People often say "The Principal and the Pauper" was the turning point for The Simpsons in terms of "bad characterization", but I have to say that "Lisa the Vegetarian" is so much worse in every regard. It's one thing for an episode to have a one-off retcon that isn't ever mentioned again, but it's another for an episode to completely change a character's personality for the worse.
>>154601034What is the retcon? The QuickE Mart having a roof garden?
>>154601057Leftists pretend to not understand to make discourse impossible
>>154601057Principal Steamed Hams was a delinquent who was trained under the "real" Seymour Skinner. Principal Steamed Hams had to break the news to Skinners' mom that he's presumed dead, but he was too pussy to tell her that he... became Skinner.
>>154601070 >I think it's more that she was always a know-it-all, holier-than-thou twat. Nothing that came out of her mouth changed, just what went into it. She's like the opposite of you in that regard. You still suck trucker dicks like you always have but after 2016, you make sure that they wear red hats first.
>>154601034That's not what a retcon is and her personality really didn't change.
>>154601538>her personality really didn't changeI have my doubts, because Greer kicked things into overdrive once he guest-starred.
>>154601583You can have all the doubts you want. Doesn't make out any less true that literally nothing about her changed other than her diet.
>>154601616And her religion, don't forget her religion. Personally I think Lisa became a lot more self-righteous after Vegetarian.
>>154601637>a lot more self-righteousTHOU SHALL NOT STEAL! That was all the way back in season 2. Again: she's always been a know-it-all, holier-than-thou twat. I can't remember any S1 instances.
>>154602084>Again: she's always been a know-it-all, holier-than-thou twat.You have a point, she was anti-piracy because she was convinced you'd go to hell for stealing of any kind. (Not even Marge wanted to deal with that shit KEK.)
Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy was even worse and I think it was earlier than this.
>>154602201To be fair, Malibu Stacy is an accurate representation of Lisa.
>>154602201Exactly. Her going vegetarian was simply the natural progression of her personality type. I like when she actually behaves like an 8 year old but when she does this college student shit or old lady shit or any other shit that an 8 year old wouldn't do, she blows.
>>154602228Fuck, I hate when you make me realize Lisa was always a terrible character. She was doing that old lady shit as far back as season 3.
>Everyone knows you can be as wrong or as right as you want as long as you're a submissive doormat about it.You niggers probably think the problem with socialists is that they're "preachy and smug" rather than that they're advocating for the apocalypse and destitution of the human race.
most of Lisa's faggotry was due to James L. Brooks and Al Jean i think
>>154602343You're dumb.>>154602255I'm not going that far but I just wish she acted like a regular 8 year old. I'm the father of an 8 year old boy. He's not like a lot of other kids his age but only in his interests (not many kids his age rock climb and have no interest for screens) but other than that, he's a normal fucking kid. ffs, he only stopped laughing at the weird butt last year, way later than a kid should.But Lisa? She's mostly a middle aged childless cat lady with brief (ever so fucking brief) moments of age-appropriate behaviour and interests
>>154601034Boomers worship of the Beetles is so annoying
>>154602469irl children aren't funny or interesting to write about
>>154602451Checked some writers; George Meyer wrote "Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington", Bill Oakley & Josh Weinstein wrote "Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy", and David S. Cohen wrote "Lisa the Vegetarian.">>154602469Ironically, I've always felt the times Lisa acted the most like a kid was where she was in the wrong. "The Secret War of Lisa Simpson" was one of the rarer episodes where she gets whats coming to her.
>>154601034Agreed. Lisa becoming a vegetarian just so the writers can get a shitty Beetle on their show led the character down the wrong path.
>>154602502Exactly my point. The Simpsons were especially lousy with guest stars around this time, and they'd ruin any episode they were in.
>>154602502It was the begging of the end
>>154602498That's true. But Bart is the typical mischievous boy taken to eleven. And Lisa was originally just female Bart. >>154602499I like when she's horse crazy or obsessed with a boyband guy, or gossiping with Homer about a boy she likes in the other class or when she was trolling Bart for selling his soul or any of the other childish shit she does. And y'know what? Those are the times she's happiest.She's either yelling, depressing or a happy kid. And I like her best when she's a happy kid.
>>154601034
>>154602540>I like when she's horse crazyOMG yes! Sometimes I forget that she tends to act like a little girl. Even Bart got his own giant pet episode, so it's nice they had equal footing.
>>154602540This is why the Bob's Burgers kids are the best kids in animated television: they're actual kids.
>>154601034'Lisa the Vegetarian' gets a pass because, even if the characterization stuck, she still had to admit that she went too far with sabotaging Homer's barbecue and apologized for it. Not like later episodes which bend over backwards to keep Lisa in the right.
you could always tell which writers had siblings growing up or were parents versus those who didn't. Scully and Jean clearly understood how kids operate a lot better than someone like John Swartzwelder did.
>>154602609>SwartzwelderHe wrote the sneed episode, so that makes up for it.
lisa should get more scenes like the football one where she gets humbled
>>154602619>it's actually written by Ian Maxtone-GrahamWhy must I make an ass of myself? I almost thought that was a Swartzwelder episode.
>>154602530When was the "Krusty Kome Back" episode in relation to this? THAT'S when the writers were sucking their own dicks about how many famous people they could get on their TV show. The episode is a pretty stupid story that's just a vehicle for that.
I remember watching the episode where Bart gets a new teacher and Lisa becomes friends with an octopus, when she decides to release it she sees a small shark and was like "well it's nature..." before punching it and chucking it far away from the shark and even got called out for that. I didn't think the modern writers had it in them to still make her do stuff like that
>>154601637What's funny, I just watched the episode where Bart gets Edna's diary from Flanders' yard sale and thinks the diary is talking about him instead of Mrs K's cat so he starts doing well in school because "she believed in" him. She'd already been dead a short bit at this point. Later in the episode, Lisa "struggles" with telling him the truth or letting him live this feel-good falsehood.My wife watched it with me. She's Hindu (shut up). According to her, Buddhists have the same view of being truthful in this sort of situation as Hindus would: that ahimsa (non-harm) is more important than telling Bart the truth. Lisa knew telling him would hurt him but she did it anyway. She's a fake, white people Buddhist.
>>154602682the kids act a lot more like kids since Matt Selman took over from Jean
>>154602682>far away from the sharkI meant the octopus
James L. Brooks was largely responsible for developing Lisa's character in Season 1 and she had really had no personality at first except for being Bart's sidekick.
>>154602746>she had really had no personality at first except for being Bart's sidekickthat's why she was FAR more likable
>>154601034What is it with vegetarians? They won't even pretend to eat meat in a fucking cartoon. I read that Casey Cassem tried really hard to get Shaggy go veggie too.
>>154602806also lol Yeardley Smith said she tried going vegetarian but gave up after a short while, she couldn't hack it
>>154602780You probably like HFG in Regular ShowYou probably say "better be boring than offensive"
>>154603447Cope
