Do people actually read any stories with Red Hood Jason Tood or did they just watch that one 2010 animated movie with him and call it a day?
>>154613572The initial RHatO understandably put people off because of Starfire's handling, plus the All Blade thing later, once that fizzled it gained a decent following, on /co/ at least.
>>154613572I do both. Winick is the only good Red Hood Jason writer so far.
>>154613572Yeah because they always give him gay redesigns which I refuse to support
yea I like red hood and the outlaws a lot especially how horny starfire was. Its a very fun book. It doesnt really go anywhere though.
>>154613784They should’ve used Blackfire instead
>>154613572Comic stories?NOPEFanfiction where Jason is a pass around party bottom?YEP
One of the best modern Jason books but no one ever talks about it.
>>154613817lol nah
>>154614876Wasn't this the comic where everyone from Amanda Waller to Harvey Dent knew that Red Hood was Jason Todd?
>>154613572Based Hood
>>154614876This looks stupid.
>>154613705>Winick is the only good Red Hood Jason writer so far.Winick is the reason why Jason's character has been all over the place for the last twenty years. It's like he intentionally sabotaged the character.
>>154613572I liked when he teamed up with Bizarro and Artemis then stopped caring when they weren't hanging out anymore
>>154613572I read it all until he got a costume change that gave him a crowbar like the one that killed him...But you are correct it started with the movie.
No, there's a reason he was killed by Batman fans.
>>154617370Same. I think Dexter S was secretly writing that run as well as drawing it. It's a shame DC won't let someone that actually loves the characters use them especially someone like him who's shown he really really likes working with them and has asked for it
>>154613644>>154613784>>154617370Who are you kidding, RHATO was absolutely awful.
El Rhato
>>154613705Winick is SHIT.
>>154617330Nah, the writers who came after him did.
>>154619037Wrong.
>>154616195Yes, but they have a job to do so they don't really care about that.>>154617296It's Jason leading a team of zombies, of course it's kinda stupid, but I also think it's fun.There's also some of the actual best writing and interactions modern Jason has had, in a story that just goes off the rail more and more, it really isn't as straightforward as you might think right away.His dynamic with Harvey is probably the highlight of the book, they're characters with very similar backgrounds when you think about it, and they make a genuinely great duo.
>>154620251I prefer Jason in The Man Who Stopped Laughing. TFZ’s Jason is just a punching bag.
>>154620125>>154620127You're not fooling anyone. Dude has never written a good run ever at DC.
>>154620652Not every writer is good at writing everything. Winick’s style just isn’t a great match for most DC characters. Jason is the only exception.
>>154620861>Jason is the only exception.Jason is the absolute worst of his work because his negative effects are ongoing twenty years after Winick wrote UTH.
>>154620432>The Man Who Stopped Laughing.That's a good one too, but I liked TFZ better for the bigger focus on Jason.>TFZ’s Jason is just a punching bag.A punching bag that gets punch back and outsmart the bad guys, Jason always bounced back.
>>154620954DC has spent the last 20 years making writers ignore UTH. Everyone just writes their own random shit with Jason that has nothing to do with Winick’s stories.
>>154617296It is, his entire costume was fucking stupid in that run. His design was peak in Knight.
>>154621230>Everyone just writes their own random shit with Jason that has nothing to do with Winick’s stories.What stories? What fucking stories you moron?
>>154621347Can you just google it?
>>154621401Fuck off with your bullshit.
>>154621558I’m just saying, why don’t you search for yourself? It’s not that hard.
>>154621619Dumbass, all he had was UTH and TLD both of which were terrible stories.>buh muh Green ArrowI'm straight, I don't read that gay shit.
Jason went to shit with the redemption arc. He was better as a villain.
>>154621630>I'm straight, I don't read that gay shit.Really? That’s your excuse? I read everything about Jason, no matter how bad it is, so I can explain why it’s bad. If you’re going to criticize something, you should at least know what you’re talking about.
Lobdell's RHATO is overhated. It's way better than any of Dick's stuff post new 52, except MAYBE Grayson.
>>154621884Emphasis on MAYBE.
>>154613572I read most things with him in it
>>154613572> Do most people engage with comics or do they only stick to other media adaptationsIt's a mystery, anon.>>154613705I tried to do both, but DC burned all my goodwill with their retarded writing. I still like jaybin but the rest can rot and die.>>154614876Most decent and best concept DC had for him since he died despite the glaring flaws and missed opportunities.
>>154620432>The Man Who Stopped Laughing.Hard pass. I don't care about epic jonkler.
>>154621884The bar’s pretty low, don’t you think?
>>154613572A little of column A, a little of column B...
>>154613572I like him alright.
>>154613817Agreed. A lot of people hated how sexualized and out of character Starfire was. If they had used Blackfire it would've gone over way better.
As much as I'm probably gonna get shit on for having this opinion, I legit loved Lobdell's run. It know what it was and was unafraidThat being said, I really didn't care for Korrie's portrayal as a "intergalactic bimbo with a heart of gold", but to each their own
>>154626127I feel Didio knew if he couldn't kill off Dick he could get Lobdell to humiliate him.
>>154621875> If you’re going to criticize something, you should at least know what you’re talking about.I do know what I’m talking about. You don’t need to read Winick’s GA to know UTH and TLD are terribly written stories.
>>154626897It didn’t know shit. It was only unafraid because Lobdell was too clueless to realize how bad it was.>>154627512Actually, Didio was planning to kill Dick and replace him with Jason in 5G. It feels more like he wanted Jason and Tim to take everything Dick had.
>>154627774> It was only unafraid because Lobdell was too clueless to realize how bad it was.Both Jim Lee and Dan DiDio vouched for Bob Harras (Lee and Harras are the comic book version of Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff, dude did his bro a solid), who in turned for vouched for Lobdel. This industry rewards mediocrity.
>>154627758>You don’t need to read Winick’s GA to know UTHCome on, it’s only three issues.>TLD are terribly written stories.Why? Because Jason fucked a hot Asian milf? I thought you said you were straight.
>>154628115Because TLD is a pointless story.
>>154627774>in 5G.Wasn't that in post-crisis? I don't remember any notable "leak" about 5G aside from how Jason was supposed to be Leviathan and how Damian was supposed to turn into a villain. >he wanted Jason and Tim to take everything Dick had.More like he wanted to get rid of the character who is this in-between Robin and Batman AND is too clean and proper for his taste. So everything Jason wasn't and wouldn't have been because Didio "liked" Jason as an antagonist that allowed him to milk the dead robin/my failure TM narrative. I bet Nightwing would have gone full outlaw if Didio had gotten his wish.
>>154628726>Jason in TLD which is set before UTRH“Oh no, they’re going to false flag bomb London and blame on Arab Muslims, I better stop them!”>Jason in UTRH when Bludhaven gets fucking nuked“Lol, lmao; I hope Dick was there!”Did Winick not read his own story?
>>154613572>did they just watch that one 2010 animated movie with him and call it a day?I mean, I played Arkham Knight as well. Honestly I just don't really care about Red Hood, I think the concept is cool and it works as its own thing, but I don't think it fits particularly well when merged into the larger Batman family. But I also acknowledge that I might just feel that way because I haven't read a lot of the character.
>>154628726Hey, hey, hey.... It let Winick write Jason fucking Bruce's baby's momma.You know that's hitting some weird fetish off his.
>>154613572they just masturbate to abuse fetish fanfics and Phausto
>>154613572They watch the movie, and that's it.
>>154621263Nice red mask on this one.
>>154628923>Wasn’t that in post-crisis?After Didio got fired, DC reworked 5G into Future State.>Didio "liked" JasonHe didn’t care about Jason or Tim at all. He just wanted Dick gone. He saw them as tools to get rid of Dick, nothing more. The only character he really liked was Barbara.
>>154628726It explored Jason’s character, showed his development, and had some cool moments.>>154630484Jason was just trying to piss Bruce off.
>>154634373>It explored Jason’s character, showed his development, and had some cool moments.Anon, Winick is such a terrible writer that he made the first story set in the future make the prequel completely useless while also making UTRH Jason more unhinged and contrived. So in TLD, Jason frees a bunch of children who were obviously going to be sold as sex slaves... yet in UTRH, he's okay with taking cuts from pimps who literally treat women as sex slaves? In TLD, Jason is trying to save London from a false flag operation because it will kill a lot of people and falsely blame Arabs as the perpetrators... yet in UTRH Jason is absolutely cool with turning Gotham City into his own personal playground as he has open gunfights in the streets and creates a lot of destruction, with no care for people getting caught in the crossfire (per Winick's words) and laughing as hundreds of thouands die across the harbor in a terrorist attack.It makes no fucking sense.
>>154634493You’re just looking at what happened without considering the small but important details that change the context, so your whole argument is just based on your own bias.
>>154634732It’s funny because ignoring context is a classic Judd move.
>>154635033You’re the one ignoring the context. No matter what, those pimps still had to pay Jason to operate in his territory or for protection. That’s just how the criminal world works.
>>154634142>Future State.Sure. I still have no idea what anon was referencing if he's not mixing up things.>>154634373>It exploredNta. It only exists to explore the most stupid question UTH opened and ignored. Aka, why didn't Bruce notice Jason dug himself. It "focuses" more on Jason, but the characterization is the same as in UTH. "Bad boy with daddy issues". There is no development outside of Jason regaining consciousness, just a few cool moment with a character that had been already completely overhauled by UTH.
Should Jason be motorcycle fetish or /k/ tacticool?
>>154623946The last time the bar wasn't buried in the dirt, zoomers were too young to drive.
>>154635868>why didn't Bruce notice Jason dug himself.Because the gardener filled the hole back in, and the rain covered up the signs that Jason had dug himself out.>There is no development outside of Jason regaining consciousnessThe whole story is basically a training arc for Jason. We see him make mistakes, learn from them, and improve. That’s why he’s so well prepared by the time he becomes Red Hood.>>154636131Neither. He should be a /lit/ chad.
>>154613572It's just that film. Realistically, Jason works best as a villain, but pearl clutching bleeding hearts throw a tantrum over that, so DC is scared to go all the way.
>>154617296>nofunallowed.jpg
Is this the most cursed pairing?
>>154636405>becauseI wasn't asking? LD exists and I've read it. My point stands; a training arc (character gets stronger) isn't a development. Winnick Jason is a character whose personality and motive revolve around his newfound obsession (Bruce's love). Something that isn't explored but presented as a "fact". That never evolves or changes, even by the end of UTH.
>>154635299Are you retarded? That's literally what that anon said and why they have a problem with Winnick's characterization.
>>154636561It’s not just about him getting stronger. After the Lazarus pit healed him, Jason was filled with anger and nearly killed Bruce, but he stopped himself at the last moment. Instead of immediately acting on his rage, he went on a journey to find a new purpose and develop his own ideology.
>>154626127Isn't Starfire just pure sex all the time?
>>154613644>>154617579RHaTO was super popular on here at the time. I read it every time it came out on here. Starfire was hot and everyone thought so too. stop making up your own head cannon.
>>154626127>A lot of people hated how sexualized and out of character Starfire was.maybe tumblr or SRS on reddit at the time lmao but nobody here.
>trying to remove the sex appeal from Starfire or RavenWho would ever make such a blatant mistake
>>154637087Starfire isn’t hot.
>>154637026>develop his own ideology.Stop. We didn't read the same LD. Jason didn't kill Bruce because "he wouldn't know its me", then came back with UTH to make a big dramatic reveal. It's a very contrived and nonsensical plot, not a character piece.
Any recommendations? I don't hear many people talk about his comics outside his actual return and Hush.
>>154637924Literally Clayface. You know, Hush isn't good, but it's amazing how they managed to make the comic even more stupid with that retcon.
>>154637966I wonder what made them say Hush wasn't Jason. I think they made the movie where the Riddler was everything since they knew having the most obvious guy do it was stupid
>>154626127Blackfire would have solved nothing. Dick and Titanfags would have still larped as sjw to cry about Roy and Blackfire. People who wanted to read about Jason, didn't want to read a Titans book and people who wanted a Titans book with their favorite has-beens didn't want to read about Jason. That all there was to this bullshit.
>>154637924I find it difficult to recommend anything with him unless you want mindless slop or more of him as a stupid strawman because that's what DC does and how they like him. The Last Crusade is the only modern story featuring Jason that I enjoyed, but it's Jaybin and not Red Hood.
>>154637094/co/ was constantly hating on Lobdell in the New 52. The Lobdell apologists didn't start up till about a year in, once he'd started to course correct (Starfire as this badass space commander, Roy with more than two brain cells, etc.).I don't think there are any archives of /co/ in 2011, but desuarchive has mid-2012.https://desuarchive.org/co/search/text/lobdell%20titans/start/2012-01-01/end/2012-12-31/
>>154637966If I remember well it was two clayfaces? and one of them was a new version
>>154638139What about older comics?
The animated movie is the only good post-resurrection story. Bringing back dead characters is a mistake that does long-term damage to the setting unless you immediately kill them off again.
>>154637842>Jason didn't kill Bruce because "he wouldn't know its me"He literally says he wants to kill Bruce with his own hands, but by the end of the story, he realizes what he truly wants is for Bruce to kill the Joker. That’s obviously character development.
>>154638221Just collect the first three volumes of DC’s Finest Post-Crisis Batman.
>>154638253Jason’s death did more harm to the setting than him harming him.
>>154637924I will always recommend the appearance in Morrison's Batman and Robin. It's a deconstruction off the "cool" killer Winick wrote.It's a deconstruction/metacommentary on Jason Todd as a character and where the character was at that point in the late 00s.Literal redheaded stepchildSet up as a dark mirror to DickBatsTrying to continue his "Better than Batman" crusade on crimeObsessed with marketing and brandingHis whole revenge scheme against Dick is just a phone pollYou'll see people hate but it's pearls before swine.
>>154638476*than him returning did
>>154638482It’s still stupid because Winick’s take to begin with was stupid and childish.
>>154638512If it had better art it'd be a classic.
watching the movie and ignoring the rest is actually the correct approach to this character
>>154639081But the movie also sucks.
>>154639115It's well-paced and hits a lot of good emotional beats. Winick did a pretty good job of hammering his awkward first attempt into a better story.
>>154617579nah youre just bitter and contrarian
This thread feels like one poster attempting to draw it by being a contrarian.
>>154638221With Jason, it's just his short run as Robin. Some people love his pre-crisis stuff. It's campier and I'm not super knowledgeable about it. The best post-crisis has to offer with him are in his introduction (Batman #408-#413 - annual #12). Then Starlin happens, and the best he has to offer is Batman The Cult and Batman #424 (the diplomat's son).
>>154638328Same shit. > character development It's contrived writing to bait and switch the reader. It doesn't take a genius to understand writing about how Jason confronts Joker and Bruce in UTH sequel is a stupid idea. Not only is it a rehash of UTH, but if anything meaningful happens here, then UTH becomes obsolete or retconned. So Jason changes his mind for some flimsy reasons at the last minute and decides killing X and Y like that is not personal enough. It's subpar writing, not character development. Unless you're Winnick and think Jason being a flimsy hypocrite is deep and his character.
>>154639081> Jason for the dummiesTaking UTRH as Jason's bible or origin story is not correct or an approach.
>>154636131I prefer Red Hood as a pointed mix of trained by Batman but acts as a criminal.I think the "motorcycle fetish" does a good job of concealing how prepared he is.Vice versa he may look cool and intimidating with his armor and weapons hanging out, but he loses his element of surprise.
>>154637087>I read it every time it came out on here. >Starfire was hot and everyone thought so too. stop making up your own head cannon.I gave the benefit of the doubt since I figured it was just some buzzword fad, but I guess it's true people are trying to "LARP" about everything now.https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/70924581/https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/68538943/https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/98105757/
>>154640502And desuarchive stops in 2012, so it doesn't have the pure hate we gave it those first few months
>>154636131Motorcycle fetish Jason is cool as FUCK and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
>>154636131The closer to Arkham Knight, the better.
>>154639821Jason doesn’t even confront Batman face to face, and he has zero meaningful interaction with the Joker. More importantly, Lost Days isn’t about those confrontations. It’s about how Jason becomes the Red Hood.>It's subpar writingHow so? A character having internal conflict is pretty normal.
>>154636489 I like it, they’re both victims of Joker in a way. It’s why stuff like Man who stopped laughing and Kill Joker has them interact.
>>154641029>face to faceDon't put words into people mouth if you want to argue in good faith. >how so?Already explained that. Try harder.>internal conflict = not subpar writingDepend of the conflict and depend of the execution.
Are they a good pairing?
>>154642607its a funny pairing, good depends on how they're written but its not any worse conceptually then any of his other "just given him the other robins supporting cast" pairings
>>154642970Nope.Jason belongs with Raven.
>>154642607No, this is a terrible ship because its surface level >uwu they're both hate their dads and are edgy and are outsidersshipping slop.
>>154643044At least Jason has interacted with Rose.I don't think Jason and Raven have ever interacted on-panel.
>>154642607I like it in concept, DC has yet to sell me on it because they don't really dare do anything that actually focuses on their relationship, it's always a side thing.I'd like to see them in a book of their own so we could actually see a story about them working together.
>Decade after RHatO Rebirth came out >DC still won’t let Dexter S do his Red Ronin elseworldWhat is DC afraid of?
>>154644148Why does Dexter Onionman have such a hard on for a comic as terrible as RHATO?
>>154644148DC doesn't want to do that type of direction with Jason anymore.>>154644168Like many Jason Todd fans, he really likes the version of the character that exists in his head.
>>154644183>DC doesn't want to do that type of direction with Jason anymore.What do you mean? Do you remember The Hill? Or the one issue solo run? Or the upcoming Titans? The editorial is enfatuated with the idea of teaming Jason up with C/D listers.
>>154613572I thought he was a DCAU original character? What else is he from
>>154642607For the few true Rose fans, it's terrible.For the casuals who think she's just Deathstroke with tits -- I get it.She's been unrecognizable since Prieststroke ended.
>>154643044expect that onethat one is worse then all of give jasons his brothers supporting cast
>>154644374Can you type that again but in actual English? Because I don't think I understand what you mean.
>>154643394>Rose hates her dad because he's a mass murdering psycho>Jason hates his "dad" because he won't let him be a mass murdering psychoIt's even dumber than that, for the same reasons you gave. Only retards think it makes sense.
>>154644844>Only retards think it makes sense.Hey. HEY. Joshua Williamson isn't just a retard. He's a talentless retard.
>>154639433I have to buy The Cult physically. I'll take note of 424.
>>154639433>Some people love his pre-crisis stuff.Those people are nuts.
>>154641300>Don't put words into people mouth if you want to argue in good faith.Oh, sorry. I was just trying to expand on my point, not put words in your mouth. Jason doesn’t really confront Batman in Lost Days. Bruce doesn’t even know Jason is there, and Jason has no meaningful interaction with the Joker.>Already explained that. Try harder.No, you didn’t. You just called Jason a flimsy hypocrite when the truth is he was just conflicted.>Depend of the conflict and depend of the execution.Then I would argue it’s actually good writing because I don’t see anything wrong with the conflict or its execution. Jason’s conflicting feelings toward Bruce are the point of the story.
>>154646894Again, same shit. He tries to kill them before backpedaling because it's not personal enough when they don't realize it's him. It's flimsy. >he was just conflicted.>the point of the story.What point? Conflicted about what? Killing Bruce and Joker or killing them too easily? His daddy issues? Winnick went with the most fake and pointless shits when he overhauled the character. You're incapable of argumenting anything.> I don’t see anything wrong with a writing turning an existing character into an OC That's retarded. You better be a bot.
>>154647960I honestly wonder if you actually read the comic.>He tries to kill them before backpedaling because it's not personal enough when they don't realize it's him.That’s just the excuse he gives Talia when she asks why he didn’t kill Bruce, and it’s obviously not the whole truth. Just like when he tells her he’s fine after seeing the picture of Bruce and Tim, or when he says he didn’t kill Joker because he screwed up.>What point? Conflicted about what?Basically, he hates Bruce for letting the Joker live, but he still cares about him as a father figure. That’s the conflict. That’s why he couldn’t bring himself to kill Bruce, even though he was angry enough to nearly do it. Not because of what you said. Hell, if that were really the reason, Jason could’ve just taken off his mask and shown Joker who he was. The point is that he eventually realizes this isn’t just about him and Joker or him and Bruce. It’s about all three of them. That’s why he comes up with the plan to make Bruce kill the Joker.
>>154648445And I'm convinced you're an autist..>he hates Bruce for letting the Joker live, but he still cares about him as a father figureIt's a made-up and weak plot that disregards everything that led Jason to this fate. That's what this is all about. Eat your retroactive history and tell don't show narrative if you like it, but don't act like it cannot be a problem.>the three of themNo such thing. They were four, and now Jason is just stuck in the middle of two retards that only deserve each other.
>>154613572Probably my top favorite Jason Todd's alternative costume design from Battle of the Cowl.
>>154648979For me, it's Arkham Knight.Something about Tacticool Jason does it for me.
>>154642607What do their dads think about their relationship?
>>154648979peak tony daniel art.
>>154649254I'm sure they hate it and think they're a bad influence on each other.
So how long do you think Jason will stay on the Teen Titans book? I give it 12 issues.
>tfw you realize Bruce beat him in UtRH because Jason swung into the wrong windowmakes me lole a bit.
>>154617565>>154617370That was Geoff Johns strongarming Lobdell.
>>154654102If so, props, gimmicky as it seem it's a good dynamic.On a 4th wall level it's obvious they're dark mirrors of their predecessors, but in-universe it managed to add up why the three who often illicit friction or fear in their circle would be willing and eager to work together to operate how they normally would be reprimanded for.So despite parodying the trinity their team helped the trio gain independence in a way.Jason going back to Batfam hasn't done him any favors as he can neither achieve nor misbehave too much that would reflect negatively on them, Bizarros are a background curiosity again even as this Super Family is being paraded around and Tom King's direction for Wonder Woman's world is a hair away from Amazons Attack in terms of reception.
>>154654312During the Rebirth relaunch, Geoff Johns took the lead in pitching and approving new comic book series and miniseries as the creative head of the initiative. He consistently pushed for the gradual return of the pre-New 52 canon, even in the face of resistance from numerous editors and writers.With Red Hood, Johns told Lobdell that Jason’s New 52 backstory, with all the magic and other changes, was over-the-top and not what fans wanted. He pitched the “bad trinity” team-up, gave each character refreshed backstories (restoring Jason’s pre-New 52 origin), and planned out the first few issues. But after Johns was eventually canceled, faced backlash over WW84’s failure, and lost influence, Lobdell seized the chance to scrap Johns’s plans and bring back all the New 52 elements, even though readers had been enjoying the new direction. That's why Bizarro and Artemis were taken off the book. Lobdell disliked the pair.
>>154654312>If so, props, gimmicky as it seem it's a good dynamic.It’s not though. Did everyone’s IQ drop and just accept garbage runs now? RHATO was ALWAYS garbage.
I liked the one where Artemis was his gf and Bizarro was their adopted son
>>154654560Your ad hominem and capslock make quite a compelling argument.
>>154654587Anon, when I read Batman adjacent comics that are not crossover slop like WG or Justice League, I expect Batman adjacent stories. Street level adventures with some grit thrown in. RHATO pre and post-Rebirth is not that. It’s just Jason plus two nobodies that take up space that could have been better used on Jason and characters people actually cared about like Dick or Cass or Babs or Tim.
>>154654704Don’t forget that Lobdell changed his origin so he was now trained by Cro-Magnon immortal monks from an ancient, secret magical society of invincible assassins tasked with hunting alien abominations. Naturally, Jason, despite only a year of training, is somehow their best assassin and the chosen hero meant to save Earth from these evil creatures, which may or may not be connected to Trigon.Oh, and of course he knows magic, but not just any magic, blood magic!
>>154652430Until he plaps Raven
>>154654789Someone didn’t stop this man and he held onto Jason for about the same time as Geoff Johns did to Green Lantern and tanked Jason as much as Winick did.
>>154654476You're omitting another factor. Being a low-priority book, Rhato, got derailed by Batman events as usual. Batman going over the edge, beating Jason up, and breaking the team apart is a consequence of the Bat-Cat wedding ending in a failure. Jason was also supposed to take a main role in Bendis' Leviathan event right after that, and Artemis went back to WW. That may have motivated DC to keep him solo.>Lobdell disliked the pair.I find it hard to believe he hated Bizarro when the first tier of Rhato focused on him.
>>154654704>like Dick or Cass or Babs or Tim.So Jason can tell them to fuck off or hit a big rock? Asking because if I wanted to read some flavor of wholesome Batfamily, I'd read WFA or Tumblr.
>>154617491They really did that? Kek someone needs to put a leash on these comic writers
>>154655172It's a weird angle, Jason clarifies that he wasn't killed by a crowbar but the explosion from trying to persevere through that beating for his mother, which is sensible even if minutia.He also insists something along the lines of taking back his power by using the symbol of his defeat.Which sounds as sensible as Batman changing his theme to Gatman.
>>154655036>I find it hard to believe he hated Bizarro when the first tier of Rhato focused on him.That's because Johns was holding his hand.
>>154655114>So Jason can tell them to fuck off or hit a big rock? Having Tim or Cass show on RHATO would draw more attention than a nobody like Artemis or Bizarro and would serve Jason better, considering the New 52 never went in-depth on how Jason is suddenly a member of the family again. >Asking because if I wanted to read some flavor of wholesome Batfamily, I'd read WFA or Tumblr.Having Jason and those characters in the same comic would suddenly make it WFA? Are you retarded?
RHATO sucks
>>154653981I never noticed that.That's kinda hilarious, actually.
>>154654312>So despite parodying the trinity their team helped the trio gain independence in a way.But did they really? At the end of the day, it was just an edgy kids club.
>>154655390We don’t want attention from Tim or Cass fans. And no, they wouldn’t serve Jason better. The writer would dumb Jason down to shoehorn Tim in while also making him weaker to prop up Cass. Those one-trick ponies are no better for Jason than those nobodies.
>>154658364>Those one-trick ponies are no better for Jason than those nobodies.Says who? Having Jason associate with D-listers like Artemis and Bizarro makes Jason look shittier by comparison.
It says a lot about RHATO that if you decanonized it today, Jason wouldn’t feel it tomorrow. That’s how useless it was.
>>154658761Yeah, and having Jason team up with characters who can’t kill isn’t good for him either. My point is that both options are bad for Jason, just in different ways.
>>154613741Agreed. They nailed it with his first design and keep fucking it up.Though I'll admit I like the brown jacket better.
>>154626127>A lot of people hated how sexualized and out of character Starfire was>how sexualized Starfire wasShe was literally modelled after a brazilian dancing girl. She has always been extremely sexualized.
>>154658903>Yeah, and having Jason team up with characters who can’t kill isn’t good for him either. Making Jason into a mass murder who can’t even kill his own murderer was a stupid idea to begin with, do you’re wrong there.>My point is that both options are bad for Jason, just in different ways.Tim and Cass draw attention, Artemis and Bizarro scare away attention and kill Jason’s star power. They are both the same.
>>154659033People took issue with Jason bragging about fucking her, joking about the size of her tits, her amnesia, and how she tells Roy that sex means nothing so they should do it
>>154659103That was more the problem with going max slutfire rather than her being sexy, I'd say. Because they were pushing weird hippy free love Starfire a lot with nu52.
Why does it never get brought up that Jason died with his mother, whom sold him out to the Joker?
>>154659202because then they couldnt blame the teenager for causing his own deathor they just forgot her being there like how they forgot the main hook of the story being joker became an iranian ambassador or it was actually superman who stopped batman from killing the joker
I enjoyed Rebirth RHatO. It's the only thing Lobdell ever wrote that I wouldn't call steaming dogshit. I suppose every dog has its day.
>>154659202Lobdell wrote a dubiously canon back-up story where Joker orchestrated Jason’s entire life, Batman and Leslie finding him, him finding out about his mother, and then his death.
>>154655390>draw more attentionNot necessarily a good thing.>serve Jason betterNot necessarily.>Are you retarded?Are you? I specifically mentioned "wholesome family".
>>154659037>Making Jason into a mass murder who can’t even kill his own murderer was a stupid idea to begin withKilling Joker wouldn’t have satisfied him.>kill Jason’s star powerNah, he still has that star power. His fans are just really tired of DC.
>>1546592021) Cannot blame Jason for his own death or going after Jonkler.2) Gotta focus on Jason and the literal who that made that plot possible when you can just ignore all that and focus on Batman and Jonkler. >>154659508Joker orchestrating everything and Talia noticing Jason "dark potential" before his death to hammer in that Red Hood was "fated" was either on Snyder or Geoff.
