So I just finished reading Miracleman. It was ok for the most part, though I didn't like the Silver Age part where we've got no idea what Young Miracleman is going to do.Is the series over? Marvel just ported MM to their universe(though it's a completely different guy), but I really can't see the point of doing that, since part of MM's appeal is how he changes the world, which isn't something that can be done in Earth-616(not permanently at least). Without that he's just another flying superguy, which has already been done a dozen times.Also what was the deal with MM and Young MM? Was Mike Moran into Dickie all this time? And he thought Dick was gay too?
>>156179851Most people, myself included, stopped at the end of Moore's run.
>>156179878
>>156179878>>156179905This. Everything else is shit.
>>156179905That's correct.
>>156179851>Is the series over?It's on ice again ever since the Gaiman allegations came out
>>156180514i thought the spawn guy owned it now
>>156180540No Marvel and Gaiman teamed up on his ass to swipe the rights.
>>156180584ewwww
What was with that black fire guy?I feel like he was barely a character, he only had 3 lines of dialogue in the entire series.
>>156181088the black guy who turns into a white one with sapphire teeth?
>>156181106No the one with fire powers who Miracleman recruits so that he can say he's not racist.
>>156181088>>156181106I'm certain he mean the black guy with fire powers who helped them fight Kid Miracleman.I think Moore originally intended to have a bit of a superhero universe in his Miracleman run, but later scaled those ideas back and reduced that guy's role. He'd already done some set up for him, so he didn't cut him out of the story entirely
>>156181088Lost human god. I feel that book 3 was supposed to be longer.
>>156179851Kind of a lazy self-reference, isn't it?
Went from "get the fuck away from me you child molesting pouf" to "how could you do this, you were like a brother to me".
>>156181088>>156181184The idea was that Huey Moon/Firedrake was one in a long line of Firedrakes, humans who had the gene to create fire from themselves. It was because of Firedrake activity on Earth that the Qys decided to investigate the planet and sent out an expedition. It was because of that expedition that a Qys explorer crash-landed in the late 40s, leading to Gargunza's study of it and the creation of the Miracleman Family.>>156181201>I think Moore originally intended to have a bit of a superhero universe in his Miracleman run, but later scaled those ideas back and reduced that guy's role. He'd already done some set up for him, so he didn't cut him out of the story entirelyYeah based on the dialogue in Olympus and the timeline Moore and Steve Moore did, Moore wanted the Firedrakes to be indirectly responsible for the creation of the Miracleman Family
>>156181868How so?
>>156184105Dez Skinn's finest hour.
>>156183376very informativethank you
>>156179851This kino deserved better.
>>156179851Gaiman's shit is what he always turns it into "mythical fairy funtime ooh everyone is a god", it was insufferable wish I had stopped at Moore's run.
Moore's stuff stands alone. The Gaiman stuff was fine, but clearly building up to material that will now never come.The 616 Miracle Man taking so long to appear is basically just Marvel giving in. They clearly wanted Gaiman to finish his trilogy, but with all the sex crime allegations, that'll never happen, so they've just started with some 616 shit.Don't go expecting or hoping to see more after this. I'll be surprised if Marvel even bother to keep the post-Moore material in physical print.
>>156179851Miraclewoman was supposed to secretly be evil and manipulated MM to make a sexual pass at YMM to turn him against YMM and get MM into killing him.Dark Ages was supposed to have Miraclewoman free Kid Miracleman from limbo and he'd kill her and the ensuing MM/KMM would wipe out all life on Earth save for Miracleman, who would be stuck on a dead Earth.
Goddamn it KNEEL GAY MAN. Why couldn't you keep your dick dry and in your panties?
>>156179851Miracle was not about the Man.
>>156179851My idea for the inevitable crossover event would be that MM would at first be excited that he somehow managed to visit another world that was based on comic books. He would be friendly at first, wanting to establish closer contact between the two worlds, but notice that despite the presense of advanced science the lives of the average citizen is no different from the ones of the 'mundane realism' era. This would lead him to the conclusion that it is still a comic book world, but one that is based on a hypothetical 'mundane realism' world where the Era of Miracles never happened.He gains advanced knowledge of Earth-616, but not of the recent events since in his world comics started changing dramatically in the 80s.Incedentally, there also happens to be a comic in 616 about Miracleman's imaginary adventures, though he's called Marvelman in this version.
There's so much wrong with how Gaiman writes miracleman. There was already a setup for Miracleman to start questioning his role without teasing the return of Young Miracleman (a character most people have no attachment to since lets be real nobody read Marvelman and they're totally different anyways) for four issues and turning Miracleman into a mustache twirling rapist. Every single idea Gaiman had for the series was just a ripoff of something like that whole issue that rips off the prisoner. It's like Gaiman can't help but tell us how we're supposed to be feeling about the characters. Shit makes me mad.
>>156188796loving rape, he couldn't help but put it into his work
>>156188796>turning Miracleman into a mustache twirling rapistI wouldn't go that far. I interpreted it as him being so used to people accepting his advances he assumes anyone would want to have sex with him.Which is why he theorized Dickie might be gay after studying how he acted in the old comics, and then deciding he'd be ok with them fucking even though he just got trasported from the fifties.
>>156188796Wasn't it his first comic?
>>156190010No, he'd been writing comics for a few years before he took over Miracleman.
>>156190415Oh yeah. I don't know why I thought that. Moore's Miracleman didn't end until 1989.
The only nu-MM bit that was interesting went nowhere and now that the jew fell out of favor, this will never be finished.
>>156179851Can you imagine Disney+ deciding to rape Miracleman?
>>156179851>>156184252>>156181868What's the implication? That there is yet another layer to Gargunza's brainwashing we don't know about yet?
>>156192350Possibly, another failsafe.
>>156192306What a shitshow.
>>156184252When they finally adapt this comic, either to a film or series, this quote better be in the trailers>>156179905>>156179878Correct
>>156183107Insane how much Buckingham's art has changed in 30 years
>>156193941what the fuck is going on here
>>156193956Anon, I...
>>156193964what retarded nonsense did gaiman do after moore?
>>156193941Buckingham is a Lego chad
>>156193941Oh, that is unfortunate.I'm fine with the stars in the dark of their bodies thing for Miracleman or those aligned with him since it conveys they're otherworldly and seen with the same wonder felt from the night sky, but Bates was supposed to be the living image of carnal power, eliciting dread more than awe, like looking into a cavernous pit. His shadows should be sheer darkness, even as luminous energy radiates off him.His eyebrows and grin being reduced makes him look pleased with himself being a bit naughty not unhinged from the joy of maiming people like pinatas.And the excess blood looks more like he's playing with paint.The panel opening with Dickie and Miracleman's expressions, looking away from each other does a better job of signalling the mood of the scene than framing them simply seated near each other.Miracleman remaining laid down an simply rolling over and pulling Dickie close has more suggestiveness than simply leaning in.Their faces remaining shadowed or obscured helps what they imagine is being discussed or intend to remain unclear until Dickie's clear reaction as the punchline. Seeing their flat expressions before it isn't a disservice but I feel it misses the opportunity to setup the uneasy tone. Now it just looks like the forceful approach in a BL manga instead of a moment of confusion and distress.Let me be clear his work is still solid, but the art has gone slightly awry.
>>156192350Originally, Gaiman's plan was that Miracleman getting all Homo on Dickie was a manipulation by Miraclewoman, trying to make him kill Miracleman when he lashes out in trauma from the fact he was gayraped as a kid.Long story, Gaiman's plan to end Silver Age was Miraclewoman being evil and still in love with Gargunza, she plotted this on purpose to kill him. When that dumbass plan fails she revives Johnny Bates and he destroys the world – leading to Dark Ages.He's not brainwashed, he's just so betrayed and butthurt by attempted buttsex that it permanently gives him a Johnny Tulpa telling him to kill everyone. Bit of an overreaction.
>>156194098Feel similarly. Especially with the expressions, the original series had them emote very strongly to show the heightened emotions their alter egos gave them. Right Dicky doesn't even look scared he just looks mildly confused
>>156194144that's all so retarded
>>156188709That's retarded Just only use the campy kid friendly MM and friends in 616 with the reveal being that they are from a parallel universe and the Moore/Gaiman version is a Mojoverse production with robots, complete with mass murdering Kid Miracleman being a robot who gets a swift reality lesson when he learns how low his power level when dealing with heroes like Rogue, Carol, Spiderman, Colossus and such.Evil Kid Miracleman being a robot who keeps getting his shit kicked in and basically hanging out with Spiral would be a better usage and making Miracleman his 50s self would be the best way to integrate them without raping them
>>156194647This feels petty. Moore put in the work to make his comic palpable superhero horror, and you're basically wanting to undo that in favor of the version that was just a ripoff for profit.
>>156179851I really hated how the book implied it'd turn Young Miracleman into Kid Miracleman 2.0. Came across as extremely lazy writing.I'd prefer if Dickie became a benevolent, yet flawed adversary, where his more moderate stance would genuinely challenge Mike's power, point out the failures of his government and poke holes in his utopian ideology. He could've wanted to overthrow his regime and make the world go back to "normal" - or at least what he perceives to be normal, considering Dickie lived most of his life basically trapped in a silver age comic world version of the Matrix.
Superman Prime from the Infinity Crisis shit comes off like a poor attempt at Kid Miracleman.
>>156195925because he is
>>156195925Superboy-Prime
>>156185259https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-chronology-of-everything-almost.html?m=1Here is the timeline that Moore orginally had in mind V for vendetta is also a alternate timeline where miracleman never rediscovers his powers
>>156192350why is he jacked
>>156198418Goddamn. That's really cool.
>>156189288Following in the footsteps of rape fetishist Alan Moore
>>156193941Wtf Neil Gayman, you fucking pedo rapist
>>156198714Moore doesn't need more glazing as is, but I want to take the opportunity to lament this is something I don't think enough people dwell on about what was lost when publisher antics dissuaded him from being involved in the industry.As can be seen from this, Top 10, Supreme and Captain Britain his mind imagines small details and big picture stuff. If allowed to blossom he could have given DC, Marvel and Image plenty of long life toys and sand castle molds for their sandbox to flourish with, but those at DC and even Jim Lee focused on the art of the deal then, and even now Brevoort of all people admits reluctantly that's what including Miracleman has boiled down to.I've heard a sentiment before that some of the gimmicky and stagnation woes of major comic publishers during the 90s and 00s were a result of creatively bankrupt business guys like Ike Perlmutter who snuck their way in, and while that may hold water I look how things are in their absence and wonder if any amount of burned effigies answers or helps.
>>156195208>the book implied it'd turn Young Miracleman into Kid Miracleman 2.0I don't think YM would've turned into a second Bates though.I was under the impression that he would've turned into MM's adversary on a more ideological level.
>>156198759do i, desu
>pushed mm to try and fuck young mm>likes to fly down to earth and fuck random guyswhat's her deal?
>>156200644I dunno?That she's a woman?
>>156198759Moore put rape in his work because he hates it. Gayman put rape in his work because he loves it.
>>156194899Given the shitty state of Captain Marvel these days, going back to the camp roots would actually make Miracleman sell way more via hopecore vibes. Plus give Marvel a comic they can sell to kids and present him in an ideological way that keeps him viable and makes him different from Sentry.Plus you still keep Kid Miracleman, who gets repurposed as a literal abberation while still being usable, just neutered and put off the shelf so he can still be used without being OP.
>>156200644Her character seems to like the stir the pot simply because she can. She oscillates between belittling them and offering condolence when they think it would be beneficial. We're lab rats to her, but that doesn't mean some people don't love their lab rats. Emphasis on some.
>>156200644Basically she was always evil and pretended to be a goody goody because she wanted to rule the earth and have MM as her apathetic fuck boy who let her rule in secret while he served as the front man who takes all of the heat and blame.
>>156200968classic foid behavior
>>156200968>Basically she was always evilBeing raped repeatedly by jew cock would do that to any woman
>>156201242i thought he was a mexican
>>156201281He was, and he worked for Hitler, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't intended to be Jewish.
>>156201303baseda mexican nazi
In hindsight, wasn't letting Bates by himself after what he's done instead of killing him or keeping a regular eye on him incredibly stupid? Was Mike just expecting him to never use the magic word ever again?It's like Mike is retarded even in his Miracleman form.
>>156201880I mean the point of the scene was that he was gonna kill him but realized KMM turned back into kid Johnny who seemed repentant. He still checked in with the office to see if Bates was still there in a later story and Bates was still catatonic.Even when the Qys explorers stopped by to see if they needed to kill him, they couldn't find any trace of Kid Miracleman in him (because Kid Miracleman hid himself pretty far in Bates' mind) and left him alone.
>>156201880The only reason he said the word a second time was because he was being violently raped in the boy's home after years of abuse. Can't really plan for that.
>>156202131Maybe not let him in a boy's home where he can be raped?
>>156202655That can happen anywhere.
>>156193941wew
>>156193941>Insane how much Buckingham's art has changed in 30 yearsfor the worse
>>156201880read
Miracle was not about the Man.
>>156194144>butthurt by attempted buttsexI'm sorry, that does not compute.
>>156192350>>156198246>>156203672They're having a hard time drawing Miracleman.
>>156204849Admittedly his costume looks great, but has a lot of moving pieces that the artist would need to keep track of. They already stripped it down in the first Avengers issue that came out this week.Also can someone please tell me what the fuck is going on with Miracleman? Did Gaiman finish his stuff? Also WHY THE FUCK IS HE IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE!?!?! I stopped reading comics for a while, but jesus christ I didn't think I missed that much.
>>156204932>Did Gaiman finish his stuff?Technically, ends on a cliffhanger >>156179851>Also WHY THE FUCK IS HE IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE!?!?!Narratively? Some nonsense about hidden history and origin boxes.Actually? Search for interviews on the matter and it's basically that Marvel spent time and money legally trying to fence it in, and after middling results from the attempt to reignite interests through Gaiman's continuation they're going for the more direct gimmick of putting a draw as bait and dipping the hook into the mainline waters for the collectors, speculators, comictubers, deathbattle scene and the trend chasing crowds around them to bite so they'll make back their money.>I didn't think I missed that much.You didn't.This will go the same as Doomsday Clock.
>>156194144How did MM's daughter fit into all of this? She always gave off villain vibes.
>>156200549SecondedI always thought the implication was that YM, although naive was going to learn more about the 'real world' but retain most his comic book good guy morals and realize that MM's world was still a begin tyranny and dismantle it.So basically a retelling of Gru's Squadron Supreme with curse words and light nudity.
>>156202655There is more kid-on-kid ass rape in children's facilities than in adult prisons. Also? It was an Alan Moore comic, there HAD to be rape.
>>156204932The Leach redesign is one of my favorite superhero costumes ever.
>>156205428what the fuck
>>156205534>In an Alan Moore thread but doesn't know
>>156206123I think anon is more shocked at the first part.
>>156207072what a pussy
>>156200644She's like Carol if she was hot.
>>156198810I've been looking at his comics more in depth, the behind the scenes stuff like this, and I truly believe the industry has it in for good comics.
>>156180584Yeah, it wa a 2009 trial about venom rights, ended with miracleman at marvel and angela at marvel. Marvel used gaiman as a secret weapon, those marvel/disney lawyers are the real deal for sure.
>>156210549All that shit is so sordid.
>>156198810>Moore doesn't need more glazing as isHe kind of deserves it, at least for comics books. I haven't read his prose books.This, Watchmen, From Hell, what Big Numbers and Halo Jones were meant to be, the entire ABC line.
>H-Hayai!
>>156211581>I haven't read his prose books.Ever read his comic scripts? It's that.
>>156212741>Ever read his comic scripts?They are so goddam dense that it makes me wonder why he just didn't do layouts himself.Moore is actually a decent artist.
>>156211414He doesn't know what he's talking aboutThe case was over the rights for Angela/Cogliostro/Medieval Spawn and payment owed to GaimanGaiman won and took full control of Angela rights in exchange for waiving any claim to Cogliostro and Medieval Spawn, and sent Angela to Marvel
>>15621284920th century people were able to read large chunks of text.
>>156200644>MM and MW have hundreds of kidsAre they all from them?or does MM have his own harem?Would explain why she fucked that normie
>>156204109tbf most artists get worse after 30 years, that's not a unique thing to Buckingham
>>156204932Short answer, Quesada spent a huge amount of Disney money buying the property and a good amount of Marvel money pre-sale stealth funding Gaiman 's legal fights on the basis that it would be an ever green book series ala Watchmen but it flopped sales wise and Neil getting #MeToo'ed meant it can never be finished. So this is Marvel salvaging shit.Long answer? Marvel wants Bendis era New Avengers back but the mini setting it up had such low orders combined with low orders for the main book, that Marvel is going into ultra desperation mode to salvage things from undoing OMD to turning Zdarsky's OC boyfriend creation into Miracleman to try and boost sales
>>156212849>Moore is actually a decent artist.I'll say, that picture's pretty rad.
>
>>156215407gooner freak
>>156179851What the fuck is up with Marvel's refusal to keep this series in print? They bought these comics and clearly want to use the characters but don't seem to make it easy to buy these comics. I can only see Spanish and French translations listed and even those seem to be running out, what the hell?
>>156204849Imo it's because of the coloring. His costume looks best with solid colors to pop more and if there's shading, it's done well with ink, rarely covered in crosshatch/lighting. He won't ever look completely right since his design clashes with modern drawing styles used in Marvel. It's been a decade since I read the Moore run, but I don't remember a panel where MM is there in broad daylight, the whole run is done with a lot of dark spotting which also works to give him his look.
>>156179851How many Miracles can a Man produce?
>>156216345Marvel doesn't keep anything in print outside of like five books.
>>156216345It sold for shit. That's fucking why.The three Moore volumes sold so fucking badly as HCs, that they never got a softcover release until Marvel churned out an Epic Collection about 7-8 years after the last Moore HC came out, with the unsold copies of the three HC books ending up being dumped onto Ollies.The Moore Omnibus sold slightly better but still heavily underperformed.It sold so badly that the Gaiman Golden and Silver Age didn't even get HC releases, just softcover trades. Though Golden Age was given a super small print run and was OOP when the Silver Age ran.
>>156218565The publishing of Moore's run has been a mess. I wonder how things would have gone if Warrior didn't go under. The problem is Leach was already replaced during the run in Warrior for being too slow.
>>156205259that i recall – she didn't. After Bates destroys earth in Dark Ages, all the Miracle children give up on Earth and vacate, including Winter. Leaving MM and Bates as the only two who stay behind (and maybe Young Miracleman). Also Miracleman tries helping the humans rebuild, but the humans stuck behind all utterly hate him now and refuse. Eventually he "commits suicide" by transforming into Mike Moran again, the reverse of before when Mike did the same.
>>156201880I think he implied pretty strongly in the chapter where Bates transforms, that he deliberately let himself ignore helping Bates. Because he was dealing with so much mental and emotional strain that he'd rather ignore the most horrible part of it than add it to his problems.
>>156219002not many scenes from Dark Ages were revealed. One more was that after he destroys all civilisation on earth, Bates finally calms down because there's nothing else on earth that can hurt him anymore. Enough that he returns to lucidity and has a conversation with Miracleman on the moon. No idea what he does after that, maybe he just stays there so he can rock back and forth forever.
>>156218959It still would've gone badly because Moore didn't want anything to do with Dez Skinn at some point. Miracleman and V would've gone on hiatus when they did.
>>156181088Hey, sometimes 3 lines of dialogue is all you need
>>156218565kind of surprising that it sold so badly, given that Moore wrote it and how well-regarded it is
>>156200968Now knowing this was the plan it makes her actions make more sense in context
>>156194647I would be tempted to at least put the idea that maybe the campy 50s miracleman stuff might not be a dream and the 80s series might actually be the dream world instead which would linger in that version of morans mindIt never is confirmed in the end but its the idea of it that lingers
>>156184252Love this panel.
>>156221596He took his name off. Probably didn't help.
>>156222340I thought it was still well-known that he wrote it, and the book's reputation together with that would make it sell
>>156195925You can say that, but Prime has always been more interesting.
>>156193941thanks for the comparative.
>>156222985It was not. If they got published back in the early 00s, it would've sold because people were talking about it online and in other places. By the time Marvel got around to reprinting Miracleman, Marvel couldn't really promote it with Alan Moore's name, comics news coverage was getting more fractured, and most of the fans that would've cared back in the 00s had left and replaced by a new fanbase that had no context for these.It's also highly likely that Marvel wanted to avoid having Disney pay attention to anything controversial in it so they didn't hype it up as much as other stuff.
>>156223049Prime has never been interesting.
>>156179851I don't need any Miracle, Man!
>>156213022>turning Zdarsky's OC boyfriend creation into Miracleman to try and boost salesIt worked on me, though it’s less about seeing Colton as MM and more about how the origin box and Mike Moran play into 616. I do wish they’d gone with the classic suit though. Maybe they’ll have Colton go off on his own “golden age” adventures.
>>156225498>It worked on mewhy though
Lame and gay. Just another example of Alan Moore whining that the only way to be heroic in a super fashion is installing luxury gay space communism.
>>156226415Quit being dumb.
>>156226267Honesty, because I’ve been waiting 15+ years for Marvel to do ANYTHING with the character. I’m a huge Captain Marvel (Shazam) fan, and the deconstructionist approach, rawness, and scarcity of MM greatly appealed to me. I read the original Moore issues (thanks to a generous anon who scanned the entire series), and dreamed of the Gaiman story being finished. That took forever to happen (and was disappointing) and is now dead in the water again, so MM being introduced into the mainline universe was the only way forward for a continuation. While using Colton and an origin box is a little hamfisted, it got the job done and created the possibility of Moran existing in 616. I don’t have high hopes for it all, but it’s made me curious and got me to purchase my first Avengers title in a long time. Basically, I like Miracleman and want to see him in more comics.
>>156224314Prime has occasionally been interesting.
>>156227087You like a character so much you want to see him ruined? How does that make sense?
>>156193941>>156194098Very interesting.
>>156193941Dude......I had no idea there was this much of a difference between the originals and the reprints. I loved the idea of having cleaned up scans that really show off the linework considering they never went digital, but this is shocking. Which isn't entirely to say I don't like anything about it. But god damn. Is this just the Gaiman issues?
>>156229723The Leach/Davis parts of Miracleman (Marvelman at the time) were published in black and white. They were meant to look like pic related.
>>156221322That's a strange looking dog.
>>156229723That poster (>>156193941) has shit super wrongThe first three issues of the Silver Age were redrawn from scratch. Not recolored.Only the Moore run and only Gaiman 's Golden Age arc got recolored
>>156231534Did you link the wrong post?
>>156228362I don’t presume that a character will be ruined just by sheer usage. Nothing can take away Moore’s Miracleman or ruin it, as that story is complete. Is Winnie the Pooh ruined by all the recent horror media now that it’s public domain? Characters don’t need to sit on a shelf forever; interesting, entertaining stories can still be had.
>>156232912True, it won't do any damage to Moore's run, but it may possibly tarnish the character's image if it reaches enough people, so that no one new would ever want to read Moore's run or revisit the character. >Characters don’t need to sit on a shelf foreverThey don't need to be reused either. If you have a story to tell, you can make new characters.
>>156233600>>Characters don’t need to sit on a shelf foreverI always felt like that excuse was being used by Bendis' defenders back in the day to defend him wrecking a bunch of characters
>>156232018Which one?
>>156201880It was incredibly stupid, but they couldn't have had a huge fight later if Mike just adopted Bates right there.
>>156200644This looks like Carol if she was really into cnc sex with helpless shotas
>>156203672Power couple
Now with two insane hiatus (and likely permacancelling) I am confused once againIt’s been forever since I read the original run and a while since the new stuff. Can somebody with more knowledge than me explain or give theories as to what was meant to be going on with >the OG ending where Miraclewoman seems to have a sinister smile after TELLING Miracleman that Dickie is gay and he should kiss him, this triggers Dickie who punches him and flees and this pleases Miraclewoman for some reason, as I recall when they re-released it they straight up changed her face to no longer smile sinisterly so dropped plot? What was the motive now? Because either she’s an incompetent idiot or manipulative and evil>why exactly did Kid Miracleman go mental and kill everyone just because Mike/Miracleman figured out he stayed in his super form for decades? Who cares? He was just running a company up to that point so why the turn?>what was the purpose of making Dickie a rape victim by some man at the orphanage?>any theories on how kid Miracleman was surviving or if he was just a mental idea or what? In that pocket dimension I assume as fucked up as Kid Miracleman’s body was, given he’s superhuman he could probably still survive it. And perhaps he would be revived by Miraclewoman to cause the downfall of Olympus Eve and the Apple style>what was dickies endgame with his new cult to try and stop Miracleman? How?
Anybody else find it laughable that the British government somehow finds an alien ship. And their only real use of this is to make superheroes who they never use and just attempt to destroy them with a nuke. Like, what the fuck was the point
What was the point of Young Nastyman? Dies off screen before story begins. Just looks like they turned Kid Miracleman into him based on the costume Shame because there’s an interesting idea that he was brainwashed to be this comical villain for villains sake
>>156235644Ahem, well, it's because he was a Mick Anglo character from the 1950's comics. You know? The comics the characters originally came from? The ones used to justify the plot device of planted memories and simulated reality the Moore run hinged on? The point was basically to analyse what someone like Miracleman would have been if the conditioning involved the scenario of being the bad guy.
>>156235592It was too dangerous.
>>156235592>>156236310They were gonna make more.The Miraclemen were just the test subjects, but brainwashing them obviously didn’t work because YNman escaped and was a complete Lunatic, raping and burning down a whole village,then Miraclewoman went AWOL. They wanted to wipe the slate clean because Gargunza was clearly not being safe, and try again.But when Gargunza vamoosed they didn’t know how to use the Tech like he did. All they could make was Big Ben.
>>156235568Gaiman confirmed that MW was evil. She’s in love with Gargunza for making her a Superwoman and thinks MM is too soft. She wanted Dickie to kill MM from gay trauma, leaving her as the new ruler. Gaiman was gonna write this if Silver Age continued.KM’s been traumatised offscreen by how shit the real world is. Staying in his superform was a Fight or Flight response to always protect himself from humanity ever since the Nuke. When MM comes back he realises there’s something out there that can hurt him again, and he’s driven to destroy it. MM realises at the end that KM – Kid to the End – still thinks to some extent that this is all a bad dream, and they’re the enemies out to get him.To give Dickie a hamfisted reason why he might try and kill MM for kissing him.KM survived in Infraspace, but he’s not in Dickie’s head that’s just a gay-trauma illusion. They said his Biology prevented him from dying even from the Rubble. He transformed back to Bates to avoid Pain, instead of survival. It’s a parallel to Young Miracleman and YNman and MM all reverting to human when they’re in pain, all characters instinctively are trying to escape suffering.Dickie’s just being a Middleman hippie. Gaiman said KM comes back and destroys the world and Dickie just sits there doing nothing.
>>156235644>>156235800In my Read, YN was a parallel to Kid Miracleman, to help you understand his thinking.Goes from a dreamlike world where everything is so simple and the world reverts to status quo for him, to one where he kills people but nothing gets fixed, and he has to lie in his own hyperrealistic filth waiting for things to get better like in the life he grew up in.
Are there any b&w reprints?
>>156235568>Dickie a rape victim by some man at the orphanage?He was raped by two bullies for the lulz and he finally gave in and turned back into KM who had been force ghosting him and tempting him to let him back out.
>>156235568>>why exactly did Kid Miracleman go mental and kill everyone just because Mike/Miracleman figured out he stayed in his super form for decades? Who cares? He was just running a company up to that point so why the turn?Because the idea Moore was doing was, if you stay in your superform too long you become completely distant from humanity. It happened with Miracleman (he severs almost all ties with his Mike Moran self), and the idea was that Johnny being in his Kid Miracleman form since being a kid, became mentally unstable
>>156237160He's talking about Dickie Dauntless (the reveal he's talking about happened in Gaiman's Silver Age), not Johnny Bates
>>156235568>Who cares? He was just running a company up to that point so why the turn?I'm not as refreshed or informed as others, but for this I recall in hindsight and even see from unfulfilled ideas like mentioned here >>156219111 Bates being aware Gargunza's operation was still out there was unnerving, you saw what happened to Michael, who spent less time stewing in dread over it.I don't think Bates was interested in really running that company outside of it providing a cover for him and a small sense of power.He tells Michael he wasn't reluctant to use his powers to harm people in grotesque ways, so he didn't turn, he was already indulging sadism.
>>156233600I don’t think Miracleman has enough of a reputation or image to tarnish. Good stories stick around, despite what comes after, so I don’t fear that at all. I understand the trepidation, but new eyes on an old character can revitalize excitement and attention simply through comparison. So even if new MM is shitty, readers can be pointed back to the good stuff.>They don't need to be reused either. If you have a story to tell, you can make new characters.With that mindset, we never would have gotten Moore’s run to begin with. Again, I don’t have high hopes for MM in 616, but they at least have the opportunity to do something interesting. Possibility begets hope, at least for me.
>>156239141
>>156236705I'm unsure...
>>156239141It's just not worth it. It's highly unlikely that something worthwhile will be done with the character, especially in 616, and even less likely for it it to be something worthwhile AND adhering to Moore's version.>With that mindset, we never would have gotten Moore’s run to begin with.He was willing to write that story with an analog. He came out of it alright with Watchmen.
>>156236705There's a digital one for the early parts.
>>156193941Wait. Does Miracle Man fucks a kid in this? Damn, the writer must be a total pervert.
>>156183107Why is he SO HORNY in the first panel?
>>156193941Is it me or Mr. Miracle Man is seducing a kid in this page?
>>156241882Yes, that's exactly what is happening, but don't be mistaken. Miracle Man is only molesting Dickie because Miracle Woman convinced him Dickie had confessed to her he had an unquenchable sexual desire for Miracle Man, but this was a LIE to get Miracle Man to molest Dickie.
>>156241882>Mr. Miracle ManSo funny.
>>156242008That storyline sounds as disgusting as it is stupid.
>>156243700Exactly. Miracle Man was the most solid evidence we ever received that Alan Moore's work was doomed to be lame and gay. Inevitably boys will be kissing boys, a girl will let an alien impregnate her, and luxury gay space communism will be the only way humanity can be happy.
>>156243836This was penned by Gaiman.
>180+ post MM threadneat
>>156243836>>156243861Sounds like evidence that Gaiman is a sexual predator.
>>156179851He should be name Commander Miracle If we decided to use him.
>>156244635Who's "we"?
>>156243952NTA, but I’d bet money Gaiman is completely innocent of any criminal wrongdoing after reading his statement. Either that or he’s a very good liar, which I doubt since he’s always seemed a bit autistic—not an insult, just what it seems from the outside.
>>156245479How so?
>>156245734By how I said.
>>156229723That's only Silver Age which Buckingham decided to completly redraw for the Marvel version
>>156245423Me & You
>>156179878that's an acceptable choice,although I think Gaiman did a decent job continuing the story, the world does feel very alien in the aftermath compared to how things were before>>156200644as far as I know in the original draft she was supposed to be the villain of this arc. now what her plan was in this final version, who the fuck knows. for now we can only assume that their hyperliberal kingdom got to their head and thought that a kid with a brain stuck in the 40s would be ok with having gay sex with an adult>>156201880multiple times in Moore's arc MM is proven to be quite dumb>>156245479I'm usually pretty neutral to these things until the court speaks, but when I read the accusations when they came out they did smell like supreme bullshit.
>>156240888Ah, okay.
>>156179851Never picked it up.
>>156245761You didn't.
>>156201880He's quite naive throughout the comic, like he still has that 1950s hero mindset, and he doesn't shake that off until the end. Technically, that part of him dies when he kills Bates.
the fact that marvel has to put "the original writer" and they aren't allowed to use Moore name is really fun.
>>156243906That's an arbitrary number.
>>156247141>when I read the accusations when they came out they did smell like supreme bullshit.There is a blog out there that has put forth the theory that the whole thing is a smear campaign done by far right British political organizers. Not sure if I buy it one way or the other (occams razor and all that) but they do draw a lot of interesting connections.
>>156251216I don't know what's true anymore.
>>156252746What does that matter? You're not even real.
