More Batman.

>>155650328
Get rid of all existing ongoings and start over. New characters, new worlds. No shared universes. Create stories that will eventually end. Some stories will function as a series of one-shots, some will be longer narratives. Elseworlds of previous characters still allowed, so Batfags and etc. can get their dose. Pump money and talent into this shit.

Stop events. Stop them.

THEY TAKE AWAY FROM STORIES. nobody can care about a book.

Make everyone stop being retarded

>>155650426
No can do.

>>155650328
I think it's weird that, given the enduring popularity of the Teen Titans cartoon, there isn't an all ages series about Robin and the Titans.
Not low-effort fart humor like TTGo, but an evergreen Titans book. And it needs to be something normal boys would actually want to read, so Beast Boy loves Raven doesn't count.

>>155650328
I never had trouble getting into comics.

>>155650328
Reboot

i don't think there's anything that can be done to undo this clusterfuck just recommend reading lists
maybe just commit to the recent reboots and have them fucking end and move on to other heroes instead of infinitely rehashing the same thing for literal decades
>>155652509
reboot cancer is what makes comics hard to follow, how many fucking batman #1 comics are there?
sick of the "all fresh brand new" bullshit that keeps rehashing itself over and over just commit to a fucking timeline and end the story

>>155650328
Don't regress developments every run or two and actually commit to shit, how many fakeout deaths with that old hoe May are we on right now?

Publish every mainline marvel comic in one or two monthly volumes similar to 2000AD

>>155650328
Throw DC and Marvel comics into the trash bin.

>>155652508
Having to look up reading guides and switching titles should be unnecessary.

Marvel should actually print their comics, so people can read them

>>155650328
Create cheap anthologies with the most iconic mythological versions of the characters with the status quo that is proven to be popular.

Like spiderman married, early thirties, making an okay living but not rich..yet and doing his thing in the city. Not a beta bitch who's constantly shit on either.
Xmen are the 90's version with cleaned up histories for everyone. Wolverine's current shit marvel origin is retconned and he's back to the doesn't know his history and memory implants origin.
Etc etc
Will liberally pick and choose storylines from the best to create a new universe. No over the top bullshit no rocking the boat to get a rise out of the besotted comic degenerates.
It's for normies and entertaining them comes first and foremost. Even if you do things that seem more cliche or telegraphed. It works.

>>155650328
Actually give the stories an ending.

Like always /co/ just posts their own pet peeve and butthurt ideas about the industry and shows zero understanding how publishing works, how the marker works and how their ideas would not draw in more readers

>>155655138
Also like always, you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to add.

>>155650328
Capeshit doesn't need to be "accessible to a larger audience".

Make comics for straight while males, the only demographic that matters. Have one or two books for straight black males. Ignore girls and women at all costs.

Do that and you will win.

>>155652476
They have made Teen Titans Go comics. But guess what, they don’t sell many copies. And what is stopping parents buying collections of older stuff? Nothing

>>155655270
First and foremost you need a fundamental shift in culture that encourages and makes reading cool for people. People read less and less as a hobby.

Another thing is making comics cool to people and that requires getting famous online people to actively engage and promote comics. You need popular podcasts talk about comics, not comic book movies, but comics. And that’s going to require years of persistent commitment and building an audience from the ground up.

Once all that’s fixed, you can start experimenting at micro level, which is what all the people here bitch and whine about every day because they can’t see beyond their own pet peeves and annoyances. Protip: You are not an average person if you are complaining about comics online. You throwing tantrums about crossovers or not having single issue stories or no endings isn’t what keeps people from reading comics. Today it’s more just mainstream culture not being interested in reading comics and the price.

>>155650328
>How would you make DC/Marvel more accessible to a larger audience?
Nuke Commiefornia.

>>155650328
You cant, would need to kill off everything and I mean every single thing that isnt main continuity so someone doesnt end up reading a comic that doesnt matter then drop at least manga dense amount of pages in one issue with things actually happening. Thats just never gonna happen so it will always be confusing to most

>>155655789
>so someone doesnt end up reading a comic that doesnt matter
You would've said that the multiverse refugees need to go as well if this was your intention.

>>155653977
When I was getting in as a teen 10 years ago the internet made it extremely easy. And you could also ask your friends or other comic shop goers for recommendations.
Despite that, I think the Absolute line is doing a decent job getting new fans. I have two friends who hopped into comics because of Absolute.

>>155654560
>the most iconic mythological versions of the characters with the status quo that is proven to be popular
>spiderman married, early thirties, making an okay living but not rich..yet and doing his thing in the city
Are you actually retarded?

>>155656381
But are they going to read anything else once the line eventually ends.

>>155656409
He’s on this board, isn’t he?

>>155655704
New York and Portland are the real problems.

>>155657799
Explain why they let Commiefornia hoard both of the IPs then.

>>155650328
Unfuck distribution. As it is, comic books can only be bought in dedicated stores that are few and far between, while manga volumes are in every normie book shop these days. There's just no opportunities to get the damned things for most potential readers.
In addition, the comic book format itself has become dated. The bang-for-buck ratio is a total mess, too few pages for the modern price range. This is related to the above distribution issue, where it used to be that comics were considered semi-disposable and could be found stocked in any grocery shop, ready for any kid to pick one out with pocket change.

>>155658719
>As it is, comic books can only be bought in dedicated stores that are few and far between

How is it possible for Luddites to post here?

>>155650328
I get why you feel like limiting continuity issues for self contained stories as they are harder to get into, but at the same time face reality people read this comics online then go and buy 60 numbers, is a better sell overall, but I do agree comics need a degree of self contained

>>155650328
New 52 seemed like a good attempt. A setting wide reboot and a bunch of characters getting their own clear stories with a begining. I'd just do that again but without the lame event slop. Or maybe the event slop is solely contained as a Justice League/Avengers run.

Also total (((legacy))) hero death on the Marvel side.

>>155656416
One friend has already branched into older DC stuff. Omega Man, Suicide Squad, Peacemaker. He’s also reading some current runs like Firestorm and Deadman. My other buddy just started Absolute Batman last week, so we’ll see lol

>>155656409
No one likes current spiderman. Absolutely no one.
Comic shops buying the comics out of obligation and degenerate comic collectors buying them out of habit/addiction isn't working.

>>155650328
>How would you make DC/Marvel more accessible to a larger audience?
what if the bat family was bigger and more diverse

>>155650328
Focus on making teasers on YouTube to lure on the kiddies

>>155650328
>How would you make DC/Marvel more accessible to a larger audience?
I wouldn't, I would lock them up in a little box so only I can enjoy them.

>>155660307
You’re hired!

>>155650328
Stop making every character gay/“””bi”””

>>155650328
Stop pushing so many legacy characters. DC especially keeps replacing iconic characters with characters that no one gives a shit about.

>>155650328
For Marvel, stop making Peter Parker a cuck loser and stop making Mary Jane a whore.

For DC, give Batman back his company, mansion, money, and Alfred. No more Vandal Savage. Stop creating multiple Jokers (I can’t believe I have to even say this). Stop making more Bat-Family members.

>>155650328
1$ per issue
more ADS per issue
drop paper quality
returnables
burn every single comicbook store in USA.
Target, walmart, lidl, Aldi and bestbuy, also newsstands.

>>155650328
just reboot the whole marvel universe at this point i stopped giving a shit about 616 long ago.

>>155658502
Hollywood

>>155656381
That just proves it’s the convoluted continuities that keep people off of comics

>>155657799
>>155658502
You lost

>>155662332
New York and Portland invented Hollywood?

>>155662423
Enjoy your civil wars.

>>155650328
>more accessible
It's called phasing out traditional comics and replacing them with webcomics, both Marvel and DC are testing the waters and intend to slowly go all in with it. Absolute Batman selling so well is actually making both DC and Marvel reconsider slightly.

Stop doing the 'putting all the toys back in the toybox' shit

>>155661855
>also newsstands
lmao.
Also newstand style sales can't do $1 per issue. No profit in that. Newstands are what pushed comics to bump up prices back in the 70's and if you pick up any magazine on a rack now the prices have ballooned up to $10-15+. Because that's the only way the margins are worth it to retailers.

Copy whatever the manga industry is doing. It seems to work fairly well.

Anthologies are the right idea, but you need to go digital. Have first releases on a digital service with no rules on page count and make it almost like a playlist rather than trying to meet a page count. Then just release the physical copies to bookstores for each series. You could even use the digital format to see which character readers are into.

>>155660130
>Comic shops buying the comics out of obligation

Holy cope

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>>155664883
>Copy whatever the manga industry is doing. It seems to work fairly well.
That's what DC's doing right now and it's working wonders for them.

>>155666748
I’m losing faith in humanity when all you needed to sell comics was to shrink them to the size of manga volumes

>>155666779
It's also the $10 price tag to go with it. Shockingly, when you offer things at a bargain price, people will buy it.

>>155666794
It’s easy for manga to set low prices when all the production costs have already been covered by the original publishing in Japan and all you really need to do overseas is make sure you still generate profit after translation and printing.

>>155650328
>How would you make DC/Marvel more accessible to a larger audience?
Do what Japan does and pump out anime adaptations to advertise their manga. Real comic accurate cartoons adapting books chronologically.

I wonder which company will end floppies first. Once they do, I see the other following suit shortly after.

>>155666972
>Real comic accurate cartoons adapting books chronologically.

You do realise what a clusterfuck this is, right? You really want to take 50 years before you start adapting any of the actual stuff that people are interested in? You want Superman not be able to fly, there are no classic villains, etc.?

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>>155667005
>I wonder which company will end floppies first. Once they do, I see the other following suit shortly after.
I could see DC dropping them first and going purely into volumes like they already do in the collected editions. They already have the infrastructure to do it, whereas it would be a struggle for Marvel since they made the book market an afterthought.

>>155667327
I think you’re right. DC has been taking a lot of calculated risks lately and most of them have paid off.

>>155666748
DC Finests seem to be doing well too. Marvel really just needs to commit better to it's epic line and KEEP SHIT IN PRINT! People will buy it if it's available. Someone can say I want to read Thor and everyone else can point to an Epic. Compacts are nice but they collect stories not runs.

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>>155650328
Start targeting specific demographic groups instead of trying to appeal to everyone at once. For instance, make Hal Jordan the lead in a new Green Lantern run and infuse it with a distinctly right-wing ideology: no girlbosses, no woke stuff, hot space babes in every issue (bring back Arisia), and so on. On the other hand, take Harley Quinn and make her new run as gay as possible to target the leftists.

>>155650328
Literally just copy manga. Provide a monthly service that gives you access to all comics, with the latest issues viewable for free. Host one shot competitions and contract winners do their own runs, whether it be original or pre existing characters. In fact today a new opportunity presented itself, Malfoid. Literally just do that as a Harry Potter romance AU.

Absolute also seems like it’s halfway there. Fresh iterations of characters with no continuity bullshit. Although I can’t speak on its current status. I’m only familiar with it at face value and read the first few issues of Absolute WW.

>>155668969
Just because something is available doesn’t guarantee it sells. You’d be losing money in housing costs alone by insisting every comic from the past 50+ years should never go out of print

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>>155650328
>>155650381
>>155650416
>>155652686
>>155654560
>>155655000
>>155658853
>>155661606
>>155669190
While these would all be come changes. You're going about them the wrong way.
You can't run a comic company from the top down. That worked 50 years ago, it doesn't work today, and it's why comics are failing.
It's like when a communist wants to fix their country, and all their solutions involve the state having total control and ordering everyone else what to do.

The editorial department has no ability to create comics of the standard demanded today, they're totally out of their league. No amount of sitting around a boardroom deciding what to do about Spider-Man's marriage is ever going to lead to a good comic.
Imagine you were Bloomsbury publishers and it's 1996. How many boardroom meetings would it take for you to be able to write Harry Potter? Nobody in that boardroom has Harry Potter in their head, only JK Rowling has that. Even if you hired JK Rowling as a writer, how many directions would you have to give her to create Harry Potter? You could never do it. It'd be like playing battleships
>Editor: "okay I think we should have this wizard main character be a 40 year old female"
>Rowling: "Uhh I don't think that's quite the right direction.."
>Editor: "My job is to come up with ideas, it's your job to write them!"
Even if you do let the writers into the boardroom, you're still playing this pointless game of battleships with them.

A far better approach is to just totally flip the publishing model upside down, and instead of editorial coming up with ideas, it's the writers themselves, and the editors simply accept or reject them, ideally based on public popularity metrics.
An editor may be able to see a good idea when it hits them in the face, but they've got no ability to make it themselves, and attempting to micromanage the creative process ruins everything.

>>155669718
welcome changes*

The standards for comics today are really high.
They're so high that the chances of you hiring some random schmuck off the street and having them write a story that's any good is one in a million.
You need to find the best of the best, and at that level, they only want to write their own thing.
You can't hire these people to write your ideas, even if your ideas are good, they don't want anything todo with them. All you can do is publish their ideas. Those ideas will make millions, and you can take a share of that profit.
It's not that they're egotistical and that they're only willing to write their own story. Rather, their own story is the only thing they can write. They understand it, live it, breathe it. It's their very heart and soul. It's why it's both so good, and why it's the only thing they can write.
That is the standard today, readers will only accept the very best, and anything less than that is dogshit.
If you want the very best, you need to start fishing for those unicorns in the wild, and stop trying in vain to make them yourself, because you can't.

>>155669550
>Provide a monthly service that gives you access to all comics

Marvel Unlimited is already a thing

>with the latest issues viewable for free.

And how are you going to recoup your production costs if you’re offering the thing that drives most sales always for free? You can only get away with that with translated manga when you’ve spent couple of decades establishing a fairly steady market for yourself, because your entire fucking business model is built around getting people to buy your reprint collections, which is fine because the actual cost of producing of new material has already been paid in Japan through selling anthology titles you publish every week/month.

>Host one shot competitions and contract winners do their own runs, whether it be original or pre existing characters.

Why would this make comics sell more?

>>155669745
>TL;DR
Stop telling the writers what to do. Instead, start listening to their own ideas, because they're the ones with the real creative vision. If editors could write, they wouldn't be editors.

I would make them less accessable.

>>155669758
So make Jon Kent trans. And Wonder Woman gets raped. And Jesus Christ saves Ghost Rider’s soul. Etc.

>>155669817
It goes without saying that if it doesn't sell, you fire them. And then you hire the next guy. And you repeat this cycle until you find your unicorn. This isn't even exclusive to the publishing industry, this is business 101.

>>155669852
But the damage is already done unless you get rid of continuity. Otherwise, one bad writer can screw things up for the next guy.

>>155669852
So you advocate for constant retcons and continuity issues if something doesn’t sell

>>155666779
It's sad because the standard comic book size format is like the perfect reading size, I even like manga in the size like how they were printed before Tokyopop changed the game.

We don't, you can't figure it that's your problem.

>>155669882
>>155669896
You miss a key part of my point.
They'll write their own ideas. They're not going to participate in the continuity at all.

>>155650328
That’s not a bad idea desu

>>155669925
So completely dilute the brand with endless different versions, gotcha

>>155670067
the brand is worthless, nobody cares about it

Literally just stop doing events and limit crossovers
>b-but it's hard to get into it
It's literally never been easier. Either start from now and catch up based on context or go read back issues online. Starting from the start has never been easier than it is now. People get really prissy about needing to know everything but refuse to actually go and read it

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>>155669746
>Marvel Unlimited is already a thing
Good. Where’s DCs version?
>And how are you going to recoup your production costs
Comics, like manga, aren’t a serious source of revenue. They’re simply a breeding ground for franchises. Movies, television, merchandising, franchising are where it’s all at. You already know this though.
>Why would this make comics sell more?
It’s more personalized, creator focused, and self contained. There’s little to no internal politics, no revolving door of creatives raping a stale continuity. I would read the fuck out of pic rel.

>>155670179
>Where’s DCs version?
DC Universe

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What ever happened to the phrase “sex sells”? Seriously, and I’m not racist, but if these American companies stopped trying to cater to the black minority with flimsy liberal justice stories and made gooner products like the Japanese and Chinese (e.g. Marvel Rivals) they would swim in boatloads of cash. That is ignoring the weird censorship stuff going on with payment processors but that’s an entirely different conversation we won’t go into.

>>155670179
>No, you don’t understand. My entire business model is all about not turning profit and just hoping that maybe an adaptation makes money later!

>>155670221
>What if we just made porn!?

>>155667327
Absolute is exactly why DC won't abandon floppies, they make a shit ton of variant covers and Absolute Batman is carried by monthly hype.there's no reason for them to limit the releases of it to biannual releases. In fact that space between releases is what killed the Earth One OGN hype.

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>>155650328
Fire all the bad writers, artists, and editors.
Hire good writers, artists, and editors.

>>155670733
Porn sells more at this point, so why not

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>>155669718

>>155671547
People really don’t understand how much time and work a full graphic novel takes yet they all think that you should be able to pop them out like nothing because muh manga volumes. People have no grasp of how anything works

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>>155666779
>>155666934
manga prices are even lower in Japan though.
Before you even get to the whole "reboot" and "fresh start" stuff, you need to fundamentally change the whole format.
You need more pages, less panels per page. Simple as that.
I think the effort a comic artists puts into 1 page can easily be made into 3 manga style pages if you understand how to balance the work load. A lot of manga has detailed establishing pages so that you can have fight scenes with relative minimal details. yo almost never see panels of a limb in motion or a closeup of the lower half of a face in comics, but it goes a long way in manga.

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>>155672397
There's something else going on here that's more subtle but important.
Look at the panelling.
At a surface glance you might say that the panelling on the left is better, because it's more artistically creative. But it's not better, it's worse. Panelling is a tool for communication, not graphic design. The size and shape of the panel dictates the pacing, mood, and clarity of each panel, whether you intend it to or not. To create beautiful graphic design in comic panelling is as meaningless as creating beautiful graphic design in music notation, and more often than not just harms the readability of the comic.

To be a comic artist is to also be a story teller. You're not just an illustrator, you are the cameraman, editor, and actors all in one. The writer can tell you that this is a sad scene, but it's up to you to actually bring that emotion to life.
A comic artist that doesn't think like this is an amateur. He may be a good illustrator, but he is a lousy comic artist.
Comic pages like pic related are just masturbation. You haven't delivered an immersive storytelling experience, you've just distracted from the story with your need to flex your artistic skills. It's not impressive, it's not literally the coolest shit ever, it's the work of someone who thinks comics are just pretty pictures and not stories and world to fall in love with.

>>155655000
The problem with western Superhero stories and an ending is that "Fight crime for great justice" doesn't have an ending other than the hero dying at some point. It's not like a Japanese series where they just want to complete one goal or fight one war against one evil group and then go back to their salaryman lives. Batman has no ending or goal beyond punch criminals till he can't anymore and world peace is never going to be totally achieved.

>>155664883
Impossible. That kind of work ethic and distribution system doesn't exist in the US

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>>155672638
>You haven't delivered an immersive storytelling experience, you've just distracted from the story with your need to flex your artistic skills. It's not impressive, it's not literally the coolest shit ever, it's the work of someone who thinks comics are just pretty pictures and not stories and world to fall in love with.
This is just a difference of opinion.
Comic artists do pages like that /because/ that was considered innovative storytelling.
Manga just generally considers panels as more a vehicle to deliver storytelling while comics like that consider the panels themselves part of the narrative itself.
I wouldn't say either is better or worse on a whole but I would agree manga is more digestible to most.

>>155672963
the writers are Euros half the time and the artists are all from either European or latin american countries these days.

>>155673023
Fair but it doesn't exist in Europe or Lat Am either. Manga works in Japan because it's a small island country and they have all their distribution stuff intertwined and they all have insane work ethic and autistic attention to detail from how they were raised from an early age. Manga authors will literally work all day everyday to the death (The Berserk guy actually did) to get the required output. Westerners just don't act like that. It's why their attempts to get chip manufacturing in the US never worked as well as Taiwan because you're never gonna get a western person to autistically lock in with pride and precise detail on the most mind numbing of work 16 hours a day like an Asian person will.

>>155673079
>Manga authors will literally work all day everyday to the death (The Berserk guy actually did)
he did not, he neglected his health and played video games instead of working or planning out and died of eating too much salty ramen and not moving enough.
Japanese manga worth ethic is really just having lots of assistants(like comics used to do when they were profitable)

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>>155673007
It's like this, this is all you're doing. You think it's clever, you're such a master of music you can write words in the shape of the notes, but what does it actually sound like?
Nothing about distracting panelling is storytelling. It's the antithesis of storytelling. It actively takes the viewer out of the action. It demands their attention not on the world, but on the art. You're forecefully told "this isn't real, it's just a drawing"

The medium of comics is soo much more than just pretty pictures. When done right, it grips the imagination of the senses and transports the reader to the world of the story. It's closer to cinema than books. It's animated, it alive, you can practically hear it even.
You can say it's fine either way and just personal preference, but to reject storytelling in favour of just pretty picture is like rejecting what music is today in favour of just academic classical music, who's appreciation has no emotion in it, but is just about the skill of the composer.
It's no competition.

>>155673007
American comic book artists seem to treat each individual page as an attempt at an art piece, there definitely is less importance placed on panel to panel "flow" in American comics

where do I start?
>issue #1
>anything else I should read on the side that I might miss out on?
naw just read the series, it's great

>>155673255
>Japanese manga worth ethic

Japanese society literally expects you to work yourself to death. The new right wing PM brags about sleeping just two hours a day.

>>155673079
Workaholic criticisms aren't really valid when applied to manga.
Manga artists enjoy what they do. They work so hard not because they're scrounging to make ends meet, but because the work is vast and if they want to actually see it to fruition they need to put in the hours.

Do you criticize an athlete putting in tons of hours to be the best? Or someone who retires and spends their every waking hour fishing or painting or whatever hobby?
Their getting paid is just a support structure to allow them to make their manga. To the mangaka, even the publisher is irrelevant, it's not about the money, it's about making their manga and if they had a trust fund and didn't need money, they'd still draw 10 hours a day to make their manga.

>>155650328
I think people should just read comics, if you don't read it's not going to be accessible.

>>155672638
>Panelling is a tool for communication, not graphic design.
There's room for both.

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>>155674011
There's really not. There's about as room for artistic panelling in comics as there is for artistic typography in a book. Could you read a book like pic related and be immersed, forget you're even looking at words but instead be absorbed into the imaginary world of the story?

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>>155674140
cont
The only thing a book should be in terms of its equivelant of panelling, is readable.
There is no room for graphic design, no artistic flexing. The presentation of the text should serve only to faciliate the reading of the text.
And in a comic, the panelling should serve as a window into the world. For a story to be emotionally impactful, it must be immersive. You must at some level believe that what you're reading is real, that these characters are alive and their actions mean something. If at any moment you're reminded that this isn't real, your immersion is broken and the magic vanishes. You can perhaps appreciate it on an academic level, but your heart is not in it, you did not feel it.

>>155674140
>>155674246
You're talking about one type of comic, but yes, I'd be interested in reading a comic with pages like that. The purpose is effect, not always immersion. Maintaining immersion makes sense for mainstream comics, but it shouldn't be mandated universally. That's foolish. And it doesn't always work, I know, but I welcome it.

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>>155674275
I really don't give a shit about comics that aren't about storytelling, and basically nobody else does. If you enjoy it, that's fine, but you represent an incredibly tiny minority of people, for whom there is virtually no market for.
Manga is a billion dollar industry and all of it is immersive storytelling.

Wacky panelling just reduces the art of comics to essentially a children's popup book.

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>>155674391
inventive page layouts is also storytelling.

>>155650328
comic reading app, like how manga has multiple. Massive library of basically EVERY capeshit comic so curious people can binge read the literal first issue of Batman all the way to current stuff

>>155674422
It's impossible to look at this without noticing that it's a drawing. Your immersion is broken, you are no longer reading a story but instead are looking at a drawing.

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>>155650328
They should be uploaded to a booru like site, where you can search for anything you like and find it instantly.

>>155674437
anon people are aware manga is a drawing when reading it too.

>>155674430
this exists already.

>>155669640
I didn't say do EVERY comic. But there's zero reason not to do your big ones. And you can still put them out in waves if you have to rather than storing shit for ages. There is zero reason Amazing Spider-man shouldn't be something you can just buy.

>>155674575
>But there's zero reason not to do your big ones.

That’s decades of comics, hundreds upon hundreds of issues, all costing an arm and a leg because there’s plenty of material that wouldn’t sell well

>>155674509
People do not cry to drawings, they cry to characters who feel alive.

An actor that cannot convincingly play a character is a bad actor. A comic that cannot convince the reader that what they're looking at is real is a shit comic.

>>155674575
They regularly put out new editions. But the demand isn’t there so they would simply keep l collecting dust at shelves so it would be wasting money.

>>155674613
If you can't afford to run your business there is something very wrong with your business

>>155674648
>movie just made over a billion
>There's no demand

>>155674672
Basically nobody who watches the movies reads the comics. There's no carryover whatsoever.

>>155674811
Because nobody CAN read the comics.

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>>155672638
The problem with this page isn’t the paneling, it’s the visual noise distracting from the paneling. There are so many transparent computer effects and bright, random sparkles drawing your eye away from the creative paneling, which is done in faded and drab tones, that you’re drawn towards the flashing city screens and the random line of lights near the middle of the page *instead of* the twisting asphalt road or the characters the story is focused on. The drab palette the main focus is drenched in clashes with the bright contrast of the useless background details (which are further weakened by having attention drawn to them, as they’re mostly blurry and computer-traced), distracting from the dialogue and the panel layout and making your example look like a useless mess. (The paneling itself is also wasted on the plot, which is pure mundanity.)

This page, meanwhile, pulls off the same thing but better: it uses the paneling to enhance the plot (protagonist going through a vortex of madness), distinguishes each and every panel through exciting events and singular colors, and doesn’t distract from the dialogue by placing it separately from its busiest parts (with few exceptions).

TL;DR: the paneling is a symptom of multiple much larger problems, and the kind of creative work you showed is ill-suited to a basic discussion in a car.

>>155675019
They wouldn't want to. they don't resemble the adaptations they like.

>>155674618
You're retarded.

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As an outsider looking in, who is part of the larger audience: I want a return to form. If they made a Superman movie where it embodies that old 1940s feeling of camp and sincerity I would love it.

But no. Over and over I see shit like Man of Steel or The Boys or Invincible, and it's getting redundant. We've done the whole "deconstruct the superhero" thing for so long that it is now just the standard. I don't care about your lore. I don't care how grimdark and edgy you think you are. I don't care how many references you have as a subtle nod to the fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcwCeHxAwA

Look at how soulful this shit is. I want this Superman back in the limelight.

>>155676667
Most outsiders do not want this shit.

>>155676685
Hey, I'm just giving my thoughts. Maybe nobody else wants it, but I think it'd be sick.

>>155676667
Batman
>basic framework of batman is enough
>every incarnation works: comedic, grimdark, realistic, street level, fantastical, futuristic, retro, etc.


Superman
>only a very specific type works and real superman has never been tried yet actually if you think about it

>>155676802
I guess that's a good point. Batman is just way more flexible as a character.

>>155674391
>I really don't give a shit about comics that aren't about storytelling
Then don't speak on them.

>>155666779
They're more like a budget, space friendly version and it works for their price point. It's for the kids really.

>>155650328
>mainline of all ages comics
Do you want comics to be even more sterile and sexless?

>>155673969
>Workaholic criticisms aren't really valid when applied to manga.
>Manga artists enjoy what they do.
What PR interview did you pull this from? Toriyama notoriously hated some of his years working on Dragon Ball and there are definitely hundreds more cases like this. Drawing 15 pages every couple of weeks is grueling work.

>>155673353
>Nothing about distracting panelling is storytelling.
It emphasizes narrative beats when placed appropriately and makes you feel like anything can happen, since the comic is breaking its own format. Can evoke way more memorable emotion than a generic fighting shot with action lines if you ask me.

>>155677560
Exactly, I would even dare to try pushing for new original stories made for that format, some of those compacts got me squinting to look at the art.

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Honestly I think doing an anthology style magazine in a shared universe could be a cool experiment. Imagine reading the Punisher and Moon Knight chapters each issue until both their stories end up coinciding and for a few issues they both get a single big chapter until their crossover event is over.

>>155677689
Manga can be quite sexy and violent while still being targeted towards younger audiences.

>>155650328
Collect all of their big titles (Spider-Man, X-Men, etc) into tonkobans so actions can read the series from it's first issue through its most recent issue in reading order. Released digitally, if need be

>>155655138
You have no proof any of it wouldn't when other the the people who've currently lead the industry into it's least profitable and least popular state that it's ever been in simply don't want to. In fact, most of the suggestions are just pointing to real life examples of things that have worked in the past or are currently working for other comics

>>155655704
>>155657799
Really, you just need an editor in chief that hasn't drank the kool aid. If they can't whip them into shape then give them the authority to terminate people and hire new writers and artists. The talent is out there, they've just purposely been iced out so the industry could be turned into a propaganda machine.

I'm sure the affected parties would pitch a massive fit online and in the media but if they just lead with transparency that they are not in the business of making political propaganda the public will side with them even if they agree with some of the liberal issues

>>155658745
It's true, even when I lived in Los Angeles there wasn't a really good place to buy them. You REALLY have to go seeking them out to find them, and even then it's only really feasible to pick up next month's issue of a title.

You should be able to just stumble on them at regular places. When they started carrying them at Walmarts I almost got into buying them but they never had like an actual recent issue of Spider-Man to pick up with a guarantee they'd have next month's, too, it was just some weird non canon story about Peter and the Human Touch racing.

It's like whenever they try to do something they purposely screw it up

>>155667284
All of the most iconic Spider-Man things happen in like the first 50 issues

>>155671751
While you have a bit of a point, it still fails to address that manga does do it. You're argument is essentially: "I don't want to do that much work and no one is going to make me."

As a newfag it would just be nice if it was like manga and easier to follow and had better art and stories. I keep going back to stuff 20+ years ago and even then I really hate having to look at flowcharts and gigantic omnibuses are intimidating. I get the appeal of the crazy issue spanning thing but idk there's no comic book stores here where I can just get weekly shit going like the 90s which I totally missed out on.

>>155678189
>Manga can be quite sexy and violent while still being targeted towards younger audiences.
Because Japs have different sensibilities, and even moden /a/ stuff is generally more restricted than older titles

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>>155678651
>All of the most iconic Spider-Man things happen in like the first 50 issues
A straight adaptation of Spider-Man starting from the beginning would genuinely be great, I'd love to see an attempt at authentically animating Ditko's art.

>>155672945
Dragon Ball's plot was literally: "I just wanna fight some tough guys!" and it still had an ending. It's a bit of a problem that they write them specifically to be a neverending serial, that's the same problem Western web novels like Defiance of the Fall has.

Really, though, the biggest problem is that the writers are just bad and only care about making political propaganda not entertaining stories.

>>155673079
Computer chips were invented in America, Anon.

>>155674613
They can do it digitally or print on demand

>>155678783
The 60's cartoon isn't bad but it could be adapted better

>>155678884
>The 60's cartoon isn't bad but it could be adapted better
I just read a blurb from Stan Lee that he completely lost interest in the 60's cartoons when it became clear the production companies weren't interested in genuinely adapting the comic stories.

>infuse it with a distinctly right-wing ideology
This will fail and it will deserve to fail. I'm tired of you racist Zoomers ruining everything with your Hitler worship.

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>>155678189
>>>155677689 #
>Manga can be quite sexy and violent while still being targeted towards younger audiences.


Isnt that what comics were like not even that long ago?

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>>155678984
>Isnt that what comics were like not even that long ago?
I had this comic when I was seven years old kek, kids are coddled big-time nowadays by helicopter parents.

>>155669805
Agreed. We should switch the language from English to Latin or some obscure language so poors can't read them.

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>>155678595
NTA but I'm in the middle of nowhere but my nearest comic book store is a 6 hour drive away. I always thought it was because of that not that it was bad everywhere which is sad.

Incidentally back in the day we used to have our own fucking provincial comic book somehow.

>>155679026
>asgardians start speaking in futhark

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>>155679008
They literally made action figures of these for kids even. I remember owning this one.

>>155674422
What is this A.I. slop?

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>>155679073
>>155679008
Kenner made some crazy shit

>>155679054
VGH, the glory of Proto-Germanic.

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>>155679121
Oh hey I remember that specific toy line. I had a few figures, including one of the Catwomen, but I was annoyed that her panther armor had more joints than her actual body.

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>>155679121
I had this Batgirl toy from McDonalds that I'd take into the bathroom with me and masturbate to as a kind of sexual totem.

>>155679307
Why...do you still have it...

>>155679602
Not my photo, pulled that from google

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I think my answer to OP is do this again

sell them in actual book stores.
at least half the reason manga outsells comics is that it's sold pretty much anywhere books are sold, while capeshit is only sold in comic book shops.

>>155680534
Literally went into Barnes & Noble yesterday and DC's Compact line is more and more of the graphic novel shelves. If DC keeps it up, it'll start rivaling the manga shelf again.

>>155678783
>>155678651
OG spider-man frequently tops pirate sites so I'm not surprised

>>155678939
All five Marvel Super Heroes cartoons were pretty faithful adaptations of specific issues.

>>155650328
Reboot it all and keep all the characters separate as much as possible. Pretty much what DC did with Absolute. But actually commit to things being separate.

>>155680720
I think he was talking about the Spider-Man and Fantastic Four cartoons specifically, not the Marvel Super Heroes shows with Hulk, Iron Man, Namor, Captain America, and Thor.

>>155678807
>Dragon Ball's plot was literally: "I just wanna fight some tough guys!" and it still had an ending.
Only because Toriyama couldn't drag it out anymore. Which stopped being an issue years later.

>>155680892
More like he didn't want to because of burnout. There's always ways to drag stuff out if you are willing.

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>>155650328
better writing

a doctor character? get input from real doctors. scientist character? get input from real scientists. if that's wrapped up in the same character, then actually commit to it.

stop letting liberals write just for trendy bullshit. it's stupid and will get dated very quickly. try having actual leftists write comics instead of retarded liberals who basically lean hard fascist because they also support israel or something.

magic based characters? have someone who actually knows mythology and studies religion

start being more politically subversive. have actual eco-terrorist protagonists. not retarded nature girl shit in krakoa no one asked for or took seriously. aquaman and orca should be pissed the oceans are polluted. chimp detective and animal man should be mad at mistreatment of animals. swamp thing, black orchid, floronic man and poison ivy should be pissed off at climate change. martian manhunter should be against dipshits like elon musk going to mars

stop pussy footing with violence and lean in to it. there should be team ups like punisher and x-23 and daredevil taking down pedo rings. consult actual investigators and criminal historians that can help comic writers construct a realistic high stakes narrative

like what the fuck is going on at marvel that they don't have a magic system at any given point so midnight sons can be a flagship team? how many fucking times are we going to recycle avengers?

an entire re-examination of capeshit needs to happen for people to take it seriously

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>>155680729
>segregate heroes
this is a horrible idea and it oversimplifies shared universes

Bring conservatives back in the fold

>>155682079
cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds. we all saw what happened krakoa, retard. you bring conservatives in and you'll get horrible shit like krakoa

>>155650328
KILL OFF EVERY FUCKING CHARACTER

>>155682092
Tbf, the initial premise of Krakoa was interesting, then libs and fags hijacked it and made it the worse thing imaginable

>>155678595
You literally can order a trade paperback online or buy comics digitally. Complaining that the only way you can read comics is being a Wednesday Warrior who physically goes to pick up single issues the from a store is sheer stupidity.

>But muh Walmart
Attempts to sell comics at grocery stores etc. has proven time and time again to be an utter failure because nobody buys comics that way anymore, dummy.

>>155678651
Gwen Stacy’s death, original or the second Clone Saga, Peter and MJ getting married, Kraven’s Last Hunt, Symbiote saga, etc. doesn’t happen in the first 50 issues. Just to name a few

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>>155682154
>Tbf, the initial premise of Krakoa was interesting, then libs and fags hijacked it and made it the worse thing imaginable
It's pretty clear Hickman's original plan was that it was going to eventually be a cautionary tale about isolationism, and there were story points early on that pointed at this. But then a vocal percentage of the readership and editorial thought Krakoa was a GOOD thing.

>>155678744
>gigantic omnibuses are intimidating

On noes, I could get one big book that collects everything in chronological order?!?

>>155682064
hell yeah it simplifies it. Shared universes are a clusterfuck that make comics impossibly complicated to read.
To read one title should be all you need. You shouldn't be forced to read multiple titles to get a single story

>>155682079
There's plenty of conservatives that work in comics, just not the obnoxious blowhards like EVS.

>>155682154
Oh fuck off. The blame for Krakoa falls entirely on Hickman and his inability to run a franchise as the chief creative person, as seen by how he quits midway when he doesn’t like that all the other writers wanted to do more with the brand new status quo instead of burning it to the ground before they even got to really do anything with it.

It’s completely ridiculous that Hickman creates this insanely convoluted radically new status quo that requires countless retcons and “just turn your brain off, bro” level of acceptance for it to make sense and then allows multiple different books take place in it and even create a completely pointless crossover event around it that doesn’t add almost anything to the overall story, if he was going to just get rid of Krakoa so quickly. He should have just written or co-authored the necessary other titles instead of wasting time writing superfluous New Mutants relaunch and made it clear this was all going to burn to the ground in six months so be don’t waste time setting up things.

>>155682154
>Tbf, the initial premise of Krakoa was interesting,
So isn't a house fire. That doesn't mean it's good.

>>155680534
Anon they’ve been selling comics in bookstores since before you were born. Have you never seen a comic section in Barnes and noble?
Seriously it’s been a thing since the mid-80s.

>>155680729
>>155682482
Absolute was never conceived as separate. What you seem to want is more self-contained books than separate universes per se. That’s what Absolute does.
Something like Spider-man having three titles you had to read to get a complete story in the 90s is about the same issue even if the character was mostly “ self-contained” (in that events in non-Spider books didn’t really affect him)

>>155678595
Newstand distribution was always fucky if you ask anyone who was around when it was in the waning days of the 70s and 80s. You could rarely guarantee getting sequential issues month to month, which is why companies like Archie focussed on digests and marvel /DC just did anthology issues like that.

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>>155650328
I misread it for a moment and thought OP was talking about "rape comics".

>>155683256
No I do want separate universes. Virtually none of these superheroes work when they coinhabit the same reality.
The superhero is supposed to be the main character of their universe. Shared universes relegates the majority of characters to meager support roles. Batman has no physical strength compared to Superman, he can't beat anyone up, all he can do is plan. And Superman next to Batman no longer has any intelligence.
The Flash has no power when he has to live in the same world as people slower than him but who must be his equal.
It's just garbage.

>>155650328
For DC, create a new line based off of the 1980s style guide. Self-contained stories that appeal to both kids and adults. No edgy bullshit.

They have good story. They have good art. They have good characters. They have good action. They are able to make comics that don't have swearing in it. All they need to do is make it affordable.

>>155650328
Create "starter books" Self contained fresh starts that last 6 to 18 issues with new characters and forbid any crossovers until the first run is over.

>>155650328
Marvel? Very easy:
Fire all the sjws. Tell guards to shoot them if they are close to the building.
Moore, Gaiman, Morrison. THis is your home. Feel free to come and write wonderful stories with our characters. Do whatever you want with them. Oh, and could you solve the OMD mess, please?
Real continuity. Characters will grow old and die. And they won't appear in more than 2 series.
No more decompressed narrative.
No more Ultimate universe.
90s characters: kill them off. Fuck Cable, Deadpool and all that shit.
Creative Commons licenses for all Marvel products.
Epic Illustrated v2. European and Latin American stories.
Spanish translations of books. It's the second language of the US!
Republish pre-1990 material and let 90s books rot in the cellar.
Punisher out of 616 universe.
Give Moon Knight a decent writer, for Jack's sake.
Don't charge more than 2 $ per issue.
More translations of foreign material (yes, including manga)
A Vertigo-like collection.
Fuck crossovers and events.
Less splash pages. We are telling a story, you know.
Aunt may dies forever.
Iron man: he fell into a puddle and got rust. Killed off or a B-list again.
Writers and artists keep the copyright every time they create a new character.
Characters can smoke or take drugs if necessary or cool.
Put the ads at the end of the story. No more interruptions.

>>155652838
Underrated post
Anthologies are the gateway. You don't have to know jackshit about any of the material inside. Part of the appeal is the mystery and that can usually get the reader interested in finding out what happens next or going back to see what happened before.
That being said maybe start some new self contained to the anthology lines. Epic Illustrated reborn type of thing.

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>>155650328
replace them with better comics

>>155683548
>pic
and none of them big at all

>>155650328
fire all lefty weirdos and do what manga does
tell stories aimed at boys
not at girls, not at male feminist, not at white men hating females
just straight boys who want to see stories about people that look like them being heroes and going on adventures

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>>155683511
Why 18 issues? If the issue is that people don't want to read comics that have crossovers, why sabotage your own efforts?
I was enjoying Batman 2016 right up until precisely this moment. Who the fuck are all these people? Where did they come from? What started as a self contained story just suddenly became a tiny part in the middle of a much larger story. So I stopped reading.

What's the cutoff? 18 issues? 180 issues? 1000 issues? The problem is that I don't want to be forced to read other books to read a single book. I bought this book, I want to read this book. I don't care about what's going on in other books. If you absolutely must incorporate some other story into your narrative, then reprint it and retitle and seamlessly bind it into the book I'm currently reading. I will not buy another title as pre-requisite reading.

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>>155683633
Your advice can be generalised to be more effective, and immune from criticism.
Why fire lefities? Why target boys? Why straight boys?
The answer has nothing todo with these people specifically, but rather what's behind them.
The straight boys are the biggest market for cape comics. And lefties aren't capable of writing stories that appeal to that audience.
If we use the word 'good' to mean 'sells well' then your advice can be generalised down to pic related, and is far more effective that way.