Was he a morally good person?
>>155373606Not really. He preached moral absolutism but constantly made excuses for the actions of people he personally admired.
>>155373606he was morally a moral person.
>>155373606No. He prioritized punishing evil rather than protecting the good.
>>155373606He was a real human bean.
He meant well. He's the product of an awful environment. The narrative is very careful not to let him ever go too far in hurting people that could be sympathetic like Moloch and he shows mercy. He's also very awkward.
>>155373606No he was a crazy cunt who while being crazy and a cunt was the only moral and principled guy in the whole situation. That's why he's compelling. Cuz he was always true to himself. Himself being a paranoid schizo.
>>155373606He was a "psychopath, practically a nazi".And in the end he chose his personal code over world peace.Because he couldn't suck it up and sacrifice a bit of his dignity for the sake of the world.It's selfishness.
>>155374376He believed in truth
>>155373606
>>155374388Which sounds great and all, right up until world peace depends on a lie. And peace is more important than truth.If you'd rather doom the world to war than suffer the indignity of being a liar, then that's selfishness. Principled or not.
>>155374408Hollis is great, though one of my favorite moments of sort of dry humor is Hollis lamenting that his heroic adventures were nothing compared to Doctor Manhattan, but at least he can enjoy his retirement working on cars. But then Manhattan casually says he's making electric cars that would make his job obsolete. Likely giving Hollis a sense of existential dread that he's been rendered obsolete once more. Before Watchmen:Minutemen is probably the only semi-worthwhile mini in that whole ill-advised affair, but I do think Cooke missed something trying to give that era of Watchmen a romanticized, New Frontier style take. It's far more bittersweet and not glamorous at all. Cooke just didn't have the wryness in it that couldn't felt more appropriate.
>>155374388rofl
>introduction in the story is bemoaning the state of society after a rapist/murderer/baby-killer/spook got smudgedHe's a retard who can talk pretty. Like most "philosophers".
>>155373606Who keeps posting this garbage? Do you even read comic books?
>>155374602people who want a response, and like clockwork you replied
>>155374602Please make more of the threads you'd wish to see and learn to ignore things you don't like.
Morally? Not really. He had a contradictory and borderline schizophrenic moral code. However, he definitely had the capacity to be a good person but he had been so broken by the world and had so much trauma it ended up warping him. Still, he was genuinely motivated by a deep desire to do good he just didn't know how to express it in a healthy way.
>>155374408I hate the knottops so much, you have no idea.
>>155374463>Which sounds great and all, right up until world peace depends on a lie. And peace is more important than truth.>If you'd rather doom the world to war than suffer the indignity of being a liar, then that's selfishness. Principled or not.That is so incredibly gay. This is how the government gets away with its bullshit by convincing you of this mindset.
>>155374463A peace built on a lie is only going to fall apart sooner rather than later
>>155374376I think you should try reading the comic first.
>>155373606why cant you make your own opinion on the matter?
>>155373606yes but he had some serious blind spots when it came to american exceptionalism and the comedian
>>155373606Yes, and he was the ONLY morally good person in Watchmen.
>>155373606Yes, he was but he translated that into questionable and bad actions.
>>155373833I disagree. He didnt made excuses but interpreted that differently or knew shit about it.Bombing of Hiroshima was ok, because it ended a war and every person living there was a soldier or possible terrorist. Squid in New York was bad, because there were many civilians that were helpless.Rorschach doesnt knew how many civilians died in Hiroshima, but knew the civilians in New York.
>>155374376>>155374388But he also knew the lie had to be upheld. Its why he told Manhattan to kill him. He would tell everyone because its right, but if he couldn’t tell everyone the world would survive.
>>155373606Alan Moore, the writer, didn't think so and since the writer interpration is the only one that matters I am afraid not.
>>155378633Rorschach was a puppet with his own strings, his personal worldview of what is right.
>>155378643It's not that he didn't think so, he wrote him exactly this way.
>>155373606no man walking around with my a black and white picture of my mom getting fucked on his face can be a good person
>>155373606Objectively, yes. He adhered to a certain code of morality and always acted good within it. Few other acharacters can say the same.>>155374376>muh world peaceImagine missing the whole point of the pirate comic. The peace was an illusion; soon enough people would forget about the alien threat as another crisis came along and relations broke down. If anything exposing Veidt would make him a new common enemy, providing another distraction.
>>155378862Funny, i think similar, but i see my dad fucking your mom.
>>155378114>Rorschach thought squid bad!You didn't understand his death at all
>>155374463Yeah, except that in real life, lies never have positive long-term consequences. It’s because of idiots like you that so many people escape the consequences of their actions btw; you are what’s wrong with this world.
>>155378114>every person living there was a soldier or possible terroristYou’ve gotta be an israeli, no one else is this casually psychotic.
I'm sick of repeating myself turn this into copypasta Listen you retarded motherfuckers: if your impression of Rorschach was an actual practicing moral absolutist that stood by his convictions to the end you have the IQ of a tapir. Rorschach is the trauma-induced protective alter ego of Walter Kovacs, filtering Kovacs' often hypocritical and pathological reactions through a faux absolutist lense to stave off the existential dread that has crushed Kovacs since he learned what happened to that girl. His mask is Rorschach's face and he refuses to take it off or have it taken off because it literally protects his psyche and maintains his delusion.Ozy's plan has the same moral reasoning as the nuke and Rorschach knows it. This kills Rorschach. The man walking into the snow, the man Jon kills, that isn't Rorschach. Rorschach has already died, crushed under the weight of undeniable moral ambiguity. This is why he takes off the mask willingly. This is why he is crying his eyes out. Kovacs' only method of coping with the horrors of the world has failed and he genuinely begs for death.
>>155381010>Lies never have positive outcomes You are a moron that still hasn't moved past the just-world fallacy of early childhood.
>>155379230>The peace was an illusion destined to break downYou've also missed the point. Permanent peace isn't a thing. The book doesn't specify or care whether the peace lasts a week or a hundred years, it asks us to determine how long the peace would need to last to be worth the cost.
>>155378114>He didnt made excuses but interpreted that differently or knew shit about it.That's exactly what making excuses is, though. When it's someone you like you find some way to spin it or ignore aspects of the situation to let them slide while when it's someone you don't like you crucify them.
>>155379230>Objectively, yes. He adhered to a certain code of morality and always acted good within it.So did Ozy, that's kind of the point. Both of them had their moral codes they absolutely believed in that they imposed on the world through force.> The peace was an illusion; soon enough people would forget about the alien threat as another crisis came along and relations broke down.Yes, and Manhattan basically tells Ozy as much when Ozy desperately asks if he did the right thing "in the end". But that wasn't Rorshach's objection to what happened. Even if the plan was perfect and worked exactly as intended he opposed it. The whole point is the interplay between this view and Ozy's ideals as >>155381135 notes.
Fuck no.
>>155373606No, Rorshach is crazy and a staunchly unlikable person in the original story, but the sticking point is that the conditions that exacerbated his violent tendencies and scorched-earth asexual nihilist perception of the world were legitimately even more despicable than he is, and a lot of guys who have been victims of similar circumstances without Rorshach's psychological compulsion towards vengeful murder tend to feel for him because of it. It's very easy to imagine a version of Rorshach, being this campy subversionist 20th-century detective guy with a period-appropriate and thematically-relevant inkblot mask, who is very likable and really embodies the idiosyncratic spirit of his fans.
>>155378862Actually choked on my drink reading that. Thanks, anon.
He has his moments of goodness like stopping Dan from beating the shit out of that guy at the bar and his final moments where he tries to get the truth about Veidt out but he's generally a pretty shitty person. The ending was less that Rorschach was the best of the Watchmen but moreso that everyone else compromised their morality
>>155376417That seething Twitter post is retarded, you're not meant to think that Manhattan or Veidt are heroic figures.
>>155373606He's complicated, like most of the characters in Watchmen. I think that him wanting to be a good person (despite clearly not being all there mentally) speaks to his character.>was abused as a child>became a vigilante because he heard about a young woman getting raped and no one doing anything to help her>eventually snapped after attempting to find a kidnapped girl, learning she'd been murdered and fed to a pedophile's dogs>is the only one who cares about what happened to The Comedian (even if out of a sense of self-preservation, if the killer is indeed targeting masks)>preaches a strict moral code, but breaks it to show mercy to his landlady and to Moloch after he learns how they're struggling>is the only one who still wants to expose Adrian after learning the truth>forces Manhattan to kill him rather than willingly allow Adrian to get away with itHe's got a lot of layers and demonstrates that even those with dogmatic ideals possess the ability to change. He shows misogynistic tendencies, but goes out of his way to help women in trouble. He preaches no mercy towards criminals, but takes pity on those who are struggling. He praised Truman for bombing Japan to end WW2, but is horrified when he sees Adrian do basically the same thing to end the Cold War.People nowadays insist Rorschach is this one-note parody meant to be hated and derided because Moore wanted to stick it to conservatives and objectivists and Batman fanboys, but I think he wrote Rorschach with a lot of empathy. You don't make a character that complex by complete accident.
>>155373833Is it morally wrong to not stay true to one's stated moral code when said moral code is not necessarily morally good?
>>155374463>Nothing ever ends, Adrian.
>>155383684>everyone else compromised their moralityThey are utterly defeated at the end, physically and mentally. Rorschach is too hardassed to admit defeat.
>>155381077I am not smart to understand watchmen and see Rorschach as an unintelligent and can't hold down a job as a functioning adult living on the street needing a caregiver. The comedian is an idiot but he can afford to live a life of luxury and die alone when he gets too old. Ozy is just a conman using the plan to sell cheap real estate
>>155381256You are right, but i feel like when you see it differently, you dont find excuses, it is how you see the world.
>>155378114I feel like anyone who defends the nuking of Japan has to be a brainwashed megakikeAmericans need to be otherwise their country essentially annilated hundreds of thousand civilians. Making them the ultimate villains of WW2. The reality of America is that they haven't fought a single war where they weren't just brutalising civilians. Vietnam, WW2, all the wars in the middle east. They weren't fighting soldiers, they were just mowing down peasants and kids
>>155374540I don't think Cooke would go for it anyway.
>>155373606Great character, though.
>>155373606He tried. That's the best anyone can hope for.
>>155385813DON’T START NONEWON’T BE NONE, JUNICHIRO!
