The MCU fucked up massively by turning Wanda into a villain, killing her off and then trying to push Carol. Wanda was by far the character who was actually popular with women. To this day I'll see posts from women defending her. I don’t think anyone actually but gooners and culture-war types care about Carol
>>155109803Wanda will probably wind up as the solution for whatever happens at the end of the upcoming Avengers movie.
>>155109803Nobody cares about Carol, pushing her at all was a retarded mistake.
>>155109803Wanda was always a villain
>>155109803all they need to do with carol is avengers 197
>>155109803I think a good comparison to carol would be black widow. both are basically opposite sides of a dork male fantasy. One is the sexy badass spy who dates the nerd (and she can't have kids, so you never have to worry about the responsibility of being a father). The other is what the general leftist male idea of a "strong female character" looks like, she has the attributes of a generic action hero, but she's a woman and she occasionally spouts feminist lines.Neither really works at attracting women. Wanda's development was basically entirely accidental. The female fantasy isn't necessarily about being a badass action hero. it's more about having a safe, healthy life, finding a kind (but also good-looking, that's important) man, and if they have a family, having that man help out.
I only cared about Billy Batson turning into Carol
>>155110164>it's more about having a safe, healthy life, finding a kind (but also good-looking, that's important) man, and if they have a family, having that man help out.And now you know why they killed her off.
>>155110164A lot of immature men want women who look like sex dolls but at the same time have the interests and personalities of immature men and boys. A bit like >>155110201 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Y_JWVB7a8Tk
>>155110297Nothing offends women more than being reminded they have no personality or interests.
>>155110315This isn't a gender issue. the interests of both men and women are shaped by banal consumerism rather than by anything spiritually valuable. it's like arguing over which kind of pig feed is better.
>>155110342Uh-huh, sweetie.
>>155110347I’m neither a leftist or a lolbert, both are two sides of the same ZOG coin.
>>155110297Cryptofaggots, as they're known.
>>155110164I'd say current Jean Grey is a great comparison to Wanda too. Both are women who have been wronged and have resorted to evil in order to unleash their rage and give the world what it gave to them.But Jean is stinkier and younger, therefore better
>Most notable thing Ms. Marvel ever did was be a power up for an X-Man.
>>155109803>trying to push Caro>trying she beat out wonder woman. all by herself with no prior advertisement.
>>155110622>all by herself with no prior advertisementShe was given the most favorable movie spot and a post credit scene in Endgame, Also In terms of audience demographics, more men than women watched Captain Marvel (surprisingly, there was an equally large male audience % for the Marvel films).
>>155110761And Wonder Woman still has the most female attendance for a superhero movie
>>155109803Carol was pushed around peak Woke era (2017/2019) Not to mention the actress was an actual feminist schizo back then, they wanted to make her the most powerful ever and didn't care how much it ruined her character and they coudn't use her .Wanda came around 2014/2015.
>>155110164>The other is what the general leftist male idea of a "strong female character"leftist derangement syndrome
>>155111375see >>155110368
>>155111375>Leftist>BlondeChuds never learn
>still bitching about Captain Marvel in 2026Its time to move on anon.
>>155109803MCU Carol's problem isn't that she is a woman, or even a hollywood "strong woman", its that we as the audience have absolutely no fucking idea who she is as a character. We have never gotten to meet Carol Danvers. Follow me on this, I promise you this makes sense.In her first movie, Carol spends 80% of the movie's runtime without her memories and under Kree brainwashing. This works as a film, but it means that by the end of the movie we've only really had like 20 minutes towards the end, mostly big fight scenes, where Carol is actually in control of her own actions. We have a starting point for this character as basically a blank slate, but its clear that we don't know this character because she doesn't know herself yet. It then is up to a later movie to establish where she goes from here and who she becomes.But there is a 30 year timeskip between that movie and her appearing in Endgame. So what little we know about Carol at the end of her movie is now completely irrelevant. Starting from a blank slate and then having 30 years of space adventurers to grow as a person and define herself that we missed, our next introduction to Carol is now the REAL first time we are meeting the character as she will exist in the franchise to come. But she has no real introduction in Endgame, she's just there and other than doing some fight scenes she has like 6 lines in the whole movie. Okay, so that was a whiff too. But at least there is The Marvels, right? Well, now we have another Carol movie but this time she is splitting the protagonist focus with 2 other characters that we already know better than we know Carol because they had shows about them (which gives us less time to really get to know Carol) AND the movie plays around with Carol specifically being distant and secretive about her past. So while she is in the movie, we are very much NOT getting anything that opens up her character to usWe never got to meet Carol or develop her in a meaningful way.
>>155110124retard
>>155110201Time for a new BillyCarol thread
>>155110124No she wasn't
>>155110124Fuck off, 00s fanboy
>>155112659
>>155110150What happened in no. 197?
>>155114116Immaculate conception, rapid pregnancy and Carol giving birth to a warlord from another dimension who used her to gain access to this reality.
>>155114116>>155114191you left out her leaving with that warlord because she was in love with him
>>155111430>Forgive and forget>Just eat the sloppa
>>155110809Her push goes back way farther than that. They started pushing her right after Avengers 1 came out
>>155114266Its the MCU, they'll always change the details of the story anyway.
>>155114363no i want the whole glorious debacle up on the silver screen
>>155110809It will always be a shame that we didn't get Katee Sackov for the role, she didn't have the name recognition but she would have been perfect for the part.
>>155114377Imagine if Carol giving birth to a superbaby was how Kang got between universes, how we were introduced to the big overarching multiversal enemy, and he specifically picked the most powerful super-women he could find so that his body in that universe would inherit their powers. Kang's super-intelligence and tech, but each version of Kang was the kid of a different female super and had a version of their powers, making each version of Kang they fought have unique abilities, but the mainline MCU one has Carol's powers so all of the hyping up they have done for Carol applies to him as well.
>>155114397Is this a man?
>>155114420no because that wouldn't be as funny
>>155110205>And now you know why they killed her off.And why the comics and the movies took her desire to be a wife and a mother and weaponized that against her, making it her reason for being a crazy villain. These people are evil.
I recently rewatched endgame and holy shit I never noticed just how bad they shoehorned her in. Every scene with her in it is either some guy looking up to her or going "i like this one." I never understood why they poochied Carol when they had a literal wall of other female characters more developed before her
>>155110436>I'd say current Jean Grey is a great comparison to Wanda too.Regardless of how or why it happened, they're two of the only Marvel women who actually resonated with audiences, and could thus conceivably be pushed into bigger roles than the comics traditionally give them, but Marvel and Disney keep making them go bad and die like they have no choice but to do this, because they both have one infamous comic story where that happens.Other characters get to have fun adventures and fight villains in their adaptations, Jean and Wanda get Dark Phoenix Saga and House of M again and again and again.
>>155114673The chick who played Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACPkWWfRDaI
>>155110164>so you never have to worry about the responsibility of being a fatherIsn't that the opposite of what nerds wants?
>>155111647Careful anon, you’ll upset the /pol/tards with your legit criticism
Carol was never going to be popular with women because she's a MALE power fantasy.They don't want to be one of the boys, they don't want to be "just as strong as the boys", they don't want to be masculine. They want to be girly and cool without the comparison. Frozen's popularity at the time with young girls should be everything you need to know about how girls want to be portrayed, what they identify with and how their power fantasy is shaped.Disney Princesses, Barbie, Hello Kitty, Mahou Shoujo, K-Pop theses days, it's stuff that's popular with girls not because they're targeted at girls, they are meant to appeal to girls sensibilities and fantasies. They're not male fantasies being sold as female empowerment.
>>155115657Correct. Comic Carol can have her moments, but MCU Carol is 100% the stereotype that people talk about when they make fun of hollywood "strong female characters" just being men with tits.The big difference really seems to come down to emotional vulnerability. Men idolize stoicism, so bad male writers then write stoic badass female characters and they come off as a male power fantasy."Power + emotional vulnerability -> overcoming that vulnerability to wield that power for good" is the formula. Understanding this is why anime is drowning in good female protagonists and Hollywood struggles to get it right except by accident. This is why Wanda and the new Jean Grey also work: they have incredible power, but they are ANYTHING but stoic. They are driven by trauma and emotional response, and their arcs involve them having to grapple with those emotions and seek catharsis. Wanda Maximoff works for the same reason that Akemi Homura works. MCU Carol and Gunn Supergirl both don't deal with emotions except to ignore them or brood and drink about them. Not the same thing.
>Still seething about best girl and best movie seven years laterDo incels really?
>>155109803Unbelievable how badly they fucked up. They clearly regarded Wanda as expendable and didn't care, thinking they didn't need her.She's the only Marvel female whose merch actually sells Carol bombed, so they are now pushing and astroturfing Yelena frantically.
>>155116843>made over a billion dollars>bombed
>>155114784You can pretty much guarantee that Feige will do Dark Phoenix for the third fucking time. When you add in Multiverse of Madness, we are heading for a fourth "crazy woman goes nuts" story, twice the number of times Marvel has done female solo movies.
>>155109803> Ordinary woman with mysterious powers. Doesn't quip, struggles with being a hero.> Just wants a peaceful happy life.> Struggle against the destiny that an ancient, evil demon seeks to impose upon her.> Romance with Vision, an android.> Both Wanda and Vision are constantly evolving characters, learning who they are.> Magic + Sci-fi bleeding into each other creates interesting concepts.
>>155117023"Captain Marvel" is the equivalent of those 1990s NBC sitcoms that got blockbuster ratings because they aired in between "Friends" and "Seinfeld" or "Seinfeld" and "ER."The slot between those two Avengers movies, with one movie ending by hinting (falsely) that her movie will be important to solving the problem, is probably the greatest "time slot" a franchise movie ever had, but the test is how "Suddenly Susan" or "Caroline in the City" does without the cushion.
>>155109803They fucked up by sidelining everyone that as a proven moneymaker and then trying to push Carol.
>>155119173Nah, otherwise it wouldn't have also set the record it still holds for physical media sales
Wanda had like a dozen things going for her that made her unusually popular with men and women>introduction showed her in a sexy costume This is actually super fucking rare for the MCU. Other than Black Widow they hated letting men see sexy women show some curves or skin. It was just endless man abs and such. This made men like her>storyline has soap opera elements, losing her brother as well as her romance with visionWomen love this, their brains love relationship stuff>she was genuinely super powerful to a degree where we don’t know what her limit is, or even what the totality of her abilities areLots of room for growth >actress was well liked and didn’t antagonise fans
>>155119282Another thing is that whereas almost all of the MCU's other romances are superhero/normie woman, Wanda and Vision are both super-beings and thus true equals.
>>155117023>delusional Carolfag ignoring it coming right after Endgamehey retard if your girl is so popular how come they've completely dropped her sorry ass
>>155120254Except for Ant-Man and The Wasp but Hope Van Dyne is a nothing burger and women can't self insert as her to fuck Paul Rudd
I love how Carolfag keep bringing up the first movie success but keep ignoring the sequel which is a massive flopped and the lowest grossing MCU movie of all time
>>155115864>>155115657You can compare Mahou Shoujo to Tokusatsu for a great exampling of how men and women have different priorities when it comes to hero fiction.Men's wish fulfillment and power fantasy comes down to being a heroic knight while women's wish fulfillment and power fantasy boils down to being a heroic princess. Both fight evil invaders, but the girls are far more invested in social dynamics, romance and drama, and the mundane day-to-day compared to the boys, who are mainly concerned with conflict, angst and self-reflection, new enemies to fight, and getting stronger.>>155115864I think Hollywood is genuinely more misogynistic than Japan's entire collective subculture of male authors writing female characters. Companies want men's luxury products to be purchased by women but they aren't willing to let le strong female protagonist actually be written like a woman (because they can't stop second-guessing themselves and panic over the idea of potentially alienating the boys who buy toys) or be written by men who actually empathize with women or understand their psyches.Avatar has the same problem with Korra. Bryke are two men writing fictional women but they really don't empathize with women or what makes them tick.
>>155120448They didn't it's already confirmed she's co-leading Secret Wars with Spider-ManBillion-dollar movie friends!
>>155115864>>155115657>>155114781Something that really damages the MCU is how it is filled to the brim with female characters made with romance and drama in mind that Disney and Marvel Studios could absolutely capitalize off of in order to sell merch, but Disney's priorities are "we want our own solo heroine like Wonder Woman who can constantly sell merch but we don't want her to be vulnerable so the normie boys can still buy her stuff"and that's a problem because there's a huge lack of solo Marvel heroines in the vein of Wonder Woman and they're 85 years too late, nevermind how the MCU machine is inherently opposed to creating any long-term success akin to Wonder Womanother female heroines existed before and after her creation, but Wonder Woman basically won forever thanks to Marston going "Superman...but a woman!" before ANYBODY else did followed by media adaptations that cemented her in the eyes of the public and the collective cultural zeitgeist (media adaptations that were notably made with women in mind, initially at least)
How the mighty have fallen
>>155120592>Managed to carry Monica 'sales poison' Rambeau to over $200MBest girl still having world-class draw!
>>155120721Wow who knew Carolfag also a racist chud
>>155120543>They didn't it's already confirmed she's co-leading Secret Warsnot it isn't schizo, keep dreaming
>>155109803>To this day I'll see posts from women defending her.Anon there's women defending a woman that killed all three of her own children. Women defending a woman is not the affirmation you think it is.
>>155112659>>155113111Stop pushing this troonshit.
>>155119223It didn't even set the physical record the year it came out.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_films_in_the_United_States
>>155120909But you posted a list showing it did.
>>155110201You should team up with the Carolfag that wants her to be Venom.Together you can annoy two fandoms with your shit.
>>155119282She's so perfect
>>155119282milk.
>>155109803I'm a gooner and I never cared about Carol. She always was an annoying stronk white woman token character. And she never had sex appeal unlike Wanda or Rogue for that matter.
>>155120849>Anon there's women defending a woman that killed all three of her own children.Why are they like this?
>>155116042>Still seething that Carol never worked out and finally being shelved soonEver heard the definition of insanity?
>>155120543She's gonna die and give her powers to Rouge, its gonna be beautiful
>>155109803>To this day I'll see posts from women defending her.People saying "Wanda did nothing wrong" are usually joking, the serious argument people make is that the MCU did Wanda dirty and can't or won't accept that they made a mistake and fix it. They adapted material that destroyed a popular character, because they considered her expendable and she wasn't supposed to get popular.
>>155122132Women hate accountability and responsibility They destroyed modern dating and still complain
>>155120254It's a rare superhero romance where the two characters as a couple are truly greater than the sum of their parts, but the people making the comics are against doing it even more than they're against Peter/MJ.It says a lot that the normie audience just accepted Wanda/Vision and went with it, while all of the pushback and "this is wrong and disgusting" reeeing came from lifelong comics readers who'd been trained to hate it by a succession of Marvel writers and editors.>>155120578>we want our own solo heroine like Wonder Woman who can constantly sell merch but we don't want her to be vulnerable so the normie boys can still buy her stuffI think this might be as much about the women who want this want a strong heroine who don't need no man and has no flaws or vulnerabilities, because a heroine who's strong and powerful and your brain knows she doesn't need help, but if there's a still vulnerability and femininity to her, that stuff really activates the masculine drive to protect. They really nailed this with the casting and performance of Wanda, it sounds like they've managed it again with Jean, but they can't capitalize on it properly because someone's decided they aren't supposed to be star characters, and someone else has decided the stories where they go crazy are essential to adapt.
The MCU fucked up by making Hawkeye a joke and killing off Quicksilver immediately
>>155109803Wanda's mental break down was a decades-long storyline in the comics. That was always going to be her progression.
>>155122152They don't have the balls
>>155110095"No more Robert Downey Jr."
On a side note, this reminds me, what happened to this fat fuck again?
>>155123272I ate her.
>>155123234Are you dense? Are you retarded or something? It wasn't a "decades long storyline", it was a 1989-1990 storyline that had a beginning and end, then Bendis took over Avengers in 2004 and somehow thought the storyline was just dropped with no resolution, and revisited it with Wanda suddenly going insane for no reason, and tried to explain it by way of having her learn about something she already knew about. The whole thing was stupid, pretending her whole history was some inevitable slide towards Avengers Disassembled is just delusional lies.
>>155123089MCU Hawkeye and Quicksilver were secondary characters at best, so their misuse was always going to be survivable.The problem with Hawkeye is that they adapted Ultimate Hawkeye who's just some SHIELD agent, and doesn't have any of the backstory or personality of the original version, and he spent most of the first Avengers movie being mind controlled by the bad guys.Then Age of Ultron has Whedon piling a lot of old timey "this character is going to die" red flags onto Hawkeye that were so old most of the audience didn't even recognize them, all so he could do a bait and switch and Quicksilver dies instead.Don't listen to anyone claiming Pietro's death was because of Fox, it was just Whedon being Whedon and needing to kill someone for muh drama, muh tragedy. It was one of his ideas for the sequel before Fox decided to do their own version of the character.
>>155123272>that >"fat" Touch grass
>>155110124Was she tho?
>>155126968Not when she erased all muties.
