It's not that bad.
>>155663982i dont think people consider it bad, just over rated. like the long halloween.
>>155663982It's not that good either
>>155663982Denny O'Neil was the proto-Tom King/Damon Lindelof of his day.>ERM, WHAT IF THE WORLD OF BATMAN WAS ACTUALLY DEPRESSING AND EDGY AND SCARY AND MISERABLE
>>155664013The long halloween is a bad mystery book but has a really good sense of time and space, great art too. I think the movie, by trying to make it more of an actual mystery and have better set up and payoff , actually makes the story worse. >>155663982I like the art a lot, I think the Moore writing is good even though I think the point it's trying to make is kind of boring. It's very slight, I'd say if it was a single issue in a larger run it would just be a good little story, by the standard of being a stand alone novel I think it falls flat.
>>155664136>but has a really good sense of time and space, great art tooi will admit i do like how it takes place in an entire year but to batman its just the same "night"
>>155664157Yeah but that kind of rules, it's just one long rolling night for batman as he runs himself ragged. Dark Patterns follows a similar structure, but really plays into just how tired and injured he is getting, it's excellent. If you haven't checked it out Dark Patterns is excellent.
>>155664013No, some definitely do consider it bad. I remembered John Byrne and much of his forum considering it bad.
>>155664216>Yeah but that kind of rules,i literally agreed with you anon, why are you replying like i disagreed you doughnut
>>155663982It was too edgy. Almost like some aspirating school shooter wrote it.
>>155664136>I'd say if it was a single issue in a larger run it would just be a good little story, by the standard of being a stand alone novel I think it falls flat.It was initially supposed to be a Batman annual, but Brian Bolland took so long on the art it got moved to a special instead. It's why Alan Moore did a story about Clayface III in Batman Annual #11, because DC had already announced Alan Moore would be doing a Batman annual, and then had to scramble when they realized Killing Joke wouldn't be ready for annual publication in time.
>>155664340yeah it does come across like a 15 year olds "super kewl and dark!!1" at some points
>>155664340>>155664439That's more Arkham Asylum with its sequences of Batman self-harming than Killing Joke.
>>155664462the art carried the story with the gothic realism. killing joke is just young teen edgyim sure we can go back and forth with this but thats just what i think about it.
>>155664478You not knowing what you're talking about is the biggest obstacle in this potential back and forth.
>>155664515youre allowed to think that but i assure you ive read both a few a times.
>>155664538Apparently you didn't understand them despite this. That, or you have shitty communication skills.
>>155664552its probably the latter.can you explain how i dont understand either of them because i think killing joke is like a 13 year old trying to be cool and edgy, and arkham asylum is carried by its art?
>>155664583Let's start with what you aren't saying. It's such a reduction of either comic, you might as well not have commented. Both opinions can and are arrived at by people who didn't read them.If you don't remember anything beyond this, I get it, but then why continue replying?If you do remember more, why not delve into it?
>>155663982It's great, but I agree that it should never have become canon.Its best feature is exploring a crescendo/slump in the lives of all involved that ends with an uneasy conclusion about everyone involved.Once integrated into a timeline with other far more insane events and further ongoings it just makes Joker's read that the whole world is insane seem correct.Joker shot a cop's kid, tortured a commissioner and confessed to him, Barbara and Batman plainly that he had full coherence in what he was doing and the intended reaction, no insanity plea.In no sane world could nor should he walk from that.He doesn't need to be killed by Batman before anyone misconstrues, but the point is even Joker in the story reacted like he was done when Gordon didn't break.Everyone carrying on from TKJ like it was another day is just fucking nuts.
>>155664715>but then why continue replying?its nice to talk to someone about comics.
>>155664776>Everyone carrying on from TKJ like it was another day is just fucking nuts.100%. DC is fucktarded.
>>155664776>Everyone carrying on from TKJ like it was another day is just fucking nuts.That's more of the larger issue of the comics getting way too metatextual for their own good. It can work in a story like Dark Knight Returns or stories clearly out of "canon", but doing it in mainline comic books just doesn't work at all.
>>155664231Byrne and his troupe of sychophants are a bunch of retarded manchildren, hardly an opinion to take seriously...
>>155664776I know it’s just Morrison’s reading of the ending, but Batman strangling the Joker at the end is how the story should’ve ended. It would’ve been non-canon, since DC isn’t getting rid of the Joker, but it would’ve been a better ending for the book.
>>155667080No, that's a retarded ending.
>>155667332Then why don’t you like it?
>>155667376Because I'm not retarded.
>>155663982Did he kill the Joker or not?
>>155668703The book is in continuity, so no, but also the authorial intent was not that he dies either, so the only real argument for him having killed him is viewer interpretation, which is up to you.
>>155668703It doesn't matter if he did it not, Joker won in the end
>>155664136The movie doesnt have the amazing art Sale provides, not to mention it somehow made the mystery even worse. And dont even get me started on how they completely fucked up the ending.
Gordon mindrape
>>155663982If you don’t like it it’s because you are a zoomer with bad taste.
>>155663982It's good. People that say it's not are just being performative, ask for their top 25 and they'll sneak some trash in it that's worse than this.
>>155668737They should've respected his authority
>>155664013Except Killing Joke is incredible whereas Long Halloween is dogshit beyond the art. The mystery and final reveal are total bullshit and there are a ton of unexplained issues like how Harvey survived his house blowing up without a scratch and Gilda only got a head injury. Eye of the Beholder is what Loeb stole from and it's a WAY better Two Face origin and psychological story.>>155664340Huh? It's probably one of the most inspirational Batman comics, it's all about shitting on the Joker's retarded idea of "muh bad day", the darkest thing is the endless loop of them fighting which isn't that edgy honestly.>>155664462ASHoSE is utter dogshit.
>>155667080>>155667376That's a shit ending. The entire fucking comic beyond dunking on Joker is about the endless cycle of Joker vs Batman, the first and last panels are the exact same (a puddle in the rain), the beginning of the comic has Batman telling fake Joker that unless he stops they're going to be in an endless cycle until one of them dies, the end of the comic with the joke is about the futility in both sides, Joker trying to become better and Batman trying to save him, and they both recognize how absurd the entire situation is and laugh together for once waiting for the police. The comic wouldn't have worked if Batman kills the Joker, the entire gimmick as metatextual analysis is broken.>>155668737No he didn't. His entire philosophical outlook was destroyed when both Gordon and Batman prove him wrong. The end of the comic has him be depressed about how he's too far gone to consider coming back to the light and that he needs to keep deluding himself to keep living. It's a total loss for Joker beyond Barbara which was never intended to be a permanent thing by Moore, that was a later change by other writers.>>155668728And all the thematic storytelling which everyone conveniently ignores.
>>155668703Also, another issue with Batman killing Joker is that it's thought of by cynical hateful retards who miss the entire point of the comicBatman is stuck in the cycle precisely BECAUSE he believes in the inherent goodness of humans and that even Joker can be saved and redeemed once he accepts reality for what it isJoker meanwhile copes with the bad day excuse to forget his horrible attrocities and doesn't want to bring himself to reality because that would mean having to realize all the mayhem and pain he's causedThat's the entire point of the final joke, the asylum patient who crosses the beam is Batman who reaches reality and wants to help Joker become a better person and admit his evil, Joker is the patient that doesn't want to cross the beam because he fears Batman will make him fall off which represents falling into the eternal pain and guilt over what he's done. Both are in the Asylum because both have suffered greatly (although Joker's backstory is not provable and it's implied he was always crazy), but one makes it out and becomes a better man for it whereas the other refuses and is tied to suffering for the rest of his life so long as he doesn't cross the beam.
>>155670093Whoa. I didn't know Abe met the Hulkster.
>>155670304God I hate these recolors so much
>>155672395Based.
>>155672395Cringe.
>>155663982I appreciate stories and writers that use a lot of nuance and open ended interpretations.
>>155663982It's a great comic. Moore talked shit about it because he just hates DC, his fans are parrots, and his haters look for any excuse to diminish him. Simple as.
>>155663982honestly reading it again in absolute format really makes me think it's just some retard's attempt at being edgyI don't even mean Babs being crippled or 'raped'I mean inherently the whole fucking artwork, paneling, pacing etc really comes across as 'haha oh boy funny clown but he's le hecking meanie!!!!Joker 2008 was far better at it
>>155664462The commentary in my TPB version claims that this was meant to be pretty minor but McKean just turned it up to 11 and had Batman inflict a debilitating injury on himself instead of a small cut.
>>1556756012008 Joker is total dogshit.
>>155673845Same.
>>155672395The stupidest thing about the recolor is Bolland removing the yellow oval, making the chest logo just look very tiny. It also doesn't makes sense since that was the costume Batman was wearing in 1988.
God, I love pictures no colors so much.
>>155677726>sidewaysKWAB
>>155664437I liked that one too.
>>155680022It's a very good story (and unfairly forgotten), putting you in Clayface's perspective, the fact that he's genuinely mentally ill in a more real way than most of Batman's antagonists, then shifting the POV back to Batman for the last third. I also like it's one of those times Batman attempts to help rehabilitate one of his enemies.
