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Have you ever seen something so beautiful?

>>154885774
hello, rose.

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>>154885774
Is it really a hate crime if they loved doing it?

>>154885824
This genuinely makes me think what was the point of the Vaggie flashback. Like if most of them enjoyed it isn't it useless?

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>>154885844
Just to say ADAM/LUTE BAD

>>154885824
>>154885844
>Show is inconsistent
No shit. One minute, Adam and the girls are tight knit brood hyping each other up. The next? It turns out the girls are abuse victims and Vaggie has to comfort one. But then 2 seconds later, Vaggie is killing those victims with a smile on her face. But also they were sadists that loved genocide for fun. Don't think too hard, they are whatever Viv needs them to be. Want another glaring plot hole? The fact that Charlie should know sinners can't leave the Pride ring and yet she doesn't question how Vaggie was able to enter Heaven when she thought her gf was a sinner. It's all contrived bullshit.

Which Hazbin male would make the best boyfriend/husband?

>>154885898
>One minute, Adam and the girls are tight knit brood hyping each other up.
Are you actually stupid? Numb skulls like you use Adam's speech to his army in the first season as if it's proof that he was a super caring guy towards the girls. Holy shit, can you be more retarded? He's a commander leading his army. It doesn't matter if they're the good guys or the bad guys, cruel or not, you always are going to give speeches to your army. Vaggie alone was proof that they were not nice to the girls: she was their top performer and look how they treated her. Now iimagine how they treated the rest of the girls. That was evidence since the very first season. A caring leader would have asked Lute what the fuck happened, why did you de-wing one of my top girls? In the flashback, he didn't do any of that, he didn't question, he didn't even look surprised, he just spun the halo around. He didn't give two shits. That was so fucking obvious since the very first season. Only morons think he was retconned in season 2. God damn. It's like you want to be stupid.

>>154886277
People here have been drinking the dick master juice too long. They have lost the plot. Like clearly Adam was a son of a bitch.

>>154886323
Insulting

>>154886674
A handsome son of a bitch who did nothing wrong.

>>154886277
>This ass blasted
Lmao

>>154885824
Yes, that's exactly why it is.

>>154885792
Looks like a flock of pigeons. Makes me want to throw fries.

>>154886687
Anyone gay for him can goon over there no need to reply. Oh and remember to wash your hands.

>>154886674
>They have lost the plot.
They try to reconcile the fact he's been this way since season one by saying that Vaggie's recount of events can't be trusted. These people are fucking nuts.

>>154886674
He's always been abusive. Love the guy but he's obviously a caricature of a dudebro. But people clutch their pearls when he's shown to be abusive, as if he's just all talk. Fandom is retarded.

>>154886719
I just don't get the point. Like people can like shit hills all they want. Who cares? No need to sweep for them. Unless you got a few screws loose.

>>154886745
As always.

>>154886748
Probably. It's just fucking annoying to see. but u right

>>154886717
Tonight we steal the GOON.

>>154886752
Yeah most crazy people are annoying. That's why they were ignored back in the day.

>>154886745
Technically he's more shown to be complicit since he just lets Lute dish out punishment while he just chills on the sidelines.

>>154886767
You're not wrong, but it's also not far fetched to say, yeah he's abusive to the girls. We could apply that logic to Vox: he wasn't shown doing anything to Angel in season one, but him just as bad as Valentino is like... does that REALLY need to be spelled out? Glad they did either way in season two, but still. Same thing with Adam. Lute had to get the notion from somewhere.

I am still going to meatride Adam

If Adam sees exorcists as disposable then what happened with Lute specifically to make him see her as his best friend and someone worth caring about?

>>154887010
Eeeeexactly. Finally, people are catching onto the fact she's set up as a mystery.

The answer is she's Eve by the way. Not a joke. Her VA has literally said 'Lute is not who you think she is' and requoted the Lute/Eve theory before deleting it.

She's Eve. Why do you think Eve doesn't get an a voice actor announced, but Lilith and fucking Roo do?

>>154887027
If we assume that he doesn't know she's Eve then I guess he's going off a vague vibe that he knows her and likes her.

>>154887081
Viv mentioned she added the smile he gave her at the end when he died, because it was important. He either figured it out at this moment or he had a feeling: hence the hallucination, "You think I didn't already know?"

It's pretty striking that Adam's got this army of disposable women but there's exactly one of them who he listens to. And not only that but he takes input from her, accepts pushback from her (sometimes she even pushes him around physically!) and word of god is he platforms her and is the only person who takes her seriously. Why is that! When the man has such hangups with women and these women specifically are supposed to be obeying his every command. Even if she's not Eve, though I think she is, it's ironic that he managed to form an organic bond with a woman without thinking too much about it when much of his time on-screen he's talking about chasing women that never work out for him.

>>154887141
Hey, that's just how it be.

>>154887141
I struggle to find a reason why he would. Assume Eve is Lilith # 2, identical twin that cheated on him and all... Okay so that makes two women "made" for him that fucked him over. Why the ever loving fuck would he trust a THIRD one (yet again) made for him?

She's Eve. Can't be anything else imo. Unless y'all have ideas.

>>154887194
Not Eve, not entirely. She was suppose to be her replacement, but the angels saw how torn and hurt Adam was, so they instead called her his new helper, not lover, and he took it dt face value.

>>154887236
Nah. She's Eve. Genesis Eve. Abel's mother. Jessica already gave it away.

>>154887243
Eve Reincarnated, I say.
Then again, imagine a pregnant Lute...

>>154887194
The other option is he did organically develop this friendship with this woman who he really doesn't have to be nice to, which does fit with the overall themes of the show and how anyone can be redeemed, but I think there are other things going on as well. In fact, even if she's Eve it wouldn't change the idea that he's capable of bonding naturally with a woman with the right kind of personality for him. Either way their friendship is portrayed as a positive, a redeeming factor, not something twisted like Vox's feelings for Alastor.
A nice illustration of that is how Vox's Alastor obsession pushed him over the brink in the s2 finale to the point of needing physical intervention but Lute's visions of Adam actually reined her in and stopped her going further.

>>154887264
Agreed

If Lute is Eve I prefer the idea that Adam likes Lute not because he's aware she's his wife nor some magic explanation but simply because he loved Eve's personality and is drawn to her personality all over again. It's more romantic.

>>154887264
Now without Adam, she's out of control. Her rashness, anger and rage, is driving her to the point of obsession with killing Charlie and making Vaggie suffer. We shall see more in the next season and it shall be delightful.

>>154885774
so i rewatched episode six and noticed something i hadn't noticed before, during the scene where sera ports adam and lute away.

1. the person sera first looks at after teleporting them to scold them is lute, not adam.
2. lute flinches when sera says 'well, you failed to contain the demon's unrest'. it's a very slight flinch, but they took the time to animate her hair moving to react over five frames.
3. adam meanwhile doesn't have any kind of reaction until sera says 'and now lucifer's involved', where he has a similar slight flinch. he's only got three frames, where he slightly drops his head. much less elaborate.
4. lute then reacts again to sera saying 'setting up an audience for his misguided daughter', while adam stays still. this is a much stronger flinch, taking up SEVEN frames, with even more hair movement.
5. sera genuinely doesn't look directly at adam until she tells him to fix everything. isn't that weird? he's the commander! he's the one who failed! why is she looking at lute so much?

like if lute isn't eve it makes NO sense why random exorcist #5318008 is so favoured by adam or treated as having equal say and culpability in the exterminations by sera, or why lute is animated to react at all. neither her nor adam are the focal point of that scene, sera is, but they're reacting specifically anyway.

>but sera only has two eyes lol
well for starters no she doesn't but also look at the scene again - adam's placed almost comically out of sera's eyeline the entire time, until she looks to him to fix it.

Should Lute be Eve, I just hope that it has been kept a secret from Adam.

>>154887644
That's probably the case. I'm definitely feeling the only people in the know we have seen so far are Sera and maybe Lilith. The rest don't know or are too stupid to figure it out.

This is good. This relation should've been the main driver of the plot. A good writer would've seized the opportunity and make guitarprincess canon.

Having said that, TraumaTrain I know you are lurking here. Release the next chapter for "God Says Feelings are for Pussies" already.

>>154887735
Huh? You kinda came out of left field there buddy.

>>154887735
What are you talking about? The thread's discussing Guitarspear. It's a better driver of discussion and plot than Guitarprincess will ever be, which I've never seen executed well by fans. That fanfic included.

>>154887517
Pretty sure that's the case. He definitely liked Lute because she reminded him of his wife(she's actually Eve but Adam is too dumb to figure it out).

>>154887550
Thank you for doing the Lord's work

>>154887735
Stop doing drugs.

>>154888738
Do drugs and do crimes.

>>154887550
Damn, even I hadn’t picked that up yet. You’re right there’s a shocking amount of blink-and-you’ll-miss-it detail there in the scene.

I like what people are suggesting that Adam effectively slowly fell in love again with Eve again without knowing it was her.

If he’s brought back as Zombie Adam and, like I’ve suggested, retains much of his personality from the age of early man, then it really gives him and Lute/Eve the opportunity to start anew.

Upon their reunion, he takes her by the face, and wipes away the blood she’s spilt with his thumbs, saying,

> “You’re as beautiful as the day I died.”

>>154886323
>Emily
I fucking won

>>154889022
>You’re as beautiful as the day I died
It's art

>>154887550
Now this is the kind of schizo analysis I like to see, I'll check for myself later

>>154889163
yeah i feel like lute's hair specifically might be a nod to her remembering the past and hardening her resolve, like homura and her hair flips in madoka.

>the hazbin ending is lute forcibly dragging a resurrected zombie adam to a fake eden and trying desperately to keep him from remembering everything.

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>>154886323
>I could have had the sex-devil succubus if I was born earlier.
>Instead I got the strawman nerd
MIDDLE OF THE ROAD
GOTTA CARRY THE LOAD

>>154886674
I mean, who isn't a son of a bitch in this show?
Like maybe Emily? Abel?

Charlie is a dumb dumb who can barely string sentences when she isn't huffing her copium and when working with the rape victim's rapist and his closest buttbuddies.

>>154888738
Never. Bur I will strive in dropping less n-bombs.

>>154887887
>That fanfic included.

The sex scenes are so kino tho.

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>>154887735
Forgot the fucking Pic.

>>154887735
"Earn It" is a fun fic if you need more Guitarspear

>>154889669
charlie really doesn't know how lucky she had it that adam got turned into a silly rockstar type than a genuine threat huh, because eve would destroy her every argument about redemption in a heartbeat, while 'lute' cackles in the background.

>>154890005
it's okay but it's not purely guitarprincess but more like an adam harem that it wastes way too much time on if you're not interested in an adam harem. i think it also glazes adam too hard, has an embarrassing amount of references that fall super flat for me when it's clearly trying to be ~cool~ and also has adam talking way too intellectually and i fucking hate that shit.

>>154887550
Wait a minute... If on the surface level, the scene is conveying to us that she's talking to Adam, but she is in fact talking to Lute (who we assume is Eve) then.... When she says that the only reason she allow the exterminations in the first place, was she even talking to Adam then? Is my schizo theory right that it was actually Lute/Eve that came up with that idea?

>>154890174
adam DOES fucking love putting his name on shit (shit's the best). him being the happy face of exterminations (explaining why during 'sera's confession', adam doesn't appear ONCE) while lute handles the gritty logistics makes sense to me.

>>154890174
>>154890213
No, dead ass, this is most likely why Jessica said that she is a mastermind, and suggested that Lute attempts manipulation, especially with *that* dynamic, of which she couldn't say because it would be spoilers - everyone assumed she was talking about Abel, but what if she's talking about Adam?

>>154890174
>>154890213
>>154890283
Damn, is the coverup the reason Lute can't take charge now and Abel has to lead to keep the facade going?

>>154890449
More like.. her and Sera had this agreement, notice how she keeps trying to plead to her directly, and for all their discussion, all their plans, she turned around and gave the position to somebody else, her cowardly son of all people. Remember that one frame when Emily is explaining to Lute why they picked Abel over her, and Sera looks away?? They agreed on this whole thing, and then you turn around and pretend it's not in place, anybody would be pissed.

You know what they say. Behind every great man is a great woman!

>>154890484
Is she pegging him?

>>154890527
Not only is she pegging his ass, she's pegging his brain with great ideas he can take credit for if he wants

>>154890449
>>154890473

I’d say it’s a combination of keeping the facade up, but also because Lute was simply *not* the right person to be leading the army at that critical time. An emotionally compromised, blood thirsty, unhinged general ripper who makes clear her intentions to commit mass genocide at every single opportunity she gets or the soft Nepo baby? The two options aren’t great, but I’m going with Nepo baby ever. Single. Time.

And Lute’s whiny bullshit in that court only proved Sera and Emily’s decision correct.

>>154890858
Sera also tells Lute: The decisions are mine alone to make, you will remain the lieutenant.

A few things to note here, and I could be be being super schizo about it.... But "remain", that makes it seem like she was supposed to be promoted, or at the very least, she had more authority than she let on. Her emphasizing that she's going to make these decisions alone also implies that Lute did in fact have some sort of input regarding tactical/war/strategy decisions.

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Uuuuuggh, these people are in for a bad time post season 3.

I mean, it’s not their fault, I guess. I mean, they couldn’t have known, but still… ew.

>>154891167
I don't feel bad for them. Not that I'm a moral purist, I've shipped plenty of taboo things myself.. But pairing a character who is actively grieving for another character with the son of said guy, who is much younger and in the middle of her grieving is some nasty work lol especially when the creator has liked posts where it's eluded they are family. That's on you honestly. You're setting yourself up for disappointment.

>>154891191
there's something about abel/lute specifically that feels so patronising and paternalistic which is hilarious considering adam's meant to be mr. misogyny while abel has somehow ended up mr. perfect male feminist softboy.

>>154891424
Abel even literally walks over her! And Adam uplifts her, literally, when we see her climbing on his shoulders.

>>154891551
Eh, that was more careless obliviousness on Abel’s part. The guy’s being set up as someone who’s been in heaven for far too long, he struggles to really relate to the pain of others, be it Lute or Pentious when the latter first arrives in prison. That’s why his trip to Hell in episode 5 clearly appeared to stick with him and Emily. It was a much needed wake up call.

>>154891598
Yep. Sam Haft literally said that Abel is extremely sheltered, he's been in heaven for a long time. Similar boat to St. Peter, which he also said was pretty sheltered.

>>154891191
Personally, I think my biggest issue is just the fact that he is Adam's son: he's obviously painted also in a very sheltered light, but that's specifically boils on to preferences. Going back to him being Adam's son... Again, she's actively grieving Adam and it hasn't been... How many months has it been? What makes these people genuinely believe, in a non non-fetish/kinky way, thought this would happen? Literally these people, at least the ones I've seen, truly believe it has a chance the circumstances are just not it. Not only that, but in the the canon adjacent merch, Abel clearly likes Emily. Even in the show he blushes because of her. Not that I think they'll be end game, nor am I saying they are necessarily a good ship, but clearly they are the designated pair. Some of these people are delusional.

I think if Abel wasn't Adam's son, and he was just some rando like hell even St Peter, the dynamic would be easier to digest. The fact is, he's Adam's son: not only should he be grieving, first of all, but her character arc in the moment is literally hinged on her grief over Adam. She's not even finished grieving yet, and these people think her and Abel will actually get together? Lol

>>154890858
>>154890914

The way I see it, Lute/Eve is going to be revealed as the mastermind of the Exterminations. Coinciding perfectly with Lilith’s uprising, it was her perfect ticket into Heaven - depending if she went to Hell, Limbo or wherever. I think this deal was between her, Lilith and Sera.

>>154892111
And Adam's the attractive himbo frontman who doesn't know anything

>>154892120
>>154892111
Exactly

>>154892120
>'hey lute what's going on with the exterminations?'
>'don't worry about it sir'
>'okay <3 yay <3'

>>154892120
>>154892111

I could either way on Adam knowing she was Eve or not, but it’s more likely the latter.

Sure, it’d be interesting if he knew and that they had an understanding that he’d longer since moved on but they still cared for each other deeply. Lute could have gone into this thinking it was just business but couldn’t help herself falling in love with him all over again. And sure, Adam backing her plan would’ve really helped it get off the ground.

However, there’s one problem: Adam cannot keep a secret for the life of him. He spilled the tea about the Exterminations in open court for heaven’s sake! It’s how we know he ain’t fucking Lilith; he’d absolutely brag about that to Lucifer and Charlie.

We assume Lute/Eve was forbidden to tell him. It’s more than likely she couldn’t compromise her mission by Adam knowing who she was. The mission to destroy Hell came first and foremost: romance just wasn’t in the cards. Remember, she said, she ‘never got to tell him that…’ implying it was a choice rather than being forbidden.

That’s why if Adam is resurrected as Zombie Adam and is effectively reset to who he used to be than who he became, it gives them the chance to start again.

>>154892333
>However, there’s one problem: Adam cannot keep a secret for the life of him.
I agree with everything you said, and this has been pointed out to me before... But I do want to play devil's advocate and say.... The exterminations have been going on for 7 years, meaning this operation has been under wraps for that amount of time and only now he revealed it in the way he did. Meaning... Well, yes actually he is good at keeping secrets.

>>154892333
>It’s how we know he ain’t fucking Lilith; he’d absolutely brag about that to Lucifer and Charlie.
>>154892380
sure he can keep it secret generally, but when he's either agitated (the lute grab) or when he can fuck with someone (the courtroom)? he folds.

this is also fuelling my suspicion that lucifer knows lilith is in heaven, and also knows exactly why, and simply hasn't told charlie. why would adam not mock lucifer about lilith coming back to him, unless he assumes that's already known and obviously wouldn't hurt him? wouldn't that be the ultimate fucking bombshell to drop not on just lucifer, but charlie too?

now i'm wondering about an AU where adam casually mocks charlie about lilith in that first meeting, assuming she knew like her dad did, only for her to lose her shit.

>>154892458
I get that exact same feeling, that Lucifer knows Lilith is in heaven. I don't know why, this is just a hunch, and it's not proof of anything.. But if you guys see the text he sent her "sooooo ..." - I would think he'd ask her where she is? I don't know, it just seemed a little weird to me. And he definitely sounds like he's not telling Charlie something

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Was Adam the real glorified mascot all along?

>>154893382
Yes. Why is everyone realizing that just now? Abel getting his position was a big giveaway that said position does not require fighting experience. Abel himself says that he had no training. Also Adam, besides throwing a few punches, just relies on his lasers and shit. Lute actually knows how to fight. He's a glorified mascot.

>>154893431
Not to mention the constant visual of Lute representing the exterminations instead of Adam, that's also pretty fucking weird.

Adam is Lute's emotional support man
He's the Labrador in the cheetah enclosure

>>154892458
> sure he can keep it secret generally, but when he's either agitated (the lute grab) or when he can fuck with someone (the courtroom)? he folds.

Exactly. He’s not reliable enough to keep things shtum enough, definitely to the point they can pull him in deeper into the conspiracy.

If the two reunite and go back to Heaven — granted Lute will be able to stay there after whatever she pulls in S3 — they are going to be an absolute Menace together.

> “Abel… I understand your parents have reunited and are getting to know each other again, and we respect that… but we can hear their love making at 2 IN THE MORNING!! I-I live on the other side of Heaven, Abel, and I can hear it through the walls!”

>>154893382
yes and i'm hoarding all the body pillows for myself.

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>>154893382
Always hazbin

>>154893494
Abel’s elation at having his family reunited is going to age faster than discount milk.

>>154893431
to be fair, it's one hell of a punch, and he does pretty easily fuck up charlie's day.

the real question for me is where he got the fuck-off huge laser/holy light beams - someone had to actively give him those powers, since they seem unique to him but as a winner, surely he'd have the same default skillset as other winners (which hasn't been shown yet). he wouldn't have needed them prior to the exterminations either (unless there's other threats to heaven besides hell), so they must be a recent addition.

>>154893608
>Luckily there's family guy

>>154893609
He's probably used to it.

>>154893570
Lute/Eve...

>>154893619
Clearly one of the higher ups. His status as archangel is an honorary one. And they don't seem unique to him. Lucifer and Sera can do laser beams.

You know what.. I used to think Lute got upset at Peter, calling him a glorified mascot, because she was referring perhaps to herself.. But I think she was probably referring to Adam. Heaven doesn't give him the recognition he deserves, in her mind probably.

>>154893700
It doesn't matter how mediocre he is. In her eyes he's the greatest man and angel who ever lived, because she loves him. And that's beautiful.

>>154893737
Obviously. Another clue that she's Eve. According to her, he's the best thing since sliced bread

>>154893691
but then he never actually USES them until the finale. what on earth happened that made them think 'better give adam these absolutely devastating attacks, just in case'?

now you might think 'oh, adam just whined until he got his cool laser beams!' which sure but that doesn't explain how adam has the /restraint/ not to actually use any of these powers until the hotel fight. we do not see adam-tier damage across the rest of hell, at all, when HOLD the fuck up, does adam actually physically take part in the exterminations at all? why didn't vox show any footage of what adam did with his laser beams? we know he has hologram tech, was it just a hologram that observed vaggi being abandoned in hell?

did lute take on the physical weight of the slaughter so adam could keep his hands metaphorically clean and just observe to entertain himself? he does say 'you think i'd go down there?' dismissively to charlie...

>>154893494
Oh they’re gonna be THAT obnoxious couple…

> Talk loudly and make out in the cinema, and get aggressive when they’re asked to pipe down.
> Have very public arguments/makeups, treating everyone else like a captive audience.
> Constantly baby talking and calling each other pet names.
> Lute/Eve dragging around her new ugly rat dog in her shoulder bag.

They’re gonna be delightfully insufferable.

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>>154893632

>>154893848
??? He's the commander of the army, even if only just entitle alone, he's going to need something.

>>154893848
By the way, I just want to add, I agree that he's a glorified mascot. Basically what people think Lute is to Adam; it's the other way around. I think even she was the one that came up with the idea of the exterminations. Actually, she kind of alludes to this in season 2. Not only that, but her imagery is used constantly when tied to the exterminations. Adam was basically there to look pretty. But the Adam glazers hate hearing that. Just the fact that Abel alone was promoted confirms that the position does not need formal training or experience. Abel literally says he was not trained for this. And remember what Adam said in episode 1? He loves putting his name on shit... Lute probably came up with everything, and Jessica did call her a mastermind.

>>154893992
>>154894008
yeah but if he never goes down there and it's seemingly such a one-sided slaughter that hell has no counter-attack until carmilla figures it out, wouldn't that imply he was only given his holy light powers recently in response to hell apparently stepping up their game? that also feeds in well with how abel has no training AND adam's mascot status - that exorcist dying could've been a 'oh shit, adam needs to actually fight perhaps' moment from sera - or some other angel or the speaker that gave him the beams though.

>>154894094
I don't disagree, I just don't think his powers were given recently though? Unless you count within the last 7 years recent, sure. But I think you're saying that it was like.... Recent recent? Like, within the last year? So what exactly are you proposing though? That he didn't get his archangel status until now.. or?

>>154894108
either he gets his archangel status from sheer age (but it's a meaningless title as per mascot status) or he gets promoted as a result of whatever happened seven years ago. BUT his laser beams specifically are not and have never been shown being used against hell aside from fighting the hotel. so either

1. adam has unnatural and frankly OOC restraint in using said powers while taking part in the exterminations (unlikely - no symbolic/metaphoric appearances, no laser beam level damage to the city and no footage from vox. would explain why sera doesn't imagine him in the slaughter during 'sera's confession')
OR
2. adam was not physically part of the exterminations and only observed them, which leads into
3. if adam was never meant to take part physically in the exterminations, he'd have no need nor use for that kind of power.

so, the beams would only be given to him as an 'oh shit this might actually matter' measure once hell realises how to kill them.

>>154894284
>BUT his laser beams specifically are not and have never been shown being used against hell aside from fighting the hotel
??? We never see him in action besides here though, but it's obvious that yeah he would have these? I think, respectfully, you're kind of reaching.

I'm not entirely sure what you're really arguing honestly. But the explanation is as to why her image is consistently used as the face of the exterminations, I suspect is because, I suspect, it was actually her idea and he was giving credit for it. He likes putting his name on things, his words.

>>154894312
reaching for adam's soft ass so i can SMACK IT

>>154894345
Gottem

>>154894312
but on an actual note
>We never see him in action besides here though
is what i mean. why is adam kept from the action? and if he's being kept from the action, doesn't that mean he was never meant to be part of it? and if that's the case, why give him OP powers if he's never meant to use them?

like it all fits in with abel's lack of training and adam's mascot status imo.

>>154893887
How quaint. I'm looking forward to it

>>154894371
I don't think he's being kept form action though? I just mean the story didn't really have any need for us to see him in action until that point. In fact, in Charlie's book, he is being seen in action, as the one who brings about the Exterminations. He was also there, clearly when Lute banishes Vaggie, meaning he wasn't just at a distance

>>154894414
could be a hologram for observation (entertainment) purposes, as per the meeting with charlie. he explicitly says 'you think i'd go down there?' to her, which coupled with vox showing zero propaganda against adam specifically in his exorcist montage was what made me think he didn't physically take part.

adam's overall lack of presence both in-universe and out... it haunts me...

And yet, Lute most certainly was down there during that meeting. Interesting… how could she get to and back without arch angel portal powers…

>>154894478
she might've been a hologram too (never makes contact with charlie after all), or after the meeting was over she skedaddled off to the ship thing which can pass through portals. or adam just opened one for her from heaven, take your pick.

>>154894433
Ohhhh! That's a good point!!! He did say that, interesting interesting

So Eve orchestrated the exterminations, let Adam take all of the glory, negotiated positions of power for him, negotiated secret deals to protect his interests, served him as his lackey for years and now her biggest frustration is nobody else ever valued Adam as much as she did? She's the best helper of all time.

>>154894693
I think that's right on the nose. And the indignation of nobody giving him the glory she thinks he deserves.

>>154894745
>>154894693
lute/eve like
>'why doesn't anyone else care about my problematic fave :('

but really though a woman getting pissed that her man's not getting recognition despite her sacrifices to getting him there (as a proxy for seeking her own recognition perhaps) honestly would track along with eve getting a more female-critical lens or whatever vivzie said she'd be getting. adam's success is her success and she cannot disconnect the two or see herself as worthy in her own right. eternally in servitude and now the one person who appreciated her efforts and made them all worth it is gone for good...

Adam ought to do the dishes and give her a back massage for all that honestly

>>154894829
>>154894806
>>154894693
AND ON TOP OF ALL THAT, she let him fuck around and cuck her lol

>>154894693
>>154894806
>>154894829

Oh you know they’re gonna have the best week-long reunion sex when he comes back.

> (As they fly/run towards each other)

> “GOOGLY BEAR!”
> “ANGEL PIE!”
> “POOKIE!”
> “FUCK DOLL!”

> (All while the rest of Heaven and Hell try not to throw up)

>>154895064
To be fair, if he didn’t know who she was, and she didn’t tell him or how she felt, well, that’s just her choosing not to make her move.

>>154895078
Hence why I said she let him cuck her

>>154893887
>>154894398

> Emily: “Eeeexcuse me, guys, could we maaaybe keep it down just a—“
> Eve/Lute: “Oh HELL NO! You are NOT volume policing me while I’m with my husband!”

Rosie
My wife

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>>154895773
>

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>>154895804
Hmmm yes.
More.

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>>154895961
Sure thing, Anon.

>>154885774
Finally watched season 2. I was excited for Lute having a bigger role after Gravity, but then she doesn't do much of anything and her revenge arc was kind of wrapped up in the middle of the final song lmfao. Oh well, I maybe more interesting stuff will happen next season or however long this show is going to get dragged out.

>>154896163
Her revenge Arc is not finished, you know that right? They've already confirmed that. Also, her voice actor confirmed she makes it until season 5.

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>>154895961
>>154896012
>

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When are (You) going to kill demons with them?

>>154897384
Wouldn't it be in reverse? Adam seems better at drawing than Lute.

>>154898008
>Adam seems better at drawing than Lute
Where did you get that idea. Did you see his shit handwriting

>>154887550
Holy shit you're right. Sera seems to be telling LUTE "You failed to control the demon's unrest," - like she was the one who was supposed to do it. Huh

"You build something nice, you invite people in & offer them everything and they just bring violence and chaos to your doorstep. It doesn't matter how well-intentioned you are, they're always going to disappoint you."

Does it not seem weird to anyone else that Lucifer says this? First instinct is to say he's talking about Eve, or Adam (maybe Lilith if he's that much of a shit husband) but isn't that weird? What could they have done to him after the fruit, exactly?

>>154898064
Idk he seems like the type that doodles often. Having a shit handwriting doesn't mean you're bad at drawing.

>>154898130
After giving Lute/Eve the apple Adam and Eve gave Lucifer a gang initiation like beatdown while Sera started rapping and the rest of the angels were shitting on him. Lilith just watched while strangely turned on by said beatdown.

>>154898142
It actually kind of does.

>>154898158
I know people who draw really nice but have the most insane writing possible. It's like trying to read some ancient dead language. It's not exactly a 100% deal.

>>154898195
Fair enough

>>154894693
It reads as huge overcorrection for the apple incident. Dedicating her life to serving him as an inferior, not because he asked her to or wanted her to (hell, he'd be happier if she just kept being his wife), nor is she being forced, but because she, on her own initiative, decided this is what she had to do to make up for her own perceived mistake and sin. That's very interesting.

>>154898431
For the record, Sam haft said that she feels like 'wiping the slate clean', when talking about Gravity's lyrics (the flood), that this is something she feels she must do. Jessica also said that her line in Hear My Hope 'I'm here to finish what I started' holds a lot of significance for her specifically. So this may just be it.

>>154898454
I wouldn't be surprised if she was grilled and shamed terribly by the elder angels, or at least by some of them, before embarking on this. Telling her she's worthless, a failure, that she's lucky they didn't immediately cast her into the pit to burn for eternity. That she will carry the shame for the rest of her days. That she has to atone, and she's left scrambling to understand what that even means and settles on the only things she can think of: helping Adam and eliminating her mistakes.

And throughout all this Adam does not know, and cannot know, because he only Fell so she wouldn't be alone in the first place, and she can't risk dragging him down even further

>>154898454
>>154898431
>>154898470
Of course Lute is furious. Assuming she's Eve, and assuming her entire existence has been spent overcompensating for what she believes to be her unforgivable mistake, then she's devoted millennia to doing exactly what Heaven asked of her. "Angels don't make mistakes," remember? She has internalized that doctrine more completely than anyone. She was almost certainly taught that redemption wasn't possible: especially not for her. There are no second chances. There is only obedience and loyalty. Then Heaven abruptly turns around and entertains the possibility of redeeming not merely ordinary human souls, but condemned ones. Sinners. People who willingly embraced the very corruption she has spent ages trying to atone for. All they have to do is sincerely repent? Realize the error of their ways? Where was that mercy when it came to her?

I'd be angry too. Anyone would. She's pissed because she has spent thousands of years believing it never applied to her. Suddenly discovering that Heaven is willing to extend grace to the descendants of the Fall before the woman who believes she caused it would shatter everything she thought she understood about justice, duty, and her own purpose. Remember how much she was trying to plead with Sera about it? They've spoken about this shit before.

>>154898488
>>154898485
>>154898454
>>154898431
I also want it on record that in a collider review, they said the following: "Lute (Jessica Vosk) is on a path of redemption for Adam."

Looks like she was doing this for the both of them. https://collider.com/hazbin-hotel-season-2-teaser-trailer/

>>154898496
I wonder if the "path of redemption for Adam" is her believing that if she kills enough sinners she will be worthy in Heavens eyes and will be allowed to assume her old identity or maybe tell Adam the truth.

>>154897384
When Lute smiles at me (in a non-creepy way)

This all gives Eve a Helluva lot more agency than being Venom'd into a monster Roo host but people don't want to hear it for some reason.

>>154898542
It was confirmed by a former employee that Eve is not Roo. The original leaks that have spread for years in the fandom also make a point to have them separate and the show itself doesn't allude to it. Roo being Eve is legitimately pure fanon. I'm not sure why people want it. I mean, like, I guess I kinda do. It's not a bad idea on paper, but there's no set up for it at all.

>>154898508
That's exactly what I think the Exterminations were for her: aside from them being a chance to get back at Lilith and Lucifer

>>154898555
Honestly still a better option over Eve being some random lady with horns who was chilling in Hell only to suddenly shows up to glaze Lilith or Lucifer and say that Adam was a big dumb meanie. This fandom is weird AF.

>>154887550
I swear every few days one of you manages to pull up something that makes this theory just that little bit more cohesive.

>>154898701
Oh absolutely. The Eve/Lilith/Rosie twin shit is garbage. I'm glad that crap was shelved.

>>154898710
I'm (one of) the Lute/Eve schizos. I have a whole ass document of just the interviews alone. Lute is def Eve. You really don't need much more than Jessica Vosk having said that she's not who we think she is - yes, she literally said that, and then she requoted the Lute/Eve theory before deleting it.

Not far fetched at all.

>>154898715
How should we celebrate if we're right?

>>154898753
I actually have no idea. Can you imagine if this turns out right? I'm getting goosebumps

>>154898753
>>154898798
I'm mostly getting ready to dunk on delusional Holyblades. Also watch some really obsessed Adam haters start malding. Maybe watching the Lute Larpers try and spin this one but falling on their ass trying to save face. Also made some vague post implying Lute is Eve and getting ready to rub it in their faces how obvious it was. Bear in mind I'm only gonna shit on the more douchy bunch. Not gonna be an ass to the ones that are ok.

>>154898835
For me it's the Flowertunes shippers who shit on Lute. Really something for everyone in here.

>>154898840
I always found that weird since we never actually saw Eve do or say anything in the show. Like it's a nice headcanon personality ship but at the end of the day it's headcanon personality. For the average viewer there's literally nothing to gauge how she acts. Obviously Lute being Eve changes that but they obviously don't know it.

>>154898857
i still can't believe that 'maybe adam and eve genuinely loved each other and lucifer was just kidding during the fight with adam' is one of the most controversial takes in this fandom. i don't know if it's because they don't realise the implications of what they're saying or if they do and don't see the problem/think that's 'omg so deep commentary', but people really are so weirdly desperate for eve to have been trapped in an abusive entirely loveless relationship with a man who hates her for 'cheating' but forced her to bear his children anyway, then still gets to heaven regardless. why is that what people apparently want for eve while claiming to be feminist, but the controversial pro-misogyny take is the one where a woman was loved and didn't have to live a lifetime of horrific abuse?

>>154899175
Honestly I'm curious when Lute is gonna be revealed Eve how will these people react. Like are they gonna shit their pants when it turns out their glorious "feminist" king Lucifer was bullshiting and actually didn't do nothing sexual? Or will they gaslight themselves deeper down that rabbit hole?

>>154898470
>>154898470
Ehhhhh, I’d kinda hope they don’t go down that route, or at least not lean *too* hard into it.

Mainly cuz it runs the risk of shifting a lot of the “Boo-Hiss” and accountability from Lute/Eve onto a couple one-note throwaway characters in the eyes of viewers if not done well. And knowing this fandom… Lute gets white knighted by fans to an infuriating degree as it is. Shifting a lot of the blame perception onto some random douches who were mean to her will only make that worse.

Whatever hard time Lute/Eve was given, she *has* to be held accountable for her actions, both in the present and the past. And yes, she does have a share of accountability for Eden, because at the end of the day, she took the Apple. Even if the High Heaven leaders could make space for the fact she was tricked, her action had catastrophic consequences. Even with good intentions, what ultimately matters is what you did.

This is why I think, most likely, Lute/Eve went to Hell when she did and it was through a deal with Sera and Lilith that gained her passage into Heaven, taking on the mantle of Lute cuz otherwise, how’d you explain to Heaven how Eve just suddenly showed up?

>>154899306
There has to be some element of Eve being beaten down by the powers that be else we're not getting the unfairness aspect of the story that Viv said she wants to tell. Without it she shifts too far from morally grey (and make no mistake she is dark grey) and more to pantomime villain with an ego. And that can be fun but it doesn't fit what Viv said she wants to do.

>>154899414
Oh, I agree. There has to be a level of unfairness, probably towards both Eve and Lilith, since we’re talking about Eden through women’s perspective. I think we’d see that mainly through the Fall of Man/Banishment from Eden.

Eve may have thought her atonement was raising her family and starting mankind on the right track. She tried to do everything right after Eden… and her reward was likely going to Hell.

I think it just requires a level care otherwise it *risks* blame shifting or minimising Eve’s accountability/agency. Even if the High Heaven leadership is - and I think they should - forced to confront that they should have handled Adam and Eve with more grace, Eve is still a blood-thirsty, genocidal maniac who needs to be stopped.

It’s like when I see a lot of people really playing up the “Adam is the only person who backed her and why anyone took her seriously” as if Lute/Eve in Seasons 1 or 2 was this singled out/put upon outcast when, really, she just comes across as entitled. And yeah, maybe her vile, hateful personality was a lot of the Reason she wasn’t taken seriously… that and being Adam’s deputy. Not exactly Top top brass.

>>154899473
I can imagine one of the ophanim angels making a sarcastic comment regarding the reveal of her being the mastermind behind the Exterminations or - as I believe what’s going to happen - she kills Lucifer at the end of S3:

> “Yeah, well… not like it’s the *least* you could’ve done…”

> Cue Lute/Eve flying dangerously close up into his eyes.

> “Repeat. What you just fucking said.”

>>154885774
Throw me some ideas for Little Purgatory

>>154899574
What's that?

>>154899306
>And yes, she does have a share of accountability for Eden, because at the end of the day, she took the Apple
Yikes. Really bad take. The whole point of her arc is that nobody is listening to her, she was probably never listened to. Yes, she should be held accountable for her present actions, the exterminations and all that.... Not the apple. Yes, they should lean into this, a lot actually.

>>154899473
>risks* blame shifting or minimising Eve’s accountability/agency.
She was basically an infant being coerced by a 5-year-old and a. 12-year-old. What fucking accountability dude??

>>154900659
>>154900672
iirc viv's either tweeted herself or liked a tweet stating eve was the only real victim in the eden story so her being blamed for the apple by the narrative itself rather than characters within it would be strange.

>>154900760
Exactly. She's the victim. She always has been. And what she's doing now is overcompensating, and what's worse is that they apparently still blame her. I'd be pretty fucking mad too.

>>154900760
Not only that, she also liked a post saying that Eve should not only be mad, but that she should be mad enough to kill people with hammers. .. meaning yes, she's a victim AND she's apparently extremely pissed about everything that she's going to get violent and up in arms about it. Enter Lute.

>>154900772
Sorry I should have clarified: that apparently they are still blaming her for the fruit.. though her reasons are understandable, she's still a genocidal happy maniac, and that should be addressed. I'm talking about the time in Eden though. 100% a victim.

>>154900811
They point at all the misery of the world and all the depravity in Hell and tell Eve: you did that. Or alternatively Roo holds her by the waist and murmurs it in her ear.

Lute has lots of potential for toxic yuri actually it's just that larpers focus on the wrong one.

>>154901254
Honestly Roo stuff sounds too weird and manipulative. I'd just feel bad for Lute.

>>154901254
>>154901417
By that logic, they're actually focusing on the right one because it's the only one where she gets the say and agency. With Roo, she gets none of that so depends on your flavor of preference

>>154899473
>And yes, she does have a share of accountability for Eden, because at the end of the day, she took the Apple
This guy does not get it.

>>154901163
>They point at all the misery of the world and all the depravity in Hell and tell Eve: you did that
This guy gets it.

>>154901417
That's what makes it toxic. I imagine that if they leaned into it Roo would be the one with a one-sided and creepy infatuation with Eve for freeing her.

>>154901417
I understand and I'll even go so far as to say I agree with you morally.... But I'm sorry, do you know what toxic is or ..

Lute harps on a lot about weakness (she calls Emily, Vaggie and Abel weak) - Jessica Vosk also said she's heading voices plural (meaning not just Adam). I wonder if this is what Roo has told her her entire life ..

All Roo wants is to watch everything and everyone suffer and kill each other while she sips tea with her cute girlfriend (Eve) and daughter (Charlie). Is that really so bad? Please ignore the ropes, they're totally there by choice.

>>154901535
Why is this cute, actually

>>154901535
When we need him the most he will return.

>>154901545
Hell, Charlie even takes after her old lady with her whole exorcist gf thing. Atta girl.

>>154899473
>Eve is still a blood-thirsty, genocidal maniac who needs to be stopped.
She is NOW because of what happened. She didn't have any agency or autonomy before. That's the fucking point.

>>154899473
>“Adam is the only person who backed her and why anyone took her seriously” as if Lute/Eve in Seasons 1 or 2 was this singled out/put upon outcast when, really, she just comes across as entitled.

.... Okay, yeah, you're definitely media Illiterate. Because that was what Viv was referring to.

I hate when the Lute/Eve theory is backed by morons. Makes theory super bad.

>>154901601
Watch Sinner Adam bust in there to get his wife and leave Charlie behind lol

>>154901696
Epic.

Knowing Viv, I'm actually still expecting the whole Rosie Lilith twin spouse switch plotline... So realistically, what do you guys think Lute's deal is, assuming that's true? What would lead Jessica to interact with that theory and then delete it? Is she really random Exorcist #748262663 who just never got to fuck Adam?

>>154901685
Example?

>>154885774

This show is highly satanic because it has DEMONS and HOMERSEXUALS

>>154901742
I'm not sure man. Judging from the interviews and them making fun of the twin theories in HB the Rosie Lilith twin thing seems less plausible.

>>154901752
Here:
>>154899306
>>154899473

>>154901766
I'm gonna touch your ding-a-ling bro.

>>154901769
I don't disagree, but I'm also keeping the fact that it's Viv in the back of my mind. So I'm trying to half prepare for that. We at least know that she definitely wanted to do it at the very beginning at least

>>154901601
Roo fucking seething with jealousy that Eve's heart flutters for this huge fat filthy corpse of a man who reeks of sulfur and sweat but flinches when she so much as touches her.

>>154902046
She can't compete with the first man. In the end she never stood a chance.

>>154902046
I just got the mental image of a wojak Roo seething while looking at badly drawn chad Adam and Eve happy with the text "sorry embodiment of evil but the fat chud gets the girl".

One thing that trips me up about the Rosie=Eve theory is Rosie seems perfectly happy in Hell, revels in it even. She's powerful and she doesn't read like someone who's suffering through blame or punishment.

>>154902370
>>154902369
Actually though... For real, why wait until Eve? Lilith was all but ready to bolt, if anyone would have taken the fruit, assuming she didn't have free will either, why not try and tem to Lilith? Lilith? And then the way Lilith hesitates to step forward makes me think that she felt something was off, so maybe that didn't make her a good target?

For the story, I want to say Eve was actually the only one of the three that didn't have free will. It makes sense that they would make Adams a second bride without free will, as it's implied that both Adam and Lilith did have free will.

For shipping purposes though, I want to say that Roo fell in love at first sight with Eve

>>154902403
>For shipping purposes though, I want to say that Roo fell in love at first sight with Eve
Eve, bone white, covered in blood and gore. That's catnip to Roo.

>>154902403
Honestly don't buy the whole Eve didn't have free will. Seems more like bullshit Lucifer and Lilith concocted to save face.

>>154902454
I don't think she had free will come up but she was most likely completely oblivious and perfectly comfortable, but Lilith and Lucifer, being the imposing geniuses they are, concluded that she must have been unhappy without Free Will. Who wouldn't be, right? Obviously I was unhappy, therefore she is unhappy.

>>154902537
Yeah not a big fan of the idea since it's completely excuses the two Ls actions because " they gave free will". Just have them be retarded/spiteful enough not to notice that said woman had free will and they were just gaslighting her into believing she didn't have any. Have their big fuck up be an actual fuck up and not something that can be painted as good. The show's theme is redemption. Have them do something objectively bad so that they can later be redeemed.

>>154902627
No, it doesn't? It makes them look imposing and stupid since they assume that she didn't have what they had, she must be unhappy. Bullshit.

>>154902643
** That BECAUSE she did not have what they had, she must be unhappy

>>154902643
Dude not having free will is never going to be treated as a good thing. It's always universally treated as worth sacrificing the most important things ever. If that shit happens watch everyone defend the two Ls because the gave free will and call Eve stupid for not wanting it after the fact.

>>154902704
Eve has always been historically referred to as stupid precisely. For that reason. That's part of the tragedy. Removing the aspect of Free Will altogether is retarded as all hell.

>>154902713
>>154902704
Someone had to have lacked free will, and it was definitely not Adam and Lilith since they were made perfect and equal. It makes sense that the second bride, in order to not repeat what Lilith did, was not given free will. Obviously, Lucifer and Lilith think they're being heroes because no no no, her being happy and comfortable just means she's actually unhappy and uncomfortable. Any sane person would be, right? Lilith had free will, she didn't like her jerk husband.... Free will is a reason Eve thinks she's happy. We're going to save her you guys!

Not hard.

>>154902751
"Lack of free will is the only reason Eve thinks she's happy." My bad.

>>154902751
That fucking sucks dick. Again the whole "free will" is just there to add hype to Lilith and Lucifer. Having the apple give jack shit free will and the the two were huffing farts is better because it doesn't excuse them.

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Meanwhile, Lute has a big hate boner for all the Morningstar family. Are people seriously this oblivious?

>>154902788
If she already had free will, the apple wouldn't have done shit. Her having free will already is such a stupid ass take. They imposed their views on her. Their major fucking jerks. That's the point. They think they're the shit.

Is it confirmed that the apple specifically grants free will in Hellaverse?

>>154902792
i am genuinely curious as to what they think the narrative point of lute is if she's not eve, beyond fantasising about her being killed off by either charlie or lute, or becoming a simpering little apologetic wet blanket under abel/emily/vaggi/etc.

>'oh but that's just reducing her to her relationship with adam!'
as opposed to reducing her to her relationship with whoever that person happens to ship her with instead?

>>154902854
And the funny thing is, they do the exact same thing for Eve, reduce her entire character as being Adams cheerleader. When Lute is literally already doing that

>>154902800
>If she already had free will, the apple wouldn't have done shit.

Exactly. I wouldn't have done shit. Expect unleash evil and sin into the world. Which is why she would be punished and hated and the two Ls got thrown into Hell. Because the apple did absolutely nothing but fuck shit up. There was no trade off. No good part. Just a complete and total L.

>>154902842
Well, Charlie calls it the fruit of knowledge... And says that Lucifer granted her free will. Later, Lucifer reiterates this, saying that humanity was given free will. I think the wording is messed up here, or Viv is trying to be clever but for all intents and purposes, given that the tree is the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, and the fruit is referred to as the fruit of knowledge in this universe, I think they just gave her knowledge. They probably all had free will in the sense that they could leave if they wanted to. Eve didn't have knowledge. Lilith and Adam apparently did. This is what I mean when I say that Eve has free will. I'm only referring to it as that because the show does. She lacked knowledge most likely.

>>154902870
No, it wouldn't have even done that. It must have done something for them to want to give it to her. Lucifer and Lilith are complete batshit jerks, nobody is tonight than that. But to say that the concept of free will is something they made up specifically to gaslight Eve with makes no sense. He gave her that apple for a reason, the red ominous glowing apple, because it was supposed to do something. Based on the visual, Lucifer thought he was genuinely doing a good thing.

>>154902842
The story written presumably by one or the two Ls says it and Lucifer says that he gave them "free will". But it's dubious as a source and no other Angel confirms it. Lucifer definitely is also a dubious source since he might be huffing his own farts.

>>154902897
Lucifer is kinda of a dumbass. Him thinking he's doing a good thing doesn't mean it actually was a good thing.

>>154902882
Exactly, Lucifer and Lilith interpreted this as free will, that's them. Specifically. The fruit was just knowledge. Eve was probably super ignorant and naive. That's what Lucifer and Lilith specifically define as lack of free will.

>>154902936
I did not say it was a good thing. I specifically said he thinks he's doing a good thing. It's obvious Viv is going for the "uwu I'm trying my hardest but everyone misunderstands me and I end up messing everything up" thing with Lucifer,

>>154902792
The people yearn for Lute!Eve they just don't know it yet

>>154902966
No literally.
>Eve was Adam's biggest cheerleader! She loved him the most!!
That's Lute

>Eve is probably angry, hates the Morningstar family for what they did. She wants to eradicate them!
That's Lute

>She's angry at Heaven and Hell!!!! She wants to destroy everything and everyone!!!
That's Lute

>Eve's story is going to be looked at through a female critical lens like Viv said!!!!! Nobody listened to her, she had no support except Adam!!!
That's .... Lute

>>154903000
>It's all Lute?
>Always Hazbin.

>>154903204
Ba dum tss

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>>154894806
Yes Sera it's important you give him a fancy uniform and special court chair for this. No Sera I won't be participating if you don't.

>>154903344
this fanart just made me realise that adam's halo is missing a central dot, so his halo doesn't resemble an eye like lute's (and the rest of the exorcists). i wonder if that means anything or if it indicates he had a second form that would 'open' his halo-eye like emily and sera do?

>>154903838
His eye's closed because he's ignorant of the stuff going on around him.

>>154903881
if i were an artist i'd draw a 'hear/speak/see no evil' guitarspear thing where lute is covering his ears with her hands, his eyes are closed himself (while hers are open and staring at the viewer) and she's kissing him so he can't speak any evil but alas, i cannot draw...

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What

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>>154894008
How can Adam fans possibly hate the idea of Eve/Lute orchestrating all his cool stuff for him. He's so fucking loved and spoiled.

>>154904050
Oh trust, they do. They some actually do believe he's this conniving mastermind

>>154904046
This is the artist who only ships Adam with other AU versions of Adam and has like 15 of them in the stable so you can ignore anything they say about his characterisation by the way

I've seen people say they don't want Lute to be Eve because they want Lute to be the one woman who stayed but like... if Lute is Eve then Eve never left him. She always stayed loyal. It completely reframes the dynamic we thought went on between Adam and Eve.

>>154904204
It's even funnier because then they list supposed differences, or how Eve would be and it's literally what Lute is going through right now in the show.

>>154904050
because adam's a Bad Man and nobody's allowed to genuinely love him, because Bad Men don't deserve love and should suffer and die, and actually all the problems in heaven came entirely from him and heaven would be perfect if he never existed, and he manipulated sera, and he groomed lute and the exorcists, and he probably lied to the speaker of god, and he tricked god into thinking he was a good person so he could go to heaven, and so on.

i have seen all of these takes with my own eyes during my time in this fandom. again every so often a hater glazes adam harder than even his most annoying fans do.

>>154904438
Adam has exactly one brain cell that Lute holds. How the fuck is he supposed to manipulate Sera?

>>154904438
It's funny that in hindsight the extreme glazers and the extreme haters come to the same conclusions about Adam.

>>154904457
he lied to her about the true nature of humans or something because sir pentious needed to explain that humans are scared in 'live to live'. he was her 'only reference point for humanity and she blindly trusted his guidance'.

>>154894806
>adam's success is her success and she cannot disconnect the two
And she's literally part of him, flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone, their relationship is closer and stranger than anything we could imagine

>>154904496
it's the horseshoe theory in action you love to see it.

>>154904508
This is so fucking DUMB

>>154904508
That's not necessarily a bad take but Adam has no build up to that. If we had seen him doing that, trying to plant little seeds like that, that would be different. If anything, I could actually believe this from Lute, because she does imply that her and Sera have spoken about this. "You know I'm right deep down," / "Lute, this changes things." and then Sera makes it a point to tell her that she's going to be making her own decisions from now on. In retrospect, if she is Eve, then who better at knowing sinners, then the first sinner herself? Jessica did say that she does attempt to manipulate people, but it doesn't always come on her way. She may have been referring to Sera.

>>154899473
>>154899306
Right, well, everyone and their grandma's had a take on this take, so here's mine.

> Mainly cuz it runs the risk of shifting a lot of the “Boo-Hiss” and accountability from Lute/Eve onto a couple one-note throwaway characters in the eyes of viewers if not done well.

Now, I don't think you're entirely wrong on this point.

We do not yet know the exact nature of her past as Eve, but whatever the case, Lute's absolutely horrific actions *now* (emphasis on now) are entirely her own, and she has to be held accountable for them.

Done *wrong*, (because I believe there is a right way to do it) it could come off as the writers just pointing at a few rando characters the audience otherwise wouldn't care about and saying, "It's their fault, blame them. They're the true villains." Which is ironic, given this is a show all about redemption, and Sera is pursuing hers; there's an opportunity for the rest of heaven's leadership to have a chance to introspect and humble themselves.

> she *has* to be held accountable for her actions, both in the present and the past. And yes, she does have a share of accountability for Eden, because at the end of the day, she took the Apple.

That's where you lose me, I'm afraid. Her actions now? Absolutely. Back in Eden? Can't really agree. Sure, we may not yet know how much free will she actually had back then, but Viv is clearly trying to tell the Eden story from the women's perspective and the unfairness at how women (which yeah, means both Eve and Lilith) bear the brunt of the blame. That's the point - that the proportion of blame Eve bore wasn't fair.

It explains how she got where she is now, but an important caveat for everyone reading this is that it CANNOT excuse them. She has done terrible things and is going to do even more.

To quote Harlan Ellison, "I don't care if your mommy locked you in the basement. Stop doing it."

Lute/Eve is a victim *and* a villain. Both can be true.

>>154904937
>Lute/Eve is a victim *and* a villain. Both can be true.
Ding ding ding ding ding. We have a winner

I find it interesting that people here seem to hold Lute to higher standards than say, Alastor or the Vees in the sense that you all feel like you have to denounce the bad things she does before going on to talk about what sympathetic qualities she has. I promise nobody will call you a genocider for feeling bad for Lute when she's crying.

>>154905013
Yes, because she's an angel in heaven who is supposedly righteous and holy. Damn straight people are going to criticize ever-living fuck out of her. What Vox, Alastor and Valentino all have is that they are overlords in hell, and they fucking enjoy it, they love it. That's what you expect from demons. Let's not get stupid now.

>>154905048
She's a soldier angel in heaven whose job it is to kill demons and she fucking enjoys it, she loves it.

>>154905064
Yep, and as a holy warrior, she's held ti higher standards.

>>154904887
see i agree with you but these people are the type that would then go 'yes but lute's only doing manipulative shit to sera because adam groomed her into it!!!'. no matter what it must be adam's fault.

>>154905094
But why the long disclaimers that you don't agree with her before talking about her sympathetic qualities. She's not real?

The obvious answer is Lute fans are preoccupied with morals and justice just like Lute herself is, albeit disagreeing with Lute's own perception of justice, while Vee fans do not give a fuck.

>>154905096
I know, it's so annoying!

>>154905124
Oh, you're just complaining about a general fandom thing, dude.

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They're so cute and stupid

>>154893887
> Lute/Eve dragging around her new ugly rat dog in her shoulder bag.

What? Like this cute lil fucker?

Does… she strike anyone as a pet person?

>>154905962
squished adam is the rat dog and she kisses him on the mouth and everyone else hates it

>>154905962
Damnit, photo didn’t load. I was gonna post a photo of Caesar from the King of the Hill reboot.

>>154905962
> (Lute/Eve picks up her hideous rat dog and shows it off to Charlie and Vagi.)

> Vagi: “What… is that?”

> Lute/Eve: “We called her Vajie. She’s a bitch…” (fake gasps) “Like *you!”*

> Vagi: “HAHAHAHA You’re so FUCKING funny!”

> Zombie Adam: “She really is funny, isn’t she? Eskimo Kiss!” (He and Lute/Eve start nuzzling and baby talking each other)

> (Charlie and Vagi are grossed the fuck out)

> Charlie: “You two are actually disgusting!”

>>154906316
nah charlie would be like
>'omg vaggi look you were right! ~anyone who finds love in hell~'
>vaggi: -visibly craving death- '... can do anything...'

and then charlie would sincerely invite them out on a double date.

>>154906784
That's why Charlie needs to go to jail.

>>154906316
No one can blame me for wanting to watch them pull out each others hair.

>>154906784
And Lute/Eve would sit across from Vagi, kissing ‘Lil Vajie’ on the mouth.

Honestly, I buy her preferring a rat dog to her own hundreds of children.

What if they end up doing both the Lilith twin thing AND Lute being Eve?

>>154907486
Like true form Lute looks like Lilith or Roo is pretending to be Lilith while the real Lilith is Rosie?

>>154905069
I want it on my face

>>154907655
Like... I think, and just hear me out because I know it's very schizo.... But what if, basically fandom Eve: twin, blonde, Lilith with different banks, right? What if that was a false implanted memory, inserted by either Heaven or Roo, to alter Adams memories. And whoever else, all of creation. So then technically the eve we would be seeing in the book is technically (an) Eve, but not the real one. In that instance, I think it would be Roo because her silhouette matches with Lilith's pilot artwork, and when she had those bangs in that particular artwork, she had the same eyes as Roo. So the other Eve, or pseudo Eve, would be Roo. While the real Eve is Lute.

Another alternative, based on what I've heard that Viv confirmed Lilith being a fallen angel, is that there's literally two Liliths. Not a fake Eve, but literally another Lilith. Maybe something of a homelander situation? Have the backup in case the first one fails?

Again, just schizo theories. I just think it would be funny of all the theories turned out to be true.

>>154909491
Baldam

>>154910537
He got bonked.

>>154907771
>Another alternative, based on what I've heard that Viv confirmed Lilith being a fallen angel, is that there's literally two Liliths. Not a fake Eve, but literally another Lilith. Maybe something of a homelander situation? Have the backup in case the first one fails?


This makes me imagine Lute/Eve and Lilith looking at something and then another Lilith shows up saying "I did things" while smiling like a psychopath.

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Thoughts on the Guitarspear 'ship merch logo'? There's only four of these as far as I know and they're Chaggie (canon), Stolitz (canon), Radioapple (not canon, yet, but likely happening because Viv loves it) and then Guitarspear. So it's a tiny little pool that get one. No staticmoth, cherrisnake, huskerdust or other canon ships that would probably sell well. Am I tripping or does it suggest Adam/Lute is going to be one of the most important pairings to the whole story?

>>154910790
Someone recently said, in this thread or the previous one, from a secondhand source that Adam and Eve are going to be apparently the big bad pairing. If that's true then yeah she's definitely Lute, which means this logo is 100% canon

>>154910950
>Adam and Eve are going to be apparently the big bad pairing

Actually makes a lot sense since it helps calm down the "all the gay people are in hell and they're evil accusations". That argument doesn't work if the straight Adam and Eve are also evil.

>>154911290
No.. No. I mean like, they're both going to be villains and they're going to be the villain couple.

>>154911304
Yeah but it's also probably gonna be the straight villain couple ( since I don't think there's another one). I'm just saying it gonna reduce the all "gay people are evil" jokes.

>>154911342
Ohhhh Okay, now I see what you're saying. I misunderstood your initial comment.

>>154901535
I can see Roo preying on all of Eve-Lute's insecurities about Adam.
>He cucked you how many times, babe? And bragged about it in front of you? What a pig! And you stood back and let him?
>But me.. I only have eyes for you.
Then she transforms into a writhing mass of eyes and teeth and tentacles to hammer her point in.

>>154911925
Idk. If Viv made Adam and Abel straight Eve is probably so as well.

>>154912015
Eve's sexual orientation is irrelevant to Roo's desires. When you're an ancient avatar of evil you sort of take what you want.

>>154912042
Not sure if Viv has the balls to make the embodiment of evil be a predatory lesbian. She's to scared of pissing off the wrong crowd.

>>154910790
Also, notice something?

Adam’s symbol alone is already phallic by design. Combined with Lute’s horns, the GuitarSpear logo doubles as a womb, the horns vaguely resembling fallopian tubes and ovaries. So the ultimate dick and pussy Adam and Eve!

Cmoooon!

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>>154899499
> “Bitch, if you don’t get out of my face…”

But honestly, I can see this kind of interaction going on between the heavenly leadership and Charlie in S3:

> “You’re right, Princess, it’s not fair just to blame Eve for what happened… half the credit for that shitshow goes to your *parents!”*

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Post Season 3/ Season 4 adaptation of ‘Stayed Gone’ with Peter as Vox and Lute/Eve as Alastor.

>>154912042
That's most likely why Viv literally said that Lute (and Adam's) sexualities don't matter

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I remember a meme post with a pregnant Lute pic asking if she was gonna give birth to Cain. Not sure if it was made by a Lute/Eve Schizo. If not then that's some damn prophetic shit.