What went wrong with the original Ultimate universe?
Jeph Loeb and Mark Millar, /thread, 'nuff said.
>>156085884>Jeph LoebI know it's pretty common knowledge now, but I heard the main reason his writing was so terrible on stuff like Ultimatum was because he was dealing with the death of his son at the time.
>>156085876Why is nobody responding to my thread :(
all the heroes were too cucky
>>156085876It was meant to be mainline Marvel without the baggage, and then in less than a decade it had more baggage than the mainline.
>>156085876>what went wrong with a garbage fire
>>156085876>very much a product of its time, even moreso than the original Marvel universe>whole point was to be a clean continuity universe for normies that avoided all the convoluted shit but thanks to constantly changing creative teams the universe quickly became just as convoluted>Two of the three main books got fucked HARD; Ultimate X-Men was placed in a weird holding pattern for years waiting for Bryan Singer to write it (which he never did) so you'd get writers who thought they were only doing one arc being forced to extend a run they weren't terribly interested in to begin with and then Ultimates was delayed to the point we'd maybe get one issue a year *if you were lucky* which quickly killed interest>the main Marvel Universe had gained enough momentum with things like Astonishing X-Men, New Avengers, House of M, and Civil War to further make the Ultimate Universe irrelevant >by the late 2000s the Ultimate Universe was a shambling corpse Marvel didn't know what to do with so they gave it to Jeph Loeb to run wild with since he had some heat thanks to Heroes which was popular at the time but Loeb was also grieving his recently deceased son and basically used the Ultimate Universe to work out his grief which ended up blowing the brains out of the shambling corpse
>>156085876They forgot about her.
>>156085923Yeah I feel sorry for him but literally what he did in Ultimatum is insane shit that ruined the universe. Doesn't matter the reasons. Yeah we can cut him some slack, but who wants to continue reading a comics universe when something like Ultimatum or Millar's shit happens? Also yeah, EMH is still partly his fault.
>>156087595>ruined the universeEh, the Ultimate universe was pretty much done by the time Loeb did Ultimatum. In the forums at the time the big question about Ultimate was "can the imprint survive on Spider-Man alone" because no one gave a shit about any of the other books
>>156085876It's several parts. >>156085884 is on the right path but there was more going on>Millar set the tone for the Ultimate line that people fixate on>Marvel wanted the prestige of having Bryan Singer working on an X-Men comic, so they demanded that Ultimate X-Men not do too many changes after Millar so that Singer and his writers could get around to doing that comic.>Ultimate X-Men flounders for a while and then Kirkman comes on board and people disliked his run>Millar and Hitch's Ultimates 1 and 2 were heavily delayed so it'd be hard to write things involving those characters in other books>Ultimates 3 was hated a lot>Ultimatum was the nail in the coffin for a lot of the Ultimate readers
>>156086776Please elaborate.
>>156087549Also one of their biggest missed opportunities was failing to secure a new licensing deal with Toho after Godzilla Final Wars. A 1610 Godzilla could have a design based on the Stan Winston concept, Since Marvel's old design was the basis of the Stout design from the cancelled early 80s movie
>>156085884Nah it was Bendis.
>>156085876Oneupmanship
>>156088760People who read the Ultimate universe today/uncs who never grew out of the Bronze Age bitch about the Ultimate heroes being "unlikable" while leaving out the context of when it was written. Limp Bizkit and Eminem were the biggest thing in music, The Matrix was a huge movie that featured the heroes mowing down an entire floor of minimum-wage security guards in a badass action sequence, and the biggest TV hero was Stone Cold Steve Austin. Cynicism and assholery was chic. If you weren't there or were an unc you just can't get it, it's like trying to explain the color red to someone who's been blind from birth. It's also why the Ultimate universe has aged very, very poorly because it very much is a product of its time
>>156089068Frankly it was all three and I’m surprised that anon didn’t mention BMB at allI guess because people still think USM is good, for some reason, despite it being the same dogshit Bendis always writes (except now with his self-insert being Spidey’s best friend and cucking his girlfriend)
>>156085876UltimatumUltimate never recovered from this.
