Buy an ad

You have Joe “One More Day” Quesada to thank for creating the whole: angered audience is an engaged audience mindset.

Intentionally getting people mad is a terrible business strategy because it leads to apathy from the audience.

“Apathy is death. Worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.”

Tt's no wonder DC is doing better then Marvel when you look at things that way.

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>>154802032

The anger is the point. It's fun to ruin good things for everyone and make them seethe, people on 4chan should understand that better than anyone.

>>154802101
At some point if you do it too long it turns into a series of self-inflicted wounds instead

>>154802146
Who cares? Burn the whole world down as long as you get a quick chuckle out of it.

>>154802169
Based crackhead logic

>>154802218
Most of the time people with the mentality that they need to continue being shitheads for a laugh end up being the butt of the joke instead and get pissed about it

>>154802218
>>154802270
Just burn it all down and laaaaauuuuugh. That's the 4chan way.

>>154801601
Marvel is taking back the #1 spot when Midnight rolls out.

>>154802218
It's simpler than that and it's crabs in a bucket passive aggressive edition.

They lack the talent and heart to make anything good, they fail so bad at being anything beautiful that they rather make everything ugly, they rather hurt and gain hate from others because it's easy to hate, any one can do it, but love? Most people will never know love, and fewer still can create anything with it.

>>154802554
Embrace the Freudian death drive. Drive the world to its end for shits and giggles.

>>154802489
No they will not the Midnight line will be one big failure.

>>154804105
Depends on how you define failure. If it pisses people off, I consider it a success.

Spiderman S U C K S right now.

>>154802489
>>154804105
>>154804500
I'm kind of morbidly excited for how ass Midnight looks.

From what little we know, it looks designed by somebody who both doesn't comprehend the appeal of Absolute (it isn't the horror or edge - Absolute can get pretty goddamn upbeat when it wants to, e.g. the way AMM ends), and thinks late-2000s to early-2010s pop horror is still the zeitgeist of the teenage demographic.

If Marvel's got one thing they can get right at the moment, it's complete trainwreck books. Those can be fun to read if you detach yourself from any emotional investment in the characters.

>>154804525
You're not supposed to be having fun. You're supposed to get mad and seethe so they can laugh at you. That's how they have fun. There's no greater pleasure than being deliberately obnoxious and irritating until everyone around you goes absolutely insane with rage. Yet again, people on 4chan should know that.

>>154804500
I think it is more most likely it will get ignored by most people anon yhe concepet of vampires has been done countless times. The whole thing sounds like one big snooze to me. Marvel is just scraping the bottom of the barrel.

>>154804559

The people who still believe that decades later end up being washed uncs or Lowtax

>>154804628
If you aren't willing to destroy the entire world just because you think it'll make a funny sound, you are weak. You don't need any reason to intentionally ruin good things for everyone except "Because." Not "Because it's fun." Not even "Because I can." Just "Because." The ideal state of being is something like a robot that runs the following program:
10 DO EVIL
20 LAUGH
30 GOTO 10
Whoever kills the world first wins.

>>154804725
Typical washed unc reaction

>>154804559
Best thing to do is to completely ignore it. That'll hurt them the most.

>>154804559
Now now, I don't want to imply I'd BUY Midnight. I'm just morbidly curious about how bad it's going to be.

By far the worst thing it could be though is boring, which is my main concern.

>>154802071
It's Morbin' time Mr Brevoort

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>>154802489
The Midnight line genuinely just sounds fucking stupid. They already did a new Ultimate line, and it flopped because Marvel is run by fucking retards. Trying to do Ultimate again, but cranking the edge up to the max, won't be any more successful if the underlying problems still persist. Shit's still gonna be bad.

I don't want Marvel comics to die bros...

>>154802071
I can't even picture how vile you have to be to relish in making your paid customers feel bad and unhappy.

>>154807347
According to certain anons here there isn't a DiDio you can oust to basically cure the company's ills - apparently there's more than one in the head offices, on top of the immense downward pressure from the MCU side.

I don't know who those multiple DiDios would be, though Brevoort's probably one of them.

I'd say recovery in 5 years would be optimistic - if DC falters catastrophically soon (always on the table), the non-big-2 companies are better poised to take advantage of it than Marvel is right now.

>>154801601
None of this is happening outside of your head.

>>154807299
I wonder if they looked at the Backrooms and Obsession and think to themselves, yes the youth CRAVE for the horror genre.
Then give us Gen X takes on the horror genre, the most interesting being a Kamen Rider riff.

You want Obsession interest Marvel? You could have gone down that route with VenoMJ. Hell since Dead Language MJ's whole inner monologue is an unknown. It was right fucking there for an own goal. Yandere Venom stalking Peter.
Or y'know, faff around more, you're adept at that.

>>154807447
It's hard to say, it might be that is why Disney is slowly trying to remove the major people there
>first announcement was just David Gabriel and two editors that people liked, so it seemed like a typical layoff
>second announcement was Dan Buckley would be replaced
>third announcement was that Yoshida would get replaced... and that Disney would move Marvel over to Burbank, which could also mean people who don't want to make the move, won't (one rumor is that Brevoort is one of those unwilling to make the move)

>>154807299
>and it flopped
Didn't it sell pretty decently? They really should have kept it going.

>>154807541
>Didn't it sell pretty decently?
It fell off after a bit.

>>154807504
>Yandere Venom stalking Peter.
I'd like that in an AU so it can play out without 616's bullshit

>>154807547
yeah but by how much. I think one of the big reasons it fell were partly the real time gimmick, which you can knock off, and the news that it wasn't going to be permanent. That was basically loudly declaring they had no faith. Absolute hasn't been perfect but DC has been sticking to it and pushing it hard. Ultimate feels like marvel was doing it under some kind of duress.

>>154807566
It also flopped because they announce early they were ending and that just killed any drive. Whatever I am reading now is going to have an at best rushed conclusion, if a conclusion at all.

>>154807566
IIRC USM was still doing the best, the others varied but were still outperforming a lot of the mainline Marvel

The real falloff was when they announced that the Ultimate line was ending pretty far in advance, that gave people time to decide to drop it. But even then the books did better than most of Marvel's line.

>>154807584
>>154807607
So a real "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" situation. This is intentional.

>>154807509
I get what you're trying to say but there is zero chance they'd relocate across the continent just to fire someone without firing them.

Brevoort said he wouldn't make the move a few years ago, but that might've changed.

>>154801601
Marvel is highly satanic because it promotes witchcraft, false gods, homosexuals, lesbilalas, and transexualisms

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>>154802071
>when the fans are outraged that leads to better sales

oh so that's why i haven't bought any x comics since fucking 2014?

ASM#1000 presales: 400k
Absolute Batman's regular sales: 300-500K per month

>>154801601
>sales charts still show nobody buys non-Absolute DC books

>>154808831
And DC doesnt care, they do them because they dont have to deal with didio or bendis anymore.

>>154807447
The problem has been corporate and editorial but it's Disney as a whole. Disney simultaneously does not care about the actual quality of the comics but is hands on enough to want them to constantly reflect or feed into the MCU and video games and presumably wants everything to be a hit right off the bat so people are forced to make LCD slop knowing they've only got a handful of issues and it won't matter anyway.

DC benefits, insomuch as it does, from Warner seemingly either not caring enough to be as involved or too in disarray to. Granted DC's books are also trash on their own merits but they don't have to deal with corporate suits hovering over them.

>>154804525
Cue a pissed sword wielding Apocalypse showing up with Blade wielding...a mace both looking to put down mutie bloodsuckers.
Hijinks ensue.

>>154807447
I can see a boost in non cape indie comics aimed at a young audience looking for something fun to read or a western JJK/Demonhunter/DBZ or just a YA picture book.

>>154808001
But those are all things you believe in.

>>154807680
Obviously they aren't relocating just to get rid of people
But my point is that, if they believe Brevoort wouldn't make the move then why bother announcing he's fired? A lot of people were upset when he wasn't but I thought there was going to be a lot of rearranging going on

>>154808297
All this and Spider-Man new movie approaching a billion without even being out.
The Comics are irrelevant by their own making, they need good fan will to push the advertising their budget doesn't have by positive word of mouth.
They don't get it, because there is nothing positive about what they fucking do.

>>154807392
DC editorial is stupid.
Marvel editorial is evil.
Modern Marvel editorial is stupid evil.

>>154809270
Scolastic stuff always seems to do okay. A big issue with comics is still the LCS distribution. You need to be able to GET comics to BUY comics

>>154809762
Scholastic has their mafia enforcing their entrenched power in every school book sale anon, you can't compete with that kind of robber baron power.
LCS NEED positive word of mouth, but thanks to Brevoort being such a shit that's stuck to the office, the Marvel side don't get what Absolute does.
Fuck Ultimate got the good word of mouth just by showing a married Peter Parker. That X post for Ultimate announcing it has close to five million views. You're not getting that with a secret cousin or Aunt May dying for the third time.

>>154809799
What they really need to do is up their digital game. I love my floppies but the first company to get a GOOD digital distribution method is going to rake it in. How do we live in a time when superhero movies were at their height and it didn't carry over to the comics. Back when I was a kid the cartoons brought readers in by entire vans.

>>154810510
I love STAS when growing up, and when finding out about OMD and all this nonsense with Slott and the like afterwards it was like learning my favourite fictional couple had gotten divorced. It did not endear me to start fucking ASM, Joe you hackfraud.

>>154810592
It used to be that if a series had a high issue number or a lot of history it was the sign of a healthy book. I started reading somewhere in the 300s and I didn't panic or need things explained because there was a lot of shit I missed. I just followed along and the important stuff was easy to gather via context. There was sort of a lived in weight that came with the book this way. Like it had a life you were finally tuning in to.

>>154801601
>Well fans have had enough of this bullshit which is why they are now dropping marvel books and moving to DC
Are they though?

>>154810706
Yes. At least to some extent anyway. DC has taken a notable lead in the market share.

>>154802101
I would like to assume no one here is actually stupid enough to use that as their business model.

>>154810752
I would like to assume my kitty cat really did got to a farm when I was a kid but here we are.

>>154801601
Based. Superman is better than Spider-man.

>>154807299
What happened with this Ultimate Universe relaunch. It just quickly dropped in sales? I thought Spider-man fans wanted a married to MJ Spider-man? Let me guess, they didn't buy the book?

>>154810742
The market share is the percentage of the market. If the market shrinks for one side it will go up for the other, even if there are fewer buyers.

Let's say there are 100,000 buyers.

50,000 buys DC, 50,000 buys Marvel. In that case the market share will be 50/50.

And let's say Marvel loses 25,000 buyers (and these don't buy DC either). Then it will be 67/33.

If you're into Marvel, and you're unsatisfied with the direction they're taking you're not going to buy DC, you're simply going to stop buying comics. The people that might buy more DC comics are the ones that bought both Marvel and DC in the first place. But strict Marvel collectors will not buy DC.

>>154809739
The former two was my view of them back in the late 00s, too

>>154810860
Nah, it was consistently the best Spider-Man book. ASM took the short bus.
It wasn't 'cancelled' it just ended along with the whole universe, to the utter bafflement of everyone. They still say it was planned, and noone believes it as the ending was such a pace-less mess.
And whoops here comes Absolute! Better roll up with the Midnight... and no Ultimate will be back! PLEASE get reinvested again!

I haven't read Marvel since Secret Empire. I thought of giving Krakoa X-men a chance but Hickman took a big fat shit on it, so yeah. Are they still pretending the Cube Clone Steve is the real deal?

>>154810860
>>154811041
it's genuinely baffling how fucking bad nu ultimate had been handled. I think the worst offender was spiderman and the ultimates because they started off so fucking strong, but three quarters in everything started to feel rushed. but every line felt like nothing had time to properly breed.

>>154806116
>>154806129
>>154806419
The new Seven Heavenly Virtues are spite, cruelty, malice, sadism, pettiness, narcissism and sociopathy.

>>154807680
>zero chance they'd relocate across the continent just to fire someone without firing them.
New Yorkers going broke to move to LA right before being shitcanned is practically a trope

>>154812193
The ol' hoping you quit so we don't have to pay redundancy trope.

>>154812193
I thought they said their muslim mayor would make NY a literal utopia. What happened?

>>154812235
>I need to drag culcha wars into this
I thought you wanted to talk about comics and cartoons

>>154811939
He's been around, kinda. He's Flag Smasher now. Not even remotely a major antagonist, you can really tell Marvel just wants to forget about him.

>>154812258
I JUST WANT TO WATCH EVERYTHING BURN!!!!! HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE!!!!! GAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

>>154801601
Don't worry, Marvel's got a plan to right the ship. Step one: Kill off Peter Parker forever and replace him with Paul.

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I wouldn't say I'm specifically jumping ship from Marvel to DC, I've always read books from both companies and as far as I'm concerned they've both been shit for over a decade now. I've just been either re-reading older books, or buying older secondhand trades. The most recent thing I picked up was Batman/Superman World's Finest, because Waid has a proven track record writing Superman, and Dan Mora is one of, if not the, best new artists working in comics. I've been following his work since he was drawing Power Rangers for Boom. Also it's set Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths, so I don't need to worry about all the modern continuity bullshit.

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>>154812344
>and replace him with-ACK

>>154812344
>>154812503
Paul was the Chosen One! He was meant to burn it all down!

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>>154812495
Also Mora draws the cutest Supergirl I've seen in decades.

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>>154812495
>>154812533
Dan Mora just up and lifted MJ from Marvel and I love him for it.
Do it, save that character design from the nightmare they are embroiling MJ in. Don't let the flame die out.

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>>154812343

>>154801601
Not the first time Marvel was forced to merged with a parent company

>>154812578
You should understand the appeal of burning everything down for the lulz.

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>>154812543
His Rita Farr is super cute as well. I'll acknowledge he is a little same-facey and lets the hair do a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to making women look different, but when every. single. girl he draws is an 11/10 QT.314, I don't give a shit.
I haven't heart-lusted for comic characters this hard since Jim Lee was drawing X-Men in the 90s.

>>154812512
In some ways he did the most work to end BND than anyone. Utterly crater trust, patience and finally the sales of ASM right as Ultimate rises.
Good job you lying, genocidal parasite.

>>154812627
You do realize that Paul being dead only means that Marvel is going back to the drawing board to come up with something even worse, don't you? Trust me, when they're done, the hate for Paul will be a mild dislike by comparison.

>>154812648
Once that would be the case, no more.
They had their chance to finally salt the earth, and they utterly tanked it.
It is very obvious Mary Jane and Paul were meant to be actually married with biological children, and then backtracked at the last second. You can still see the Freudian slip in correspondence and the opening pages because Lowe doesn't do his job.

Now they are getting shuttered at New York and hoisted by the ear to California. Some aren't coming with them. The Shogun has been sent to Sibera for the manga division. The Mary Jane/Spider-Man relationship is everywhere else in the IP except the retarded rump state, when those in power are now under the microscope of Mouse accountants wanting to know why they are losing to DC after 40 years on top.

It's over for BND. They lost the mandate of heaven and the stories they swore would be worth the narrative covenant breaking of OMD never eventuated. Hackfrauds all.

>>154812665
>It's over for BND.
But the cook can't stop. The spice must flow.

>>154812681
Time to sell Miles to Mephisto in other media then.

>>154808903
Whatever you might say about their quality, one thing nobody can reasonably disagree with is that DC actually commits to its ongoings.

Did Spider fans actually think Marvel would retract One More Day for Amazing Spider-Man #1000?
That’s hilarious.

>>154810929
just patently false, the American comics market specifically has grown better than inflation over the last 5 years. comicsgate retards literally mistake manga growing faster for American comics shrinking because they're too stupid to comprehend that ratios don't tell you totals.

>>154812956
Nobody who knows anything about the personalities behind these changes did.
It's a editorial philosophy that came with them, it will go with them. A magic number doesn't mean squat, until BND is gone the ship will continue to hit rocks.

>>154812533
Someone post kara from the latest issue as ac1100 drawn by him.

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>>154813019
This one? With bare midriff and thigh-highs?

>>154813080
The one from the previous page and killing thighs that puts peeg to shame

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>>154813258
This one?

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>>154813312
Her thighs are nicer in World's Finest. Normally my head canon is that Kara wears exclusively white panties, but Mora makes her look cute in spats.

>>154813312
Anon...
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/154731390/#q154731441

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>>154813360
I'm gonna assume you mean this one? Because I have no idea what the hell you're on about.

>>154804525
you are STILL thinking about Midnight as if the selling point is the aesthetic
this is the problem with /co/ consuming Hickman
you see black leather
you see occult symbols
you see some freak standing in a hallway
you see “horror” and immediately start comparing it to whatever Tumblr was posting in
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MAN
Hickman doesn't need to understand what teenagers think is scary. Hickman needs ONE WHITEBOARD and approximately 14 months.
Absolute is cool. genuinely. I like Absolute. DC finally remembered that a comic can have an actual visual identity instead of looking like corporate oatmeal.
but Absolute is still fundamentally asking
> what if BATMAN but FUCKED UP
> what if WONDER WOMAN but METAL
> what if SUPERMAN but WHAT IF HIS CHILDHOOD WAS DIFFERENT
Hickman is going to ask something much worse.
>WHY IS THERE A SECOND EARTH UNDER EARTH-616
>WHO BUILT IT
>WHY DOES EVERY VERSION OF REED RICHARDS KNOW ABOUT IT
>WHY HAS DOCTOR STRANGE BEEN LYING ABOUT THE MOON SINCE 1963
>WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF GALACTUS
> WHO INVENTED THE WORD MUTANT
and then issue #7 ends with a fucking diagram
that's the difference
Absolute wants you to say
holy shit this Batman is cool
Hickman wants you to say
wait
wait wait wait
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT
that's what Midnight is going to be.
not “Marvel's horor line”
MARVEL'S SCP FOUNDATION BY WAY OF JACK KIRBY SCHIZOPHRENIA
first you laugh
then you complain about the exposition
then somebody posts the diagram
then you realize issue #2 casually explained the entire premise
then you start saying “actually Hickman has been setting this up since—”
Absolute is going to have better individual books than Midnight.
Absolute is also going to sell more for a while.
sure.
I don't care.
DC is building a universe people want to READ.
Hickman builds a universe people become CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ABOUT.
that's an entirely different drug.
let DC have their cool Batman.
Marvel is about to open the fucking containment chamber.

u alright there buddy

>>154813563
the Midnight Universe is already transmitting through my fillings you will understand when the diagram drops

>>154813557
All Marvel can do is subversive doomslop.

>>154813606
AND THAT'S WHY MIDNIGHT WILL WIN
THIS IS NOT DOOMSLOP
THIS IS RESEARCH

>>154813557
Anon Hickman let Ultimate get away out from under him, were it not for the marriage his Spider-Man run would be considered an out of focus mess too concerned with Gwensterio. Being a big idea guy is good if you get that reputation, but then you have to have this amount to something coherent.

>>154813631
I'd rather have a writer occasionally disappear into the walls trying to build something than another 12-issue event where nothing matters and everyone resets to factory settings.
Midnight is exactly where this lunatic belongs.
give Hickman a new sandbox, 40 characters, forbidden cosmology and absolutely no editorial supervision.
either he cooks the greatest Marvel universe in 20 years or the building catches fire.
EITHER WAY I'M READING IT.

>>154812905
It has to be Peter who suffers. He's the one everyone loves. THE HEARTS, ANON! FIRST, WE ATTACK THEIR HEARTS!

>>154801601
>Number 2, they’ve basically turned Marvel Comics into a testing ground for the MCU. Not realizing these two fanbases do not overlap as much as people think. MCU fans will never pick up a comic.

I'm not really seeing that angle as badly as it was at the height of MCU capeshit every summer and the books constantly rebooting, with characters and lineups resembling the movie versions. I don't read a ton of Marvel stuff, but they've had some really good recent books that no longer have that MCU stink on them. Which I take as a win for readers.

The thing that bugs me the most about Marvel currently is their compact editions seemingly focus on books from the past decade and related to works that inspired the MCU. I never want to see a boring ass Brubaker Cap or Civil War comic again.

There's no profit in being a capeshit company loyalist. Read what you like, let the rest rot.

>>154812543
I have a weird Suspicion that they want to try and make Superboy-Prime DC's Spider-Man for some reason. Not sure if they can do it but considering how Marvel's been acting if they pull it off I'd be down for it.

>>154812905
Sell Mayday and her supporting cast to someone else, just so we can finally move on and give Peter his happy ending.

>>154813557
>DC is building a universe people want to READ.
>Hickman builds a universe people become CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ABOUT.
Isn't the point to make people read more comics? By what you're saying it sounds like he's basically making the comic equivalent of theory bait video games, which isn't exactly the best way to increase readership.

>>154814468
that's the part you're missing a good Hickman book doesn't make you buy the next issue because “mystery box mystery box mystery box”
it makes you buy the next issue because you NEED TO KNOW IF YOUR FUCKING THEORY IS RIGHT
THAT IS THE READING FUNNEL
theorybait is
watch youtube video about the lore
Hickman theorybait is
read 600 pages of Marvel comics because some lunatic put a three-panel diagram in the background
if Midnight can make /co/ start screenshotting panels, drawing arrows between them and arguing about what happened years ago before issue #1—
Marvel has already won....

>>154814748
...but will that get normies to read it? The big draw for Absolute is normies can get into it easily, and /co/'s gonna storytime it no matter what. Most normies don't care about connecting the dots they just want something fun to read which Absolute does, so again, this doesn't sound like it's gonna increase readership.

>>154814799
he needs the FIRST ISSUE to make them care about WHAT'S IN THE DIAGRAM.
that's the entire fucking point.
If Hickman remembers that comics need to be FUN before they're a graduate seminar on Marvel cosmology, Midnight can absolutely cook Absolute's readership. that's how you build readership AND give the autists something to obsess over, but if Midnight becomes another 40-page homework assignment about Marvel metaphysics where nothing actually happens?
then yeah
Marvel is fucking doomed.

>>154814047
Go bury "Peter B Parker" as a christian like Paul Rabin.

>>154815026
Good idea! We can bury little Mayday right next to him! So which character killing her would piss you off the most?

>>154815054
Vladimir Putin. Good luck burying him before he invades Poland though.

>>154815084
where's amogus?

>>154814853
Sounds like Marvel is doomed then, cause Hickman needs a wrangler and if he has no editorial supervision like you said then there's gonna be a massive bunch of cosmology in the first couple of issues.

>>154815084
In retrospect this aged very well

>>154802032
Fixing OMD doesn't fix the entire Marvel setting

>>154815490
At this point, no, but it'd be a decent starting point to fixing things.

>Marvel cartoons are great
>Marvel movies are great (bite your tongue, it's all subjective)
>Marvel games are great
>Marvel comics are extremely bad and will do everything they can to keep their books lame and boring instead of giving us Peter fighting Hobgoblin or whatever
Why is this? Female readers have the entire book industry, none of them are putting down Cruel Prince to read Marvel slop.

>>154813312
>You can't hit me because we're in the pussy Undertale era
I'll be honest, I'd constantly be pushing this line too if I got isekai'd into a world that lost its edge just to see if the characters would bite back and prove me wrong

>>154813312
>>154815793
i can't bring myself to be upset at Prime's smug-as-fuck expression here.

if Conner had bothered to step up while the apocalypse was happening in the lead up to Infinite Crisis, Prime probably wouldn't have gone after him in the first place back then

>>154815490
>>154815578
It doesn't need to be fixed because it's already functioning as intended.

>>154815490
>Fixing OMD doesn't fix the entire Marvel setting
No, but it's the biggest olive branch they can offer.

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I dropped Marvel years ago and DC a few years later, around 2015. Well, I dropped my pulls and collecting new stuff. I still buy plenty of DC and Marvel, just back issues from before 2010, mainly 80s and 90s.

>>154816904
Marvel today feels fairly similar to 10 years ago, at least from what I've read. A bit better art... sometimes. Marvel doesn't seem to have very positive relationships with artists.

DC's been through multiple major overhauls since 2015, but stabilized after they finally got rid of DiDio in I wanna say 2021.

>>154817581
They got rid of Didio early 2020. It was right before the COVID lockdowns happened

>>154801601
No one believes this thread Dcuck, Spider-Man outsells your entire company monthly

>>154817705
>using Dcuck
Go back to the retirement home, unc

>>154817705
https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/62837/top-50-comics-june-2026

marvelkek, I...

>>154817756
>12 Amazing Spider-Man #30

>>154817756
wasnt venom like 99

>>154817633
Ah, gotcha.

Regardless, most of their biggest problems since 2015 (e.g. Batkek, aged up Jon) arose under DiDio.

If I were to speculate, I'd say what DiDio probably got ousted for was actually jeopardizing DC's relationships with writers and artists because he hadn't emotionally grown from the man who pushed New 52 come hell or high water. Tyrannically pushing for 5G, despite massive pushback from the staff, was one of the last things he did in his tenure. New 52 was his baby, pushed unilaterally from the top down - he was trying something similar again, probably because he was still upset about having to do Rebirth. Everyone but DiDio knew the readership would not be on board with 5G at all. I think the company had just had enough of him at that point - his personal obsessions were not more important than keeping a positive relationship with that many creatives.

If something similar had happened at Marvel I'm not sure they'd have ousted the tyrannical, obsessive DiDio equivalent. They'd probably have just forced their way through the bad idea, regardless of whether it caused them to lose writers and artists, or at the very least caused writers and artists to lose their investment in the stories they - not the editorial office - were creating.

>>154818031
Supposedly, what Didio really wanted wasn't 5G, but the ability to reboot again this time fully his own way. 5G was a way of placating WB people who insisted on diverse versions of characters and a "fake" way to placate the fanbase that wanted the pre-FP legacies back (they would get it, but be blamed for the new legacy characters being introduced). If 5G failed he could justify doing another reboot.

>>154812956
If the sales aren't what Marvel is hoping for then it means fans already figured it out and not bothering.

>>154819579
I mean, either way he was throwing a tantrum and getting ready to burn any goodwill they had from Rebirth. It's genuinely baffling unless you assume he'd convinced himself he'd been restored to his previous level of influence within DC.

The more I read about the behind-the-scenes stuff the more it seems to me that DiDio resented not just Rebirth, but particularly the fact that people actually liked Rebirth.

Morrison had pretty scathing comments about 5G, which pretty well summed up the feelings within DC at the time (he's talking both about the book DiDio was asking him to write, Superman and the Authority, and more generally):

>I questioned the desire to attribute the worst aspects of human behaviour to characters whose only useful function, as I see it, aside from simply entertaining young people and anyone else who fancies an uplifting holiday in a storybook world far from the grinding monotony of pessimism and disillusion, is to provide a primary-coloured cartoon taste of how we all might be if we had the wit and the will and the self-sacrifice it takes to privilege our best selves and loftiest aspirations over our base instincts. While that great day is unlikely to happen any time soon in any halfway familiar real world, why not let comic book universes be playgrounds for the kind of utopian impulses that have in the past brought out the best in us?
>To undermine the fundamental appeal of superheroes like Superman and Supergirl by re-casting them as anti-heroes at best or outright monsters - dragging imaginary childhood paragons off their pedestals to reinforce a fairly facile point about the tendency of real world heroes to exhibit feet of clay, struck me and strikes me still as imaginatively lazy.

If it was intentional sabotage on DiDio's part, he severely underestimated how much people working at DC cared about the characters they were writing and drawing.

Jon keeping his inexplicable age-up was actually setup for 5G, BTW.

>>154817756
>Outsold by MASK

>>154814748
>if Midnight can make /co/ start screenshotting panels, drawing arrows between them and arguing about what happened years ago
It had never happen with a Marvel book. The only type of books that creates that type of buzz are Morrison's book from a decade ago.
Hickman could never.

>>154816803
>You mean the apocalypse that was caused by the direct action of Prime?

>>154817756
>https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/62837/top-50-comics-june-2026
Most of the list are Marvel titles tho

>>154820556
he didn't know that was happening because of his actions. at the start, Alex is the only one who notices that Prime's punches are affecting reality, and everything Prime is doing before Infinite Crisis proper is at Alex's "helpful" direction. Prime was a bit mindbroken by the place they'd been trapped in before that point.

dude was replaying like the two happy memories he had over and over and over again. it's honestly kind of disturbing how oblivious Lois and Kal-L were to Prime going practically catatonic in his own memories.

>>154820567
Those lists are generally very topheavy. Like, "5 books in the bottom half combined < 1 book in the top 10" topheavy.

>>154808201
You're apathetic, not outraged.

>>154820460
Image raped marvil again.

>>154819867
I get the idea that the johns hater is him and slott, since johns, waid and snyder saved dc from didio, even if it cost johns a blacklist thanks to taylor, king and his mother from the offices, as didio being the mastermind over tranny conner kent under that retard tranny nepobaby mags.

>>154821214
It's less that creatives weren't mad and more that they didn't have much choice. DC editorial was a LOT more meddlesome under DiDio's tenure then than they are under Javins. Getting rid of Harras was also helpful, as he was notorious for it.

Infinite Crisis, Blackest Night, Identity Crisis, Flashpoint - all of them happen under DiDio.

They let off the meddling during Rebirth, probably partly because a lot of Rebirth was just, "this is what makes sense for this character," so very little meddling would've been necessary to maintain the "vision."

Javins is very well-liked by the actual creatives (already was before she became EiC; part of picking her was to appease creatives after DiDio's mess), and does not have a reputation for meddling. DiDio would have NEVER greenlit and supported something as freeing to writers as Absolute has been - the best you could expect out of an Elseworld from him was a top-down, editorially enforced gimmick world.

I'm curious how the new management and move will impact books moving foward

>>154821383
Despite what I think about Wacker, I believe he does have what it takes to get things more coordinated than the Cebulski era

Whether he learned anything since the early 10s about dealing with fans is a different question

>>154802489
During that initial rollout month yes, I'm not so sure after that. I do think the cover initiative they have for those books is smart, having definite themes that drive the cover art is a lot stronger than the really bland hero pose alt covers the absolute books get.

>>154815490
It will be a massive PR move that will help repair things. But at this point it's been so long and was memed and protected by their offices and creatives so viciously that it doesn't have any real ability to correct course.
The time to change this, to create a story about this was a decade ago.

I think they are well and good fucked and there is no way to right this boat. And they don't have a new audience that grew up during the OMD time who will replace the old. And the old audience has nothing good to say about it to any newer audience either.

I believe they are fucked.

>>154821606
>And they don't have a new audience that grew up during the OMD time who will replace the old. And the old audience has nothing good to say about it to any newer audience either.

It's not just that, it's that the new audience that is there, knows OMD is fucking stupid and needs to be actually fixed and not with a piece of shit like OMIT. They did OMD for the younger audience and the younger audience rejected it

>>154820981
Take your meds schizo

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>>154807541
>>154807566
Aside from USM sales weren't really that good. People cope that the announcement that the line was ending tanked sales but they were already rough before then

>>154821383
I think things are going to be quiet. It will be a while before we see any big changes probably but I think Wacker will probably keep a better leash.

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>>154821606
I mean, okay. Let's pretend that tomorrow we get an announcement that the marriage is back on. Peter is going to wake up and the past two decades were all a dream. What really happens next? Yeah they MIGHT start telling okay to good stories again but how do you fix a lifetime? That's what this was. Even a quarter of this would have been a long time in comics. People who were a twinkle in their fathers eye when it happened are early 20 somethings. How many people are even left to make peace with? I was 24 when it happened. So much time has passed I don't know if I can go back.

>>154822985
Shocked to see that punisher.book sold so well initially, I can't remember the last time I saw anyone bring it up

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Midnight Marvel looks bad. Midnight Fantastic Four could work but the other are not good.
Spooky Iron Man could be good too.

>>154823014
Counterpoint: the audience they expected to get for Spider-Man wasn't there. I'm getting more convinced that you could throw away everything from OMD onwards by spinning it off into an AU and no one would care other than the loss of Spencer's run, but without Slott's run being canon there's no need to fix that.

>>154801601
Both suck. I won't touch any comics made after 2001.

>>154822531
I am the meds you fat fuck.

>>154802032
Is that philosophy applied to any character outside Spider-Man? Right now there's no A-lister beyond him that I see getting that treatment

>>154807299
>They already did a new Ultimate line, and it flopped because Marvel is run by fucking retards.
It was doing well until they decided to pull the plug too soon.

>>154823645
Yeah, the under the table kind that gives everybody irritable bowel syndrome.

I see that fat slobb and damn dildo are seething again.

>>154823660
>It was doing well until they decided to pull the plug too soon.
Stop lying

>>154802071
He's right. But forgot that anger turns to apathy when it keeps things never improve.

>>154823014
they can just get back in a relationship and then get married now. why the hell would you think marriage requires fucking time travel?