Last time, in the midst of the Secret Invasion the Shadow Initiative attempted to assassinate Veranke but thanks to body doubles and misdirection were taken out, all except Ant-Man. With the help of Jocasta, who'd gotten communications back online, the expanding anti-Skrull forces led by 3-D Man and using Devil-Slayer's cloak to teleport went to each state picking off the Skrull infiltrators (which included Thor Girl) one by one before Ant-Man arrived with news that the Skrulls intended to use spires connected to the Initiative's jump gates as a doomsday weapon. The speedsters managed to destroy most of the spires but the last at Camp Hammond was still active. But the arrival of Nick Fury's and 3-D Man's teams ended things for good... only for 3-D Man to kill Crusader when he realized Crusader was a Skrull.Afterwards, Hardball stole some of Komodo's lizard formula research and passed it on to Senator Woodman who used it to turn into a rampaging monster. The Hard Hitters and Desert Stars tried to take him out but it was Hardball who killed Woodman, betraying the Initiative to join Hydra. At the same time Nightmare was looking for his son... Trauma.Today is Avengers: The Initiative #20-23.Previous >>154775968
Issue 21
Issue 22
>>154763690Hey, I think this is the first time that Rhodey fought Bren in his career as an armored superhero, despite the later being someone he fought alongside in the war. Of course, neither one addresses the other.
>>154790139It’s weird seeing gargoyle here I only know him from that one issue where he and pete teamed up. He seems to wholesome for Slott shut
>>154790387Oh so here is where Slott at no point ever has Jan own up to her treatment of Hank that caused him to snap
Oh look, for the first time since her debut it's Carmilla.
That's another MVP clone that bites it. Patrick is actually still around but like a lot of Initiative characters hasn't really been seen since Fear Itself.
Ragnarok next shows up in Thor just after Siege and gets destroyed but is brought back and placed on the Dark Avengers (the renamed Thunderbolts book). He's actually still alive and out there somewhere but hasn't been seen since the end of that series AFAIK.
Issue 23
I guess by law Bloodscream and Roughouse are required to show up for any Madripoor story.That's it for today. Next time is Avengers: The Initiative #24-27.
bump
>>154790187The fact that Bill Foster's still dead kinda pisses me off
So was it here they decided Typhoid Mary was a mutant, or was it earlier? I remember reading a book that had a bunch of Typhoid Mary stories and despite being around Wolverine and a transgender mutant, she wasn't called a mutant in them.
>>154793901Yeah, before it was unexplained previously but debated either in universe or an encyclopedia that she might have been a mutant.
>>154790187>>154790169>>154790152I do really like how differently the real Hank is characterised to the one we see through most of the Initiative that was the Imposter
>>154790387Well suppose they couldn't of swept all of his character growth as a fallout of that moment but this page forgets that Hank and Jante had already let the events of that story be water under the bridge.
>>154790666Diamondback looking nice as always
>>154791221I will say, I do appreciate that MVP's death is such a driving force behind this book. Guy was an Issue 1 death and we're here almost two years, 4 clones and an event later and the first domino that was his death has finally brought down the camp.It's satisfying storytelling. Cheers to Gage (and far lesser so to Slott) for sticking to it and not forgetting the poor guy.
>>154796644I like how it dovetails naturally from Secret Invasion and Dark Reign as well. Skrull Pym keeps Ragnarok as a final fuck you in case of defeat. Secret Invasion deals a giant blow to the program's credibility, Ragnarok reawakening destroys what's left of it and with the Initiative as they know it effectively over Justice decides to right it's biggest wrong. Obviously events cause a bump but a decent writer is able to weave things in so the storytelling still makes sense.I think the scene with Trauma and Thor Girl from >>154791184 is another good example. I don't know if Slott (and Gage) knew from the start about Secret Invasion and always planned for her to be a Skrull but either way it lends some more pathos to Trauma because in that little exchange you can tell he was hoping that maybe the real Tarene had the same sort of feelings as her doppelganger and he's disappointed that she doesn't.I've said before it's one of my favorite comics from the era not because it's some kind of revolutionary book but it's just a really solid book that tells its story well and does a good job of making the reader give a shit about a cast that's mostly obscure characters and new guys. I think in that respect the Johnny Guitar story which will be tomorrow epitomizes the series almost perfectly.
>>154794635To be fair this is mostly just Hank beating himself up using Jostaca as a hammer
>>154797578That's fair suppose since Pym has plenty guilt and insecurity plus I trust Gage with Hank considering Avengers Academy and Battleworld, also damn I fucked up Janet's name there lmao. Jante sounds like if she decided to do some DMC fashion.
>>154790293Yeah you deserve all the shit you get from them TRIATHLON
>>154791611Those two are one of my favourite hired goon duo. Just the right powerlevel for one issue.
>>154791611Thanks
>>154798322I can take or leave them, same with most Madripoor stories really.
>>154790121Wasn't this Duggan retconned to be an LMD?
>>154790666It's funny how Diamondback, who is iirc also an ex-villain, is the one telling them this
>>154791101>>154791112>>154791129Okay that's BS. Samson is supposed to be as strong as calm Hulk and has proven it by holding his own against the genuine article in 1v1. Geiger has a copy of Samson's powers, so this here is basically calm Hulks. And Ultra-Girl went toe to toe with the skrull with Thor Girl's powers. These three together should be more than strong enough to restrain the real Thor, let alone a weaker copy, yet here they can only briefly hold him down. And that's not going over other heavy hitters present, like Justice, Rage, Gauntlet, and he's throwing them all around like they are amateurs.
Issue 24
This is the coolest thing O'Grady's ever done right?
I had completely forgotten that Ant-Man was in Diggle's Thunderbolts book but aside from how he revamped Ghost into basically being Dale Gribble that book sucked.
>>154804748Ghost is weird in his weirdness. First out he does think he would do sabotage anyway even if he wasn't paid for it, but otherwise is straightforward and dangerous. In Spider-Man appearances he doesn't do anything outstandingly weird. In the stories with very weird art, he's adopting different identities but for an intentional purpose of sabotage working with A.I.M. Then in Inevitable he gets called crazy and just using motivation as a fake motivation, and comes off a bit loose in his dialogue. Then what you brought up, and he more or less abandons conventional logic.
Issue 25
>>154804487You know, Constrictor should probably stop telling everyone that he fought Hulk cause all it seems to get him is a spot on missions that have a high risk of him dying. Everyone's fought Hulk by this point. Even fucking Daredevil fought Hulk (and got his ass beat) and you don't see him bragging about it, eh?
>>154804675Do you think Scorpion'd be up for a threesome with a reptile girl?
>>154804928>>154804944Poor guy. All things considered he was far more restrained here than he had any right to be after all the shit Initiative put his son (and his corpse) through.
Issue 26
I was kind of surprised to learn that Sandoval didn't start out as a DC guy and this was some of his early work because his art on this series has a very 2000s DC house style look to it.
>>154805073So Gauntlet can take out Ares, but can't deal with a bootleg Thor with 20 other people assisting him?
>>154805435All he really did was punch him out a window which isn't going to take Ares out. And given how guys like him and Herc are portrayed he probably would have been more amused by the balls it took to even do it than insulted.
>>154805117That issue of... Thunderbolts? Dark Avengers?... with Samson and Penance is one of my favourite comic issues ever. Sucks that Penance was forced to backslide, but at least he got over his trauma eventually... mostly.
>>154805213She seems flexible.
>>154805148Osborn just had to act like a dick to one of the few heroes who might have worked under him voluntarily
>>154805530Well it's Osborn. Dark Reign is basically him rubbing his status in the faces of all the heroes until he finally overreaches and loses his mind.
>>154805182Honestly, what the fuck is Razorfist supposed to contribute to this team? Scorcher has an armored suit and a big ass fire blaster, Griffin is a guy who went head-to-head with powerhouses like Wonder Man and Namor, and Living Laser is basically Photon but evil. While Razorfist... is a dude with blades replacing his arms.
>>154805600He's one of the multitude of super elite martial artst types that doesn't really work outside of lower power level books ala his buddy Zaran.
>>154805378U-Foes are supposed to be Hulk villains. Later in the same book they would beat the piss out of Thor with some assistance. Yet here they get floored by flashbangs thrown by police who weren't even aiming for them. If there's one thing that has been irritating me throughout the whole book, it's how little care there is regarding how dangerous and powerful a lot of the featured characters are supposed to be.
>>154805163Gravitybros...
Issue 27I figure I should add the appropriate songs too.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ue4_MWwKY8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6IwxpL-ZDk
>>154805531Is Vampiro a new character or some obscure z-list bad guy? I don't think I've ever heard of this guy
>>154805905Hyper obscure. He's a one issue villain from a late '90s Nova miniseries written by Erik Larsen. His death here is literally his only other appearance.
>>154790363>>154790637She calls herself Typhoid and has the same movements, but her voice is very different. Integration is a funny thing. Also notable in that it actually uses 4 (her "sane" personality is usually ignored because of not being that interesting beyond trying to wrangle the others and doesn't have a cool name).
>>154806127I didn't even know there was a fourth. Only Mary, Typhoid and Bloody Mary. And 99% of the time she shows up it's Typhoid anyway.
And pay off for the Dragon Man bit from issue 8.
That's it for today. Next time, since we're in Dark Reign we'll switch away for a bit for Dark Reign: Young Avengers #1-5.
>>154806110I'm telling ya, issues about mooks that get in over their heads are always the best. It's a damn cheat code to being relatable, which is all it's gotta be. That's why I liked Hood so much in his Marvel Knights book. Shame what happened, there.
>>154806162Walker is actually in the same storyline that Bloody Mary is introduced, one issue apart. Which shows how noteworthy she is.
>>154806431Admittedly I only know Bloody Mary from I believe Spectacular #213 which I got as a kid with some birthday money because it was a Spider-Man comic but I don't think I ever got the follow up issue.
>>154805955It's kinda funny but also interesting how there are so many layers of the superhero/villain game that even fucking Trapster can be a role model to someone. Guess that explains why Constrictor gets so much respect just for daring to fight Hulk once
>>154806110Poor guy. At least he managed to save his friend from the meatgrinder
>>154806204Arthur, you sure fell down a lot from the Headmen. But I did learn something. I didn't recognize the cannon fodder guys, but did the name Blackwing as one of the dead. Turns out he gave up on being a supervillain and hired out a woman to wear his name and the rest of the teammate were also part of the fodder. Marvel sure has many comics.
>>154807611Pretty much all the characters in the cannon fodder team are from Larsen's Nova mini or the members of Heavy Mettle from New Warriors vol. 2. I guess if you're going to use characters for this purpose, characters with maybe one or two appearances from books nobody read or liked is the right choice.
thank you
>>154806374>Marvel KnightsMAX?
>>154790090last time avengers was readable, was dark reign era.
>>154811168Damn, that was MAX. I really thought that was Knights for some reason. My bad, but yeah, his MAX book.
>>154813037No worries.
>>154806252Based.
Okay since this is still up I'll be doing Dark Reign: Young Avengers #1-5, the story of a group of somewhat off young people trying to be heroes.I believe I should be able to finish this coming just short of the image limit but I guess we'll see.
I'm pretty sure Sylvie's the most successful of all these characters since I think a version of her showed up in the MCU. Poor Melter died during the end of Krakoa.
Also, I don't know why he'd be surprised that the neo-nazi chick turned out to not be a good person.
Issue 2
>>154816927I feel real bad for Melter. He's a pretty realistic "guy who just can't quite get things right", especially with his powers being as volatile as they are. He really deserved better.
Does Princess Python really bring anything to any group beyond having a python? I don't even think it's some kind of super python. It's just a regular python.
Issue 3
>>154817296The Python knocked out the Hulk once so it must be one hell of a snake
>>154817517HULK HAVE OPHIDIOPHOBIA!
>>154817296Her python size changes depending on the needed threat level, with some being large enough to swallow a human whole. And it is explicitly multiple pythons she raises because some stories have the one she is working with die.
Issue 4
>>154817687God damnThat notAsgardian pussy is even turning the gay boy straight
If it wasn't obvious, this entire miniseries is a commentary on Dark Reign specifically and the general trend that superhero comics had been taking all decade generally.
Oh and naturally, Princess python shows up again at some point alive and well and not blown up.
>>154817457Feels weird claiming Princess Python's kid is able to be the token rich guy funding the group. Usually the Circus of Crime is pretty poverty and reliant on what they can steal from wallets of those Ringmaster hypnotizes to get by. Wonder if the writer had a different parent in mind originally, but got told having a never before mentioned teenage child would cause severe issues and pushed to someone with less specific history.
>>154817110Wasn't expecting a TV Burp reference, that's for certain, although considering Cornell's writing this, it makes sense that it's a UK tv show being referenced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWLETnpcKqs
>>154817971Carbombs must have a 0% success rate in comic books.
Issue 5Apologies, I had to step out for a few minutes.
>>154818050I wonder what happened to Cornell anyway? He seemed like a guy who was obviously going to be a bigger deal and got Gaiman's blessing to use Death in his Action Comics run. But I don't think I've seen him write anything since Demon Knights.
>>154818278Last thing I remember him writing was a Judge Anderson story for 2000AD, but that was a few years back. No idea about anything since.
>>154816912The ghost of Yukio Mishima is cumming buckets right now
On one hand I guess this is ridiculous. On the other, Billy and Sylvie are supposed to be powerful, Coat is using items belonging to a demi-god and also I hate the Sentry so I don't really care about him getting clowned.
Most of the Young Masters appeared off and on for a while kind of being used as generic villains which really feels like it doesn't work with Melter, Enchantress and Coat-of-Arms.
That's all for today. Next time will be Nomad: Girl Without a World #1-4 as well as the Nomad backups from Captain America #602-605.
Big Zero and Coat of Arms are interesting name-wise. The other 4 recycle an existing Masters of Evil name, but these ones don't.Big Zero could have been called Goliath with no issue. But Coat of Arms stands out. The one you think of first or second looking at her wasn't a Master of Evil, and no actual member's name is suitable for her other than maybe Black Knight or Whirlwind in the abstract.Maybe I'm overthinking it, and it was just because the names for the others were "available".Kind of a weird bunch overall.
>>154818666I feel like each is riffing on certain archetypes that would have been popular in the decade (and in general superhero comics more broadly). Melter is the villain with a tragic background which makes him rife for redemption like a Sandman or something, Sylvie is the likable newbie with a mysterious past tied to a villain. Big Zero is the blatant shitbag villain that still gets treated as at worst an anti-hero. Egghead is obviously an inverted riff on characters like Vision and Red Tornado. Executioner is obviously Punisher and those types of Death Wish style vigilantes and the type of people who worship them.Then Coat is the one you can't really place since she's not really a riff on a character archetype but instead is a meta character meant to act as a stand-in for the creative process and fans which is why she's an artist obsessed with critiquing the heroes and villains and has fangirl reactions and somewhat warped senses on who she thinks is cool (because fans, being outside the comics and all, are free to find Norman cool in spite of the awful shit he does).
Coat of arms is cool and should have been used more.
>>154819052As much as I generally don't like her, Coat should 100% be put with Kamala. They're both fangirls, both heavily interested in the superpowered community, Kamala writes cape fanfics while Coat does art pieces. The thing is that Coat doesn't really fit neatly into a box of either hero or villain but that just means she would be able to better play off of Kamala and have a complex relationship with her as a neutral party where she can be an antagonist or ally depending on what's needed as her whole thing is "exploring the superhuman paradigm."In that respect, Big Zero should also be part of Kamala's rogues gallery. It's a complete no brainer of a villain for her and you've even got a ready made (if testy) partnership for her in Becky St. Jude who's less the racist kind of fascist but still fascist enoguh.
>>154818517>This doesn't countNorman's always been a bitch nigga
>>154818666>Big ZeroConsidering she's a neo-Nazi and they like their faggy wordplay she's probably referencing Baron Zemo>Big Zero>Baron Zemo>BZ
>>154819993>and another thing: i didn't lose.>please don't put in the newspaper that i lost.
>>154818959Huh. Your description of Sylvie makes sense since I was kind of stumped on what she meant for the group. Your descriptions of them all also are better than how I had in my head like "doomed sad boy you want to get better" or "extreme asshole". You could say Melter being a straightforward henchman in some later things is also consistent with his archetype.
Patriot must get a "most improved" medal since the original writer. He comes off as an actual leader here.
