Will indie animation overtake the television animation industry in the future?
>>155119272>Will cartoons made on a budget of thirty dollars and a packet of cigarettes overtake multi-billion dollar companies that have operated for over 50 years?No?
>>155119272Absolutely not and anyone who thinks so is delusional.Even the creator of Magical Girl knows that the studio system is superior and is trying to shop the show around instead of relying on endless kickstarters, pathetic AdSense, or dwindling patreons. Most she has done is a plush. Indie can not replace industry jobs, there is not enough infrastructure and Glitch does not have the capacity to be their savior. The indie scene is just a bunch of out of work industry people coping with the current job market.
>>155119272No. and glitch will probably die without digital circus
>>155119372Gameoverse is going really good.
>>155119361How does the comic continue?
>>155119496Hold on and I'll storytime this section
>>155119496Part 1
>>155119611Part 3Part 2 is here >>155119361
>>155119631Part 4
>>155119652Pretty funny thanks for sharing, anon
>>155119631man this guy's tone of writing is obnoxious
>>155119611>Disney>We're busy commiting rapeswut? i thought Nick's the one doing that, the only problematic DTVA creator was the Tangled The Series guy according to SBA Anon
>>155119611Me
>>155119272If it's anything like video games they'll just stick to a few niche subgenres or playing the FOTM memeshow lottery.
Imagine if IDWTBAMG ended with Lady DeVoid trapping Aika and Zira in some kind of time-dilated mind-prison while their bodies slowly decay, as they imagine themselves as two teenagers in suburbia who meet and bond over a magical girl show from the internet
>>155119272(1/2) The answer is yes and no.The studio way of making cartoons is, mostly dead already, as major studios aren't really developing pitches as much as they used to or even seeking them out. I've heard from people in the industry that studios are actually looking at the indie space to find cartoons they can snag, though I find this a little absurd because there's only so many indie projects and most of them are on the more obscure side. Netflix is the only one that has actually done anything major, reaching out Glitch, the Space King animators,and Zeurel to platform their cartoons. There is also WB developing Vivzie's movie pitch. If you ask me, right now there is already a hesitancy to even make cartoons because most professional studios right now are money hungry and only seek number to go up, so even just looking at the indie space, to make deals with indie creators is done in part because they want money. I do not think the way the studios currently operate is stable. I have felt, for awhile now, we have been witnessing the decline of animation being made, not because there isn't passion for it anymore, there just genuinely is almost zero willingness to make something new now and that is putting many, many people out of jobs. professionals with experience can't get jobs, people out of college can't get jobs, the way studios operate now has only fueled the rise of indie animation. Again, I don't think it's sustainable. Even if you're a talented and capable animator/artist it's still simply impossible to make something like a cartoon without money, a team, or a lot of time on your hands.I think right now many creators are either trying to do what they can given what is going on, or like me, simply waiting for some form of normalcy to return.
>>155119939(2/2) So to answer the question it will not overtake it, but I do believe that, studios will simply die out if they don't make something new, I've always thought reboots were dumb, because I, a 20 year old animator did not grow up with any of the shows being rebooted, and I always find them cheap anyway, I find original content much more enjoyable to watch, and for that I genuinely have to turn to the indie space because the corporations are not making anything. I think that unless the corporations, I don't know, actually make a change to the way they operate, indie animation will be forced to become bigger.
>>155119317Did you consider that they make shoes that satisfy neither adults nor kids?
Lets see what we got here, hmmm:>a bunch of indie pilots about early 20somethings being broke, working a shitty job while in college for some reason, all varying in quality from meh to decent but basically the same exact thing>one magical girl cartoon with an episode that's not even fully finished >one video game cartoon where the villain has to win in the game or their world gets destroyed (???) >one slice of life furry cartoon made by a cartoon reviewer with shit tastes >one successful cartoon that ended in a wet fartIt's not looking good. I'm not even going to mention Gaslight, Lackadaisy and Knights because they're still in development. Monkey Wrench is a thing that /co/ hate watches I guess.
>>155119272If artists stopped being whiny faggots and started embracing AI then indie would have replace Hollywood already.>Here's a tool that can literally make $1 million cartoons for just a cheap $20 a month subscription>This is somehow bad because... IT JUST IS OK!!?!??!
>>155119272That would be like a handful of open food markets vs the entirety of a country's food industry/s
>>155119272We went from pandering tumblr weirdos to pandering dark tumblr pedos
>>155120270Now anon, you know that's a heavy allegation.
>>155119272Can you overtake a still corpse?>>155120133Sorry to industry folx but flying anime girl with a love letter beats their mental illness stew with a fat millennial fan girl
>>155120133>This is somehow bad because... IT JUST IS OK!!?!??!It is bad because artists who give a crap about what they do don't want to leave the process of human expression in the hands of machines who don't understand it as anything other than an exercise of pattern recognition and RNG. It would be as if I asked someone who plays games for fun "Why are you completing each game one by one instead of using cheats and Steam Achievements Manager? it is cheaper and faster."Anti-AI artists think that there's more to creating something than just the end-result, they consider the creation process to be just, if not more relevant, than the content itself. This is also why there are still many stop motion artists doing this the old-fashioned way despite there being plenty of tools available to create 3D models that look and move exactly like real figurines.I'm sure I could save a lot of time using AI tools to make plenty for me, but the reason I don't use them is because it disconnects me from what I think gives my art value, plus I also like to brag about my skills even if it's just to me alone.
>>155120346This isn't a competition, both are shit. Just because the anime girl looks cuter doesn't make her any less soulless.
>>155120532You act as if people want to click a button and present it as their own piece.There’s so many things AI can do to improve workflow and enable effects previously too expensive for an independent artist.
>>155119317that's also what the multi-billion dollar companies are spending on cartoons, though
>>155120564>You act as if people want to click a button and present it as their own pieceBecause many of them do>There’s so many things AI can do to improve workflow and enable effects previously too expensive for an independent artist.Those improvements in workflow should exist outside of the final product, such as prototype files to be used before the final ones or QoL features that do not take away from the merit of the creation process. Also programs like Blender and Maya were already able to care of those previously "too expensive" effects, but retards don't bother to experiment enough with them to realize this.I'm a simple man, I like pencil and paper (or clay and figurines if we're speaking of Stop Motion). The best art had always been made with the most primitive tools, and all attempt at imitating them had never reached even a percent of their beauty. If anything, I actually think artists have gotten too way comfortable with the conveniences of digital tools and forgot the nuances that can only be learned from ink, graphite, temperas and chalk. They should go back to school and animate with only a chalkboard.
>>155120532>Anti-AI artists think that there's more to creating something than just the end-result,Enough of this pretentious crap. You are not and have never came close to the likes of Michelangelo or Leonardo Davinci. Artists deluding themselves thinking they are worth millions when their portfolio consists of Deviantart-tier donut steel drawings is exactly like studios stopped hiring you. >It would be as if I asked someone who plays games for fun "Why are you completing each game one by one instead of using cheats and Steam Achievements Manager?Dumb comparison. You might as well ban Photoshop and Digital Cameras too since they "cheat" as well.
>>155120685>Also programs like Blender and Maya were already able to care of those previously "too expensive" effects, but retards don't bother to experiment enough with them to realize this.Pixar had expensive supercomputers since the first Toy Story that is still hard match 1:1 on today's home computers.And even if you could get close, we're still talking an army of artists that was needed to hand animate, model, light, rig, composite etc that 1 person alone can't hope to match. That's why the whole pushback against AI makes no sense. This is the only tool that finally levels the playing field so that money and skill are no longer being gatekept from making higher quality cartoons.
>>155119272Maybe I’m out of the loop on modern animation but I thought it was already nearing that point thanks to both the rise in indie animation as well as the fall in television animation. Most modern tv animation is practically 80s level of slop now with 90% of it being based on pre existing ip with most of the original stuff being completely forgotten about. At the very least, indie has overtaken most modern tv animation in my personal preference, I’m much more interested in stuff like space king, gameoverse, gnome show, bridge kids, walten files, and catching up than stuff like kiff, invincible, and big city greens, though maybe I should give some of those a rewatch.
>>155120894You're not missing much. Here is what Cartoon Network's current lineup looks like.All their "upcoming" shows are all preschool. Not a single age 7+ cartoon is being made.
>>155119272We already answered this, no it won't. Studios will have their pick of the litter with projects that go viral. All they have to do is wait and see to dangle a check in front of these artists. >>155119361Based on her prior social media posts, Kiana seems genuinely anxious/reluctant to take her project to the next level only because of how people have been treating showrunners. I don't blame her for being afraid of the current fandom culture but that Gooseworx drama put the fear of god into so many indie creatives. The fact that she kept saying "please don't call me an indie creator, I'm not one of them ahaha" reeks of "I don't want to be goose 2.0". Whether she likes it or not, she is an indie creator and her lesbian drama is the type of shit that attracts hysterical fandom types. Kudos to her for at least recognizing the target on her back
>>155121502>We already answered thisWho's "we" ? You sound like a boomer industry producer
>>155121715>Muh who is we??You are a fucking retard. How many people in this thread and the other duplicate ones have said "No it won't" to this retarded "will indie overtake studios" question?
>>155119272Not to the same extent as some those 90's and 2000's Nicktoons, Cartoon Cartoon, etc. Not knocking indie shows, but much of the ones I've seen talked about on /co/ seem to cater towards niche audiences of 20-somethings and 30-somethings.>>155120941Guess I'm not missing much, either. At least had TV-PG shows when I stopped watching cable years ago.>>155121502Valid points here on showrunners being prone to attracting mistreatment and the vile, autistic fandoms imaginable. Two more strikes against indie shows.
>>155121755Why are you so triggered?
>>155121761* the most vile, autistic fandoms imaginable
>>155119372That's just ridiculous and sad. They need to be sustained by 100 mil per vid anomalies to even survive? Digital economy's fucked I guess.
>>155121829well yea, youtube takes most of the cut
>>155120741You are retarded. What do you think even gives art it's value? If AI art is so good why don't you only consume AI art for the rest of your life? Cameras and image generations are completely different things. Stonetoss gets that nuance that you seemed to have completely missed.
>>155119611>>155119631>>155119652This cartoon makes no sense. People good with math and linguistics should get better job opportunities. Art jobs better serve those with better hand eye coordination. Which are with people who would get into some trade like carpentry, welding, or plumbing.
>>155120857Nigga show me a single frame on the original Toy Story that you couldn't surpass by several orders of magnitude with a single decent PC today? The only reason why you can't 1:1 match something is because of the rendering engine being different, not because it's good. Plus random ass YouTubers have been matching proprietary rendering results with shit like Blender for years it's practically its own genre. At the end of the day both are people solving problems. But you're probably a bot or brainless shill>only tool that finally levels the playing field
>>155120741best part about rock throw is it is elevated by incels
>>155120941Man these CN suits must have the best jobs in the world huh? Get paid a shit load of money just to "strategize" spamming TTG 23 hours out of the day.
>>155121917the parasite class are those who sit on money and decides how it is spent
>>155121858Might as well host their own thing somewhere or create more revenue somewhere else where they aren't gonna take such a huge cut. The fanbase and big and rampant already so whatever scheme they use to capitalize more on just the streaming ought to work in some form that matters. Only merch is quite unimaginative.
>>155121933I get that but why don't the board just fire the c-suite at this point? It's 3 fucking shows and the way their schedule is organized is so obvious you can literally replace it with a rudimentary AI. What's protecting their jobs?
>>155121943of course, that is why the glitchinn existsthey make over 20 grand monthly from it
>>155121943I've been saying we need a Steam equivalent for indie animation for years. YouTube hasn't been sustainable for animation for many years now (around the time they prioritized quantity over quality leading to the explosion of the Let's Play format).
>>155121987What the fuck is this LMAO?! Some kind of chibi show on their own website? Some gachaslop? Some slop socializing game with the most barebones mechanics in it to justify people even logging in? Do they monetize the variant outfits?
>>155122036basically it's a 10 dollar discord community and they also blogpost the behind the scenes of all their stuff, I was there for a bit and the only people that are really there are diehard glitch fans
>>155121996Yeah. There's actually surprisingly still a lot of people doing animation for fun or in general. I'm not sure how you'd make a Steam exactly. What, someone's gonna pay per show or per episode? What about the failed Butch Hartman platform? How is the monetization scheme supposed to work? There's also the issue with having enough content to justify a platform. I don't remember the early Newground days. What happened when they ran out of art to look at?
>>155119611>>155119631>>155119652>t. Some bitter faggot who couldn't make it in his own shitty newground industry Newground is full of bitter faggots that think drawing some retarded shit is funny>>155119361The creator of 'pretty please I dont want to be a magical girl' is a fucking house nigger that still wants to fucking suck the dick of the industry because she was some washed up Netflix concept artist that thinks she's some subversive bitch, her fucking show is criticizing a gerne that doesn't even know what the fuck it's talking about, the bitch herself said she only watched one magical girl anime and got offended when she couldn't see some niggers in the tv box, yet you fuckers suck the dick of that show because you can't get some cunt in real life. Seriously how the fuck did that show manage to get popular is beyond me, I know part of the reason is because they got some niggers dressed up as some Card Capture Sakura dresses and the white retards act like it's "subversive piece of art", that shit sucks dick! The main chick is some bitter bitch mad about random shit, if some white woman or whoever the fuck decided to make thier black characters a cynical bitch, all those fucking faggots at Twitter and Reddit would be upset about the hard bitch black woman stereotype but because the creator is 3/4th of a fucking nigger, she gets a pass. Honestly fuck all of /co/ for letting this shit slide.
>>155122062>the only people that are really there are diehard glitch fansYet they still make 20k a month, 2000 diehard fans paying for essentially nothing is still pretty impressive.How do they charge them? Through Patreon? Subscribestar? Idk but I get the sense that the average Glitch viewer normie does not have a Patreon account.
>>155122072Given how almost all indie animators are doing it purely as a passion project, I'd imagine the monetization would work something like Ko-Fi where the consumer gets everything for free (as they already do from Youtube), but also grants an easy and convenient avenue for viewers to tip/support creators/creations they like. Given this is a platform specifically catered to indie animation, it wouldn't be drowned out by all the bullshit the YouTube algorithm prioritizes, making it easy for small creators to be noticed.I'm sure there's probably better ways to go about it. I'm just spitballing right now. What's important though is we need a dedicated platform for it. YouTube doesn't cut it anymore, and places like Newgrounds are washed up and irrelevant (it was basically on death's door until Friday Night Funkin gave it a quick defibrillator application but they've been cracking down hard on rules and censorship as of late, it's basically almost as cucked as Youtube and Deviantart these days).
>>155122036>>155122062>>155122095https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfF7faMA9dQ
>>155119272>televisionThe INTERNET is the designated watching medium at this day and age. And I want you to grasp that in a way that there're always changes and time will never EVER be rewound- no matter how badly you will need to reminisce those oh- so beloved objects you used to use all the time.You will catch wrinkles. You will lose testosterone. You will continue degrading to the end of your dying breath. And you will be in a psych ward retirement center, where everyone will eventually go at one point or another. Most of this will happen and you'll eventually be one with the maggots, while every last youth you encounter will have improved technology, more convenient technology and the cycle repeats itself from there.Just.Like.Clockwork.
>>155120857>And even if you could get close, we're still talking an army of artists that was needed to hand animate, model, light, rig, composite etc that 1 person alone can't hope to match.Not him but the point of a pilot is to just get the idea out, yeah? It doesn't have to be a complete project, just a decent one.
>>155122095glitchinn uses memberful
No, it'll do something better:Give me SOMETHING to look forward to in 2027..
>>155121889> If AI art is so good why don't you only consume AI art for the rest of your life? If the alternative is Calarts style and similar things like fake anime I’m willing to do so when it comes to cartoons.You can even get AI to understand cartooniness already, both in images and writing. In the mid 10s people pretended like they had no clue of what you were talking about if you discussed animation principles in depth since you don’t need them to work on beanmouth shows. They chose to be less human than where AI is at now and I want to avoid their mind poisons.
>>155122085Holy seethe
>>155119272Indie is so lame, it's all feel good safe humor tame cringe. So no, the average normie would rather watch another TV-MA FG or R&M clone than some bore fest like Close Enough or black girl magic show (a show btw that's only supported because the creator is a black girl).
>>155119272>made by tumblr people>made for fandom autists>always with the same blob beanmouth designs>animation doesn't even try to be better than family guy's>millenial writingindie animation needs someone like ralph bakshi or genndy that actually gives a shit
>>155119939>>155119952I think the problem is that many of the new ideas are genuinely terrible, not to defend out of touch execs but many of the new cartoons have been terrible ideas with no real demographic to appeal except for tumblr millennial which aren't even niche, they're niche within a niche.Indies are just the newest form of risk management they using now
>>155122801Ace Attorney 5 live playthrough
>>155119361I disagree with them myself but ya should be more polite about it.
>>155119471As good as Digital Circus?
>>155123375Pick your poison Out of touch execs shows or shows made by people who use tumblr or talk like sexuality is a personality trait on twitter>>155122857>REEE THE CALARTS!!!We get It But it just sounds like you barely search shows to watch and instead just looks at the same shit and whines about ithttps://youtu.be/dB-sbhv6Ww0
>>155119997And their shows aren't that much better either!
>>155123524>it just sounds like you barely search shows to watch and instead just looks at the same shit and whine about itYes. I love anime and my favorite cartoons are all imitation anime. So I have no choice but to watch Calarts
>>155119272prolly not desu
>>155119471Is it actually, Arin
>>155119939>there just genuinely is almost zero willingness to make something new nowFrom the money people or the "panic attacks are character development" creators
>>155120195Small food trucks that make delicious food vs McDonald's
>>155120133It's always the easily impressed mouth breathers who believe generative AI is production pipeline friendly or some inevitable form of progress will make it ppf because line goes up. I fw this tech for my own amusement but no nigga it's not going to replace cel/CGI animation just because you can't see the problems under the hood. Everything that makes AI fast makes it unreliable and there isn't a patch for that PLUS RAM AND GPUs ARE TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE
>>155121889>What do you think even gives art it's value?Certainly not the money laundering bullshit that makes museums buy "artistic banana peels" for millions, ESLcuck
