How did we get here?No, seriously, explain it to me like I'm 6.How do you have home field advantage and still manage to bungle a market this fucking badly?
>>155877666Over an entire generation of a concerted effort to kill the medium will do that
As with all English-language media, a concentrated effort to make everything shit, sanctimonious and gay.
>>155877666Ease. You pick up a manga and it says issue 1 and it means it. That doesn’t work the same for dc and marvel super heroes. They don’t push non superhero shit. Neil Gaiman is problematic now so they stopped pushing Sandman. That was probably the biggest not cape kinda cape story they pushed.
>>155877666>Treat your clientele, that is young straight white men, like shit>Churn out garbage comics that will eventually be collected into an overpriced book>Become an overglorified IP mill for tv series and films>Assume everyone would be on board with all this because you're "democratizing" comicsIt certainly is a mystery, that's for sure, floppyfaggot.
>>155877666Look how thick some of those books are.
>>155877666DC and Marvel ran their publishing like cigarette manufacturers. A product that appeals only to an ever-dwindling number of hopeless addicts who refuse alternatives which repulses everyone else.Manga is like a wonderful candy store in comparison. Endless variety with something delightful for everyone.
>>155877666I don't care about the manga vs comics war, they're Anti-American posts.
>>155877748The problem with this thinking is that after a year or two they don’t reprint so most bookstores dont have volume 1. And, like woth comics, subsequent volumes sell less and so random volumes go OOP as well. So even if you were going to jump into a new 50 volume series youre looking at about 550 dollars of cover price and tax. Add in having to track some down online used and with shipping costs it’s not really any more accessible. So this “issue 1 is issue 1” shit explains why some do well digitally but not physically.
>>155877771Most of the manga sold in book stores is shonen with some romance (whatever Japanese term the trannys call it) here and there. By and large shonen is no more diverse than American comics.
>>155877666Japan still targets heterosexual males.The west has given up and instead focuses on the supermajority fanbase of women, gays, and trans as this supergroup tends to all want the same thing.The problem is that this supergroup is also not likely to enjoy anything unless it’s already popular so they enjoy nothing in earnest.
>>155877666Comic books have whole stores anon 2853 of them maybe more counting all the junk shops and game stores full of back issues in the US, anime and manga shops barely exist in the west and Barnes & Noble only has 600 locations. It's easier to find comics in middle of bumfuck nowhere than any weeb shit, I should know I'm from Oklahoma.
>It’s another retard doesn’t get that capeshit is distributed in dedicated comic book stores so Barnes & Nobel decides to target the untouched manga market thread There are no individual manga stores for a reason
>>155877748It amazes me that western comics are treated the same as modern fables. Think about it. Spider-Man can sell an origin story multiple times over and audiences will eat it up if there's some superficial twist. So it's like you said where manga has a definitive starting point being a huge edge, since the origins for a lot of capeshit characters, or their original rogues galleries, are buried in floppies. Indexing the "essential" stories is pretty much impossible for a casual newcomer.
>>155877666Is the whole shop empty except for those two blacks and the camera?
>>155877782American comics are mostly jewish.
>>155877814>I'm from OklahomaYou live in a bum fuck state filled with redneck retards. Of course you aren’t seeing Manga.
>>155877666French comics never caught on, I guess.I was surprised at how many comics the French put out.
>>155877814Nearly any antique store in America has comic books, yeah modern freshly print manga might sell more but I won't doubt it back issues out sell manga just by the amount that exist and how you can find them anywhere. Most first comics were all used anyway.
>>155877806Anon, just looking in that OP image I can see multiple seinen, shoujo, and even josei properties.Vagabond, Parasyte, Nana, Mushishi, and Gantz aren't shonen.
>>155877666Retarded, repetitive stories
>>155877831I see anime DVDs more than manga at those nerd stores around here.
>>155877842There was no real scanlation scene for French comics like there was/is for manga.Eurocomic fans expect you to just read 6 different languages I guess.
>>155877831That's anon point, old comics are fucking where, so who cares if you don't see them in new stores.
>>155877842>>155877879The reason manga is popular in the US and Japan in general is it's ''safe foreign'' no matter how Japanese something is Japanese media is so ingrained into American ideologies and influences and everything else that the differences are surface level vs European works really are a completely different world even British work is too different for an American even if it the same language, the cultures are too far removed vs Japanese work is just US but somewhat different. Japanese work would have to be from pre-1900's to feel removed from it's extremely US influence.
>>155877953
>>155877666>https://x.com/MinistryofOtaku/status/2109713235708350804>Post get a bit of attention on twitter>Immediately find a thread with it as an OP on 4chanI stopped counting how many boards this shit keeps happening on.Seriously, did you ever have an original idea in your life?
>>155877842Also French comics are released once a year with 64-72 pages if you are lucky. Very little content and it's traditionally overpriced as well, as manga didn't explode in the US until Tokyopop mainstreamed selling magna for $10, which forced Viz to follow suit
>>155877953>The reason manga is popular in the US and Japan in general is it's ''safe foreign''Uhh...what?Wouldn't Euro comics be closer to "safe foreign" since Europe is (supposedly) closer to the US culturally?I think you're putting the egg before the chicken, the reason why manga is seen as more compatible now is because Japan has basically spent the last 35 years being almost completely uncontested when it comes to foreign media in America.Most people would struggle to name 10 animated European films from the 80s and 90s, there just wasn't much penetration for that media and most of the time they wouldn't even be translated.Japan just had more of a grassroots appreciation in America (and other parts of the world) that doesn't seem to be anywhere near as common when it comes to European media.
>>155878028>I think you're putting the egg before the chickenNot sure how I fucked that up, I'm retarded.You're putting the chicken before the egg.*
>>155877666Quality and genre diversity.
>>155878028>Wouldn't Euro comics be closer to "safe foreign" since Europe is (supposedly) closer to the US culturally?Wrong, look at how much anime and manga feel like American things and tell me otherwise, anime and manga have gotten more homogenized but the Western influence is still extremely there. There is no Anime/manga as we know it without America, they likely just be a niche thing like most countries or closer to Euro stuff.
>>155877806>Most of the manga sold in book stores is shonenMaybe but not by a large margin, if it's 35%, 30%, 20% and 15% then 35% is still not an overwhelming majority.>By and large shonen is no more diverse than American comicsAlso wrong.
>>155878062>spikey hairy guys fight>pedophile romance>homosexuality wow great diversity
>>155878091No offense, but I think this might just be your foreigner victim complex, since something tells me you're not American.Western Europe is far closer to America culturally than Japan is. Japanese stuff took off here because people found it interesting (often times exotic even).
>>155878104More so than 1, homosexual superhero comics with shitty action.
>>155878113>Western Europe is far closer to America culturally than Japan is. Japanese stuff took off here because people found it interesting (often times exotic even).We're talking about their media dumbass, Japanese media at least anime and manga is basically the same shit as our comics and cartoons more so than Euro /co/ shit is.
>>155878154Nah bro. That's just wishful thinking on your part.
>>155878154Not really, again, I think this is your foreigner victim complex talking.Euro /co/ shit is so culturally similar to our own that often times people won't even realize that what they thought was made in America was actually made in some European country.Just look at stuff like the Despicable Me movies, Klaus, Wolfwalkers, etc. etc.
>>155878164Look at all the anime from the 80's looking like action films from US, Ghibli being basically Disney, Shounen basically capeshit, moe being basically same as the American funny girl comic like Little Lulu like fuck off.
>slop>slop, Japan
>>155878174In fact, a significant proportion of the artists working in the American comic book industry are Euros or Latinos.
>>155878174You're a retard, just because anime looks less western doesn't make it any less western in it's story and tropes.
>>155878214It is objectively less culturally similar to America than European stuff is.This idea that Euro media isn't popular here because it's just completely incomprehensible for us on a cultural level is fucking moronic, and only a foreigner would believe that.
>>155878199At least with Berserk there's titties and rape.
>>155877666>The CCA crippled genre variety for decades>The industry crashed in the 90s and we never recovered>Color and print quality inflates price whereas the average tankobon is cheaper >Manga's variety, output, and longevity isn't reliant on us so something can thrive more and accrue longer sustainability Anyone worth their salt can easily point you to genuine recommendations but you're a retarded twitter parasite so you never cared for comics to begin withFuck off
>>155877666They stopped selling comics in convenience stores.Comics became a “comic shop” thing and the guys who ran comic stores are fanboys and rude to women and children. This lost an entire generation of fans until the MCU started.
>>155877666A lack of sex appeal
Don't care. Still won't read SHITnga. Fuck off to your board.
>>155878228Euro shit like what in Heavy Metal Magazine is completely removed from America in it's sensibilities, it comes from a different world of cartooning, Japanese cartooning comes from the US.
>>155878282>Euro shit like what in Heavy Metal Magazine is completely removed from America in it's sensibilitiesNot really, again, this is some kind of baffling foreigner cope.You might as well say that no one in America could possibly like Judge Dredd.
>>155878260Actually you can still buy them at Dollar Tree
>>155878298Dredd is popular because he's an American character with American inferences but no one in the US cares about like Dan Dare, it's too British to be popular here but something like Sailor Moon might feel foreign but at the end of the day it's basically just Supergirl with extra steps.
>>155877879Something people don't tend to realize is that the people scanning, translating, writing Wikis, etc for manga aren't even AmericansThey're done by people from SEA or Eastern EuropeAmericans don't tend to realize that we got anime and manga LATE compared to other countries
>>155878279Based CHADulk
>>155878337>but no one in the US cares about like Dan DareNo one in the US knows who Dan Dare is because the character has probably gotten a total of maybe 20 issues in the last 30 years outside of a mailorder-only magazine.Meanwhile Sailor Moon got 18 volumes and continues to be regularly reprinted.Made in Abyss is very much not tailored to American tastes, and yet you can still find it quite easily in basically any bookstore outside of maybe rural bumbfuck Arkansas.
That one anon is right, European stuff does feel really different from /a/ and /co/ stuff, I guess it's why I never cared for it.
>>155877814>and Barnes & Noble only has 600 locationsthat sounds rather bullshit with how easily I've been able to find them in various states
>>155878390>Made in Abyss>very much not tailored to American tastes>Characters go exploring >They're kids>It's actually darkWow some of most common tropes in fiction
>>155878193Wrong on everything.
>>155878325i saw that last time I was there. I also saw a lot of people grocery shopping there which made me sad
>>155878427Anon, 600 locations would mean an average of 12 per state, and chances are most of those locations are situated in the more populated states.
>>155878462If you actually think Made in Abyss is at all comparable to Over the Garden Wall you might actually be fucking retarded and clearly don't actually know anything about Made in Abyss.
>>155877666>home field advantageIt's not an advantage in this case. A large part of the appeal of manga is that it's so different from western storytelling, both in visuals and how stories are told. There isn't a single western sports story that feels like a sports manga, or looks like one. There's a lack of flourish and exaggeration that makes manga/anime exciting and engaging to read, while at the same time feeling like you get attached to the characters thanks to a level of intimacy that American comics avoid. Manga characters are allowed to be horny, sleezy, goofy, etc while still being considered "good" in a way American stories avoid. People say the visuals of manga aren't important or that there's no overall "manga style", and that's not really true, there's a distinct look to Japanese work that makes people interested in it in the first place. But they stay for the style of storytelling, which nothing western has every really pulled off except maybe Radiant so far.
>>155878199I rather see male MCs crying than getting raped all the time
>>155877666>Shift to more expensive paper>Implosion of editor control>Pandering to teens then adults then grayhairs in mainlines instead of kids>Decline of art quality, especially in regards to hot chicks>Kid-focused sublines get cancelled after 2 years>Cheaper to produce manga, which means higher profit margins>>155877748Retard alert
>East vs West thread #123810957421095831431094802
>>155878279Kek.
>>155877795Manga reprints all the time. Only DC and Marvel doesn't.
>>155878501>There isn't a single western sports story that feels like a sports mangaYeah it's called movies.
>>155878337>Sailor moon is like supergirl with extra stepseuro anon never read the original manga or the original comics but sees some superficial similarities and accuses apples and oranges to be the same thing based on superficial similarities while accusing other people to do it.>but japan took influence from american cinema unlike european stuff!You mean that the country that was a sealed island was influenced by outside media once it reached them? American media by it own very nature is directly influenced by european culture and traditions while japanese took deep influence from their own culture, hell they even have a completely different manner of storytelling.The lack of appeal of european media and characters speaks only of its own shortcomings. >>155878462Case and point. Anon cant see past Superficial similarities
>>155877831Tranny spotted.
>>155877666I believe it’s been covered by most of the replies but to put it simply:Manga/anime still aims to entertain a core audience while comics/cartoons are largely self serving ego projects.Both, however, suffer from ever dwindling levels of creativity and inspiration.
>>155877666The speculator bubble and the dominance of comic book stores.
>>155878558>>155877795I'm not saying reprints don't matter, compacts actually influencing discourse and Bone being evergreen is proof of that but we live in an age where piracy is pretty much accustomed toI know there are people who still read and buy physically whether it'd be out of tactile fulfillment or as decoration but if 15 year olds in other countries could figure out reading orders, what's /co/'s excuse?And that's just for comics that'd have to even warrant reading orders to begin with
>>155878558The fuck you on about? American comics live on reprints, manga only gets reprinted if it's super popular here or Japan, the US will reprint fucking old romance comics no one cares about. Meanwhile manga won't even reprint something like standard edition of Trigun and you gotta buy the deluxe edition which is 50 bucks a volume, at least comics you got options you can get the huge omni of The Question or the cheap trade that coming soon but manga like here's Jojo but sorry hardcover only in the US.
>>155878646>American comics live on reprints,People complain all the time that Marvel/DC suck at reprinting their back catalog (and keeping it affordable) to the point where foreign publishers are better at doing it for them and that's why they turn to piracyAnd that's just Marvel and DC, there are plenty of small publisher, indie, etc comics that don't get reprinted because of niche appeal or outright rights fuckeryI can recommend plenty of comics to people but said comics aren't necessarily going to be what's available on shelves
>>155878028>Wouldn't Euro comics be closer to "safe foreign" since Europe is (supposedly) closer to the US culturally?anime, especially shonen anime, has been culturally ingrained in the US for about 30 years now. A lot of European comics fall under two major styles:-cartoony kids stuff that's basically related if not descended from stuff like Disney comics, which has no relevance to most people under 40-adult,lurid, somewhat nihilistic or erotic that eschew more exagerrated storytelling and action in favor of more mature storytellingFrankly, most American audiences like really cool action,edgy or goofy but likeable protagonists, sexy but stylized(i.e. non-realistic) women, cute comfortable stories about cute characters. European comics don't really offer that, and if they do it's like a single volume of 50 pages every 2 years.
>>155878646Manga also leaning harder into the ''premium collectors market'' in the US which means some stuff isn't even printed in standard editions, if I want Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind I have to buy a hardcover boxset because the old volumes are out of print and hell boxset might be too.
>>155878209Why? Black people have loved asian shit forever.
>>155878691>-cartoony kids stuff that's basically related if not descended from stuff like Disney comics, which has no relevance to most people under 40Scholastic is literally the 2nd-largest comic publisher in US bookstores, right behind Viz, and that kind of stuff is their bread and butter.
>>155878686>People complain all the time that Marvel/DC suck at reprinting their back catalog Because there's just so much of it but they still reprint more than manga which is mainly one and done like most the popular Tokyopop titles never been reprinted since they went under even though Kodansha owns lot of it.
>>155878279Retard.
>>155878725I mean more like classic cartoony comics. The scholastic stuff doesn’t feel much like either Duck comics or Asterix. Maybe Bone but that’s 30 years old.
>>155877859>"daddy can you buy me the latest demon slayer manga, all my friends at school have it!">"oh hohohoh son, you don't want that, I'll show you something way better!">"take your pick son, I know they're a little dusty, but when I was your age, this was the hottest shit ever!"
>>155877819All the comic stores I've been to recently sell manga as well.
>>155878528These are the best comic book threads we get nowadays. Storytimes are largely shit or ignored, /shelf/ dies very fast, discussion threads are largely ignored.
>>155878993I'd rather this place talk about comics we actually like rather than wallow in self-deprecation 24/7
>>155878558Stuff as popular as Dragon ball and one piece? Sure. but even then it’s usually the first few volume. Try finding the first ten volumes of even something as popular as dandadan without having to go online. Then either pay 115 with tax all at once or hope they’re all still there next time you go. Note I didn’t say American comics were any better I just get sick of people acting like ALL manga are accessible in stores. By and large they also leave a lot of gaps for new readers which is an increasing barrier of entry, soon to be made worse by higher cover price.
>>155879038>Try finding the first ten volumes of even something as popular as dandadan without having to go online.Uhh...
>>155878861>demon slayerI read it, I enjoyed it, I have no clue how it became so popular.Seems to be more of a niche story, but it somehow won mainstream appeal.
>>155877806At a surface glance, it may appear that all anime is the same, particularly shonen anime.But when you take a closer look, you can actually see that they're all different IP's, none of which allows any crossover with one-another.For example, in the anime Bleach (and by the way all of these are manga too), The story takes place in the regular modern world except that there are invisible monsters called hollows attacking people. Another group of people called Shinigami fight off these hollows. They're both actually members of the afterlife in Bleach, and the Shinigami live in a place called the Soul Society, which you can see on the top right.By contrast, Deathnote also takes place in the regular modern world, but unlike Bleach, there are no hollows here. There are Shinigami, but they are very different (the word shinigami is not owned by either of this IP's), they are monstrous creatures that kill people with notebooks (Bleach Shinigami do not have death notebooks), and their world is the dark gloomy one in the middle. It is the afterlife.Another series, Dragonball, also has the afterlife, but unlike either Bleach or Deathnote, it again is very different.And then breaking away totally from the mold, on the bottom left is Naruto, which is not the regular modern world at all, infact Tokyo doesn't even exist in it. Then there is Yugioh in which a cardgame has taken over the world, that only exists in that IP, and then there is Fullmetal Alchemist on the bottom right, where the magic system of alchemy exists, and in it there are no death notebooks nor shinigami.As you can see, unlike Marvel or DC comics, each manga even under the same publisher, are all very different and cannot crossover at all. You can love Bleach while hating Naruto, and there's no issue.
>>155877666Anime appealed to kids teens young adults and adults, comic themed cartoons appealed to kids and comics were written for 35 year-olds exclusively. Also the popular versions were rarely the comic versions.
>>155879094contBy contrast, taking just DC comics for example,There's this guy called Superman, who's an alien from the planet Krypton, but he now lives on modern day Earth in a city called Metropolis, he's super powerful there because of his being an alien, and he fights a dude called Lex Luthor.Now here's where it gets messy.There's also this guy called Batman, who also lives in modern day Earth, but while he lives in a city called Gotham, it's actually the same world as the one Superman is in. They're both in the same story. Batman fights a guy called the Joker, but he could also fight Lex Luthor, and Superman could fight the Joker. Infact this does sometimes happen.There's also a whole myriad of other characters, the Flash who can run very fast and think faster than an atto-second, Green Lantern who has a magical ring that gives him amazing powers, Aquaman and Wonderwoman who are sometimes literally Poseidon and Artemis, and Hawkman, who has wings and can fly (Batman's wings are not real, but he can also sometimes fly).If you like Superman but you don't like Batman, you're shit out of luck. Batman appears in a great number of Superman stories, he's a core part of the mythology.If you don't like even the smallest part of what DC publishes, you are forced to accept that it exists in all of what DC publishes.In effect, there is only 1 IP that comes out of DC and it is the DC shared universe. Superman is not a separate universe to Batman in the same way that Naruto is separate from Bleach. You can like Bleach without liking Naruto and never interact with Naruto. You cannot do the same with Superman against Batman.
>>155878337Actually Sailor Moon is X-Men with extra steps as it's powers and abilities and fighting is on par with the Marvel cartoons at the time.The only people comparing Sailor Moon to Supergirl are asshole feminazis who are still butt hurt SM fandom is primarily conservative white men who like attractive heroines.
>>155878390Sailor Moon actually has years of being out of print in the US and three different translations.
It's retarded how inaccessible comic books are, and I still don't understand why. I'm not saying it's impossible to find them, because obviously that's not the case, but if you're a kid that wants to get into the medium good fucking luck. Physical copies are pretty much only sold at specialize stores that might not exist in your area and go out of business constantly, and also those stores have very slim selections. Meanwhile manga volumes are sold in scholastic catalogs. Floppies also cost as much as manga volumes so there goes your allowance. Digital copies of comics are also pretty inaccessible, but you can type "free manga" and get a billion different manga piracy sites that host every manga ever made.
>>155877748As someone who tried really getting into comics in the 10s, this is how I got tired of it. Most American comics is just random shit happening with no structure or story to tell for the most part. Nothing matters to the world or the characters, it's just endless random events piling on top of each other. I think the best american super hero comics I got to read were Kurt Busiek's Astro City. Unlike most other comics, everything felt like it mattered, even if it only mattered to that story's protagonist.
>>155879252contThe Joker exists in Superman's story. If someone we to ever ask the question in a Superman story>"Has there ever been a dude that dressed up like a clown and terrorised a city?"They would have no choice but to answer >"Yes, he's called the Joker"The same cannot happen with anime.If somebody in Deathnote asked>"Has there ever been a weird monkey guy arrive in the afterlife who travelled along a snake way to find some old master to train under?"Goku does not exist in Deathnote, he did not go to the afterlife in Deathnote, there is no snake way in deathnote.If you don't like the concept of monkey dudes fighting and being brought back to life with magic dragonballs, then you simply don't have to read Dragonball, because that's only in Dragonball.But if you don't like the concept of a dude dressing up as a bat and fighting crazy clowns, then you cannot read anything from DC, because those things are in all of DC's shared universe.
>>155878199Pretty much. I'm not a huge fan of western comics, but modern manga is 70% Clip Studio Paint assets, 30% actual drawings. At least western comics artists draw ALL their stuff.
>>155877666Because it's better than literally any capeshit
>>155879319So finally, to speak of diversity, there are hundreds, thousands probably, of different IP's in manga, many of which under even only a single publisher. They're all different, so different that it's impossible to cross-over them.In comics, there is 1 IP from Marvel, and 1 IP from DC, 2 IP's in total, and they make up at 75% of the market, and that's an historical all time low. That's not very diverse.
>>155878686DC doesn't suck at reprints or pricing.
>>155879419Compacts are a recent thing AnonLook at people in threads over new collected editions, people are amazed DC's finally pulling their weight
>>155879269Comics have been sold in book stores for 40 years now.
>>155877666There's more genres than just superheroes so girls can read romance novels about soccer players and pseuds can read Death NoteThere is zero crossover slop, you can just start at Naruto #1 and end at Naruto #300, even for convulated shit like Gundam and Fate this holds trueImportant: shounenshit is always shounenshit (battle anime for boys about a plucky boytagonist boying around with boypowers) while capeshit has a good 80% chance to be politic pushing slop to demoralize men or some girl's romance fanfic with love triangles and open relationships and characters suddenly being bisexual or asexual
>OP posts direct evidence of manga having a wealth of genres compared to American comics. >The usual East vs West schizos still repeat the "lol manga is just shounen slop" despite the webm clearly having many manga that's not shounen.Threads like these are just predictable.
>>155879091I think it just stumbled into winning animated movie of the year one time and then every new site started reporting nonstop on it
>>155877748pretty much this there is also the easier barrier of entry since you have anime serving as the entry point to a lot of these manga and you can just pick it up right where you left off comics don't have this because of all the continuity, reboots and spin off culture
>>155877666It may surprise you Satan, but most people want to read a story that has an ending unlike comics which are neverending.
>>155879085You literally proved their point anon. There are gaps lol
>>155877748nah, i read stuff because 19 issues in a girl whips her tits out and they post it on twitter, then i read the entire synopsis online and decide if i want to read it from the beginning
>>155879004I make threads like that regularly. I either get a bunch of negativity or crickets. This is what we've got left.
>>155879777lol manga is just shounen slop
>>155879777>manga having a wealth of genres compared to American comics. Huh?
>>155878691> -cartoony kids stuff that's basically related if not descended from stuff like Disney comics, which has no relevance to most people under 40>adult,lurid, somewhat nihilistic or erotic that eschew more exagerrated storytelling and action in favor of more mature storytellingBoth of those can also be found in manga but they are niche stuff. Mature storytelling doesn’t exist at odds with proper action or paneling that’s a false dichotomy.
>>155880353>psuedo-intellectual pretentious garbagehaha dude lsd lmao
>>155880397Have you read them?
>>155880397I would not call anything related to Megg Mogg & Owl "pseudo-intellectual."It very much knows what it is, and that's what makes it great.
None of you are reading comics or manga anyway.
>>155880353>>155880397I highly recommend True Swamp.
>>155880353Two of those are European, one is Australian. If you don't count Canada, two are Canadian.
>LOL LE EPIC EAST VS WEST THREADScientific studies have provided irrefutable evidence that trolls are extremely severely mentally ill, dopamine addicted sociopaths. https://www.theconversation.com/amp/new-research-shows-trolls-dont-just-enjoy-hurting-others-they-also-feel-good-about-themselves-145931Therefore, each and every single troll both needs, and deserves to be subjected to immediate, involuntary and indefinite institutinalization not only for their own good, but for the greater good of human civilization. Also, trolling is against Global Rule 3, raiding is against Global Rule 4, and spamming is against Global Rule 10.Fulfill your civic duty by reporting this thread as soon as possible and as much as possible, /co/mrades.https://sys.4chan.org/co/imgboard.php?mode=report&no=155877666
I like that American comics are niche desu, yeah it makes the indie stuff hard to talk about but I like being in my own bubble.
>>155880425I read both. Do you?
>>155880474You should make threads about comics you like.
>>155880496Yeah but mainly prefer western I own about 305 books.
>>155880353this is a drop in a bucket compared to manga the fact is 99.99% of American Comics are capeslop and these 12 comics (not particularly good comics either) doesn't change that
>>155880531>>155880531>not particularly good comics eitherA third of those are great.
>>155877666Manga is like a novel. One author with a single story, original characters, and a singular vision.Whereas capeshit is a fucking mess of slop from random authors making unoriginal stories about established characters.
>>155879442They always has good prices on a high number of pages.
>>155880531Just say you hate comics and move on then, we get it you don't belong on /co/ go to /a/ then.
>>155877666>Manga tells stories that people might want to read in a large variety of genres and styles across the board.>Comics are a medium for a writer who hopes to level up to film script writing some day, to used as a soap box to preach their specific type of politics and values to the huddled masses about inclusion, race, diversity, complaints about capitalism, and LGBT topics.>While at the same time almost never ever shows a hero in costume or fighting a villain, the drama and preaching important topics is first and foremost. >These messages are brought to you through a character that has existed in never ending limbo for the last 65 years. nothing new will happen, just endless same fucking 1960s characters forever and ever and ever and ever. Editors will kill any later created character so we can have the eternal Silver Age.
>>155877748Also every popular manga has a near 1:1 anime adaptation which is usually what hooked the audience in the first place whereas popular cape media while it often steals ideas from the comic or even uses the same titles they're too different to make an effortless switch from one to the other.
>>155880461Feeling good about yourself is a healthy thing thoughbeit
>>155880425Wrong, I'm almost finished with Dorohedoro and Candy & Cigarettes, then I'm moving on to J<->M and finishing up Ender Geister and EVOL since I'm like 20 chapters behind on the current TLs for that.I also need to finish up the Usagi Yojimbo stuff I was reading, I think I ended off around the 1st TMNT crossover, or a little bit after that.
>>155880571>every popular manga has a near 1:1 anime adaptation We're just lying now?
>>155880571>every popular manga has a near 1:1 anime adaptation
>>155880590>>155880627you can quibble, but you know he's mostly correct
It's amazing how /co/ falls for the same East vs West thread everything.This place is hopeless, no wonder it is considered the lowest IQ board.
>>155880433Honestly, a lot of "alternative" comics are made by non-Americans, it's just that some of them happen to live in America.
>>155880712They let other comic threads die while replying to this one.
>>155877771>DC and Marvel ran their publishing like cigarette manufacturers.That's an excellent analogy. Yes, they leaned harder and harder to juice their shrinking fanbase and anyone from the outside trying to look in would be disgusted and turn to literally anything else. Manga happened to be the cheap and exceptionally easy to get into alternative.
98% of non-cape comics are just talking heads textwalling you with the most boring prose and garbage ''story''.
East vs West threads suck.The first issue is the discussion is more like Shonen vs DC and Marvel.The second issue is you overestimate how popular reading manga is. The anime community is full of larpers that don't read, only watch the anime. Sometimes they just watch tiktok edits. Manga is more successful but lets not get crazy here, literacy is still dying.The third issue is this notion that reading DC and Marvel is hard. There are many reading orders and guides out there. Even if you skip comics characters love to give summaries about past events. Comics are made to be easy to understand for children that are just picking one up to read.Ultimately the success of manga can be attributed to anime, and that is one weakness comics have. They don't get straightforward animated adaptations. There are many Spider-Man cartoons but none of them are quite 616 Peter. Absolute Batman is getting one so who knows, maybe that is beginning to change.
>>155881133This. Whenever someone tells you to read non-capeshit it's always something like this.I really don't give a shit about this, I want to read something cool.
>>155881375like wooo it's sooo deep, look how deep it is.
>>155881389
>>155878279HulkGAWD....I kneel.....
>>155881402And if you disagree with this, why don't you go ahead and a noncapeshit western comic that you actually think is good. And I mean the actual interior pages, covers aren't comics
>>155881424post a noncapeshit* typoand bonus points if you can post something that you geniunely believe is as cool as pic related
>>155881402What comic is this?
>>155881450>Posts capeshit but Japan.Please care about Bleach
>>155881451Mister Morgen by Igor Hofbauer
>>155881424This stuff isn't for kids.
>>155877748Fourth post best post. I didn't even get into cape comics until very recently, while I've been reading manga for years.
>>155877666god I hate USians so much its insane
>>155877748Even if you could pick up at a western comic at issue 1 and it meant it. Nobody would, because they're shit
>>155880798That is the unfortunate reality. Most would rather fall for bait for hours than actually post anything they like.
>>155882190t. USraeli
>>155877831>Of course you aren’t seeing Manga
>>155879252>>155879319Honestly, I do think Marvel & DC's shared universes have a lot to answer for when it comes to limiting storytelling. Not only does a writer have to factor in the other heroes existing, they have to factor in events and stories written by other writers in the same continuity. If each title simply existed in its own universe which was able to be different and unique I think it would open up a lot more opportunities. I know it's decades of tradition at this point, but if I were put in charge of either I'd be tempted to just blow the whole thing up and start again: Cap goes back to his own WWII universe, Spidey exists in his own contemporary NYC, Batman gets to exist in his own gothic noir dystopia, Supes gets a '50s inspired americana world etc.
For me it is the constant change of artists. You can't make five fucking issues with one creative team? I am not paying for that.
>>155877666>>155877723>>155877748>>155877756>>155877771Not even 10 post and not a correct answer.>>155877702Guy is the only one that kinda understand it.Even before manga started to have a boom in America, comics were basically relegated into specialized stores that took a big hit in the middle of the 90's.Also if wasn't for a autist obsessed with manga in the early 2000's, manga probably would never had this chance to cover the bookstore market.
>>155882722Limitation can breed creativity... but it can also be just limiting. Some dumbass writer in the 90's making Spiderman do something stupid that now every writer after him has to clumsily write around it isn't interesting, it's just a mess. And every retcon dilutes the integrity of the canon. Most comics today have no meaningful canon at all, meaning nothing holds any weight.
>>155882722I think that's why alternate universe stuff like Absolute hit better. It, ideally, should be a self contained story cut away from the decades and decades of shit that came before it that is allowed to experiment more and do things freely.
>>155877666Comics are not made for anyone younger than 45.
>>155882832>Some dumbass writer in the 90's making Spiderman do something stupid that now every writer after him has to clumsily write around it isn't interesting, it's just a mess. It's why I can't enjoy 2000s Green Lantern. You can't come back from mass murder and you can't come back from a loved one getting fridged. Seeing Hal and Kyle cope with and heal from their experiences in the 90s was not nearly good enough.
>>155881150>The anime community is full of larpers that don't readso is the comic community
>>155877748>You pick up a manga and it says issue 1 and it means it.Yeah, try that with 21st Century Boys without reading 20th Century Boys, you fucking retard>>155879287>As someone who tried really getting into comics in the 10s, this is how I got tired of it.You didn't actually try. All the guides and reading orders have been available online since the mid-2000s, and Marvel itself has published their official reading orders for collected editions back in the 2010sAlso, see picrel you retarded mangatards, it's literally THAT easy
>>155877666people physical media?
>>155883532>Yeah, try that with 21st Century Boys without reading 20th Century Boyswow a sequel series that's totally hard to keep track off and totally the same as comics jumping all over the place and rebooting a bunch of alt universes and even reusing the same titles at times, what an absolute retard you are
>>155883580>wow a sequel series that's totally hard to keep track off and totally the same as comics jumping all over the place and rebooting a bunch of alt universes and even reusing the same titles at times, what an absolute retard you areWith comics, I can buy a random issue of Batman by Fraction and instantly get into the story, even if I don't get all the references to previous issues and other Batman runs. But if I have to go to Wikipedia to find out that I need to read 20th Century Boys before I can read 21st Century Boys, then I lose all interest. Also, almost all manga is black and white and very Japanese-coded. In contrast, almost all American comics, aside from some indies, are colorful and similar to American cultural code, and I don't have to google every 5 minutes to find out who or what the fuck Momotaro or anything like that is.
>>155880311>This is what we've got left.You sound like a fucking faggot
>>155881150> The anime community is full of larpers that don't read, only watch the anime.Majority of Manga readers are japanese. Only now they are starting to push to appeal to external markets and that’s because of the decreasing population of japan. Larpers are a problem caused by the pandemic is not fair to compare them to the original otakus that learned a whole new language to put subtitles in a obscure OVA and share in some corner of the internet with their friends.
>>155883532>All the guides and reading orders have been available online since the mid-2000sThe fact that there needs to be guides or reading orders is the problem. The interest in comics is so low that even a minor roadblock like that is way too much. Especially when any number of random manga first volumes are available at so many stores by comparison.
>>155878993>Storytimes are largely shitAre you that same jackass who complains when /co/ Anons like comics you don't personally approve of and meet your arbitrary standards?
>>155883532If I've already read 90% of Superman comics by knowing he's an alien raised in Kansas then why should I read a single comic?
>>155883532>>155883686>>155883580JUSTDONTRECOMMENDCAPESHITThe connotation is poison and there are multiple people who'd read more comics if they actually knew about variety there is and how to easily access itWhen someone gets into Scott Pilgrim you don't recommend them BatmanThese people know what Batman is already and they've already decided if they like him or not
New blood new blood new blood.
>>155883706>If I've already read 90% of Superman comics by knowing he's an alien raised in Kansas then why should I read a single comic?You shouldn't. No one is forcing you to read them if you don't want to. Likewise, no one is forcing me to spend my time on manga when I know I get more joy from reading comics. Even if modern comics aren't as good as those from the 1950s and 1960s, I still enjoy them more than any manga. I do enjoy some Euro stuff, though, British too.
>>155883706>If I've already read 90% of Superman comics by knowing he's an alien raised in Kansas then why should I read a single comic?...for entertainment?
>>155877666Manga recently has had better fan service, better writing and is actually positively pushed.
>>155883750Why are you here?
One thing I've noticed is this.If someone asks me what they should read for Batman? I'm probably gonna start them on Year One by Frank Miller and recommend other tried and true stuffSuperman? I'm gonna say Byrne? Maybe for all seasons or All Star are popular onesPunisher? Garth Ennis runTeen titans? Wolfman-Perez, Johns runX-men? ClaremontSpiderman? Lee and Ditko classic. Romita, Todd MacFarlaneWhat I am saying is that, by design of the current comic book industry, there is literally no incentive to be the guinea pig on the current whatever Batman story for $3.99 an issue when I could just grab what is tried, true, and reviewed.Even if it is good, I can wait for someone else to take the fall on that and get the reviews when it wraps up. Or I can let Tom King blueball me on the Batman/Catwoman weddingAnime/manga isn't just all "one story beginning to end", but any review I'm gonna get is gonna largely be in the context of that full story, with that one writer and one artist.And it's not like westerners are picking up weekly Shounen Jump. We're grabbing tried and true reviewed beloved titles in collections because that's how they're brought over.
>>155883750>Manga recently has had better fan service, better writing>better writingX_to_doubt.jpeg>is actually positively pushed.Yes, by oikophobic Tiktok influencers who hate everything American or Western. For some reason, mostly stupidity, they believe that Japan isn't a first-world country like America. They think shilling manga as an alternative to Western (geographically, not genre) comics will give them some karma points for being pro-diversity or pro-inclusivity or whatever. If there were Nigerian or Congolese comics licensed and published in America, they'd shill those even harder than they shill manga now. Basically, their way of thinking is that America and the West = bad, so everything made in America and the West = bad as well. It's a shame that the modern youth shares this oikophobic attitude, they prefer foreign products to American ones. This problem could have been resolved if Trump had imposed huge tariffs on foreign-made sequential art, I mean, like 1000% or more, then the lack of alternatives would have made zoomers more interested in American comics. Sadly, Trump hasn't done it yet.
>>155883824>Punisher? Garth Ennis runWhich one?>X-men? ClaremontWhich one?
Women scare me
>>155877666Was just at Barnes and Noble the other day and it was just like this. Japan raped our industry hard.
>>155883891Not that anon, but I'll take the bait.>Which one?All of Ennis's Punisher runs/stories are great>Which one?In Claremont's case, all of his X-Men work from 1975 to 1991 is great. His work from the 2000s and later is mid, but some stories are decent if you want more context. For example, the recent Wolverine & Kitty Pryde miniseries is a direct sequel to his 1980s miniseries, Kitty Pryde & Wolverine. The story itself is meh, but it provides more context for their adventures in Japan before they return to the X-Men.
>>155879419They recently got better but they still have a huge problem where all of their collected tanks are just 'greatest hits' shit, like get a DC editor to reprint the 'naturo chuunin exam' in one book and it skips the first exam, has a couple chapters in the forest, and then all the fights in prelims before timeskipping to naruto v neji in the finals.
>>155877666Comics are gay, manga is somehow straighter, despite Yaoi being a thing.
>>155877666there's honestly no way to explain this like you're 6 satanthe downfall of comics has been a generational endeavor>comics are originally sold in common places where people run into like newstands >comics get censored so less variety in genres>years later comics stop getting censored eventually but aren't really sold on newstands anymore, they're sold at specialty shops >people go into specialty shops mostly for ips they already know so there is less growth for things outside of superheroes even if censorship is mostly lifted>publishers understand their main market are obsessive fanboys so they abuse the hell out of them with variant covers, crossover events, and keeping characters stagnant >internet happens so people have even less reason to be buying comics and publishers failed to adapt and appeal to new markets am i missing anything?
>>155877666Capitalism. The companies tried to squeeze every penny out of their IP. Didnt cared for good creatives. But thanks to globalism customers found other ways. And licensing Mangas are cheaper than producing comics, others started to import foreign material.Like capitalism theory says, they didnt compete that well with comics and so lost the shelf race.
>>155884122You forgot they dont care for quality and dont get good creative people anymore.
>>155884082>Comics are gayYou're just choosing to read the gay ones. Most comics are asexual, or even straight af.And maybe it's time for you to come out of the closet because the only reason you'd read gay comics is if you're gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm fine with you folks as long as you're happy and don't try to sleep on my heterosexual bed.
>>155884219I dunno man, for some reason a lot of genres in comics have been "coded" gay.I remember asking for a sports comic and someone unironically recommended me a gay fencing romance comic because apparently if you ask for sports you're actually looking for gay romance masquerading as sports, since apparently that's what the popular sports comics are like these days.
>>155881450
>>155884122>>155884213It's also a massive bottlenecked Good Ol' Boys club that keeps reusing the same people rather than bring in new blood, so the plots, characters and relevance for the modern era stagnates to the point of rotted swamp. Early comic books had a wild array of contributors from across different backgrounds and demographics.
>comics were too influential for children, especially with Xmen. Multiple groups wanted them to die and heavily regulate where comics are sold>western culture is dying in general >Manga is cheaper by default>manga is more diverse>shonen is much more easily catered to 8 year old in the modern era with animals tie-ins. Manga get adaptions all of the time, even niche shit.Tl;DR: Manga is wider.
>>155878528Kek
>>155884122Interestingly, I’ve been seeing an increase lately in comic book racks in places like my local convenient stores. It’s kinda charming. But at $6 for a floppy, I still don’t just casually pick one up on a whim alongside my coffee. Even when they cost ten cents, that was like two bucks in today’s money. Which I guess two bills is the new pocket change. They’re not printed pn flimsy literal pulp paper anymore with runny ink so they just can’t charge less I suppose. But that’s still just one more modern problem vs golden age success.
>>155881450easy.
I went to the mall with my 8 year old nephew and he was more excited for one piece than batman idk I guess comic books don't appeal to children nearly as much. Even I feel like I am an outliner who gave a shit about comic books until getting annoyed with them.
>>15587766690% of people who buy manga just watch the anime instead and collect the books on the side
>>155877666Where is this Barnes and Noble with like six shelves of manga?Everywhere I've been to it's two or three at the most.
>>155878104What an unbelievably ironic post
>>155877748Yep.I remember trying to get into comic books when I was younger, around 13-15. Bought a few Batman and Spiderman comics, read them, and all I can remember is being confused the entire time. People talked, things happened, and I finished all three of them, but it felt like I had to do years' worth of supplemental writing to "get" what the fuck I just read. Actually, I looked through my bookshelf and found them just now. Superman/Superman: Enemies Among Us (heh), and Spider-Man's Tangled Web. Even looking through them now, I still can't tell what the fuck is going on. Spiderman doesn't even appear until halfway into it.
>>155881389This shit looks cool though unironically
>>155878730Yes, yes (you) are.
Comics are not even a convenient size or shape. I have a section of bookshelf with manga because they’re paperback novel sized. I have to keep most of my comics in a box because they’re too tall and they don’t even stand or display well on a regular bookshelf. And forget about carrying them around in a bag or pocket to read on the subway or whatever.
>>155885347>I have a section of bookshelf with manga because they’re paperback novel sized.You can thank Tokyopop for that.
>>155882772>>155877702All me btw and I'm a biracial genderqueer sex worker who loves Big Black Cock and lolicon, and that matters.
>>155885358Oh i have.
>>155877666The industry catered to boomers and refuse to grow by acquiring more fans and more importantly potential customers. When the industry finally decided that the aging boomers can no longer carry them financial, they attempted to cater to the younger generation in hopes of acquiring more fans/potential customers. This alienated the boomers that were financially carrying the industry. The industry quickly pivoted and went back to catering to the boomers.Comic books also have a certain stigma to them. Public perception of a comic book fan is generally that of a nerd and loser.And for fan that's currently/previously read comic books, you will potentially lose interest in the medium due to status quo and recycled stories/origin stories.
>>155885347I really do think that the whole way of comics needs to be changed from the top down. People talk about continuity and starting points and that's an issue, but ultimately the format of manga size, more pages and less panels just is more convenient.
>>155878279>>155881414>>155878354>>155885323>>155878557All me, and I am a mixed-race genderqueer Jewish queen who likes Big Black Cock and lolicon.
>>155885036we're pretty much far to gone as a culture to really bring back comics at the convenient store americans only drive from place to place so the idea of being able to casually read a comic on your way to work obviously isn't a thing people couldn't be convinced to spend that much money on a magazine not just because of phones but because the idea of spending money regularly on comics isn't something your average person will do
>>155878571>Yeah it's called movies.No that's retarded. Not even sports movies feel like sports manga. A sports manga will deliberately slow down the action to make every little action more exciting. Sports movies are more interested in the real life replication and at best will do some slow motion. But they don't draw you into the action and the players head at the moment like manga does.
>>155885417They’re also black and white and that’s gotta be cheaper.One of my favorite things about vintage comics are their colors, but even I gotta admit that’s just one more practicality mangas have got a leg up on.
The subscription model could and should work, but it gets very little advertising and there would need to be a strong pivot to what people in their twenties might actually want to read, rather than be a vehicle for aged boomers to hold on for dear life the silver age as long as possible.
>>155885495I think people right now are suffering from subscription fatigue. Ten or twenty years ago would have been the time to get young people hooked on subscribing to comics. Now everything is a subscription and it’s gotten so bad we have apps for deleting old ones.
>>155885495comic stores basically have you on a subscription this is something that could have worked a 2 decades ago, not todaythe problem with subscriptions is as anon said, fatiguebut also it bottle necks certain kinds of stories and lets bad ones piggy back off good ones, no real account for quality you also aren't gonna get something that is truly boldly written because comics don't really work to find good voices which is mostly because anyone good knows comics aren't worth it and publishers are chicken shit due to social media
>>155885495Didn't Marvel just shut down one of their subscriptions so they could replace it with Webtoon?
>>155877666Multiple generations of Americans have grown up not giving a shit about comics and comics having a ton of cultural baggage. You could create a genuinely great series and no one would give a shit.
>>155877666>>155877993gyatt
All the talk of distribution problems is such a cope.Can you name a single other product on this planet that struggles simply because they can't get their product infront of people?Perhaps fish in the 1500's to people living inland before the invention of refrigeration.It's fucking paper, how can you screw this up>they're not buying comics because they can't find themBullshit, they're not buying comics because they don't want to buy them.Try making a product people actually want
>>155877842Even in France the kids prefer mangahttps://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/arts/france-culture-pass.html
>>155877666>Overstock of manga>Only niggers read that shitThere's your answer OP. Maybe you're just black.
>>155885745Marvel right now is slowly releasing the Wells run of ASM on Webtoon to a predictable response because they are actually fucking self-sabotaging, as compared DC which has got a serious hit on its hand with a Webtoon original made for the platform.
It doesnt help bookstores never seem to carry a lot of cool or engaging comics unless their evergreen trades. All the good comics I've read in the past years had zero marketing while the newest gay POC autobiography or shitty snarky D&D ripoff sits around collecting dust.
>>155882722>>155882832I think that having a shared cannon is cool, but just letting everything go into it unless stated otherwise leads to a lot of garbage sticking around.But a cultivated continuity, ideally by a competent EIC, that can be drawn from the highest quality stories over a given period, can provide a cool and fun foundation.
>>155886042>is slowly releasing the Wells run of ASM on Webtoon to a predictable response because they are actually fucking self-sabotagingIt's what they get for letting a bitter divorcee spend his entire run humiliating their flagship character
>>155886046Yea, it's insane how my local B&N will have an entire section of manga that's full of action, dark fantasy, and softcore porn (in both gay and straight varieties, and also sometimes some actual legit loli smut) yet the GNs they carry are all cape comics or faggy, lame, gay autobiographies about a black tranny or George Takei's gay memoir where he talks about sucking dick at summer camp.
>>155877806I got LNs for Youjo Senki at Barnes and Noble a couple years ago and while there is a lot of shounen and a lot of the stuff I like isn't translated, there is still some decent variety.
>>155879326There is such sheer volume and such easy search tools for manga that it is a breeze to find what you want. There is no place to find comics but to bait people on here. I still have a thread open from when I had to do that very thing
>>155878462I like weeb stuff and MiA is okay but it reuses the same tropes too much.Over the Garden Wall is more like Shoujo Shuumatsu where two people travel around a mostly empty world/wilderness and find the occasional interesting thing to interact with
>>155879004Whether you want to admit it or not, the Western entertainment industry is in a dire spot right now. It's really hard to ignore the elephant in the room at this point, and people are just sick of how inauthentic a lot of Western entertainment really is. There really is a lack of passion and quality in every medium, comics are just the worst off.
>>155885955Comics are usually too expensive and honestly not worth buying.
>>155885222I mean, you’re probably justified. But I would feel like maybe I deserved to be confused if I picked up something titled Tangled Web and just jumped in.
>>155877666manga is a good story while cape comics are corpo approved stories that try to meet specific bullet points and demographics they are not the same
>>155886367I think you’ve misunderstood what an internment camp is.
All these threads prove are two consistent facts:1. Capeshit fags are part of the problem.2. If you took the average capeshit fag and did EXACTLY what they suggested to "fix" the US comic market it is guaranteed that whatever they suggested would make it worse.
>>155877666If you tell people you don't want their business for an entire decade, they will take their business elsewhere. It really is just that simple
>>155885120That's British.
>>155877666The Japanese, including business boys, have a culturally ingrained respect and honor of artisanry/craftsmanship that predisposes their publishers to somewhat distance themselves from the creative process, they see their part largely to simply find winners and promote them.Americans only culture is capitalism, doubly so for business boys. Thus publishers only concept of how to operate is to firmly direct the use of their property and hire wage labor creators to produce like factory machines, a single element of the product and leave the big ideas to their executives and board.
>>155878279Thank you Hulk KING
>>155886767He was getting laid and experimenting with his latent faggotry, that's the quintessential summer camp experience. He just didn't get to go home at the end of the summer.
>>155877666Manga appeals and caters to straight males while comics despise them. Besides, western comics are nothing but the writers’ soapboxes.
>>155878993/shelf/ dying so fast now breaks my heart, right when I'm getting into comics.
>>155883653What you hear is your own voice.
>>155877748This. Superhero shit is resetting all the time or running in different timelines/different main stories by different authors. Its hard to get into compared to a manga thats just numbered clearly '1 to whatever number' and is meant to be read in that order.
>>155878558There’s plenty of series that have never been reprinted. Only the most popular shounen slop gets constant reprints m. So of course you think reprints are frequent
>>155878686>People complain all the time that Marvel/DC suck at reprinting their back catalogMarvel/DC have back catalogs that cover almost 90 years at this point. It’s absolutely impossible to keep everything in print all the time.>BUT MUH FIRST ISSUESThey do semi-regularly put out new collections of that stuff. Just not every single year because they don’t actually sell that well. 99% of people are not that interested reading dated writing with simplistic art from 1930s or 1960s.
>>155877748Also Western puritan culture seethes at boobies, unlike based Manga.
>>155880548And it’s singular shit with terribly written nothingburger endings so what is the point of reading them
>>155882722>BUT MARVEL AND DCIt’s amazing how people don’t read anything and then prey they’re experts on comics
>>155887971t. retard who only reads shounen shit, and even shitty endings are still better than letting things to devolve to the current state of spider-man
HahahaIt feels so good to be an /a/ime and M/a/nga fan.It’s over for the westcucksGreat and Honorable J/a/pan and Asia have won the culture war.With the paramount-warner merger into skydance and the future extinction of boomers and millennials, west*id (((animation))) and comics will end up in the dustbin of history.
>>155888008>Reposted plenty of times>But with a "m" at the endYou're not even trying, faggot. https://desuarchive.org/co/search/image/4mNMw79ez-IVa_f-E7_1SA/
>>155883580Why do you fucking dipshits keep lying that all you can read is superheroes? How fucking stupid are you?
>>155878279You are PALE as a SNOW..
>>155888192He's a deathbattlefaggot. He's brown like shit.
There are good battle shonenshit manga and there are good capeshit comics. You fags need to get over yourselves. You're still manchildren no matter what you read.
>>155883824>there is literally no incentive to be the guinea pig on the current whatever Batman story for $3.99 an issue when I could just grab what is tried, true, and reviewed.So what. There is literally 87 years worth of Batman comics to choose from. Nobody is telling you that you absolutely have to just buy single issues and keep up with the latest releases. What are you, a fucking sheep who can’t read anything except what’s the newest thing because others are doing that? If you’re that insecure then just buy it in trade, you moron.>Anime/manga isn't just all "one story beginning to end", but any review I'm gonna get is gonna largely be in the context of that full story, with that one writer and one artist.Yeah except that doesn’t work at all unless the entire series is done. And tons of manga has completely shitty, multiple volumes long arcs and people will sometimes even say that you should skip certain of them.>Or I can let Tom King blueball me on the Batman/Catwoman weddingOr you can get blueballed for 20+ volumes because the mangaka will not commit to letting its main romantic couple get together or the big ending just blueballs you further by not actually delivering any type of proper resolution.
>>155885151Or you know. Maybe it’s the culture. Western culture is still dismissive of comics, but thinks manga is cool because it’s different and slightly exotic
>>155885347>I NEED COMICS TO BE SMALLER BECAUSE BIGGER ART IS BAD, I NEED EVERYTHING SHRUNKEN DOWN
>>155887997Every single thread about this shit shows people here just read shounen
>>155883824>What I am saying is that, by design of the current comic book industry, there is literally no incentive to be the guinea pig on the current whatever Batman story for $3.99 an issue when I could just grab what is tried, true, and reviewed.the problem is how the fuck is this even an option. what the fuck did comics industry do to itself that someone can walk up to a person asking about one piece and say "trust me bro just pick up and read alabasta and water 7, and then skip to the fight with doffy and read WCI" and the rest of the community just nods their heads instead of calling him a retard.
>>155888496If you want to read Batman there’s nearly 90 years worth of published material to choose from. You can take your pick on what interests you. Why is it always the argument that comic readers are mouth breathing mongoloids who need to be spoonfed and held by the hand and can’t do anything without someone guiding them the whole time? How is it different from there being bazillion Gundam, Fate/whatever, Cyborg 009, Devilman, GTO, Dragon Ball, Captain Harlock, Lupin III, Naruto, spinoff and sequels etc. where you as a novice can’t tell what you should be reading/watching.
>>155877666Yo is that the Books a Million in Goldsboro?
>>155877666> Manga people get published based on talent, American comics based on nepotism > Manga make stories based on how good they are, American comics make political propaganda in the hopes they can socially engineer people> All manga can be collected from start to finish, American comics are scattered and why you to just jump around like you're watching old out of order reruns in syndication on T.V.> When you point any of these things out American comic people have a conniption and tell you it's impossible to do the thing that everyone else does despite everyone else doing it like you just asked your boss if the company has ever thought about offering pensions to their employees.
>>155877723/Thread
>>155877756> We're democratizing comics> No, you don't get a say in what we make and we don't care what you want. A faceless individual has decided on the one and only product you'll ever be able to consume.
>>155877806One of the most popular currently running Shonen stories in the most popular manga magazine in the world (Shonen jump) is about a girl practicing on becoming a professional verbal storyteller.
>>155888564>If you want to read Batman there’s nearly 90 years worth of published material to choose from.No real beginning or end, though. But really, what you're not understanding is that most people like consuming closed-end narrative media, things that have a definite set beginning and end, prequels, sequels, and other cash-in bullshit notwithstanding. Batman simply has too many goddamned comics (and media), spread across 87 years and counting. It's such a saturated whore of a franchise, with all the different interpretations, reinterpretations, elseworlds, updates, retreads, etc. How many Batman #1s are there? How many Year Ones? All those Japanese things you mention, with the possible exception of Fate, have very definite start and end points.
>>155877819All comic stores carry manga and usually have more than American comics at this point
>>155877814>>155877819>>155877831Heh. https://maps.app.goo.gl/dcEQXv7pAQ5sDzXM7
test
>>155878246There was more genre diversity under the CCA then there is now. Remember when Patsy Walker was a spice of life shoujo romcom?
>>155888227Actually, he has proven that he is white in bant threads.
>>155888840>Muh end! I need muh end!Oh shut the fuck up. Lupin III has no end. Golgo 13 has no end. You’ll be lucky if Hunter x Hunter ever manages to get an actual ending. They keep making new Doraemon anime all the time. >most people like consuming closed-end narrative mediaNo they fucking don’t. People bitch and get sad all the time when a series ends.>There’s too much Batman!There’s too much One Piece and Inuyasha, etc. Nothing but useless filler and series going in forever for no good reason.And all those examples keep getting sequels, prequels, spinoffs, etc. so they haven’t actually ended, have they. Lupin III has no clear start, middle or end, you lying cocksucker. Instead it keeps getting new stuff all the time by various different creators and is very popular.
>>155888914Lupin III and Goglo 13 don't really have continuity that matters, though. You can pick up any given issue of Goglo 13 and get a complete story. Lupin might have an overarching story per part, but they'll forget about that in the next part, plus you can always watch a movie or an OVA.
>>155888952I thought people always want a clear ending, but now it’s just about continuity? My oh my how the goalposts move
>>155888564one piece has been running for 30 years, as a weekly. there are about 1200 issues. it is about a third of the size of collected batman (including runs like worlds finest + brave and bold etc that star batman alongside other characters, not counting runs like solo nightwing or birds of prey that do not star other characters but feature batman). the gap is not as big as you think.
>>155889083If I have to wait over thirty years for a series to end, it’s not worth it.
>>155888914I didn't notice Lupin, but the others were not in your original list, goalpost mover. My point stands.People get sad when things end and angry when they end badly because they invest so much time, energy, hopes, and dreams into them. Thank you for reinforcing my point.One Piece is one manga by one author, and it will purportedly end. The adaptations are secondary material, and they still stick relatively close to the source. Batman has many authors, many origins, many everything else in the comics alone. These are not one-to-one comparison in the slightest.
>>155877666It is a mystery...
>>155888360I can’t browse the sistine chapel on my way to work either.
>>155880566Once again I regret bothering to decipher the fine print.
>>155889443Your point isn’t true at all when there’s numerous examples of popular manga franchises that keep getting sequels and spinoffs and prequels. So there clearly isn’t an issue when things “don’t end” which you singlehandedly claim is why comics suck. If people only wanted endings then why do people flock to James Bond movies? Why aren’t short lives indy comics dominating superhero comics then?
/co/ has to be the most cucked board imaginable. You would never see /a/ have this much self loathing about it's medium.
>>155880566Then why do people just read shounen slop? Why do you fucks always just talk like all there is is superheroes and hyperfixate on them? Is it because you know you’re full of shit or are you so stupid that you can’t understand that the market clearly keeps preferring superheroes over independent short lived singular creative team comics?
>>155888158These threads are always so depressing. Hundreds of replies acting as if the only comics made outside Japan are Marvel & DC capeshit, every time.
>>155877666Nips are more creative and just write better stories on average, that's it.Because of it they have more novelty and on top of that they have that "exotic taste" to the western reader.If you have an original idea that no comic has done before, chances are that a manga with that idea already exists.Also nips writers have much less limitations on what to write.This my theory at least.
>>155889575because the jannies there actually ban retarded faggots
>>155880353It feels like most indie/alternative comics are just depression or angst stories.
>>155889697people keep falling for the “write what you know” advice
>>155889634>Nips are more creativeYeah, countless isekai and “what if high concept setting/premise but all they still do is mundane slice of life stuff like cooking or eating chips”. Oh and of course “what if x but the main character is a little girl”.
>>155889697Says someone who clearly doesn’t read much
Anime and Manga gave pre-teen boys what they actually want in media (fast-paced fight scenes and softcore porn)
>>155889708Every industry has low effort slop, I was talking about orignal ideas.
>>155889575People do complain on /a/ but /co/ is worse because the situation is worse. For /a/ there is so much manga and anime that you can just not read the isekai slop and there is so much every season that there are at least a couple decent shows every year. For western comics and animation you can't ever really escape capeshit and the low output for media in general means there just isn't a widely available selection.
>>155889799Why don't you just sign up to be a janitor at this point?
>>155877666Far less limitationsNo censorshipHundreds of hungry creatives (go nagai and ken ishikawa are fathers of piloted super robot and transforming combiner super robots)Privately owned series so you could have accidental sci fi existential epics (ken ishikawa verse,its all about ultimate weapon inhabited by sentient energy god who will fight psychopathic existence destroyer in getter robo)Self contained market untill 2010s Far less gay leftie shit and where it was it was sweetened by something so cool you forgot gay bullshitHundreds of genres and micro genres with audience for eachEvery series can be started at issue and if its rebooted you dont have to read previous series cause it wont merge into oneFar less primadonnas like omd crewBut most importantly ?Better artist who will litteraly fucking die to make art in "I was reincarnated as toilet in dark elf village" look like mona lisaNot to mention fandom and memesHave you heard of wolf guy and rape namek ?You never had a homefield advantage because japs won over hearts of asia and then europe and now they are coming for your assMiddle east still doesnt know how to read so they dont care
>>155889816So does marvel pay you or do you do it for free ?
>>155889781>For western comics and animation you can't ever really escape capeshit Every single week you can read something that isn’t superheroes and isn’t published by Marvel/DC. The problem is your laziness
>>155889821>No censorshipLOLLMAO
>>155889923If I may refer you to my first point in this thread >>155886472It's not even about laziness, it's just that if you want a good story it's way easier to just look for weeb stuff. Much less hoops to jump through and you can find something you like way easier. People don't think "gee I want to read a comic that has to be western" they think "gee I want to read or see a good story" anime/manga is simply more accessible and has more volume. Blame the shitty western entertainment industry for being so fucking closed off and recycling the same characters, artists, writers, and properties since fucking WW2.Even on /co/ people barely talk about anything that isn't mainstream capeshit or cartoons that aired a decade ago. Comparatively, /a/ gets threads on niche shit fairly often, that just isn't the case for /co/. There simply isn't output, there isn't exposure, there isn't an easy way to go through tags on one site, and there isn't creativity/variety. /co/ in general is on life support because the quality and appeal is so low. I literally have to make bait posts to get recs that aren't the usual shit, I actually still have a thread open from when I did that because no one talks about them otherwise, not that there are many interesting things to begin with, I only got like 2 and a half things that sparked any vague interest for me. On manga dex or just poking around /a/ I could find way more way faster.
>>155889982It is about laziness. You want everything to be delivered to your lap and then whine that western comics are bad because they don’t do that. It is not at all easier to browse through seas of generic shit in weeb world trying to find something interesting. Even when you find something that sounds possibly good 8/10 it’s fucking boring or you read an entire volume and it’s so bland that you can’t tell if it’ll ever get better or not. Or it starts okay and then 3-4 volumes in it becomes clear the writing wasn’t up to the task of doing anything with the potential of the set premise yet it will keep going for 20 more volumes
>>155889927It's definitely funny when a lot of people complain that modern anime is too censored compared to the manga usually.But even then it's still lightyears ahead of the west, I can't remember the last time I saw a woman character who I didn't think was annoying, a bitch, completely morally vacant, or some combination of the 3.
>>155890036>You want everything to be delivered to your lap and then whine that western comics are bad because they don’t do thatThe point is why would you jump through those hoops unless you autistically hate manga/anime? There is nothing about /co/ shit that makes it """better""" than /a/ shit. So if it's easier to find /a/ shit what is the benefit in spending much longer dragging your dick through broken glass to read 1 comic that you might not even like? Also skill issue, I can tell if I'm going to like something very early on most of the time. The issue is that most /co/ shit doesn't spark the imagination for me. 99% of it is shit I have zero interest in like urban fantasy, or retarded fart huffing pseudo intellectualism, or capeshit, or a "subversion" on one of those. Either that or they just insert gay modern fads into the setting. It's just fucking tiresome seeing the same allegories for Nazis and Capitalism in everything. I would kill for more stuff like Bone that is just a nice fantasy story with no hamfisted cheesy bullshit tacked on, but like it or not that is hard as fuck to find. For /a/ shit you can literally just filter out genres like isekai you hate, it's not so easy with /co/
>>155890085Also a lot of western shit feels really cynical like the author only made it to push a narrative. It feels like barely anything gets made just for fun
Does he not realize this crashout only makes him look desperate and sad?
>>155877666Manga is cheaper and has different stories. Comics are all about superheros.
>>155890038Maybe you’re just a misogynist if you think manga/anime do female characters better
>>155890328Maybe you're just retarded.
>>155877666What do burgers even have besides capeshit? I only read The Walking Dead.
>>155890358They have comics that aren’t superheroes. Maybe you should try reading them.
>>155879287>Nothing matters to the world or the characters, it's just endless random events piling on top of each other.That's the reason why American comics are on life support, but it wasn't always like that. The "world shattering events" that didn't amount to anything trend started in the early 00s; now we see characters dying, even entire universes perishing, to have them back in less that six months, ready for the next big drama that won't have, again, any repercussions.My best advice is to try to break free from American comics books and check things coming out of England, Argentina, France, etc. If you truly want to read superhero stories, choose an author, a run, an anthology, some self-contained story or parallel story (Batman Vampire, Punisher Max, etc.), otherwise you will end up stuck in an endless loop.
>>155877666>666I see you Satan.But to answer you: Manga isn't trying to sell me the same tired old capeshit stories but repackaged to sell me a cringe ideaology whose foundational premise is I'm the problem with everything and need to be erased, from schools of art that love to try and force ugly aesthetics and character designs down my throat because the thought of drawing attractive people causes their stitches to pop. Even the tired old manga genres are selling something that the market has discovered people want.In manga there's something for everyone. In Westoid comics there's a lecture and eyesores. If you want to sell shit, find the market. Fertilizer factories, the agricultural sector is an obvious avenue to investigate.But stocking shit on bookshelves is always going to struggle to find its buyers.
>>155888840> How many Year Ones?Just the one.
>>155888840Fate has a clearly defined starting point everyone will point you towards if you ask where to start. Read the VN.
>>155890871I started with /extra because it was like the only thing that had been translated into English at one point lol.
>>155890085you could probably spend years just reading conan the barbarian and tarzan slop comics from the 60s lol. there's no drought of fantasy comics. like the other anon said, it's a you problem for not putting the bare minimum effort into finding something you'll enjoy.
The "mods" and "janitors" don't care about the quality of this board, or any board on this website. They want to bring in as many anarchistic, sociopathic, intellectually regressive subhuman troglodytes as possible so that they can make money off of them through ad revenue and because they're under direct orders from hiroyuki and rapeape to do so. Furthermore, if you use the report function against those aforementioned "people" and their shitty, rule breaking threads and posts and encourage others to do the same in order to help improve a board, you get rangebanned from reporting and posting.The only possible way to salvage 4chan is by a changing of the guard, and since they refuse to step down willingly, they must be removed forcefully.Desperate times call for desperate measures, therefore each and every single mod needs to be doxxed, hunted down, and murdered.With the April 14th 2025 hack, all of their personal information has now become common knowledge. All that remains is for a martyr to make the sacrifice.
>>155889697And even then manga does misery porn better
>>155890397Are they any good?
>>155877666>no black weeaboo gf to go manga shopping withWhy'd you have to do this to me Satan?
>>155878279>Hulk>CoolBruh, he's a gary stu on par with superman.
>>155890981>there's no drought of fantasy comics.There is no war in the western comic industry.
>>155891089nigga are you being for real or are you just baiting for recs because you can just make a thread asking for some
Don't most modern (let's be blunt, most of it with any exposure is superhero stuff) comic writers just spend their time making stories reflecting their frustration towards other cape stories, wether it's criticizing the genre itself or attacking a specific status quo the writer doesn't like?Eventually so much concentrated resentment is going to bleed out into the audience. But they won't respond by commiting themselves to subverting a genre they are disillusioned with unlike these gen X writers. They are just going to walk away and find something else.
>>155879348I've been reading Ashita no Joe as these new big hardcover volumes have been coming out and I've got to say I'm shocked a comic this good came out when it did, there was literally nothing like it coming out of the west so I have no idea how it even came into existence
>>155878279KKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNGGGGGulk!!!
>>155879348dude like 90% of the characters in your image are superheroes/villains of some kind. The reality is most manga characters and most comic book characters are exceptional individuals that fight a lot and there's nothing wrong with that but you're being disingenuous if you think manga is that different from comics. All the og manga characters from Devilman to Cyborg 009, Tetsujin 28 and Astro Boy are superheroes lol.
>>155891160This is like saying Gandalf is a superhero because he has powers and fights evil.
>>155877666
>>155891028Yes.
>>155888914>popular franchises getting more entries totally erases the thousands of other finished series
>>155890085>The issue is that most /co/ shit doesn't spark the imagination for me. 99% of it is shit I have zero interest in like urban fantasy, or retarded fart huffing pseudo intellectualism, or capeshit, or a "subversion" on one of thoseYea, my tastes generally just don't align with modern /co/. This board is nothing like what it was like when I discovered stuff like Megg Mogg & Owl, Steve Lichman, Rusty Brown, and Demon here.People these days pretty much only talk about cape comics here.The only non-cape comics I've seen get decent discussion here in recent years is Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees.
>>155891268It does when the weeb argument is always simplistic generalisation >comics suck because too complicated >manga rules because it’s just one single seriesIt’s just as dumb as when people act like everything in the west is just superheroes.
>>155877666>Reason 1Advertisers think that they can convince you to buy anything if you look at their pitch. Therefore to sell stuff they think that they have to put their pitch where many eyes are looking. Hence the F1 cars covered in ads, or the commercial breaks on TV/Youtube, or popup ads. Eventually someone thought to use marketing to promote ideologies as if they were a product. And many eyes were looking at comics. So the advertisers put politics in your funny pages about orphaned men wearing their underpants on the outside. Of course advertisers are narcissistic morons. We buy something because we like it, not because they convinced us. In fact ads drive us away. People weren't patriotic because Batman sent Bat Divers to clear out the mines ahead of the transports on D-Day. This kind of marketing largely fell out of favour after WWII. Until the progressives decided to aggressively market their ideology. Once again comics were swarmed with ads and readers were driven away. And into the arms of manga who were providing the readers with what we wanted out of comics. Entertainment.>Reason 2Many parents want to spoil their kids or for them to be successful. Rich/influential parents are able to do this in more ways. They can force the kid's favourite cartoon to include their oc. Or they can force an industry the kid is interested in to hire them in a high position regardless of talent. Or they can forcefully have their kid head an already successful project to steal valor. Soon it becomes a trend in the social circles of such people and the industry's output goes to shit from the accumulated incompetence, forcing consumers to seek entertainment elsewhere.tl;dr western shit is full of propaganda and nepotism.
>>155891188yes, they both come from the same heroic archetypes. If they aren't then characters like Conan certainly aren't and both DC and Marvel have published literally hundreds of Conan and Tarzan style comics along with war comics about heroic soldiers so there goes the whole argument that there are only superhero comics...
>>155891254You're not trying to trick me, are you?
Ignore anyone saying /pol/ shit like "hurrr anime has tiddies and no blacks in it"This panel remains the most succinct explanation of the problem with the American comic industry I've ever seen.
>>155891325I don't think I've ever heard someone call Conan a superhero.It's just that no one cares much about Conan these days, and sword and sorcery fantasy in general.
>>155891331>words words wordsLeftists can't memeIs the issue that leftists are writing comics? Because that sounds like a good explanation.
>>155891331>I-I'm not writing crap! It is the distribution!If I don't want to buy your crap then it doesn't matter if it is available or not.
Marketing
>>155891373Brave of you to admit you're illiterate.
>>155891403Brevity is the wit of sovl
I know I will get shit for this but I always found Miller's art to be dogshit and his stories nothing home to write about. More like he was at the right place at the right time when the market needed that type of media. Same with Millar.
>>155877748This is part of it, but it's way moreManga: We have a story to tell. We have a vision. We have these characters set up and ready to go, we're going to put them through a plot we set up. We think it's going to be a good storyComics: Well, it's a popular IP so we've gotta do something. We could uh, idk, just think of something real fast. Bring him to another town or, uh maybe he's in space. Other characters? Plot? An idea on where it'll go? Worry about that later I guess, I doubt we'll make it past six. This is more just to keep the IP's name on shelves, don't overthink it.
>>155888914>Lupin III>Golgo 13You've given up your argument by namig such old and irrelevant titles.You'll be lucky to find someone under the age of 40 who even knows what they are, and even luckier if you find someone who's actually into them the same way kids today are into Chainsawman and Demon SlayerLook at this, this right here is the driving force behind pretty much all entertainment media.To say "people like stories that finish/don't finish" is putting the cart before the horseWHO likes those things?Adults don't get into new things in terms of entertainment media, that's a pretty general rule. After the age of 25 or so, people spend the rest of their lives pining for what they had when they were 15. And their numbers dwindle fast as they become preoccupied with life, become more responsible with money, die, etc.Whatever comics chooses to do, if it's not appealing to this exact demographic, kids, it's doomed from the start.Kids today have grown up in an age of on demand streaming, when they watch a tv show they start at episode 1, if you don't give them #1, they won't be interested at all, and you can't force them. Mock them all you like for being lazy, they're just not going to read your comic, and you desperately need them to read your comic.The reason anime and manga are so mainstream today in the west is because 20 years ago they begun appealing to kids in the west, and have continued to do so without stop, and now an entire generation of people love anime.Very few people get into anime as an adult, pretty much everyone started when they were young.
The popularity of mangas just shows how tasteless most consoomers are. Comics mock manga in terms of both art and story, it's just a matter of fact.
>>155891710Well you can enjoy your refined taste all the way to the bankruptcy and death of comics
>>155891409Brevity: soul.
>>155890358We literally have an annual compilation book called The Best American Comics.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_American_Comics
>>155891754>haveHad*
>>155877666>refuse to allow characters to grow or change>break up popular pairings and dynamics for drama>no stakes so nothing matters>constant events that ruin individual stories>allowing fanboys to write and do retarded shit with the characters>not evolving past the floppy format>having to go to specialty shops to get the books Pick one
>>155877795Reprints don't matter as much in the age of online bookstores and piracy
>>155885939It's funny that the only genre of comics that were taken seriously by critics were sob stories written by the author
Are magazines still a thing? Floppies should fit that same niche, you see a comic at Walmart and you beg mom for five bucks or whatever to buy it. I swear all of my Simpsons comics were bought in magazine racks. I have never ever entered a comic shop.
>>155891878It's always some bullshit about generational trauma or how they got molested
>>155891108>there was literally nothing like it coming out of the west so I have no idea how it even came into existenceCopying cinematography and narrative techniques from Japanese and western film
>>155891975Magazines are now $15-20 and often come out bimonthly or seasonal
>>155880712its better than the average cartoon thread
>>155891878Critics are people who think they are so much smarter than we unwashed masses that they should be paid for their opinion. Not only that but they also take money to talk down to us and promote things, thinking we are too dumb to notice. Fuck them.
Quite simply, the /a/rt of /a/nime and M/a/nga is better, excellent, sublime, perfectcompared to west*id trash.
>>155881133And don't forget shitty composition. Like seriously, I get trying to be artsy but>>155881375Why is the smoke going downwards? Why have smoke within the smoke and not use it? >>155881389Why make your page illegible by turning all the storytelling tools of the medium into visual noise? >>155881402Why bother with dynamic angles when all the panels are rigid and static? >>155881424Why show the same mundane action from multiple perspectives? Also, this feels like it is breaking some cinematography rule.
>>155891382Have you even tried getting into comics?
>>155888843So you've never been to an LCS than
>>155892039That's because the average cartoon thread usually involves one of our resident low-functioning autistic schizos.On the comic side we mostly just get schizos on the cape comics side, guys like Gwenschizo and Paulfag. For cartoons, literally every kind of thread you could end up having is going to attract one of the annoying autistic schizos.
>>155887184I don't use /shelf/ because I don't buy much physically and what I do buy is so niche and obscure
>>155887635You fucking stupid idiotThis isn't betterThis is just people who don't know, don't care, and fucking hate comics parading /co/ This is why other boards mock us
>>155888759>American comics are scattered and why you to just jump around like you're watching old out of order reruns in syndication on T.V.You can get into comics and NEVER touch capeshit
>>155892199Ah yes the classic "if you don't agree with me then you don't read comics" argument. Especially popular with progs trying to gaslight people into thinking their politics aren't the problem. I grew up with american, french and british comics of various genres.
>>155891655You never botheredYou never triedPiss off casual
>>155892274Think idiot There are people who think fucking Invincible was made relatively recently and that it's somehow unique for having a beginning, middle, and endinb4 Invincible is overratedThat's not the pointThe point is that there are likely comics people would enjoy but ignorance toward the entire medium cock blocks people who assume it's all decades long established capeshit
>>155890358>The Walking DeadIt's never occurred to you to look up the talent's other works or even the publisher's?
>>155890085>>155889982>>155889781LOCGJust go to LOCG and search around by publisher or new releases until you find something that catches your eyeThat's one of my methods for hidden gem hunting
>>155892315This has nothing to do with distribution. Get back here!
>>155891754>On September 30, 2020, Kartalopoulos announced on Twitter that the series had been discontinued.kek
>>155877666Anime is the main reason why manga is more popular compared to comics. It's not truly about quality (though, Japan definitely has the edge over the American industry) as much as it's about consistency. When you read manga, you don't have to be worried about characters suddenly growing up and being turned into faggots (yeah, I'm still angry about how they ruined Jon and Superman and many others).
>>155892542You are the one who should get banned for spamming.
>>155891710>Comics mock manga in terms of both art and storylmao even you don't believe that
>>155892450Distribution is literally a major reason why a large franchise in comics like Li'l Abner could be made as big as it was and why it could dissolve so rapidly to a near inconceivable degreeMost of the comics I enjoy aren't something you could easily find at an LCS nor didn't have much shelf presence when they were activeAgain, back to InvincibleThe same people who latched onto the comics after the show came out would have likely enjoyed said comics before the show came out to begin with.The distribution problem is real, it's why Bone went from a critical indie darling to an evergreen Scholastic title because Jeff Smith managed to bypass the direct market entirely
>>155892274I mean I'd sooner trust a comic non-reader over a comic reader about if comics are good or not. Slop eaters have zero standards.
>>155892756What have you read?
>>155891683I'm under 30 and I like both lol. I love old shit.
>>155892331>look up other works>it's capeshitNo, thanks
>>155892756I mean, they seem can be said about manga. You want to convince me that OP and DC are still good after 1000 issue? Come on. >>1558925What they did to Jon should really be studied. It's amazing how they ruined their most popular new character in decade. I would have tolerated him being aged up if only they didn't turn him into token gay for pride issues.
>>155890797>Batman: Year One>Oracle: Year One>Robin: Year One>Batgirl: Year One>Nightwing: Year One>Batman/Scarecrow: Year One>Batman/Ra's al Ghul: Year One>Two-Face: Year One>Huntress: Year One>Gotham City: Year One>The Riddler: Year One>The Joker: Year One>Batman & Robin: Year One>Batman & Robin: Year One - Part Two
>>155890981>there's no drought because they made things in the 60swhat do you think drought means retard
I don't even want to defend comics, but the “comics vs. manga” rivalry is so fake. It's simply a false premise.The decline of comic books and the success of manga aren't related at all.It's like, let's say the popularity of baseball keeps declining in the US and almost nobody watches MLB in 2080 while in Japan, it remains the biggest sport.And then some people be like ''Why are Americans so bad at baseball?''
>>155893066This comparison is so poorly done it could've been written by a comic book writer.
>>155893066It's not so much about "rivalry" as it's about why one succeeded while the other failed. Personally, I think they both have their fair share of problems.
>>155893066This is more like if all the young people into baseball in America were choosing to watch NPB instead of MLB.
>>155890871>Fateuggh possibly the only franchise worse than capeshit
>>155893125This is kind of the case with soap operas. American soap operas are dying but k-dramas are pretty popular among women.
>>155877666The problem *is* the home field advantage Comics are for nerds, kids, nerdy kids. Losers. But manga? That's foreign. Exotic. Maybe even dangerous? So it's epic as hell.Steak fries au poivre costs $60 and people rave about how French chefs are on another level, when it's literally just steak and fries. Same thing
>>155892555Still better than 99% of managas
>>155892923>it's capeshitOblivion Song isn't capeshitDamn Them All isn't capeshit
>>155893156Murica is losing relevance in general.
>>155889634It bother me that this is a forced Shemage reference when a very famous overpowered bubble gum user exists in manga.
>>155889708>high concept setting/premise but all they still do is mundane slice of life stuff like cooking or eating chipsDoes sound more creative than the average capeshit
>>155889708iseaki is genuinely more creative than batman fights the joker for the billionth time
bruh
>>155893261Why are you lying?
>>155893310This is because America spent the last 15 years trying to change audiences instead of just catering to them.Sad to see, but it was self-inflicted.
People keep making up bullshit reasons when the advantages of manga are more fundamental and simple.1. People have no patience for stories that deliver 20 pages per month.2. 20 pages per month means most comics will either have absolutely garbage pacing, or be walls of text of exposition and narration3. No rule of T for comic books makes them harder to follow for the average reader.
>>155893410Getting philosophical on that last one.
>>155893310>Murica is losing relevance in general.Trump has reversed this trend, now America is more relevant than ever before.
>>155893468As the world's boogieman/punching bag, yes.
>>155888496Because early Batman and Superman comics are fucking garbage and aren't required reading, you moron.
>>155893455I mean, AOT (the one responsible for making anime/manga mainstream) was monthly series. It did have more pages than 20, but Spy x Family (another popular and monthly series) take a lot of breaks and usually only 20 or less pages.
>>155893455>People have no patience for stories that deliver 20 pages per month.Most manga outside of weekly battle shounen are monthly and around 30 pages.
>>155893577Not him but you do see the advantage of teen audience getting their shounen fix weekly, right? They are the ones who won't wait a month for the next installment of the story.
>>155893577>>155893573You’re forgetting the other part of manga that American comics fail at. Most manga ends. Most comics don’t. That why people get more invested in manga and not seeing Batman beat up a clown for the 600th time.
>>155893629They waited longer for titan. Though, the current generation definitely suffer from lack of attention and patience.
>>155893577Most monthly manga are 40 pages per month.
>>155893661>Most manga ends. Most comics don’tThey do though and for the same reason as manga. When sales fails. I still remember the interview of YGO writer when he said that he had to rush the final arc because sales weren't good.
>>155893573>>155893577Many monthly manga like AoT are 40 pages per month.SxF got popular before it started taking breaks every other week.This also doesn't address my other points. Lacking anything resembling the rule of T is probably the single reason so many readers bounce off comic books.
>>155893421>Science fiction is inherently capeshit now
>>155893725As someone said before, it's literally mostly because of anime. Most manga only got popular because they were adapted. I do agree that cape comics are generally worse than Shonen, but that's really not saying much.
>>155893261Nta but the market has never been so saturated, and there’s little reason for a foreigner to be drawn to a foreign market if they’re satisfied with their domestic market or with anime/manga. The only US comics that can stand out are capeshit or the darlings that get successfully adapted for the screen.
>>155893765You know Scott Pilgrim was a success before it got adapted right?
>>155889579Because pretending that comics are not just 99.99999% Capeshit with some little sprinklings of other stuff if you go and look real hard and find them at specialty shops maybe kinda if you are lucky is just outright lying to yourself.Yeah no shit Ghost World exists, but it's a minuscule nothing on the landscape that only hipsters who desperately want to be seen as someone who reads alternative shit from cape even knows about it and everyone is sick of hipster fucks naming that kind of stuff.
>>155891813Don't forget nearly $5 for those 19 page floppies of a fraction of a story.
>>155893696>>155893725I just like being conservative with my averages. There are some shorter monthly manga out there, 30 felt like a more fair number.
>>155893798Being success in the domestic market is mandated to get the darling treatment. Unless you think it was big overseas before that. In which case, lol and lmao.
>>155877666why do you think a sports metaphor means you have a grasp of publishing
>>155893725I mean, most comics have absolutely garbage pacing and are walls of text of exposition and narration already, no matter their length. Monthly manga are also better at pacing and plot than weekly manga for the most part, at least when the mangaka are not dying and need multiple breaks. No idea what you mean by rule of T.
>>155894283Rule of T is an unspoken way of handling paneling and story flow in which you eliminate plus (aka with the "+" shape) intersections in favor of "T" intersections to make panel reading order unambiguous and easy to follow.
>>155893577>30 pages.that's a 50 percent increase you dummy
Manga>Most of it is clearly written for children>Sold in a massive collection every fucking week for three dollars at one of the five convenience stores on every street in the country that everybody goes to constantly>Parents while shopping can very easily pick them up for their kids with little thought given>Older fans of the medium naturally grow from this and find better shit more suited to their tastes as they age>New authors constantly inspired to try and realize their visions, as self contained stories hit it big all the timeAmerican comics>Most of it written for gay 35 year olds (still all colorful spandex wearing shlock)>Sold in 30 square ft comic book stores that are the only source of them for 100 miles for the vast majority of the country at $10 for 20 pages a month>Parents have little incentive (or even possibility really) of buying their kids these expensive, short books>Kids don't fucking read them, only new fans are those that decide later in life to pick some stuff up later on in life by happenstance>New authors have to adapt whatever story ideas they have into "What If Blue Beetle Was Gay" while juggling shitting out stories for two other series, or start a webcomic that 8 people read
>>155893406Once again disingenuous weebs pretend everything is superheroes
>>155893437Catering what? Catering to whom?
>>155893629Most manga isn’t weekly shounen slop
>>155893878This is what weebs do: just keep lying pretending they barely have two brain cells left>>155893898Who forces you to buy single issues? Fucking nobody. If you buy tankoubons then why can’t you buy trade paperbacks?
>>1558947133/4 of the already infinitesimally small comic book market is DC and Marvel
>>155894713>Once again disingenuous weebs pretend everything is superheroessays the disingenuous comic fag claiming manga and anime is just isekai
>>155894732Anyone who is not themselves.
>>155893728anon he was clearly making a joke about the cape
>>155894790>If you buy tankoubons then why can’t you buy trade paperbacks?I mean, even then the value proposition is worse.Vol 1 of Chainsaw Man and Absolute Batman are the same number of pages, the former is $12, the latter $18.Both are currently on sale on Amazon, the former for $6.40, the latter for $16.77.
>>155878279Based.
>>155894456>>Older fans of the medium naturally grow from thisAre you being serious?
>>155895467What that a bunch of Jap kids who read Jump weekly still enjoy manga as they grow up?Yes are you retarded
>>155890328I am but what does that have to do anything? I would like for women to act like people in fiction instead of the monsters they are IRL
>>155890981>tarzan slop comicsYou aren't really selling it if you are calling them slop
>>155891331>hurrr anime has tiddies and no blacks in itThis is also a factor. Only one demographic likes diversity and that is the White guilt progressives. Blacks and spics would rather just watch shounen. If your only draw is diversity and not cool shit happening and a good story then no one is going to read your bullshit
>>155893066Most of the people who don't like western comics just wish that we would actually compete and have an outlet for actual creativity. In the east some random no name can get their shit published in a big serial, that is unthinkable in the west because of how nepotistic and rigid the industry is
>>155893468Dead cat bounce. Economically we are hollow as fuck and Trump hasn't done anything to fix the real issues, he's only had bandaid solutions. Take immigration. It's not like he repealed the civil rights act or the 1965 immigration act. All he did is deport people. What is to stop them from coming back in 2 years? Nothing. Trump was way too soft and is too much of a neocon prioritizing shit that doesn't matter like Israel or Ukraine instead of focusing on the important domestic issues like demographics, industry, w*men, etc
>>155894456>Most of it is clearly written for childrenThere are so many genres that you cannot nail down a single demographic
>>155894790>Why buy something now when you could way 2-3 years and maybe...just maybe they will make a trade for it....So are you just pretending to be retarded?
>>155896111Once again nothing but more lies
>>155894456>"What If Blue Beetle Was Gay"It is so sad this is true.
>>155896179I love it when people like this show they have no clue what they’re talking about
>>155896149>It's not like he repealed the civil rights act or the 1965 immigration act.not like he could even if he wanted to
>>155893878>Because pretending that comics are not just 99.99999% CapeshitDon't forget crossover slop that is a blatent attempt to profit off of multiple properties instead of telling a good story. Ah yes predator totally needs a crossover with terminator and terminator totally needs one with capeshit heroes. I'm making these up but I bet at least one of them is real.>>155896198The only reason I still come to /co/ despite it being miserable is the hope that the western entertainment industry recovers. I have zero hope for comics because they have basically never been good consistently but there is a chance that animation might recover some time from a massive purge.
>>155890328I've read plenty of manga written by women with good female characters.
>>155896239Why not? Neither of those laws are fundamental parts of the Constitution. It's not like you are repealing an amendment or something (though repealing the 19th and rewording the 14th to prevent birthrate citizenship by non Whites post slave days would be pretty good). The hard truth is that Trump is just another retarded boomer who likes that stuff so it won't go. He cares way more about Israel and whatever else his handlers tell him and has zero interest in solving the problems he was elected to solve. At best he will do minor lip service. Trump fundamentally is not aggressive enough. If he repeals enough shit fast enough the judges will not be able to keep up with it or enforce it. Trump lets the bureaucracy paralyze him because he is fundamentally just another boomer bureaucrat worshipper who doesn't want to rock the boat. He literally could have gone for a power grab in 2020 and didn't
>>155894964>>155894713>>155894861DC and Marvel in the west are shonen and isekai to the east.Yes there other in both medias but let’s be honest this is what is pushed. Like it or not Comics are dying because people are pups rather get invested in a one story manga they can just pick up and read compared to the fables that are Batman and SpiderMan. Can you find some bangers with Batman and SpiderMan hell yeah you can but you can also find things like HunterXHunter and Fullmetal Alchemist. I think a lot of people get more invested in stories they can just pick up knowing it has a beginning and an end not forever fable like Batman and SpiderMan where everything goes back to a status quo. Yes I’m aware HunterxHunter will probably end with the greater dying but at least it’s not another repeat of the main charecter suffering and failing to make any lasting change.
>>155896365There are also more genres that you can easily find if you are tired of shounen. If you are tired of capeshit you have to go on a massive hunt to find anything, especially if you have certain tastes.
>>155885944The fact it took this long for someone to mention that bitch's fat plump ass proves everyone in /co/ is either gay or a woman
>>155896429Most people are not into bestiality in general, it's a niche fetish
>>155896429>fat plump assIt's not very big.
>>155896416Liar keeps lying. Who could have seen that coming
>>155896167Ok I guess "has a very large children focused publication that is successfully marketed to children" is the better way to put that if you want to be a pedantic cockbag contributing nothing to the conversation
>>155896365>DC and Marvel in the west are shonen and isekai to the eastWhile I agree the east has literary genres while the west only has corporations, thats a pretty retarded comparison to make.
>>155896581The point is that there is something for all demographics. There is a reason that you can call most comic readers "comic enjoyers" and you can make pretty big assumptions on their taste just from that. If they say they don't like superheroes than most people would say "then what do you like" because 99% of comics are catered to superhero fags.If someone says they like manga/anime and says they don't like shounen there are a billion other genres they like.Anime/manga is a medium for story telling and there are a lot of popular stories that are told with different tones, themes, and genres. Comics are basically synonymous with the capeshit genre which has a much more limited appeal than just being a medium for all kinds of stories.
>>155896649There's not really anything wrong with a medium being seen as mainly for kids, the problem the western market has is that they're seen as mostly for kids while also COMPLETELY failing to actually fucking sell and market to kids
>>155896710That is true. But again the issue is that in the mainstream people think comics and they immediately think capeshit.When people say manga they think shounen but that isn't the ONLY genre to come to mind when people talk about it because even though shounen is the most popular, there is such sheer variety that even normal fags acknowledge the other genres. There are so many things that get storytimes on /a/ but on /co/ it is just capeshit
>>155896753"Mainstream" people think manga are comics. And they're right.
>>155896710The west also has very retarded ideas about what kids want. Pokemon, YGO, Precure, Puniru, Aikatsu, Bananya are all shit for little kids and they are wildly different from one another and far more diverse in tone and content than capeshit.
>>155896599Not really that’s the normie Slop in both. I don’t mean they’re a 1 for 1 similarity, I mean that’s the stuff people think of when you say manga or comics. Most normies think Dragonball or Batman.
>>155877748For some reason comic fans deny this explanation even though it's a very common one. There is little incentive to pick up a spider man comic when it feels like a random series of events while Naruto comic is THE adventures of the ONE AND ONLY Naruto on his specific arc
If you say "I don't like Shounen" then perhaps 30% of manga is closed off to you. If you say you don't like capeshit then 90% at minimum of comics are closed off to you.Another aspect is shopping for talent. Marvel and DC will only take a creator on if they play with the company's toys in the company's play pen.
>>155893410What am I supposed to do as a comic artist if nobody wants to read comics? Make manga? But I can't cause I'm not Japanese and live in Japan, so what the fuck do I do as an artist if nobody wants to look at me and read my stories? Kill myself?
>>155897766Webcomic, and hope it catches on with the right audience.
>>155880353>>155880531They're only ever mentioned if people say "all American comics are capeshit". If someone asks "recommend me good comics" with specifying no capeshit they'll never come up, regardless of their quality.
>>155880712>the lowest IQ board.Nah, you guys are above /vt/, /vp/ and the alikes
Back in the 00s and 10s there were a shit load of web comic creators who could have been picked up and published by Marvel and DC, but Marvel and DC totally ignored them (because of capeshit obsession). Now if people want to get anything published that's not capeshit they just self-publish and keep the rights.Another aspect is that there aren't "comics for adults" that aren't just either porn or edgy shit like Crossed. There is no comic version of something like A Distant Neighbourhood.
>>155897766WebcomicIf Gangle from The Amazing Digital Circus can make a living off of quitting her day job at McDonalds and making an anime inspired webcomic then so can you!
>>155880353I don't really wanna read stuff like thisWhen I say I don't want capeshit, I don't mean I want the polar opposite of capeshit.There's alot I like to capeshit, I'm just sick of seeing generic 1950's dudes in spandex fighting bank robbers.Battle shonens are like capeshit in alot of ways, but pretty much none of the bad ways.Why don't comics get this? I want comics to make battle shonens
>>155897766I read comics, and I pay for them. There are good comics artists making good comics regardless of what all the retards in this thread say. I haven't got a clue how you get published, but maybe ask the people who do rather than morons on 4chan whining about fucking Spiderman.
>>155897860>There is no comic version of something like A Distant Neighbourhood.Of course there is; read French comics.
I don't even get how anyone can be a /co/ regular when almost every cartoon and comic is pozzed trash. And the few good indie cartoons take 6 months to make one episode.
>>155877748Manga has Everything.Romance? CheckDrama? CheckSexualized girls? CheckNo-sexualized girls? CheckGenderbender? CheckOrphan children? Check
>>155885488It's not the ink that makes them cheaper but the paper. Manga uses basically the same paper that will be in any run of the mill paperback novel, so you get massive, global, economies of scale.
it's a complete travesty how France gave all kids some money to spend of French cultural products, but almost all the kids bought manga with it.the West has fallen indeed.
>>155886519Don't forget the endless repeats of repeats of remakes and revivals of remasters.
>>155889001Not them, but each story ending is still and ending. The "end" of a Batman run isn't really the "end" because it will inform the run that comes afterwards.
>>155891232>the sign that used to be spread out is now overlaid to save space10/10 visual story telling.
>>155897759It's a lot harder to lump shonen together as if it's a genre as well.It'd be like saying "I don't like comics that use the color blue."
>>155897940Name them, sweaty.
>>155895059This is a good demonstration. I just looked and the City Hunter omnibus is £16 for about 600 pages. It's new to me, but hell, for that price and that many pages I'll give it a shot. Why not?Then you get what you mention there, and you think "Hmmm. I'm not so sure..." even though the price is the same.It's not a logical thing, but nearly everyone has this same reaction I'm sure of it.
>>155898179Only in the sense that it will be either retconned or completely ignored.
>>155896649>Comics are basically synonymous with the capeshit genreEven things that aren't somehow end up still having that smell. Jonah Hex doesn't feel like a western in the way Blueberry does.One thing I've always thought about is why they don't just break up the monopoly, to use and expression, in the setting. Put Raven back into Victorian/Edwardian London rubbing shoulders with the Golden Dawn and the occult sphere in Europe at that time. Make it essentially a horror-mystery story.But then there's that other issue: I had to think about using an established character, not a new one.
>>155897766Webcomic and self-publish/crowd funding.
>>155897940>Of course there is; read French comics.Like Tintin or Asterisk?Yeah, I'm being sarcastic, but what kind of answer is that? I'm talking about a very specific example (I doubt people under 25 will really "get" A Distant Neighbourhood like someone over 25 will) in terms of theme and mood.
>>155898245>It's a lot harder to lump shonen together as if it's a genre as well.Even if you narrow it down to shounen jump battle shounen, it is hard to lump them together. Jojo, Saint Seiya and Dragonball could not be more different from one other despite being the definition of battle shounen.>It'd be like saying "I don't like comics that use the color blue."I feel thats an easier claim to make.
>>155898245>>155898591The point was more that even if you cast the widest possible net it's still not the same effect.
>>155891470This comic is so badly written i almost got a headache from reading it.
>>155897766Start a YouTube channel, get an audience, join Comics Gate, crowdfund a comic. Avoid anything related to Eric July, Nerdrotic, Yellow Flash, or Geeks and Gamers
>>155896649Western Comics are still a medium for all different kinds of stories. Capeshit just sells the most.
>>155898748>Western Comics are still a medium for all different kinds of storiesYes, hypothetically and in theory that is a true statement.>Capeshit just sells the most.And sells like shit.
>>155898818>sells like shitPeople keep saying that, yet they still come out every month
>>155898702Zak...
>>155898846I don't think he'd even give that advice
I just checked, because I saw it on the catalog, and apparently Gunnerkrigg Court has an estimated monthly readership comparable with a Big Two release, and this is an independent webcomic.The question is WHY is it an indie comic and not a monthly DC/Marvel release?
>>155897766Make a new thread about this alone.
>>155896299Look up what powers the executive has vs what powers Congress has
