I don't understand. If Fry is his own grandpa, then where exactly did he come from? There has to be an originating event, something to create Fry in the first place for him to go back and create himself. Otherwise he's just a compete anomaly that appeared out of nowhere. Like, okay, if an old man hands me a pocket watch he received from a stranger when he was a kid, and then I travel back 60 years and hand that same pocket watch to his kid self... where did the pocket watch actually come from? It'd just be getting passed from future to past for eternity, and said watch would necessarily wear down because it's still experiencing the 60 years over and over and getting older all the time. And for that matter, wouldn't Fry providing the genetic material that became his dad and therefore him cause his genetic makeup to be different, which would affect the material that he contributes in the first place, which would cause his genetic material to be different in a constant loop? My head hurts.
bro, it's just a fictional plot from a cartoon
>>154848981Go back
>>154848981And this is a discussion board for cartoons
>>154848930Don't careBootstrap paradoxes are kino and I clap every time I see one being the twist of a time travel story
>>154848930It's called a "bootstrap paradox". It's the concept that an arbitrary thing exists purely by the fact it moved through time, not because it came from somewhere finite.The Song of Storms in Ocarina of Time is an example (Link learns the song from the man in the windmill as a teen but then takes that knowledge back to his childhood and plays it for the windmill man, looping it back to him teaching the older Link the song - the song only exists to be taught to Link because the child Link played it for him in the first place and otherwise has no point of origin).Basically it's the concept of a closed loop (as in energy) or Newton's third law of motino applied to time travel; you need some kind of outside entity to actually introduce the element into the loop for it to have any sort of logic.
For a more relative example, the time code on Fry's ass only exists because Bender stole it from Lars' body and slapped it on Fry's butt while he was still frozen. It doesn't come from anywhere otherwise.
If we could actually exist in the fifth dimension we could use that to avert this (being able to manipulate the fourth dimension in order to send things back and forth through time without breaking the laws in play). Unfortunately we have no way to comprehend a world with five dimensions so understanding time travel has no way to be made comprehensible by the laws man already understands.
>>154849082Cinematic parallels
>>154848930Bootstrap paradoxes have a finite beginning but an infinite end, the idea is that they become self-sustainingLet's say an old clockmaker gives you the clock in the first iteration, you travel back in time and stop him(by accident) from giving you the original clock and, given how much it meant to you, you give the clock to the younger you, after that's first iteration, endless loops can be made without the clockmaker, while the first iterations exist whenwhere in the timeverse or whatever, most loops only remember giving the clock to themselves, this loop could also become completely stable if, for example, the clock finally degrades beyond repair and the old clockmaker could give you the first iteration of the clock while an old version of yourself sees this, getting erased from the timeline, most bootstraps are action-based paradox so there is little to worry about that could break the loop
>>154848930>>154849126Also genetics don't work like that, as long as the moment her grandma got pregnant is the same each time the genes that get passed down are always the same, he's getting half his genes from his father each time and then passing it down to his father just as he got them, none of this would've caused degradation since both he and his father married someone they are not related to, anyways
>>154849013>I clap at the TV
>>154848930the watch came from the future.depending on the time travel, that means it literally came from nothing, OR it came from another past, which is now different, and at some point in the looping infinite, some guy literally just bought the watch, and went back in time and gave it to his past self, and then every future self was trapped forever following the time paradox back to put the watch there forever after.Fry was born of his father, from his grandap, then went back in time and birthed his own father, because he killed his grandfather.if fry didn't go back, his grandfather would have fathered frys father, but BECAUSE he went back, and short circuited the loop, he now has to repeat the loop infinitly.>>154849173fry has some of his mum and grandmas DNA anon, and so does fry's father/son.the reason it doesn't matter is that if the loop ever stopped, then the universe would end, so the only universe left is the one where it DID work, and the loop continues.
>>154848930Try reading Heinlein."By his Bootstraps" or, even better, "All You Zombies"Come back after reading both and maybe you'll be able to ask intelligent questions.In the real (i.e. non-cartoon) world this is why most physicists consider time-travel is impossible. Since traveling faster-than-light leads to the same paradoxes, that's almost certainly ruled out as well.>>https://youtu.be/HUMGc8hEkpc>>https://youtu.be/1YFrISfN7jo
>>154849126>IterationsThere is only one timeline. There is no timeline 'before' and 'after' you've changed the past.
>>154849013I enjoy how they are used in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
>>154848930It's not really "supposed to" make sense, that's why it's a paradox. Same thing goes for the Bender tattoo with the time code that's just inexplicably on Fry's ass in the first movie, and the only explanation as to how it got there is that Bender went back in time, took the piece of skin with the tattoo on it, and put it there
Would you?
>>154848930It's called a paradox.
>>154849065the time code is said to allow for paradox-free time travel, so it's very possible it came from somewhere at some point
>>154850005Would I what?
>>154850005Obviously. The real question is whether you still would if it was (You)r grandma from the past. And the answer to that is obviously.
>>154848930>it's still experiencing the 60 years over and over and getting older all the timeit actually isn't, because that would be paradoxical tooassuming you could pass the pocket watch in this way, it would be an effectively identical state each time it was passed, because it had to have been passed, because that happened already from your perspectivefor it to wear down is for something that didn't already happen to happen in the past, which is impossiblein Fry's case he always was his own grandpa because he always did come back from the future and get Enis killed and knock up his own grandma in one wild weekend, and because that had already happened by the time Fry is born, it too, like the pocket watch, has to have happened that way and cannot be changedas we saw at the end of The Late Philip J Fry, the universe is cyclical meaning everything that happens is always going to have happened (including iterations where time travelers wing Eleanor Roosevelt trying to shoot Hitler) and will keep on happening; free will is an illusion and a nebulous space cloud may or may not be god, running it all, which sidesteps any need for talk of "original Fry" or that kind of claptrap, and as we saw during Meanwhile and The Impossible Stream, time can be run forward, then run backward and the information that previously existed in that 'future' can be reordered, effectively erasing the future, meaning free will is real and not an illusion, thereby sidestepping any need for talk of "original Fry" or that kind of claptrap, since "original Fry" has been erased by the reordering of information via time travelnow are you going to chow down on my hot greasy hog or not?
>>154848930Did you watch Terminator? Just the first one.
>>154848930If you went back in time and met your grandma when she was in her teens or 20's, would you sleep with her?
>>154848981But my autisms are triggered by anything that isn't completely logical! I have over nine thousand autisms and they're all triggered! The autisms are taking control of me! Must... ask... pointless questions! WHAT DO PEOPLE IN PALLET TOWN EAT? WHY DOESN'T EVERY FICTIONAL CHARACTER JUST PREVENT THE ENTIRE STORY FROM HAPPENING BEFORE IT EVEN BEGINS? WHY ARE MY PEAS AND CARROTS TOUCHING! GOTTA WATCH WAPNER! GOTTA POST THE EXACT SAME THREAD TEN BILLION TIMES OR THE MAD OCELOT GOD WON'T STOP SCREAMING AT ME! NEEEERRRRRRRR!
>>154850084It's paradox-CORRECTING, not paradox-free. Only after it's used and travel to a point in time any paradoxes that emerge from doing so end up being erased in the resulting timeline.The existence of the code can itself be a paradox, since the code isn't using itself to pass through time. So it's just stuck in an ontological loop of being taken from Lars' butt to Fry's butt by Bender's use of it.
It took me way too long to realize Enos was spoofing Gomer Pyle and how Jim Nabors was a closeted homosexual IRL
>>154849013>Bootstrap paradoxes are kinonot really. shit like that made series like marvel zombies no fun
My mom looks smoking hot in all her old photos when she was 18. So yeah, i would fuck her in a timetravel situation. Did anybody ask?No, i'm telling you anyway.
This thread gave me a migraine.
>>154848930I recently was thinking about this for extremely degenerate reasons unrelated to Futurama, and pretty quickly realized that this would basically result in an infinitely recursive section of Fry's DNA, because otherwise his genetic contribution to his own gene pool would basically iterate to infinity+1 for the sequence where he goes back in time and fucks his grandma pregnant. My headcanon now is that his unique gene disorder that makes him lack the delta brainwave is that exact section of his DNA that's just perpetually folding in on itself. What that would actually look like, fuck if I know, but it's basically got to be in there to prevent his sperm from shooting genetic soup.
>>154852941Hot
>>154852941Could it also be that the genetic material that Fry squirted out just happens to produce the same genetic material that will eventually squirts it out? A into B into A.
I always thought that Enus was his grandfather, but then when he got killed, Fry stepped in. A closed loop paradox always has to have a catalyst.Like if I go back in time and help someone invent shoes. Before I did, someone else invented the shoes. I just replaced them in the timeline.
>>154849044And now you understand The Reality. At least in terms of the Torus Principle.
>>154851039
>>154852782you always had the migraine; the thread merely provided the cause
>>154850624hard to believe Skynet was created to be a NaughtyAmerica series about fucking your friend's mom
>>154848930That's the joke gigasperg
>>154854945Well the thing I realized is that the moment you go back and fuck yourself into existence, you create an infinite loop point on the timeline. You go back to fuck your ancestor, eventually you're born, you go back to fuck your ancestor, etc. Time still moves forwards for you after that point, but there's now a point on the timeline where there's an infinitely recursive series of you fucking your ancestor in the past, adding more of your genetic contribution to the mix, and then going back with more of that contribution to fuck your ancestor in the past. You don't even need to hit infinity for this to completely and utterly cock up your genetics, but you hit infinity anyway. The only solution I could think of that could produce viable offspring that would also still just normally resemble you would be for some effect of fucking your own ancestor to fold your own genetic code in on itself, infinitely, to account for the fact that there are now infinite yous infinitely fucking your ancestor in the past. Like you're basically carrying a genetic fractal that's your exact genetic code that only meaningfully interacts with your cells at the topmost layer of said fractal, thereby seemingly just being normal DNA even though you're actually carrying around infinite proofs that you infinitely fucked your ancestor in the past.My other conclusion upon thinking about this so hard was that actually fucking yourself into existence is incredibly wacky shit.
>>154848930That's called a djinn particle. It doesn't exist outside the time loop. Something like song lyrics can survive inside the loop. Replicating dna is a little questionable. A pocket watch would eventually deteriorate, unless it gets built and repaired in the loop. But the forces of entropy would still exist - if it's built with random screws and not the same screws everytime, is it the same watch? Will the time loop fail if the watch reaches a critical point of disrepair and nonfunction, that it's not a watch any more?It's also called a bootstrap paradox. Scifi author Heinlein wrote losts of stories where a character exploits timeloops to reinvent, change, and author their own fates.
>>154852941>>154860327Desu this is probably just further proof that time travel is impossible IRL. The fact that this is even a possible outcome from traveling to the past is absurd.
>>154848930No causality has been violated. Once you change the past that becomes the new default state as long as the chain of events is preserved. So its not that he became his own grandfather. He was always his own grandfather.
>>154860789>>154860574Lol causality fags.>>154848930Quantum physics allows for acausal events to happen.
>>154860891>Quantum physics allows for acausal events to happen.Explain how.
It's called a paradox, anon.Fry's beginning is with himself.That's it.There are several anomalies in Futurama, including an entire basement full of benders for every time he went back in time to steal shit, then wait things out until he can come back to the present.Sometimes something exists in a full circle. Attempting to understand it with basic logic doesn't work, because the concept itself of time travel doesn't really work on basic logic, it works in the anomalies own logic.Don't think ti hard about it, Fry is just an exceptionally shiny retard whose genealogical tree whose branch is a strange circle that connects back into the three, and will exist for as long as Futurama exists.
>>154860327>there's now a point on the timeline where there's an infinitely recursive series of you fucking your ancestor in the past, adding more of your genetic contribution to the mix, and then going back with more of that contribution to fuck your ancestor in the past.It doesn't work that way. It's a loop. It's the same amount of genetic material every time because it's the same exact event every time.
