>>154594928
because this weakens the power of the state
in ancient times, you didn't just have the king stoning people, or his knights, or the priests.. the entire village had to do it, starting with the wronged party, then the oldest, all the way down. because if there was a mistake, the entire populace needs to have the blood on their hands, together.

heroes are vigilantes. their job is to fill in where law enforcement fails, and to compensate for superpowered villains who are inherently unhandlable (or you know, terrorists who cannot otherwise be harmed without massive collateral damage, etc). If they also act as executioners, then the state has nothing left to do, and might as well just give up and stop draining the tax money. That's not a good system long-term. not even medium-term. Even if it is, objectively, superior in the short-term

now obviously IN THE MOMENT if someone is about to die, you have to kill the villain. That's always been how it works, for cops, capes, soldiers, whoever.

Because then they'd have to keep writing new villains.

Nah, fuck you, if i'm embroiled in a life threatening struggle, my own or any bystanders, i'm using as much force as possible to end the threat as quickly as possible
to do anything less is narcissistic, putting your own hubris above the safety of others

>>154595171
the no kill rule has never applied to situations like you're describing.

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>>154595165

>>154594928
not their obligation to kill.
Never mind "life is sacred" or "they can be rehabilitated and redeemed", heroes aren't obliged to kill.

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>>154595178

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>>154595188

>>154594928
>Why is there still a no-kill rule in comics?
You know why, check any other thread asking this dumb question.

>>154595177
yes it is, consistently
hell, its the entire framing device of What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and the American way
mass murderer breaks out of jail to immediately merc random civilians and supes takes the kiddie gloves to him while little johnny is staring at the burnt corpse of his father

>>154595178
first aid is partially responsible for trail's death here.
is alex milne doing any transformers art these days? his linework always looked clean af.

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>>154594928
Everyone decided all the heroes should be Batman, even though superheroes sometimes killed people plenty of times pre-2010s.
>Captain Atom blew up soviet fighter jets
>Batman killed dogs and left some people to die
>Superman executed an alternate universe Zod
>Hawkman is Hawkman
Etc.

>>154595207
he's been dealing with long-ongoing health issues

>>154595165
>>154595178
based amublance.

(though should have made the first one suffer a bit first before offing him as a small degree of responsability for his crimes before oblivion.)

>>154594928
I liked how the Shadow handled shit. He would try not to get the villian killed, but its a dnagerous situation, shit happens.

>>154595214
shit. poor guy.

>>154595197
it's different when superman does it. he's supposed to disable and subdue people because he can do so without anyone else being hurt
if those people are super strong, he can hit them hard enough to kill regular people.

>>154594928
It depends on the hero, but the way I see it in DC is that their heroes are more like firefighters in the sense that they see their main objective as directly saving and defending people, so they're not going out of their way to kill anyone, since that's not what they're trying to do, it'd be a misuse of their powers.
In Marvel, they're more like soldiers, so while I don't think they necessarily like killing, a good bunch of them are willing to do it if pushed comes to shove.
Of course there are exceptions to both, but you know what I mean.

To actively decide who lives and dies is kinda fucked up, I dunno about you guys.

>>154595095
It's why the problem is never why hasn't Batman just killed the Joker.
It's why the fuck the State hasn't already fried his ass? The amount of times he should have been shivved by an inmate or a pissed off guard or cop-car etc.

It's just a weakness of any ongoing, to justify a popular villain coming back they are either kept on ice until a break-out which becomes routine, or they are resurrected which cheapens death. You have to reconcile that as a reader, but a good writer can make that suspension of disbelief lighter.

Superman doesn't generally kill people cause he can usually overpower villains, but he has no kill code right?

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>>154595210
>Superman executed an alternate universe Zod
To be fair, didn't that fuck him up mentally real bad?
Superman isn't like Batman, but he does generally consider all life precious and will try to find non-lethal ways to deal with the bad guys, he doesn't want to kill.

>>154595389
general newer writing has him take on a strict no kill rule after killing zod

>>154595358
the rules aren't complicated
everyone has rights, until they violate the rights of others. now they lose the right to that thing. an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. no further. if you want 2 teeth in revenge, fuck you. You get one, that's it. if you choose to show mercy and leave his teeth alone, then hopefully mercy will be shown to you next time

blah blah murderers do not have the same right to live that everyone else does.

>>154595095
>That's always been how it works, for cops, capes, soldiers, whoever.
That's the thing tho, superheroes aren't cops or soldiers, not usually at least, that distinction usually holds them to a higher standard in protecting life, there tends to be a big emphasis on heroes saving and defending people more than them actively going out to kill the bad guy.
Them having to fight the villain is usually just an escalation and logical end point, they have to beat the villain so the civilians will be safe, but they aren't usually out there trying to kill.

>>154594928
>Why is there still a no-kill rule in comics?
they want to keep using the characters
/thread

>>154595108
This is the real reason and has always been the only real reason.

>>154595453
yes, this anon gets it.

>>154595389
Superman has gone back and forth depending on the era and the writer.
First I think he was killing casually like any other hero in the Golden Age, but eventually mellowed out and by the Silver and Bronze Age he had an active no-kill rule, justified by him having other options.
He still wasn't so actively against killing like Batman, in the sense that he at least believed in the use of lethal force as an absolute last resort if used for self-defense.
Nowadays I think they go with the latter.

>>154595429
>an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth
I'm sorry anon, but I've always found this extremely retarded lol, it's not an exact equivalence.
I've also found death just kind of cheap, like it kinda "frees" the bad guy of any actual punishment, I'd rather have them serve time instead of just disappearing from this plane of existence.

>>154595453
Did you not read my post?
>>154595530
what part of perfectly symmetrical fairness seems odd to you?
also, perpetual imprisonment is a very new and very shitty concept. it just puts people on the dole. unless you're putting them into forced labor, you have just made the problem worse

>>154595414
Ain't that just Post-Crisis Supes? That hasn't been canon in ages.

>>154595530
nta, but I agree with you.

>>154595358
Do you think this way about James Bond? Conan the Cimmerian? Indiana Jones?

>>154594928
>Why is there still a no-kill rule in comics?
Because Invincible did it and it was fucking boring. You don't want every comic to be Invincible, do you?

>>154595095
>heroes are vigilantes
Wrong, heroes are the new gods and are above useless outdated things like government

>>154594928
lets drop the bullshit and retard people are posting about in comic logic. its not in comic its out of comic. why wont anyone kill cuz its bad wrong even though history has done this always.


profits. if joker dies or one of the big names those profits and comic sales cant happen. so the comic loop goes on forever while heroes are wrote to have fail logic that wouldnt work in reali life and they always write cringe bullshit heroes win with hope and redeem and good ol keep trying. its why the batman who laughs story was so god awful and anything else in the last forever. comics are build around a loop and not solving shit.


so no matter what retard repleis of well superman does this or batman cant cuz... nope. all bullshit. nobody would be so mentally ill to cling to this civ body count go up forever while we larp we're protecting them.


batman doesnt but power girl doesnt show up and oops joker to the sun.... well cuz profits. we need everyone always available to profit off.l

there
/thread

>>154597131
ESL or fourteen: You be the judge.

>>154594928
>kill super villian
>he gets resurrected in some retarded way
>repeat till people stop caring if someone dies or not

>>154594928
because murder bad

Storywise it's because they don't want the villains to die because they're also iconic, but there's also the fact that they tow a dangerous line and it's in their best interest to show the people and governments that they can operate with restraint

>>154597166
killing your enemies is for edgy anti-heroes who say "screw due process"
not killing your enemies is for paragons who believe that murder is bad

why is this so hard for people to grasp?
spider-man snapping peoples necks every issue turns him into the punisher, we dont need that because we already have the punisher

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>>154597140
neither. nice attempts to dismiss what was said. did you know that this is 4chan and the internet. nobody but faggots and cock loving butt stuffed retards bitch or seethe about grammar, punctuation or spelling. oh did you just bitch about... run along butt stuffed and stop thinkg you being unable to read is a me problem and not a you're dumb problem. 2+2=potatoe for you. lol, lmao. stay big mad and bonus the things i said are not invalid nor dismissed because some 4th rate subhuman had a stupid thought. later kid.

>>154595375
>why the fuck the State
Same reason as to why Batman exists. Justice in Gotham is ineffective and corrupt. The actual question is why Batman is not fighting that, and the answer is pure marketing. To not imply that the state is the big bad or that Batman is some kind of revolutionary figure. Corruption in Gotham never goes above policemen and crime lords to keep the conflict simple and safe. You're not supposed to focus on the paradox. Except you can't ignore it when the usual suspects "keep getting away with it" after their arrest, when crime lords are barely a problem in Gotham anymore, or when Batman is deputized and good cop Jim is the chief of the GCPD.
>of any ongoing
Lucky Luck follows a similar formula and has no such problem because it avoids all the mistakes Batman writers do.
> Lighthearted and comical tone + setting being the far-west make villains escaping a none-issue
> very few recurring villains and none of them are played as his nemesis
> comics never shy away from making fun of how incompetent people in charge are
> or play them as the biggest threat
> a huge reccurring theme is that law =/ justice and the writers never forget that

>>154594928
IF HERO KILL VILLAIN, WRITERS NO CAN USE VILLAIN NO MORE.

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>>154594928
>Why is there still a no-kill rule in comics?
1. Because they're written for kids that aren't mature enough to process death.
2. They'd have to get creative and create new villains to replace those which have been killed.

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>"If you kill a killer then the number of killers remain the same." - Batman
I have a solution for that...

>>154594928
Because that isn’t an actual hardcoded rule. It’s just a concept people made up to explain specific writing decisions like why super vigilantes don’t go lynching super criminals. You’re just too autistic to accept that or to make your own stories if you’re dissatisfied with the current regime.

>>154598400
Wrong

Because if Hero A killed Villain B who, just for argument's sake, was a mass shooter who just executed twenty church goers in a Synagogue or Muslim temple and then proclaimed his support for Hitler, people on /pol/ would lose their collective shit.

And the publishers don't want to deal with one side or the other crying "you're demeaning us!"

>>154594928

Heroes are highly satanic because of that. They oughta burn in HELL

>>154598641
Fuck off

>>154597184
>killing your enemies is for edgy anti-heroes who say "screw due process"
You mean vigilantes? They fight crime because the system sucks.
>not killing your enemies is for paragons who believe that murder is bad
And they're stupid. Those bad guys murdered innocents left and right but it's still wrong to kill them? The absolute evil fucks? The hell can you say to the victims' families?
>Hey it's wrong to kill so it's wrong to kill your daughter's murderer rapist
Fuck outta here.

No kill rules are selfish. To be a hero, you need to sacrifice whatever morals and values you have for the greater good. It's part of the self sacrifice. You dirty your hands so no one else has to. All to protect the innocent.

>>154598677
>You mean vigilantes?
a vigilante would actually want to drastically limit how far past the law they go, because by being a vigilante in the first place means the police can just arrest them on a moments notice just by existing
since they only exist as long as the police tolerate them, it makes sense to not break any more laws than they already have by turning to vigilantism in the first place

> Those bad guys murdered innocents left and right but it's still wrong to kill them?
a core ethical principle is that an act is good or bad on its own, not in relation to who it is committed against
murder is murder, you are not excused of it
anyone who commits murder should be prepared to be tried as a murderer themselves regardless of who its committed against

>>154598694
>you need to sacrifice whatever morals and values you have for the greater good.
t. hardcore utilitarianist

>>154594928
>mass murdering psychopath actively and brazenly killing literally thousands of people when superhero shows up
>"I'm not going to kill you because that would make me as bad as you!"
name literally anything more retarded

>>154594928
Ask not why the superheroes don't kill and more why the government hasn't executed some of these fucking guys. Like seriously. I'm fine with Batman refusing to kill the Joker. Bruce having a moral standard he doesn't want to compromise for fear of what he may become if he starts making any kind of exception is fine and in-character.

But you're telling me Joker can blow up entire neighborhoods of children across the world for a quick gag and literally no one just ices his ass? Even if it's "oh Gotham doesn't support the death penalty" this mf has gone on international crime sprees. He's murdered someone in every US state and probably at least half of all first world countries at minimum. And not once did anyone decide to give him the chair, or a firing squad, or a lethal injection, or anything like that?

Fucks sakes how over all of comics has a cop in Gotham not seen him tied up after Batman was done with him and not just popped a cap in his head for the numerous people he's killed? If I was Red Hood my issue would be with the fuckass justice system that has full power to kill that fucking clown and just never does. It's literally more unrealistic than any goofy shenanigan he's pulled that no individual cop or the state hasn't just decided to fry his ass. And the same goes for most villains who are just mass murderers.

>>154598711
Get dirty.
Get ugly.
Get the job done.

>>154598677
>>154598709
>Gets called out
>ignores half the stuff said to give a safe corporate boot lick answer

>>154598721
Cops and civilians try to kill Joker all the time. They always fail because his goons somehow always know ahead of time and slaughter all would-be assassins.

>>154598723
if we are only talking about humans as a spreadsheet to be balanced, then we reach the endpoint of the state being a police state with no freedoms because our need for freedom woul;d be outweighted by the purely pragmatic need to prevent people from dying

>>154598728
the very bootlicking answer of not wanting to commit murder

>>154598709
>they only exist as long as the police tolerate them
They won't. Vigilantism is very illegal and they will go after them.
>a core ethical principle is that an act is good or bad on its own, not in relation to who it is committed against
Bullshit. What kind of black and white shit is that? Killing the killer rapist is just as bad as the killer rapist killing and raping? That's retarded.

>>154598731
We're talking about vigilantes.

>>154598721
if we ignore the comics wrote to do this for profits and loops and look in world its stupid af still. you're telling me not one victim of joker kills him? tries? not one other hero goes yeah fuck this. you're telling me no villain goes oh yeah fuck him.

oh wow ivy loves earth and joker toxins are bad for the earth why the fuck does she team up wit him? she'd turn him into fertilizer.
but naaah everyone including reality itself goes nah joker gets to not die fuck his victims and body count go up.


ive actually used that exect logic of body count go up in chatbots.

comics assume you can think on a level of illogical to make it all work. I wont and dont pretend this bs would fly. and again these same mortal heroes think they can sass and back talk and collar gods. lol, lmao that's mortal human writer and reader fantasy. larping they could collar aphrodite and she'd fall mad wicked in love over it. mere mortal wishes to be able to back sass gods and goddess get collared. wonder women and her lasso weakness is just again more human mortal fantasy to make demi-goddess and divines able to "fall" to mortal humans. real divines would not humor such bs. but human mortal wrote divines appearently will just get collared to bruce and his harem and get sassed and back talked and creme their panties over mortal humans

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>>154594928
>most heroes should absolutely kill dangerous villains when they get the chance
Because it's illegal and most heroes work alongside police officers. Aside from being vigilantes they do their best to not break any laws. And the heroes that do kill get hunted down or scrutinized over it. If you're still confused then go read some Daredevil.

>>154595197
If you can subdue and arrest someone, they aren't an active threat, even if they just killed someone. You can take them in.

>>154598738
oh ok there cucky corporate. go suck suck some more and larp murder is ok by others and can be ignored by heroes cuz cucky no balls has no spine or convictons. you'd be joker another body.


remember that the heroes who claim to be heroes are still criminals in the eyes of the legal law even if some rogue systems work with the criminals and not arrest them. or for comic writer sake the civs are presented as useless cowards.
magically this would imply that superman did not have powers as a civ but only after he put on the suit as everyone larps civ's cant and can only once a suit goes on.


lol batman and his 31 martials getting dusted by some street punk cuz batsy didnt have on his hero suit. lol, lmao

>>154598750
the ethical framework you chose to go with is utilitarianism, a very extreme version of it that that, and have explicitly stated that all moral and ethical considerations are secondary to "getting the job done" which as assumed to mean preventing more lives from being lost

the absurd outcome of this line of thinking is that, if only the net outcome of human life matters, you can kill 1 as long as you save 100
then you end up essentially supporting a police state thats willing to kill any number of people so long as many more are saved on the spreadsheet

>villain supporters continue to shit post and troll how killing someone like joker who's killled hordes of civs is bad wrong and if you think so you're worse than hitler and stalin and satan!


lol, lmao some of you autisms are so fixated on your settings ot getting called out you're havy spergtisms over criminals in fake comics that arent real and sperging as if it's legit.


lol, lmao make fun of the spergtisms getting big mad over this.

>>154598738
>>154598763
>>154598772
>>154598777
cucky cuck cuck and his villains can killl and you cant mindset.
?*listens to the comical noises of them sucking off villains and writers bad writing and larping "omfg so good this writing" and more suck noises*

>>154598739
>What kind of black and white shit is that
its rooted in kantian ethics, murder isnt suddenly good because you murdered someone bad
its the basis for modern society

>>154598777
>you end up essentially supporting a police state thats willing to kill any number of people so long as many more are saved on the spreadsheet
That's an enormous reach there, bud. Again, we're talking about vigilantes.

>>154598807
>That's an enormous reach there,
thats the logical outcome of choosing to value actions solely on the balance of saved/lost over any other moral consideration

>>154598799
Retard

Even Christianity doesn't have a no kill rule. Killing in self defense and the defense of others is A-OK.

>>154598816
Pretentious

>>154598820
>Killing in self defense and the defense of others is A-OK.
they dont consider it morally good, it is at best considered a venial sin that can be overlooked by confession
they absolutely stress that it must be a last resort, ie they were shooting at you so you shot back at them

but if you subdued your enemy without killing them, then it is entirely and totally morally wrong to kill them
this includes any form of death penalty or summary execution

Basically, the only real way to be a superhero with a no-kill code is to not do fucking anything with your powers and let the rest of humanity fend for itself. Once you start meddling in the affairs of others, sooner or later you're going to have to make that hard choice.

>>154596666
James Bond has a killing loicense to be fair, Satan

>>154598886
or just be a good samaritan and stop threats to humanity as they come out
what humans actually do to the threats they stop is their responsibility and not yours

>>154598720
Republicans

>>154598902
And then the humans start demanding more and more from you, and then they're crying out for you to execute that psycho murderer because he never stays locked up long enough to be properly tried and sentenced. It's a "Give a Mouse a Cookie trap.

>>154598819
>goes to name calling and doesnt actually have a retort
thanks for proving my point dog dumb retard. did you have a point or just wanted to rule break by trolling outside of >>>/b/

>>154594928
Money.
Superman can't blast a hole through luthor's head from across the city
Batman can't snap jokers neck
WW can't give up the cookie to steve rogers and go full hetero housewife thus killing the the creepy feminist/lesbian power fantasy version of herself.
You can't kill evil in comics anon.
You have to keep it around to shill to retards eternally.

This is why there needs to be total resets of comics occasionally. Else you get modern comics. Where normies don't matter and it's all about the peoople in skintight costumes beating up other people and the life and death of the average unpowered person becomes nothing but multiple fridging moments they can ignore.
The desicration of human life and flippancy with which it's treated is an evil and poison that flows throughout modern comics that can never be fully accepted unless it's horror movie cartoon violence like deadpool.
Else they feel like cold unfeeling monsters and demigods who stand above and judge who should live or die.
This is also as I think about it the root of the evil superman stories.

>>154594928
There are several heroes that are willing to kill.

>>154599689
thor, iron man, and captain america have all killed foes in their own comics
though they didnt in the avengers due to the avengers charter actually prohibiting them from doing so to prevent any international incident but granting them the legal ability to detain foes in any country

but marvel heroes are also acknowledged to be flawed anti-heroes at the best of times so their willingness to resort to lethal force, justified or not, comes with the territory of being fallible humans

>>154599734
I think Aquaman and Wonder Woman have killed as well

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Even Police Officers are allowed to shoot to kill to protect themselves and Civilians.

>>154594928
If you kill your villains off, you can't use them anymore unless you pull some bad writing shenanigans of bringing them back or they were not dead in the first place. But seeing how almost all modern comics are dreck already, there really isn't a reason not to.

>>154599782
wonder woman started killing post-crisis
largely a result of that time she murked maxwell lords, which would go on to paint her character for the rest of her existence

later writers would embrace wonder woman being able to kill because it served to make her stand out more from batman and superman

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>>154598367
Joker had an entire magazine emptied into him. His popularity gives him plot armor. If he was actually killed or locked away forever with no possibility of escape, there would be no more Joker stories and people like buying those and a lot of comic creators like making them.

>>154599825
basically this
>>154597131

>>154594928
Superheroes like Superman are supposed to be lovecraftian(yes even Batman and Spidey have this power to abide by depite not being Godly themselves) in their understanding of life and logic of reality compared to normal humans and thus have more agency to perceive the actions of death and destruction more responsibly and accordindly to how a system of human or straightforward law and order works in a setting where these people are guardian gods to the human race and their trust in them depends how much our moral fairness the enforce on crime or evil threats.

Meta reason is they are children's stories puppets that can't be killers to enemies thanks to America's moral faggotry PBS style. And the popular villains have to live to keep being money makers for the series.

>>154599825
Cool story. Doesn't change the issues.

>>154595453
> Them having to fight the villain is usually just an escalation and logical end point, they have to beat the villain so the civilians will be safe, but they aren't usually out there trying to kill.

The villain is also trying to kill them and their personal livelihoods. You think heroes would understand this and have the commitment to put themselves in a person's shows to stop this from happening again and deliver the killing blow out of survival and accountability of preventing danger like this in the future.

>>154600224
They stopped being children's stories a long as fuck time ago. Even saying this confuses and upsets them and makes them go into a frothing rage.

>>154600224
stop forcing this false narrative they are gods. jesus fuck you autisms are why training data calls them gods. you subhuman autisms see mortal human batman and jerk off larping as him as your self insert going OH BAT GOD I AM SO COOL GIMME CATSLUT AND TALIA AND HARLEY! OOOOOOO *spooges*
fuck off with this god lie

>>154598709
its a good thing killing a criminal isn't murder then

>>154598886
Superheroes are firemen that getting into fights with arsonists. It doesn't work.

>>154598772
>If you can subdue and arrest someone, they aren't an active threat
wrong as fuck, even with real world regular ass human beings, let alone fuckers with radiation eyes and poison gas breath

>>154595108
spbp

>>154600657
actually, it is
you might get a lighter sentence for killing a criminal, but we are talking second degree murder instead of first
modern society pretty much runs on the assumption that everyone is protected by the law, you arent just turned into an outlaw because you committed a crime

society would be unambiguously worse if we allowed people to just kill other people because they thought they were guilty
the excuse " but what if they were actually guilty this time" cant be used as a universal claim because that would essentially allow me to kill my neighbor for not returning my copy of MGS3

>>154600741
actually its not, and only in the most cucked states where the populace is expecting to be assraped by the government all day is there the expectation that you can't shoot the guy trying to stab you with a knife or else you'll get in trouble

>>154595108
This, and it's really gay that people defend this reason, like they want comics to be bad.