Post opinions and questions about Watchmen!
>>155226533Calls himself Ozymandias, aka Ramses 2nd, but is all about Alexander the Great. Why call himself not Alexander?
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>>155226540 < - > >>155226550Never saw those. Are they related to those?>>155226558
>>155226568Poor Odie...
>>155226540This is cool. “Sunday Newspaper“-Men!
>>155226578Calvin would never do to Hobbes what happens to cute giant cat
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>>155227684You think too narrow. Calvin just buys a new stuffed tiger and imaginates Hobbes spirit into it!
I read somewhere that Manhattan's blue color was a random pick by Gibbons, but I'm coincides so well with his powers. Any other color would have been wrong.
>>155228356I read that Alan Moore wanted that because he saw some nuclear powerplant reactor photo where the energy was blue.
>>155228356>>155228481I'm pretty sure Dave Gibbons has said that he picked blue because it substitutes well for a flesh color. It's not even the first time he has done it.
>>155228481Cherenkov radiation blue is perfect for his time powers.There's also the blue-skinned Hindu god Vishnu, who wields the Sudarshana Chakra, the Wheel of Time. Doctor Manhattan wears it on his forehead the way Doctor Strange wore the Eye of Agamotto, except as a permanent tattoo.
The way Blake happens to find Veidt’s ‘Known associates of Dr. Manhattan I gave cancer to’ list is really dumb. Why is Ozy keeping that on his monster movie island? Shouldn’t it be in his safe in Karnak if anywhere?
>>155226533Wasted potential.
>>155229553Indeed. DC wasted ressources.
>>155229553Alan Moore talked about ideas for a prequell story. And i believe that those ideas endedn in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. While DC used that as the main book for the Before Watchmen event.
>>155226533I just don't care much for it, it's ok if you like it but all the threads about how it's the greatest comic ever or Alan Moore's political opinions are kinda annoying>>155228855I love Rogue Trooper though.
>>155229542He had lackeys administer that shit. Ozy didn't do it himself.
>>155228855Or Alan Moore had this idea before Dave Gibbons. He already made a time displaced blue being. In The Omega Men #26 from May 1985 he already had one.
>>155228932Indeed. Thats a good assumption. Since the UK had ties to India and many Indians living in the UK.And we see how much India is in Watchmen. Thats probably Moores life where India was present.
>>155229542I have to re-read that but does he say that he finds everything on that island? Or was it just the artists and scientists?But it could be that they developed the cancer material in the lab too. And enough evidence that leads to the programm or blood samples with names.
>>155230040And the last page.
>>155229850>I just don't care much for itThats fine. Thanks that you are open about it and dont hate us other for being so weird.
>>155226538He says somewhere he resonated with and admired Alexander's adventurous and conquering spirit, but his inability to settle and secure the empire led him to move on to Ramses who had a longer reign.
>>155226533Watchmen is a great comic, but Moore is a retard who doesnt understand his own story. Him being butthurt over people liking Roarschach proves what a bloviating ass he is. He also clearly took inspiration from Frank Millers work with Daredevil and Wolverine for that "gritty" NYC look which is fine, but he later started trashing Miller when it became fashionable too.
>>155227094No, different peoplethe black-and-white ones were from PVP by Scott KurtzI forgot who did the color onesI can't decide whose comic strip casting is better, Dilbert as Manhattan is worth it for the tie joke but Kurtz's take on Dilbert as Ozymandias is unintentionally slightly prescient about what happened to the Dilbert comic IRL got canceled after controversy, brought back in "spicier" format Though I feel like Kurtz could've made Popeye's dialogue more Popeye-like and the other artist should've had the text changed to show Loud Howard screaming
>>155230250alan moore is what happens when the legends don't die. imagine kurt cobain alive today - he would be a total woke LGBT tranny insufferable faggot
>>155230232I thought that he kinda adopted Alexanders name as a Pharao, Setepenre-Meryamun. Or that of the Greek dynasty founder, Ptolemy.
>>155230250>>155230499You guys are retards who only know clickbait articles. Rorschach was clearly designed to be sympathetic and engaging. He drives the narrative. He has his flaws but he’s not meant to be evil,Moore attempts to get into the mentality of why he would become what he is. More just clowns in dorky fanboys who think they’re just like him in a heroic way. When they’re just smelly antisocial nerds with a sense of superiority. Not people who’d actually have the drive to try and save( or avenge) people.
>>155228481>>155228932More over, Oppenheimer’s “ I am become Death” quote which relates to Vishnu, a blue deity with the ability to multiply his form and limbs and is blue
>>155230388>I forgot who did the color onesAndrew B GeorgeHe also did this bonus panel
>>155230807Did Oppenheimer refer to Vishnu or is it an interpretation of others knowing Hinduism?
>>155230499Nothing wrong with being LGBT.Also define woke.
If Manhattan's the personification of the god of the atomic age, what would something like that be like for the contemporary age?
>>155230762no anon, youre the coping faggot and a tourist. Moore himself has said he doesnt like it when fans say they like Rorschach. He wrote him to be a compelling character, but he also wrote him to be a right wing nutjob and as someone the reader would hate, find ridiculous if not tragic and pathetic, and genuinely see as NOT heroic. The character was a direct refutation on Steve Ditkos work with The Question, another blank faced, noir inspired detective obsessed with unraveling conspiracy theories. Heres a direct quote from Moore.>“I wanted to kind of make this like, 'Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world'. But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans, that smelling, not having a girlfriend—these are actually kind of heroic! So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street saying, "I am Rorschach! That is my story!' And I'll be thinking: 'Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live'?”>>155230599I also find it really interesting that Moore, the arch leftist, made the hero of watchmen a Chad, billionaire, Nietzschean, aristocrat whos completely disconnected from humanity and sees killing millions of them in a terrorist attack as a calculation to achieve his goals of reaching world peace. And even then, that goal is essentially just a vanity project for his ego.
>>155231669>what would something like that be like for the contemporary age?
>>155231669Something akin to Freakazoid/The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes where he's absorbed into the internet or an AI and eventually reaches singularity.Dr. Silicon or something like that.
>>155230250Did he trash Miller or did he trash the Darknight aesthetics that everybody did? Sure he doesnt really understood Rorschach and the ressonance to him. He was just afraid of what he created and tried to contain it.
>>155230388I find the colored one has a better casting. The Kurtz ones feel random selected.
>>155231669Something similar to Marvels Leonardo Da Vinci but crossed with urban powers like Jack Hawksmoore from the Authority.
>>155231669Information Age power. He knows just about everything, especially when it comes to the Earth and can be anywhere and everywhere on the planet by being one with the internet. However, his consciousness is also crowdsourced which often sways and jumbles his thoughts and feelings when things lack consensus.
>>155226550There's also another PVP comic that I missed
>>155231764The source kinda already gave him that. So he just had to put some sugar coating on it. A little spin to the left. But i wouldnt say he is the hero but the winner. And he is less a winner but a tragic person who wants to shape the world in his view.
>>155232426Isnt there a full collection in order?
>>155231104>>155232426I find it funny both Kurtz and George decided that Cathy should be Laurie
>>155232452There probably is but these were the only Watchmen/newspaper comic mash-ups Kurtz didSimilarly those Sunday Strip Watchmen pages (and the bonus panel) by Andrew George were the only ones he did IIRC
>>155227726>>155227735I always thought this Mad parody was surprisingly better thought out and appreciative than most Watchmen parodies out there.
>>155232560Mad tried to retell the story while other parodies just try to beef it up.
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>>155231424The line is a paraphrase of something Vishnu says as he’s showing off his abilities, specifically his changing colors and appearances and manifesting more body parts, and the fact that the enemy he’s convincing the prince to fight is already dead. Aligns perfectly with Manhattan’s abilities.
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>>155232780Thanks for the info. I always thought thats just something he came up with to show how his problems with creating the bomb.
>>155232540I thought about the Kurtz ones that if they are collcted.
>>155232193Honestly it's not as randomly selected, the idea is it's a commentary on the state of newspaper comics in 2009, so each of the ones chosen were ones that were still being published in the papers at the timeDagwood was probably chosen because of how old his comic strip is, how it eventually became fixed in place, and that it was still running. It wouldn't work with Walt Wallet or Skeezix from Gasoline Alley because those characters did age. It don't think it would've worked with Barney Google since he was rarely in his comic at this point; Snuffy Smith didn't debut till years after Blondie started, and I don't know if Popeye or Fritzi Ritz or Dick Tracy as Manhattan would've worked
>>155226540Do you have the full series? I've been trying to find it but no such luck.
>>155233088I viewed it more from the Watchmen characters perspective. It doesnt feel like the newspaper characters fit the Watchmen character they are put in.
>>155233391The ones that I posted are pretty much all I'm aware of, including >>155232426I don't know if Kurtz ever followed up on it but I think that was it
>>155226533There's an oversized 11×17 DC W.I.P. floppy of the first issue coming out next month
>>155233899So just a special variant of the orignal? How uncreative. Wasnt there aleady a b&w trade?They dont have any confident and sell the same book but with a new hat!
>>155233969It's the original art at full size, with semi-transparent digital lettering. They previously did a release for Absolute Batman 1 and Supergirl WOT when the movie came out. I think they're actually pretty cool because you can have a copy of the original art at the size it was drawn for $15.
>>155233441Damn. Thank you though. It's like he just erased them all off the internet.
>>155232906>I always thought thats just something he came up with to show how his problems with creating the bomb.I knew of it being tied to Hindu mythology, but the line of thinking of making Manhattan blue as possibly a tie into Vishnu/Krishna was something I hadn't considered before. Going down that to double check the source, I learned that Vishnu experiences time similarly to Manhattan in that all of creation exists before him, the dialog in the Bhagavad Gita, to roughly summarize, is a prince concerned if he should go through with fighting his war when he sees his opponents will include his family, teachers, and other loved ones. He has a conversation with Vishnu who urges him to go through with it, and it culminates with Vishnu showing off his abilities and explaining that the prince's enemies are already doomed from his perspective.While it doesn't cleanly mirror is, I can see parallels between Veidt and his push to sacrifice innocents , and Manhattan as this avatar before him. The difference is that Veidt seeks validation through Manhattan int he end, only to be met with the haunting "It never ends" message.
>>155231764>no anon, youre the coping faggot and a tourist. Moore himself has said he doesnt like it when fans say they like RorschachSorry kid I don't care how many sensationalist interview clips you read from greentexts reposted ComicPoopshoot.com. You just seem autistic and to have a bit of a victim complex, like many autistic weirdoes. Moore is absolutely cynical about Watchmen and that does color how he talks about it, but it's clearly done with a tongue in cheek. He more specifically says he hates when fans say "they" are Rorschach or Rorschach is "my" story. Because they're smelly comic nerds with a relatively luxurious life. Moore is far off Ditko's spectrum politically but has said he does respect his conviction and wanted to approach a Ditkoesque character in such a way respectful to those convictions. After all, he has literally written songs to sing Ditko's praises. https://youtu.be/7tdaw1GFdIU?si=vDhiT6lFQDoigLdDTo Moore, to be Ditkovian is in a sense to suffer and sacrifice one's self for one's ideal. There is pity in this but also respect. >The character was a direct refutation on Steve Ditkos work with The Question, another blank faced, noir inspired detective obsessed with unraveling conspiracy theories. As an aside, this outs you as the tourist. Ditko's question never tackled conspiracies. That was something the JLU version was built around. The wrongdoings in Ditko's worlds were more often than not in the open, especially after his Marvel days/his self publishing when they became more representational, with his heroes more as untouchable moral arbiters. .
>>155226533no wonder alan moore hates this book.
>>155235394Rorschach is a fully realized character. Moore, more than any other character, goes into realizing just what makes someone become like him. Walter had a fucking tragic life. A whoreson who knew only violence from everyone around him including his own mother. Who never had friends so he latches onto to one person who was ever nice to him in his miserable life and is left broken when Dan chooses to kiss girls instead of playing cops and robbers with him to the end. Who ends up snapping when he realizes how his crimefighting more often than not ends up avenging rather than saving. His whole call to action was to prevent something like Kitty Genovese's murder from happening, only to truly fall into the persona when he can't save a little girl from a horrible death. If Moore truly thought Rorschach was contemptible, he would not have him stop Dan from murdering the Knot Top because he didn't want Dan to end up like him. He wouldn't give him choice action moments and make his kills mostly be truly contemptible people(sorry Captain Carnage). He would not let him give Moloch his pain meds. Moore's disgust towards fanboys comparing themselves to Rorschach only shows his attachment to the character, in a roundabout way. Because you aren't Rorschach, almost no one is. Even with how shit your situation in life might be as a man in his 20's, your life isn't as shitty as Walter Kovacs was. And unless you're driven to create great works like Ditko, working out of a tiny apartment creating works for so little pay to the point you're you're taping up your shoes, you're not as noble as Ditko or as driven as Rorschach. Embrace life. Make friends. Create works. Take some pride in your appearance, even if you want to lean into being some quirky weirdo. Maybe even try to talk to girls. You have all these opportunities Rorschach did not have, so don't dare compare yourself to him just because you're awkward.
>>155229603Saturday Morning Watchmen wasn't even that good. It was just a cheap tie in to sell peanut butter.
>>155231764>I also find it really interesting that Moore, the arch leftist, made the hero of watchmen a Chad, billionaire, Nietzschean, aristocrat whos completely disconnected from humanity and sees killing millions of them in a terrorist attack as a calculation to achieve his goals of reaching world peace. And even then, that goal is essentially just a vanity project for his ego.I also don't understand how anyone takes Moore's talk about Rorschach's reception by fanboys as an admission as Veidt being right. Has Moore even had any quotes about Veidt as to be taken anywhere close to that? It seems like Rorschach is the only character he ever addresses in these interviews. It seems really weird to consider Watchmen as a narrative something that would be meant to have a definitive "right" and "wrong" when as a deconstruction it's meant to explore the blurred lines between how messy superheroics would end up being. It came a few years off his work on Miracleman, where the superheroes taking over the world by implicit force, while creating a utopia, is meant to be uncomfortable. I find it really strange to imagine that he would then consider Veidt doing something similar as a positive thing. Especially given so many character's horror and discomfort to his action. The narrative pointing to Veidt's inner conflict through the Black Freighter. Veidt desperately asking Manhattan if he did right only to be told it never ends. The moral conflict lies more in what to do after such a horrific crime for the sake of the future. Veidt's action itself is meant to be horrible. He's meant to be bloodstained, his solution is meant to be considered brutal and uncomfortable.
>>155231764Veidt isn't "the hero" of Watchmen, you absolute goober.Holy fucking shit, Rorschach dick riders really do have zero reading comprehension.
>>155235551>Veidt's action itself is meant to be horrible. He's meant to be bloodstained, his solution is meant to be considered brutal and uncomfortable.It's also heavily implied that it was utterly pointless.
>>155235628The post you are replying to is shitting on Rorschach.
>>155235654No, just saying Moore shits on Rorschach. Which isn't even entirely correct.
>>155235520How dare you.
>>155235411Why?
>>155231669An omniscient schizophrenic superpositioned wherever there is an internet connection. As long as there is something connected to the internet, he is unkillable
>>155231764>He wrote him to be a compelling character, but he also wrote him to be a right wing nutjob and as someone the reader would hate, find ridiculous if not tragic and pathetic, and genuinely see as NOT heroic.He died because he was the only one who dared to tell the world the truth about what Veidt did. How is that hateable?
>>155232751FFFFUUUCCKKK i miss these parodies MAD would do. Absolute kid kino
>>155237630if i considered someting my best work only for it to be parodied 100 times. i would be sad, and id deny that i ever thought it was the best.
>>155238010Moore seems to like the parodies
>>155228481Where'd you read that?
>>155234058I dont see any real difference. The lineart is just b&w. I found the b&w Watchmen. It is called Watchmen Noir.
>>155239162In a /co/ thread. We discussed that Moore knew that, but never got a link to the interview. Just like i read >>155228356.
>>155226533I love this comics, but it ruined the industry. Because everyone tried to redo it at some point.
>>155234944Makes sense. But blue is a good color for someone powerfull and distanced like Manhattan. Light blue is a calm, distance color that really works.
>>155235411>>155238010Moore likes to change things or opinions in retroperspectives. He doesnt want to be wrong, so he likes to change his opinion but presented itmas if he always thought so.Kinda like an angry kid that say he never really liked or wanted it after not getting it.
>>155239663It does. But thats very a typical USA problem, you find that around the world, but especially in the US. Trend chasing and seeing others had success with that and tries to copy that, even they dont understand it or were ever capable of it. And it need to be bigger and better.
>>155239663Don't be a tool. The comics industry is well known by this point to be pretty fucking retarded. They do shit for quick money, drive things into the ground, and constantly chase away their talent.Any exploitably good comic made will be exploited.
>>155235411>>155240492That's dumb, Moore at worse has said he's less fond of Watchmen because of his experience with the IP and dealing with WB/DC, and it's ripple effect on comics and fandom. But as a work he is proud of it.
>>155240896>They do shit for quick money, drive things into the ground, and constantly chase away their talent.Like any big corporation, showbiz, moviebiz or music.
>>155241772It might be british grumpyness.
>>155226533Who's Steve Jobs?
>>155242303The comic industry is almost uniquely fucking stupid. If you have a breakout creator who writes you a best selling book or makes well received music, you try to court that artist with deals to keep them working for you. DC decided they’d rather sneak their plans to keep Watchmen as their own IP instead of trying to work out a deal with with Moore where he could create more works like it for them.
>>155235394I posted a direct quote from Moore directly saying that Rorschach is a "bad example" as in someone not to idolize. For any respect Moore had for Ditkos work in comics, he was very critical of his personal politics and world view and Rorschach was meant as a refutation of that worldview, again which Moore himself was a bad example. I really dont know why you are trying to imply Moore did not make Rorschach out to be a character that is at best looked down upon as delusional, something I already said in my original post. He was never meant to be looked up to by Moore and he cant fathom why people did. >b-but I made him a weirdo who smells bad, has trouble socializing, and reads right wing publications! how can you like him?!This proves that Moore is kind of a dummy and doesnt understand his own writing or the medium hes working in. >>155235551>>155235628No, you cant have the "they are both bad!" in any real sense, this is just a cope. Moore wrote himself into a binary ending where either Veidt is right or Rorschach is right, there is no middle ground, no compromise, and no ambiguity. I get that this too was a sort of take on Ditkos black and white understanding of right and wrong (inb4 "hurr you didnt get it!"), but this doesnt really matter. Either Veidt was right to stage the alien squid attack in order to prevent WW3, or hes was wrong to do so and Rorschach was right to try to expose what he did. Theres literally no other possibilities at that point. You can try to rationalize it any way you want but youre either landing on team Veidt or Rorschach.
