it's funny that every time they tried to reboot Superman to make it simpler the old stuff that was removed just keeps coming back
I applaud Morrison for actually doing some strange and interesting things to the mythos with nu52 Action. Not all successful, but at least it wasn't stripped back simplicity, he tried something, not unlike an Elseworlds or Absolute U.
>>154720773All I ask is that he not be so fucking broken. Boring ahh character. Always having to rely on kryptonite to make it somewhat interesting
>>154720773People like the old stuff and modern writers aren’t as creative as Otto Binder
>>154720773It is because they don't replace it with anything
>>154720974True. They always take stuff out but never replace it. They imitate it like with Matrix after Kara was killed off and taken off continuity.
>>154720863>Boring ahh character.Tiktok is that way, zoomzoom.
oh look it's a variant of THIS thread again. nope. this thread is now a post whatever thread and superman and his autism spammers can go suck cock.
>>154720773Byrne created the modern Superman; until then, the mythos didn't exist. Even Kirby focused on his original characters in *Fourth World* and never made an effort to connect them to Superman. So everyone keeps coming back to this book for good reason. Even fans today consider everything Byrne did to be “canon,” even if only indirectly.
>>154721203Don’t hate me because I’m young and sexy old man. The best version of Superman wasn’t a Mary Sue, and the writers didn’t need to rely on kryptonite to challenge him
>>154720773It’s because the good ideas eventually win out and the bad ones become oddities of the time period. And then there are those ideas that are contrary but have equal weight, so then there writer can use personal preference on which to pick (like the Kents being alive, dead, or one of them dead).
>>154720960People like the modernized versions of they old stuff done by writers like Morrison and Waid, not the literal old stuff which is a slog to read.
>>154721516Silver Age Superman is fun to read and it's smarter than people think.
>>1547212854th World was its own thing.
>>154721889I've tried, only really liked the stuff Siegel did upon his return. It's cute stuff otherwise, not really something I'd come back to regularly. By the time the 60's goes into full swing I'm just taken by the fact they were still writing like that while Spider-man over at Marvel exists and feels like it held up much better.
>>154722126>By the time the 60's goes into full swing I'm just taken by the fact they were still writing like that while Spider-man over at Marvel exists and feels like it held up much better.This, so much this. So much of Silver Age superman is still essentially a comedy book.
>>154720863Brainlet take. Every superhero always wins, regardless of their power level. That's the nature of capeshit. If you haven't realized that, you are literally dumber than a child.>ahhOh, a zoomer. You grew up in clown world, deprived of an actual education or any direct experience with cognitive logic. My condolences.
>>154722352So your argument is that everyone does it so it’s ok? I just want to see Superman struggling to hold up a collapsing skyscraper the same way I struggle lifting up a heavy box so I can relate to him in some way. This fucking guy has punched through dimensions, I’m supposed to give a fuck about him fighting robots and aliens?
>>154722309>So much of Silver Age superman is still essentially a comedy book.And what's wrong with that?
>>154720960>Nerds like the old stuffFTFY
>>154723155Comedy rarely lands with everyone. Plus look at the MCU. Everything being joke gets old
>>154723155It’s not really great or timeless comedy.
>>154723245>>154723265I think a lot of it is still funny and it's so rich in terms of his personal mythos and psychology, and when it comes to "Action" Superman is more entertaining when he's played as a cartoon character with tricks and schemes rather than just a big strong guy who punches other big strong guys to see who's stronger.
>>154722557That’s why One Punch Man, and Superman for that matter, were such colossal failures. Because there’s literally no way to tell a compelling story with a character that’s neatly invincible
>>154722030Yes, but Kirby is known for lore-heavy comics. Perhaps due to editorial mandates, much of his work was set in Kirby’s own “Elseworlds” for much of the ’70s through the late ’90s. The 4th World wasn’t a big deal until fanboys, nostalgic for Kirby, revived his comics and made them a core part of the DC universe. Things in the comics were quite different from what we take for granted. DC allowed Byrne to do a lot (though not enough) with the character. That’s why nothing can be read within continuity, but rather in chronological order, taking into account external influences. There is no internal multiverse; rather, people are just doing their own thing. It’s well known that Superman’s flight ability came from the Fleischer cartoons, along with many other elements we now take for granted as part of the character.
>>154724257>That’s why One Punch Man, and Superman for that matter, were such colossal failuresBullshit. One Punch Man failed because Madhouse wasn't animating anymore.
>>154723188No, normies like old stuff to, otherwise nostalgia baiting would be niche and not a money maker.
>>154720773John's version of Superman origins was arguably the worst
>>154724587The core audience of 18-35 year olds don’t have nostalgia for 60s comics.
>>154721285>Byrne created the modern Superman; until then, the mythos didn't exist.Read more older comics.>>154722126Spider-Man was popular with teens, Superman with little kids. Spider-Man didn't pass Superman in sales until 1973 and that was a couple of years after they had changed Superman to become more serious to be more like Marvel.
>>154724527One Punch Man failed because you can only make that joke last so long and coasting off attractive females has an expiration date if you don't do anything with them.
>>154725092>Read more older comics.Other anon's kind of right, though. Or rather, maybe a better way to put it is that Byrne's Superman synthesized the various tidbits of Superman mythos that had evolved and been floating around in Superman comics in the previous 50 years into a coherent, comprehensive whole. Take Superman's upbringing: even something everyone now knows and takes for granted like Smallville being in Kansas wasn't established in the comics until 1981. Man of Steel tied all of those things together which is why it became the foundation which all later Superman stories would look back to.
>>154725141One Punch Man anime failed because seasons 2 and 3 were shifted to dogshit animation studios who gave 0 fucks when working on the projectOne Punch Man manga failed because Murata is a hack writer who kept redrawing his own manga to add more smoothbrain 'hype' moments and completely missed the original themes, comedy and tone of the webcomicOne Punch Man webcomic is still going strong, the only issue is no american ever bothers actually reading it
>>154725306>Byrne's Superman synthesized the various tidbits of Superman mythos that had evolved and been floating around in Superman comics in the previous 50 years into a coherent, comprehensive whole.It was perfectly coherent already and Byrne tossed out most of it.
>>154725434No, it only was if you had read everything. The whole point was putting it all together in one story to establish the new continuity. Byrne streamlined it.
>>154724672I think I like it more than Waid's. Though I'm still team Byrne
>>154725434You know why a huge plot point in the crisis—and even in Morrison’s *Final Crisis* is about “weird continuity”? It’s because it doesn’t make any sense at all. Superman and Superboy were literally the same character until they retconned it to say they weren’t. That, and all the other bizarre elements that were even more relevant than Krypton getting destroyed. Byrne’s story is the one that acknowledges all the major aspects of Superman’s life while still keeping things logical. So, no “Superboy and Superman were the same entity”
>>154723155I'm not interested in Superman and his Pal's wacky hijinks.
>>154725434The soft reboot of Earth One caused some confusion and the bronze age was so different in tone it was hard to believe that the silver age stories were still canon to it. There was also a time when the superbooks were handled by four different editors with no group editor overseeing them all, so they were all doing their own thing without care for what the others were doing.
>>154725489>No, it only was if you had read everything.Superman's origin had been recapped many times in the comics before Byrne.>The whole point was putting it all together in one story to establish the new continuity. Byrne streamlined it.Byrne streamlined it by getting rid of the most fun parts of it, and his innovations were a mixed bag at best.
>>154725544>Superman's origin had been recapped many times in the comics before Byrne.Yes, that was exactly my point and what Byrne was fixing.
>>154725434It was going to get tossed out regardless of whomever was going to spearhead the relaunch.
>>154725532Then why even read Superman?>>154725538>There was also a time when the superbooks were handled by four different editors with no group editor overseeing them all, so they were all doing their own thing without care for what the others were doing.I don't see why this is so bad, I don't have a fetish for continuity and crossovers.
>>154723188Every comic is old after you read it
>>154725582>regardless of whomever was going to spearhead the relaunch.It wasn't inevitable, Batman was able to reboot without tossing the baby out with the bathwater because he was rebooted by people who actually liked him.
>>154725544That anon was right, *All Star Superman* is just like people imagine old stories to have been. Unlike how they actually were, which was dull, tedious, and generally poorly written. Moore goes even further and parodies the poor writing of those stories, down to the bad grammar.
>>154725584Not necessarily about continuity or crossovers, but things aren't exactly coherent when you have up to four people handling stories that may or may not contradict one another.
>>154725619Byrne, Wolfman, and Ordway did like Superman. They just thought some aspects were cringe and better off left behind.
>>154725619Batman just needs the dead parents. There's nothing to juggle like there was with Superman
>>154725622It's disingenuous to act like Moore thought Silver Age Superman was bad, his run on Supreme was a love letter to that era.
99% of the people who shit on Pre-Crisis Superman have never even read it.
>>154725702Moore in *Supreme* is really hard to describe without pointing out his ambivalence toward the medium. He highlights how illiterate and often unartistic the medium is, but he also shows how much he loves writing comic books. The segments set in the past are largely deconstructivist, the grammar is poor, but the stories feature real-world science. There’s continuity even though he takes liberties with the characters. It’s much less mean-spirited than the retro segments in *Miracleman*. But it’s definitely not a “reconstruction” of the genre. It seems faithful to the past, but he breaks all the rules at every turn. Nothing should be taken at face value.
>>154725672With Batman they removed the golden and silver age, kept most of the bronze, but turned Batman into an asshole loner and gave Jason a bad attitude.
>>154725619>Batman was able to reboot without tossing the baby out with the bathwaterThey did the same with Batman. Year One boiled his origin down to the very essentials and tossed out a lot of stuff that had built up over the decades (e.g., all the various and conflicting stuff about Joe Chill).
>>154725738Piracy made it far accessible, younger generation learned that the comedic Louis comics were comedies.
>>154725622>>154725702Anon got mixed up and meant to say Morrison.
>>154725619This isn't quite correct>>154726541Is right in that they just took the essentials, but a lot of it was tossed out or entirely reworked as to make swaths of stories unfeasible. Like primarily, Robin was there before Alfred pre-crisis, Post decides Dick doesn't start until year 3, which left open a whole two years where a bunch of classic villains are meant to now first appear before Robin, when Robin was there in their original stories. It's had an effect of minimizing Robin as a whole because now he's not at the origin of all these characters but a later addition himself.It's also made Alfred way more important than he ever was, or even what Miller expected (given that he has Alfred very unceremoniously die in DKR and has barely written him since). Now Alfred is a father or at least uncle figure, not just Bruce's witty butler. So much was erased that people will see later stories referencing the GA or SA and not realize they're references. The Wayne murder being a hit by Lew Moxon is a big one. People think that's modern subversion and not a creation of bill Finger.
