Not to start a low quality bait east vs west thread. But a genuine question. Does it seem like Western 2D does not have the same capacity for tragedy as Eastern? Garth Ennis's Punisher is the only one I can think of that can punch as hard as the most tragic Eastern stuff. Frank can never win. He will never get his family back. He will never clean out the city. There's a Buddhist like calmness to his comfort with death and suffering. In Western stuff it often seems like tragedy is something that merely happens to the hero, a random act that they didn't will. Batman had a tragic thing happened to him. His parents took a wrong turn down an alley way. Villains have origins where something bad happen to them. These are sob stories. "I was there and this thing came and hurt me."While the Eastern stuff has this almost Greece like understanding where the universe has a metaphysics where people bring suffering upon themselves. I think it might be the Buddhist influence where suffering is unavoidable; while in the Western stuff its just a random act that could be avoided. Parents could have phoned a cab or the villain could have not been in the lab on the day the radioactive explosion or whatever changed him.
>>155198857You raise a good point but Punisher is not the example you want to use, he's a very shallow character that's either silly gun man or a killing machine in human shape. He lacks depth even compared to other superheroes, there's more Batman stories that focus on his pain of loss and feeling helpless.
>>155198857name some examples of eastern tragedy in manga or otherwise.matter of fact what are some western tragedies? there aren't that many tragedies that evoke much emotional response anyway
>>155198857Watchmen is pretty tragic, to use a super basic example. While the creation of Rorschach, Manhattan's rebirth, and the enactment of Ozymandias' plot are Nietzschean, it can be argued that Rorschach's death, Manhattan's acceptance of godhood, and the eventual unraveling of Ozymandias' deeds are Buddhist. >>155199231OP just explained why Punisher fits.>>155199270Land of the Lustrous comes to mind.
>>155199417No he didn't.>He will never get his family back. He will never clean out the city.How is this different from Batman? We've even had numerous Batman stories set in the future and the city still isn't clean. Besides, this shows why he's wring, it's never about scale, it's about how tragedy continues to shape the character instead of just being a random sob story inserted to give direction like say Uncle Ben's death.
>>155199231That's why I mentioned Garth's Punisher. He's more grounded.>>155199270Most recent stuff I've seen. *Guyver: The most basic "become a monster to fight monsters", but still way ahead of Western stuff. Guy gets bio-punk power armor and fights humans who have been turned into monsters by an evil organization. It's pretty simplistic but even this idea of destined tragedy. In the lore the human race isn't being 'corrupted' into monsters. Humans are a biological experiment by aliens and were made solely to be turned into mindless death machines. That's their telos. It's cosmic destiny. There is a part where the protagonist's father is turned into a monster and he has to kill him to save himself. He processes this trauma by developing selective amnesia. Forgetting he killed his faster and thinking his father is still alive somewhere waiting to be saved. Doing this makes him lose the ability to even use his powers. And he doesn't get it back until he processes and accepts that he killed his own father as a fulfillment of cosmic destiny. So the only way to save those he loves is to become a monster that loses the ability to even feel love in the first place. It's twisted catharsis that clowns Batman's no kill mythos. *Puellia Magica Madoka: Relatively spoiler free. The entire metaphysics of the show is explicitly laid out so that trying to end suffering is what causes it. Characters explicitly talk about this in direct language. The entire show is a treatise on this.Its even built into the episode titles. Miki Sayak's episode start with titles like "I won't regret anything" and end with "I was stupid. So stupid."----Writing this I've realized part of it might be that tragedy requires the hero to lose something and never get it back. Than to explain why you should accept this as normal and correct. That's so contrary to the Western mind. Ancient Greeks exempt.
>>155198857Read O'Neil's Question
>>155199503OP here.Garth's Punish is shaped by tragedy in this way. He's at peace with misery. He already killed every mobster responsible for his family's death. He himself says that he won't clean up the streets because he's just a guy with a gun and trying to shoot human traffickers and drug pushers. It would be like if Bruce stopped talking about being a symbol, or grand standing, and just said," I'm empty and beating up criminals is how I feel the void. Its my routine. Eventually some lucky kid will gun me down in an alley way." Its an honest form of nihilism that makes sense because in that run super powers, magic, etc. don't exist. It's not a constructive view of suffering. But its a lot better than what most comics. He's basically an angry man who became a monk.
>>155198857>western stuff>eastern stuff>no real examplesOP is a pseud with low-media literacy.
>>155199598>*Guyver: The most basic "become a monster to fight monsters", but still way ahead of Western stuffRead Man-Thing and talk that jive, goddamn.
>>155199598>Writing this I've realized part of it might be that tragedy requires the hero to lose something and never get it back.First comic that comes to mind in my head is the ending of Black ScienceKind ofThere's also characters like Ben Grimm or Ron Lithgow from Concrete who's basically "what if Ben Grimm wasn't this extraordinary superhero was an astronaut before his permanent transformation"
100% chance OP read Berserk and thought it was deep instead of being babbies first byronic hero
>>155198857I recommend Loisel's Peter Pan and Boxers and Saints by Gene Luen Yang (but Boxers more given for what you're looking for) for non-cape reccs for what you might be looking for given your definition ofThose are just immediate suggestions and I have to sleep soon so other Anons can probably suggest better>>155199598>He processes this trauma by developing selective amnesia. Forgetting he killed his faster and thinking his father is still alive somewhere waiting to be saved. I think you might like Go-Bots by Tom Scioli
>>155199417>>155199598>>155199681thank you for the recs, anons. i've only read part of black science and never finished it. i will have to do that.
>>155199729word
>>155199270Ashita no Joe
>>155201189No, soifag
>>155198857>Not to start a low quality EvW thread>Starts a low quality EvW threadYou can't just say you're not gonna do something then do it
>>155201231That's literally you.
>>155201331He didn't, though.
>>155201331This is easily the most interesting thread on the board right now. What are some tragic comics you've come across? Are they more or less philosophically Buddhist or Greek in their approach to tragedy?
>>155198857You definitely are reading the buddhist view of Punisher more than it was intending, but yeah a lot of superhero stories build around extreme chance/fate that becomes the spark of their origin, with supervillains often designed as the contrast of like the same chance/fate being driven to selfish/negative conclusions instead of selfless/positives.Bruce Wayne has tragedy befall his family and he drives to reduce crime so that others don't feel the same. Victor Fries has tragedy befall his family and he drives to fix things by selfishly push through anyone by any means.I'm not sure how much variety in western comics you have looked into, but I am kind of assuming it is a bit of casual basic view of mostly thinking of Marvel/DC superheroes the way someone who doesn't know manga would mostly think of shonen and maybe some shoujo action romcom from the 80s/90s.I'm not sure what kind of tragedy you're looking for but there probably is stuff out there that fits what you're thinking of.Maybe some crime thriller/dramas.Maybe some dark fantasy/action.Maybe some supernatural/horror.Maybe some depressing slice of life.Honestly it is hard to see past the 70+ issues a week of superheroes and adaptations of old media IPs a week. I personally have the good fortune of a bookclub with friends that really broaden my horizons.If you know what you'd want I can try to think of suggestions. No Promises.
>>155198857Friendly reminder he kills pedos and despise the alt-right (same thing) cops for using his logo
>>155204566>(same thing)Nope
>>155201379No, you
>>155204566Pedos belong to all sorts of political and religious (or non-religious) convictions. They can be found in any job sector and social class. It's a condition that can be found in people you love and people you hate.
>>155198857>While the Eastern stuff has this almost Greece like understanding where the universe has a metaphysics where people bring suffering upon themselves. I think it might be the Buddhist influence where suffering is unavoidable; while in the Western stuff its just a random act that could be avoided.What? You have it completely backwards. If you bring suffering with your actions, then it can be avoided. If suffering is something that just happens regardless of your actions, then it's an uncaring force of the universe. The latter is far more tragic because it forces you to cope with uncomfortable realities of life instead of just going for the just world fallacy. Like you can just say>man this could have been avoided if the character was smarter... good thing I'm naturally smart and this will never happen to meto brush it aside. You cannot do that when a tragedy happens completely independently of your actions, so it makes you leave your comfort zone and reflect on things more.
>>155205760The Greek view is that suffering is caused by fate. And a man's nature is his fate. There is no free will. Even if you are told in advance via prophecy what you will do and how it will ruin you, you can't help but live your nature and make it happen. In fact trying to AVOID it by being clever is usually what triggers it.The Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by attachment. You can be attached to something like your family, your success. But everything is transient. You can lose them and if you haven't already you worry about losing which causes a type of suffering called anxiety. Suffering is built into the system because if you care about anything at all you will suffer. And again trying to AVOID suffering is just going to make it worse.You can't get around these by being clever. The Gods themselves can't get around them. Instead the prescription is you ought to make peace with and accept the unavoidable nature of suffering.
Cool thread.
>>155199688Berserk is really good, though. Or at least it was good for a long time. Why are you shitting on it?
>>155207782Good in the way that Sesame Street is good for teaching kids the alphabet.
>>155207794What do you mean?
>>155206352Interesting.
OP here. I'm rereading Ennis's Punisher and it's even more on the nose than I remember. Frank losing his family isn't a random accident. It's something he chooses to happen. In a very Greek way because of his nature.Frank starts as a Vietnam soldier, one of exceptional fortitude and skill. But he becomes a combat junkie. He doesn't want the war to end. He keeps re-enlisting. And when a 2 star general arrives and Frank learns he will leave, go back to Washington, and close down the military base Frank is working at it he kills the general and makes it look an accident. Because the general would have denied him his fix.Through out Vietnam Frank hears voices from a character which is all but confirmed to be Death himself. Death offers Frank a deal. A personal war that will never end for a price. Death doesn't say what the price is but does say it will be dire. Death insists he will only do this if Frank willingly consistent. So Frank becomes the Punisher the moment he does this. And in doing so Death takes his wife and children as payment. This is never mentioned again. Death even says that as part of the agreement Frank will forget he even made the deal.This page shows him verbally signing the contract with Death. This is very unusual for Western comics. It reads as villain behavior to us rather than tragic.
>>155208640Kino.
>>155198857>he likes PennisGAAAAAAAYalso, opinion discarded
>>155208640>OP here. I'm rereading Ennis's Punisher and it's even more on the nose than I remember. Frank losing his family isn't a random accident. It's something he chooses to happen. In a very Greek way because of his nature.Yeah, that's why his version of Punisher sucks big time. Fuck that bullshit
>>155208808That's why it's the best.
>>155204566The "alt-right" aren't trying to "crack eggs" and turn children trans though
>>155208640Frank Castle, after his final war in Vietnam ends. And just before his eternal war starts.
>>155209042He returns to his family a war hero. Having won an impossible battle.
>>155209083Death speaks to frank again. The black text boxes are the only way it is ever identified. No spooky Halloween custom with a scythe. It makes it seem like a cosmic force. We are reminded again. Frank chose this. Because his nature is war and he can't help but to follow his nature down the doomed path. Very tragic.And there seems to be some hint that his plot armor is a result of this deal. Cute.
>>155209118Beautiful framing.
>>155199417>Land of the Lustrous comes to mind.It was alright, but I didn't enjoy it if that makes sense. Character design alone made me have trouble telling who was who, and I can't say the characters had a particular set of depth other than acting like aliens with the facsimile of melodramatic emotions until the end where it got spelled out literally that Phos's suffering made them human. Maybe I didn't know enough about Buddism.Idk it was also recommended to me by the most pseudo-intellectual privileged Asian American chick I know who works at FAANG and is the most obnoxiously hypocritical woke friend I have, so maybe I'm projecting that onto the work.
>>155209654That's a shame. I've heard many cases of recommendations coming from total twats ruining media for them. I read it because I had seen pages posted on /a/ many years ago and I loved the aesthetic, heard some whispers about it being good, but nothing too forceful. I only picked it up recently because I found out it was completed after that hiatus.Anyway, I love it. It's become one of my top favorite works across comics and manga. The characters being mostly simple is part of the manga's gimmick, which is a perfect vehicle for manga character archetypes. I didn't have trouble telling them apart, but using their gem colors solely for their hair, leaving everything else black and white, would be interesting to see.
>>155209159Very nice.
>>155198857There's plenty of genuine tragedy in comics outside of capeshit
>>155211439That's a good one.
>>155199896noted
>>155207823ignore that tard
>>155198857Comics and manga are the same shit this thread is dumb.
>>155212096You didn't even bother reading.
>>155212096Same medium, different industries. And manga is run better and has more talent.
This is the comic I've read most recently that hit me in the feels. It's French, despite the manga influence on the art style. I might have ruined the ending by telling you it's a tragedy, though.
>>155208640>And when a 2 star general arrives and Frank learns he will leave, go back to Washington, and close down the military base Frank is working at it he kills the general and makes it look an accident. Because the general would have denied him his fix.This makes him very gimmicky and 2D. He's just a machine. Very different from how tragedy is portrayed by the greeks or the nips. He lacks depth as a character.
>>155213251Sounds cool but I'll probably never read it because the art is ugly.
>>155209654I had forgotten what that was called, but I remember watching that with friends. Yeah, it wasn't bad but it was really forgettable.
>>155213315I wasn't too keen on it at first, but the story drew me in.
>>155199673Fuck media literacy. The media literacy crowd are the same people who will have queer readings of very strong male friendships
>>155213315The cover looks nice.
>>155213326>watchingRead it instead. The anime is forever unfinished.
>>155208640I feel like you can’t talk about Ennis’ Frank without talking about the prequel comics Platoon and Get Fury. They kinda act as a rebuild of him, where they don’t entirely absolve him of his actions, but suggest that maybe there was a good person in him before the war took its toll
>>155214142>Get FuryReally?
>>155214701What do you mean really that’s the name of the comic
>>155214710That was written so long after.
>>155214734Okay but completes the story of all four of Frank’s tours of Vietnam (Platoon/My War Gone By/Get Fury/Born). Born is the culmination of the previous events.
>>155214770Got it.
>>155199598>Writing this I've realized part of it might be that tragedy requires the hero to lose something and never get it back. Than to explain why you should accept this as normal and correct. That's so contrary to the Western mind. Ancient Greeks exempt.I don't think you've know enough western fiction outside capeshit if you think this is the case. This is the entire theme of a lot of horror fiction in particular, see The Monkey's Paw and Pet Sematary. See also, any story about accepting aging and the consequences of trying to get back your youth. Look past your orientalism and understand that we're all the same species.
>>155213366>Fuck media literacy.Not doing yourself any favors with this attitude.
>>155198857Foolkiller by Steve Gerber
>>155213251>timothé lé buché
>>155216132I don't get it.
>>155198857Nobody here reads comics, let alone philosophy.
>>155217259I do...
>>155218096Liar. Reading is cuck behavior.
>>155218882But you just read his post.
>>155198857Seems interchangeable, applying these worldviews to fiction.
>>155213287True. But since its is based on the idea of how "Vietnam turned men into machines" I'd say it works in this run. If it didn't have this historical backing it would just sound like he is big dumb war machine and nobody could reach the off button.>>155213366To be fair a "queer reading" is not being media illetterate. It's not misunderstanding the author's meaning. It's creating a new meaning. There is nothing wrong with that.>>155214142Will read>>155215194This is a comic and cartoon board.
>>155206352Buddhist anon here who has also read a lot of Buddhist texts. Although attachment isn't an inaccurate translation, many people misunderstand what attachment means. Attachment does not mean having positive connections or relationships with other people and things, but selfish clinging, excessive control, emotional hangups, possessiveness, and dwelling in the past or dreading the future (anxiety and panic and terror). This selfishness is what fuels suffering and is responsible for the belief in illusory dualism and separation from Nirvana/Nothingness.You may love and cherish the people around you, but you must be ready to let them go, just as you must be ready to leave them when your time is up. Nirvana can only be realized when you cultivate faith, are kind, and discover understanding.It's worth pointing out that Buddhism came to Greece during its history and that the first statues of the Buddha originated in Greece. Buddhism rejects absolute free will and absolute determinism. Hence the subtlety of the Middle Path.
>>155198857Ennis' Punisher is able to hit as hard as it does because due to being a serialized story with a one-and-done narrative, the Christian-American themes are able to be introduced, developed, and resolved within the narrative.>>155208640Frank's story is very Christian (with Greek/Latin influence). His selfish pride is what dooms him and the deal with Death is a Faustian one. Frank had the choice to do the right thing and he instead chose to throw his humanity away, killing his family in the process. This is Frank's original sin that only leads to more destruction and pain.Funny considering that the original Jewish connotations of "sin" literally meant both "selfish act against God" and "selfish act against other people", but over time within Christianity's development it became solidified as god-less action crossed with a curse, whereas the original definition was parallel with Buddhism
>>155199660I think there's a genuine argument to be made that Frank is a bodhisattva, or at least could be one in the future. Many seinen and shonen hero protagonists are violent and are both capable and willing to take lives in order to preserve the Dharma/social harmony, like a Buddhist counterpart to the War Messiah/Saint concept found within Christianity. Because Frank kills so many people, he is saving innocent lives as well as giving the criminals he kills the opportunity to shed their selfishness upon death and realize Nirvana.It's something a lot of non-Buddhists don't really understand about the religion. The Eightfold Path is not strict dogma to obediently follow like in Judaism, Islam, or Christianity, but a set of guidelines to live by. You should avoid lying out of maliciousness or with selfish intent, but sometimes you may need to lie to prevent other people's feelings from being hurt or to protect someone who needs help.
>>155210401>>155213326I will say, even reading it felt a tad forgettable. Like I had seen these concepts be done between elsewhere across different works. Granted, I am not Buddhist, so much of that subtext went above my head.I did not care for Phos. Their friendships were shallow. Their struggle shallow. What little moments of introspection we got seemed contingent on Buddhist principles, and that alone does not a character make.It felt like every aspect of it, from the rocks given sentience to the corruption into declaring war on her once home and to her supposed self-realization had been done better in other forms of media.Phos felt more like an idea of a character than an actual one. Which you can argue is the point as they only become "human" at the end, but it doesn't make for memorable media.
This thread took a strange turn and, not to start a low quality religious bait post, but I think the one person talking about Buddhism is generalizing a huge amount of different sects with some pretty meaningful distinctions into one oversimplified philosophy.I don't think there are many anime/manga that I am familiar with that I would describe as properly 'tragic'. There are some tragic moments in some of them but I definitely don't think that Eastern comics/cartoons have a better 'capacity for tragedy' as the OP puts it.A lot of what Vertigo was doing back in the day was, in my opinion, a better tragic story than any 2D I've seen from Japan or Korea. Hellblazer in particular has had some really gut wrenching issues and storylines. The core conceit of Spider-Man is one of tragedy as well. Peter suffers because he is a good person and I am positive there are some excellent one-shots that exemplify the tragic nature of his character.
>>155220510>>155220811You two (or one) anons are very wise and should write more.>>155220687I think comics are very Judeo-Christan. And I think it's why they struggle to create interesting tragedy. In the Judeo-Christian frame work the cosmic order is supposed to be moral and just. So if you "do the right thing" you shouldn't experience suffering. There are exceptions such as collective punishment (like from Eden) or being 'tested'. But overall it's answer to the question of suffering is "You suffered because you did something wrong. There is free will. If you had chosen something else you wouldn't suffer." Which is hard to write for hero's who are supposed to be pillars of morality and thus shouldn't be given so much grief.
>>155221555I'm the opposite. I still think about it every so often. I hear certain music and I think about it (not music I listened to while reading because I don't do that). Only memorable works have that effect on me.I'm not a Buddhist either, but I've picked up on some of it from Eastern media.>had been done better in other forms of mediaSuch as?>Phos felt more like an idea of a character than an actual one.Do you mean character or human? Because characters come in different levels of complexity and depth.
>>155221679The problem with comics is that a lot of old hero pulps and early capeshit was rooted in Christian influence, with later authors being less religious and well-read and preferring to write shallow fanfiction poisoned by creative incestuousness. Ideally, the super-hero is Christ with their supporting cast as the immature apostles or the complicated and messy cast of the OT/Torah
>>155221902>Christian influenceAnon capeshit was created almost exclusively by jews.
>>155221927Yes, but capeshit was inspired by hero pulps which was dominated by Christian authors. Capeshit was cultivated by Jews, but with the exception of certain figures like Kirby, many were not very religious, like in the case of Superman's creators. Superman is THE super-hero but he owes more to Christ, Doc Savage (Lincoln and Christ were his biggest inspirations) Heracles, Tarzan, John Carter, Hugo Danner, and Popeye than Moses or Samson.Superheroes are as equally Jewish as they are Christian, which is why the best heroes turn the superhero into a Messiah while his immature supporting cast are the audience surrogate POV.
>>155221821>>had been done better in other forms of mediaIn terms of Phos, I mean it felt like they never really had much agency, which really robbed them of any emotional impact with me. Like Eren Yeager if the second half of AOT didn't exist and he didn't forcibly rip agency away from other characters in favor of his 'freedom' which was metaphysically impossible. They don't have the blemishes of a real human being even at the end, it's more so metaphysical exhaustion.I feel like Phos's descent into humanity as a whole was... boring and very very predictable, and not in a way that built anticipation. Compare that to Paul Atriedes, Jimmy McGill, Homura Akemi, Ken Kaneki, Punpun (his disintegration), Taylor Hebert, 9S, Agni (Fire Punch kinda mogs it aggressively in terms of how memorable it is), or even like Akira Fudo in Devil Lady (though it kinda sucked).Each one of these characters feel a bit more realized than Phos in my opinion, except for maybe Homura. When I watch or read Phos, all I could think of was: "man I wish I was reading one of those instead right now instead of some agendered rocks">>Phos felt more like an idea of a character than an actual one.>Do you mean character or human? Because characters come in different levels of complexity and depth.A little bit of both.
>>155221927Christianity was written by Jews. OP even described the Old Testament as a good model.And the "super-hero is Christ with their supporting cast as the immature apostles "is directly Jewish. Jesus's heroism is modelled on Jewish prophets like Moses. He is meant to be another iteration of them that retail that story. Every aspect of Jesus's life is narrated to try to reflect Jesus values of what a heroic prophet should look like and to make him seem like the pinnacle of Jewish morality. Part of the mythos is that he never broke a single Torah law in his life and became a master of it when he was 6.Capeshit has Christian influence BECAUSE the Jews understand these values. FFS they invented them. Stan Lee writes Spiderman to be someone that struggles but still upholds the Judeo-Christian ideas of morality. They write oppression analogies (X-men) because Judeo-Christian has both identified with and pitied the Meek.But you are probably a Chud who thinks Warhammer and /pol/ infographs are books in the bible.
>>155222607>In terms of Phos, I mean it felt like they never really had much agencyShe wasn't supposed to at first. The curse of agency was gained as she approached humanity. I still found it a brutal and riveting story. It was like seeing immortal children constantly dying and reviving and ousting one of their own. Phos' Ship of Theseus mindfuck journey was terrific. Ultimately, I don't know. It does seem like you're looking for things that were never intended to be there. I took it for what it was with my limited knowledge of Buddhist philosophy.As far as the list of other works, I don't feel as strongly about them as I do for this manga. I didn't like and don't remember much of Fire Punch beyond the first chapter and few plot points, so we strongly differ there. It bored me probably as much as LotL bored you.>A little bit of both.You saying that Phos didn't feel like an actual character is nonsensical, I think. A character can be totally shallow and still be a character.
I wish we had more threads like this.
>>155198857Moore's Swamp Thing is pretty Buddhist.
>>155225016why
>>155198857Based on what?
>>155225857Discussion.
>>155227116What, you don't like all the spam?
>>155198857Who's Punished him again?
>>155227844The Punisher
>>155228305fuck you
>>155221679You say this when characters like Spider-Man or Daredevil are defined by constant problems and suffering in their lives.
>>155213366>>155220207"Queer reading" is the byproduct of academia being overwhelmingly dominated by liberal views, and so it naturally embraced civil rights movements and everything that entailed, including identity politics. Identity politics is exactly what makes people go out of their way to read between the lines and find "trans-coded" characters or stuff like that. They're essentially doing play pretend that the media they grew up with was secretly on their side all along and the creators were closet queers or something (also why Rowling doing what she did mindbroke them so badly). It's annoying to me, but not for political reasons. It's annoying in the same way as people pretending like Dragon Ball has serious exploration of PTSD in any capacity just because it's something they grew up with and want to sound more mature than it actually is. Over the years I grew to believe that author's death only has an application with things like esoteric indie works where it's impossible to tell the author's intent. I guess there's no real harm in playing pretend and putting forth these faux interpretations, but it's essentially nothing more than headcanon and wishful thinking.
>>155218986Yes because I am a cuck.
>>155229231Nta, but japanese authors and directors are widely known to include many subtle references to various works, events and entities, both because of culture and because of autism going hand-in-hand with a lot of japanimation-related media. And as long as you have enough experience in various cultural themes (read: had read-listened to-watched a lot of things) your brain starts to see connections between most of those pieces. And if you're autistic yourself, you'll also greatly enjoy "building the web".Granted, in some cases references weren't intentional (just some random memory chiming in the creative process) in some cases reference wasn't there at all, but coincidenrially the same thing had been made in other media, in some cases it is a wishful thinking, but more often than not at least japanese media is almost never as simple nor weird as it looks to an uneducated person - japs are known westaboos, japs have many hidden by their own culture autists, who both can and will learn deep about their interests and like to explore and make systems - so complex interconnected systems they create.
Not enough comics about getting payback and dealing ice cold revenge
>>155220207>the idea of how "Vietnam turned men into machines" I'd say it works in this runRambo did this story better.
>>155229780Everything that comics have done was done better by other media.
>>155230265Not Adam Warlock
>>155230574Especially Adam Warlock.
>>155230265Disagree. Vehemently.
>>155230862Recommend me some media about meeting your evil future self then
Bump
>>155208640Isn’t Death a woman in Marvel Universe?
>>155208993A woman is being praised for killing her own children. A fictional vigilante isn’t too much of a concern.
>>155232856Abortion is good because it prevents children from being abused by shitty parents who don't want them. Euthanasia is good as well. I say this as a second-worlder, and you can say I'm subhuman for this or whatever, but I think I have more experience with seeing human suffering in shitty conditions first-hand than any sheltered middle-class American doing moral grandstanding about situations the context for which they will never understand.
>>155214142I never liked the whole, “He was always a crazed killer. His family’s Death was just an excuse.” thing. If that was the case, then why should I give a fuck? What I liked about the concept was what would you do if this happened to you? Whenever I see Catch a Predator, or stories of rape gangs, or even a family friend doing something terrible to a child, most people say, “If that happened to my kid I would (fill in the blank) and it’s always some normie that never even held a weapon. Now what if you had the skills to do something, would you? Just look how popular John Wick is.
>>155232912She strangled her children to Death. The boy actually put up a fight. I’m 100% pro choice. I never said anything about abortion.
>>155229231Let me try explaining this one. One time so even a bozo like you can get it. I'm going to invent a type of right now. It's called Doctor Pepper reading. You look at a text and see how it makes you think about a certain brand of soda. It's not saying the author may or may not have intended this. Either way it's not the point. The point is I like Doctor Pepper.This is all that's going on. People have been applying their own reading to things since written language. It's a waste of time for anyone to care. And even if you do decide it is an Omega level threat, there is nothing you can do about it. Which just reinforces that it's a waste of time to care.>>155232809Ennis's thing isn't in the Marvel universe. Super powers don't exist in it. It's part of what makes the story so good that his stakes don't get belittled by constant battles to save the multi-verse using time travel and magic powers.
>>155230900Kamen Rider
>>155234109>You look at a text and see how it makes you think about a certain brand of soda. It's not saying the author may or may not have intended this. Either way it's not the point. The point is I like Doctor Pepper.Doesn't this:a) seem like a pretty boring and self-absorbed way to engage with art where one only sees it as a reflection of their own preconceived notions?b) justify all sorts of nonsensical paranoid readings done in bad faith as viable? any work can be twisted into promoting something amoral if you apply enough mental gymnasticsc) signify creative unfulfillment that would be better realized if one worked on their original art to express themselves instead of headcanoning unrelated readings of existing pop culture creations?
>>155232856Wait, what?
>>155237903What are you confused about?
>>155236788Nothing in that post says that you should only see art as a reflection of your preconceived notions or that you should see personal interpretation of other's art as a substitute for creating your own. Do you not see the irony in you criticizing personal interpretation when you yourself are interpreting meaning in that post beyond what it actually said based on your preconceived notions? You are a hypocrite.
Don't Punish the Punisher! He had enough!
>>155229585Comics Code
>>155238425>A woman is being praised for killing her own children.
>>155199503>>155199231It’s pretty clear you haven’t read Ennis’ punisher. You’re just commenting on the concept of the character you have in your mind.
>>155240973How clear is it?
>>155240973I could say the same to you because there's between his mainline Punisher and his Max version. I read Welcome Back Frank, about 15 issues of Punisher, Born and about 10 issues of Max. I stand by what I said.
>>155241969>10 issues of MaxIsn't that halfway through the second arc?
