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>>155209341
Old news? Old news.

Amazing news for all the people who said Sonic's character would never settle down with a relationship
But this also means all the bad romance drama in Archie was intentionally done. That is... bad...

>>155209413
I dont know what this means. Did you think his hand slipped while he was holding the pen and he accidentally wrote a whole soap opera plot?

>>155209441
People thought he was just incompetently writing Sally and Sonic's romance story. Nobody thought he was intentionally ending it in favor of Shadow

So what was even the point of Sonic and Sally? Ian Flynn says she gives up on Sonic and moves on to Nicole. Bollers says Sonic would give up on Sally and move on to Amy. Penders says Sally would give up on Sonic and move on to Shadow.
That's all three of Archie's major writers dismissing the pairing. Why did they waste so much fucking page space on a romance story that was just a Liz Allen pairing?

>>155209413
>But this also means all the bad romance drama in Archie was intentionally done.
Of course, for some reason, Pender's had a stranglehold during his stay with Archie.

>>155209481
>So what was even the point of Sonic and Sally?
Archie's higher-ups trying to cling onto what little ties to SatAM remain.

>writing the main relationship of the comic bad on purpose because it wasn't intended to be canon anyways
This is basically what Kishimoto did to Naruto and Sakura

>>155209341
>wearing a crown more massive and masculine
genuinely laughed out loud

Is it crazy if I think this sounds less weird than Sonic and Sally? Sonic is repeatedly stated to have no interest in settling down. Shadow settling down also sounds weird but that doesn't have Sega people outright confirming it

>>155209341
I'm glad we didn't get the Penders version of events.

>>155209341
Not as interesting as what Bollers had planned before Penders ran him off.

>>155209918
Yeah but the alternative was the universe rebooting and undoing all of the romances due to the Penders lawsuit forcing the comic to abide by Sega canon standards.
It's hard to say which is worse.

>>155209952
Bollers wanted to kill off the entire Archie cast, and drop the remaining Sega cast in Station Square with amnesia. Soft rebooting it to Sonic X.

>>155209986
Anything is better than being stuck with Penders.

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In hindsight, the published version of the story makes no sense. Shadow is suddenly evil for no reason and marries Sally for no reason. In Ken Penders's draft they simply fell in love.

>>155210298
Penders fucking hates Sonic. I remember the future was screwed over and it was all blamed on Sonic. Even the stuff that was Robotnik's fault was somehow Sonic's fault. Knuckles messed with the universe more than Sonic and he wasn't blamed at all.

>>155210325
In this book Sonic gets Elias killed. This is one of many things that causes Sally to sour further on him and fall in love with Shadow.
Shadow oddly doesn't seem to hold anything against Sonic. He is just keeping the seething Sally under control. Penders doesn't explore what makes Shadow fall in love with her but it's very clear the reason Sally falls for him is Sonic being too unserious

>>155210378
But didn't Penders quit Archie because he didn't like Shadow and hated writing him? And Penders is the one that made future Mobius where Sonic and Sally were married with kids. Twice even.

>>155210416
No, he said he quit because Sega wouldn't give any documents on Shadow's character
He DID marry Sonic and Sally together but he also claims he never wanted to. But he said that while arguing with fans who were saying he misunderstood Sonic as a character. It's very likely he's trying to save face.
Either way, this book claims that in 2004 he would have ended Sonic and Sally in favor of Sally and Shadow

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I like the pairing in a "asshole who refuses to be impressed with the princess" kind of way.

>>155209481
I wonder if they just got sick of it after so many years without anything happening. It's them, as writers, who wanted to get away from Sally.

>>155210487
>No, he said he quit because Sega wouldn't give any documents on Shadow's character
That's weird because that implies Penders would care what Sega says Shadow is like. He comes across as someone that prefers writing things his own way and ignoring anyone else.

>>155210529
Sally doesn't have any powers, is annoying to draw, and her primary character traits clash with Sonic's especially with growing sega mandates.

>>155209481
>Ian Flynn says she gives up on Sonic and moves on to Nicole.
That was Ian's backup plan for the reboot because Sega didn't want Sonic being in a relationship with anyone.

>>155209341
This is why /sthg/ is filled with AI slop of Shadow and Sally btw

>>155210543
I think Penders is telling the truth about this book being his intent in 2004. It reads like an old Archie comic. I think he's lying about the other stuff. The only reason he says that stuff is because we now have decades of JP Sonic documentation that makes it look like he didn't understand a character who's as simple as Captain Crunch. So to counter that he has to say that Archie made him write Sonic as a married husband with kids.

We lived to see Sonally become the "Oh so you hate the authorial intent" pairing for every character involved.
I'm sure Sonamy fans and Game purist fans will react maturely to this news.

>>155210557
That's impossible. Nobody knew about this stuff until a month ago because it wasn't released

>>155210593
EVERY Sonic pairing goes against Sonic's authorial intent. He does not care about love. This isn't just a Sonally problem.

are there people who are surprised that one of the worst most conflict-loaded romances in comic history was not endgame
they were literally playing in your faces
if penders didn't kill it sonic team would have

us satam only fags suffer

Rare combo where the publisher likes a pairing, but the IP holder and the creatives both hate it

>>155209341
ken penders is just doing the same old shit of clinging to an old comic he co-wrote 30 years ago.
but it makes me wonder what ken pender's son thinks of all this. he only wrote for sonic because his son was a fan right? but he would now be in his like late 30s-early 40s. how does he feel his dad is still obsessing over something from his childhood? was sonic just a passing phase or is it something he is nostalgic for? if he is what does he think of all this shit his dad writing? how much of his dad's comics did he even read?

>>155209738
It's sounds like Penders was saying Shadow's crown has big dick energy.

>>155210035
Even getting a hammer to the balls?

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Man am I glad none of this archieshit is canon.

>>155212420
>Canon
Sonic's "Canon" personality ruins literally every ship in the first place. Archie is outright better at romance than the "canon"

>implying that Shadow would marry a non-Latina

its funny how no matter how you slice it, all of this is out of character for sonic and shadow, but perfectly in-character for sally slutcorn

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>>155212445
>Le Shadow likes le Latinas! XD
Even the person who started that shitty meme is sick of it

>>155212440
The only canon Sally is the SatAM one. All others are just knockoffs.

It's almost like these comics were made by people who did not play the video games or even read the fucking classic era manuals

>>155212458
That doesn't really change the statement that "Canon" Sonic is completely unshippable compared to Archie Sonic.

>>155212458
Satam was what introduced the trait that Sally will go after other men and easily get fed up with Sonic's playfulness. If anything Ian Flynn changed that, not Ken Penders.

>>155212463
Your framing is a lie and I reject everything you say. SatAM Sally is the canon one, deal with it.

>>155212472
>Satam Sally is the canon one
and Archie Sonic is better for her than canon Sonic.

>>155212477
Not interested in your rape fiction.

>>155212458
What is the difference between Satam sally and Archie Sally? Are you saying Archie wrote her wrong?

>2026
>We're still hearing about Sonic shit from Ken Penders
The dude hasn't worked on it in decades

In terms of character, Satam Sonic is closer to the games than Archie, but people ignore that because of the makeout scene. SatAM Sonic would never insult Tails.

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>>155212483

>>155212498
Interesting. Can you explain some of the key differences? I never knew this was a thing.

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>OH MY GOSH! I just WON'T cheat on Sonic!

Shadow is an upgrade from the skunk, monkey, and sheep guy from satam

>>155212508
Canceled season 3 of Satam also has her cheat on him again. It's in her blood.

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>>155212454
It's canon now.

>>155212454
should have known these kinds of memes get run far far faaaaar down into the ground and then some. just look at hmofa

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Shadally is just better in general.
Sonic shouldn't have a lover.

I don't have anything against Shadally but I do have a problem with Penders flat out admitting that he wrote Sonally shitty on purpose because he was killing the pairing. Just wasting the viewer's time for no reason.

>>155212544
This is LITERALLY what Kishimoto was doing with Sakura

>>155212537
Sonic is an extremely shitty boyfriend throughout the entire plot of Archie. I never understood why people shit on Sally for getting mad at him.

>>155212537
If you actually read Penders's book you'll get annoyed. He seriously overplays how happy they are together. Shadow is excited to show Sonic his new life. It's so forced. Penders writes like a teenage girl shipping. It's like he doesn't know how else to convey to the viewer that Sonic woke up in a world where Shadow and Sally are finally happy. He just shoves it right into the viewer's eyes with no subtlety. He wasn't interested in telling a compelling story, he's interested in the shock value reveal that Sonally amounted to nothing.

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>>155212530
>just look at hmofa
Gladly.

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>>155212618
exactly my point man, you need new material .

>the Sonic mobile game that apparently had Archie characters along with modern versions of classic characters in the files got canceled
fuck

>>155212731
HUMAN SHADOW ON ANTHRO LATINAS

>>155212530
>hmofa
>meme
You wish, furry.

I can't imagine a worse fate for your pairing then having Ken Pender's shill it. I'd feel bad except Shadally is absolute shallow trite.

>>155213317
It could have everyone involved with the property say it's out of character like the other pairing

>>155213348
Sonally is already dead, you don't need to shoot it more

>>155213348
Trying to champion in character with Sonic is a fools erand, only 5 characters are remotely consistent in the games characterisation wise and that's not even getting into how adaptions handle the topic.

>>155209413
>all the bad romance drama in Archie was intentionally done
Are you blind or just willfully ignorant? Do you really just want a "LOL SONIC SUCKS" thread?

>>155212508
Whats this from?

>>155209341
ALL HAIL CHADOW

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>>155209341
Well if anything, thank you Ken Penders for giving us the Lost Hedgehog Tales pt.2 that Ian couldn't.

I am so glad Shitty Acorn is gone forever.

>>155210554
And we'll probably never know what his original plans were because he's too beholden to SEGA at this point to even imply the Freedom Fighters even exist anymore.

>>155215770

>he's too beholden to SEGA at this point to even imply the Freedom Fighters even exist anymore.

Good.

Everyone does realize that Penders pulled this out of his ass to try to garner some attention for Shadow Generations and the Sonic 3 movie, right?

>>155215837
Some version of this pitch existed if Ian was able to use Shadow married to Sally.

>>155215825
What do you have against Manik and Sonia?

CVCKY SONIC
BVLLY SHADOW

>>155216139

“Evil timeline where evil Sonic (Shadow) marries Sally instead of Sonic” isn’t that hard of a concept to create

>>155216139
The King Shadow/Queen Sally stuff presented in Ian's original version wasn't "Sally loved him all along." It was very obviously a marriage of convenience because that timeline represented a world where Sonic vanished and Shadow ended up taking over the world to "save" it.

Ken put this book out to piggyback off of Shadow's surge in popularity, then started making shit up to justify any changes he made to what had already been published to make it seem like this was the way the story was always suppose to be.

>>155209341
Buy an ad, Ken.

>>155216159

Wrong show.

>>155216235
>Ken put this book out to piggyback off
Ken's entire career is based on riding on another IP's coattails.

>>155216281
Manik and Sonia are Freedom Fighters. Why do you hate them?

>>155216319

Underground was crap too. At least SatAM, bad as it was, didn't have fucking musical numbers.

>>155216330
Right but what do you have against Manik and Sonia? What did they do to piss you off so much?

>>155215770
Yeah, that usually happens when the Sega executive audibly growls in rage at the very mention of Sally's name in a meeting.

>>155216340

I never think about them.

>>155216212
>>155216235
Shadow is not evil in any of these stories, just the final one. Penders has been making the claim that Ian spitefully changed the story for years before this

I thought one of the reasons Ken left was because Sega demanded Shadow be in his __ Years Later stories and Ken refused.

>>155213803
>Trying to champion in character with Sonic is a fools erand, only 5 characters are remotely consistent in the games characterisation wise and that's not even getting into how adaptions handle the topic
This would be a great talking point if "Sonic doesn't care about dating" wasn't the one thing they all agree on when asked and was such a consistent trait that it was eventually forced into Archie itself and stated multiple times by Sega staff while Archie was running. You might as well say he isn't blue.

>>155216501
Nope. The first time Penders said that it was because Sega didn't give him any material to work with. It shows, since Penders clearly doesn't know what Shadow''s personality is like
>>155216235
I'm afraid he's telling the truth this time. One of Penders's last writings in Archie was a scene where Sally interrupted a fight between Shadow and Sonic. The two suddenly never interacted again.

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>>155216385
You think enough about them to hate on them.

Are people actually coping about this? Penders has been pretty openly trying to kill the Sonally pairing since at least 2003

>>155216553

I really don't. I hear "Freedom Fighter" I think the shitty Archie cast.

>>155213803
Why make this argument about a consistent trait?

There might be some merit to the idea that Penders modified the story to make it look like he did know about Sonic's "canon personality"
In the book, not long after Sonic learns of Shadow and Sally, he is happy that they're happy. Then he thinks to himself " I never wanted anything like that in the first place". Then he runs off to find Tails and fight Eggman. That sounds like Archie Sonic suddenly getting bodyjacked by Game Sonic

I don't know why you guys think he's lying. This is a pretty consistent followup to Sonic and Sally's dynamic by the end of the early 2000s. You have to remember Ian basically had to overhaul Sally as a character to make her work because of all the damage.

>>155216689
It's a cope. There is a point around the time this story was written where Archie Sonic literally spells out his Sega character profile while saying he would never want a girlfriend. Someone at Archie clearly got the memo long before Sega enforced it

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>>155216689
You mean the guy who turned Sally and Nicole into lesbians? I fail to see how that is fixing anything.

>>155216755
He literally did that because it was not an option with Sonic. Sega doesn't just consider it a corporate mandate but a character beat. Ian's hands were tied with Sonally, Sega demanded that it get sliced out of the comic the very minute they started monitoring the comic after getting sued by Penders. They wouldn't even let him put them back together BEFORE the reboot. What was he supposed to do?

Coming from someone who's heard all the Sega of Japan stuff about Sonic... both of these pairings are out of character.
Sonic wouldn't get married. Period. The relationship would die the second he has to compromise a single thing because that's how he's writen in every game. No amount of "His character is inconsistent anways" would cover this because this particular trait is consistent across all media made by Sonic Team.

Shadow on the other hand is basically the same. He is barely interested in anything social at all and doesn't even have friends.

>>155216888
>What was he supposed to do?
Not turn Sally and Nicole into a lesbian couple. That's literally all he had to do while waiting out Sega to chill.

>>155217000
Sega was never going to chill. At least making Sally a dyke was possible.

Although strictly speaking, he only implied it. Since Sally was an official Sega character she was never going to be allowed to date anyone.

>>155217000
>waiting out Sega to chill.
Sega literally told them to remove any indication that Sonic and Sally were ever a couple as soon as they started monitoring the comic. Archie was forced to be canon complaint before the reboot. They even removed the name "Mobius" by force.
Ian had to argue with them to not just kill off all the freedom fighters. Sega was not going to chill. Every single creative head at Sega of Japan has a hateboner for the idea of Sonic having a girlfriend except Naoto Oshima who wanted Sonic to be with Amy. Especially after 06

>>155217018
>At least making Sally a dyke was possible.
Possible but overall just a bad idea. This isn't even a hindsight thing. You can't take an established character and randomly turn them gay. See Iceman.

>Only implied it
Except Ian opened his mouth confirming what people suspected.

Sally waiting 25 years for Sonic was always absurd. Sally is very quick to move on in both Satam and Archie.
Shadow suddenly becoming evil is als oabsurd. He's just as pure of heart as Sonic if not moreso. Ian sabotaged KEn Penders's plot because he was mad about his childhood ship. Then he made Sally a lesbian because he was mad about Sega's mandates.

>>155217077
>he was mad about his childhood ship
Honestly, I can believe it.

>>155216235
Nice cope. Penders is absolutely telling the truth this time. I'm not a Penders defender but he's already complained about Ian changing the King Shadow story. The actual King Shadow story reads like complete hamfisted bullshit to preserve Sonally.
I would be on board with that except for the fact that the death bells for Sonally were already ringing. Suddenly when Ian comes on board everything randomly warps back to normal? I'll believe Penders before I believe Ian Flynn.

>>155217149
>>155216235
Ian always corroborated that the King Shadow stuff was something he inherited from Penders. He wouldn't dispute this himself.

Sonally has to be the first ship attacked at literally every angle
Ian Flynn got rid of it
Penders and Bollers tried to get rid of it
That's all three head writers of Archie actively working against it despite LITERALLY BEING THE PEOPLE WHO PUT IT IN THE COMIC IN THE FIRST PLACE
Then Sega comes along with their strict standard for how Sonic should be portrayed

>>155217202
>Ian Flynn got rid of it
Against his will, which made it all the more enjoyable

>>155217202
it's almost like even basic knowledge of sonic's character makes sonally unworkable

>>155215437
Hedgehog Jones

>>155209481
when will all the girls give up on sonic and let him move on to shadow?

>>155209481
>Ian Flynn says she gives up on Sonic and moves on to Nicole.
christ, fire flynn out of a cannon

>>155218136
This. It is painstakingly obvious that Sonic is gay

>>155218152
I like it. All the Sallyfags (unless they're a woman) have no chance now. Haw haw.

>>155218154
Sonic is for Blaze

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Well well a Sonic thread? don't mind if I announce that I'm going to release version 2 of my "bible" next saturday on the 5th of September. Remember, Remember.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zmcEuocbSMAPH0Cdu0neR7qOYrOad6dB_PXEnPRM24Y/edit?tab=t.0

The kino autism will be glorious and not cringe as they say.

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nigga uses tahoma instead of times new roman

>>155215437
honestly true

>Sally fucking other guys
not surprising
>Shadow fucking anyone
surprising

>>155216511
Yeah you are right but it's kind of a moot point when discussing the version of Sonic that was fine with dating though. Sure now he's a completely asexual dateless lad and in regards to the games that is a concrete fact that's been the case since they never made Madonna his planned human girlfriend. Though it would be hilarious if after Sega was so hardline about the no couples besides Vector simping for Vanilla they did randomly make Sonic start dating but with a new character so no one is happen among the shippers.

>>155216596
Because we are talking about the comic version that had a consistent trait of being fine with dating unlike the game version?

>>155218796
>Yeah you are right but it's kind of a moot point when discussing the version of Sonic that was fine with dating though.
Except he wasn't. That's the entire problem. Sega quite literally came in and changed the characterization of Archie's Sonic by force of mandate.

>>155218814
This is an argument flying over most peoples heads because people are mentally filling in the blanks with the game versions of the characters. Made worse by the fact that Archie itself replaced them all with "game accurate" verisions so people don't feel the need to question it during these discussions.

>>155219005
They also said for the longest time that there was two worlds, that classic Sonic was from another dimension and that money no longer existed despite Vector literally needing money in most of his appearances. Just to be clear I'm not arguing against the Sonic not being about romance thing cause it very much isn't and Sonic very much as a character isn't interested in that thing usually but a whole reboot was needed to implement that change for a version who'd been for it for like a decade. To be honest I'm not really getting your point at the moment since Archie is dead anyway and Sally has been unused for yonks with IDW getting very strict what is approved and what isn't from Sega yet still causing giant arguments over what is in character still.

>>155219119
Goind down the list of replies, the point seems to be that Sonic's character in Archie contradicts what was already known about the version in the games, where in Shadow's case not much was none and he's relatively accurate regardless of who's writing. While it can be inferred that he's aromantic, there isn't a known Sega mandate that says something like "Shadow wouldn't slow down for marriage"
And he wouldn't, but that hasn't been as pronounced as with Sonic.

>>155219119
I think their point is that if you want to use the inherent inconsistencies as a defence, it doesn't work on a character trait that is consistent.
Like someone said earlier, Archie was blatantly aware of it as early as 2003. Sonic literally looks at the viewer and spells out all the reasons he would never be in a relationship. Then the comic suddenly snaps back to romance stuff when Ian Flynn joins.

>>155219094
It's odd how Sonic fans really struggle and get angry at the idea that adaptions will make tweaks or changes to characters, hell the games do that themselves depending on which game. Obviously there are important traits that should stay in place and everyone is allowed their preferences on how a character is portrayed or what suits and doesn't suit them. I've oddly not seen this topic come up much when in regards to the paramount movies but I've also not been talking Sonic for ages now, been busy focusing on Spyro lol.

>>155219262
>It's odd how Sonic fans really struggle and get angry at the idea that adaptions will make tweaks or changes to characters, hell the games do that themselves depending on which game.
I think it's worse than this. Sonic fans readily understand that SatAM Sonic and Movie Sonic are not Game Sonic because they look different. Archie Sonic looks similar to game Sonic so they hold everything he does under scrutiny the same as IDW. It's a visual issue.
They are not looking at these comics as if they are old licensed media that didn't have a lot of reference material. They're reading it as a failed test where someone got the answers wrong. Every time Sonic kisses a woman it's "Wow I cna't believe they didn't know this detail that was mentioned on an untranslated blog in 1996"
And again, Archie had a reboot that still somehow doesn't register mentally to the fans.
To draw it back to this Shadally issue, it is spin around into a very strange situation where Sonally is a known known and Shadally is a known unknown.
We know that Game Sonic would not date or marry Sally Acorn, but Archie Sonic would. Archie Sonic's personality is ignored by purist fans because they didn't read the comic or because the comic itself retconned itself in order to be compliant with what they normally expect from Sonic.

Shadally is a known unknown. An in-character Sally and Shadow have literally never interacted. Only evil Shadow and queen Sally. While it sounds completely ridiculous, there isn't some twitter post by Yuji Naka explaining that Shadow would never do something like this. Meanwhile Yuji Naka was blunt and even venomous about how he saw western Sonic's characterization.

Again, it's a mess.

>>155209413
>But this also means all the bad romance drama in Archie was intentionally done. That is... bad...
OF FUCKIGN COURSE IT WAS INTENTIONAL.
IT WAS IN *ARCHIE COMICS*. THE UR-EXAMPLE OF THE LOVE TRIANGLE IN ACTION.
YOU'D THINK IT WAS A COINCEDENCE??

>>155219262
The average online engaging Sonic fan is in their 20s meaning they were very young when the franchise started to officially consolidate everything.
Sonic isn't Spider-man where the later incarnations are more diverse than the older ones, it's the other way around. The early incarnations are all over the place and the later ones, while still diverse are now following a strict set of rules. Younger fans see Sonic chasing ladies like Batman killing crooks

>>155209413
>Amazing news for all the people who said Sonic's character would never settle down with a relationship
Maybe I'm slow, but why do people act like this is some made up thing and not something that is observable in the fucking Sonic video games and repeated by a bunch of assorted japanese people over the years

>>155219449
I think he means that Penders claims implies that Sally and Sonic's constant drama in the 2000s wasn't just a bump in the relationship but Penders actively destroying the relationship
If that's true people shouldn't celebrate it as him "Finally understanding Sonic" but actually just plain wasting the reader's time with a romance he never intended to resolve

Penders ultimately got his wish. If he never sued Archie Sega of Japan would simply allow Sega of America to stand watch over the comics like they always have and their mandates were easier to work with.
Now that he did sue the comic had to appeal to a completely different canon for no good reason.

>>155219493
Maybe it's cause of all the times Sonic was kissing babes in other stuff that they were probably exposed to in the comics or cartoons.

>>155219813
It's not even a new or old thing . It's a constant thing. Sonic slowly stepping away from Amy in CD was telegraphing how he feels about all that in a simple way. As late as crossworlds JP Sonic is standoffish when girls, including Rouge, try to flirt with him. He doesn't like it. We know he doesnt like it. He says he doesn't like it. His creators say he doesn't like it. The mandates say he doesn't like it. The various writers who have to follow those mandates say he doesnt like it. But every time there is a Sonic thread on /co/ it's treated like it's negotiable.

>>155216553
NTA but when I think of Sonia I get a boner.
Same for Aleena too.

>>155220000
Maybe cause being asexual is lame while getting babes is rad?

>>155221370
Don't confuse understanding with endorsement

I still don’t get why Sonic hasn’t at least banged Rouge. It’s not like it’d be hard.

>>155221621
Because he straight up doesn't find her attractive. Literally says so in the JP version of crossroads. Sonic as a character is beyond sexy temptation because of some Japanese philosophy dhit

>>155221621
There is nobody Sonic wants to fuck. It's really that simple.

>>155221634
Not attractive? He really is gay

>>155221621
He doesn’t have a dick

>>155209635
Did something happen Naruto-related that there is people dunking on Naruto love-"plots" again?

>>155210518
Does anyone know what happened to this artist? He seems just... gone.

>>155209341
Can we actually trust Penders for this to be real and not him just making shit up to bank on Shadow and crap on Ian?

>>155209481
Sometimes your first on off again relationship just isn't good for you at the end of the day.

>>155221621
They have fucked, but anons are not ready for that conversation.

>>155222106
disappeared without a trace and hasn't said a word

>>155222347
Oooh, dish

>>155221621
She's not a human woman, that's the only hurdle

>>155223195
Stop trying to make Sonic/human girls a thing. Sega never wanted it, and the one time they tried it blew up in their faces.

>>155223279
Nah it's funny, based and canon so I'll keep joking about it. Professor Victoria better watch her cheeks when Sonic is on the prowl.

>>155222106
>>155222398
Whats the artist name??

>>155223298
It was never canon.

>>155223303
Hyoumaru. Guy has is a paragon of Sonic crackshipping, one of the main Shadally porn artists. His content is good to very good.
However, since around February he suddenly went AWOL, unless he told somebody something, I just hope the guy is doing ok.

>>155223298
>Professor Victoria
Oh anon, she's already fox'ed.

>>155216319
>>155216330
>>155216385
>>155216553
Sonia and Manic are one of my favorite Sonic characters. Especially Manic.

Anyway this is how I rank the Knothole Freedom Fighters
> Rotor>Uncle Chuck>Bunnie>Sally>Ducly>Antiote
This is only based on SatAM by the way as I barely read Archie.

>>155223480
Nah, Tails not getting any and being a failure to any potential he had is the biggest canon of all

>>155223568
Tails is awesome

>>155223586
He did make the Cyclone which is pretty cool, also napalm'd avian facists.

>>155217018
>Since Sally was an official Sega character she was never going to be allowed to date anyone
I hate to tell you this but I don’t think Sega would’ve given a shit about that. Reminder that Sega didn’t tell them to redesign the FFs, these official characters, that was the Archie team’s attempt at trying to appeal to them. Meanwhile Evan mentioned that during the reboot they weren’t allowed to change the clothing of the game characters to keep them on model (iirc this was about why they never wore swimsuits) which was lessened by the time they got to IDW for that chao kidnapping story. Plus, Antione and Bunnie were originally meant to be a couple yet Sonic and Sally got the boot.

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>>155209341
I don't mind failed relationships but why drag them out for so long when it amounts to nothing? Unironically, its a waste of the viewers time to lead us on for nothing of note.

>>155222116
I know some of you are hoping he's lying here but unfortunately I do not think that's the case at all.
First of all, Ian already acknowledged that the King Shadow concept was something he inherited from Penders.
Second, the book doesn't attempt to capitalize on Shadow much. As advertised it contains aun unreleased continua with Penders's version of events.
Shadow isn't the protagonist. Sonic is. Shadow doesn't do much aside from rescue Sonic and break up a fight between Sonic and Sally.
If you read the issues of Archie set right before where Penders alleges he wants this, Sally breaks up a fight between Sonic and Shadow, then invites Shadow to the castle where he meets Hope. Sally and Sonic eventually have a falling out and Sally is on bad terms with Sonic for the rest of Penders's tenure.
The character writing for Sally is also consistent. Penders writes Sally as a grim and serious woman who barely tolerated Sonic's antics. Flynn had her grow past this where it appears Penders has her eventually lose patience entirely.

According to this book, Sally and Shadow get along far better than Sonic and Sally ever did. The only counter evidence against that is the fact that Shadow randomly goes evil in Archie.

>>155209341
someone send this to cory and see what he thinks of this

>complains all the time that sonic isn't serious
>ends up with the serious version of sonic
Maybe it's because I only watched SatAM but this really kind of clicks. The only problem is Sally's design looks weird.

>>155224851
I mean the other counter evidence is the fact that Sally and Shadow NEVER interact significantly at all across the entire Archie run

>>155225017
It's interesting how two of the most prominent characters in the comic effectively met once (retroactively an attempt to pair them, aparently) and then never again. We'll never know what their dynamic would be.
Someone probably could have asked on Bumblekast before Sega banned Ian from answering Sonic questions.

>>155224851
The only time Sally is ever hostile to other heroic characters is when they go off mission or don't take the situation seriously. Shadow is always on mission and takes everything seriously. It would make for an interesting dynamic, but I don't think it would be the grotesquely lovely dovely romance in Ken Penders's book

>>155225017
I would argue that also has the double effect of saving Shadow from any moment you can easily point at and say "the game version would never do that!!!!!!!!!!"

>I wrote Sonic OOC on purpose to demonstrate why it wouldn't work out!

>>155209341
putting aside how bad he is at executing his ideas, my biggest gripe with penders is that he would absolutely not stop doing the fucking “important WORDS in the SENTENCE must be CAPITALIZED and BOLDED” shit down to the very end. he’s even doing it in this god-awful first draft. what AIDS-riddled sycophant is teaching this horrible, anti-reader practice? this is the comics version of the way netflix writes their scripts. the reader must not be paying attention to the comic they bought, so let’s just make it easy to skim over the whole fucking thing at the expensive of the characters having any kind of discernible tone in their voices.
Josh Trujillo, when he wrote the IDW “spring broken” one-shot, did the same thing. it made me so unbelievably fucking mad. imagine caring so little that you won’t even make a paltry attempt to follow the lettering style of every other issue in the entire fucking run.

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Damn

>>155210378
i’ve never liked this attitude towards writing relationships because it just strikes me as uncreative. sonic and sally are a fun relationship to explore over the course of archie because they’re illogical and challenging to each other. it’s a very boring and safe decision to say “well, eventually sally just marries someone who more embodies what she claims to want out of sonic.” wow cool. what an ending, that’s so interesting.

>>155225577
It's painfully realistic in a sense. Opposites attract doesn't usually work in real life, especially in the modern day when people are less tolerant of extreme personal differences.
But that was the bread and butter of the Sonic and Sally dynamic.
It's a hard thing to discuss because someone will inevitably show up and say "Yes, that is how Sonic is in the games, he doesn't compromise, idiot!" completely missing the point that this negatively affects the comics if you just shove it in like that.

>>155225577
That reminds me that Digimon did the exact same thing, main girl rejects the main boy. All of their personality clashing in earlier seasons actually unironically undermined his chances of getting with her.

>>155225577
What everyone else failed to mention is that after Sonic meets Shadow's kids he thinks to himself "I never wanted to be a king anyways" and realizes that the domestic life was never for him.
I'm not sure if this ending is cynical or optimistic. It is kind of tone deaf since Sonic's kids are literally dead now and he just doesn't care because he's free of responsibility.

We circled around to Shadow and Sally being the safe and easy option and Sonic and Sally being the narrative challenging one

>>155225596
yeah, being an archie fan in the first place, i’m really not a fan of people who are too insistent on sonic staying rigid. it’s not unreasonable to imagine a future where both sonic and sally have changed each other to a degree that makes them manageable as a couple. hell, i would argue that sonic has all but settled into being an attack dog for the kingdom of acorn by the end of preboot anyways. how much more “settling down” would he even need to do?
that being said, king sonic is difficult to grapple with. i think it would make a lot more sense for both their arcs if sally simply rejected her crown altogether and either led the nation in a full democracy or simply fucked off to be a freedom fighter full-time.

>>155225577
>“well, eventually sally just marries someone who more embodies what she claims to want out of sonic.”
I'm not a fan of the archie comics but you're right. It's like the writers felt that Sonic will never actually develop into the guy Sally wants so Sally, instead of investing time in Sonic, just goes for the "Sonic" who is already at that point. Completely undercutting all of Archie Sonic's character development.

>>155225653
i think you’re conflating viewer response with writer logic here. my argument was that sonic and sally is creatively challenging (see their constant clashing over the entire run) and that penders is spinning shadally as a logical, sensible alternative.
obviously, to the majority of fans, there would be nothing safe or easy about a shadally endgame and sonally is the obvious default.

>>155225671
it also just makes her look totally flat and shallow. the draw of a relationship like that is that she’s drawn to sonic despite him not meeting her standards on paper. that’s where the drama’s supposed to come from. that’s the hurdle they’re supposed to overcome! the ken penders endgame is “everyone gives up.”

>>155225679
>sonally is the obvious default.
Sonally is less than the 7th most popular pairing for Sonic currently but I get your point

>>155225697
archie fans specifically i mean. sally is lucky if she’s beating surge nowadays

>>155225696
I am one of those people you guys are talking about who looks at the Archie comics and finds it almost inconcievable how Sonic is acting, but yes this all just sort of reads as some kind of "punishment" for Archie Sonic. That doesn't make for a great story.
I can't think of any other examples but this is very much like
>Here is the idealized version of exactly what Sally wants on a silver platter
And you know most stories would use this as a starting point for the character to develop and learn, but what Penders is using it as a final death of Sonally, assuming I'm understanding that.
Like if Mary Jane met a guy who is e xactly like Peter but is also able to make time for her and has a lot of money and she just marries him instead and Peter gives up.

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You guys are making great arguments but eventually the comic would have to address the fact that Shadow is quite literally what Sally keeps telling Sonic to turn into. That's not even a Penders invention. That goes back all the way to the early issues. Even the early gag era issues draw attention to the fact that Sally doesn't like Sonic being a silly goofball and wants him to be a serious logical mission drone.
It's true that this is obviously set up for Sally and Sonic to eventually learn to compromise, but there's the snag. Shadow would get added to the comic. Shadow would fit that description. Sega will eventualy start throwing characterization mandates like "Sonic does not compromise".
Even the Paramount movies are forced to follow that rule and once you notice it the writing gets really awkward trying to work around it.
Penders's solution is to just have Sally give up on Sonic entirely and go for Shadow. Ian Flynn's solution is to have Shadow and Sally never acknowledge each other's existence. I think a smart writer would have had Sally look at Shadow and realize that there are flaws in what she wants Sonic to become.

Obviously there is not much you can do about Sega's side of thigns but I think you simply cannot have Shadow in Archie without directly comparing him to Sonic either way.

I never shipped Shadally or cared about the romance in Archie but I always thought it was a distracting elephant in the room that Shadow fits Sally's exact parameters for what Sonic is supposed to become and the comic just never brings it up.

>>155225760
i think you’re believing sally too much when she makes claims about what she wants. it’s a very common trope (and it’s on display from the beginning of the comic) for the female lead to huff and turn up her nose at the male lead’s antics while secretly finding it charming. she’d have no reason to keep coming back to sonic if it didn’t NEED to be sonic. raw attraction transcends logic.

>>155225779
I want to agree with this post, but I don't. And I think you misread me.
There are issues of 90s Archie where Sally's internal monologue outright hates Sonic's playful side and in these new Penders's drafts it escalates to Sally trying to have Sonic executed. So yes Penders's read of the character is that she literally just outright hates the way Sonic acts and isn't just being a tsundere.
I'm saying that part just shouldn't exist and if anything Shadow could be used to exemplify the error in what Sally asks of Sonic.

I also don't like Flynn's approach either because now it retroactively reeds like him keeping the two characters separate to avoid acknowledging this..

Lastly I don't know any workaround for Sega's character mandate because realistically that can't be held against any of the writers.

>>155225779
In the Shadow files book, Shadow is the one more tolerant of Sonic and Sally is screaming for Sonic to be held on trial for treason. I don't think that's her secretly finding it charming lol.

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SATAM and Archie gave Xennials the wrong idea about the franchise.

>Robotnik used to be this evil guy with red eyes and a metal arm and now he's "Eggman". Why did they create this new name to replace Robotnik?
>Where's Sally and the Freedom Fighters?
>Why are there humans other than Robotnik?
>Why is it now Earth instead of Mobius?

Sega of Japan should've made a more game-faithful anime series in the 90s and binned SOA's lore.

>>155225760
Frankly there is literally no way to contend with the Sonic side of things. If Penders doesn't kill Sonally Sega of Japan would. That much is true.

Maybe I'm ignorant but this literally could be avoided by not writing things that the people who created the characters said they hate?
You can point out that the "nanpa" interview where Naka says he hates the idea of Sonic being a flirt is old and obscure but he said the same shit in english while Archie was still running during the 2000s in a very public forum. Did anyone seriously think that wouldn't eventually come around to bite Archie in the ass? It did. This literally happened. Sega fucked over Archie's story specifically because of character choices made by Yuji Naka so this isn't just something that can be ignored.

>>155225779
The irony here is if you swap Sonic and Shadow out for the game versions these issues all become even worse because Game Sonic is this emotionally impenetrable demi god who is ALWAYS silly and has 0 room for intimacy while Shadow blushes when he's complimented and cries when he's sad

>>155225827
>>155225851
i’ll begrudgingly concede that penders’ interpretation of sally must be taken into consideration since he indeed contributed to her character. gallagher and flynn’s sallies definitely fit my vision a little better.
when we have to sit here and make these distinctions, i curse him for his documented refusal to work alongside the other writers, even electing not to read their stories and immediately undo things they set up. sally wouldn’t be as inconsistent if they could just decide on a plan forward.

anywho, i’m not sure if i agree that they needed to acknowledge shadow as a potential love interest for sally, but i wouldn’t have hated a throwaway scene that did so. i can easily picture sally lamenting something or other about where her heart lies, maybe amidst that period where she was going steady with ken, and bunnie would be like “well what about that shadow the hedgehog feller, he seems ripe for the picking” and then flynn would have all the freedom in the world to have sally list off some reason or another that she didn’t find shadow appealing. you could drum up literally anything. maybe she doesn’t like his gravelly voice and his stupid shoes, i’unno.

I think Penders is telling the truth. His version of the story explains why Sally is with Shadow, doesn't turn Shadow evil. Explains what happened with Hope Kintobor. Explains why Elias isn't around in the future. Explains that Sonic didn't want to be a king. The Archie published version of the story is extremely rushed. It literally has word bubbles coming out of the wrong characters. Shadow is evil for no reason. We are just left to assume a ton of offscreen events happened that completely warped his personality with no actual story behind it. Just random bullshit that feels like it's 20 chapters into a story we never actually saw.

The Penders version is far more cohesive. Yes it sucks. Yes it spits in the face of 10 years of development. Yes it does weirdly end in an unusually Sega-compliant note. But I believe him.

>>155225905
you’re reminding me that when archie sonic was at peak fuckboy, and right before ian had to wrangle that into something a bit more recognizable, X sonic was running around, all japan-sanctioned, being an entirely different kind of asshole that the entire archie cast would’ve hated. he was aloof, lazy, didn’t answer to literally anyone, and completely adverse to sincerity unless he was in control of the interaction. archie was a cunt but by comparison he could at least take a smidge of accountability. fuckin’ lmao.

>>155225921
Someone on /vg/ made a document detailing Sally's character in Satam (Ironically I'm pretty sure that person ships Shadow WITH Sally too) but it was the first time I ever heard there is a difference between how Sally acts in Archie and Satam. I guess I'll have to watch Satam some day to be sure.

>>155225962
i wasn’t going to cite her SatAM characterization because we were specifically talking about archie, but i would argue SatAM sally is not only extremely consistent but also embodies the trope i was describing better than she does for the majority of archie. you are never for a second fooled into thinking she actually hates sonic. i’m an archie cocksucker so i am opposed to the guy earlier in the thread who was talking about cartoon sally being the one true sally and all that, but i’ll admit he didn’t choose poorly.

>>155225921
>anywho, i’m not sure if i agree that they needed to acknowledge shadow as a potential love interest for sally,
I must have worded something poorly. I didn't mean that. I meant more that there is a life-model of the guy Sally says she wants. Present that to her and demonstrate that she doesn't want it.
I'm not advocating for Sally considering Shadow as a love interest. I'm advocating for Sally having a moment of "sheesh, maybe it isn't so bad that Sonic is a bit goofy" as opposed to Ian (Ignore that Shadow exists) or Penders (Go straight or Shadow because he's mr serious). It would be funny to contrast Sally with a character who is ten times as serious as she is. Maybe put her on the receiving end of her own criticisms.

TLDR. We have two characters who are conceived as "opposite of Sonic" and the comic doesn't acknowledge it. That is weird. The only writer who seemed to consider acknowledging it was Penders and he did this by undermining Sonic and Sally's dynamic.
The way things stand now I cannot argue in good faith that Sally wouldn't consider Shadow because the comic doesn't address it. They don't know each other. I'm saying that it would be interesting if it did bury the hatchet on that idea.

I think the problem here is that Penders's new story frames all of Sonic and Sally's conflict as something killing the relationship instead of a hurdle to overcome

Combine that with Sonic fanboys growing inability to understand different incarnations will have different personalities and now you have people disingenously cheering Penders on for shitting on something they hate.

>>155225988
I think you just convinced me to watch Satam, but I like Archie too so I doubt I'll be brainwashed into purism. I can see why people would get fed up with the inconsistent character writing in Archie. I usually feel like the pre-Ian issues mostly don't count.

>>155225998
i’m not sure how i missed your actual point, my bad. i completely agree with this idea, though i still don’t think it’s necessarily a failing on flynn’s part that it never happened.
as usual, ken comes up with something golden and squanders it. sally realizing she’s not sure what she wants SHOULD be the natural conclusion to meeting someone who’s supposedly what she’s looking for, but that would require having a brain i guess…? he does this a lot whenever he writers parental figures, too. genuinely compelling beginnings of family drama plots with characters like king max or locke and then ken remembers that he loves his abusive dead father so the story must end with the children being subservient.

>>155226045
i think it depends! gallagher’s versions of the characters are consistently charming, shallow as they may be, and bollers is an unsung hero for crafting some of the best and weirdest of what most consider the “penders era.” i prefer the flynn stuff too, but i grew up with the oldest stuff so i’m inclined to see the best in it.

>>155226046
>as usual, ken comes up with something golden and squanders it
Completely agree. I also agree that it isn't a failing on Ian's part. If I understand correctly Ian believed Shadow is protagonist material so he focused on giving him his own stories instead of making him share the spotlight with Sonic. That is more than valid.
I could probably go on and on about how I find Penders's viewpoint repugnant. I'm sure there is some way to tell his shadally story, I'm not going to get up in arms about it. I've backed the "wrong" pairing before and had the writer pull the rug out from under me, whatever.
Penders's logic is blatantly "Sally just gave up because Sonic is an annoying guy and skipped over to the guy who is already at point B like a 20 year old dating 50 year olds because they are richer than the men in her age range"
Penders sucks.
There's other writers who've handled this exact concept better, so many times in fact it is practically a cliche. The love interest meets a guy who is just the protagonist but better, this is further used to illustrate that there are things she really likes about the protagonist specifically that go further than the superficial details.
But nope, Penders needs his shock value.

>>155226030
i think newer fans just don’t really want to believe the world was ever a different place. if flynn had jumped on the (massively popular mind you) comic in 2006 and suddenly thrown out everything that had been set up prior, completely changing sonic’s personality, etc., he would have been decapitated. he took the smartest possible path, which was gently steering things in the direction of the games while still taking every opportunity to pay tribute to the history the comics had built up.

TLDR japan purist sonic wasn’t an option because japan purists weren’t the audience. who woulda thunk?

>>155226081
I would argue the only way this shadally story works is if you kick off the story with the understanding that Sally is not going to end up with Sonic. Sonic using his game personality which really clashes with people who don't worship the grass he walks on.
With Archie the problem is that the comic is telling a story about Sonic and Sally and gets hijacked by Sega of Japan 250 issues in.

>>155226084
It's funny that we saw this happen to Charmy.

>>155226084
Ever watch Bleach? The Bleach anime went through this and the fandom never recovered. It deviated too much from the source material and suddenly snapped into place without addressing what came before and now w'ere in a neverending ship war

>>155226104
AND IT SUUUUUCKED. but i’ll take him being the sacrificial lamb over basically anyone else

>>155226112
geez, that’s rough. i don’t envy them. FMA was kind enough to just do it over.

>>155226084
>>155226104
I beleieve Ian said before that what happened to Charmy was inevitably going to happen to Sonic and they were lucky Sonic Team let them go as long as they did before demanding personality changes.
I don't know the exact issue but it's actually during the Mecha Sally arc, nto the reboot, that Sega put their foot down on how Sonic has to act in the comics.

>>155226084
Happened to the Pokemon Anime in 2003 and arguably contributed to the death of the main writer. He was told to stick to advertising the games and stop trying to write compelling character stories

https://cptahab.substack.com/p/sacrifices-to-the-altar-of-the-pokemon
TLDR what you're describing happened. Someone was telling a story their way and the IP holder wasn't fucking having it and instead of having any leeway they MADE him stop immediately. The argument being that it's their characters, not his.
It's an interesting read. This stuff literally killed somebody.

>>155226134
yeah, sounds about right, someone else implied as such earlier. i guess i can thank my lucky stars that, for all intents and purposes, preboot ends with sonally endgame.
i mean, it basically did, right? they were triumphantly reunited before genesis, and then sally was cruelly torn away again. there’s nothing between that and the reboot to imply that they wouldn’t have still been together after she was restored. kinda makes me glad we didn’t have to see what would’ve happened.

Any adaptation that runs concurrently with the source material will suffer that fate if it goes on long enough

>>155226134
>>155226158
That is true. If the Penders lawsuit didn't force a reboot, Sega would have forced the comic to comply with mandates that broke the story. Ian got the idea of Sally and Nicole around that time.

>>155226158
I must be going crazy because preboot ends with Silver killing mecha Sally and then the universe fading to white and Sonic and Tails being born into a universe where Sally doesn't even exist.

>>155226200
well yeah but, i mean, (waving hand vaguely) the assumption would be that they’re going to try to de-roboticize her after that, and up to that point there was nothing deconfirming sonally. anything but, really. the crossover is neither here nor there because ian didn’t even know what he was going to be able to do past that point just yet. i don’t count it as part of preboot.

How do you even handle a story like this with the parent company actively working against important plot points?

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>>155226168
which, frankly, he’s lucky was so well set up prior. i’m gonna kill my credibility on this thread here and say that i think sally and nicole make perfect sense even just going off of preboot, and if it weren’t for that then flynn would’ve had a way harder time.

>>155226224
i mean, as we’ve seen, it’s unbelievably difficult. that’s one of the reasons that i refuse to discredit the modern writing staff, imperfect as stanley and flynn may be. they are fighting tooth and nail for a thankless job that only a truly dedicated writer would ever bother to put up with.

>>155225962
>(Ironically I'm pretty sure that person ships Shadow WITH Sally too
sthgfag here, I'm pretty sure that guy was joking and that this whole Penders thing is a coincidence that happens to line up with the joke uncomfortably well

>>155226232
i mean, i haven’t seen the post, but he wouldn’t be the first unironic shadally shill if he was being serious.

>>155226244
He's talking about a game developer from sthg who wrote a story where Sally falls for Shadow and it backfires on both of them. It's played up as a joke and it's set in the world of the games, but with Sally present and using her Satam personality.
This was years before the Penders stuff and the Shadally thing is played off as a crass gag that doesn't work because Shadow is so unbelievably stoic.

>>155226257
ah, i see.

>>155226244
>>155226257
I wonder how that guy feels now that Penders says it was his intention for Shadow and Sally to be together

>>155209481
Ian Flynn just wanted lesbians, he has an obsession with including them for some reason. Despite still being told no

>>155226226
To be fair I never understood why people get mad at Sallicole. The purist argument can't be used to defend Sonally in the first place so both of these pairings should be judged based on the actual stories they tell and not their accuracy to the "creator's true intention"

>>155226257
Chroniclesfag has a habit of predicting things before they actually become canon.
I'm still waiting to see if he covers Silver.

>>155226312
Taking a straight character and later making them "bi" lesbian is a tired trope.

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>>155226299
I told him to draw something now that we have this Penders news and he delivered, but I'm pretty sure he never sincerely backed the ship. Also he like >>155226257
said he specifically uses Satam Sally and game Shadow so it doesn't really fit any Archie dynamics

>>155226324
Did he have a choice? Sega wasn't going to let him put Sonic in a relationship

>>155226334
If everything he draws becomes canon then maybe he should draw Sega making good games

>>155226226
I hate that people use the image of this issue of Sally awkwardly smiling as a design reference

>>155226226
>Credibility
Sonic fans must be uber strict if you have to frame it like this

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>>155226364
dude, i’m not kidding, i think about this so often. it’s bates’ single worst sally and it only gets used because it’s conveniently a full-body photo.
bates gets over the wall-eyed thing real fast and he even has better sallies within this very issue (pic related) and then starts cranking out pure kino when they confront geoffery and naugus. he’s my favorite archie artist and i’m sad he’s forever associated with that fucking sally image.

>>155226384
i was just being facetious because this thread hates sallicole. outside of 4chan very few people will bite your head off for being into it.

>>155226341
Why does Sally NEED a relationship?

>>155226389
I know which drawing you're talking about but I genuinely don't get what's wrong with that sally besides the eye placement

>>155226389
It's like that one bad Goku image that keeps getting used everywhere

>>155226409
i dunno man, why is it a problem? what’s the issue? if you have actual thoughts on sally fucking her computer past “making women gay sucks” i’ll hear you out.
it kinda just sounds like you wish sally was still fucking sonic. which is fine. i like when sally fucks sonic. but i don’t think its a problem if sally fucks her computer. i would also fuck sally’s computer if i could.

>>155226418
it’s the eye placement. i’m anal enough about expressions that the eye placement genuinely makes me that annoyed.

>>155226418
She's specifically making an uncomfortable look but it gets treated as the base design for Preboot Sally
Whenever someone says they think Preboot Sally is ugly, I know that image is what they're thinking of as her default expression.

>>155226431
it’s crazy to me that reboot sally has any shooters whatsoever when they shaved her cheek fluff And her cute bushy eyebrows And made her colors too bright And made her outfit less concise and reflective of her personality like okay where’s the improvement exactly

>>155226439
Reboot Sally is only liked because she's sega compliant

That was the problem with comic book adaptations of video games back then. Most of the writers never played them outside of Pong or Space Invaders, or at all.

>>155226418
If you take that drawing out of context and act like that's how Sally normally looks it doesn't do her any favors

>girl who wanted sonic to be serious was planned to end up with serious sonic
yeah no shit

>>155226500
There is a good reason why this is bad writing

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>Penders confirms he was planning to go the Shadally route had he not parted ways with Archie
>Speed Simulator confirms Shadikalfags' long-standing theory about how Shadow would interact with Tikal in a canon(-adjacent) scenario
This is truly the year of Shadow crackshipping.

On the bright side, if we got this story, that would mean Penders never left and we would still have Archie

The way Shadow acts on recent media, this is basically just Sally marrying herself especially Prime. Shadow does the exact same "Please be more serious, but I care about you" schtick

>>155225921
Shadow is literally just Sally again after his development. By 2022 their dialogue is almost the same. Complaining that Sonic should take things more seriously and rolling their eyes with a smile when he turns out to be right

>>155210645
This, he is a corporate mandated safe mascot character. He will never experience any genuine emotions.

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>>155225998
>We have two characters who are conceived as "opposite of Sonic" and the comic doesn't acknowledge it.

I'll go one bit further than this. It's a glaring error that there are two prominent characters in the same story with similar dynamics to the protagonist who don't even know each other and are never compared by the text. The only reason this doesn't stick out as silly to long term Archie readers is because they know innately that this is a licensed comic that is forced to adapt as many characters from the Sega games as possible. It's still dumb.

>>155226970
>I'll go one bit further than this. It's a glaring error that there are two prominent characters in the same story with similar dynamics to the protagonist who don't even know each other and are never compared by the text
They weren't compared... until now where they were apparently married and have the best, happiest most conflict free marriage ever because they're on the same wavelength and understand each other deeply.

Extremely weird. I wonder how Ian would write these two interactiong. The actual Shadow, not his evil AU clone.

>>155225868
>Why are there humans other than Robotnik?
Both SatAM and Archie had humans appear before the games did. The human complaints always came from the hardcore Genesis era fans

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>>155226998
>The actual Shadow, not his evil AU clone.
Ian can write the actual Shadow?

If only Sonic Team added more Echidna lore back in 94, we wouldn't had to endure Ken's Freudian ramblings

>>155227172
I would agree, if it wasn't for Fleetway Sonic introducing an echidna tribe suspiciously similar to the one in SA1 way before the game itself, and way before Penders' first issue delved into echidna civilization.

>>155227194
I thought that was the french one

>>155227233
>I thought that was the french one
Oh, that one must be it, my bad.
I knew it was a European one, I just wasn't sure which.

>>155225868
Robotnik is the fat guy who says double nigger, all other depictions are fanfiction.

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It's gonna be funny when Movie Four comes out and everyone starts comparing Movie Amy to Sally, despite her actually being a copy of Fleetway Amy... who is based on Sally, but still.

>>155226824

>Speed Simulator confirms Shadikalfags' long-standing theory about how Shadow would interact with Tikal in a canon(-adjacent) scenario

Yay

>>155227172
>>155227194
what ken refuses to acknowledge, and what might’ve been helpful to bring up in court, is that every idea for the echidnas is extremely simple and easy to come up with. three groups independently landed on “ancient tribe” with ken’s being a little more technologically advanced. Bioware didn’t have a problem taking inspiration from archie because they rightfully believed “secret society of echidnas” was the obvious route and it wouldn’t be weird if multiple people tried it.

>>155226824
i like shadikal so i enjoy the only crumb ill ever get

>>155209341
Should’ve been Sonic and Shadow desu

>>155216755
>>155217000
I thought it was implied Nicole was into my boy Shard

>>155229797
Shard doesn’t exist in the reboot-universe.

>>155229797
She was. Then Shard was retconned out of existence, so Nicole is gay instead.

>>155229797
shardicole is excellent! but shard was lost in the reboot. ian tried to implant some of shard’s mannerisms onto gemerl but it kind of sucked, and i wouldn’t have wanted to see nicole fuck gemerl. we also got a little bit of material where it seemed like they were setting up her and espio, for some reason…?

personally, i’m not opposed to a little bit of polyamory. i think sally fucking her computer should continue even if both sally and her computer are fucking other people. if sonic or shard are questioned about this, they’d just wave their hand and go, “well, it’s sally and nicole, y’know? they’re just like that.”

>>155228573
> Fleetway Amy... who is based on Sally
Huh no? Where'd ya get that from?

>>155229797
tbf, we had nothing from Nicole's side on the relationship. It was just a one sided crush from Shard's side. You can tell this was added way later after Shard became popular because Ian was setting up Nicole/Espio, but nobody liked it, so he pivoted to the fan popular ship instead.

>>155228573
Fleetway Amy is in no part based on Sally lmfao. They’re both based on generic action girl tropes executed differently

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Sonic himself is redpilled.

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>>155209341
YABBA DABBA DOO!!!!

>Sonally was out of character even in Archie itself
Turbo shipping death

>>155231911
We knew this with the super genesis wave. Penders is just rubbing salt in the wound

Okay but I still like Sonally.

>>155209341
He did what?!!

>but Archie couldn't have known game Sonic's characterization
and yet it's addressed in this shitty book written by the guy behind all the romance crap in the first place

>>155229623
Iizuka approved all those Tikal interactions, so all the art and fanfic that started with:
>Shadow noticing Tikal due to her personality reminding him of Maria
>Tikal looking past his aloof exterior to see his good heart
Were retroactively validated. It is cute, even if it never amounts to anything else.

>>155227120
We don't know, technically he has never honestly tried. Whenever he gets Shadow close to game portrayal, it was usually the Jap team meddling with the script (same with Evan).

>>155235473
What about the Forces prequel comic?

>>155235513
I have to confess I have not read that one yet (Mostly due to overall disdain for Forces), do you believe they did him justice there?

>>155226112
I couldn’t look at the first Bleach anime after learning the director or whoever forced in an OC to push his pet ship lol, that’s weird ass shit there.

>>155226128
I do remember the ships the director or writer tried to(?) force never actually took off in the fandom (east nor west) at least. There were fights sure but nothing past that (fanfics or fan art). Probably helps that those characters weren’t popular anyway.

>>155236346
>forced in an OC to push his pet ship
No offense but this is what Archie looks like to younger fans, especially with panels of Amy approving of it.
Even modern toned-down Amy starts seething if Rouge gets anywhere near Sonic

>all those times she complained about sonic not being serious she literally meant she'll fuck the most serious guy in the room

>>155209341
Isn't Ken Penders a retard who has been forced off the Sonic Autism Train and is now completely irrelevant, writing his own poorly drawn comic?

>>155237106
Yes, but you forgot he’s still clinging to the train for dear life and absolutely refuses to let go.

>>155236911
That’s true, Amy’s personality type would have her be the jealous kind, she expresses this towards Fiona (before she knew about her betrayal) in some pages even. I can see why Ian did it though, as to not cause infighting but at the same time making a character (who’s the “original love interest”) push another ship will always look very strange. I saw this with Steph from the Batman comics, it was so fucking awkward lmfao.

I think Archie shouldn't have tried to adapt the games as they kept coming. It should have just been a fully non canon satam adaptation doing its own thing.
As anon said earlier, Shadow is a weird character. Having two characters who occupy the exact same concept of "Opposite of Sonic" in different ways is weird, especially when Shadow's development is completely glossed over. The only reason the comic does this is because it HAD to include Shadow to promote the game. It should have just been a satam comic, then there wouldn't be so much scrutiny over the details it gets right and wrong. Nobody talks about the movies this way because the movies didn't try to retcon themselves into a version of the games

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>>155209341
It was pretty blatant and obvious even in the preboot that the Sonally ship was soon to be sunk; had not Penders himself fucked everything up, it was gonna end sooner or later after the derobotization of Sally made it set in stone, the beginning of the end of that ship.

Now, regarding Shadow & Sally... I don't consider that crackship to be worth anything, simply because the pairing of official characters with characters of derivative work origins is something that only stirs shit up.

I don't give a fuck about Sally being paired with anyone else for that matter, or heck, give them the lesbian treatment so Ian can have their lesbian perfect combo lynx shit and fuck off.

I prefer the Shadamy crackship, btw...

>>155237623
You say that like shadamy wouldn't cause an immediate war among amy fans. Pairing characters with non canon characters mean that the pairing dies when the character dies. Nobody has ship wars over Tails's love interests because none of them are canon.

>>155237623
Ian Flynn and Archie editorial were the only things keeping Sonally alive. Penders and Bollers made it absolutely clear they would have ended the pairing if they had total control and Sega would have obliterated the entire concept in the name of brand synergy. It's a rare case where the top and bottom levels of the corporate ladder were on the same page, but the publisher and the new blood writer were on a different one.

I think Sonally fans are handling this with more maturity than a lot of other fandoms would. Pokemon fans are still seething about all their ships being suck.