I see more and more people complaining about Indie Animated cartoons being 8 episodes, or selling merch, or having overarching stories and no filler episodes, and I for the life of me don't get it and I want to know if I'm just an idiot or if the others are idiotsFirst you need to consider that Western Animation was basically killed by the Disney, Nick, and CN, who all completely fucked up managing it, cheapened out the production, sent everything to rigs, and are showing absolutely 0 interest in continuing the medium in any way. Disney might AT BEST give you a few minutes of a 2D sequence in a movie. (The recent villain shorts they released for halloween look terrible and cheap, Canadian-made). CN doesn't exist anymore. Nick will only give a budget to Spongebob (and Spongebob spinoffs) which is currently the best show airing on any major network animation-wise. Make of that what you will.In short, animation in the West is basically having to be entirely rebuilt from the ground up. Does it suck that these shows can't do the big 20 episode seasons like the old days? Sure, but at least that motivates them to try and trim the fluff, and the animation doesn't cheap out. Is it a shame all the shows aren't episodic? Fuck no episodic shit was mandated by networks for decades and one of the things that helped Japanese mediums overtake Western ones, people bitched about this shit for decades you're high for wanting to go back to "no continuity whatsoever".Western animation feels like its beginning to recover from a mass extinction event, and hopefully in a way that will prevent what killed it last time from happening again.
>>156143991I ain't gonna read all that. Get a Tumblr blog.
>>156143991>I for the life of me don't get it and I want to know if I'm just an idiotYou're an idiot.
>>156143996Oh my bad I'll try again, this should help you young zoomerI see more and more people complaining about Indie Animated cartoons being 8 episodes, or selling merch, or having overarching stories and no filler episodes, and I for the life of me don't get it and I want to know if I'm just an idiot or if the others are idiotsFirst you need to consider that Western Animation was basically killed by the Disney, Nick, and CN, who all completely fucked up managing it, cheapened out the production, sent everything to rigs, and are showing absolutely 0 interest in continuing the medium in any way. Disney might AT BEST give you a few minutes of a 2D sequence in a movie. (The recent villain shorts they released for halloween look terrible and cheap, Canadian-made). CN doesn't exist anymore. Nick will only give a budget to Spongebob (and Spongebob spinoffs) which is currently the best show airing on any major network animation-wise. Make of that what you will.In short, animation in the West is basically having to be entirely rebuilt from the ground up. Does it suck that these shows can't do the big 20 episode seasons like the old days? Sure, but at least that motivates them to try and trim the fluff, and the animation doesn't cheap out. Is it a shame all the shows aren't episodic? Fuck no episodic shit was mandated by networks for decades and one of the things that helped Japanese mediums overtake Western ones, people bitched about this shit for decades you're high for wanting to go back to "no continuity whatsoever".Western animation feels like its beginning to recover from a mass extinction event, and hopefully in a way that will prevent what killed it last time from happening again.
>>156143991Ngl I just think part of my issue is a lot of indies are vanity projects rather than a thing just made for people outside of the writer and animators desires. sometimes you need retard minders and people grounding you or telling you not to do shit.
>>156144031What's the difference between a vanity project and a passion project? Mass appeal and soulless corporate slop?
>>156144046A good example for a vanity project is probably something like helluva boss. Almost everything about that story was garbage. You can feel that this was made specifcally just for her and no one else.While a passion project is pretty much someones dream project on their own standards and guidelines. Like old movies like the thief and the cobbler or anime like redline.
>>156143991There's no quality over quantity tradeoff, there are just fewer episodes, written without even a mini room
>>156144046You can still have a mass appeal project that's good. Robocop is legit a perfect movie but still has vast appeal. The issue is a lot of animators and writers now don't have life experience outside the internet and like working regular jobs, living normal lives. It's like if the Matrix started with Neo not working a shitty office job and having a cast of quirky friends he unites with to break free of the Matrix and Trinity is his sassy best friend and Morpheous has a relationship with some guy. That's no longer the Matrix, that's San Francisco.Unique experiences and walks of life allow for different points of view for fascinating results. The issue is like the way a lot of animators in the indie scene are they're all terminally online adults with next to no life experience so a lot of their work doesn't have the grit. Any teeth. Anything I'm looking for.I want either something WEIRD WEIRD if we're doing indie to get something i couldn't get from the mainstream or I want something at least that I can feel like a dude made that has a sense of the human experience I can fuck with. The issue is like this current crop of animators are all art and theater kids so I get neither anything of novelty or anything that feels human. It feels kinda just like a barely edgier DTVAMy favorite indie animator of the online brand is Krinkels tho so while I don't expect shit to be an orgy of gore and blood, I just want animations that don't feel like Pan Pizza a struggling animator who wants to earn mainstream respect who gets mocked online telling me a story about a struggling animator who struggles to get respect and who gets mocked online but also there's some Shonen battle shit thrown in.
>>156144277>>156144046It just feels like these people don't have any interesting stories TO tell, give me more PangeaTVs, more Double Kings of you wanna tell stories that most studios wouldn't bother with. But it feels like they just make stories that are just not really all that novel and charming. Stuff that would benefit from a studio and basic focus group testing to prevent retarded shit like Stolas or Jax that consume entire narratives.Basically if you're gonna be indie, BE something that you can't get anywhere else or at least if you're gonna emulate shit the studios put out at least get some general testing and quality control
>>156143991The older I get the more I realize that animation deserves to die
>>156143991>and no filler episodesThey're all filler episodes.
>>156144366You are a retard
>>156144366This. It's been downhill ever since it went off the stage.Gertie was pretty much the peak of what animation had to offer.
>>156143991I just don't understand why audiences thought indie would be the savior of animation You need a functioning industry for the medium to survive I've unironically seen people who were expecting indie to somehow replicate industry release schedules Indie fans and haters simply miss the 90s/2000s industry but don't want to admit itThe microsecond the industry gets its shit together, the indie scene will dry up
>>156144406Nice b8
>>156144423If you get baited by the truth, that's a (You) problem.
>>156144414The thing is I don't think the industry is going to get its shit together. They wanna go all in on AI and just replace the human element with AI
>>156144431Retard
>>156144147>helluva boss.Too bad its successful. Expect to see more garbage like this in the future.
>>156144031I wish indies had tard wranglers. Gooseworx needed one badly.>durr let me derail my show to troon out JaxFuck off.
>>156144489Explain how I'm wrong.Literally everything worthwhile about animation was either already in Gertie, in animation before Gertie, or would later show up in Snow White.
>>156143991>and I for the life of me don't get itIt’s jealousy. It’s excuses to shit on things because they are all upset that it’s not their amazing idea being made. Literally all these people are like this. The people who aren’t bitching are people who don’t have a bigger creative ambition. The “indie scene” is the enviable position to all aspiring artists and animators so they get jealous when they’re not the ones getting lucky. This includes the YouTube critics, as they are all failed art kids as well who needed to go into the field of critique because they can’t meet their creative goals.Half of all critique is basically just penis envy and you cannot convince me otherwise.
>>156144277>The issue is a lot of animators and writers now don't have life experience outside the internet and like working regular jobs, living normal lives.I hate to break it to you, but practically all television writers, even during prestige TV, are spoiled theater kids with no wagecuck experience. You look at the bios for writers of e.g. The Sopranos (including David Chase), and it's almost always straight from high school to getting an art's degree to working in the industry without ever having worked a McJob for even a week. I don't even see how working regular non-Hollywood jobs would even help at this point. I've worked retail for the past 10 years and everybody is just as internet poisoned as the people on here.
>>156144546YesI admit itIt should have been meI should be the one with the hit indie cartoon I've been animating all my life and I've gotten nowhere. I'd sell my soul if it meant I could become the next gooseworx
>>156144603The life experience line is just an argument people use to sound smart.Life is inherently boring
>>156144617Crybaby
>>156144626Seethe
>>156144658>>156144667What's with one word replies and this board these days?
>>156144703Problem?
>>156144703Bots
>>156143991Yeah I don't like most of the indie shows out right now but this "criticism" is totally retarded. There's already a cheap way for indie creators to tell a long story with limited funds, it's called a webcomic.
>>156144703cry cryboysneed
>>156144703I don't know what board it started on, but it's been a prevalent thing on /v/ for quite a while now
>>156145145I like howsoy andfam are still word filtered on 4chan years after zoomers stopped using them, but these faggoty unfunny buzzphrases still aren't somehow
>>156145295onions
>>156144291I feel the problem is that no matter how much people wanna scream 'INDIE IS DIFFERENT FROM INDUSTRY/YOU CAN MAKE ANYTHING' - it's becoming very apparent that only select formulas will end up in the eyes of many people. That usually falls into:>female protagonist (gay is optional but often the norm)>quirky cast and colorful setting >lighthearted but adult at times Anything that doesn't fall into that category will usually get buried or never talked about. Take the recent pilot, Erastz, for example. It's got NOTHING that makes the usual indie crowd tick but it's a genuinely good alt-WW1 show that is truly weird. It doesn't have an eye candy character (there are female characters but they're usually grotesque beings with female voices) and the atmosphere is very dark. This is one of the things that truly is experimental. I'm glad that it started picking up with the cosplay community and some people are trying to make outfits of the characters.
>>156144617This is why you don’t get anywhere though. Instead of trying to make your cartoon, you’re bitching about someone else’s. You can start to build an audience and get people interested in your work, or you can just whine. It’s up to you.
>>156145295>>156145482oops, let's try that agains𐐬y
>>156144147This is a pretty aribtrary distinction that boils down to "If I like it, it's a passion project."
>>156143991>you're high for wanting to go back to "no continuity whatsoever".Cartoons' first obligation should be to make you laugh, if I wanted to watch something more substantial, I'd watch a movie. You'll never make me hate Looney Tunes
>>156145750>Cartoons' first obligation should be to make you laughNot true what so ever. Absolute midwit post.
>>156143991>complaining about Indie Animated cartoons being 8 episodesWe are starving for entertainment.>or selling merchI'm pretty sure these are a faction within the mainstream animation industry trying to police their indie peers.>or having overarching storiesNo comment.>no filler episodesSome characters are genuinely so appealing that we would gladly take additional episodes of them just living their life.
>>156145750
tldr?
>>156145864look up the definition of cartoon
>>156146548You lost
>>156145488Did Ralph Bakshi make this?
more Space Kingless Gameoverse
>>156143991>Essentially has completely creative freedoms and control. >Copies the same bullshit TV execs has force fed us for the past decade and a half. Might as well pay for a streaming service or get cable if they're just gonna copy TV.
>>156144046something that's shit but personally pleases the person making it=vanity
>>156145750>every cartoon MUST be looney tunesThis kind of thinking is part of why western animation lost to anime. Pigeonholing an entire medium into one specific genre is fucking retarded.
>>156143991>I see more and more people complaining about Indie Animated cartoons being 8 episodes, or selling merch, or having overarching stories and no filler episodesAll valid complaints. Were you inspired after seeing my post?>Fuck no episodic shit was mandated by networks for decades and one of the things that helped Japanese mediums overtake Western ones, people bitched about this shit for decades you're high for wanting to go back to "no continuity whatsoever".I like episodic cartoons and I like serialised cartoons, doesn't mean they can't coexist. In fact, I like episodic slice of life cartoons.>Western animation feels like its beginning to recover from a mass extinction event, and hopefully in a way that will prevent what killed it last time from happening again.I love the indie animation "Buy my merch and I'll grant you 1 episode per every several months" style of rollout, nothing better than the '80s style toy advertisement cartoon but every character is a gay/trans quirk chungus.
>>156144414The Industry didn't create animation, Windsor McKay did.
>>156145488Dead Gods is a project I'm following pretty closely and i like thr aesthetic and premise.Not sure if the guy wants to make shorts or a comic but he is just cranking out concept art.
It's shit like this that make me scared to create my own stuff that I want to create because you guys will say it's a problem, a vanity project, and assume shit from me just because I am doing what I want.Even if it's the same as everyone else's, you feel it's an issue because you personally don't like it and even then some could be better than others even if they all have a brown girl who happens to have an unconventional personality one would find "quirky".I dunno man, seems like you guys have a hatred of indie creators because you love punching down to make yourselves feel better partially cuz you're jealous like >>156144617If you guys were able to make your own series, it would be about a hot curvy woman that has a relationship with a little boy with fanservice and cool sakuga action and ENF, and people would call it vanity even if you guys call everything else vanity.You don't have to like indie cartoonists, but don't act like that things you don't like are a crime
>>156147898
>>156147959>It's shit like this that make me scared to create my own stuff that I want to create because you guys will say it's a problem, a vanity project, and assume shit from me just because I am doing what I want.Why care what people think?
>>156143991It's leftist gatekeeping.Rats jumping to a safe boat as the shil sinks and pushing off anybody else who tries to board.
>>156147959Get over yourself, you fucking loser.If you don't want people to judge what you make, then don't make it public.
>>156144521Goose unintentionally pushing gender stereotypes will never not be funny to me.
>>156144008kek
>>156143996The only real hope for today’s animation is for lone or small team creators to use the advancing AI tools for animation. The established cliques are too dug into their errors.> and hopefully in a way that will prevent what killed it last time from happening again.That would be wokeness, awful animation schools and their alumni clinging to their educational pipeline, trend-based thinking over original thinking, careerism which simultaneously rejects making what audiences really like, and other factors.Executives aren’t included since executives are glad to make money, hence why they give Genndy Tartakovsky a lot of projects. Millennials haven’t reached Genndy’s level.
>>156148532Yes let's take the Ring and use it against Sauron
>>156144008Not enough subway surfer and key jingling
>>156148532kill yourself niece molester
>>156148612In LotR, Sauron represents the impulse to dominate, and the indie communities are driven by it as in pic related.They don’t ask questions like “what is lovecraft’s cat’s style all about?” “What are his mechs like?” “How could his games feature animation?” Since all they care about is imposing what they want with no concern for what I’m already doing.AI enables every aspect of my vision.>>156148775Anybody else want to speak for indies and industry besides this infamous loser?
>>156149313Nobody asks you anything because you're a mentally ill loser.
>>156149359Keep your internal monologue to yourself, I don’t want your insecurities.I also don’t want animation community perverts interrogating me, but since you’re gay you do.Again: can anyone defend Glitch, etc, or shall we only see gay losers babbling away for their sake?
>>156149462>I also don’t want animation community perverts interrogating me>posting on /co/kek
>>156143991>>156144008Not reading your long ass post defending tranny shit, geg.
>>156149462Only so far in that it is indie animation and has a right to exist.
>>156144046 Something like Monkey Wrench
>>156143991SpongeBob never said any of that.
>>156144626If you have an interesting life or a rich history you can pull from your experiences in writing. That's like shit so many writers do is they put real experiences they've had into film and shows lol. You're retarded.
>>156144603You can have lives that involve you doing shit that's non online despite having a job. Just having real experiences, real moments, doing shit irl, life will happen to you and you'll have stupid stories to tell about your family, your friends, your past. Great creatives of course can do shit that is outside of them but it is useful to have a consultant or such to talk about everything and pull from so you don't just write some bullshit.
>>156145488That's because animation fans are manchildren. I'm also a machild but I have somewhat of an emotional depth to me beyond an interest in disney and Pokémon. Appealing to animation fans means you're appealing to bottom barrel retards who will not shut the fuck up about shipping and headcanons I'm afraid. Thanks for telling me about this show it is interesting!
>>156153229DudeThere's literally nothing to do>Life has been made too expensive by the you know whos>Dating is a shitshow >Can't even get retail jobs anymore thanks to mass migration Name me something interesting you did in the past 3 years
>>156147959Tbh, anyone who creates something is creating something of value. Even the lowest common denominator trash is still fundamentally art. I of course have my own desires and things I want to do to make my own show but even I understand making a show about women and men being repeatey hit with fetishized cartoon gags would be little gratuitous and essentially a pornographic masturbatory aid. Nothing wrong with that but I understand literally the only people it would appeal to are people with kinks like me. Instead I'd lean more on something with more appeal first to show people something that I'm capable of creating unique concepts and interesting worlds before I jump into deranged insane person mode and sink into my own sick fantasies and perverse lust. You should of course write about things you find interesting or unique but just don't get your head up your ass and write something that only you'd like without realizing you're presenting it to the general public and being mad they dont get you. After all you need to have some people watch it. You need to have a human connection with them for art to.be entertained.
>>156153289Moved from my parents, lived in the ghetto cuz it was the only place I could afford, taught in a title one school, got jumped by a fuckhead kid trying to steal my phone and chased him down on foot till he relinquished it. Worked for a a brand new theme park on opening day, was threatened by a landlord with eviction because I left cookware in a sink (yes, this happened, thank you cunt roommate), finally met a some good friends I met online and hung out and got to finally chill in meatspace, did a haunted house for a job, started cooking for myself more and found it while tedious heavily enjoyable. Overcame my fear of rollercoasters and rode some world class ones. Spat on the face by a homeless man because he thought I was trying to steal his possessions (I wasnt), asked by preteens I fw if abdl Ice Spice (I had no response to this my ass was flabbergasted), remembered how to draw lips even if I still kinda suck at it and my fundamentals need work.Idk beat Condemned on Hard Mode melee weapons only yesterday and defeated the Shadow Crystal Bosses, I find these things somewhat interesting unless you mean like sky diving and writing a book and fucking a ten out of ten woman. I think I live a pretty charmed life all things considered
>>156153342Thats not interesting desu
>>156153352Okay man, I'm sorry I didn't jump through motorcycle hoops on fire the fuck do you want?
