamic (if he isn't fucking lying)
>>154495335Links? I could use some of that shit atm desu.
>>154495939Just look up Randomfox. You will find literal weeks of content of a Sonic game purist just seething at all Sonic alternate material for not "understanding the inner nuances of Sonic"
>>154495443X wasnt a profitability thing. It wasnt intended to go longer than it did. The fact it went a third season was actually because it was so popular that the US and France commissioned more of the show.
>>154484814It was weird that the nicest version of Shadow somehow went evil. I guess it was because Ian wanted to shut down this
>>154495557>#>Sonic is the most boring character in the games.Like a lot of misconceptions with Sonic, its legit not true. Its just people projecting shit onto him like seeing him as the "Mario" of the series.>He's just Goku if he was somehow even less interested in commitment.See this is my point. No Sonic isn't Goku. Not even kind of. Goku is a country bumpkin who was raised in the woods who likes material arts and fighting strong guys.Sonic in the games is the coolest guy ever. A free spirited adventurer rebel hero who values freedom and believes in living life to the fullest in the time.he has.He's street smart, impertinant, irreverent and all around a great guy with a heart of gold.But brainlet westpids watch internet parodies where his superform is used like Supersaiyan and go "lol guess he is Goku".>We can understand that Archie Sonic was out of character while also pointing out that game Sonic is just not that interesting.My problem with Archie Sonic isn't ven that he is OoC. I mean, I hate that too, but AoStH and Underground Sonic are also OoC but I enjoy those versions of the character.My problem with Archiefags and ArchieSonic is that the character is all around straight up dogshit in every conceivable way as a character and doesnt even work as an "interpretation" of the character.You can tell that while westernized and OoC, things like AoStH or Underground Sonic were still trying to adapt the character.Archie Sonic is not even that. And on top of that his character is just straight up dogshit.I can be sympathetic to AoStHfags for example when they say they liked that version.ArchieFags meanwhile ate obsessed with convincing tou that their dogshit "character" is not only good, but better than the game version when they clearly not only do not actually understand who the game version is, but clearly have dogshit taste and shouldnt be taking seriously when analyzing media.(cont)
>>154495499>I don't get why barely being a character makes you not a character
>>154496098>I guess it was because Ian wanted to shut this down>Like Ian gives a shit about Shadow compared to his precious Eggman and Knuckles.
>>154495557>>154496172(cont)And its obviously true because Archiefags when talking about how Archie is better never actually talk about ArchieSonic AS A CHARACTER.All you fucking pasting eating college douchebags ever do is shit on the game version while insisting the things they made Archie do that the game version doesnt makes it inherently superior via defacto, without wver actually establishing why it is a good character.>Ask anyone who loves Sonic games and they won't tell you their favorite character is SonicSonic is literally the most popular character.You are legit making shit up based on the "lol he is Mario" superimposition again.Thanks for proving my point.
>>154496175thats what i said
>>154495572>due to the multiple interpretations.you mean like the game that was edgy and had guns, and the games that were based on fairtales, and the kart racer, and the slower-paced platformer, and the action game, and the other kart racer, and the open world game?
>>154495603NAKA DA GAWD
>>154495598literally not, which is why you get people coming out of the woodwork saying things like>I'm the reason Sonic's shoes are red!or>We're the ones who named Tails!Oshima took his sketches to Central Park and asked passersby who their favorite was, ffs. that's how we got Mr. Needlemouse.
>>154495874Easy buddy, we already said we were buying.
>>154496191
>>154496175The Shadow stories were always so fun, he's the perfect straightman/grump compared to the other silly characters. I miss Sonic Universe...
>>154495657>only really applies to the very first gameEven this isn't true. The entire reason Sonic is even fast or a hedgehog is because of Naka.
for all the chaos in this thread I really don't have a hard time believing sally would let Shadow fuck her.The hard thing to believe is Shadow being interested in romance. If anything he should be just like Sonic in that way, right?
>>154496175>virgAu contraire, Ian loved Archie Shadow so much he threw a shit fit when he couldn't recreate him for IDW.
Sonic X created "wind" fans and I will never forgive it for that. Sonic is not the wind.
>>154495603>Literally every single one from 2001 to 2006.false. a branch of Sonic Team relocated to the states to make SA2 and became Sonic Team USA. you can look it up yourself.Naka was not one of them. he stayed behind.the entire reason they did this was to split development between SA2 and PSO.>laughing and then insulting Sonic Underground for misunderstanding Sonic.extra funny when you know the story behind Sonic Underground>No, that is not a joke.but Yuji Naka is. lol
>>154496172>He's street smart, impertinant, irreverent and all around a great guy with a heart of gold.>Hangs out with little boys and underage girls wanting his D, reads books and caretakes chao despite having a supposed hyper fast go with the flow lifestyle, does the opposite of irreverant and impertinent by saving animals, working with the peacekeeper and police, pretty much helps the little guy and fights injustice like a typical superhero, also can't swim. Also runs from bitches instead of jumping into muff and one night stands them up.Sonic is a fraud. Mario is cooler than him.
>>154495694>Satam Sonic and SA2 Sonic except for romanceSatAM Sonic is an overfly fidgety spazz who defers constantly to Sally for directions (though he is snippy about it)He has no free spirit. He has no sense of adventure. He has no uncompromising nature.
>>154496263Archiefags complaining that Sonic fags prefer Sonic
>>154496259Proof?
>>154496210You are listing settings; the characters themselves are consistent. >inb4 shado the hedgehogHe had amnesia, and his personality is consistent with the canon route, while the rest are only 'what if's.The American side made fanfiction and tried to pass it as official.
>>154495855Literally just Archiefags influence. In the games, shipfagging was primarily done by the fangirls.None of the girls in Sonic are trophy girlfriends. All the guys are the cool dudes the girls wanna be around.
>>154496283The fact that Sega's mandates regarding Shadow were so strict Ian decided to just not use him at all.
>>154495657>as soon as Sonic started actually talking.demonstrably false, as sonic started talking in CD. Naka was not part of the CD team. and let's not forgethttps://youtu.be/esha_4pmUZ8?si=P4MjcH54Ak5opXk5&t=67
>>154496230>Mr. Needlemouse.WHO?
>>154496264>extra funny when you know the story behind Sonic Underground?
>>154496242>he's the perfect straightman/grump compared to the other silly characters.Nah he was cringe, awkward and lame as shit like a more autistic Knuckles without the tough warrior theme and somehow more a jobber than Silver and Amy combined. Big L
funny how bongs think their comic that only five bongs themselves have read has any weight with the franchise as a whole.to this day, there are still people finding out Sonic the Comic is a thing that exists, and still nobody cares about Tekno the Canary.
>>154485407Why the fuck would it ever be in Sega’s interest to depict that?
>>154495699see >>154494740
>>154496304If Ian can't mold Shadow according to Segas expectations, that's on him and he's a total hack.
I understand and even encourage different iterations using different personality traits but I never understood the idea of using a character if the only thing they have in common is their appearance and abilities
>>154495947>just the 1 known schizoRandomfox doesnt even hate these other interpretations for this reason He hates how you fags keep insisting it gets the character or is a good alternative to the games.He literally only showed up in response to Ian Flynn getting on IDW and IDWfags insisting it was canon anf that everything is the comic reflected the truth of the games.For me it was similar. I didnt gove a fuck until Rebootfags started insisting Reboot was "the true ultimate version of Sonic" and "Ian acrually understands the characters" because he can shove obscure wiki info and song lyrics into places.
>>154495855Not Belle. She’s so lame that she doesn’t have any shippers. Even the porn artists hardly touch her.
>>154496173>not having those specific things means youre barely a character.Not every character needs those things, anon. Dont be a
>>154496354Well, it was hardly just Shadow. He just stubbornly refuses to let Archie go, and keeps shoving in "close enoughs" to make IDW more like it. Evan too.
>>154496320SEGA wasn't telling anyone about the new game or what direction it was going in. Archie infamously had to import their own copy of the game. there was one guy in the office who sort of knew Japanese and played through it and guessed at what was happening in the story. SEGA wouldn't even provide them with a copy.DiC got started on Underground before the Dreamcast was even finished, let alone Sonic Adventure. and since SEGA was preventing them from making any more episodes of SatAM, they literally had to make shit up.
>>154496360Reboot Archie is the best version though. No mandates and the same tone as the games. It's the perfect mixture.
...Blacked?
>>154496210Those are different scenarios. The characters and lore was the fucking same.Shadow's game is "what if Shadow was thr main character and the Sonic cast was in an independence day alien invasion".Its still Sonic and the gang just put in the scenario. Black Knight is this in thr LITERAL sense since h literally gets summoned into the storybook world.This is westies and archiefags for you. The American education system is wild man.
>>154496304Ian wanted Shadow to take off his inhibitor rings and job to a mindless mob, of course, they are strict with him.
So according to JP Purists game Sonic wouldn't care who Sally is getting fucked by because he wouldn't want to fuck in the first place. So who actually loses in this scenario? Amy? Rouge?
>>154496172>Sonic and Goku aren't alikeNo fucking duh, Goku is way cooler and more a Chad than Sonic. He's the real rebel and madlad who breaks the rules, gets in everyones face and beats everything up for fun because he's addicted to fighting and training and the world depends on his crass and savage instincts to progress into stronger people to save the world. Sonic on the other hand is just a lazy freeloading super mutant that checks out the world and causes no real change on his adventures and most of his acts are due to wanting peace and freedom, not because he's a force of nature.
>>154496304He literally wrote Shadow Generations
Penders has never liked or appreciated Sonic, neither as a character nor as a series. He pretends he does, but he doesn't. I suppose it's because he thinks a kiddie game mascot is beneath his "superior" talent.He doesn't like Knuckles either. Yes, you read that right. He doesn't. He loves Knux (or whatever enchilada script he is now using to write the name), the character he made wear Knuckles as a meat suit to star in the stories he could never sell as original comics on their own, but which managed to get published in Archie after being given a hedgehog/echidna paint coat.
>>154496230>that's how we got Mr. Needlemouse.Thats not a thing. Also no this isnt true.The reason he is a hedgehog is a citation of factors. Naka wanted a game about speed. He also wanted 1 button gameplay so Yasuhara said to make the character spin while jumping, this coined with a spiny character Yamagumchi made and Oshima came up with Sonic's base character. All this happened before he drew the character and went to central park with "harinezumi-san" (Mr.Needlemouse was never a real thing. It was just a bad translation of hedgehog)
>>154496457Did he truly? Or did he just wrote what the Lore Team and SoJ told him to write?
>>154496415
>>154496293>the characters themselves are consistent.>Amy Rose, Sonic's platonic friend>Rouge, Shadow's acquaintance>Tails, Sonic's timid sidekick
>>154496457In IDW, not the games. Although Ian has been fighting Sega in those, too.
>>154496237>no response>just adhoms>couldn't even type em yourself. Just use a meme.I rest my case.
>>154496457He didn't; there are more writers listed.
>>154496490basedthe only character consistency ironically is sonic not caring about bitches
>>154496263>Sonic X created "wind" fansSonic was always the wind. The priginal origin story for Sonic had him come into existence do to an accident during operation "Blue Gale".
>>154496444No one retard, are you incapable of thinking without shipping in factor?
>>154496522Amy and Rouge exist to be shipped with Sonic and Shadow
>>154496377being barely a character is what makes him barely a character, anon. try tak
>>154496536Oh, so you have shit taste in couples too.
>>154496536Sonouge and Shadamy huh?
Why are knucklesfags so insecure about Rouge? Are they afraid of Shadow taking the last thing that made him a relevant character?
>>154496472>Also no this isnt true.
>>154488099Haha, NO.There's a reason why Flynn is still employed while Penders is blacklisted for good.
>>154495826Sally & Tails are both foxes. You might not know this.>>154492602Better than anything SEGA or this board of chucklefucks milking the cow at 4AM could come up with. They're too busy bitching at Sonic rather than coming up with ideas in a place where you can actually read them or at least tagging their shitposts so I can look them up in the archives. Even those lousy shitty fan comic books that are 20 years old are better than whatever /co/ came up with.What the hell has /co/ and /v/ come up with in 20 years? Nothing but seething in this place >You can't give Sonic and everyone a scarf that's stupid that looks stupid you're stupid.Jealous cunts living in the desert never heard of scarves, it's alien to them.
When it comes to discussions about different versions of Sonic, you can honestly find less bait and strawmen on /sthg/ than /co/ nowadays. It's funny how that flipped over the last couple years.
>>154496490Aside from Amy you’re unironically right. Shadow is not getting close to anyone after the ARK incident, especially not someone as selfish and greedy as Rouge. Tails is always going to be Sonic’s bitch. He may give lip service to wanting to change but like a fat girl swearing to go on a diet next week he will always fall back into old habits.
>>154496581Sally is a chipmunk.
>>154496580Because Penders sued, Ian talks big but shuts the fuck up when told by SEGA, unlike Penders like with heis retarded podcast were he tried to pass his fanfiction as official until SEGA told him to shut it.
>>154496590>Sally is a chipmunk.Satam writers said she isnt
>>154496590Her Dad was a fox in Satam.
>>154496609source?
>>154496269>>Hangs out with little boys and underage girls wanting his D,He doesn't. He fucks off to parts unknown going on sick adventures and chills near the beach sippin on Pina coats listening to rock music.Tails and Amy just chase him because he's cool and inspirational.>reads books and caretakes chao despite having a supposed hyper fast go with the flow lifestyle,How are these incompatible. Sonic is not an ADHD sugar rush character. This is more Westoid mischaracterization.Sonic is chill as fuck. >does the opposite of irreverant and impertinent by saving animals, ???>working with the peacekeeper and police, When he feels like it, not out of duty or responsibility. He was literally against the cops in more games than he was with them. He only was with them in the game where demon aliens were invading the fuckin planet.>pretty much helps the little guy and fights injustice like a typical superheroHe doesn't though. He doesnt stop bank robberies, he isn't keeping current politicians or businessmen in check and he isn't fighting overseas wars.He legit just stops Eggman and low key gets off on it because its fun.He helps people when he comes across them because he is a cool.guy like that. He ain't no boyscout.>>154496269>Also runs from bitches instead of jumping into muff and one night stands them up.You can tell this shit is only in western comics and porn because only betas think like this.Real Chad's dont chase pussy. Its has no value.>Sonic is a fraud. Mario is cooler than him.Sonic is th GOAT. Simprio who rescues a princess for a crumb of pussy he will never get could never.
>>154496304>strict mandatesThey aren't. Literally every other writer says they didn't have much problems with writing for Shadow. Its literally just that Ian's Fanon version is so OoC and he is such a hack writer that he got that much feedback.
>>154496417>The characters see >>154496490>and loretotally divorced from each new installment. please articulate how the stories of Unleashed, Colors, Forces and Frontiers fit together with any sort of coherency.
>>154496584/co/ Sonic threads have become just as cancerous as any general, hell there used to be a general dumping fan comics on /co/ until the jannies got tired of the offtopic spam and cringe roleplay sessions.
>>154496335I like Tekno and wouldn't mind her being canon.
>>154495297>In Archie, Sally was childhood friends with Knuckles and it’s implied they had a thing in the early issuesLord give this guy a break
>>154496624Ben Hurst. When he was asked what Sally's species was he said she's a fox. Her father is also officially a fox.
>>154496645This, no one has an issue but him, and then you hear shit like this >>154496423 and you understand why.
>>154496407Not a single thing in this post is true on any level.
>>154496624https://info.sonicretro.org/Interview:_Ben_Hurst_(2006-08-27)_by_SAGExpoSally being a chipmunk was an error in Archie. She's a fox. Her dad is also a fox.
>>154496449You clowns can literally only analyze a character based on how much of a "Chad" or a "cuck" they are. Holy shit. Stop acting like you have any clue how to interpret story telling or analyze media.You legit just treat it like being a football fan.
>>154496668so can you actually link to that or no?cuz all i'm finding is him calling her half-fox.
>>154496571>Outdated WikipediaOhshima's original idea for Sonic had him as two boys running in a dream world.Everything i said is true and is backed by thr UDOn History of Sonic The hedgehog book.
>>154496584Because it was always /co/fags causing the shitstorm. Gamedags DO NOT CARE. They only respond to /co/shit.
>>154496584Archiefags are the only camp in the Sonic fandom that try to argue for him getting hitched. As in the only one that isn't just some shipping group.
>>154496647Literally just Amy has inconsistency and its because of the West trying to pozz the character.Everyone else is not an inconsistency but fans who never played the games going off of fanon instead because Sonic games are inaccesible to normies.
>>154496746>Ohshima's original idea for Sonic had him as two boys running in a dream world.yes, i'm aware.everything i said is true and backed by Naoto Oshima himself.https://shmuplations.com/sonicteam/
>>154496304Stop believing that retard's lies. That was his excuse for his incompetence. God if I was SEGA I would have blacklisted him and possibly sued him for damages. Unlike SEGA I think like Nintendo. You pull that fucking Gearbox bullshit on me and the Yakuza is out to get you. SEGA are beta-orbiting pushovers and retards that whine but do nothing about it. Andy Pitchford would be in a bunker and the Borderlands IP would belong to me.
>>154496790>literal scenes from the games are 'fanon'dude, look at the image. it's more than just 'literally Amy'
maybe making a love interest for a guy who is incapable of feeling love was a stupid retarded idea?
>>154496800Proto NiGHTS
>>154496800And yet none of it contradicts what I said.Everything i said happened before Oshima drew Sonic's proper design and showed it off at Central Park.
Alright, I get it. In the original perfect pure japanese lore Sonic goes on adventures saving the world and kicking ass while not caring about anyone but his own adventures while Shadow plows Sally and gets her pregnant over and over again and Yugioh Takahashi confirmed this 3000 times in japanese interviews on the japanese website SushiYumYum.comAm I following along right?
>>154496820That image makes 100% sense in context. You people are just media illiterate just consume clips out of context and judge the writing based on whether or not the character is "the virgin or a chad" in the meme.>Inbefore Tails beat Chaos 4NO HE DID NOTChaos 4 was a boss fight where 3 characters fought it together.Tails only fuckong helped. Why the fuck would he be scared to fight Eggman but perfectly fine fighting Chaos 4 alone?Tails IN THAT SCENE is in a fuck because he blames himself for SONIC FUCKING DYING and the world GOING TO SHIT FOR 6 MONTHS STRAIGHT.Tails' thing has always been that he is his own weakness by getting in his own head. He had the same kind of arc in Sonic Battle.
>>154496821>incapable of feeling love Wrong.Its not about not feeling love, he just values his own set way of living and doesnt wanna compromise it. Guy originally was standoffish about even having tagalongs like Tails or Amy in the first place.
>>154496834>And yet none of it contradicts what I said.except for>Also no this isnt true.it's literally all true.Oshima says right there, the character started as a rabbit when they wiped the Twin Stars idea clean.he's a hedgehog because that was the most popular pick of the passersby. he could have just as easily been the dog or the armadillo.
>>154496569>Are they afraid of Shadow taking the last thing that made him a relevant character?Why would Shadow want the Master Emerald?
>>154496860Who said anything about perfect? It has flaws, but we cant even talk about those because we have to wade through 30 kilos of american larp tier misconceptions about the fucking character and series before we even get to those.
>>154496912Didn't you read Archie?
>>154496860No, because Sally is not a real character from the canon, so she can't interact with anyone. Shadow can't plap what doesn't exist, and no one is plaping anyone to begin with.
>>154496903>it's literally all true.The "no it isnt true" is the idea that he 100% made the character himself and Naka and others had no relevance or influence on the character. This is just straight up not true.Sonic would not be Sonic without Naka.Stop trying to erase Sonic's other dad.
>>154496597Penders was not getting new comic work waaay before shit hit the fan. That's why he went the "independent publisher" route.However, it was his copyright stunt and later lawsuits what made him being blacklisted for good.
>>154496883>That image makes 100% sense as long as I come up with my own reasons to impose on the character's thought process.
>>154496940So what you're saying is Shadow uses Time Control to fuck Sally creating a new timeline where he has sex with her all the time in Japan
>>154496569Shadow has nothing to do with Knuckles' relevance issues. Knuckles' character does.
>>154496946>Stop trying to erase Sonic's other dad.see >>154494061
>>154496710Ofc they made her a fox. She is supposed to be furry fapbait.
>>154496951Yes, Shadow fucks Sally Acorn in Japan
>>154496800Is that why Emerald and Green Hill Zone and a lot of places look like an eclectic fever dream where nothing fits together besides video game logic?
>>154496970>whataboutismSonic's dads breaking up DECADES later doesnt mean you have to act like a fucking woman picking between two guys in a romance novel when talking about the character and pretend he never contributed.
>>154496975Wait why did you correct me then
>>154496486>>154495918>>154495589>>154495310Does anyone know what happened with this artist?
If Ian is so good how come he is stuck doing Sonic comics?
>>154497005They continued to have awful taste?
>>154496949>Bro didnt play the fucking game.He LITERALLY says this IN THE GAMEHe treats Classic Sonic like his "second chance" for failing Sonic.Fucking un-players.
>>154497005He continued to understand the true official japanese intention of Sally which is Shadow's cumbucket
>>154496978I don't get hoe people say this about those levels.CD's and Chaotix's levels fit this description more.
>>154497005He still does art, just less often
>>154497013I'm no fan of his taste in shipping either, anon.But they seem to have disappeared for quite a few months.>>154497032I know it sounds weird, but my question was honest.
>>154497048Does he? >>154497051
>>154497048>SaletaI'm surprised it took this long for anyone to bring up Sally's odd descendant who has dark fur and is based on a character who's moveset is identical to Black DoomIf Penders was actually a hardcore Shadow autist I would say he planned that out, but he's obviously just lying and trolling for relevance so this is another coincidence.
>>154497064To be fair I think Aleta Ogord and Shadow were just part of the 90s edgelord hype and coincidentally line up. Archie was referencing Guardians. I don't know why they specifically decided to make her a descendant though
>>154484814Sonally was so OOC that it had Sonic saying things the exact opposite he would say in the games so I don't feel sorry for it getting fucked over by the guy who perpetuated it. Still not forgiving Penders or Flynn.
>>154497013He's the best Sonic artist around
>>154497090>>154497064Because Shadow fucked the shit out of Sally and that is the japanese intention of the character like all the JP purist guys are sayingSonic is supposed to only be hype moments and aura while everyone else fucks his girlfriends because he doesn't want them
>>154497149>He is actually throwing a tantrum and is still trying to shove non-canon characters like sally into the canonkek
>>154497166You have me mixed up with somebody else. I am telling a joke because I don't really understand the deep Japanese stuff. I already know Sally isn't even a Sonic character and she belongs to Penders
>>154496959Knuckles, as a character, was deeply damaged by years of meme writing that turned him from an earnest, aloof ally with a temper into a violent, drooling dumbfuck. A change that was later accelerated by Boom Knuckles (which I love as an isolated case, don't get me wrong).It wasn't until Sonic the Movie 2 and Frontiers that some of his former glory was restored, but the damage is still there. The only way I think Knuckles could be fully redeemed is by starring in his own storyline (either in a spin-off or as the focus of a subplot), but given the current trend of having only Sonic (or Shadow) as the sole POV character, Knuckles' chances are almost nonexistent.
>>154497134Maybe but still has awful taste
sonic is a retardedly simple mascot character, how do you make a comic series that fucks things up so bad that the people who made him say shit like "that isn't sonic" lol fuck archie
>>154497013I like Hyoumaru because he's the only one that actually makes Shadally comfy instead of... pain
>>154497201Sorry BOI, Silver is closer to getting his own game or DLC before Knuckles ever willTOTALHEDGEHOGSUPREMACY
>>154497263knuckles got a hollywood movie
>>154497263I would've called you crazy if you'd said this before May 2025, but given how quickly all the Silver merchandise sold out for the 35th Anniversary celebration, I honestly think Sega might consider cashing in on Silver a bit more.And I say that as someone who doesn't even like the character (though I don't hate him either).
>>154497284And a TV show.
>>154496536Probably this
Why is a princess fucking so many different guys
Silver FUCKS Blaze, Blaze exists to be a cocksleeve for Silver, how do Blazefags cope with that?
>>154497323>May 2026*Oopsie-poopsie!
>>154497201>Knuckles, as a character, was deeply damaged by years of meme writing that turned him from an earnest, aloof ally with a temper into a violent, drooling dumbfuck.No, Knuckles was never "aloof". He was always conceptualized as a hotheaded but stoic macho character driven by duty who is still kind of a doof.Knuckles was most popular during the time Shadow came out.The games and media did not make him a hyper violent doofus. This is a meme retarded americans took too seriously from shitposters online because most people ont he internet didnt actually play the games.Knuckles' issue is just his concept fundementally holds him back.You make a character whose thing is staying in one place and guarding a rock in a series about a guy who is always on the go.Whatsmore is his superstrength has always been more of a gameplay contrivance and informed trait more than anything tangible.A lot of Knuckles shill factor comes from people thinking he was Sonic but better since he could glide over all the gameplay and had super strength.A lot of people that talk about his glory and "being upstaged by shadow" car bless about the character and more the idea of him in the pecking order.
>>154497341>Blaze FUCKS Silver, Silver exists to be a cocksleeve for Blaze, how do Silverfags cope with that?fify*
>>154497341By remembering how much of an effeminate loser bitch Silver actually is
So when is Penders going to reveal that Silver also fucked Sally. It seems like she was letting everyone hit
>>154496626> He doesn't though. He doesnt stop bank robberies, he isn't keeping current politicians or businessmen in check and he isn't fighting overseas wars.He legit just stops Eggman and low key gets off on it because its fun.He helps people when he comes across them because he is a cool.guy like that. He ain't no boyscout.>Pic related
>>154497341>Bro needs a bitch from a whole ass dimension and storyline to come solve his fire demon problems for him, then when she holds his hand into sending her away so he can get the kill, he is too much of a bitch to do it and she has to do it herself.Sure thing Shitverfag.
>>154497359>No, Knuckles was never "aloof". He was always conceptualized as a hotheaded but stoic Did... we play the same Sonic And Knuckles game?Mothefucker's whole thing was laughing after hitting sonic, or hitting eggman, or just because he saw something happen, and if you left the controller on too long he got weirdly angry. He was everything but stoic. He was just a dick who punched things and went 'WOOPWOOPWOOPWOOP' in his game.
>>154497414Not seeing your point. Thats not "boyscout" behavior. Thats "rebel with a heart of gold" behavior.Jotaro Kujo had the same kind of shit.
We all know who Sally's true love is....https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/nayaasebeleguii/mordred-d-acorn
>>154497023>He played Forceslmaodid you spend hours making your OC perfect?
>>154497324Wade got a TV show. Knuckles was just the guest star.
I think an uptight tomboy princess and an asshole who refuses to play along is a cool pairing.
>>154497433>Did... we play the same Sonic And Knuckles game?You got "aloof" from his hawty shit eating grin laugh?>He was everything but stoic.You only see him in Sonic 3 on those moments when he is taunting you.His sign when you clear thr level has a clear intention of presenting him as more serious but also a hothead.Your post reads as a mishmash of nonsense eoth no clear support for your reading.
>>154497001>and pretend he never contributed.you mean like how Naka is doing with Oshima?turnaboutism is fair playism, anonism.
>>154495874
>>154497492No because its irrelevant to the conver-fucking-sation, drama whore.
>>154497233idk, how did the people who made Sonic fuck him up so bad that he hasn't had a good game in the past 25 years? lmao
>>154497480>You got "aloof" from his hawty shit eating grin laugh?I mostly got everything but "Stoic" which is the part I brought up.>You only see him in Sonic 3 on those moments when he is taunting you.I specifically brought up Sonic and Knuckles where we see his side of things and he's still a chaotic gremlin who does that weird laugh at everything and gets angry if you leave the controller idle. He is not stoic, nor is he really aloof, he's an energetic and easily excited guy with anger issues that got tricked by the dumbest possible trick ever in any sonic game. Sonic Boom is closer to his initial characterization and a stoic hothead.>Your post reads as a mishmash of nonsense eoth no clear support for your reading.There's an irony here...
>>154497450How the game works is you get more options over time to create a sense of progression so that by the end of the game you feel how your character went from a wimp to a jerk.
I never really got the appeal of Archie Sonic. He's just some arrogant douche who couldn't hold down a girl despite being the ultimate hero
>>154497521>he's still a chaotic gremlinHe really isn't. You're overselling shit now.Other games in the classics era more consistently show his more stoic side like the racing spinoffs and Chaotix anyway.
>Shadow: Too slow, blue hedgehog!
>>154497541Archiefags dont actually like Aechie Sonic as a story. They like it as a catalogue of "things" they can use to play scoreboard with and treat like a proxy diorama.
>>154497504so far all you've attributed to Naka is '1 button gameplay.'you said Yasuhara came up with spinning, Yasushi came up with spines and Oshima fleshed out the design.do you still stand by those statements?
People act like only Sonic fans get mad about this as if Halo fans didn't similarly get angry when the Halo live action series attempted to make Master Chief relatable by giving him a girlfriend
>>154497531the game is Sonic Team trying to do their own SatAM and failing.
>>154497562>He really isn't. You're overselling shit now.Oh okay, so him pulling traps on Sonic and then just standing there doing a whooping laugh thing before snapping like one scene later isn't particularly chaotic behavior. Cool. Very stoic and hotheaded of him.>Other games in the classics era more consistently show his more stoic sideUh huh.> like the racing spinoffs The fucking what nowWhat racing spinoffs existed in the genesis era? No seriously https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sonic_the_Hedgehog_video_games I've never heard of one and I can't see one, what is it?
>>154497618Makes sense since Satam and forces are both shit
>>154497593Sonic being fast was because of Naka.
>>154497359>No, Knuckles was never "aloof".If you want to go by the strict definition of the word, rather than the "aloof ally" trope, then you're kind of right.>The games and media did not make him a hyper violent doofus.They eventually did, though... precisely because they believed:>A meme took too seriously from shitposters online because most people on the internet didn't actually play the games....was what the audience wanted Knuckles to be.>Knuckles' issue is just his concept fundamentally holds him back.I don't think you're wrong here either. His whole "guardian of the Master Emerald and Angel Island" role does limit his participation quite a bit.Ironically, the problem could be solved pretty easily by making the Master Emerald smaller (like in the movies), having Knuckles carry it around in his hammerspace, and just "parking" Angel Island somewhere while he's away.
>>154497618>trying to do their own SatAM and failing.Literally just Westfag cope.They did a stream talking about thr game and the premise was always that of an OC maker game where sonic loses and you have to save him and team up to take back the world.SatAMfags are just narcisistic Amerilards that see themselves in everything.
>>154497633rabbits are fast.do you still stand by the statement you made about Yasuhara coming up with spinning and Yasushi coming up with spines?
>>154497624>Oh okay, so him pulling traps on SonicLiterally just him protecting his island.I get you didn't read thr manual and didnt even know the context of him doing anything and just saw him as a random red asshole trolling you and laughing but context matters.
>>154497624>What racing spinoffs existed in the genesis era? No seriouslySonic Drift 2 later Sonic R>I said genesis er-Yeah but I never did.
>>154497541It was basically Spider-Man but with a cockier and more arrogant Peter Parker.
>>154497657>where sonic loses and you have to save himexcept he winds up breaking himself out and beating up Zavok. did (You) play the game, anon?
>>154497469Based AF
>>154497676>Literally just him protecting his island.No, he's specifically being malicious to him in that scene, because he was tricked into thinking Sonic is responsible for a thing he couldn't reasonably have been responsible for, believing the only guy who could've been responsible for it and then getting very angry when it doesn't go the way he wants it to.>I get you didn't read thr manual and didnt even know the context of him doing anything and just saw him as a random red asshole trolling you and laughing but context matters.I'm the one who brought up him being a dumbass being tricked, you don't have to pretend.>>154497691>Yeah but I never did.Fair enough? Guess I'll look up some old game gear footage to see if you pulled that out of your ass like everything else.
>>154497636>His whole "guardian of the Master Emerald and Angel Island" role does limit his participation quite a bitRemember when people used to joke about what a terrible guardian Knuckles was because he'd leave the Master Emerald all alone to go adventuring and racing with Sonic and friends?Too bad some people started taking the joke so seriously that Sega ended up shackling the poor echidna to the rock.
>>154497631Word.
>>154497691>>154497728So there's no cutscenes in the Drift 2 game, but there is an end title card.Look at how stoic he is. Unflappable, that guy, he totally doesn't look like he's going to mcdonalds to get a toy. He totally doesn't look like he's going 'Yahhhhyyyyy'.Come on.
>>154497759
>>154484814>>154493198>Eternal Cucknic
>>154497636>They eventually did, though... precisely because they believed:>>A meme took too seriously from shitposters online because most people on the internet didn't actually play the games.>...was what the audience wanted Knuckles to be.No, Boom was jist written by Westoids that morphed him into the stereotypical dumb muscle for the Boom Cartoon.He was never this in the games. People only ever called him an idiot because he would get tricked by Eggman robot force their rivalry or would be made to not be guarding his island and the Mayser Emerald to shove him into game appearances. His actual behavior and personality didnt factor at all.>>154497636>Ironically, the problem could be solved pretty easily by making the Master Emerald smallerIt wouldn't though, because then you are makong him dumb by having h bring it everywhere with him where it can be at risk, letting his island he.crashbinto the ocean and get flooded, and most importantly, reducing him to Sonic's muscle sidekick which removes all the redeeming and compelling aspects to his character.Even in the movies, the Master Emerald is hidden away by giving it to Wade. And even then, it exists more as jist a way to circumvent having to do the whole chaos emerald quest by making it 1 mcguffin.People need to realise that character writing isnt a mechanics issue. Knuckles as a character, the thing that makes him compelling and interesting, IS his duty. If you write him out of having it you make him a weaker less compelling character.Its what we call "negative character development."The issue with Knuckles is the thing that makes people like him and find him compelling is fundamentally not compatible with the core conceit of the series.Its really telling that in SA2, Knuckles' parts of the Hero Side story basically have almost nothing to do with the actual story for example. And his rivalry with Sonic was pretty much just down to him being tricked. His character was just kind of ill-conceived.
>>154497673>rabbits are fast.Im not seeing your point? Do you reduce Sonic down to just being a hedgehog? The idea of him being fast was because of Naka. This is inarguable. And his design communicating that speed is a consequence of this.
>>154497710>breaking himself outNo retard. You break him.out by turning off the power and unlocking the cuffs.>did you play the game?Fucking unplayer who only watches cutscene compliations confirmed. If you actually played the game, you would know the actual context.Fuck off.
>>154497824>And his design could have just as easily been a rabbit or a dog or an armadillo.do you stand by your previous attributions to Yasuhara and Yasushi, anon?
>>154497779Anon this is a videogame. Look at hoe he is presented in actual gameplay and menues
>>154497201Knuckles already had his own whole spinoff storyline nigger.They wasted Iblis on giving Knuckles a retarded "I killed it as a baby in my sleep" backstory powerup in the movies
>>154497838doesn't stop the fact that he was supposedly "tortured" but when you see him he's not only perfectly fine, but beats up Zavok all by himself.Forces is literally Sonic Team going>Forget those OTHER guys.>OUR guys are the freedom fighters now!>Do you love them?>Please God love them.and they still haven't released the sales numbers to this day lmao
>>154497840>could have just as easily been a rabbit or a dog or an armadillo.No, the hedgehog was chosen specifically because it fit the concept best.
>>154497816>His character was just kind of ill-conceived.Not remotely unless you look at it purely from a "This is going to be a teammate" sort of way. For the actual story in question of Sonic and Knuckles he works perfect. A guy who does stuff that's occasionally malicious and he seems to enjoy it so he's a foil, but you see from his perspective he's just socially maladjusted and guarding a thing that got stolen. He can knock Sonic out of Super Sonic because chaos powers, so he's a threat, but also he's useful if he's on your side punching eggman because he enjoys it. He's got unique mechanics from a gameplay perspective so you can do fun shit and he's got a reason to be involved in the plot. He checks every box to make him mysterious but compelling and understandable but fun in his first game, and obviously it worked great.What's ill conceived is going "Okay now he's going to follow Sonic on his adventures." Because, how? Why? He got the thing he wanted to get. Sonic went to him and got suckerpunched, he's not going to let that happen again. They don't have a beef, Sonic doesn't have anything Knuckles wants.
>>154497851>Look at hoe he is presented in actual gameplay
>>154494308Sonic is the gayest and lamest character imaginable.
>>154497864>the hedgehog was chosen specificallyby?
>>154497859>literally just regugitating fraud youtuber opinions.Play the games, poser.Also none of this has anything to do with the original point.
>>154497023he didn't do anything to help Classic Sonic either, just begged O GREAT AND POWERFUL AND WISE CRASSIC SONIKKU to save him once again as he continued to cower.So some "second chance" that is.Plus he was literally cowering at the start of the game too, before Infinite killed Sonic, lmaoCoward at the start of the game. Coward in the middle. Coward at the end.
>>154497851Okay, sure.>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDANtoxpcz4>0:30 and 34 seconds, the only times he's on a menu>Has a goofy little smile in bothDid you actually even look at this game or just throw it out? Look at this goofy son of a bitch, he's having the time of his life.
KRATOS FVCKING WOOOOOOOOOOON!
>>154497936yaaaaass saar
>>154497936/this/.
>>154497793>The Ultimate Ntrhog
>>154497872>Not remotely unless you look at it purely from a "This is going to be a teammate" sort of way.According to his creator Takeshi Yuda, that was always the intention. Knuckles was created as a Teamate FIRST. He wasnt even originally gonna be playable. But they decided later to make him fight Sonic and be playable, and so they had to justify why he is fighting both Sonic and Eggman and the idea of him being tricked came into being.So yeah, he was always ill-conceived.The idea he was ever supposed to be Sonic's Bass is misunderstanding of ehat "rival" means in colloquial japanese media context. It usually describes what we would instead call the Lancer.>He's got unique mechanics from a gameplay perspective so you can do fun shit and he's got a reason to be involved in the plot.Knuckles's unique gameplay doesnt work organically in Sonic level design which is ehy he had to be locked off from normal routes and funneled into sections dedicated to him specifically. His main gimmick of super strength is only ever demonstrated via arbitrarily makong certain things unbreakable for Sonic and everyone else.Im not even saying this to dunk on Knuckles, he is my 4th fave character behind Omega and Amy.I originally thought he might have been made as a one off and came back due to popularity but no, apparently he was always supposed to be a Sonic companion.But its just true he was objectively ill-concieved.
>>154497893>opinionsnah, it's literal fact that they play up Sonic's predicament but he's totally fine when you see him.> the original point.which is still that Tails' character arc literally regressed.
>>154497892>The hedgehog was chosenwhy?According to Oshima he already went in eith the notion Donic and Rggman's base designs would be the ones picked anyway But why did Oshima pick it?Because it fit the concept of a fast guy that spins to attack best. And those factors exist because of Naka.
>>154497907>he didn't do anything to help Classic Sonic either,He is literally the one guiding and directing Classic Sonic around. Classic Sonic jist does whatever the fuck Tails says in Forces. He's basically just Tails' muscle sidekick the whole game.Being playable doesn't determine "doing things".
>>154497982Well that's kind of funny considering the rumor of them originally intending to keep Shadow dead, which by the way has never actually been confirmed. The only interview that mentions it specifically said they made it so it's an open ending if people liked him, or he stayed dead if the game flopped
>>154498008>why?no, anon. by. as in, by whom?>Because it fit the concept of a fast guy that spins to attack best. And those factors exist because of Naka.so then Yasuhara did not come up with spinning? you no longer stand by that?ok. now what about Yasushi and spines?
>>154497982>According to his creator Takeshi YudaDo you have the exact source?
>>154497922My main memory of the game is his serious face in the character select.>>154498003>nah, it's literal fact that they play up Sonic's predicament but he's totally fine when you see him.Play up? You mean the 1 line of dialogue thats not even in the japanese script?Also Sonic WOULD be fine after getting tortured for weeks anyway. He would just wince and smile like a Chad.Based on leaks, we know they were originally gonna have it depicted in game, but the Social Media manager at SoA at the time botched about it being "too edgy" so they cut it, but the line remained in the English script anyway.>>154498003>which is still that Tails' character arc literally regressedYes...because THATS THE PLOT OF THE GAME. Thats his arc, stupid.
>>154498021you mean Classic Sonic fights and beats everyone while Tails just cowers away from the action and says exposition for the great hero Sonic who everyone (including him) must kiss the feet of for saving them.Even the other heroes got to fight characters in the end cutscenes against Infinite's army, but not Tails. Even there he runs away and cowers while the real Sonic does everything.
>>154498068Tails doesn't have an arc. He's cowering in the tutorial to make Sonic look good.
>>154498053>so then Yasuhara did not come up with spinning? you no longer stand by that?You keep intentionally being evasive. Spinning came.up because Naka insisted on one-button gameplay. Without that, Sonic wouldn't not be a hedgehog because there would be no need for the idea of spinningSonic is a VIDEOGAME CHARACTER. Unplayers NEED TO LEAVE
>>154498054Not on me currently but it was shared to me when I was making the argent you currently are back on /sthg/.Knuckles makes sense if he was a 1 off, but he wasnt made to be, so yeah he is ill-concieved. They didnt think it through with him.I'll look around if I can find it.
>>154498068>My main memory of the game is his serious face in the character select.They have like 8 pixels to work with and most of them are devoted to giving him a smile. He literally does not have any kind of expression at all in the portrait when you're driving him. He is just a mouthless blank like everyone else. AMY looks as "Stoic" as he does in the portrait, because it's nothing there's no expression.This character has 4 expression across the entire game you listed and 3 of them are him being happy and goofy.
>>154498068>Also Sonic WOULD be fine after getting tortured for weeks anyway. He would just wince and smile like a Chad.Me after sawing off Sonic's arms and legs, sawing off his microdick, getting him hooked on crack heroin and pcp needles, uploading to Pornhub an ongoing series of Sonic sissyporn where he's getting raped in the butt by black men, and running a 24/7 livestream of me fucking Amy and his Archie on his Archie racecar bed when Sonic the "chad" is still smiling, apparently having felt none of it because he's just a vapid furry avatar for adult male virgins with no real personality.
>>154498086>You're being evasive by asking direct, simple questions.ok>Naka insisted on one-button gameplayyes, this is the contribution you have consistently credited to him.>Without that, Sonic would not be a hedgehogi fail to see how that directly translates, seeing as how he was a rabbit at first. 1 button can be used for a lot of things, anon. jumping, punching. 'spinning' is not the foregone conclusion you seem to think it is.also, you keep saying speed was Naka's idea, but here's Oshima saying it was his. along with some wildly different concept art for the main character. Sonic was a whole lot of different things before he finally settled on hedgehog.
>>154498041The idea Shadow was supposed to stay dead is interesting because I believe it is true, but that the team also all wanted to bring him back anyway despite thrm all originally settling on him staying dead.He was beloved by everyone in the dev team on top of being popular so his death being intended is only really true in word.Iizuka later said he always intended to bring him back and I believe him. But I dont thibk that was the decided intention during SA2. Just moreso something they wanted to do alla long in spite of the decision.From a conceptual and thematic standpoint, shadow having been intended to die in SA2 makes sense as having a character like Shadow around permanently is kind of volatile since he competes so directly with Sonic at being "Sonic". So it makes sense they probably said "okay we are gonna make a "darker cooler Sonic but he has to die at the end to protect Sonic's aura".
>>154498122The character select has a black screen, you hack.
>>154498137He says when depicting the aforementioned scenario as if its a real argument.
>>154498068>They walked back all his development because THEY WANTED TO, stupid.ya, and the point is it's dumb and inconsistent.>It was going to be more b-b-but SoA!!!lollmaohttps://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/sonic/we-had-very-little-say-graff-discusses-sonic-team-writing-relationship-r1845/
Lol Sally fucked Shadow officially
>>154498185Ohshima himself said that the idea of Sonic being fast came before any character design for Sonic. The rabbits gimmick wasnt going fast. It was picking things up.
>>154498225it is a real argument. Actual torture and humiliation would break your vapid furry self-insert Sonic.He's the equivalent of a spoiled brat who thinks he's tough because he's never gone through any hardship in his life, and that's why his spoiled sheltered fans like you think such cringe things like "heh Sonic wouldn't even NOTICE torture!" unironically. Because you've never left your mommy's basement before
>>154498235>walked back.Its not a "walk back" you drooling imbecile. He had a fucking slump. Its called failing forward.>link
>>154498068>Also Sonic WOULD be fine after getting tortured for weeks anyway. He would just wince and smile like a Chad.Let's test that.
>>154498209>So it makes sense they probably said "okay we are gonna make a "darker cooler Sonic but he has to die at the end to protect Sonic's aura".2001 sonic wasn't really the "Cool guy" anymore though. He'd been through 6 games where he was mostly just a kid friendly mascot, to say nothing of his goofy ass saturday morning cartoon that turned him into a looney tune that gave life lessons, which then became a life lesson one who sang silly songs. I'm positive they never planned to kill Shadow off permanently just because there wasn't anything to preserve with Sonic as far as cool factor goes and having a "Cool" villain just made sense considering everything that happened with Eggman and Knuckles. When he says he was always going to come back(Unless the game bombed) I believe him, only a flop could make them want to get rid of him.
>>154498105>I'll look around if I can find itWould appreciate it, thanks.>Knuckles is ill-concievedI’ve been reading your replies throughout the thread (NTA you were replying to, just in case), and I don’t think your assessment on Knuckles production and later involvement is wrong, but I still can’t help but feel that “ill-conceived” isn’t the right word to describe the Knuckles situation you’re bringing up.
>>154498247>it is a real argumentIt isn't stupid. Torture would be like thishttps://youtu.be/w5N1kkSLK-4?t=183This is what a normal person thinks of when you say "torture". Especially in a cartoon all ages series.Physical inflection of pain.Not the deranged shit you posted.
>>154498068>>154498137Thank you.I once saw a bunch of Sonicfags (on twitter, where all their fandom lives) unironically circlejerking that Sonic would mindbreak AM (from I Have no Mouth and I must Scream) because Sonic would totally pwn and troll and oneshot AM and AM would never be able to break his spirit with torture.Was the cringest thing I've ever seen, to date in my life. You could tell none of them had ever read IHNMAIMS, they never knew any media but Sonic and were getting their info from Twitter and Digital Circus Osmosis, thinking he'd say mean words like "you failed your friends" or make him fight toy robots, instead of engineering a huge dicked homunculus to fuck his gf in front of him and drilling holes in his skull and removing his legs and turning him into a great soft jelly thing in constant agony
>>154498243and this concept of speed was around with Twin Stars, before Naka was even involved. so why credit Naka with the idea to make it fast?
>>154498279What I posted is real torture. What you posted is Sonic getting the emeralds removed, then trying to wank that as "heh, SONIC WOULD NEVER CARE ABOUT TORTURE!" because you're a self-inserter.Sonic would cry like a baby bitch and beg and whee like a piggy from real torture. People like you and Sonic are spoiled prissy frufru faggots and eternal manchildren.
>>154497201Knuckles is boring as fuck now. All he does is stay on Angel Island and be grumpy while treating the Master Emerald as his only friend.
>>154498209I wonder what they meant by "bringing him back" during SA2 production. I ask because, for me, I think Shadow should have stayed dead and should only have been brought back as a non-canon multiplayer character for racing and party games (like they did with Tikal), and as a skin for Sonic's levels (like they did with Metal in SA1). Could they have been referring to that originally?
>>154498137unironically yes sonic would get back up from all of that. he has been tortured, he has been mind controlled, he has had digital suffering uploaded into his brain, he has been seconds away from death and he would still smirk
>>154498256Sally would love it.Sonic would love to watch.Maybe rape Fiona and Amy too. Let them see what a lil betacuck Sonic is, watching.
>>154498256>using Archie as a na argumentGamenic wouldt give a fuck.>>154498266>2001 sonic wasn't really the "Cool guy" anymore though. He'd been through 6 games where he was mostly just a kid friendly mascot, to say nothing of his goofy ass saturday morning cartoon that turned him into a looney tune that gave life lessons, which then became a life lesson one who sang silly songs.That has nothing to do woth his depictions in the games. Whatsmore is his redesign in the adventure era was in part made specifically to push him out of looking too cute and goofy and be more cool on the contemporary sense.For people who weren't poisoned by poochienic on the cartoons, seeing Adventure Sonic jump out of a helicopter and snowboard down Central City and soaping on rails was cool as heck.I don't see hoe anyone can think otherwise unless they just bounced off the series to begin with or never played games.
