Did that bald cuck Bendis really think this would be the end of Carnage, lol?
>>155912789It really does seem like no one at Marvel hates Symbiotes more than Bendis, he tried to kill Carnage, he tried to kill Eddie Brock, he made the Symbiotes totally without personality in his Ultimate Universe and then quickly killed them off, he then tried to turn Symbiotes into Green Lanterns and rename them Klyntars in the main universe, puttinf out a memo saying you can't call them Symbiotes anymore, that's a slur, you have to call them Klyntars from now on...
>>155912818And none of it stuck! Lmao, fuck Bendis.
>>155912789It should have, status quo slop demanding villains live forever is misery porn
>>155912860Shitty OC's should not be allowed to kill other people's villains. Venom literally was going to kill Carnage in Maximum Carnage and then Spider-Man stops him. Giving the Carnage kill to your shitty new Superman variant in your dogshit New Avengers book about Luke Cage is trash writing and the early 2000s fucking blew.
>>155912860Spider-Man and Venom readers would literally never even know Carnage was dead since it happened in New Avengers, Marvel kept getting letters for Amazing Spider-Man asking why Carnage hadn't shown up again, because no one knew this happened.It would be like having Green Goblin get killed in an X-Men book.
>>155912789Bendis also randomly made Anti-Venom a villain on a team called the Revengers and had them attack Avengers mansion despite Anti-Venom's only apperances in comics up to that point having him act as a total good guy. That comic is never mentioned or refrenced by anyone, total waste of time that got ignored by every other writer.
I'm glad people are picking up on Bendis' weird hangups, but like a lot of cases it's a bit late.
>>155912789Considering all the symbioteslop we get now, I think Bendis was onto something.
>>155913063Better late than never, I see too many zoomers glazing him on TikTok because of Miles. He really can never get enough hate because he has been nothing but a force for evil in comics his entire career, massively pushing decompressed nothing issues where people just talk and drink coffee, bringing over multiverse slop characters like Miles, trying to get his greasy paws on every single character and concept and reshaping them to his liking.Bendis deserves all the hate that people give Dan Slott and more.
>>155912789I doubt it. Even he has brought back dead characters.
>>155913109He prevented none of it and wasted everyone's time forcing there to be entire runs reverting the mistakes Bendis never should have made. Both Donny Cates and Al Ewing spent years of their lives undoing the awful lore changes implemented by Bendis. If you don't like a character, simply don't write them. When writers take on hate projects where they kill or rewrite characters they personally are assblasted over, all they do is waste people's time, because eventually another writer who actually likes the character will be forced to undo the changes. Save everyone the time, be a grownup, and stop pissing in other people's cereal, just eat your own cereal and settle down.
>>155913159>undoing the awful lore changesThat's a waste of their time too.
>>155914478Making stuff you enjoy that makes people happy and the world a better place is never a waste of time. Bendis made comics out of hate and spite and made the world a worse place.
>>155913140Bringing back dead characters is such a BS move.
>>155916164Depends, some characters shouldn't be killed to begin with.
>>155912818I hate that I agree with Bendis on something.
>>155912789>Bendis>thinkhahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>155913063Like his hate for secret identities? His Daredevil run, Ultimate Spider-Man, hell first thing he did in DC was nix Superman's
>>155912818Revealing that "klytnar" was just the symbiote word for prison was so funny
>>155916889There are some things I dislike about Donny Cates' run, but I will always be grateful to him overall for raping Bendis.
Knull fuckin sucke
>>155916810Yes, that was a grating habit of his because even if not every crime fighter needs a dual identity and strained drama from that all the time, the idea none under him should and they all go around casually as if they know there will be no consequences because a higher power can't bother to keep track just deflates everything.And that's the source of a lot of his habits: if Bendis doesn't like or care about something as a reader and writer, he decrees no one else could or should.
>>155912789Years later he had Miles one shot Venom in Civil War 2. At the time Venom's book was out selling Mile's.
>>155912789Never understood what the big deal is with this. Isn't Carnage pretty much unkillable or have Wolverine-level healing factor? Shouldn't he just simply patch himself up with no problem?
>>155917102Bendis is the definition of an immature manchild. Not to mention he is a bald manlet with a Napoleon complex.
>>155912789No, why are you this stupid? Carnage was used in that scene because he barely had been in anything for years, so he wasn’t important and it was a way to do something shocking with the Sentry.
>>155917314Read the thread, sabotaging symbiotes is a pattern with Bendis, I don't care what his cover story is, I see through it.
>>155917207He's 6'1.
>>155917324Lol, you believe that?
>>155917324Dude...
>>155917321Writing dumb stories with symbiotes is the pattern. He clearly likes symbiotes instead of hating them. Hence why they keep showing up in his stories. You people need to grow the fuck up and not always start conspiracy theories about how a writer must hate character X because boo hoo something bad happened to them or they were killed
>>155912818I mean given what a burning garbage heap the entire symbiote thing would become, I kinda agree with him.
>>155917508Bendis openly explained his reasoning for the Klyntar lore retcon he introduced in his Guardians of the Galaxy run, and it was because he felt that the idea of an evil parasitic race of conquering aliens was racist and reeked of anti-Semitic tropes, so he turned them into Green Lanterns.He completely changed the fundamental nature or symbiotes, he hates symbiotes. In Ultimate Spider-Man he made them into a technology which has no personality, and then he made Eddie Brock a date rapist whose cool black roomate says he never liked him, to show the audience that he's really a bad guy. He hates Eddie Brock, he hates Symbiotes, and he hates Venom.Not my problem if you're too dumb to put two and two together in your head and actually understand his motivations.
>>155917533You already posted this.
>>155917546>an evil parasitic race of conquering aliens was racist and reeked of anti-Semitic tropesIt's weird how they see this and identify with it immediately; it's like they intrinsically know the whole Israel thing is fucked up.
>>155912922>It would be like having Green Goblin get killed in an X-Men book.Or like having Mysterio get killed in a Daredevil book?Or like having Stilt-Man get killed in a Punisher book?
>>155917646I never knew Mysterio was killed before, but yes, that proves my point exactly. Stilt Man I know was killed because people post that panel of the funeral with the two tables in the bar, but beyond that, I would have never known.It's bad storytelling to kill off characters associated with specific characters in books that aren't theirs. Imagine if Doctor Doom got killed off in a Kamala Khan book and the main Fantastic Four books just never mentioned it until it was time to bring him back to life.
>>155917324If he's 6,1 I'm a pro basketball player.He's rather puny in person.
>>155917546>he changed things so clearly he hates them!Okay midwit
>>155917671He was mixing Bendis up with Bendis' black guy costume that he wears sometimes.
>>155917684Who's your favorite character? I'll be sure to change everything about him and then you can't complain because I will be changin everything about because I just really like him, which is why I want to turn him into something totally different.
>>155917153Bendis killed Carnage at the height of his "ruining characters he didn't like" power at Marvel.No one expected Carnage to come back and his return was in a mini series no one read because Spiderman editorial has to straight up sneak Cleatus's return under Quesada's nose especially after he let Millar kill off Eddie Brock and make Scorpion both Venon and a Thunderbolt.>>155917546Actually, the REAL reason Bendis raped Venon/symbiote lore was that Bendis wanted to write Rom the Space Knight and even fucking had came up with a new name for Rom, the same way Brubaker renamed Fu Manchu to get around the Rhoner estate, during Age of Ultron to allow him to basically say the entire Rom series still happened.Legal basically has to step in and tell Quesada to snack Bendis in the face, as Hasbro was working to revive Rom proper at at the time, legal found out that Hasbro could make life hell for Marvel since Marvel had been reprinting books featuring Rom in cameo form without paying Hasbro, let alone Hasbro having joint claim to the name Dire Wraiths. Bendis was pissy so he decided to take Venom's lore to make the symbiotes into Rom clones right down to making Venon lore Rom-like in appearance
>>155917667Mysterio dying in DD created a shit show of behind the scenes bullshit that only got resolved in Spencer's Spiderman run after a false start to fix him in the PAD FNSM run right before One More Day got squashed by it
>>155917667>Imagine if Doctor Doom got killed off in a Kamala Khan book and the main Fantastic Four books just never mentioned it until it was time to bring him back to life.You word it like Marvel wouldn't okay this without a second thought
>>155912922I was reading this book at the time and it really never registered to me that he would be dead for good, there was just so little fanfare to the whole thing. Granted I have always disliked Carnage so maybe I just wasn't really thinking about it.
>>155916613>Depends, some characters shouldn't be killed to begin with.When it comes to Marvel, DC or any other work for hire comics, the writers really should have to go through several levels of editorial approval to kill off any character unless it's their own OC, potentially even approval from the execs if it's an important enough character. And the same for having the character commit acts that are going to permanently taint them forevermore.Even if it is the writer's own OC, if they've started to make it into adaptations, toys and merch, the company may not want them permanently killed off.It's baffling that so many readers seem to be fine with character deaths but violently object to resurrections when you factor in how many deaths in cape comics are just one of the following>the writer trying to make his mark before his run ends>the mentality that someone has to die in an event story for it to really be an event>the mentality that Marvel and DC have a gorillion lower-tier characters and nobody will care if you kill one of them>"I spent all those years working my way into the industry so I could make my fanfics canon, make my ships happen and kill off characters I hate"
>>155917694See: this anon is so butthurt that they can’t even think rationally and just act bitchy little baby because they can’t handle that a paid writer produces fiction and sometimes it results in a story that anon doesn’t like
>>155917716>No one expected Carnage to come backBecause as we all know, nobody ever comes back in superhero comics. Especially the villains
>>155917736>Mysterio dying in DD created a shit show of behind the scenes bullshitAs much as I agree villains shouldn't be killed in other books, this was less down to the act of killing a villain in a different hero's book and more down to the people working on Spider-Man at the time not being told it was happening. Supposedly the Spider-Man editor forgot he gave Kevin Smith permission to kill Mysterio, but there's a non-zero chance Smith never even asked for permission and just did it because he was a Hollywood big shot and this was just comics.
>>155917748>>155917791Ripping a guy in half and throwing him into space does seem like it's definitely an attempt to get rid of a character for good though. There's a difference between killing a villain in a way where you're leaving an out for a later writer to bring him back, and killing him in a way where a later writer will have to asspull new powers and abilities for that villain to explain his survival, or will have to do an actual resurrection from the dead.
>>155913159>Both Donny Cates and Al Ewing spent years of their lives undoing the awful lore changes implemented by Bendis.Idk if mentioning Cates trying to fix Bendis' shit by implementing something that is even worse in Knull and connecting half the fucking Marvel Universe to him and then Ewing for some reason bying into it and making even MORE Knullshit is making a point you wanted to make
>>155917822But he's Carnage he has crazy healing powers. I think other anons have mentioned this but carnage was barely a thing in the early to mid aughts, even when they did minimum carnage his personality was barely present.
>>155917546>the idea of an evil parasitic race of conquering aliens was racist and reeked of anti-Semitic tropesI never would have even THOUGHT about connecting symbiotes to jews before reading this sentence, and even after reading it linking the two feels like trying to shove a peg in a square hole. It feels like those dumbasses who say that Tolkien's orcs were black-coded without realizing how racist and out of touch even making that connection makes them sound. What the fuck was Bendis smoking really?
>>155917667>Imagine if Doctor Doom got killed off in a Kamala Khan book and the main Fantastic Four books just never mentioned it until it was time to bring him back to life.Or if Kamala Khan got killed in a Spider-Man book... oh wait
>>155917904Are you claiming that was a good bit of writing? Just because Marvel pulls bullshit over and over again doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.
>>155917908no I was just pointing out that Marvel is retarded enough to do it and do it more than onceI do agree with your point, but Marvel clearly doesn't
>>155917803Why did Kevin Smith even want to kill Mysterio? What was his motivation?
>>155917841>But he's Carnage he has crazy healing powers.IIRC a lot of that came from the work that was done to bring Carnage back from the time Benis killed him. I don't remember any earlier stories where Carnage displayed OP healing powers.>>155917925>Why did Kevin Smith even want to kill Mysterio? What was his motivation?At a guess, he lampshades it in his own story by referencing Kraven's Last Hunt, so his motivation would be to create a story that would be acclaimed and kept in print like Kraven's Last Hunt is, and you can't do that without a Lee/Ditko Spider-Man villain shockingly committing suicide.
>>155917990I never paid attention to Mysterio dying or being brought back to life, but if it was me I would just ssy that Mysterio faked the suicide and that was the real trick on Daredevil. Is that what they did, or did they do some weird magic ressurection of a dead body nonsense?
>>155918008The Spider-Man books at the time tried to go with Beck having just faked his death, but then Quesada became EIC and they were forced to backtrack to the Mysterio in stories afterwards being someone else, and Beck being dead as far as anyone knew.Then over ten years later Slott was allowed to bring Beck back claiming to have just faked his death, then ten years after that, Spencer's run claims he really did die but was resurrected. The whole thing is a mess and always will be.
>>155918030Everything I hear about Spencers run sounds terrible.
>>155918030Details wrong.PAD brought Beck back not Slott, with an implied supernatural reason and a mystery master. Slott straight up ignored this and went with Mackie's original "I faked my death" glib rational that Smith despised as he wanted Mysterio permanently dead and only half heartedly agreed to create a new one in his Black Cat mini in exchange for being allowed to add a rape to BC's backstory. Before Spencer, Mysterio was still radioactive because no one bought the whole "he faked his death" thing especially since PAD was building up to giving an actual answer before OMD ended that and PAD not allowed to follow it up. Spencer made it explicit that Mysterio did die and come back from the dead as a pawn of Kindred, who had him brainwash Norman And MJ into thinking Norman fucked Gwen and got her pregnant as well as brainwash Norman into thinking he faked Harry's death for when Kindred unleashed the Harry Osborn clone onto the world. Spencer basically straight up resolved the Mysterio debacle whereas Slott and Mackie refused to answer it to spite Smith, for glibly killing Beck off just because he could, fuck everyone who was using him in stories at the tine
>>155918030Peter David was the one who brought Beck back.
>>155912922Bendis instead had the Green Goblin be defeated, arrested, and imprisoned in a Jessica Jones comic.
>>155917822How can someone be this fucking stupid? You literally have people show up in the afterlife establishing they’re indeed dead and then later someone just retcons that lol no they were never dead in the first place, that afterlife appearance wasn’t real. You’re talking about a fictional universe where a snap of the finger once killed half of all living beings in existence where they simply ceased to exist and then suddenly they were all back.
>>155917925Mysterio hadn’t been used in years and he worked as a good surprise villain to the whole religious scam being pulled on Daredevil. That’s it. And it was a good story. Crying that you can’t kill certain characters in other books is dumb when you’re dealing with a shared universe. It’s especially okay when the character in question hasn’t even been used in ages so you’re not losing anything. It’s just typical fanboy outrage to complain about it.Something like killing Kamala in Spider-man was stupid because it was a blatant gimmick that served no real purpose, was immediately reversed and it’s a bit different when you do that with a solo hero character vs a villain who should be free to be used in any title unless they specifically have a personal grudge, which Carnage doesn’t have against Spider-man beyond just being a villain that keeps showing up in Spider-man titles since that’s where they debuted
>>155918775>You literally have people show up in the afterlife establishing they’re indeed dead and then later someone just retcons that lol no they were never dead in the first placeOh I remember that happening with Wasp is a Hercules comic after her "death" in Secret Invasion. Thematically appropriate for this thread, both her death and resurrection were written by Bendis, yet it was Pak who ended up with a funny botch of showing her in Hades. IIRC she might have not been the only "dead but not actually dead" character who appeared there in that specific comic.
Reading this thread really just reminds me how much swap Bendis had at the time, I'm somewhat of a Bendis defender but Marvel had habit of overextending certain writers when they were in charge of an event, worst case example being Mark Millar and just how bad the civil war era books had become.
>>155917314>Carnage was used in that scene because he barely had been in anything for years, so he wasn’t importantWhy lie on the internet where everyone can see you? There was a Venom vs Carnage mini in 2004, it ended just months before New Avengers #2. He was also a popular character that sold a lot of merch, so not an unimportant character that should be gratuitously killed in another title just to show off how powerful the Sentry is.>>155918817>Mysterio hadn’t been used in yearsThat's not really that true either. His last present-day appearance in a Spider-Man title was in 1996, followed by a Daredevil story later the same year, so only 2 years before Guardian Devil started, he was in a 1998 Spider-Man story set in past continuity, and the current ASM creative team had a Mysterio story planned for 1999. This wasn't a forgotten character who'd been in limbo for years and years.>And it was a good story.If you say so.>Crying that you can’t kill certain characters in other books is dumb when you’re dealing with a shared universe.No, it's an abuse of the shared universe, the same way as making some other sort of "intended to be permanent" change to a character would be when they make a guest appearance in someone else's book. Or as we see often today, having a heroine guest star in someone else's book get turned into "and she hooks up with the book's star". You're abusing the idea of the shared universe.>Something like killing Kamala in Spider-man was stupid because it was a blatant gimmick that served no real purpose, was immediately reversedAlso Marvel briefly killing Scarlet Witch and bringing her back in an X-Men story. In both cases you can argue it was harmless as they weren't dead long, but both times it just enraged fans of those characters for no good reason.>a villain who should be free to be used in any titleThe difference between "free to be used" and "free to be killed" is massive thoughever.
I think about that a lot when comic writers force in adrupt stupid deaths.Same with Knull "killing" Sentry.
>>155913109He is the direct responsible for it with Venom space knight.
>>155918208>>155918212I think I mentally filed that Peter David Mysterio story with the kind of stories >>155918832 is talking about where the characters are explicitly still dead rather than seeing it as an actual return.>>155918775Yes, comics writers can just ignore deaths, and even ignore the character being seen in an afterlife, but you're kind of missing the point that there's a big difference between a writer giving a character a death scene which has an obvious way out built into it, like if we never see a body on-panel, and a death scene where a later writer is going to have to ignore it completely, do an asspull retcon of it being an imposter, or do an actual resurrection story if they want to bring that character back. And an actual magical resurrection storyline is a bad fit for a lot of books and a lot of characters.
