ITT: biggest hack creators in /co/
>>154644704How is Groening a hack?
>>154644707>Wasn't actually a writer during the best episodes>Hated the cartoony art (the modern episodes are visually closer to his vision for how the show should look)>Killed adult animation forever Several reasons
>>154644707He never truly created his own work past the ullman iteration of The Simps.I still believe David X Cohen should have gotten a proper co creator credit for Futurama same with Josh Weinstein for Disenchantment
>>154644707he sits in a dark room while wearing a v for vendetta mask and black hoodie, and his monitors are filled with green matrix letters
>>154644722>Killed adult animation forever This is like saying the artists and writers of the golden age killed animation from the beginning.
>>154644739Wrong
>>154644722>Created the original outline of the show and surrounded himself with smarter, more talented people. Knew to step back to let them cook.>Had principals>Made adult animation a mainstream medium and not just some edgy, indie midnight showing.
>>154644740
>created one show that was overrated as fuck>publicly criticizes Disney for woke brownie points>continues to work for Disney making new Gravity Falls books occasionally
>>154644759How?
>>154644722This. Mike Judge and Seth MacFarlane mogs over Matt Groening>Mike Judge created both Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill, both quality shows>Seth MacFarlane created both Family Guy and American Dad, and although Family Guy isn't as good as before, American Dad is still based
>>154644762>Made adult animation a mainstream mediumAt what cost? Mainstream adult animation has been living the shadow of the adult sitcom for the better part of 3 decades.
Why are cartoonfags so pissed that a sitcom doesn't have le wacky toony cartoony animation? Imagine if I pulled this retarded argument against KOTH.
>>154644781I just don't understand how one can coast off a show that only had 2 seasons like thisGF ended over a decade agoAt least Groening's show is still on the air and was a legitimate phenomenon at one point
>>154644834King of the Hill has artistic intent beyond "CARTOONY BAD NEVER DRAW THESE GOOFY CHARACTERS FUNNY OR I'LL SHIT MY PANTS" like with Groening
Comparing Simpsons to King of the Hill doesn't make a lot of sense.KotH characters were designed to be down to earth and satirizing the real world.Simpsons characters look like this and you're not supposed to do anything funny with them, apparently.
>created a show that might've been iconic for television animation, especially during the early-90s>considered hellish to work with>got fired by every network and studio, including Nick>was even fired by Hanna-Barbera as he wasn't allowed to draw sexy women as the studio were "dykes">got fucked over by Bob Camp in the process during the remainder of the show's original run>revives Ren & Stimpy for an "adult" audience, only to fail hard>gets sued by his old animator just for his own company to shutdown>fucks little girls to hire them as animators later on (only for the same girls to have him MeToo'd)>took almost a whole decade to finish up his 8-minute short Cans Without Labels, including Kickstarter money>retires from the industry and still blogs about animation history and also lecturing about why he hates South Park, Family Guy, American Dad, Futurama, anime, or pretty much everything
>>154644759not that anon, but can you explain?
>>154644783>>154644909Try to ignore the bot. It just replies with "wrong" or "cope" whenever it sees a Matt Groening hate posts
>>154644704I think we might've found one >>154644917
>>154644898I think no one can beat John K in the hack tournament. Imagine if twitter and other social media existed back then. He would have been the biggest butthurt attention whore and drama queen on the internet.
>>154644795Judge and MacFarlane are also willing to share creator credits for their later shows
>>154644970I'm shocked he hasn't made a podcast yet where he just rants for hours.Unless he did and I wasn't paying attention
>>154644898>Might've Ren & Stimpy literally was iconic and a huge game changer for the industry, to the point that cartoons running today have direct ties to it.It's a real shame that John K couldn't keep his ego in check cause if Ren & Stimpy ran a little longer with the same general quality we could be looking at a completely different industry right now.
Why do so many of the most outspoken leftists look, speak and act exactly like conservatives?
>>154645033John should have waited a few years after Simpsons became popular and pitch ren and stimpy as an adult cartoon instead of selling it to Nickelodeon He could have avoided 50% of the drama involved
>>154645039If you saw Groening when he was young you could tell he was a hippie I don't think his voice sounds conservative either
>>154645046I don't even know why people like him and Alex Hirsch go through the trouble of making kids tv when you have to go through a hundred censorship hoops. I'd rather just make an adult cartoon. People like to talk about how great restrictions are but imagine if groening went to Nickelodeon with the Simpsons
>>154645046>>154645063That's more of a general American problem, animation being seen as a children's only medium makes it damn near impossible for any actually adult cartoon to hit it mainstream. Any really huge adult cartoons like Simpsons are more accurately cartoons that can generally be enjoyed by the whole family. South Park might be the only exception in the West.
>>154645033Ren & Stimp was important but the cartoons that came after it were way better and that is why people remember them as the iconic 90s cartoons. Both kids and adults prefer Dexter, PPG, Johnny Bravo, Rocko, etc. R&S wasn't even able to compete with Rugrats.
>>154645083>The Simpsons was once considered to be a wildly vulgar show in the early 90sThis is still fucking insaneIronically though, this didn't stop Fox themselves from marketing it to kids
>>154645083>South Park is the only cartoon for adults EVER!Why are SPfags so fucking retarded?
>>154645114>Tfw my parents let me watch violent movies and anime but The Simpsons wasn't allowed in any way in my house
>>154645128It's the only mainstream adult cartoon that doesn't cater to children, yes. I say this as someone who doesn't like South Park.
>>154645148>that doesn't cater to childrenWhat do you mean by this?
>>154644704Dana Terrace, Matt Braly, Rebecca Sugar, Ian Jones-Quarterly, and I’m sure there’s some more overhyped shitheads I’m forgetting.
>>154644704Gooseworx
>>154644704>the face of a racist
>>154644915Chode
>>154645052He wasn’t a hippie
>>154644898He’s like Byrne but worse, at least Byrne never touched real kids
>>154644722Let me guess you’re one of those “””Simpsons fans””” that doesn’t think season 1 or 2 belong in the golden era
>>154645632Unironically this.
>>154644704He couldn't hardly draw at all. He was surprised when they used his cocktail napkin drawings in the Ullman shorts as they were because he assumed they'd clean them up.
>>154645842His drawings are neat
>>154645046Or he should’ve pitched it to MTV instead of Nick.
>gets kicked out of his own show>show becomes more popular without him or his crew>returns years later>show gets fucking cancelled>ends it all with a TV movie that didn’t even air in America
>>154644704I think hack is way too harsh, but he’s definitely the luckiest /co/ creator. He had a strong indie following with his Life in Hell comic so it’s not like he didn’t understand comedy or cartooning it’s just that he accidentally created the most influential cartoon of all time in about 20 minutes because he worried about losing the rights to Life in Hell while waiting to pitch his idea. And the network he pitched it to basically gave him complete control because the network was so new and needed something to stand out from the other big three stations. I doubt we’ll ever see such a situation where a relative nobody is given such creative freedom ever again with a major studio.
>>154646091>refuses to show the pilot that kickstarted Johnny Bravo ever againClose to a decade of those lost media fags harassing him and he ignores each one.
>>154644704Uh... No? I don't think he ever claimed to be a great artist and LiH is by all implication his personal creation, not to mention that he was always very open about how the Simpsons was just him tricking the FOX execs into developing a show based on five minute doodles that he let others develop for him.When trying to think of better (worse?) examples of hacks, I can point out these:Bob Kane hardly did anything aside from tracing the artwork of others and outsourcing the writing and possibly even the entire process to ghost creators like Bill Finger, while still claiming to be the sole genius.David Wise was confirmed to use a handful of scripts as templates for his teleplays which were often very cliché, making you wonder if all he did was take notes from other TV shows, yet still having the audacity to claim he was the sole genius behind TMNT even though the pre-existing comic book by Eastman and Laird proved him wrong from the start.Jim Davis, though starting out as genuine, allowed his comic to quickly degenerate into lazy slop using the same exact gags and not even bothering to draw any of it himself.
>>154646219Hack is too generous of a word for Kane desu
>>154646099Yeah the late 80s to 90s were insane in terms of cartoonists getting luckyThe landscape has completely changed.
>>154644781also how does he get away with sleeping with aspiring animator chicks? Nobody was canceling him during MeToo.
>>154644704Everyone on /co/ because you all don’t create anything but shit and nothing
>>154646347I create things
>>154646347Coming to /co/ to hate yourself for doing nothing seems like a waste of time, you might as well enjoy it
>>154646492No you don't
>>154646492Prove it
>>154645097>iconic 90s cartoonsand 2000s
>>154646305>Yeah the late 80s to 90s were insane in terms of cartoonists getting luckyAnd also 2000s
>>154648990I saw your mom eating a saladLol no I made it up
>>154646333Because he didn't make them hate him
>>154646305they just had hit a convergence of there being a lot of Millenials (so a lot of audience for cartoons) and boomer/Gen X cartoonists who were all about pushing boundaries and being as extreme as possible
>>154646347>the people who create nothing are hack creatorswhat did anon mean by this
>>154649006you could've replied to >>154647706 as well, anon. It's not nice to it be ignored.
>>154649143*have it ignoredsorry about my retard grammar
>>154648994>>1546489972000's sucked, you retard jew. 90's were the best and mogged your shitty decade.
>>154644754They certainly fucked up the western comic industry. Them and mcarthyism in general
>>154649164literally kys industrycuck
>>154649187Make me faggot. '90s rule, 2000's sucked. Deal with it.
>>154649197go back to sucking up to Minions 3 and Gravity Falls you sad pathetic retard industrycuck
>>154644898Forgot.>Never meant deadlines, this was like half the reason he was fired all the time >Tried to sue Matt Stone and Trey Parker for stealing the idea Mr.Hankey from him. John K was legitimately just lying >When he got to make the "censorship free" cartoon of his dreams it was The Ren and Stimpy adult party cartoon, one of the worst received shows of all time
>>154649239>>When he got to make the "censorship free" cartoon of his dreams it was The Ren and Stimpy adult party cartoon, one of the worst received shows of all timethat was literally mentioned as>>revives Ren & Stimpy for an "adult" audience, only to fail hardlearn to read
>>154644781Now, i will be the first to admit that there is literally no evidence of it... But what is it about him that sets of my Nonce alarm the same way it did with Carrozza and Cosby?
>>154644704Jonathan Hackman.
>>154645289>I’m sure there’s some more overhyped shitheads I’m forgettingDaron Nefcy
>>154649239It’s weird how South Park went hard against Seth MacFarlane yet never even mentioned John K.
>>154644889Because Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill became slowly distinctive to each other as time went on, and even then Mike Judge's products were way, WAY different from Matt Groening, especially from a mile.Even both Seth MacFarlane's shows Family Guy and American Dad, even if they almost sorta have the same animation style, kinda don't. Hell, they are very distinctively different from each other. Even American Dad's co-creator, and even Seth himself, made this clear that it is very different from Family Guy right from the writing, characters, and humor, despite that retards STILL think this is the same show. Even then, both shows are different from Matt Groening (particularly Simpsons and Futurama) in terms of quality nowadays.If you look at whatever shit Matt Groening has made, i.e. Simpsons and Futurama, no they are not comparable to either Mike Judge or Seth MacFarlane's work, either animation or writing wise. Maybe in terms of concept, I guess(?), seeing as how the whole idea about these shows were either family units, or commentating on American culture, politics, educations, and society, or both of the above.
>>154650451They went after Seth MacFarlane for only Family Guy and Ted, but never American Dad.
>>154644704Ken Penders
>>154644795don't insinuate Seth MacFarlane is Mike Judge's equal. Mike Judge has at least three hit shows and three hit movies under his belt, and they all actually have different premises, and different styles of writing/visual identities.King of the Hill is also pretty much the best animated sitcom ever.
>>154644834the Simpsons was more cartoony back when it was betterthey have yellow skin and look ridiculous. Have fun with it.
>>154650512Don't start with me. I never even SAID that they're equal to each other. You're just projecting my post with falsehoods.
>>154644754Marvel and DC unironically killed comics as a medium and turned it into exclusively capeshit.
>>154650475I enjoy how with Judge's approach, it's almost as if you're viewing the world through the lead character's eyes.Beavis and Butthead's whole style is messy and chaotic, and human beings look grossly exaggerated, because that's how Beavis and Butthead conceive of the world. Hank Hill is an incredibly boring and straight laced conservative, and so everything about KotH feels kind of drab and stiff.And in the Goode Family (the one people don't like to talk about), everything is rendered with cheery pastel colours, and you have hatch style shading, which alludes to hippie cartoons from the 60's. I don't know if there's anything to be said of Silicon Valley's visual direction. It's a live action show, so it's a little different.
>>154650700Only up to a point. They couldn't fuck up the European or Japanese markets.
>>154650796His movies were also great. Office Space and Idiocracy are among my favorite comedies, and Extract was underrated
>>154644707He cuts in line at the ice cream stands
>>154644707He was supposed to prevent Archibald Franz Ferdinand from getting shot, but he didn't.
>>154651008*Archduke
>>154644898having to call H-B animators as "dykes" all because he's not allowed to draw sexy women still cracks me up
>>154651008Kek
>>154644707oh he is a fucking BIG TIME Actual Hack.he was a social butterfly and shameless self promotor, the quintessential LA type person. he worked like as a music critic for a major newspaper there in the 80s giving him ample opportunities of i'm sure network with smarter and more talented people and probably steal ideas. Once the show started going and they had the writers room situation squared away and the show shifted into high gear after S2 in terms of actual good episodes Groening had basically nothing to do with it.but really what confirmed this fact to me is that I have seen Life in Hell story timed here exactly ONCE in so many years, and being curious I happily browsed the thread.And it is, for lack of a better descriptors...cringe as fuck.I was honestly shocked at how goddamn unfunny, boring and up it's own ass it actually is. It's remarkable anyone at all has cared to remember it let alone publish it as a book. And if you go back and watch really early simpsons you can see this same kind of mopey ass self absorbed "i'm very special but nobody sees it" energy in Lisa. So one of the reasons why Lisa has always kind of sucked is...she has the most Groening left in her.If he was involved with the show in a really major capacity even when it was brand new, there is no way it makes it past 2...maybe 3 seasons.
>>154654374>and probably steal ideasRetard
>>154654374>So one of the reasons why Lisa has always kind of sucked is...she has the most Groening left in her.Oh my god, what the fuck!? And here I thought Greer and McCartney were responsible for that damage...
>>154654374I liked Life in HellHe also wrote all the ullman shorts which are funny
>>154654374>And if you go back and watch really early simpsons you can see this same kind of mopey ass self absorbed "i'm very special but nobody sees it" energy in Lisa. So one of the reasons why Lisa has always kind of sucked is...she has the most Groening left in her.lolno not at all. Ullman short Lisa was just Bart's sidekick and had no actual personality. actually James L. Brooks was the guy who mostly developed her as a character.
>>154651008Shouldn't have taken that wrong turn, Matty boy
>>154650512>Mike Judge has at least three hit showsking of the hill, beavis and butthead and whats the third?
>>154654557Daria, though there's a 4th failed one called "The Goode Family."
>>154654557Silicon Valley
>>154654566he created the character daria, but the show didnt have his involvement>>154654571is it really that good? ive always been meaning to check it out, but tj miller rubs me the wrong way sometimes
>>154654585>tfw goode family has more involvement from judge than dariaYou gotta be shitting me.
>>154654612he was fully involved with king of the hill. i dont know if he was contractually obligated to be working with fox, but it might have been for the best
the Simpsons was 75% not Groening's doing although he was at least semi-regularly involved with the writing until Futurama started and he did have certain rules he insisted on like no anthro animals and stuff like that
>>154654374it was a typical 80s underground comic and the humor probably doesn't translate well to today
>>154651553I don't know, Iwao Takamoto was an assistant animator for Aurora for Disney's Sleeping Beauty and many of his H-B characters do look kind of like her. Decades later, people still about the likes of Velma and more obscure characters like Rosemary.
>>154654585>he created the character daria, but the show didnt have his involvementI think one of the writers created Daria the character as a foil for Beavis and Butt-head. The only thing he for Daria when she was created was to name her after a classmate he had in school.
>>154654723>it was a typical 80s underground comic and the humor probably doesn't translate well to todayJames L. Brooks was impressed by that "Ways you can die in LA" strip which is why he decided to interview Groening for the TUS. Clearly at the time LIH had something going for it that's probably lost on modern audiences. I guess Millenials don't relate to that dirty, cynical 80s attitude it has.
>>154654807I did, as I’m a zoomie
>>154654807lol of course not Millenials are all Disney adults who only like lolsoquirkyrandumb SoL bullshit
>>154644898John only likes his childhood cartoons or ones made by his friends.
>>154644704I miss Apu.
>>154644759
>>154645646teehehe whoops>>154656287
>>154644707He is the luckiest man in entertainment. Beyond designing the characters, he didn't do shit in the creation of The Simpsons or Futurama.The Simpsons wasn't even his idea. James L. Brooks approached him to adapt Life in Hell as interstitials for The Tracey Ullman Show. Groening realized he'd lose the copyright to his comics, so instead he quickly doodled a family named after his own. It sounds genius in hindsight, but it was laziness that got turned into genius by the people around him.Groening didn't know how to storyboard, write, or animate. The tiny Klasky Csupo team Brooks hired was responsible for making those shorts work because they were desperate to prove themselves. Groening contributed some ideas and story notes, but he gets way too much credit even for the shorts.His lawyer negotiated a merchandising backend that seemed worthless because these were just filler cartoons for a live-action variety show. But Klasky Csupo nailed the shorts so well they became more successful than the awful Tracey Ullman Show. Ironically, Ullman was the only cast member who didn't voice a Simpsons character.That deal turned into insane luck when Brooks used the shorts' success and his own clout to convince FOX to make The Simpsons a series. Groening's deal carried over from insignificant interstitials to the biggest animated sitcom ever, making him the richest individual in animation. His signature ended up on virtually everything Simpsons-related, making him the public face and giving him huge leverage to get Futurama made.Anyone deeply involved with The Simpsons seems to have little good to say about Groening because he did very little while becoming one of the highest-paid people on the show. He's the definition of a hack.
>>154656287Still wrong
>>154656354Still you can't handle the truth.
>>154656325Groening didn't really have much idea for the characters outside retelling stories that happened to him and his sister when they were kids.
>>154654566he didn't create Daria you retard
>>154644759>>154656354why are you upset?
Rebecca SugarVivzie pop
>>154650475>>154650493American Dad! is still an awesome show. I'd dare say it's preferable than Family Guy any given day. Stan is still played straight as Hank Hill. Steve is also an amazing singer. Roger rules and I'm glad we've gotten way more episodes featuring him later on in the run.
>>154646219should we also include Alan Moore or Frank Miller?
>>154644707Matt Groening was at a convention and he found out that Fox execs decided to cancel Futurama, thus screaming out loud, "BETRAYAAAAAAL!"
>>154644704>Ken Penders>Andrew Dobson>Lauren Faust>Alex Hirsch>Rebecca Sugar>Daron Nefcy>Dana Terance>Matt Braly>Vivziepopso much more
>>154657539On what grounds?
>>154644898I can’t in good conscience call him a full on hack just on the basis that R&S fell off pretty hard after he got canned. He himself fell off afterwords yes, but unlike a lot of people mentioned here he at least displayed abundant talent at one point when you look into Mighty Mouse and whatever Hanna-Barbera stuff he was tossed on. His flash cartoons were pretty funny imo and the Yogi shorts are fun when you get past John’s famous dogshit pacing. That all said, he absolutely should not be left unattended, and I don’t just mean with minors. His stuff was always at its best as either a secondary or under an executive’s thumb. It’s like George Lucas where his shit falls flat when nobody is around to tell him no, only with MUCH more ego involved.
>>154644704I've been reading about some schizo spamming something about Loco Melones on the /co/ boards. I find its autism to be hysterical for sure, but to ensure my curiosity I'd looked up to whoever made it. Izabela Bzymek was brought up during discussions at times as she was the one who made this. I dug a little deeper, and her children's books are also ugly to look at. I can see why her only claim to fame was her animation work on shit like Angry Birds Movie or some stupid shit like that. Also, her Oma's Quilt short movie, while an improvement for sure, was still unfunny. Is it possible to call her a hack though? Not really, seeing as how she isn't as well know. But looking at her quality of content, it's not a pretty sight.
>>154649180McCarthy was right.
>>154645046That doesn't follow; it'd be at a disadvantage for not being a Simpsons clone.
>>154646219More like what if they hadn't ripped of The Shadow.
>>154658105>Mighty MouseSpeaking of, Paul Terry was the Chris Chan of the Golden Age of Animation, with his OC Mighty Mouse being the Sonichu of such, if you really think about it.>What if I combine two most famous pop culture characters Superman and Mickey Mouse and made my own cartoon?
>>154658210Cope
>>154656325>His lawyer negotiated a merchandising backend that seemed worthless because these were just filler cartoons for a live-action variety show.The lesson of Star Wars; get the merch rights just in case.
>>154658232nigga why you upset?
>>154658232They traced art from the illustrations that appear in Shadow stories. It's undeniable.
>>154658232Arrest...
>>154658232Obvious autistic bot is obvious
>>154656321K
>>154657492>>154657693only her patreon simps are still praising viziepop.
>>154658279all of which consist of 20-30 year old fat unbathed autistic manchildren furfags
>>154644704
>>154644707groening touched my pp
>>154644704No one quotes the Simpsons jokes that are actually funny and that is GRIM AS FUCK!
>>154649180Lmao no it didn't
