Writing this from the perspective of an animator and not a consumer.>The #1, biggest problem in my opinionWith the standard corporate industry going down indie has become a funnel for professionals with no job to go into. You notice this with Glitch productions looking at who works there. Everyone is a former industry animator, literal people with families and shitBUT WHERE DO THE NEW ANIMATORS GO?I go to art college, I'm constantly hearing shit like make a series, just do it, here's the truth about that:>#2 problemYou either have money or you don't.SO many indie series exist that simply don't have money, so they prey on young artists (me) to do free work for them.My entire, 5+ year experience working as a new animator is, guess what, unpaid labor volunteer projects.And I'm fed up, okay? You wanna know my issue? What I fucking hate about indie animation? Where do I fucking go to make money? When a project has money, people who worked at fucking CN/WB/whatever take the jobs leaving people like me with free scrap projects, which, more often than not, I join these projects and there's no leadership at all, and things fall apart.>#3 problemThe big projects? it's all influencers who kow each other.Does talent even matter anymore? Apparently not. I mean, I know this since I go to art school. I constantly hear that it matters who you know, and that applies online too. But guess what! There are no entry level jobs, there is no indie studio training new animators, so take a moment and guess what that means.ding ding ding! if you answered: to get into the indie animation industry you have to become a social media influencer, you are correct!I'm so sick of this. I'm SO sick of job hunting for jobs that don't exist. I'm so sick of applying to things, then getting ghosted, people telling me my work is good, but also apparently not good enough to get hired! How much longer will this go on? Until I'm fucking 30??
>>155985752You don’t have actual talent
>>155985752To be honest anon, you need to find some low-energy job that allows you to animate on the side. OR network like a whore because it’s only that way you can get hopefully find a reasonable gig, best advice, save money whenever you can.
>>155985816Typical tranny looking to redefine “talent” as navigating the psychosocial hurdles in the way of benefiting from nepotism instead of actually animating, entertaining audiences, and making artistic meaning.
>>155985977You have no idea what this anon’s body of work is, he could be animating vegetables fletching each other at 10 frames a second for all you know.
>>155986009I’m going off of the same information the transgender poster has and he’s looking to shut down criticizing the bizarre social charades that makes animation remarkably off-putting to people who actually want to tell stories with cool visuals.
>>155985752>BUT WHERE DO THE NEW ANIMATORS GO?Also, to the Indies. Like. Fuck bro. Can ya draw? Can you keep to a schedule? Will you wee in trashbin to assert dominance over your coworkers? Depending on yournanswers, welcome aboard!
>>155986032Fuck off
>>155985752>Writing this from the perspective of an animator Bullshit.
>>155985752Shocking! The industry still relies on nepotism!? My god!
>>155985752Nah it’s because Asians are corrupt as shit with whatever they run and their spergs are functional enough to actually create Saturn that attracts other lesser spergs (spics and white spergs that never got gifted in anything) like moths to a flame
>>155986388Honestly, that’s how it’s always been, that’s how *life* has always been. Humans are social creatures, you get work, find partners and make friends sitting around the proverbial campfire, not under the tree at the edge of camp.>But I don’t like parties and socialisingTough shit, as my dad always said, it’s a social obligation, it’s how he got married, it’s how I found my first job, hang around some people, see what they’re doing and always keep in touch with the interesting ones.
>>155986340>reverting back to a childish mentality when your nepotistic ways get called outStay away from your lgbtq friends and you can eventually become normal from this state >>155986452> Humans are social creatures, you get work, find partners and make friends sitting around the proverbial campfire, not under the tree at the edge of camp.Darwinist nonsense.In the Catholic Church saints are honored in isolation, not as “the saint and friends necessary to be true and affirmed humans.” People are judged as isolated individuals.Just so, in all my artistic pursuits I want them to stand alone, not in accordance to how many knobs I slobbered to get a leg up.
>>155986321in my experience, there is often no schedule. Not gonna name names, but I'm gonna go look at my resume real quick and give the rundown what those projects were like>project 1 in 2024guy leading this was a teen but the project itself was pretty competent and impressive. Did have a schedule for this. Just had a storyboard an AD with other board artists, delivered on it>project 2 in 2025this project was also ran by teens, no schedule. fell apart pretty quick. Somehow 2-ish years later it got acquired by another studio and became really popular on youtube (100k+ views) but behind the scenes things still lacked structure, I was let go from the team and most of my work on this isn't public. Not because it sucks but because they literally made the video editor work on a 24hr deadline so tons of people work got cut.>project 2.5, 2025this one isn't even on my resume it was a project I did a test for and got in but died before any real work could get done because the director wasn't competent and gave up, so all that was really done for this was a script and concept designs and va stuff>project 3, 2025applied to be a 2d animator, was given a deadline, delivered on the deadline. I stayed on this for 2 episodes>project 4, 2025no deadline on this but did character designs and storyboards>project 5, 2025another project with deadlines, pretty sure the director has been trying to make this one for years. the director has said multiple big-name studios are interested but I dunno how true that is...I delievered animation on this, but the project is literally stuck in the hole of nothing-is-being-done so I'm unsure if it will ever see the light of day>project 6, 2026oh boy, this one was an internship I did designs for. A year later I don't think they did anything with my work so unsure if I can even put it in my portfolio. But I had a deadline and delivereed.(1/2)
>>155986771>project 7, 2026"school" project, because an animation teacher opened a studio, had a deadline to make character designs, met the deadline>project 8, 2026there is no deadline on this project, but I'm a 2d animator and the only one on the team that delivered any animatiion>project 9, 2026while this project looked promising when I joined it literally nothing has been done on it and I haven't been assigned squatand that's all the free work I've done for people in 2 years.
ok but have you ever tried like not doing stuff for free?
>>155987085duh, wouldn't be complaining if I could actually get work but most jobs I apply to that are remote ghost or reject and those are the real-real jobs, I actually haven't seen many indie projects doing paid hiring other than glitch and I applied to glitch at one point and ghosted, hence why I say you need to know people, because where do some of these bigger projects even get ppl? only takes looking at a few credit names to find out the staff are friend groups.
>>155985752As much as I hate animators, I feel for you because your complaints are valid. Perhaps you could open a patreon, attach yourself to a dedicated fandom and do animations. This might support you until you gain enough reputation for others to reach out to you.
>>155986032>>155986572Hi, Guy! I'm that writefag from a while back. Still willing to read that script of yours and give honest criticism. Just waiting on you to share it.
>>155987207What if you went in indie Discords and social media, posed as someone who wants to hire animators for a project, and ask the heads how and where they look for animators?
>>155987207I'm guessing you're already on Casting Call Club?
>>155987268honestly thinking about going this route not gonna name names again but my school did a "portfolio review" thing where the owner of a big studio was there, and after looking at my portfolio of mostly original work and animations he told me he'd like to see more fan work, like animating sonic characters instead of my own stuff.>>155987327god dude I fucking hate discord. Most of what I have joined so far has been through youtube videos about projects looking for animators. Ideally y'know I'd get a job through a job listing on the Animation/VFX/Game Industry Job Postings spreadsheet>>155987352yep
>>155985816Fippy bippy
>>155985752Nobody at Glitch has a family, it's all new comers who at most had 1 project before joining there.
>>155986388>nepotismDon't use words you don't know the meaning of. What OP is describing is networking. I'll copypaste from another anon:>nepotism = getting a job you're unqualified for because you're related to someone in power>cronyism = getting a job you're unqualified for because your friends with someone in power>success through networking = getting a job you're qualified for because you've established a reputation for being friendly, easy to get along with, and reliable on top of your qualified skill set. >A good network can be the difference between your portfolio getting buried in submissions or actually getting looked at, but your skills are still what book the gig. A good network connection can also give you an edge if the decision comes down to a handful of candidates and someone who is already on the production can vouch for you. It's not going to get you a job if you're unqualified, but if you have the right skills, a good personal recommendation will give you an edge over some random yahoo. You don't have to become an influencer like OP says, but you need to make connections, because there's thousands of people looking for animation jobs, and anyone hiring isn't likely to be scouring the internet looking for randos to hire, they're gonna be looking at the people who made an effort to land on their radar through community links.
>>155985752ithink another big issue is prolly that some of these projects often seem to be easier to get mauled on by fans due to the lack of a middleman to filter out all the nonsense(well that, and also because everyone and their uncle is on twitter now)
>>155985752>been doing it for free for five yearsyou're a hobbyistyou're not an animatoryou have a hobby
>>155985752Thomas is such a qt 3.14~
>>155985752Indie animation is just the cartoon equivalent of "organic" food now. Shows are funded by low quality merchandise and kickstarters and they expect YOU to pay for it instead of execs and investors.
A big problem is trust fund kid swooping in to get a stranglehold on everything and gatekeep it, but also indie animators need to stop trying to make things that are like the top must of animation skill and demand, they should take a note from something like Jonny Quest or His and Her Circumstances and use limited animation whenever possible unless they've gained enough of a following to raise money. Doing that would make it easier to break away from all that and to actually achieve their goals
>>155986364Why does the thought of an animator posting on /co/ seem so fantastical to you?
>>155985752Don't do the free work thing for starters
>>155989189That's B.S. and not how jobs work at all it's unacceptable that the entertainment industry works that way. Imagine if people were like: "You should let this guy take pictures of your kids, bro. You've got to play the game of you want to be a carpenter, man!"
>>155989587Anyone who animates is an animator.
I see it less as something to be obligated into and more as a fun, imaginative thing that I would do if I have the chance (if not a hobby).I've seen good animators in the past who started young yet lost that touch now because the world is the way it is.Maybe I'm like that now despite accomplishing a decimal of a percentage of what they accomplish.But if I have cause to make animation, even if it's for fun, then I will not let that advantage/chance slip and make animation.Not because it was ever anything I was serious about but because almost every other medium I used to love as a child has basically been given what people call "the dementor's kiss"..
>>155993737What is taking pictures of kids supposed to represent in your analogy?
>>155993929I would like to because I have a lot of interest and respect for the art form. I feel like we've become so used to the fact that we lose our appreciation for just how mind-blowing it is that we figured it a way to take a still image and make it move. Like that's insane and if that happened less then one hundred years ago. No one knew that was possible and then boom and they're making Snow White
>>155993971I guess being literal but also shorthand for basically having to whore yourself to some nepo baby to be tossed a bone. You wouldn't believe how many people have to do things for people they normally would never for people they don't even like just in the hopes of getting a job out there. Don't be fooled the system is by design. There's no reason why they can't just have you pass a test to prove you have the technical skill to do it and there's more then enough labor positions to fill (like Disney back in the day) the whole thing is just messed up from the top down.
>>155994003It sounds like you're overly opposed to the social aspect of getting a job and wish that it could be entirely circumvented. This might work with jobs that are completely technical and/or more solitary, but not for a creative collaboration which will require a team capable of working together.
>>155985752Anon if your still in the thread you fucked up by working on others projects for free instead of taking the route established since the 2010s CN AT alumni got drafted by Penn Ward.Trend chasing fanart and fan animations (like 2 minutes at most) that catches people eyes and give you clout.Which is to an extent your 3rd complaint but that's just how its been for over a decade now. You don't even really need to become a brand yourself unless you want you own pilot, but you do gotta post your shit everywhere and post works about FOTM content or animating stream, LP, or podcast clips. And then once you have people who are starting shows that pay and do like your stuff, they will reach out.Also stop doing other people's projects for free, doing that just makes your baseline value "free".in the eyes of others.
>>155994003Four relatively competent guys who can work together can do exponentially more on average than one savant autist outside of the most niche technical fields. Because of that companies hire for people they think will be able to do the required level of socializing needed to work with not just a team, but a team with its own habits and culture. Something which having other people to vouch for you that are already part of that company culture or those hiring trust to align with said culture serves as a positive indicator of.AKA Proving that you can network also proves that you can work on a team.
