manga is often black and white and quite successful.do you think black and white western comics can find success nowadays?
>>155608478I don't know why, but my brain immediately gives up when I read a black-and-white western comic, while manga is completely fine to me.There's something about the pacing, compositions and little details (or omission thereof) that feels more refined in manga like Berserk, Dungeon Meshi or whatever. The way text is spread out between panels feels way more easy to digest while many western artists just make fucking walls of text like in OPs pic, or the overly wordy exposition spewed by marvel characters.
>>155608961same, i find black and white western comics a lot harder to read.it helps that mangas generally have multiple tones instead of just plain black and white
>>155608961This. Lots of western authors understand that a panel must be readable over being detailed, but a lot more just go full retarded and try to make it look impressive, turning it into an eyesore instead. They also use font sizes for ants to compensate for how unreadable the page is.Double it for color comics.
>>155609122Good point, the addition of even one shade of gray does a lot to balance the heavy contrasts.
>>155608478Apparently not.Too many retards: >>155608961>>155609122>>155609124
>>155609609Please show us the black and white western comics you consume to prove your superiority.
>>155609728My superiority is proven by the fact that I can read both.
>>155609989That's not enough, any anon could easily construct a>so you can eat shit lmaopost out of that. I need to be shown a western black-and-white comic that's worth reading in these modern times.
>>155609728nta, but pic rel
>>155610020>modernThat's a tough one.Everything's in color now.
>>155608478I don't know, but I like them.
>>155608478>and cartoonsWhat
>>155612613old stuff, like betty boop and mickey mouse
>>155611059>Everything's in color now.why do western comics tend towards being in colour anyway? isn't it cheaper just to print in black and white? saves on hiring people to do the colouring step too
>>155608478Man, It's entirely dependent on the artist. I know that's the most obvious statement you can make, but colors do make average art more tolerable. I own a couple volumes of creepy magazine and Xenozoic, all B&W and I actually think color would detract from the artwork big time and make it way too busy. Things like the OP, I know people like that kind of cutesy art style, but I don't think it's and example of how good B&W can look.
>>155608478Black and white comics have been successful. I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other honestly. I don't think being black and white is what makes Manga more popular
>>155613747I know it's unfair to the average artist to hold up Frank Frazetta as a gold standard, but I'm just saying If you know how to use extreme contrast well, then adding color would only hurt the mood
>>155613747>>155613888Hard to find a high quality Mark Schultz example but here's where It has plenty of detail but is still perfectly readable, and I think adding color would only add a layer of detail without improving the artwork
>>155613888>>155614099Kino
I like the Peanuts comics
>>155610596It's in color now.
>>155609728Not him, but off the top of my head, two of the most acclaimed indie comics out there are black and white. Love & Rockets and Stray Bullets, both have very clean, simple artstyles that work really well without color.
>>155616263I like Xaime's art.
>another east vs west thread
>>155615306Strip chads know.
>>155617484Strips are for fags and women.
>>155618532u should strip for me
>>155608961Screen tones help legibility a lot too. It’s not quite grey which can make things look too washed out, screen tone being black dots spaced out helps keep things delineated
>>155615306meta
i wouldn't mind cheap black and white comic books making a comeback
>>155613352retarded westerners won't read anything black and white.T. Had to color my webcomic and I'm still mad.
>>155608478I love how Tintin's doggo hasn't changed one bit, just the perfect design on the very first try!
>>155617484
>>155608961>>155609728Depends on the comic
>>155624282Clarrisa is also great
>>155624316
>>155608478>you think black and white western comics can find success nowadays?It could work if the comic is good. But pretty much all of them are in color.
>>155624316>>155624330Shit art.
>>155624799
>>155608478Yeah sure no problem.Only retards can't appreciate it
why are black and white animatics (e.g pretty please i dont want to be a magical girl) more successful than black and white comics?
>>155626468People who watch this are more mentally stunted than people who read capeshit.
>>155608478The reason why color became more prioritized is honestly partly TMNT's faultThe black and white explosion that came afterwards created a glut of low quality comics flooding the indie scene that made LCS owners hesitant on even stocking that stuffWe've long since recovered with works like The Walking Dead and Scott Pilgrim finding success
>155624799
>>155608478>do you think black and white western comics can find success nowadays?
>>155613352>isn't it cheaper just to print in black and white?That reminds me, I should start another comic soon. Print on Demand makes it really easy to put your comic books in physical form, and if I pick for black and white interior, then my comic books will be cheaper!
Western comics refuse to try black and white because boomers and GenXers refuse to touch it and capeshit always chases that dwindling audience.Millennials and zoomers prefer manga over capeshit. They obviously have no issue with BW so long as the comic is good.
>>155608478black and white tintin looks better as it gets older
>>155629206How come?
>>155631115because Herge gits gudit's a lot less messier than Tintin in Soviets thats for sure
Do you know what's sad? It's harder to spot AI slop if it's in black and white.in image attached, at least there's the weird looking letters, but many people wouldn't have gotten the "this is ai" feeling that coloured pictures have
>>155631278idk Anon, I suck at spoting AI but this one stood out like a sore thumb to me.All the lines are too even and the expression too bland.
>>155631290>All the lines are too evenimage before was found by searching ai colouring book, so it'd look cleantho i'm usually a lot more shit at spotting ai than other people
>>155631346not what I mean. The linework is TOO even, there's no mark of where thee artist started drawing the line or where they finished it, there's no texture to it and all the mistakes are ones that a computer would make. A human makes mistakes because of being tired, for example, but we don't forget that leaves have mass, a machine can repeat the look of what it's been told a leaf is, but it cannot conceive how or WHY humans draw them a certain way.
>>155618532Stfu
>>155631434>The linework is TOO even, there's no mark of where thee artist started drawing the line or where they finished it,That can just be a sign of an artist deciding not to use pen pressure while illustrating digitally
>>155631454anon, do you seriously not see the difference in lineweight between the examples, and the intention on the pose on the lame Disney book? even for all its blandness, is better than the AI fairy.>>155631482why would a human make that choice for a coloring book? it takes away from the image.
>>155631495>why would a human make that choice for a coloring book? it takes away from the image.Sometimes you just want to have more control over line width
>>155631550jesus that image is ass. The details are all placed in the wrong objects.also you can just use vectors for that, tho it would make the thing look ass without proper line weight.
Commando is having it’s 6000th issue soon so clearly it can work for a niche audience.
>>155631691>6000thholy shit
>>155632279where do you people even find beautiful obscure shit like this? are you all a bunch of uncs remembering stuff from your childhood, or is there a certain site that has a whole lot of this stuff?
>>155632279Who want to count how many faces they notice in this image?
>>155632339NTA, but the answer is yes (at least in my case) and sometimes people are kind enough to post comics like this on /co/ from time to time. The good news is some people still make comics like these you just have to be lucky enough to find them, sometimes at your LCS or a convention.
>>155632339I am an unc but for me its all "recent" older stuff. Last six years of reading scans of comics I'd heard about before or discovered while reading those comics or looking up artists.Anthologies like Heavy Metal and 2000AD are a good place to start because you get a shotgun blast of multiple artists at once, and can always skip the features that don't gel with you.Agorn is from pretty early on in Heavy Metal IIRC, then you know the artist Druillet, then you can image search Druillet black and white art.Last note I can think of is that there's also been a semi-recent trend of b+w reprints of just the linework+inks+text of different artists, usually named something like Artist's Editions. "Conquest!" from earlier in the thread is an example. Those are a great source too.
RIP
>>155632576>>155632586thank you, wise old uncs
>>155632339And sometimes its just like this anon >>155632576 said, you can just stumble onto this stuff from storytimes on /co/ or even threads like these.I didn't know shit about Usagi Yojimbo other than the title, but I ended up reading through the whole thing multiple times because of the yearly thread here.
>>155632339mostly found here, plus some from Heavy Metal and French antholgies. I liked most of these:A Contract with God and Other Tenement StoriesAnya's Ghost (2011)Blast Manu Larcenet - except the blast pagesBrodeck's Report by Philippe Claudel, Manu Larcenet (adaptation) - just after, and flashbacks to, the war: https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/150029140/ and https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/150138747/Burne Out by VivesCanardo by SokalCerebusCinema Panopticum by Thomas OttCorto MalteseCybersixdiggerDylan Dog From HellHey, Wait... by JasonI Kill GiantsIntroducing Kafka by CrumbIon MudJerusalem Chronicles from the Holy City by Guy DelisleRob Davis trilogy: The Motherless Oven, The Can Opener's Daughter and The Book of ForksLa décharge mentale by Bastien VivesLastmanMausNeon Lit - Paul Austers City of GlassOctopus Pie, early pagesPolina by VivesPyongyang A Journey in North Korea Guy Delisle 2004QuinosandcastleSin City - That Yellow Bastard - there's bit of yellow in placesThe Book of Genesis by Robert CrumbThe Giant - Orson Welles - black, white and yellowThe Lighthouse by Paco RocaThe MarquisThe Ogre Gods - petitThe Obscure Cities 03 The TowerChaboute's Tout Seul (Alone) 2008 - boat delivers weekly supplies to an automated lighthouse; a story of solitude and imagination.Chaboute's Plus loin qu'ailleurs 2025 - mostly black and whiteChaboute's Moby Dick part 1 2018 https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/103125328/ part 2 https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/103149654Transperceneige - SnowpiercerUsagi Yojimbo
>>155608961They just don't know how to do black and white in the west.
>>155632613>>155632339>uncs Why do zoomers love using nigger speak so much?
>>155632613No problem youngster
>>155633662Sure they do.
>>155629206I didn't even realize this comic was in black and white, I grew up with the color edition.
>>155633658>Octopus Pie, early pagesI feel like majority of the comic was black and white, Gran didn't start having regular color pages until the last eight chapters. I loved the switch to color but I think I have a nostalgia for the black and white pages. I do think that since she made the jump from comics to games, it's likely she just sticks to black and white since its easier than hiring a regular colorist for the comics.
>>155635669Crazy.
>>155632339Yeah, I'm an old nig, but I just happen to have a fascination with old American artists which leads me down the occasional rabbit hole
I;ve always liked the Alice in Wonderland illustrations by John Tenniel
>>155608478While not purely a comic or cartoon since they have a lot of text alongside them, children's books like Diary of A Wimpy Kid have been really popular
>>155626985>The reason why color became more prioritized is honestly partly TMNT's fault>The black and white explosion that came afterwards created a glut of low quality comics flooding the indie scene that made LCS owners hesitant on even stocking that stuffit's nice when you learn new stuff on /co/i didn't know that event happened
>>155640991There are only newfags left here wtf
>>155642090well yea, not all of us were alive in the 80s.that's nearly 50 years ago
>>155642116I'm not even 30 yet but I knew that shit. Do you get all your comics history from /co/?
>>155643156no, some of us are casuals and don't spend that much time looking at comics and cartoons. gee, way to make someone learning someone new a negative. Like, do you even want other people to learn more about this stuff or just bemoan that they're new?
>>155643236>someone learning someone*someone learning something
lol remember when Disney made Paperman and then never made anything like it again?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrqSF2OOz_M
>>155643236Unfortunately that’s just the way of the things, the good thing about 4chan is that no-one can hold stuff against you unless you literally make a name for yourself.
This is from 1997, but it portrays an older Franco-Belgian artist grappling with what made 80s and 90s manga so successful.
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>>155643484haha thanks for posting this.It's actually really interesting to see Captain Haddock do the manga-jutsu after knowing after he looks like when he fights in Tintin
>>155631278>Do you know what's sad? It's harder to spot AI slop if it's in black and white.I suppose but your example is pretty bad once one zooms into the details. Not saying you are wrong it's just not pic related.
>>155608478No.I'm guessing comic publishers are looking for a child audience and children want the impression what they're reading is the coolest thing ever.It doesn't help that your example is a bunch of words and then the laziest art possible that two seconds of colouring would make 10x better.>>155608961I would recommend the back catalogue of 2000ad to you but I'm not sure why you're in /co/ if you prefer /a/. I tried looking up your mentioned Berserk and Delicious(?) Dungeon and whilst they sometimes get a good panel density (that is hard for me to read because Japan has a literally backwards language), the only uploaded pages are just characters... talking to one another... whilst standing around... just like marvel/DC... except the poses are the same in every panel sometimes even from the same perspective... and when translated the cooking dungeon seems to be for actual children but in a useless way that doesn't even teach them about food, "Remember kids, don't get a salt deficiency! That's really important for you to know in the modern world!">>155613888>If you know how to use extreme contrast well, then adding color would only hurt the moodIt really does. You basically have to get to it before the "shading" is added and then find someone equally or more talented, and then get a good printer, aka not muddy or monotone pigment, just to get back up to the same level as a skilled contrast.>>155631278AI is actually very hard to spot nowadays in general when it's not the first pass slop. Imagine if current publishers used it everywhere and paid someone to touch it up, aka erase the face, hands, feet and text, redraw them, okay now it's a certified human artpiece and no-one will know.I have a friend who's adamant he can tell and he constantly calls out pieces that aren't. I let it slide because I don't like AI either and it doesn't make a difference if I told him it's real when there are no actual tells on display, other than hurting our friendship.
>>155643469Here's the orginal French from Les Aventures De Jérôme Moucherot, Tome 2 Sus à L'imprévu! by François Boucq.
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