What they mean is women can't be held responsible for their actions

>>155024086
I think they really regret the old man in traffic scene.

>>155024086
Women are children lmaoo

>>155024248
99% convinced that was just a leftover from before they wrote Jean as the villain
And then, of course, nobody bothered to check again if killing a random civilian to aurafarm is something Jean would or should do.

But yeah, this is obvious cope from the writers. I think it's a great movie but if it has one major flaw, it's that Jean is not treated consistently. She is shown to do too many unforgivable things for the sympathetic ending she gets. And it's fine if they want a sympathetic ending for her, it works in the context of Peter's issues, but obviously they had a couple of scenes (presumably from when they were still panning with a straight-up evil villain) where the possessions are incredibly callous. Too callous for the sweet ending.

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>>155024086
.

>>155024086
>The mutant (allegory for jews) dindu nuffin
They pull this one all the time

>>155024480
Peter could have pulled the guy out of the way of the car, but the writers seem to think the MCU runs on turn-based combat or something.

>>155024480
She also almost definitely killed that guy that got flung off his bike when she did that time stop shit

>>155024480
>You are not a killer, jean
Kek

>>155024480
This is so bad.

>>155024480
They told me she didn't kill anyone though wtf.
But you know what would be really evil?
if she possessed scarlet witch or captain marvel or one of the other female heroes to rape spiderman that would be maniacal.

>>155024480
Peter could have easily saved that guy and there's no reason that Taxi should have still been going full speed

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>>155024138

>>155024480
Jean did nothing wrong, that man was a communist.

>>155024086
>>155024480
why are you people acting like no one has ever survived getting hit by a car sure it's luckily he survived but not unbelievable especially for a capeshit movie

>>155024086
She walked a dude into oncoming traffic just to aura farm.
She should have taken the bullet. Spider-Man not saving her doesn't mean he kills her. It'd be like getting out of the way before the glider hit him.
Jean should be put down like a rabid animal.

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>>155024086
they tried this same shit with wanda too
women characters can never be held responsible for anything they do unless it's positive and then they take full credit

>>155024480
Isn't she supposed to feel the pain her puppets go through?

>>155024756
She did that to look cool. She is a monster that sees humans as play things

>>155024794
She dipped right before the car hit.

>>155024662
Yeah Peter didn't even check if that dude lived lmao friendly neighborhood my ass, that's why him and jean fit together, they are both assholes

>>155024828
This behavior from Peter is even stupider when he spent the entire previous movie fighting tooth and nail to *not* let the Green Goblin and the other villains die... then in this one he is just letting innocent people die, because Marvel writers have goldfish memory.

>>155024480
This is why I will acorn any of the gooners trying to justify her actions with cutsie weeb drawings.
This isn't how Jean should be portrayed for her debut.

>>155024086
Marvel or DC, they both suck.

>>155024862
>I will always scorn
Fucking autocorrect

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>>155024086
I'll defend Jean as a character who has a chance at redemption, but I don't know what the writers are smoking. Why pretend that she wasn't evil?

It's like they shot themselves in the foot making her too villainous or saw people calling her a monster then decided to damage control.

I want to see the X-Men film calling out Jean's actions in Brand New Day so she can become a proper hero, but now I don't think Marvel has the balls to do that

>>155024086
Makes sense to me
TECHNICALLY Jean didn't kill this guy >>155024480
The taxi driver did.

>>155024480
Did you see that 65 year old man getting launch into the air by a bison? The old man control by Jean might had survived.

>>155024756
Because she forced a guy to go into incoming traffic, that's intended murder, it's a miracle the guy survived.

>>155025171
grass vs concrete

>>155025224
>that's intended murder,
the article isn't saying she didn't endanger anyone you dips just that nobody actually died.

>>155025077
>Why pretend that she wasn't evil?
saying no one died isn't saying she wasn't evil there's a reason that she wasn't some helpless girl for Spider-Man to rescue from Damage Control like he thought she was going to be when got there but someone he had to stop once again.

>>155025132
sound logic. if I push you in front of a speeding car, the driver will be charged for murder, right?

What would have happened if spider-man hadn't intervened in the tank chase? Was she going to just bomb the place, civilians and all?

>>155025270
>the article isn't saying she didn't endanger anyone you dips
Causing unnecessary pain and suffering to bystanders that have done nothing also makes Jean an evil piece of shit that needs to rot in a cell.

>>155025077
All mutants are getting rebooted following the secret wars and the replacement of Peter with miles

>>155025390
>Was she going to just bomb the place, civilians and all?
the damage control center prison don't think it had many civilians innocents sure but civilians not so much

>>155025522
People work there. Are you forgetting that the old lady in the tank was just a janitor who happened to work for damage control? She was gonna die.

>>155024756
If I pushed you into oncoming traffic, you got hit full speed, but lived, did I not attempt to murder you?

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>>155024662
She blocked his Spider-Sense and made him cum what, you thought I was going to say gay?

>>155024138
this. they dont want people mad at the stuff she did so they lie and go well she "technically"...notice the quotes also. these people are writing villain scripts for supposed heroes and gas lighting fans going :no no it wasnt bad honest, just suck it down and ship jean and spidey since MJ is tainted for decades from the cuck writing of her fake husband and life we at marvel forced." than some writer goes on about When people are enraged sales go up. so bad writers, bad company and dog dumb fans who refuse to stop buying this trash knowing its done on purpose for sales.

>>155024480
so she can force pepole to be whatever sexuality she forced on them and kill people and the wokewrong writers that took over actually unironically do not see this stuff as villainy. forced gay and killing people is not villainy by the wokewrong who took over.

coolcoolcool lemme update my notes about marvel as that file is massive with dc's. this is why I do not buy nor spend money on anything nor have in 15 years. civil war was them going lol everyone is enslaved but we larp its just a drivers licence and note in a file. oh ok surveilance planet earth 616

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Jean had a hard life.

>>155024756
She also explicitly killed one of the Hand members by impaling him with his own sword, just to take a jab at Spider-Man.

>>155026003
I'll give them that one for free. We were shown that the Hand was still evil and just working under the cover of a government agency.

Total telepath death.

>She didn’t kill anyone! She just…harmed an awful lot of people! Really badly!
I feel a lot of this could have been fixed if someone went “hey, this is a bit much…”during production. Because the “twist” and that whole last act is the biggest blunder of sticking the landing of the movie. Thankfully Spidey and Frank pick it back up.

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Jean rigged this tank to explode. This woman had nothing to do with her sister and she rigged the tank to explode.

>>155026262
Stahp she’s fine it’s fine

Yeah, just like Jigsaw never killed anyway, right, you fucking hacks.

>>155024086
And so the great secondary awakening to mugga ethics begins.

>>155026040
They should've had the Jackal as the twist villain who was manipulating Jean from the shadows. I was fully expecting that to be the case but they just made her do all of that.
>>155026276
She just needs to walk it off

>>155026003
the Hand the group of ninja who just resurrect each other all the time who cares

>>155025294
>saying no one died isn't saying she wasn't evi
Could've worded it better, but my point is that she was actively disregarding human life the entire film
>The tank rampage and bomb explosion
>Taking control of Scorpion
>The guy run over
>Freezing Manhattan
>>155025449
This version of Jean is going to be one of the main leads though

Why are we acting like it is bad for the antagonist to hurt people
The redemption requires you to do something bad

>DA PHOENIX FORCE DID IT, ITS NOT HUR FAULT
Fuck offffff

>>155026632
The movie treats her as being justified at the end by having Peter say "I’m sorry that I got it so wrong". A redemption arc requires the writer to be able to admit the character was evil to begin with, not have the writer try to justify it.

>>155026632
I think people take issue with hand waving away her evilness, not redeeming it. If she like turned herself in and she was sent to the X-mansion as a reformative measure it would go over better I think. Acknowledge that she was wronged but she did wrong too.

>>155024086
People think what Disney tell them to think

>>155024662
Indian cab drivers hate white people, if anything he sped up to hit that guy

>>155026638
>jean doesn't exist in the universe for a single second before pushing dark phoenix shit
its almost funny what she and the x-men been reduced to

>>155026632
Cuz she's not worth taking a bullet for after all the shit she did.

>>155026808
Except she is. Peter saved her soul and made her see the light. It was a rebirth

You're all pussies. Jean makes a great rival

>>155026840
I’m not bent out of shape about her actions, I think she’s great in bnd. I wanna have sex with her. I’m just capable seeing other perspectives on it.

>>155026820
If I was Spider-Man, I would have just gotten out of the way. If it's me or her, she's the one who deserves to die, and he didn't pull the trigger.

>>155026820
Do you even fucking hear yourself? This woman is inspiring messianic fantasies. That's criminally simp material.

>>155024480
He tanked that.

>>155026632
>The redemption requires you to do something bad
The redemption requires the villain to atone.
Jean got apologized to and gets away. Which wouldn't be so bad she she did spend the movie ACKin' people.

>>155026916
Think about it like this

The only person Jean ever loved was in custody. She already turned her back on the world so she is willing to destroy anything or hurt anyone to free her sister.
Then, Spider-man stops her. She asks why he would do that. Spider-man doubles down saying that she's dangerous, further solidifying who's side he's on.
So now Jean finds herself facing off against Damage Control and the hero of the people who called her dangerous before she even hurt anyone.

At the end of the movie Jean tries to force Peter to choose between being Peter and being Spider-man. She is so far gone that she thinks that being human isn't an option for people like them.
Them Peter lets her read his mind and see the world from his perspective. Jean realizes she was wrong. There's people out there like Aunt May.
Peter gave her a chance and she took it, then spent hours if not days resuscitating him.
She never had the chance to be good and once someone gave it to her she took it. Jean is the hero who saved Spider-man

>>155024086
It was the taxi driver that killed the old man, not her.

>>155025305
For manslaughter.

>>155024862
>t. Squirrel Girl

>>155026706
>>155026952
I think you guys exaggerate how much the film is apologetic of Jean's actions. Just because it switched portraying Jean from a monster to a victim, she didn't stop being a menace.whose actions were ultimately wrong. And Jean got away because there was no one to stop her, they just wanted to use her power after locking her up, and she was the one to keep Peter on life support

>>155026706
>I’m sorry that I got it so wrong"
because he handed her over to the people who kidnapped and killed her sister

>>155027079
>>155027079
>And Jean got away because there was no one to stop her
And there's that missing atonement again.
Have her give up anyway despite her powers, and it leads to her getting sent to Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters.
Jean was very easy to fix, She just needed less Harming/or more accountability.

>>155024480
Old man survived but is severely injured with a few broken bones.

>>155027239
For all we know she's taking the initiative and going to see Xavier herself, and there's the other reasons I just listed. I think the issue with Jean is that we're clearly meant to follow her future development, not to mention she'll appear in Secret Wars

>>155024756
Why do you act like no woman has ever survived a rape?

>>155026706
>I’m sorry that I got it so wrong
the context of that was about damage control
although to be fair fuck jean she didn't even explain anything to peter

>>155026840
>you're a pussy if you dont lick the feet of my kween
nah

>>155024138
Fpbp

So if someone kidnapps MY sister I can just start killing people in the street?

>>155027310
>For all we know she's taking the initiative and going to see Xavier herself
Just inventing scenes now?

>>155024086
/co/ have eyes but they don't care since Jean makes their dick hard.

>>155027313
what a retarded non sequitur, you should go see a therapist

>>155027310
The problem with jean is that she committed a bunch crimes and mayhem and got away scott free. The movie makes no acknowledgement whatsoever about what she did, even after Peter calls her out for being a sociopath.

>she was just trying to save her heckin sister
Uh ok but what about the part where they were just fucking with random peoples minds for fun in the park

>>155024480
>gets an old man to be hit by a taxi
>hehe I'm such a Scorpio uwu :)

>>155027091
So? Why did half of new york need to suffer for it?

>>155024791

It's because women are never truly evil. Only men would murder in cold blood but Jean very much had a reason to kill

seething Zendayafags

>>155027390
>So? Why did half of new york need to suffer for it?
stop moving the goalpost retard we were simply talking about why Peter said sorry he got it wrong and whether the movie was saying what she did was justified it obviously didn't

>>155027408
Wait, goo point, actually, Jean at least tried to do one good thing in this movie, killing Zendaya.

>>155024756
Nigga my grampa died shortly after falling over on some steps and injuring his hipbone why do you think an old man would just survive getting hit by a taxi

>>155027416
I dunno what you mean by moving goalposts, but why didn't jean just ask Peter for help? Why didn't she just jump bodies inside damage control until she found the guy she needed?

>>155027444
>but why didn't jean just ask Peter for help?
nta anon but Jean tried talking to Peter about Damage Control and he responded "they're not after you because you're different but because you're dangerous" which she clearly mistook as him talking about her powers and not her actions so she thought he was complicit with the actions of Damage Control and therefore her enemy. Did you people even watch the movie?

>>155027355
No you dumbfuck, the post I replied to was talking about Jean being imprisoned and forced to go to an institution that hasn't been introduced yet
>>155027362
Did she? Her sister is dead and she's all alone now. Look, I get what you're saying, but this goes one of two ways: they address it in the future, or swept under the rug

>>155027466
A. She was dangerous and did herself no favors
B. "Hi, Spider-man never my name is Jean and these guys kidnapped my sister. Can you please me? I don't want to have to abduct an old lady and use her to chaoticly drive an explosive tank through new york on a rampage and then blow up a building with a bunch people in it"

>>155027492
>swept under the rug
Not only will they do this, they already did. She didn't even apologize for what she did to mj.

>>155027492
Ideally it should have been addressed in the movie itself, to have a full story? Pretty sure all of the other MCU Spidey movies have the villain be fully dealt with in the movie itself.

>>155024480
I think what bothers me the most, is Peter was entirely capable of keeping the old guy from getting hit. Cab approsches, Spider sense goes off, he pulls the old guy out of the way, maybe with his webs, then some dramatic looking around and maybe throw in a shot of the Daily Bugle accusing him of attacking the Elderly.

>>155024448
Unlikely, they'd have been fully aware it was there. The issue was likely that it was shot early (they've said the film changed heavily during production and they didn't have a lot of core stuff locked in when camera's started rolling - they filmed the final grave scene first, shit isn't recorded chronologically), and the film's direction shifted to make her more sympathetic.

They'd have to reshoot the scene, and getting Holland and everyone else on set again would have cost a fortune. They decided it was better to have Jean as a killer than drop a few million more, and potentially delay the film's release depending of everyone's schedules.

>>155024086
so can Jean fuck herself ???

>>155027358
>see a the rapist
no thanks mr indian

>>155027515
What do you want them to do? Next scenes after she stops her evil is Peter taking a buller for her then saving his life
>>155027516
>Ideally it should have been addressed in the movie itself, to have a full story?
The film is about Spider-Man though
>Pretty sure all of the other MCU Spidey movies have the villain be fully dealt with in the movie itself.
You forget about Ghost, she becomes part of the New Avengers

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>>155024138
Pretty fuckin much.

>>155027608
>saving his life
Yeah this was completely retarded. Frank was multiple rooftops away and you cant keep blood in the body with fucking telepathy.

>>155027608
>The film is about Spider-Man though
Yes, and they decided to have Jean Grey be the Spider-Man villain for the movie, meaning she needed to have a conclusion, like Mysterio had, Vulture had, Green Goblin had, etc.

>You forget about Ghost, she becomes part of the New Avengers
I said MCU Spidey movies, not MCU Ant-Man movies; also, I haven't seen Ant-Man and the Wasp, but do they not have Ghost be defeated in that movie? I assumed Ghost was dealt with in the movie, and they just brought her back for more, first time I'm hearing that the Ghost plot in that movie was straight up not dealt with in the movie itself.

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>>155024086
You could explain her rampage more properly if she didn't just receive a vision from her sister but also stressed out she felt her friend. So, even if she believed the sister was alive, she thought she was being constantly tortured.

>>155027662
>she felt her pain*

>>155027630
She's Jean Grey, let's just say she's that powerful kek
>>155027635
I think this is just grasping at straws man. Jean was dealt with, or rather, the destruction she was causing. Unless you wanted Frank's bullet to go through her, I don't know why you would think otherwise.
>first time I'm hearing that the Ghost plot in that movie was straight up not dealt with in the movie itself
Well, she got away and was supposed to be looking for a cure for her condition by the end of the film

>>155024086
This is honestly same thing as when Magneto turned off power across the planet in first season of X-Men 97 and everyone acted it hadn't massive death tool

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>>155024086
>writer has to come out and "clarify" this because of what we see in the film
now that's just bad storytelling.

>>155024756
Ice gotten hit by a car 2 gears ago, I can still feel the difference in my right knee.

That's an old dude, im in my 20s, you think he's gonna be comfy after getting hit like that???

>>155026858
Youre wrong for your opinion and you're wrong since she's a minor

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>>155027310
>Give a way to have the redemption actually work
>UHHHH, she might of already been doing that! In my head!

>>155027771
Fuck off retard, I only said that nothing has happened yet

>>155027678
She faced no accountability (something every villain in the other MCU Spidey movies faced, Vulture went to prison, Mysterio "died", probably gonna be alive but in the context of the movie he "died", and Green Goblin got erased from Norman's mind when he got cured), so clearly she wasn't actually dealt with, the movie didn't actually fully solve the issue it introduced.

>Unless you wanted Frank's bullet to go through her
OR you could just do like the other guy earlier in the thread suggested and have her turn herself in, then in her next appearance have her start in prison and be released for whatever reason.
This sounds like a small change, but small changes in writing can make a lot of difference, it is the difference between the movie solving the conflict it introduced (which is what the movie is fucking about) and just having said solved conflict lead into another movies, *and* the movie straight up not solve the conflict and say "Want to see how this ends? Watch the Avengers movie, fuck you!"

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>>155027810
>Give a potential way to have the redemption actually work .
>Nuh uh! Nothing happened yet!

>>155027839
>My imaginary scenario is better than yours
And I'm the drooling retard?

>>155027844
>My imaginary scenario is better than yours
Summed up creative writing discussions, yeah.

>>155027814
>and have her turn herself in
Her sister was tortured to death in custody of a government organization and this has almost happened to her as well.

>>155027844
You're the one arguing against a way to have the redemption work, fixing a writing problem with the movie, with things that are not in the movie. So yes.

>>155027876
Notice how Xavier's School is yet to be introduced
>>155027887
See above

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>>155024480
So are kids meant to see this movie or what?

>>155027883
Sure, then find some other way to make her actually take accountability. Maybe rewrite earlier in the script to make so there is a specific non-corrupt place she can turn herself in at (since the writer can go back and change the previous parts, they are the writers), and if that doesn't work, they still need to come up with something, better than "She got away, fuck you, this part of the story doesn't get a conclusion, go watch the next Avengers movie!"

>>155027814
>>155027814
Why are you talking about accountability as this massive flaw? You could say Electro got off easy by only having his powers removed. You're conflating it with consequences, and the main conflict was resolved (Jean's rampage was quelled)
> have her turn herself in, then in her next appearance have her start in prison and be released for whatever reason
Why even? This is no different from her going on the run
>>155027914
I'm eating a shoe if her accountability isn't making up for her actions by becoming part of the X-Men. Marvel has it way too easy

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>>155027893
>Introduce Xavier's School at the end of the film to set up the X-Men for later to give Jean a proper redemption.
vs.
>She's might took the initiative...for another movie! Maybe!

By the way, I think you're failing to realize that if Jean is incarcerated, she is never getting out, especially if the next saga includes discrimination against mutants

>>155027933
>Why are you talking about accountability as this massive flaw?
I don't care how big you think the flaw is, it is *a* flaw (that the movie just leaves one of its main plot points hanging); you can think it is movie breaking, or you can think it is tiny, but it is a flaw nonetheless, which meas criticism of it is valid.

>only having his powers removed
I'd be fine with Jean having that, at least it would be something.

>This is no different from her going on the run
It literally is different, they're two different scenarios. One has her threat actually be countered and her face accountability at the end of the movie (which, I repeat, every other main villain in the previous Spidey movies has faced), the other is "She's gone, watch Avengers, fuck you."

>I'm eating a shoe if her accountability isn't making up for her actions by becoming part of the X-Men
Probably, yes, but then the Spider-Man movie would not be resolving its plot point, it would be introducing it and kicking it off to the X-Men to solve, which means it is not a full story. This is different from something like Iron Man 1, for example, where he story of that movie *does* end, it *does* conclude, and the next movie is a continuation; this is different because the story is not actually ending, it isn't the potential for a continuation, it is a missing part.

>>155024086
And I think they don't have brains

>>155027972
Captain America betrayed the fucking US government and became the most wanted man in the world in Civil War, then when Thanos came and he helped, everyone just forgot about it. Marvel can definitely do the same to Jean.

>>155027971
Could be a good chance to do world-building too, say the School is just starting (that's why we haven't heard about it before, Xavier just opened it now that Mutant appearances are becoming more frequent), and he sees Jean as a good chance for a first student, because the incident in New York made all ees be on her, so he can use her to get the School to be talked about, so more Mutants can come in.

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>>155024662
Don't worry, the driver hit him with the blunt side of the cab

>>155027971
I didn't even say that I'm against Jean giving herself up, just being realistic here. You expect them to introduce the X-Men before the crossover/soft-reboot?
>>155027994
I don't think it's that easy in this case
>>155027983
>the movie just leaves one of its main plot points hanging
But it didn't, you just think otherwise because you think Jean got off too lightly
>but then the Spider-Man movie would not be resolving its plot point, it would be introducing it and kicking it off to the X-Men to solve
Let's be real now, you expecting something else from capeshit? Blame the medium

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So, they are going to use Regent next, right? He is gonna use sorta reverse Spidey mutie collar, right?

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>Be mutie
>Be mind raping people all willy nilly in the park
>Lament why their mother thought they were horrible little monsters all the while
>Have no qualm terrorizing the entire city in a tantrum
Why are they like this?

>>155028040
>you think Jean got off too lightly
That is valid criticism, yes. Her actions not being handled with the weight and importance they should have is a legitimate issue with the film, so much that you (I think it was you, or someone else on your side) were saying before they "There will be accountability in X-Men", which means there is something that was left unaddressed in this movie that the X-Men will have to pick up.

>Let's be real now, you expecting something else from capeshit?
We have reached the "All comic book movies are bad, tho" argument. Very well, if all comic book movies have this issue, then this Spider-Man movie is included, which means the criticism here is legitimate.

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>>155028002
Doesn't even need to go that hard. Just have Jean, on the way to super slammer realizes they're not going there, and have I dunno a cop or whoever say there's this guy who has taken great interest in her "gift" [X-Men cartoon theme sting] and their putting into Xavier's. Hell, make it a mid credit scene.

>>155028040
>just being realistic here.
Pfft.
I didn't expect Jean to show up in this Spider-Man movie, no. I just thought, as just an extra thing to an idea for Jean's redemption, might as well introduce Xavier's School.

>>155028109
>We have reached the "All comic book movies are bad, tho" argument
No, just that characters come and go. Same can be applied to the rest of your post
>Her actions not being handled with the weight and importance they should have is a legitimate issue with the film
But they do! Now, if you want to criticize it for being an obvious setup, then I'll leave you alone
>>155028114
And I'm keeping it in the context of the film, so what gives? Kevin had this shit planned, we weren't gonna see her entire redemption in one film

>>155028225
>No, just that characters come and go.
Yes, and that is bad. If you say all of the movies have this issue, then you're admitting this Spider-Man movie is included as having this issue, which means we can criticize it for having this issue.

>But they do! Now, if you want to criticize it for being an obvious setup
If you're admitting they are setting up her getting accountability, then you're admitting she didn't get accountability in this movie, which means the movie straight up has a missing piece. Again, this is different from a movie that finishes its story and then leads into a sequel, this is a movie missing a piece of the puzzle.

>>155024756
https://youtu.be/AQQPNQ0PFSc

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>>155028244
I mean, leaving aside that this is a cinematic universe, aren't there stories with dubious characters where they simply vanish by the end?

>>155027692
Magneto intended it to harm and it's not like people would have let him get away with it, he just died before that could happen.

>>155028306
I'm interested in what stories you are thinking of, because if they do it with the main villain of the story, I'd be very surprised if they find a way to *not* have it qualify as a plot point that leads nowhere.

>>155027630
Jean is also telekinetic.

>>155026003
That Hand guy pulled the sword off and kept fighting right after, they're magic or some shit.

>>155028374
Is she shown capable of using it with enough precision to keep multiple veins sealed and pumping blood?

Jean attacked the old man after Peter refused to listen to her threat. Everything Jean does before he catches her is a bunch of heavy handed "Don't fuck with me" messages. She will assault, kill, and rape if it means getting what she wants.
Peter is oddly receptive to that, but by the end of the movie it's not like he has a choice. She is nearly unstoppable and incarceration is just going to give the government her powers to experiment on

>>155024086
Its kinda funny, these guys basically wrote the perfect intro for Sinister with BND. This could have been Maddy pretending to be Jean (or just some other Jean clone, to set up Maddy later on). Show Sinister in the epilogue doing his evil schemery smile in the shadows or whatever.
But thats why this Jean is a psycho. Its not really her. Which sets up the conflict/misunderstanding for when the real Jean is brought in.

>>155028387
She was shown using it to open and close doors that were nowhere near her location so she is pretty precise

>>155028404
It's more interesting if this Is ean is just like that from the start

>>155028387
The stuff she did demonstrated a rather extreme capacity to multitask, keeping thousands of people immobilized while making the Hand fight Spider-man and holding dozens of glass shards in the air around the director's neck at once.

>>155027528
How encompassing is his Spider Sense? The taxi wasn't goibg to hit Spidey, so would it have gone off?

>>155028387
She keeps an entire city in a telepathic hold while controlling the hand to fight Peter and moving the doors in the damage control base to lock Peter in while spinning glass around the bad guys head

>>155024086
I want to make out with Jean naked

>>155027897
A little death on screen never hurt anyone.

>>155024138
They're more valuable to society than virgin males so yes

>>155024448
>>155024480
They’ll just explain it away as a “Mr sinister already got to her” moment.

Isn't Jean not supposed to be this powerful without the Phoenix force? She's usually BENEATH Spidey in power level but here she was unstoppable

>>155026624
I'm going to take your point one step further: using Jean's power in any way unless absolutely necessary is an active disregard of human life. That 'heartwarming' flashback scene with her and her sister practicing their powers on people in the park? That is evil. She takes away people's autonomy for a meme. Compare this to Logan, where a senile Professor X does a similar thing unintentionally and is completely distraught, because that movie understands how serious something like mind control would be in real life. Funny how we can all figure out how horrible it is with Obsession, when Bear UNINTENTIONALLY mind controls Nicki, and it is unanimously agreed that he's a piece of shit for not instantly killing himself to fix it.

>>155028586
She's supposed to be omega level even without the Phoenix force, right? That means she isn't a smaller potato than Magneto or Storm.

>>155026916
She literally saved Spider-man from absolute death

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>>155024086
Hollywood writers all dark tetrad and keep writing dark tetrad characters

>>155028562
they're the ones bringing them into existence, how's that valuable

>>155024480
she dindu nuffin po baybeh

>>155024662
and he was driving on the wrong side of the road

>>155025132
BRAVO NOLAN

This all started because people complained too much about Man of Steel having so much collateral damage and Superman not focusing on saving everyone. It's how you get that stupid scene in Gunn's Superman where the entirety of Metropolis is evacuated in like 10 minutes just so the superhero can have an all-out battle with other super beings.

>>155028562
Not really. As soon as a woman goes true karen like Jean and starts hurting/killing a protected caste like Jews or LGBTumblrtards with their incompetent tantrums, even the biggest simps like (You) turn on them.
>Inb4 Prooned & Deleted
Yes, jannies I know you've deployed another bot but stop using Claude/GPTshit. It'll breach containment again and shit the server with a Shartyhack all over again.

>>155024248
Technically if he died the vehicle killed him.

>>155027351
No, you're not a pretty girl.

>>155024086
So when everyone was frozen in the end sequence no one died? No mother was bathing an infant? No car crashes killed someone? It didn't encompass an ambulance or a hospital?

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>>155024086
>She killed over a hundred!
Good
>She stole and drove a tank through New York City!
Badass!
>She pushed a man into traffic just to prove a point
He probably deserved it, and even if he didn't, that only makes her hotter
>She ruined Bruce Banner's life!
I...okay, yeah that was a dick move
>She gave an entire city bowel incontinence for 15 minutes!
Cool!
>She and Peter are sibling coded!
HOT!

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>>155024248
Why the fuck did Spidey not web him outta there? Surely his Spider sense would have detected the danger?

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>>155025077
What is trending more: Jean is irredeemable OR Peter x Jean?
>I want to see the X-Men film calling out Jean's actions in Brand New Day so she can become a proper hero, but now I don't think Marvel has the balls to do that
Meh, I'm sick and tired of the x-men. I want Jean going on street level adventures with Peter and meeting the Purple Man as either her dark mirror/rival or mentor

>>155027374
Just a bit of banter

>>155030120
>Purpleman
interesting premise, isn't he dead though? I give you that his powerset is very similar to jean and I thought of him during the Jean rapes Peter's mouth scene.

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>>155024138
TrvthNvke

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>>155024086
I am sick and tired of dindu nuffin "misunderstood villains". I want more girls who know they are rotten in media and who OWN IT!

>>155028847
Engerland production pls understand guv

>>155025908
ESL

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>>155024086
The inability to be responsible for basic consequences and all powerful genes that really are the best of humanity and all the stinky normies are just too primitive and unevolved to let them be great and powerful, justifying mind control and murders and only THEY can call out THEIR behavior, finally makes sense from a writing perspective when you start calling mutants what they actually stand in for; jews.

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>>155030130
Exactly! And since his abilities are biochemically based, he may be capable of controlling Peter. Imagine the drama if he takes control of Spiderman and Jean has to free him

>>155030164
magneto is a DOUBLE JEW

>>155030201
Yes, that’s why he’s sympathetic despite being a genocidal terrorist; he survived the holocaust. Obviously they can’t do that with everyone in the roster or it’d be too on the nose (hah) but the supremacy and entitlement and disregard for the non-chosen (with the mutant gene) around them, secluding in specific schools that also have their own special vehicles, sometimes ethnostates that use the weapons and resources of other nations to survive, it’s clear WHICH minorities the mutants actually stand in for, and why they’re allowed to get away with things.

It also brings clear the obvious answer on how to stop having the same problems in an otherwise super full society stop being mutants, stop building around being mutants, stop isolating as mutants, just be humans, and if you really really can’t, then you’re at fault not them

>>155024086
Making a grandma drive a tank through a city and shooting at people should already get her life in prison even if nobody died (there absolutely were casualties in this incident no matter how much you lampshade it)

She killed the old man and attempted to kill Mary by dropping her to her death.

This Jean Gray is a psycho evil bitch. But she is cutter than Zendaya at least

>>155024086
Quick run down.

>>155024756
She forced an old man into an incoming traffic. She knew this could cause death. Let's not be retarded here anon.

>>155024086
People have started religiously watching every last bit of MCU stuff you can just gaslight them now.

This plot hole ? Yeah, uhhh, Riri Williams fixed it in, uhhh, season 3 of the Eternals. You know the one where they teased the Beyonder and stuff.

Keep in mind. She killed people thinking her sister is still alive. Her plan to save her sister hinged on putting innocent people in danger. With her powers she could have get to the guys head and his facility without being evil. But she (the writers) is very very stupid.

>>155026986
>The only person Jean ever loved was in custody.

Oh, the police did arrested my mindraper sister? I must kill a bunch of civillians!!!!

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>>155030408
>This Jean Gray is a psycho evil bitch.
Please anon, I can only get so erect!

Did Spiderman invent anit-mutant technology and hand it over to the government?

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>>155030559
Typical Stark Jr.

>>155030177
What if he makes Peter say "Jean, YOU RAPED ME!!!"

>>155028562
As baby factories, yeah. That's not saying much.

You know it's bad when the writers start to run damage control

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>>155030597
I was thinking of it more like this
>Ignore the X-men, Phoenix and cosmic shit. Leave that for an Avengers crossover
>There is no Xavier institute, Jean remains a hood rat struggling to make ends meet and starts the show with the barest form of telepathy and telekinesis strong enough to move a coin a few inches by extreme concentration. Her main skill keeps being possessing people
>Jean arrives to a city and hoping to prevent others from feeling the loss she suffered, tries her hand at superheroics and keep trying to track the guy who murdered her sister
>Turns out she's pretty bad at it and struggles with not going overboard (how does Peter do it?)
>Catches the attention of a charming man who she can't easily read and control
>He proposes to teach her how to become a proper superhero and shows her that he has a very similar ability to hers to make people obedient
>Starts teaching her how to use her abilities but his ruthless methodology clashes with the example Peter set
>She ends up rejecting him, after which she learns that he actually wanted to harness her abilities as a weapon
>She sets to catch him but he parallels Jean in his use of people as meatshields and makes them commit crimes
(CONT)

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>>155030634
>Show turns into a police series with Jean trying to capture him but struggles because he is too skilled and she has to concede moral ground to get the upper hand
>Peter joins shortly after to support Jean and through their relationship get closer to capture the villain
>The series shows them starting to date and the mushy parts of their relationship as contrast to the gruesome detective cases Jean solves
>Show ends in climatic scene where he puts Peter in danger and Jean has to resist the urge to kill in order to win. She manages to defeat the villain but barely thanks to the power of love and Peter's help, representing the death of the old Jean by capturing the villain instead of resorting to murder
>Peter congratulates her for her growth and they watch the sunset
>Symbiote arc starts here! >>154979628

Also Jessica Jones collaborates in some cases although she displays an inherent hatred for Jean MCU Jean and Purple Man are quite similar and its already been stated by previous works that telepathy and mind control is a very rapey power

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>>155030622
>it's bad
May not be that bad. While the West shits their pants on a possible age gap and whether she is evil or not, China had Deadpool use the Obsession stick to make Peter fall in love with Jean in ads and admitted they LOVE the character.

>>155024138
No what they mean is they didn't manage to make a pure villain-to-hero and are trying to walk back after people point out she was kind of a sociopathic asshole with the minds and wellbeing of others, which is hilarious since Frank is in this movie too (granted he doesn't get to kill a single person). Just because you've bought into incel rationale doesn't mean that there's a deeper truth about women to uncover here. Hell Spider-Man didn't even give a shit when that dude got slammed by a car. The best course of action would've just been to own that he died and she was a bad person.

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>>155030667
Hope she remains evil, she's far more entertaining like that. Even if she tries superheroics, I want her taking it too far. Evil women are far more entertaining in movies

>>155027528
It could've still worked within the scene too: he realizes what's going on, last second saves the guy, tells Jean this isn't a game, and she doesn't respond because the old man is back and she's already hopping away.

>>155028067
Krakoa got what it deserved.

>>155030698
Not him but they (the writers) are saying she isn't actually a villain or evil despite all of this lol like I want her to be evil as well cause why not at this point? But they don't have the balls and it's gay
Make her evil and make her have sex with Peter in the most hottest way possible after destroying Michelle jones mind.

Nothing in this movie or how it was advertised makes sense
>grounded street level spider-man
How is Jean grey making this grounded?
>mind control decided right at the start for the ploy
Why???? It makes no fucking sense at all
>they leave it ambiguous on if ned and MJ remember Peter
Then what was the point of no way home????

This isn't fucking spider-man anymore, this isn't even his own villain STILL! this is just a set up for fucking x-men! Why???? Why can Peter not just have his own normal shit of his own villain of having to deal with the big consequences of his own decision without trying to reverse it???

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>Jean's face when TRYING REALLY HARD to beam sexy thoughts into Peter's brain
>Peter wonders why he can't stop picturing Jean's body masturbating on a bed
>thinks he must be a huge pervert
>saves people around New York while sporting the hardest most visible boner of his life
>gets called a pervert
>Jameson publishes a tabloid about Spiderman: sexual menace
>>155030789
>Make her evil and make her have sex with Peter in the most hottest way possible after destroying Michelle jones mind.
This.

>>155028562
...You're implying that women are less valuable than men that have had sex.

>>155027528
>>155030100
honestly I can buy peter being a little too shocked to act that fast

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>>155030834
>How is Jean grey making this grounded?
Simple, she isn't some cosmic threat (yet) and her skillset is quite limited. She can only possess people and has a distance limiter, and while in the other person she is limited in what she can do. She is a far cry from the mighty (AND BORING) Jean from previous versions that could telepathically read everyone's minds in a radius and control them as needed. Doesn't even have her telekinesis until later in the film while that has always been Jean's main tool.
And that is a good thing. If the villain was too wimpy, people would complain that they are underwhelming after Spidey fought Thanos himself. And if it was too powerful, they'd complain that the scope is too large to care.
So instead they made the villain a waifu and it worked.
>Then what was the point of no way home????
I agree, apparently they made a test screening where Ned and MJ remember him and the people didn't like it so they backpedaled but aren't completely willing to discard it yet.
I agree that if this was about adulthood and growing up, Peter should have moved on from his oneitis

>>155030667
>The best course of action would've just been to own that he died and she was a bad person.
Nah the movie shows Jean way too much sympathy to let her be a totally bad person. They made a mistake including those scenes, saying she didn't kill anyone is damage control. It is what it is. It's a little silly but I dont think it ruins the movie or anything.

>>155030597
>"No Jean, you Rape me!"
>*Punisher kills Jean*
>NY is saved!
*credits rolls*
Rape me by Nirvana starts to play

>>155030898
>she isn't some cosmic threat yet
But she is still a very much bigger threat than spidey should be facing alone, not even the punisher is helping with this.
>villain too wimpy people would complain
And they'd be very invalid there cause it was advertised as street-level and grounded

>>155024480
Peter not webbing the guy out of danger is the most ooc and incompetent portrayal of his character since omd.

>>155030898
>apparently they made a test screening where Ned and MJ remember him and the people didn't like it so they backpedaled but aren't completely willing to discard it yet.

Honestly I was surprised to see them fully commit to the end of NWH. I'm glad they did, but it is still a little shocking that they really make everyone forget Peter. They didn't cop out, they didn't break the spell and he didn't immediately connect with Ned and MJ again. Peter starts the movie alone and really, he ends it pretty alone too. He forms a very weak bond with Ned and MJ again but I can't say they didn't commit to the fallout of NWH.

>>155024480
What if Jean genuinely didn't know a taxi was coming and she was just trying to aura farm in the street

>>155030973
he was just told the villains knows his identity and is on the way to MJ
and I imagine it's not easy to switch your perception from "this guy is my enemy" to "this guy is a civilian about to die" when you're already stressed out
Peter being a mess is the plot of the movie, I dont think it's a big deal he let this guy eat a taxi.

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>>155024086
>smelly girl failure hobo Jean
>Living on the streets with the same boots for years
>Unable to take a proper bath at times
>Peter takes the boots off for her
IMAGINE THE SMELL! Ponder the aroma!

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I love the Japanese song!
https://youtu.be/UZ4an60Zmvc
>"I know love through knowing loneliness
>Using all five senses, saving you
>Means saving me too
>After all, we're just people connecting

>Beyond an "I-I-I-I love you"
>I'm not alone anymore
>Clear the darkness by being upbeat
>I hold your words in my heart, yeah

>(Beyond an "I-I-I-I love you")
>(I'm not alone anymore)
>(Clear the darkness by being upbeat)

>And when the wounds in my heart have already started to hurt
>What will you save with this sacrifice?
>It's all completely inevitable
>My righteousness lies here

>Breathe, be aware
>That the cruel pain of living has a meaning
>While believing at the same time
>That nothing can be done
>And I fight again today

>Take me by surprise
>I just keep myself updated
>I sing and swing in the rain
>I hold your words in my heart

>A dream of a person wrapped in a cocoon
>Shaking hands with hope
>Looking in the mirror once again
>At a brand new me

>Beyond an "I love you"
>I'm not alone anymore
>Clear the darkness by being upbeat
>I hold your words in my heart

>Take me by surprise
>I just keep myself updated
>I sing and swing in the rain
>I hold your words in my heart

>Beyond an "I love you", ooh
>I'm not alone anymore"

>>155030989
than she wold have say
"SIX SEEVEEEENNNNN"

It's understandable why Peter couldn't stop the civilian from being hit, his senses and webbing are all fucked from the mutation.
But even if he could control them and it still happened, he'd be let off the hook like with the mass surveillance thing, Injuring a cop, not actually stopping the terrorist that just fucked all around

>>155031552
He also just controls the mutation, how? Don't worry about it
Mj and nod forgot about him? Well now they might just remember
How is he able to block jean out of his head? Cause he just fucking wills it

>>155031581
>nod
Ned*

>>155031581
>How is he able to block jean out of his head? Cause he just fucking wills it
I know the reason is o the movie doesn't end in two second but we estabilished now that MCU Spiderman is somewhat resistant to telepath powers. Can't wait to see how it gets ignored in future movies.

>>155031617
He's also moving inside said zone where Jean stopped everyone's movements, so he's just really resistant to telepaths somehow.

>>155024086
Okay, I don't think they read what they write.

>>155031748
Probably made using ChatGPT

>>155026986
>She never had the chance to be good and once someone gave it to her she took it.

What is she, a child? Even if she had to be evil (she didn't), she didn't have to sexually assault someone. That was a choice.

There's one part of the chase scene that is just rent free in my head
And you let me know if you feel the same way. one of the women completely oversold her move, like full on fuckin popped and locked it, It was really immersion breaking like I was instantly very aware this is an actress with a hip hop dancing background

And I bet because that scene had so many moving parts that needed to be staged they couldn't keep reshooting it

>>155026986
Nope, once you begin to attack and hurt innocent people who never did you any wrong you lost the right to call yourself a victim. This bitch gets into the MINDS of people, she knows good and bad, she chooses to be an evil cunt

>>155030989
It's a road in the middle of a busy city. Even if she genuinely was oblivious it's still fucked up.

>>155031791
Chat wouldn't make such obvious mistakes. The writers are just bad.

>>155024086
>she "technically" isn't responsible
Hu-huh. I haven't seen this, nor do I care to but this read like Bullshit talk /20

>>155030998
Peter in the comics resolves to do good even when it's certain he will feel bad about his loved ones in immediate danger. It's his staple characteristic.

>>155028067
"Didn't you call someone a nigger once?"

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Jean also raped MJ by taking control of her body and Peter by kissing him under false pretense.
Jean should let Peter rape her in turn so they are even!

>>155028412
We still don't know mechanically how that works. Every person could take equal concentration, or for some she could just say, "Don't move," and not have to worry. Could even be that she just gives high-level commands and the person's innate capability takes over. "Fight Spider-Man," "Got it, boss."

>>155028598
>She takes away people's autonomy for a meme
Instagram?

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>>155024480
I don't know dudes ...

>>155024480
He tanked that shit, he's okay

Knull did nothing wrong. Phoenix force is trash

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>>155024086
She is fuckable so she gets a pass!

>>155027357
It’s exclusively the weeb art and even then I can imagine hotter redheads

>>155027408
What is there to seethe about? Michelle Jones will get her memories back, she will get back with Peter, the next movie will be called Spider-Man: Wedding Day. They aren't going to split up the characters played by the most powerful couple in Hollywood to appease a small number of racist chuds.

>>155030698
Then don't make her a hero at all
Her doing evil shit yet expecting us to see her as good pisses me off

>>155035379
>Spider-Man: Wedding Day
Is that one confirmed?

>>155035483
I spoke with Fiege. All the "oh Jean Grey isn't a minor" is just chaff because a MCU property is not going to have the main bad guy who attempts murder and commits terrorism be a minor. It's not there to encourage shipping. He actually hates the pairing, says it came out of nowhere but right now his mind is focused on Doomsday/Secret Wars and plotting out the Mutant Saga which originally would have had Peter as a supporting character but the backlash towards the PeterJean ship has led him to reduce it. He doesn't want to encourage it at all. Michelle was always end game. Always. NWH was just there to make people anticipate the sequel and to add in more "Parker luck"

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>>155035551
If true that sucks, should follow the example of China >>155030664 . No wonder they're now THE world power since they are more civilized and embraced Peter x Jean instead of following a woke script.

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I love her and hope she keeps doing evil shit in the following movies

>>155024480
it's fine he's only a human after all.

>>155024086
If they didn't want her to be a killer they shouldn't have had her do so many dangerous and destructive things that would kill all the people in the area. Even if the writers want to be pedantic and insist that everyone miraculously survived or no one that died was specifically harmed by something Jean chose to do, but then died anyway, she's still responsible and her entire plan is still retarded and extremely dangerous to all the innocent people she got involved for no fucking reason.

>>155024862
Jean being a sociopath has only intensified my gooning.

I guess I owe an apology to the female gender for shitting on Sixty Shades

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>>155036480
Agreed, I just can't stop gooning to her beautiful pale body and picture her with a fiery bush down there. Stinky loser hobbo sociopath girls are the hottest!

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>>155024086
>the buildings she destroyed throughout the movie

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>>155036598
Wow, she looks like that?!?

>>155024480
They technically died outside of Jeans control if she released control as he was hit.
Thats a valid legal opinion in the US that absolves her of any consequences
Jean didn't kill anyone

>>155024756
thats not how the law works there is differences between like intent to murder, manslaughter, etc, but the intent here would definitely be categorized as intennding to kill.

>>155025077
the problem people have a hard time articulatinng is the movie intentionally makes a red harring so you intentionally think a malicious villain is targetting spiderman on purposse.The actionss that happen identically map to that, it makes no difference whenn the plot twist reveals it was a traumatized telepath the actions are the same as a malicious villain. The only difference becomes she was targeting spiderman specifically out of sadistic curiosity like a cat with a mouse and she used innocent people to avenge her sister. But due to the red harring and plot twist of the writing framing her youre supposed to think that justifies everything like "oh ok SO SHES NOT A VILLAIN"
but thats not how human reasoning works. Shes still a villain just a mentally unstable young lady its like trying to say the mutating kid in akira is innocent because he was angry and scorned.

>>155027079
>damage control still exists as an institution
>jeann grey is still free and got away
>no justice was dispensed to anyone
nope not exaggerating at all

>>155024086
Either they writers are schizos or doing scenes so piecemeal and out of order on the fly they completely forget what the script is or what their other team members are doing.

>make a lengthy point during the Scorpion fight that there was a living, breathing person in that cop car who Peter could have killed in his reckless disregard for collateral damage, he's wracked with guilt and anguish
>meanwhile Jean is just absolutely fucking up the city with tanks and Hulks, able to suspend everyone nearby but not the vehicles too for no reason, doing >>155024480 while Peter stands there with his thumb up his ass

>Peter makes a point to apologize for kissing MJ while she was possessed, acknowledging that it was a kinda creepy violation
>He never takes it up with Jean (or her jumping MJ off the building), also MJ waves it off because she didn't remember being kissed so it's fine
What in the pudding pop are these hacks on? They need tard wranglers.

>>155035551
>I spoke with Fiege.
What's it like kissing the rim of the toilet?

>>155039257
It's starving artist writing. Spidey is all about responsibility, his stuff involves it. Jean is about other stuff, responsibility would just get in the way. In the minds of the writing staff, you are intentionally missing the point and destroying fine cinema by asking either to be designed with the other in mind. From every other point of view, this is the equivalent of an autistic child ranting that someone let their peas and sushi touch on their dinner plate.

>>155039731
>Spidey is all about responsibility
>doesn't responsibly stop a man from walking into the street
And everything you said falls apart the moment Peter acts irresponsible.

>>155037998
lol right if I run you over in a car its not my car forcing you to splat on the pavement and crack your skull its the forces of nature that siezed control over you after my car instigating the causal chain of reaction that lead to that it was not me and my car doing the killing it was the pavement, wind, and gravity.

>>155033133
To be fair, I was struck by a car like that once when I was in my way to my University, and aside of a bruise in my left ankle, hip, elbow, wrist, arm and shoulder, I was walking again two days later (albeit, the doctors told me to wait another one just to be sure). I also got scars over my left eyebrow and at the side of my left eye since I hit the concrete face first.

TeCHNiCaLLy JiGSaW NeVeR KiLLeD aNyoNe

Remember how the entirety of Team Cap got locked in a massive underwater supermax prison in Civil War for a minute fraction of the shit that Jean did

>>155041435
Team Cap was locked up by reasonible-ish people and those who took plea deals go to be under house arrest.

Jean was in the middle of the base of a group that had experimented on one girl to death already, at least, and was trying to do the same to her with a smile on it's face. There was no way Peter was going to agree to let them take her in, and there was no one else around to do it.

>>155024662
The cab was driven by one of the eight or nine Future Summer's children. Sent back in time to stop the rise of Dark Phoenix by killing her in the body of a hobo. LIke all future Summers children, he was a failure.

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1.47 MB PNG

Does Jean perceive everyone's lewd thoughts about her in the daily or is her powerset still more limited than 616 Jean?

>>155024138
tale as old as time

>>155043304
Why does she wear such ugly pants in the movie?